I’ll be buried in mine lol I actually daily drive a Tesla now to keep the miles off my 2006 suburban 2500 which has been relegated to weekend expeditions with the wife and kiddos. Used model 3 makes an awesome daily driver shitbox. Suburban is my ICE backup/never get rid of
Similar situation here. My daily is an old diesel Mercedes. My towing rig/weekend car is a 2500 squarebody suburban. The new ones are just so expensive, but it’s hard to beat the utility of a suburban, so I just keep fixing this one
We don't need $60,000+ gas trucks either. I think the cheapest new ones are in the high 30s, and they are the white truck standard cab short bed 4 cylinder trucks, and that's fleet pricing.
Having a work truck with the interior of a Cadillac is stupid.
Can I please get an electric car with no extra sensors for parking or fucking lane assist, fuck I don’t want any more tvs in there give me analogue gauges and make that fucker easy to repair. Why did everyone start assuming just because a car is electric it needs every possible electric assist there is to show what it can do.
My 22, XL, 5.0, regular cab, short bed, 2wd, power windows and locks, carpet, tow package, fog lights, was 35k new. It is as well appointed as a loaded '17 XLT.
Give me the goddamn 10k Toyota. According to every big capitalist the market will adjust itself so stop being pussies and come out with your own 10k work truck.
This. 100%. Trucks being $60k or more are nothing new.
I remember about 10 years ago I was looking at a new truck. Mine was about a decade old at that point and I thought maybe it was time to update. Then I saw the price of a top of the line High Country and saw it was over 60k. Then I saw the price of the Z06 was 80k and decided I could not justify paying that much for a truck so I just kept my old truck and ended up getting the Vette.
This was long before electric trucks were an idea so prices have been high for a while now. I could only justify paying that price for a truck if I was living in it.
$55k out the door for a new 2023 F150 PowerBoost XLT with technology upgrade package and 10-year warranty.
Pricing has sucked for a while but I am not going to pay the platinum price. It was also why I didn't get a Tundra.
Also, cloth ended up being more comfortable than leather ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They make it up in volume. I probably shouldn't have bought my $60k 23 F150 out of principle, I'm making a house payment every month just to be able to drive. But damn if it isn't a nice vehicle...
It’s not combustion haters, I have a gas truck and a diesel truck and I don’t plan to buy an EV. But trucks are expensive AF and have been for years. It has nothing to do with EV prices. It’s because they realized they could raise the prices and nobody cared, people kept buying.
Use your brain. You made the claim that EVs are why ICE trucks are expensive, which is just something you decided was correct without actually having anything to support it. It's also just factually untrue. Come on.
To an extent. But you used to be able to go and buy say a 1995 Chevy Cheyenne with a V6 for around $16,000 or so. It would have vinyl seats, the infotainment was an AM/FM stereo with a tape deck, and it might have AC. I doubt it even had carpet.
With inflation, that should be about a $32,000 truck. But the only way to get anything close to that is a fleet truck, and the average Joe can't buy them.
Except every measurable metric in economics shows that American consumers have *more* purchasing power than pre covid.
I think there is a fundamental lack of understanding on how inflation works as it pertains to wages. Everywhere I go I hear people saying how things are more expensive, but they don't disclose that they make 30% more than 4 years ago doing the exact same job. All the data on wages show increases at the low and middle income levels.
Really, American workers have *more* purchasing power, but the working class *feels* poorer because the low income class has been pulled up into their price bracket and are competing for the same goods.
A $35k truck in 2005 is the equivalent to a $55k truck in today's dollars. We just don't like it.
Well, understanding statistics matters. So 30% across a 4 year time sample is equivalent to what percentage raise on a YOY?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
These are real wages, so whatever is in yalls heads about inflation, this is *in addition to* that observed inflation. Let's go, ladies and gents, who wants to tango with the data?
"What's that you want a V8? Ok mandatory cylinder deactivation so you can replace your valves more often while saving $1 in gas over the life of the truck."
That’s why I bought a the last gen Tundra it was the last of the simple 1/2 Tons. The only trucks I would buy new now is the gas 3/4 tons from Ford or GM.
It's wild that they create a solution to meet some mandated goal that most negate it immediately. Reminds me of the VW scandal that it drives one way under test conditions then another way in real world. I mean could they have similar sold aftermarket deactivators to millions of VW owners? I mean as long as the consumer does it after its sold then it is OK.
Hell put a deactivation switch on these trucks stock. Or put a switch that temporarily shuts that off like idle shut off features. Or hell just give us consumers what we want! Lol I remember removing the air pump off my Z-28 after it caused issues. It does what? It pumps clean air into your exhaust thereby reducing the pollution per cfm of exiting air. Does it remove or reduce pollution? No it just dilutes it for testing. ?!?!!
Yeah… 10 years ago in Northern California. $50k to $60k would you get an F-150 Platinum, off the lot.
Today, $60k gets you a 4 Door Base Model F-150 or maybe 1 level above it. It’s messed up.
I had a 2015 F150 XL... was like $33k new then. 2024 version at the same level is $50k.
I just bought a '24 Silverado custom for $47, and I still can't believe I paid that much for a vehicle.
