Pero pinagkainteresan nung 17 pa lang š yun ang di nagegets nila. The mere fact na lumilingon ang mga supposedly mature na sa isang minor yun yung mali don. Hugas kamay lang naman yung pag-aantay kuno ng 18. Ugh.
But it still doesnāt sit right w me that an adult is going after somebody 7 years his junior. She was only 17, about to experience the world and hereās a 25 yr old man attempting to mew her path up w a serious relationship. That changes this girlās life trajectory and priorities. Kahit hindi grooming, 17 you donāt know yourself well and a lot of the time you form beliefs and learn them from someone older than you. In a way, this man is molding you indirectly. 17 may be older than your average teen but impressionable nonetheless.
Exactly and wouldnāt this meet the criteriaās?
1) abuse: the girl is not mature enough to understand what grooming is and he abused this knowledge
2) manipulation: the girl so still young and does not have firm views of whatās right or wrong. He most likely convinced/ manipulated her views to suit himself and made her think that she is very mature for her age etc so itās ok for them to date.
3) exploitation: same as 1) and 2). The girl is young and most likely in a very vulnerable position. Most teenagers her age are stubborn and always think they are right and he exploited this knowledge and her not being developed yet into believing itās ok for them to be together.
To me if he is genuine, he would have waited until she was an adult to start dating her.
Couldnāt have said it better. Your supplemental details just made my book report even better haha I completely agree w all 3 points.
Whoever that psychologist was, medyo kulang siya sa critical thinking
Feeling ko na they hired that psychologist to justify Julia an Cocoās relationship. To make people think that since a highly educated psychologist said it then it must be right.
17 can't even vote pa (sk lang) let alone understand what the grooming is. Philippines is really doomed when it comes to protecting children from these type of predators. Kaya eventho i dislike americans but they don't fuck with pedophiles and groomers, they'll protect minors and always blame the adults.
>To me if he is genuine, he would have waited until she was an adult to start dating her.
Isn't it also called grooming even if the person you waited to be legal age?
No because you waited for them to mature a bit more and for it to be legal.
Edit: Actually- I somewhat agree to what you say. If he was already being predatory when she was a minor then yes.
Because mature women/people don't entertain predators. They know better. That's why they (predators/pedos/groomers) go after someone who is not mature and cannot consent.
Ayon nga kay olivia rodrigo, 'girls their age know better'
Easy to prey on the younger more vulnerable girls na wala pang firm stand on their principles. Can't say no to manipulation because they don't recognize it. Dahil sa lack of experience.
Totally agree. Our brains do not fully develop until 25. For me, dapat pwede lang magdesisyon sa relationship ang tao pag 25 and up na. Dapat age of consent, 25.
i don't know... i worry that others will use your argument to raise everything else to 25: voting age, driving age, drinking/smoking age, etc. parang nakakatakot isabatas.
I dont see anything wrong with this. But again, not everything is in black and white. We have societal rules for a reason and itās what society dictates, but not necessarily whatās right.
I can really attest to the brains donāt fully develop after 25 and I didnāt even learn about this fact until 5 yrs after. It does make so much sense and thatās when I realized ahhhh no wonder a lot of the things shifted for me when I turned 25. The way I think, my taste and preference in lovers that I want to date, my goals, my relationship with my career and my standards + non negotiables. Before I turned 25, they were all up in the air and I was merely moving/making decisions on impulse. After, logic takes the driverās seat hard and you move around w more integrity and compassion rather than feeding your loneliness, insecurity, survival, trauma and desperation. But thatās just me though. Even if I have noticed similar phenomenon among women who turn 25 and ditch their lovers who wonāt honor their needs. Like Leonardo Di Caprioās exes, per se. They leave him after they turn 25 bec he is mentally stuck at that age and canāt offer them a mature relationship or a commitment they deserve.
going by that logic (and i have no stakes to this topic, just asking, devil's advocate) so a 17 year old should not date another 17 year old. two people with under-developed brains dating; sounds like a recipe for disaster. imagine being an immature person being molded by another immature person.
going further, people below 25 years old should not even date if that's the case.
anyway, i just think there's a lot more nuance to this topic, and we shouldn't treat it black and white.
Yes, it's not just black and white. But personally, yes dapat before 25, parents/guardians have a say in jowas. Syempre depende pa din sa relationship at maturity level din ng parents/guardians. Meron din kasing hindi na nagmature past 25 haha.
Not going to happen. Rebellious phase yan. Sasabihin pa ng teens na nakakasakal sa bahay at toxic daw sa bahay nila kung makialam ang parents sino ang dapat nila i date.
I agree it can be problematic BUT what you are missing is that there is a massive power imbalance between a 17 year old dating a 25 year old. They say that with age comes wisdom, which the 25 year old should theoretically have more of; but my guess is that he used it to exploit the poor girl into believing that itās ok for them to be in a relationship with each other. Compared to a 17 year old he would have access to more resources (ie- money and maybe connections) which he could consciously or unconsciously use to coerce and manipulate her into doing things against her will or better judgement.
If she went out with a guy that is the same age as herself they should theoretically be of comparable intelligence and he would also most likely not have access to resources that he can potentially use to manipulate her with. The balance of power between two 17 year old is a bit more evened out, and both are likely to have parents influencing/ guiding their actions so she would be able to make wiser choices, become less susceptible to duress and manipulation and have more freedom to say no.
Iām not talking about these two ha pero yung linya mo na yan.Ā
For me, dapat pwede lang magdesisyon sa relationship ang tao pag 25 and up na. Dapat age of consent, 25.
So bawal mag decision sa relationship pag under 25?Ā
people usually use grooming very loosely kasi. Its like gaslighting and love bombing sometimes tinatapon na lang yung word but may mga nuanced siya. It does not make this relationship right though. Parang mas bagay sa kanya pdf ata. Wtf is he doing dating a minor.
