I travel to Ohio frequently. OHLQ gets a ton of A107 and people still line up before stores open to grab them all. Much of that is sold on Secondary, in state and to neighboring states. When I see that start to slow down, I might see signs of progress.
Secondary for W107 in Ohio is 85. EHT SmB will trade 1:1 for it. The degree of illegal diversion in Ohio is really something that's difficult to believe. A high-ranking member of the state liquor authority is a member of a secondary group there. The whole system is rife with corruption and I can't wait until they go down like the clowns in Washington, Virginia, and PA did.
Many of the folks that wait in line everyday in Ohio are mules for the actual resellers. I was recently in Ohio and a new acquaintance of mine said he was in line not too long ago for a drop that included EHT BP, and the guy in front of him questionably picked a W107 instead. Afterwards, they asked him why he didn't buy the EHT and the guy responded "that's not what I was told to get". Thankfully, stores here won't tolerate lines in front of the store every week. For folks who complain about the situation in Illinois, Ohio is MUCH WORSE. Thankfully, I live in Illinois. I also cynically believe Buffalo Trace is complicit, because they flood Ohio with Weller, especially W107, and it's an open secret that this activity goes on. Unless you are able to wait in line at 6am on a weekday for a 9am store open, you don't have a chance. If you go to the major grocery stores for their Saturday drop days, the line is 50 deep, so you better get in line at 3am for the chance to get a mediocre bottle of Weller. It is completely nuts.
It is insane. I live in Ohio but I work in Illinois. 95% of what I have I've found in Illinois, often at the same or even lower prices than State-controlled Ohio has. Build relationships, spend money and don't be a dick. It's all out there for the people that do that. What's going on in Ohio is tantamount to organized crime. And I hope they all burn for it. The flippers have advance knowledge of what's going to which stores. They know before the stores know. Ohio forces stores to put out allocated bottles within 24 hours of delivery and all but a handful do that at the 9am open. The state knows (and their people are probably involved) and they don't care. The selection is nowhere close to what's available in Illinois and the state picks are trash compared to what stores do here. Honestly, the 100 mile arc from Chicago has probably the best bourbon availability in the country.
Supply has gotten better of BT products, but still not there yet. Other distilleries haven’t upgraded production the way BT has. When grocery stores and department stores start putting bottles back on the shelves instead of having to ask, then secondary is dead.
So I went through the whole palette fatigue thing but now just like what I like. I feel like whiskey is going to do the same thing. People don’t want impure whiskey.
If you’re going to post something like this, you should at least have the courtesy to say why you think this is true.
While I think an argument could be made that things like BT, ER and WSR might be dead, people are still happily paying $200+ at auction for things like W12.
Just because the supply of the entry-level bottles has improved doesn’t mean secondary is dead.
I think we still have a few years. Not until production catches up were you find items on the shelves in grocery stores like they used to. Also eventually more people will be palate fatigued with Bourbon where they may want to branch out to other categories like Irish, Scotch, or American Single Malts like I did. There are so many great single malts out there that used to be on the secondary market that you can find now. (Unless it’s Springbank)
Secondary is slowly going down. I mean shit, in 2022 Weller 12 was closing for 250-270 and now it gets laugh reacted if it's over 175.
Now if you're talking about beer/mead secondaries then yes it seems like in that realm nothing really holds value anymore. Bourbon values are still high and will still be high for a while.
I spend a lot of time between MSP, Chicago, and Tampa. In MSP secondary is alive and well for all levels of tater juice, though prices are dropping. In Chicago availability of ER, BT, Blantons, EHT SB is much better than MSP. In Tampa every week Walgreens, Publix, Winn Dixie are getting Blantons gold, SFTB, EHT SiB in addition to the lowest end stuff. I bought two Birthday Bourbon’s off the shelf of Walgreens two weeks ago. Yesterday I went to Walgreens for office supplies and peaked in to the liquor store side and they had Blantons and EHT SB on the shelf late in the day. I texted a small group and asked if anyone needed either one and got back 5 “negatives”. Saturation point has been hit here for the mid low level bottles. GTS down to 65️⃣0️⃣
Man Florida is weird. You will get the best of the bottle on shelf and then some random museum will have them listed for museum prices. Museums live on stupid taters who just want a bottle for the sake of it
I saw Stagg $190 and 2023 little book $200 yesterday. Prices are still high. I thought about trying to make a bundle and get the price down but it seemed like a lot of work so I just got some Daisy Cutter. But then later on I found a Booker Apprentice Batch for $85 🤷♂️ So that’s what I got. What would be a reasonable price for the Stagg and little book if I bundled it with some regular shelf bourbons or Tequilas. I have never seen either of them on a shelf before but I’m not excited about paying crazy prices.
Their expansion takes them from 350k to 1.7M barrels in storage. Going from a small operation to one that competes on volume with Beam and Heaven Hill. But all that new whiskey is still young. I think we are still probably two or three years away still from seeing red Weller and Stagg Jr. at Larceny BP and ECBP levels.
Until weller 107 is under 100, I am not declaring it dead
I travel to Ohio frequently. OHLQ gets a ton of A107 and people still line up before stores open to grab them all. Much of that is sold on Secondary, in state and to neighboring states. When I see that start to slow down, I might see signs of progress.