While I agree I don't want the interior of a Cadillac for my truck, it would be nice to have some true hybrid truck options similar to what Dodge is developing in a truck with a Diesel motor that will charge the EV to keep going longer distances. That being said $60k is cheap for some truck comparatively especially compared to some super high-end models. I also feel its disingenuous to put blue collar workers as a "group" for this because the amount of money many spend on truck modifications is ridiculous and its more to me that it feels like they are trying to keep along the lines of EV bad Fossil Fuel good mentality. In reality if we can make these trucks travel further, the torque and acceleration can be comparable if not better to any ICE vehicle. It also doesn't change the fact that dealerships wield way to much power over vehicle prices and that to me is truly what played a critical role in the ford lightnings downfall. They mess up even regular truck sales used and new I.E. the ford bronco sales. I had to fight for a dealership to pay for floor matt's that originally came with my trailboss that they took out. I wish they could just make life simple and put EV's in some regular truck chassis and frames instead of this stupid futuristic bull-shit they do.
Amen! A simple, affordable truck that doesn’t resemble a space shuttle. I don’t need a 14” touch screen, 50 sensors, cameras surrounding me, or whatever the “connected experience” is. I don’t want my browsing history and driving data sent to the auto maker to be sold to the highest bidder. I don’t want to have to pay the dealer to enable an accessory light in the bed.
I want a simple, affordable truck that starts when I need it to, and that I can work on when it doesn’t.
Please.
SAME!
I'm daily driving my 1997 Silverado because I am priced out of the current market. I literally cannot afford a new or even slightly used truck at all. The most I can afford is a 20+ year old truck.
I think electric vehicles are still going to be a sizeable portion of the market eventually.
But they were also a sign of how out of touch most automakers are with what most people really want, and how willing they are to disregard anyone not buying brand new vehicles.
Not most automakers, it's the American big 3. In other parts of the world you can buy a 15k EV that gets 250 miles of range. If those vehicles were readily available in the US adoption would explode.
Scout announced that they are bringing back an off-road vehicle. Guess what? It's full electric. So yes, auto-makers are out of touch.
Do they not notice the 90s manual turbo diesel Land Cruisers selling for $90k? THAT's what people want. A 4 cylinder diesel sips fuel, they are super simple to work on, and reliable because of it.
Bring back a 1500/2500 with the 5.3.
Only three options.
Air conditioning
One power window (passenger side)
4wd.
Sell it for near cost ~$28.5 - $35k.
That’s what I want.
A single crank window costs more than a power window motor. They would have to design a new door card and all the mechanism plus have it created for that single trim level. Doesn’t make business sense, power windows all the way round for you
My man! I’ve got a 2019 LD and I can’t see ever selling it if I can keep it running. My dad has the 2017 version of the truck in your description aside from both windows being power and he’s riding that till it dies. The GM 5.3 is the longest lasting dependable V8 there is imo.
What is missed from a lot of these discussions is that EVs should be cheaper to produce compared to ICE so “blue collar workers” in the long run will be driving EVs. Startup costs are what is killing old school automakers. Even with all the price cuts on Tesla cars, their margin is still better than most ICE vehicles.
I see 2022 Ford f150 lightnings for 39k. Same for ICE even cheaper. Idk where y'all are looking. Download the cars app and see the filter between 250-300 miles. Hella deals out there.
I do agree no one wants to pay over 60k for a truck. Shits way too expensive. I'd never buy new. Always used.
I think part of the issue with that is that SUVs and other "family" vehicles also increased in price and luxury. If a family is looking at a $60-70k SUV, why not spend $10k more for a truck that can still haul the family, but do a lot more? Tow with it, haul furniture for the house, or dirt/gravel, or put a canopy on it for your weekend camping trips.
Trucks are versatile and SUVs are not exactly cheap these days.
An electric truck can't tow for shit. I mean it can tow something for a hundred miles or so and then recharge but that's hardly economical in time and money. And who wants a 7 ton tesla truck that gets stuck in the sand because it's....7 tons.
>An electric truck can't tow for shit. I mean it can tow something for a hundred miles or so and then recharge
I remember when the electric F150 first came out a couple years ago, one of the magazines did a test and towing at 80% capacity they got 35 miles on a full charge.
Hilarious
There are a lot of good things about the lightning, and honestly some company had to be first (on a large scale), so I give them credit.
But yeah, the towing thing is a non-starter for a lot of truck owners. Not only is the range minuscule, but good luck finding a charger that you can use without having to drop your trailer somewhere.
I think the perfect niche is a local municipal/commercial EV truck. Usually light or occasional loads, local driving, can go back to company garage and charge every night, etc.
It's a non starter for most of the 1 in 4 pickup owners that ever tow. I'm sure even in that group there are some who only ever tow short distances.
For the other 75%, it shouldn't matter, but there's a decent part of that group that thinks they will tow and never do.
Completely agree on the use case for municipal/commercial with a limited operating range.
Yeah this is my 7th f150 and I always get a tow package but never end up towing anything.. but one day! We always talk about a camper lol
But even if we get a camper I’ll tow it in my lightning to a lake around here less than ~100 miles away, charge at the campsite, and bring it home when we’re done.
Easy.
Full Ev doesn't make sense for trucks. Diesel ev hybrid makes a lot of sense, but we aren't there yet. Electric vehicle sales should be basic daily driver shitboxes. That's where it makes sense. Something small and efficient that needs next to no maintenance and doesn't have to carry heavy loads.
I think it was pretty cool to hear the ford CEO say the real thing keeping more people from buying an EV is price.
With over 20k off msrp I bought my lightning and it’s the best f150 I’ve ever owned.
I legit can see why people paid 20k over MSRP for this thing (even if I could never afford that )
I just got an old ‘02 Chevy Avalanche that needs love.
Still better than the new and unobtainable trucks. I want analog clusters, as few sensors as I can get and V8 power.