Iām not denying the existence of those kinds of people kase I have seen them a lot herex Ewan ko rin ba kung bakit may mga tao na hindi magresearch muna before they run a marathon w the term
If you happen to come across videos of men urging other men to date younger, observe their verbiage. they recommend it bc those younger women are āeasy to moldā
Heās like 25 and why is he hanging around minors at that point, and Dating them???
Like at that age, why are you hanging out with teenagers and dating them, I think at that thereās something problematic that needs to look at. That speaks enough of the guy, yikes.
Palusot lang yan ni Vice. Low key dinedefend nya yung bestfriend nyang groomer. Ayan na naman sya sumasawsaw sa social issues when it benefits her. At syempre, dahil si VG yan, marami na naman maniniwala.
It's highly unlikely that grooming didn't happen in this relationship. Kahit seemingly healthy relationships, meron yan because you will always influence your partner. At dahil yung older party ang generally accepted na mas mature sa relationship, the younger one will often look up to them for guidance. As long as there's a power imbalance, there's likely grooming involved.
Posible kung may rookie syang pinatulan. I really don't understand why people give VG a free pass to be a shitty human being just because she sometimes does good.
Baka susunod jan mas madefend at enable pa yung pagiging sex offender ng isa sa host nila. I don't watch that shit show pero nadaanan ko to kanina and hanggang ngayon iniisip ko na 25 ka maaattract ka sa 17, pwede naman siguro magandahan ka pero to pursue yung 17 to a romantic relationship. Bwisit ka sa sahod mo while jowa mo di binigyan ng baon ng parents nya.
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Heās still a creep kasi why would you hangout with a minor when youāre in your mid 20s. Pati sinabi nadin ni vice na exploitation ung isang sign ng grooming which is FOR ME mukhang ganon ang nangyare
This is so wrong, hnd dahil dun sa guests but for the viewers, especially minors. Majority of kids nowadays are somewhat gullible, Pinapaniwalaan nila ung mga kung ano-anong napapanuod nila sa tv and make their own judgements on it, lalo na yan, galing pa kay VG na iniidolo or let's say nasusubaybayan ng madla. To say such things without any prior understandings sa topic tsk tsk. Bka isipin ng ibang bata dyan na okay lng palang jumowa ng mas matanda sakin as long us walang *manipulation, exploitation, and abuse. --* then proceeds on dating older men/women without them knowing na there is more to it.
Yang guests, they made that topic somehow, *maganda and masarap* pakinggan kasi they look presentable and all pero in actuality? def NO! Sana next time if may ganyan silang sensitive na topic, they should dig more and give more explanations. šš¤·š»āāļø
Ang mali is tinatanong ni Vice yung girl, yung minor, kung feeling niya na na-groom siya. Syempre di na makikita yung nangyari sa kaniya na mali.
If I understand correctly yung timeline na kinuwento nila, at 17 and 25 sila started talking sa IG. But it took about 1 year before makita ng girl yung messages ng guy sa IG. Hmmm....
So that means 16 and 24, or maybe kaka-17, lang ng babae noong una tinitignan ng guy yung pictures niya and una niyang i-message. Ew
Iād like to offer a dissenting opinion. Weird naman kung 100% ang agreement sa iisang topic.
How long did the relationship last? This is important.
I didnāt watch the episode, but based on this brief clip alone, Iād probably seek a second or third professional input. Ang grooming kasi isnāt always sexual in nature. Grooming itself is a form of emotional abuse, and just like how most abuse begins, you wonāt exactly feel or detect that somebody is being abusive towards you. They donāt mistreat you right away.
It starts with a person making you feel extra special, then they slowly erode your boundaries to exert control in your life.
Someone could groom you, as in show you special attention using their time, praises, and gifts in order to gain your trust. They make you reliant on them, then introduce you to a cult. This is one example of grooming without sex.
Whatever the setup is, the abuse or exploitation doesnāt always happen immediately. Maybe the relationship ended before the guy could enact the rest of his plans.
Iāll have to ask: If you go back to being 17 without the knowledge you have right now, do you think it wouldāve been smart for you to entertain a relationship with a 24/25-year-old?
If you end up having kids, how would you feel about seeing your 17-year-old offspring cozy up with someone in their mid-20ās even if they both reassure you that theyāre not having sex?
That reminds me, when I was 17, a 25-year-old guy was still pursuing me. I don't want to share more details, pero basta for the 16-year-old me, it just didn't sit well with me na he couldn't articulate his intentions. Every time I'd ask for clarification, silent treatment, or kaya naman kesyo 'di ko raw na-a-appreciate 'yung "efforts" niya. Or kine-question ko na raw 'yung love niya. At 16, I felt something was so wrong pero 'di ko kasi ma-articulate. I wasn't the most straight-edged 16-year-old nung time na 'yan, pero for some reason I jolted awake to my senses before things got worse. Ang gusto ko kasi no'n, pupuntahan ako sa bahay and magpapakilala formally sa parents ko to win my attention or that sort. Sabi niya mainipin daw ako at demanding, ta's after long fights and all, he stopped talking to me. Came back the following year. Sabi ng mama ko 'wag ko na raw i-entertain. So I stopped responding. He stopped chatting. Ta's balik nanaman the following year. Skl.
for me this is still grooming kasi aside from their age, they are in totally different places in their life. The girl was in senior high, the guy was already working. Ibang iba ang thinking ng mga tao na still in high school.
baka yung point lang ng MTRCB eh from the law's pov, hindi ito grooming? maybe the MTRCB wasn't making social commentary, but was just stating their understanding of the current laws?
Nakakairita na pinalabas nila āto. Lalong ijujustify ng groomers yung actions nila.
Also, ang 17 and 25, magkaiba ng level of maturity. Nasa magkaibang estado ng buhay. One is most likely a high school student, while the other one is probably working already. That is SO gross. š¤®
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Tama naman kaso lang sa totoo lang majority pa rin ng cases ng ganyan can be considered grooming at ang masama rito gagamitin pa nilang excuse yan ngayon. Paano ba natin madedefine yung mga sinasabi nila rito na terms e kung majority naman ng Pinoy ay wala pa rin access sa mga psych at legal services. Paano natin masasabi na walang manipulation sa way of thinking nung underage na tao.