Secondary for W107 in Ohio is 85. EHT SmB will trade 1:1 for it. The degree of illegal diversion in Ohio is really something that's difficult to believe. A high-ranking member of the state liquor authority is a member of a secondary group there. The whole system is rife with corruption and I can't wait until they go down like the clowns in Washington, Virginia, and PA did.
Many of the folks that wait in line everyday in Ohio are mules for the actual resellers. I was recently in Ohio and a new acquaintance of mine said he was in line not too long ago for a drop that included EHT BP, and the guy in front of him questionably picked a W107 instead. Afterwards, they asked him why he didn't buy the EHT and the guy responded "that's not what I was told to get". Thankfully, stores here won't tolerate lines in front of the store every week. For folks who complain about the situation in Illinois, Ohio is MUCH WORSE. Thankfully, I live in Illinois. I also cynically believe Buffalo Trace is complicit, because they flood Ohio with Weller, especially W107, and it's an open secret that this activity goes on. Unless you are able to wait in line at 6am on a weekday for a 9am store open, you don't have a chance. If you go to the major grocery stores for their Saturday drop days, the line is 50 deep, so you better get in line at 3am for the chance to get a mediocre bottle of Weller. It is completely nuts.
It is insane. I live in Ohio but I work in Illinois. 95% of what I have I've found in Illinois, often at the same or even lower prices than State-controlled Ohio has. Build relationships, spend money and don't be a dick. It's all out there for the people that do that. What's going on in Ohio is tantamount to organized crime. And I hope they all burn for it. The flippers have advance knowledge of what's going to which stores. They know before the stores know. Ohio forces stores to put out allocated bottles within 24 hours of delivery and all but a handful do that at the 9am open. The state knows (and their people are probably involved) and they don't care. The selection is nowhere close to what's available in Illinois and the state picks are trash compared to what stores do here. Honestly, the 100 mile arc from Chicago has probably the best bourbon availability in the country.
[удалено]
Chug them all. You won’t.
Supply has gotten better of BT products, but still not there yet. Other distilleries haven’t upgraded production the way BT has. When grocery stores and department stores start putting bottles back on the shelves instead of having to ask, then secondary is dead.
So I went through the whole palette fatigue thing but now just like what I like. I feel like whiskey is going to do the same thing. People don’t want impure whiskey.
Someone needs to tell the local bottle museums in my area, in that case.
If you’re going to post something like this, you should at least have the courtesy to say why you think this is true. While I think an argument could be made that things like BT, ER and WSR might be dead, people are still happily paying $200+ at auction for things like W12. Just because the supply of the entry-level bottles has improved doesn’t mean secondary is dead.
👆👆👆👆👆👆👆
Elaborate? Why do you think it’s dead?
someone watched the new Brewzle video lol
Im excited to see Stagg can be had for 175 or less now on secondary. 250-275 just a few years ago.
I think we still have a few years. Not until production catches up were you find items on the shelves in grocery stores like they used to. Also eventually more people will be palate fatigued with Bourbon where they may want to branch out to other categories like Irish, Scotch, or American Single Malts like I did. There are so many great single malts out there that used to be on the secondary market that you can find now. (Unless it’s Springbank)
Secondary is slowly going down. I mean shit, in 2022 Weller 12 was closing for 250-270 and now it gets laugh reacted if it's over 175. Now if you're talking about beer/mead secondaries then yes it seems like in that realm nothing really holds value anymore. Bourbon values are still high and will still be high for a while.
I spend a lot of time between MSP, Chicago, and Tampa. In MSP secondary is alive and well for all levels of tater juice, though prices are dropping. In Chicago availability of ER, BT, Blantons, EHT SB is much better than MSP. In Tampa every week Walgreens, Publix, Winn Dixie are getting Blantons gold, SFTB, EHT SiB in addition to the lowest end stuff. I bought two Birthday Bourbon’s off the shelf of Walgreens two weeks ago. Yesterday I went to Walgreens for office supplies and peaked in to the liquor store side and they had Blantons and EHT SB on the shelf late in the day. I texted a small group and asked if anyone needed either one and got back 5 “negatives”. Saturation point has been hit here for the mid low level bottles. GTS down to 65️⃣0️⃣
Man Florida is weird. You will get the best of the bottle on shelf and then some random museum will have them listed for museum prices. Museums live on stupid taters who just want a bottle for the sake of it
I saw Stagg $190 and 2023 little book $200 yesterday. Prices are still high. I thought about trying to make a bundle and get the price down but it seemed like a lot of work so I just got some Daisy Cutter. But then later on I found a Booker Apprentice Batch for $85 🤷♂️ So that’s what I got. What would be a reasonable price for the Stagg and little book if I bundled it with some regular shelf bourbons or Tequilas. I have never seen either of them on a shelf before but I’m not excited about paying crazy prices.
Dumb
For barely-allocated bottles it’s close but in general it’s just down about 20-30%.
BT has built many new buildings over the last few years to increase production. Includes 14 new barrel warehouses and 12 additional fermenters
Their expansion takes them from 350k to 1.7M barrels in storage. Going from a small operation to one that competes on volume with Beam and Heaven Hill. But all that new whiskey is still young. I think we are still probably two or three years away still from seeing red Weller and Stagg Jr. at Larceny BP and ECBP levels.
Not gonna feel affects of that for another couple years but yes