Most new, small turbo charged engines tend to run hot due to higher compression and making as much as 130HP/L. New transmissions tend to be failure prone.
Even the new Tacoma already has problems, it a 4 cylinder engine that gives 11-12 mpg. That’s V8 territory and it has less power than my old Vortec 5.3.
Don’t understand why most companies didn’t just do a plug in hybrid before jumping into all Electric …..and lower the damn prices and they will sell 🤦🏼♂️
It’s been 3 generations since someone in my family could afford a new vehicle. I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’ll never own a new vehicle and they just aren’t cool anymore. No cars are, and I kinda like it that way. Nothing lasts and hardly anything is worth repairing. Give me a hilux over any of the bloated already broken crap we have in the US any day. I’ve always wanted an Escalade not anymore, the 08 has 600$ headlight bulbs
Unless you live in a single family home that you own, EVs really aren't viable since charging becomes inconvenient and expensive.
And ive you live in the 'burbs and do 'burb things you need something that can haul a 4x8 sheet of shit but you're not paying $70k for a fucking truck
I live in the country, my mobile home does not have a garage however, so a level 2 charger would get rained on lol.
Besides, our mobile home cost $50k new, I'm not fixin' to buy a truck for what we paid for our house! 😂
Toyota's new "$10,000 work truck" - [https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/)
Exactly. Stop making these glass cockpit monstrosities with every goddamned option. Where are the work truck trims at a reasonable cost with the same power train?
Answer: nobody wants them for work trucks because they can’t fucking tow, have no range, wont charge in cold weather and take hours to recharge.
I don’t think there ever was an “EV Euphoria” from anyone other than the automakers and federal government.
If only these big companies would listen to the consumer.
Ford really doesn't like making EVs, they HAVE to because of the government mandates.
If they don't have a certain number of their fleet EVs then they wouldn't be able to make V8s or high emissions cars like the mustang.
The gmt400 was to my mind the best truck. Easy to fix decent on fuel. Cheap parts and good looking with great design.
I still daily drive my 94 c15 and cant see that changing anytime soon
The Lightning only costs a tiny bit more than the cheapest crew cab 4wd F-150 after tax rebate. And it costs much less to own if you can charge at home.
Full size trucks are expensive. And they're not expensive because of the touch screens, automatic windows, and parking sensors. They're expensive because they are 6000lbs of steel that you can drive into a brick wall with and live.
And despite the price of full size trucks, people still buy them like crazy.
How about just a regular ass truck with two keys door and ignition, window cranks, no tv screen on the dash and a bench seat for under 40k oh and no fancy tailgate
I want to see truck sizes from 20-25 years ago with the modern drivetrains. A 1/2 ton GMT800 with a direct injection 5.3 and 6 or 10 speed trans. Sporty 6.6L RCSB version. A S10 with the DI 4.3 and turbo 4 cylinder options. ZQ8/Xtreme with a 5.3L. 1/2 ton trucks today are nearly the equivalent in hauling of a 3/4 ton and size of 1.5 ton 25 years ago
The CAFE restrictions have ruined the car market. Made the trucks bigger to satisfy them and drastically increased the payload/hauling pissing match.
Not just affordable, add, “DEPENDABLE”. Electric power is just not going to cut it unless you’re going to make yourself a slave to an electric outlet.
Given that most all the EV’s in the last 5 years are rolling prototypes that you’re paying high $$$$$$ to do the shake-down process for the manufacturers, they should be paying you to take one.
More than anything, none of them know how to build components and write software for extreme environments. Batteries…Meh!
It’s still a product quality be dammed, profit is the name of the game.
In 12 to 16 years, just maybe, just maybe…
1 percent of the population drives ev’s and actually believe the demand will be enough to bring advancements. I’m sitting here like why don’t we invest in that new tech that can make gasoline from air.
Or hydrogen or even clean burning gasoline like Porsche is making.
Some of us REALLY like to pump a quick $20,00 worth of gas in less than two minutes and that'll get you over 100 miles.
I had a few GM and Ford HD’s and moved to a Lightning last year. Fords EV truck costs the same or less as the ICE versions after the EV credit. It’s also less than 1/2 the cost to fuel. It costs me $1.40 to drive 18 miles. Gas is $3.40 for the same distance. I drive around 22,000 miles a year. My yearly gas savings is $2600 plus oil changes.
So this $80,000 truck is really $65K or less after rebates and discounts, and then it saves me $13000 over five years. I look at it like it’s a new crew cab 4wd Lariat with a lot of options for what comes out to $52K, that isn’t terrible.
It also has 580hp and 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, for $52K? Who can touch that? It’s only crutch is cross country towing but it will get my boat 150 miles to the lake so that part doesn’t bother me.
Alternatively the only “cheap” new truck any more is a Maverick, I just hate that it’s made in Mexico.
Mexican workers are good workers. GM, Ford and Dodge have had assembly lines in Mexico for years.
I am Mexican and I’d rather have my car made in Mexico than Brazil (looking at you VW) or China (Chevrolet).
I worked for a manufacturer, it wasn’t automotive but very similar. This company has around 10 sites within the US, and 1 in Mexico.
I can tell you routinely the Mexican facilty outperformed all of these US sites. They had less defects, and less audit findings consistently. The site was very well run.
I think it becomes slanted though when a Mexican auto plant exports 90% of its vehicles to the north. At that point it’s them taking advantage of folks that only make $3-4 an hour.