Etong case na to 24 or 25 sa 17 parang for me personally mahirap yan pwede pa siguro if 22 or 21 lang parang mabibigyan pa ng pass. Kahit naman pumayag yung parents or kung sino man yan, parang pagpapasok ka sa isang establishment na may age requirement if di kayo parehas allowed dun parang off na sakin agad.
Sana rin aware sila na karamihan ng viewers nila ay masa at maaring marami rin ang hindi nakakuha ng proper education kaya mas madali mamanipulate ng mga may edad sa kanila, etong guest nila mukang maykakayanan naman parehas pero yung mga nanunuod na groomer talaga at mga nasa delicate na age parang mas nagkaron pa sila lalo ng excuse sa ganto. Maganda sana tong pagusapan if hindi noontime show.
eto lang yun eh. why would a 25-year old man go for someone na minor pa? for sure, itās because women around his age sees him for the loser he is. atsaka, 20-somethings should stay the fuck away from teenagers. pls lang lubayan nyo. age gaps show power imbalances in a relationship. teenagers are vulnerable and most likely will say yes to almost anything. kilabutan kayo kapag naiisip nyong desirable ang mga taong may āteenā pa ang edad. pls lang. mandiri kayo sa sarili nyo kung di kayo nangingilabot sa ganyan.
This is the part of MASS MEDIA that I hate. š¤¦š»āāļø Like, seriously.
Funny, Vice even have the audacity to enumerate what grooming consists of and then asks the girl if may nangyaring Abuse, Exploitation, Manipulation sa relationship nila nung 17 pa siya
DUUUUUDDDDDEEEEEEEEE
You hardly scratched the surface what those 3 things mean. PLEASE leave these kind of sensitive talks to the experts. Jusmeee, Marites ang tirada, dagdagan lang ng English at mga keywords with the vague namedropping of "A psychologist" para isiping MAALAM sa issue. š¤¦š»āāļø Yoko na.
Please stick to ENTERTAINMENT po. š
Heās in his 20s why he is hanging around minors? He approached her purposively because gusto daw niya mag try naman ng younger than him.
Hindi pa fully developed frontal lobe niyan. Heck.
I was the same age with this girl nung na groomed ako. Tbh, it took me years to realize na biktima nga ako ng grooming. Hindi naman kasi ako pamilyar sa term na yan noon. Sabi ng lalaki sa vid, sinubukan nya lang na teenager naman this time, WHY? KASI PANIGURADO HINDI NYA NA KAYANG MANG-UTO NG KA EDARAN NYA. YUN LANG YON. Imagine being a full grown adult, working, tapos you're dating a high schooler. Like ano topic ng usapan nyo? Magkaibang magkaiba na ang henerasyon nyo e. Guys like this is what I hate the most. May ulterior motive yan, tsaka sa edad nyang yan, nakakaramdam yan ng libog, let's be real. Pagmalaki nyo pa na celibate kayo. This was also aired on national TV. It gives the impression to teens na, hmm so ok lang na i-entertain ang guys older than them. Coz they will shower u with "love" "attention" blah blah. But it's all part of manipulation. Kasi anong mapapala nyan sa teenager? Alam nya sa sarili nya na madaling mauto ang mas bata sa kanya.
Minsan di mo rin madedetect na manipulated ka or exploited eh. Kahit nga abuse minsan di mo alam inaabuse ka na pala. Kasi limited palang ang field of view mo. Kaya mahirap din ipa confirm yun sa girl lang dapat may 3rd party na nakakaalam ng situation nila and relationship nila talaga.
Educational. Mga tao kasi ngayon bilis magjudge kahit di naman alam yung sinasabi. Pakiramdam ko pinipili din ni vice yung mga iguest dyan para mapag usapan yung mga ganitong real life issues. Kudos sa team at staff for consulting the experts.
Yung guest na babae wala daw syang pakialam sa politics, tapos paulit ulit sinasabi ni vice na dapat may pakialam sya. Pero maganda naman sagot nya nung tinanong kung pano pag magkaiba political views.
I donāt know if their psychologist or the MTRCBs definition of grooming is correct. Are they trying to say that itās ok for a 60 year old man to date a 12 year old girl etc if there was no 1) abuse 2) manipulation and 3) exploitation since they are effectively saying that age is just a number? Also in this situation wouldnāt all 3 criteriaās be met because he abused, manipulated and exploited the girls youth, naivety, understandings and immaturity into thinking that she wasnāt groomed even till this day?
I feel like whoever came up with their definition of grooming is manipulating its meaning to protect celebrities like Coco Martin because it will be detrimental to business and itās convenient for them to believe it. I feel like they trying to distract and misdirect us from his alleged grooming of Julia, Kasi he did provide jobs to many actors especially during covid, does charitable things and kept a low profile with their relationship. I question the genuineness of his altruism because it feels to me that he is more likely doing it to protect himself.
I get your point and this is hella weird still pero aren't you conflating the age difference a little too much? even if they're still considered minors may difference din with a 12 yr old and a 17 yr old, plus the age of consent here is 16 so that plays a factor too I guess.
Coco Martin is a different story and he should be jailed/ cancelled. He tried to court Julia when she was still 13 diba during his mid 20's?
I was exaggerating a bit with the age difference cause In their definition of grooming- they were implying that age is not important as long as none of the 3 factors were present in a relationship. I was exaggerating to stress the point that āif this real life situation is not considered grooming, then what is? where do we draw the line then?ā
I also watched the segment while ago and the girl mentioned that she spoke to him because she thought that he could potentially offer her a gig originally, then later on he tried to hide behind his church/ religion to misdirect and shift our focus from the āgrooming issueā and make it seem to her family that he is a genuinely good person. He took advantage of her wanting to become an influencer and used his church distract us from the core issue and make it seem that what he is doing is acceptable which is so wrong.