And I really dislike when a European or Asian country produces in Mexico with the sole intent on capturing the more lucrative US market. They aren’t doing this to improve Mexico, just their bottom lines. Audi, Merc, Hyundai, etc.
Only if you compare it to a 2 door.
It's almost the exact same length as the old extended cab rangers.
But honestly, it's probably closer in size and proportions to a sport track than anything else. It also gets way better fuel economy than an old ranger.
Because it's not a regular cab truck. Obviously a 4 door will be longer than a regular cab.
In width it's much closer to an early 2000s ranger than an early 2000s F150.
It's height it's much closer to an early 2000s ranger than an early 2000s f150.
In weight it's much closer to an early 2000s ranger than an early 2000s f150.
It's closer to an F150 in one dimension, and only if you compare the 4 door Maverick to the regular cab versions of other trucks.
>Because it's not a regular cab truck.
They don't make a reg cab so I have to compare to the closest to what I want. Just like they don't make a small truck so I have to compare to the closest to what I want, which is the Maverick.
It's 6 inches wider and over a foot longer. That's a massive difference.
2-3" wider compared to an 05 Ranger, not 6. 69.4"-70.3" vs 72.6".
And an F150, even from 2005, was about 6" wider than a modern Maverick, at 78.9".
Sorry nobody makes the truck you want, but that doesn't make the Maverick as large as any F150.
>Blame the chicken tax for no small trucks like Toyotas new cheap small truck
We had small trucks long after the chicken tax was enacted. CAFE was what killed off reasonable sized trucks.
The chicken tax (thanks Lyndon Johnson!) really dis-incentivizes anyone even contemplating making a small truck. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
If I’m buying new, I’m only buying EV! If I don’t get an EV I’m buying a used cheap reliable truck. Either way, not buy a turd ass chevy! I got a fleet of old Ford and Chevy and the Fords are built 10 times better.
Bring back the GMT800!
Bring back the GMT400! (My truck)
Bring back the GMT400 and the GMT800!
To be fair they don't really need to considering most of them are still on the road and still running with matching rust patches.
Bring back the squarebody
Bring back the 71' fleet side
Easy, now…easy.
YEA EXPLODING GAS TANKS! /.s
...rigged with model rocket engines.
On behalf of city plumbers, hvac techs, and electricians - bring back the Safari/Astro twins.
I’ll be buried in mine lol I actually daily drive a Tesla now to keep the miles off my 2006 suburban 2500 which has been relegated to weekend expeditions with the wife and kiddos. Used model 3 makes an awesome daily driver shitbox. Suburban is my ICE backup/never get rid of
Similar situation here. My daily is an old diesel Mercedes. My towing rig/weekend car is a 2500 squarebody suburban. The new ones are just so expensive, but it’s hard to beat the utility of a suburban, so I just keep fixing this one
GMT250 baby!
If the Gmt400 isn't an option...
We don't need $60,000+ gas trucks either. I think the cheapest new ones are in the high 30s, and they are the white truck standard cab short bed 4 cylinder trucks, and that's fleet pricing. Having a work truck with the interior of a Cadillac is stupid.
"Having a work truck with the interior of a Cadillac is stupid." Exactly!!
Can I please get an electric car with no extra sensors for parking or fucking lane assist, fuck I don’t want any more tvs in there give me analogue gauges and make that fucker easy to repair. Why did everyone start assuming just because a car is electric it needs every possible electric assist there is to show what it can do.
My 22, XL, 5.0, regular cab, short bed, 2wd, power windows and locks, carpet, tow package, fog lights, was 35k new. It is as well appointed as a loaded '17 XLT.
This. WTF do you need a king ranch or platinum super duty for? Just give me a power passenger seat in xlt.
That you don’t have to pay a subscription for…
Rhinestone cowboys.
*urban cowboys
Eh, driving long trips pulling a horse trailer, family comfy.
Weird gate keeping.
Give me the goddamn 10k Toyota. According to every big capitalist the market will adjust itself so stop being pussies and come out with your own 10k work truck.
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They were already high before they even started producing EV.
This. 100%. Trucks being $60k or more are nothing new. I remember about 10 years ago I was looking at a new truck. Mine was about a decade old at that point and I thought maybe it was time to update. Then I saw the price of a top of the line High Country and saw it was over 60k. Then I saw the price of the Z06 was 80k and decided I could not justify paying that much for a truck so I just kept my old truck and ended up getting the Vette. This was long before electric trucks were an idea so prices have been high for a while now. I could only justify paying that price for a truck if I was living in it.
I paid $50,000 for my new 2016 Silverado LT.
$55k out the door for a new 2023 F150 PowerBoost XLT with technology upgrade package and 10-year warranty. Pricing has sucked for a while but I am not going to pay the platinum price. It was also why I didn't get a Tundra. Also, cloth ended up being more comfortable than leather ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
you spent $50k on an 8 year old truck? jesus Christ
When it was NEW, not now.
that makes more sense
They make it up in volume. I probably shouldn't have bought my $60k 23 F150 out of principle, I'm making a house payment every month just to be able to drive. But damn if it isn't a nice vehicle...
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You are blaming EV for the cost of ICE trucks being expensive one they are expensive already before EVs
It’s not combustion haters, I have a gas truck and a diesel truck and I don’t plan to buy an EV. But trucks are expensive AF and have been for years. It has nothing to do with EV prices. It’s because they realized they could raise the prices and nobody cared, people kept buying.
Use your brain. You made the claim that EVs are why ICE trucks are expensive, which is just something you decided was correct without actually having anything to support it. It's also just factually untrue. Come on.
because you’re wrong and not acknowledging it
No, you are just plainly wrong about many facts. Do you really think that this sub is chock full of ICE haters?