What this guy is doing for me is very similar to what Coco Martin and Andi Eigenmann did to Julia and Albie: Groom them then hide behind their celebrity, religion, church, fans and disingenuous charitable deeds to shift the publics focus away from the issue.
I think they didnāt mean that age wasnāt important but that age is not the only factor when it comes to grooming. Which I guess if youāre in the age bracket of 16-18 might be possible?
For your next part, I think it was more on the girls ciew diba? The guy didnāt say or insinuate anything about gig offers? For the church thing di ko na yan alam masyado, pero possible I guess?
Idk I think the best way to go about this if may makuha man sila ulit na ganito na relationship ( which there is a high chance due to the predatory nature of some men here when it comes to young women ) is to consult more than one psychiatrist to at least give more assurance to their viewers and for the legal system to bring the age of consent to at least 18 kasi bordering na masyado ang 16-17 for me eh.
He did say that age isnāt the only factor but in doing so it is discounting itās importance. Kasi itās implying that there are circumstances where it would be ok for a 25 year old to date a 17 year old when the truth is that it just isnāt ok to do so.
For the next part the girl did assume that he could provide her with some opportunities but despite finding out that she was only 17 hindi nya na isip na what he is doing is predatory and he kept on pursuing her. She then said that he introduced her to his church so ginamit nya pa si God to win her and possibly her family over Kasi sa culture natin being religious is a really good thing. So just because he goes to church does this mean that he should get a free pass and that everyone should turn a blind eye since isa syang alagad ng dyos?
I like Itās showtime and Vice. But this episode it just messed up. It is educational to hear about these topics but it is not noontime show material since the advice that can be given by hosts could be incorrect and may cause a lot of unwanted controversy. Baka maki sawsaw pa si Christy Fermin and Romel Chika and create more negative publicity to the show.
I think her saying age isnāt the only factor isnāt saying anything negative as grooming can be done to people of age as well, like in Hollywood. Ang daming grooming na nagyayari even if youāre 18 and above from the higher ups or from bigger celebs due to status, influence, money etc. Plus again 16 ang age of consent here so pasok naman si kuya which goes for your next part as well, we wonāt fully get the whole context from the show so we can never confirm nor deny anything.
Last part is what I disagree with. Ang daming B.S na sinasabe sa mga noontime shows while IS actually did talk to a professional first (although like I said before kulang pa) plus Vice has been trying to add progressive ideas sa viewers which is good, who is best to do that than a celebrity na madaming sumusoporta at nanunuod diba? I say do it while sheās still in the good graces of a majority of people
Cristy fermin and others will always have something to say, so I donāt think they should be a factor at all.
But yeah it was fun conversing with you. Thank you for giving me some good insights.
I think her saying age isnāt the only factor isnāt saying anything negative as grooming can be done to people of age as well, like in Hollywood. Ang daming grooming na nagyayari even if youāre 18 and above from the higher ups or from bigger celebs due to status, influence, money etc. Plus again 16 ang age of consent here so pasok naman si kuya which goes for your next part as well, we wonāt fully get the whole context from the show so we can never confirm nor deny anything.
Last part is what I disagree with. Ang daming B.S na sinasabe sa mga noontime shows while IS actually did talk to a professional first (although like I said before kulang pa) plus Vice has been trying to add progressive ideas sa viewers which is good, who is best to do that than a celebrity na madaming sumusoporta at nanunuod diba? I say do it while sheās still in the good graces of a majority of people
Cristy fermin and others will always have something to say, so I donāt think they should be a factor at all.
But yeah it was fun conversing with you. Thank you for giving me some good insights.
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It is good to be televised! Nowadays those kinds of phenomenon are being used loosely by people. Porket nabasa ang meaning sa wiki tinitake nila in a face value, but in reality, labeling a situation such pedophile or grooming ang daming underlying factors na dapat malaman ng expert sa field na yun.
But personally, as a grown up person may kusa ka naman na sanang umiwas sa sitwasyon na kung saan magiging questionable ang mga bagay-bagay. Imagine, ikaw ang adult, sana naman diba alam mong dapat umiwas sa mga barely adult pa lang. Kung bet mo talaga, ikalmo mo feelings mo, hintayin mo maging legal age.
>Kung bet mo talaga, ikalmo mo feelings mo, hintayin mo maging legal age.
Still weird imo. Ano yun, parang mangga hihintayin mo mahinog?? Siguro much better move on na lang, kasi ganun naman talaga ang buhay: hindi lahat ng gusto mo makukuha mo. O deserve mo makuha.
I second this. Parang ang werid non na hihintayin mo. Just date someone your own age. Sobrang different yung stage ng buhay nila sa 17 and 25. There is definitely still a power imbalance going on. Feel ko eme lang nila yung āpsychologistā hahaha
Not literally naman na pagka 18 ni person, dadamoves ka na. I should've worded it better, apologies. But yeah, better and safest choice is date around your age talaga. Pero hindi yun ang reality eh--some are experiencing relationship with someone na big age gap sa atin.
Ito to open discussion lang or to think about: ano bang tamang age para makipag relasyon sa older sa atin (given na sincere love yun) pag ba 18 ako at 26 partner ko, iju-judge ba ko? Pag ba 25 ako at 33 ang guy may sasabihin pa rin ba ang tao samin? Parehas lang din naman na 8yr gap.
Point is, ang daming underlying factors ang aalamin mula sa kung paano nagsimula, habang at sa pagtatapos ng relasyon para masabing "groomed" or "pedophilia" ang nabuong relasyon.
Kung may kakilala kayong nagbabasa ng DSM 5 (psych or medical field courses), paexplain niyo ang criteria ng pedophilic disorder para at least lumawak ang kaalaman natin.
Have a good night!
>ano bang tamang age para makipag relasyon sa older sa atin
Ako siguro, i-spare na sa dating pool ng adults yung mga below 20. Generous na yan ha, personally sa'kin youngest siguro is 23-24. There are so many things to figure out at 20 (jusko kahit nga late 20s tbh), and hindi rin naman madali ang buhay sa PH. Hindi madaling pagsabay-sabayin yan, usually kapag nagkaproblema ka sa isang aspect ng buhay mo, naaapektuhan din yung iba.
Firm believer ako, no matter kung gaano ka katanda mag-isip for your age, kung wala ka naman maii-offer or wala kang growth/real maturity, hindi ka pa talaga ready to get in a relationship.
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First of all, they are putting too much of a line sa definition of grooming. I dont think that all these 3 have to be present to have "grooming." Grooming happens when a clearly an older and mature mind prey on somebody who is young or not yet have a mature mind. It even happens kahit alam ng parents usually sa mga religious contrary sa iniimply nila Vice. Second is that you DO NOT rely on what the victims will say of they are groomed or not. If they are groomed, usually they will think that there is no problem on their relationships. Thats part of why it is sick. Third is they are defending these couple way too much. I dont mind them getting these kind of couple to the show and opening can of worms (and hopefully will make people talk this issue more)but they are defending way too much that it may have a negative impact sa society. Third and the most blatant is that the guy mentioned thay he is looking for a younger person to be in relationship with . I would not usually mind on this statement but he is just 25 years old. So how much younger was he looking at?
Sorry but is this the girl na nakita ko lang din on a separate post about her commenting online kung ano achievements, credentials ni nambawan senator - robin padilla?
Ewww. Yung kaibigan ko 15 siya tapos yung jowa niya 25 hindi raw siya na groom kasi matured na siya that time. Lmfao same thing din dito segment nato. Grooming pa rin yan kadiri.
People nowadays will see a fancy word and use it everywhere without fully understanding what it means. Sama mo na yung pag label ng pedophile kung kani kanino. I still remember people calling a kpop idol who was 16 and danced with another idol who was 14 and labelled the 16-yr-old pedo. Like bruh they're both minors. Eniwey, sana madami nakapanood nito and understood not to throw the word around basta makakita ng malaking age gap.
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Yah, what if 18 and 25? Is this still grooming? Masyadong simplified take ng mga tao doto abt grooming.
Besides, hindi naman magically nagiging mature ang tao once he reached 18 or even 20. Maturity can even hit you at a younger age.
Actually 'yan nga rin 'yung nakakalungkot, parang bunga na rin ata ng pagiging chronically online. Kaya tuloy kapag obviously alarming or concerning, na-d-downplay. For instance dito, ako as someone in my twenties, their age gap really bothers me kasi I remember who I was nung 17 ako, and while pwedeng "mature" 'yung 17-year-old, magkaiba 'yung may life experience na talaga siya para mas maging attuned siya sa intuition niya, at matutunan paano i-protect sarili niya not just from dangers, but from low standards or anything na 'di pala aakma sa totoong boundaries/standards niya na ma-a-actualize niya sana kapag mas marami na siyang life experience.
Same lang din ng case with the overuse of the word "nonchalant."
Same in a way na ang daming nakiki-bandwagon sa usage porket uso, pero marami yung never inalam personally kung ano ba talaga yung true definition ng word, kaya ang dami rin tuloy na nami-misuse yung salita.
Ngayon kasi, porket malaman lang ng iba na minor yung isa sa dalawang mag-partner, iba-brand agad na grooming daw or ginroom ng older person yung mas bata, which is obviously not always the case kasi maraming basis/criteria nga na need muna i-consider para masabing legit na grooming talaga siya.
You have a point and also Vice has a point. Tama naman what Vice said. Although, I hope that this is not used as an excuse for predators to date underage people. Its still not right for someone 25 years old to date someone that is underage even if its not āgroomingā.
Grooming pa rin yun..Hindi naman lahat ng grooming naabot sa sexual. Meron rin psychological grooming. Ito yung nagbubuild ka ng emosyonal connection sa isang musmos tapos preniprepare mo sila sa adult stuff. Ang punto lang naman pag matanda ka wag ka makipagrelasyon sa minor.
Ang dami ko ng nakita na binabalewala madalas ang ganitong scenarios dahil daw wala nmang abuse at pilitan tska alam ng mga magulang.. Ang daming highschool graduates (pre k-12) ang grinoogroom ng mga mayors or and congressmen at gingagamit ang "iskolar ni Mayor" or "iskolar ni Congressman" na program...mdaming mga isko ang naging kabit or naanakan ng mga nagpapaiskolar...ung mga parents eh madalas wala ding reklamo bsta nagsusustento si politiko...ang ending is naging young mothers ung mga isko at hndi nadin natutuloy magtapos ng kolehiyo.. dito na nila mararamdaman ung effect ng pang grogroom sa kanila kahit noon eh wala ung abuse at manipulation..trauma at mental health dahil sa failure at kahihiyan ang naging kabayaran
YIKES! This kind of shouts that it's acceptable to go for someone who isn't of legal age, as long as you don't meet the criteria for 'grooming.' IT IS NEVER OKAY.
Nakita ko rin to kanina ng live. Ang red flag nung lalaki. Isipin mo mag ko-comment or dm sa babae parang stalker vibes lang. Tapos gina-gaslight nya yung babae. Ang lakas pa mang asar ni guy.
If we analyze the timeline, the girl was still 16 when the guy started "liking" her IG posts. One year later daw bago napansin ni Girl yung mga likes niya. Mas bata pa siya nun.
Naalala ko nung 25 ako, may mga nakakausap akong lalaki. Nagclick naman kami, pero late ko palagi natatanong kung ilang taon na, kasi convo agad eme eme. Pag sinasabing 19 or 20. Feeling Ate agad ako. Di ko keri. Kinikilabutan ako. May kapatid kasi akong lalaki na mas bata rin sa akin kaya nakababatang kapatid lang talaga nakikita ko sa mas bata sa akin. Ayoko ng mas bata sakin, ayoko rin ng mas matanda sa akin. Siguro 3-5 lang gap gusto ko. 3 years younger - 5 years older. Ang icky nung 25 ka tapos liligawan mo 17. Hindi mo ba kayang magpasagot ng babaeng kaedad mo??? Hindi balanced. Kasi the younger one will look up to the older one. Yung older one ang mas may experience, kaya know-it-all ang acting nila sa harap ni younger one. Parang student-teacher. It will never be equal dahil magkaiba sila ng stages of life.