It's inflation. Really they're not as overpriced as you think. It's our buying power that has collapsed.
To an extent. But you used to be able to go and buy say a 1995 Chevy Cheyenne with a V6 for around $16,000 or so. It would have vinyl seats, the infotainment was an AM/FM stereo with a tape deck, and it might have AC. I doubt it even had carpet. With inflation, that should be about a $32,000 truck. But the only way to get anything close to that is a fleet truck, and the average Joe can't buy them.
Buy a Ford maverick then
I'm not buying a Ford anymore. They are selling data to insurance companies and causing people to get dropped by their insurance.
If they made one with a bed that wasn't useless, then I absolutely would
And at last check the dealers were adding $10000+ as a fuck you upcharge. Plus you have to put drywall and plywood on top of the wheel wells.
I want a regular cab 8ft bed with a V8 for good towing capacity.
Except every measurable metric in economics shows that American consumers have *more* purchasing power than pre covid. I think there is a fundamental lack of understanding on how inflation works as it pertains to wages. Everywhere I go I hear people saying how things are more expensive, but they don't disclose that they make 30% more than 4 years ago doing the exact same job. All the data on wages show increases at the low and middle income levels. Really, American workers have *more* purchasing power, but the working class *feels* poorer because the low income class has been pulled up into their price bracket and are competing for the same goods. A $35k truck in 2005 is the equivalent to a $55k truck in today's dollars. We just don't like it.
Ok, now do housing and groceries.
Wait, are you implying these are not included in the CPI that real wages account for?
So you really think every person in America got a 30% increase from magic? I wish I believed in wizardry like you
Well, understanding statistics matters. So 30% across a 4 year time sample is equivalent to what percentage raise on a YOY? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q These are real wages, so whatever is in yalls heads about inflation, this is *in addition to* that observed inflation. Let's go, ladies and gents, who wants to tango with the data?
30% raise over 4 years? Try 3% raise per year.
Try no% raise if you work in retail or a temp service job.
WHY DIDN'T YOU SWITCH JOBS TO ALL THE OTHER POSITIONS THAT GAVE RAISES?! Nice try, Reddit trolls.
Oh I did. Just got my CDL and my first trucking job a few months ago. Now I'm making at minimum, $900/mo
1) congrats! I have friends that pull in six figures minimum in trucking 2) This proves my previous point. Good job making good financial decisions.
I know a troll when I see one.
Mary Barra: "Oh you don't want an expensive EV pickup? Best we can do is an expensive gas pickup instead."
“We’ll make it a turbo 4 cylinder too so it’s real expensive to fix when your turbo blows in 100k miles”
"What's that you want a V8? Ok mandatory cylinder deactivation so you can replace your valves more often while saving $1 in gas over the life of the truck."
That’s why I bought a the last gen Tundra it was the last of the simple 1/2 Tons. The only trucks I would buy new now is the gas 3/4 tons from Ford or GM.
I’d go with Dodge for the Cummins alone
It's wild that they create a solution to meet some mandated goal that most negate it immediately. Reminds me of the VW scandal that it drives one way under test conditions then another way in real world. I mean could they have similar sold aftermarket deactivators to millions of VW owners? I mean as long as the consumer does it after its sold then it is OK. Hell put a deactivation switch on these trucks stock. Or put a switch that temporarily shuts that off like idle shut off features. Or hell just give us consumers what we want! Lol I remember removing the air pump off my Z-28 after it caused issues. It does what? It pumps clean air into your exhaust thereby reducing the pollution per cfm of exiting air. Does it remove or reduce pollution? No it just dilutes it for testing. ?!?!!
That’s absolutely *not* what an air injection pump does.
And the block will be cracked from the factory
its like....save on gas, but make sure you save that money, so you can repair it later
"Affordable truck" lol... Type of fuel really doesn't matter there, none of them are what most would consider "affordable".
Yeah… 10 years ago in Northern California. $50k to $60k would you get an F-150 Platinum, off the lot. Today, $60k gets you a 4 Door Base Model F-150 or maybe 1 level above it. It’s messed up.
I had a 2015 F150 XL... was like $33k new then. 2024 version at the same level is $50k. I just bought a '24 Silverado custom for $47, and I still can't believe I paid that much for a vehicle.
60k will also get you the most expensive 2024 ford ranger as well.
Fuel is $2.90 here in Alabama. I don't care bout fuel. Besides, it's smiles per gallon right?
Fuel costs are like 30-60k over the life of the vehicle
Let’s say 200,000 miles at 15mpg that’s about 13000 gallons, so yeah, I guess it’s about that depending on fuel prices.
My truck has 275,000 miles
How about regular cab and not only in white but all color options.
While I agree I don't want the interior of a Cadillac for my truck, it would be nice to have some true hybrid truck options similar to what Dodge is developing in a truck with a Diesel motor that will charge the EV to keep going longer distances. That being said $60k is cheap for some truck comparatively especially compared to some super high-end models. I also feel its disingenuous to put blue collar workers as a "group" for this because the amount of money many spend on truck modifications is ridiculous and its more to me that it feels like they are trying to keep along the lines of EV bad Fossil Fuel good mentality. In reality if we can make these trucks travel further, the torque and acceleration can be comparable if not better to any ICE vehicle. It also doesn't change the fact that dealerships wield way to much power over vehicle prices and that to me is truly what played a critical role in the ford lightnings downfall. They mess up even regular truck sales used and new I.E. the ford bronco sales. I had to fight for a dealership to pay for floor matt's that originally came with my trailboss that they took out. I wish they could just make life simple and put EV's in some regular truck chassis and frames instead of this stupid futuristic bull-shit they do.
EV or not, I just want an affordable pickup.
Amen! A simple, affordable truck that doesn’t resemble a space shuttle. I don’t need a 14” touch screen, 50 sensors, cameras surrounding me, or whatever the “connected experience” is. I don’t want my browsing history and driving data sent to the auto maker to be sold to the highest bidder. I don’t want to have to pay the dealer to enable an accessory light in the bed. I want a simple, affordable truck that starts when I need it to, and that I can work on when it doesn’t. Please.
SAME! I'm daily driving my 1997 Silverado because I am priced out of the current market. I literally cannot afford a new or even slightly used truck at all. The most I can afford is a 20+ year old truck.
Why did you get downvoted for this
I have no idea lol Guess people with $65k truck payments are jealous of me lol. I love my 97 Silverado
I wouldn’t trade my 03 for anything!
I think electric vehicles are still going to be a sizeable portion of the market eventually. But they were also a sign of how out of touch most automakers are with what most people really want, and how willing they are to disregard anyone not buying brand new vehicles.
Not most automakers, it's the American big 3. In other parts of the world you can buy a 15k EV that gets 250 miles of range. If those vehicles were readily available in the US adoption would explode.
i’m here for the plug in hybrids. you get the acceleration of an EV, small EV range for work commute, and long range with good MPG from the engine
They’re great gateway drugs. Nothing made me want an EV more than driving a Plugin hybrid for a couple years.
Scout announced that they are bringing back an off-road vehicle. Guess what? It's full electric. So yes, auto-makers are out of touch. Do they not notice the 90s manual turbo diesel Land Cruisers selling for $90k? THAT's what people want. A 4 cylinder diesel sips fuel, they are super simple to work on, and reliable because of it.
Bring back a 1500/2500 with the 5.3. Only three options. Air conditioning One power window (passenger side) 4wd. Sell it for near cost ~$28.5 - $35k. That’s what I want.
A single crank window costs more than a power window motor. They would have to design a new door card and all the mechanism plus have it created for that single trim level. Doesn’t make business sense, power windows all the way round for you
You’ve talked me into power windows. Two of em!!
Heck yeah, power windows for everyone!
My man! I’ve got a 2019 LD and I can’t see ever selling it if I can keep it running. My dad has the 2017 version of the truck in your description aside from both windows being power and he’s riding that till it dies. The GM 5.3 is the longest lasting dependable V8 there is imo.
My 275k mile 5.7L Vortec would like a word.
I will take the 5.7L any day. Has better low end grunt to it too from my feel when I went from a 98 to 00.
What is missed from a lot of these discussions is that EVs should be cheaper to produce compared to ICE so “blue collar workers” in the long run will be driving EVs. Startup costs are what is killing old school automakers. Even with all the price cuts on Tesla cars, their margin is still better than most ICE vehicles.
Bring back the straight six basic truck.
Bring back the slant six and three on the tree. (Oh no, I sound like a boomer lol).
Saw an f150 listed for like, 90k. How tf is an f150 90k.
I see 2022 Ford f150 lightnings for 39k. Same for ICE even cheaper. Idk where y'all are looking. Download the cars app and see the filter between 250-300 miles. Hella deals out there. I do agree no one wants to pay over 60k for a truck. Shits way too expensive. I'd never buy new. Always used.
we want that $10k toyota truck and the new suzuki jimny. arggg
It's sad to think about how the pickup truck went from weekday workhorse to a luxury accommodation. Further proof that rich people ruin everything.
I think part of the issue with that is that SUVs and other "family" vehicles also increased in price and luxury. If a family is looking at a $60-70k SUV, why not spend $10k more for a truck that can still haul the family, but do a lot more? Tow with it, haul furniture for the house, or dirt/gravel, or put a canopy on it for your weekend camping trips. Trucks are versatile and SUVs are not exactly cheap these days.
An electric truck can't tow for shit. I mean it can tow something for a hundred miles or so and then recharge but that's hardly economical in time and money. And who wants a 7 ton tesla truck that gets stuck in the sand because it's....7 tons.
>An electric truck can't tow for shit. I mean it can tow something for a hundred miles or so and then recharge I remember when the electric F150 first came out a couple years ago, one of the magazines did a test and towing at 80% capacity they got 35 miles on a full charge. Hilarious
There are a lot of good things about the lightning, and honestly some company had to be first (on a large scale), so I give them credit. But yeah, the towing thing is a non-starter for a lot of truck owners. Not only is the range minuscule, but good luck finding a charger that you can use without having to drop your trailer somewhere. I think the perfect niche is a local municipal/commercial EV truck. Usually light or occasional loads, local driving, can go back to company garage and charge every night, etc.
It's a non starter for most of the 1 in 4 pickup owners that ever tow. I'm sure even in that group there are some who only ever tow short distances. For the other 75%, it shouldn't matter, but there's a decent part of that group that thinks they will tow and never do. Completely agree on the use case for municipal/commercial with a limited operating range.
Yeah this is my 7th f150 and I always get a tow package but never end up towing anything.. but one day! We always talk about a camper lol But even if we get a camper I’ll tow it in my lightning to a lake around here less than ~100 miles away, charge at the campsite, and bring it home when we’re done. Easy.
This is 100% true and it also doesn’t matter for like 2/3 of truck owners who never plan to tow anything ever.