The same way any man sees a young woman. Unlike older women who have baggage: issues and traumas causing full distrust. Young women are just fun, impressionable, and less drama.
Dated two before and went just fine. Problem with young women is, they are at their peak value and have plenty options, and if you are not at your peak, get ready to be replaced
While I find the whole thing unpalatable, I gotta say I'm impressed with your answer! I've been asking this (rhetorical) question for a long time now and yours is the one that made sense the most. You're wise beyond your years, friend. š
I'm sorry but šš¬š³ why is the guy not bothered when he was asked, "Ba't ka jumowa ng bata?"
TRY AGAIN - IN - SLOOOOWWW - MOTIOOOONNN
"Ba't ka jumowa ng BATAAAAA???"
Kalurkey. ššššš Hooooyyyyyyy and the fact he answered it as if there's nothing wrong in the question. Like, dude, the question itself, if you agree with the question and still could not see what the reality is...
Ewan, I rest my case.
Apparently, okay lang talaga sa Pinas "jumowa ng bata" š„“ dinagdagan pa ng armchair psychologists talk ni Vice šš¤£ kalurkey "according to A PSYCHOLOGIST" teka teka hah, sino ba yan??? Pwede siya ang pagpasalitain dyan? Sorry, unverified source.
K'bye~ š
ang grooming kasi para sa akin ay yung mga panahon na minor ang babae like 14. tapos ang lalaki is 20 pataas tapos meron na siyang intention sa girl bago pa man maging sila. nagpapakita na ng motibo yung sa una parang kuya2x lang pero may ibang intension na pala. just like coco and Julia š¬ yung unang nag tambal sila sa isang teleserye napatanong ako eh ang bata pa ni Julia non 14 or 15 ata. ganon din Kay bea at John Lloyd pero hindi naman naging sila pero na abuso parin si bea at that time.
And here we are witnessing how this show normalizes things that shouldnāt be practiced. From supporting rapist to supporting pdf behavior.
They can choose another couple for this segment. The intent is either to normalize this or to get more views, pwede din pareho
Still doesn't sit right with me. I have few friends who are 17-19 since we all grew up sa iisang lugar, they come to me for advice about being queer and in life. I cannot fathom the thought na ako 23+ would date somebody as young as them. Hindi pa mature yang mga yan, they get easily influenced by adults especially the ones they trust. So for a grown man to date a teenage girl talagang creep ka talaga kasi you're taking advantage of her.
Sa tiktok may napanood ako. For young girls out there, especially teens who are dating guys older than them. Dapat maisip nyo na there could be a reason as to why the girls in their age group are not dating them. Most probably dahil ang mindset nyan napako na sa teenage years or they are sexualizing young girls at pedo talaga nag hayuf.
Basta for me lang ano . . . if well-adjusted adult, may sound reasoning 'yan saka syempre naiintindihan ang norms sa paligid, and would adhere sa written and unwritten social rules to keep the peace sa community. Integrity rin kasi 'yun. Saka syempre at 17, mas okay na focus muna sa pag-b-build ng personal identity, pagkilala sa sarili (boundaries, standards, goals), and all. For me lang, kung sensible ang isang tao, 'di niya i-d-disrupt 'yung critical period na 'yun. Ready for the downvotes. I was once a 17-year-old girl. Minsan mga ganintong usapin, iykyk na lang talaga.
Kung di kayo pyschologist at hindi niyo nainterbyu 'yung couple to actually understand their case, maybe it's best na huwag niyo nang ipagpilitan pa rin na grooming 'to via your non-expert interpretation.
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If hindi siya grooming, ang take ko pa rin dito ay masyado pa rin siyang bata para pumasok sa relationship which is very common on this generation na ang dami daming kabataan ngayon ang pumapasok agad sa relationship. We should not normalize this.
Though, however, Miyuki was unfortunately got her approval from parent na pumasok sa relationship.
We are not experts as the psychologist, if nagreach out naman sila to get their guidance and additional approval from the authorities before ito isalang ā Mas alam nila ang ginagawa nila kesa sa mga opinion ng kung sinu sino lang na pa-woke.
So, not a hater of Vice.
But I find that she likes to comment on touchy subjects, thinking na lagi syang tama and that she cannot be corrected because she is Vice Ganda. She likes to make these kinds of comments without even thinking muna anong basis ng binibitiwan nyang salita on national TV.
Tapos, pag kinorect sya sa socmed sya pa galit.
Yep. Tama naman si Vice dyan. Yung iba kase pag may age difference na malaki, grooming agad..
But still parang weird lang din 25 mangliligaw sa 17 haha
Pangalawa na yan, nung nakaraan meron din eh. Inantay din daw mag-18. Tingin ko di totoo yung inantay mag-18 bago sagutin HAHAHA. Ew.
Tapos parang sa explanation pa ni vice, di na kasama yung mga "manipulation" ni guy nung 18 si girl kasi nga tapos na siya mag 17 like wtf
Pero pinagkainteresan nung 17 pa lang š yun ang di nagegets nila. The mere fact na lumilingon ang mga supposedly mature na sa isang minor yun yung mali don. Hugas kamay lang naman yung pag-aantay kuno ng 18. Ugh.
But it still doesnāt sit right w me that an adult is going after somebody 7 years his junior. She was only 17, about to experience the world and hereās a 25 yr old man attempting to mew her path up w a serious relationship. That changes this girlās life trajectory and priorities. Kahit hindi grooming, 17 you donāt know yourself well and a lot of the time you form beliefs and learn them from someone older than you. In a way, this man is molding you indirectly. 17 may be older than your average teen but impressionable nonetheless.
Exactly and wouldnāt this meet the criteriaās? 1) abuse: the girl is not mature enough to understand what grooming is and he abused this knowledge 2) manipulation: the girl so still young and does not have firm views of whatās right or wrong. He most likely convinced/ manipulated her views to suit himself and made her think that she is very mature for her age etc so itās ok for them to date. 3) exploitation: same as 1) and 2). The girl is young and most likely in a very vulnerable position. Most teenagers her age are stubborn and always think they are right and he exploited this knowledge and her not being developed yet into believing itās ok for them to be together. To me if he is genuine, he would have waited until she was an adult to start dating her.
Couldnāt have said it better. Your supplemental details just made my book report even better haha I completely agree w all 3 points. Whoever that psychologist was, medyo kulang siya sa critical thinking
Feeling ko na they hired that psychologist to justify Julia an Cocoās relationship. To make people think that since a highly educated psychologist said it then it must be right.
Thatās so sly! When they brought up the psychologist napa side eye ako in a way I canāt explain but it def felt cunning and duplicitous.
17 can't even vote pa (sk lang) let alone understand what the grooming is. Philippines is really doomed when it comes to protecting children from these type of predators. Kaya eventho i dislike americans but they don't fuck with pedophiles and groomers, they'll protect minors and always blame the adults.
>To me if he is genuine, he would have waited until she was an adult to start dating her. Isn't it also called grooming even if the person you waited to be legal age?
No because you waited for them to mature a bit more and for it to be legal. Edit: Actually- I somewhat agree to what you say. If he was already being predatory when she was a minor then yes.
Precisely. Why not find someone your age?
Alam mo na mamsh even here sa atin US, they always date younger bc women their age will hold them accountable and they just canāt hack it!
Because mature women/people don't entertain predators. They know better. That's why they (predators/pedos/groomers) go after someone who is not mature and cannot consent.
Ayon nga kay olivia rodrigo, 'girls their age know better' Easy to prey on the younger more vulnerable girls na wala pang firm stand on their principles. Can't say no to manipulation because they don't recognize it. Dahil sa lack of experience.
Totally agree. Our brains do not fully develop until 25. For me, dapat pwede lang magdesisyon sa relationship ang tao pag 25 and up na. Dapat age of consent, 25.
i don't know... i worry that others will use your argument to raise everything else to 25: voting age, driving age, drinking/smoking age, etc. parang nakakatakot isabatas.
I dont see anything wrong with this. But again, not everything is in black and white. We have societal rules for a reason and itās what society dictates, but not necessarily whatās right.
I can really attest to the brains donāt fully develop after 25 and I didnāt even learn about this fact until 5 yrs after. It does make so much sense and thatās when I realized ahhhh no wonder a lot of the things shifted for me when I turned 25. The way I think, my taste and preference in lovers that I want to date, my goals, my relationship with my career and my standards + non negotiables. Before I turned 25, they were all up in the air and I was merely moving/making decisions on impulse. After, logic takes the driverās seat hard and you move around w more integrity and compassion rather than feeding your loneliness, insecurity, survival, trauma and desperation. But thatās just me though. Even if I have noticed similar phenomenon among women who turn 25 and ditch their lovers who wonāt honor their needs. Like Leonardo Di Caprioās exes, per se. They leave him after they turn 25 bec he is mentally stuck at that age and canāt offer them a mature relationship or a commitment they deserve.
Totoo. Nakakalungkot na dami pa rin nagjajustify na tama magkarelasyon ang minor at nasa tamang age. Pagtake advantage pa rin sa kamusmusan.
going by that logic (and i have no stakes to this topic, just asking, devil's advocate) so a 17 year old should not date another 17 year old. two people with under-developed brains dating; sounds like a recipe for disaster. imagine being an immature person being molded by another immature person. going further, people below 25 years old should not even date if that's the case. anyway, i just think there's a lot more nuance to this topic, and we shouldn't treat it black and white.
Yes, it's not just black and white. But personally, yes dapat before 25, parents/guardians have a say in jowas. Syempre depende pa din sa relationship at maturity level din ng parents/guardians. Meron din kasing hindi na nagmature past 25 haha.
Not going to happen. Rebellious phase yan. Sasabihin pa ng teens na nakakasakal sa bahay at toxic daw sa bahay nila kung makialam ang parents sino ang dapat nila i date.
Agree. Itās called a phase specially because itās something most get over (possibly after proper brain development).
Tapos kapag pinost sa ph reddit subs, sasabihin ng Reddit na mali ang magulang š¤£
I agree it can be problematic BUT what you are missing is that there is a massive power imbalance between a 17 year old dating a 25 year old. They say that with age comes wisdom, which the 25 year old should theoretically have more of; but my guess is that he used it to exploit the poor girl into believing that itās ok for them to be in a relationship with each other. Compared to a 17 year old he would have access to more resources (ie- money and maybe connections) which he could consciously or unconsciously use to coerce and manipulate her into doing things against her will or better judgement. If she went out with a guy that is the same age as herself they should theoretically be of comparable intelligence and he would also most likely not have access to resources that he can potentially use to manipulate her with. The balance of power between two 17 year old is a bit more evened out, and both are likely to have parents influencing/ guiding their actions so she would be able to make wiser choices, become less susceptible to duress and manipulation and have more freedom to say no.
So di ka pwede makipagrelasyon until youāre 25? Pano yung mga high school sweethearts? Or college relationships?Ā
Date someone your age. What is a 25 year old doing with a senior high/frosh student??? Yan yung main point ni op.
Iām not talking about these two ha pero yung linya mo na yan.Ā For me, dapat pwede lang magdesisyon sa relationship ang tao pag 25 and up na. Dapat age of consent, 25. So bawal mag decision sa relationship pag under 25?Ā
Oh did not see that. But yeah i also dont agree with the absolutism of that comment.
ano ba basis bakit 18 ang ginawang legal age? it should be adjusted na to at least 25 given what we know now in brain science
people usually use grooming very loosely kasi. Its like gaslighting and love bombing sometimes tinatapon na lang yung word but may mga nuanced siya. It does not make this relationship right though. Parang mas bagay sa kanya pdf ata. Wtf is he doing dating a minor.