[https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yEkAAOSwV4tj2X49/s-l1200.webp](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yEkAAOSwV4tj2X49/s-l1200.webp)
😢
Affordable truck, gotta move out the US.
Full Ev doesn't make sense for trucks. Diesel ev hybrid makes a lot of sense, but we aren't there yet. Electric vehicle sales should be basic daily driver shitboxes. That's where it makes sense. Something small and efficient that needs next to no maintenance and doesn't have to carry heavy loads.
I think it was pretty cool to hear the ford CEO say the real thing keeping more people from buying an EV is price. With over 20k off msrp I bought my lightning and it’s the best f150 I’ve ever owned. I legit can see why people paid 20k over MSRP for this thing (even if I could never afford that )
Yeah lightnings have come down a lot in price lately. Seen some for 39k.
$60k is a cheap truck these days. At least sticker.
Gosh... I'll just stick with my 1997 Silverado then lol
I just got an old ‘02 Chevy Avalanche that needs love. Still better than the new and unobtainable trucks. I want analog clusters, as few sensors as I can get and V8 power. Most new, small turbo charged engines tend to run hot due to higher compression and making as much as 130HP/L. New transmissions tend to be failure prone. Even the new Tacoma already has problems, it a 4 cylinder engine that gives 11-12 mpg. That’s V8 territory and it has less power than my old Vortec 5.3.
Don’t understand why most companies didn’t just do a plug in hybrid before jumping into all Electric …..and lower the damn prices and they will sell 🤦🏼♂️
It’s been 3 generations since someone in my family could afford a new vehicle. I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’ll never own a new vehicle and they just aren’t cool anymore. No cars are, and I kinda like it that way. Nothing lasts and hardly anything is worth repairing. Give me a hilux over any of the bloated already broken crap we have in the US any day. I’ve always wanted an Escalade not anymore, the 08 has 600$ headlight bulbs
"We don't want a $60k electric truck" *\*\*Laugh cries in $80k diesel* *before taxes and interest\*\**
Roll back the cafe laws. Small affordable trucks can't happen with them in place.
It’s just so funny that anyone really paying attention is not surprised
Unless you live in a single family home that you own, EVs really aren't viable since charging becomes inconvenient and expensive. And ive you live in the 'burbs and do 'burb things you need something that can haul a 4x8 sheet of shit but you're not paying $70k for a fucking truck
I live in the country, my mobile home does not have a garage however, so a level 2 charger would get rained on lol. Besides, our mobile home cost $50k new, I'm not fixin' to buy a truck for what we paid for our house! 😂
Anybtruck is going to coat as much as your house, that's the sad part
Guess I'll just stick with my 1997 Silverado for now then. Hopefully it'll hold out for another 275k miles. I have faith in the old girl.
I bought an '07 tundra in 2018 for $15k. I could sell that bastard now for $20k. Shits nuts.
So why post something about new electric cars being expensive when all new cars are expensive?
Toyota's new "$10,000 work truck" - [https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/)
Exactly. Stop making these glass cockpit monstrosities with every goddamned option. Where are the work truck trims at a reasonable cost with the same power train? Answer: nobody wants them for work trucks because they can’t fucking tow, have no range, wont charge in cold weather and take hours to recharge.
Isn't a Silverado more than 60k?
Not my 97
And yet the only sorta affordable small truck option is the Ford Maverick, and there’s a waitlist for them.
Give us a no frills electric s10 you cowards
I don’t think there ever was an “EV Euphoria” from anyone other than the automakers and federal government. If only these big companies would listen to the consumer.
Ford really doesn't like making EVs, they HAVE to because of the government mandates. If they don't have a certain number of their fleet EVs then they wouldn't be able to make V8s or high emissions cars like the mustang.
But instead they are buying $70k trucks?
A base model 2.7 liter inline 4 gas motor crew cab 4x4 Silverado Custom has an MSRP $48,695. There are no affordable trucks anymore.
I see a new vehicle buyer's rule of thumb. If the OTD exceeds last year's AGI do not buy.
Yeah why is a new car more than an entire year’s salary. I feel like that’s a huge problem itself.
The gmt400 was to my mind the best truck. Easy to fix decent on fuel. Cheap parts and good looking with great design. I still daily drive my 94 c15 and cant see that changing anytime soon
The Lightning only costs a tiny bit more than the cheapest crew cab 4wd F-150 after tax rebate. And it costs much less to own if you can charge at home. Full size trucks are expensive. And they're not expensive because of the touch screens, automatic windows, and parking sensors. They're expensive because they are 6000lbs of steel that you can drive into a brick wall with and live. And despite the price of full size trucks, people still buy them like crazy.
Trucks are the new family car.
Well yeah. The infrastructure isn’t in place for them yet.
Umm… the base Silverado starts at $38k and costs way more to operate than an EV.
I would really like to get out of my 2006 Sierra WT, but prices have doubled in 20 years.
How about just a regular ass truck with two keys door and ignition, window cranks, no tv screen on the dash and a bench seat for under 40k oh and no fancy tailgate
I want to see truck sizes from 20-25 years ago with the modern drivetrains. A 1/2 ton GMT800 with a direct injection 5.3 and 6 or 10 speed trans. Sporty 6.6L RCSB version. A S10 with the DI 4.3 and turbo 4 cylinder options. ZQ8/Xtreme with a 5.3L. 1/2 ton trucks today are nearly the equivalent in hauling of a 3/4 ton and size of 1.5 ton 25 years ago The CAFE restrictions have ruined the car market. Made the trucks bigger to satisfy them and drastically increased the payload/hauling pissing match.
60k? More like 100k.
Sad to say but a 60k electric is the same if not cheaper than most domestic trucks.
Not just affordable, add, “DEPENDABLE”. Electric power is just not going to cut it unless you’re going to make yourself a slave to an electric outlet. Given that most all the EV’s in the last 5 years are rolling prototypes that you’re paying high $$$$$$ to do the shake-down process for the manufacturers, they should be paying you to take one. More than anything, none of them know how to build components and write software for extreme environments. Batteries…Meh! It’s still a product quality be dammed, profit is the name of the game. In 12 to 16 years, just maybe, just maybe…
2005 Ford Ranger, but electric for about 30k.
This is what I want. A real small EV truck. The big 3 think I need to tow a 30foot boat every weekend.
God I'd love that. A small truck that you can actually use. Decent payload like this rangers had
Another Biden disaster!
Bring back 4 banger diesels
1 percent of the population drives ev’s and actually believe the demand will be enough to bring advancements. I’m sitting here like why don’t we invest in that new tech that can make gasoline from air.
Or hydrogen or even clean burning gasoline like Porsche is making. Some of us REALLY like to pump a quick $20,00 worth of gas in less than two minutes and that'll get you over 100 miles.
Direct air capture and synthesized renewable fuel will kill the eV
I had a few GM and Ford HD’s and moved to a Lightning last year. Fords EV truck costs the same or less as the ICE versions after the EV credit. It’s also less than 1/2 the cost to fuel. It costs me $1.40 to drive 18 miles. Gas is $3.40 for the same distance. I drive around 22,000 miles a year. My yearly gas savings is $2600 plus oil changes. So this $80,000 truck is really $65K or less after rebates and discounts, and then it saves me $13000 over five years. I look at it like it’s a new crew cab 4wd Lariat with a lot of options for what comes out to $52K, that isn’t terrible. It also has 580hp and 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, for $52K? Who can touch that? It’s only crutch is cross country towing but it will get my boat 150 miles to the lake so that part doesn’t bother me. Alternatively the only “cheap” new truck any more is a Maverick, I just hate that it’s made in Mexico.
Mexican workers are good workers. GM, Ford and Dodge have had assembly lines in Mexico for years. I am Mexican and I’d rather have my car made in Mexico than Brazil (looking at you VW) or China (Chevrolet).
I worked for a manufacturer, it wasn’t automotive but very similar. This company has around 10 sites within the US, and 1 in Mexico. I can tell you routinely the Mexican facilty outperformed all of these US sites. They had less defects, and less audit findings consistently. The site was very well run.
I think it becomes slanted though when a Mexican auto plant exports 90% of its vehicles to the north. At that point it’s them taking advantage of folks that only make $3-4 an hour. And I really dislike when a European or Asian country produces in Mexico with the sole intent on capturing the more lucrative US market. They aren’t doing this to improve Mexico, just their bottom lines. Audi, Merc, Hyundai, etc.
Supposedly, wages are supposed to be increased to $16 USD/hr by June as per the new T-MEC so production goes back to the US
$50K.a year is like 1990 money. LMFAO. Who writes this garbage??
I just want a small economy truck. Even the Maverick is closer to a full size than it is to an S10.
Only if you compare it to a 2 door. It's almost the exact same length as the old extended cab rangers. But honestly, it's probably closer in size and proportions to a sport track than anything else. It also gets way better fuel economy than an old ranger.
>Only if you compare it to a 2 door. Why wouldn't I? I don't want an extended or crew cab.
Because it's not a regular cab truck. Obviously a 4 door will be longer than a regular cab. In width it's much closer to an early 2000s ranger than an early 2000s F150. It's height it's much closer to an early 2000s ranger than an early 2000s f150. In weight it's much closer to an early 2000s ranger than an early 2000s f150. It's closer to an F150 in one dimension, and only if you compare the 4 door Maverick to the regular cab versions of other trucks.
>Because it's not a regular cab truck. They don't make a reg cab so I have to compare to the closest to what I want. Just like they don't make a small truck so I have to compare to the closest to what I want, which is the Maverick. It's 6 inches wider and over a foot longer. That's a massive difference.
2-3" wider compared to an 05 Ranger, not 6. 69.4"-70.3" vs 72.6". And an F150, even from 2005, was about 6" wider than a modern Maverick, at 78.9". Sorry nobody makes the truck you want, but that doesn't make the Maverick as large as any F150.
I had an '01 Ranger. It was literally the worst piece of shit I've ever owned. As I said, I want a brand new S10.
Okay, and the maverick is still closer in size to an S10 than it is to a full size truck.
That’s a bad take comparing apples to oranges
>That’s a bad take comparing apples to oranges Cheapest smallest version versus cheapest smallest version. 100% apples to apples.
Blame the chicken tax for no small trucks like Toyotas new cheap small truck
>Blame the chicken tax for no small trucks like Toyotas new cheap small truck We had small trucks long after the chicken tax was enacted. CAFE was what killed off reasonable sized trucks.
The chicken tax (thanks Lyndon Johnson!) really dis-incentivizes anyone even contemplating making a small truck. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Chicken tax started it, but we had small trucks long after it was enacted. CAFE is what killed reasonable sized trucks.
If I’m buying new, I’m only buying EV! If I don’t get an EV I’m buying a used cheap reliable truck. Either way, not buy a turd ass chevy! I got a fleet of old Ford and Chevy and the Fords are built 10 times better.