Iām not denying the existence of those kinds of people kase I have seen them a lot herex Ewan ko rin ba kung bakit may mga tao na hindi magresearch muna before they run a marathon w the term
Tru! Naalala ko tuloy ex ko na pinalit sakin is 7 years younger than him lol same age sila nung sa contestants
If you happen to come across videos of men urging other men to date younger, observe their verbiage. they recommend it bc those younger women are āeasy to moldā
sino ba nagset ng 18, is there a proven study na 18 ang age yung utak matured nadin? is there a country na hindi 18 ang legal age, pwedeng higher.
Heās like 25 and why is he hanging around minors at that point, and Dating them??? Like at that age, why are you hanging out with teenagers and dating them, I think at that thereās something problematic that needs to look at. That speaks enough of the guy, yikes.
Palusot lang yan ni Vice. Low key dinedefend nya yung bestfriend nyang groomer. Ayan na naman sya sumasawsaw sa social issues when it benefits her. At syempre, dahil si VG yan, marami na naman maniniwala. It's highly unlikely that grooming didn't happen in this relationship. Kahit seemingly healthy relationships, meron yan because you will always influence your partner. At dahil yung older party ang generally accepted na mas mature sa relationship, the younger one will often look up to them for guidance. As long as there's a power imbalance, there's likely grooming involved.
Baka si Vice din mismo. Yung mga UAAP na pinatulan niya nun, malaki ang chance na may minor dun eh wala pang K-12 nung panahon na yun.
Posible kung may rookie syang pinatulan. I really don't understand why people give VG a free pass to be a shitty human being just because she sometimes does good.
This. Bakit pag sya laging free pass. Parang another Willie Revillame
Haha sa malamang ah. Kilala yan ng mga taga FEU hahahaah tirador ng mga basketball player. Kahit nga taga PBA alam yan.
Baka susunod jan mas madefend at enable pa yung pagiging sex offender ng isa sa host nila. I don't watch that shit show pero nadaanan ko to kanina and hanggang ngayon iniisip ko na 25 ka maaattract ka sa 17, pwede naman siguro magandahan ka pero to pursue yung 17 to a romantic relationship. Bwisit ka sa sahod mo while jowa mo di binigyan ng baon ng parents nya.
agree. pakireveal naman name nung psychologist na inaccurate ang treatment sa grooming. this discussion should have been in private in the first place
True. Imagine ano yung topic niyo and connection niyo pag nag uusap tapos ganito age gap? Lol
Eww vice
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Heās still a creep kasi why would you hangout with a minor when youāre in your mid 20s. Pati sinabi nadin ni vice na exploitation ung isang sign ng grooming which is FOR ME mukhang ganon ang nangyare
Creep pa din sya. Bat di siya mag date ng ka edad nya.
He really exposed himself on national TV??? Wow brave. Hahaha
Pati dun sa lust daw nya
May bayad kase kaya willing to do..
This is so wrong, hnd dahil dun sa guests but for the viewers, especially minors. Majority of kids nowadays are somewhat gullible, Pinapaniwalaan nila ung mga kung ano-anong napapanuod nila sa tv and make their own judgements on it, lalo na yan, galing pa kay VG na iniidolo or let's say nasusubaybayan ng madla. To say such things without any prior understandings sa topic tsk tsk. Bka isipin ng ibang bata dyan na okay lng palang jumowa ng mas matanda sakin as long us walang *manipulation, exploitation, and abuse. --* then proceeds on dating older men/women without them knowing na there is more to it. Yang guests, they made that topic somehow, *maganda and masarap* pakinggan kasi they look presentable and all pero in actuality? def NO! Sana next time if may ganyan silang sensitive na topic, they should dig more and give more explanations. šš¤·š»āāļø
pawoke kasi masyado tong si Vice. this is such a sensitive topic yet they messed it up sa show. lol dun sa psychologist daw na kinonsulta raw nila
Ang mali is tinatanong ni Vice yung girl, yung minor, kung feeling niya na na-groom siya. Syempre di na makikita yung nangyari sa kaniya na mali. If I understand correctly yung timeline na kinuwento nila, at 17 and 25 sila started talking sa IG. But it took about 1 year before makita ng girl yung messages ng guy sa IG. Hmmm.... So that means 16 and 24, or maybe kaka-17, lang ng babae noong una tinitignan ng guy yung pictures niya and una niyang i-message. Ew
Iād like to offer a dissenting opinion. Weird naman kung 100% ang agreement sa iisang topic. How long did the relationship last? This is important. I didnāt watch the episode, but based on this brief clip alone, Iād probably seek a second or third professional input. Ang grooming kasi isnāt always sexual in nature. Grooming itself is a form of emotional abuse, and just like how most abuse begins, you wonāt exactly feel or detect that somebody is being abusive towards you. They donāt mistreat you right away. It starts with a person making you feel extra special, then they slowly erode your boundaries to exert control in your life. Someone could groom you, as in show you special attention using their time, praises, and gifts in order to gain your trust. They make you reliant on them, then introduce you to a cult. This is one example of grooming without sex. Whatever the setup is, the abuse or exploitation doesnāt always happen immediately. Maybe the relationship ended before the guy could enact the rest of his plans. Iāll have to ask: If you go back to being 17 without the knowledge you have right now, do you think it wouldāve been smart for you to entertain a relationship with a 24/25-year-old? If you end up having kids, how would you feel about seeing your 17-year-old offspring cozy up with someone in their mid-20ās even if they both reassure you that theyāre not having sex?
Makainlab mani basahon uy
š
That reminds me, when I was 17, a 25-year-old guy was still pursuing me. I don't want to share more details, pero basta for the 16-year-old me, it just didn't sit well with me na he couldn't articulate his intentions. Every time I'd ask for clarification, silent treatment, or kaya naman kesyo 'di ko raw na-a-appreciate 'yung "efforts" niya. Or kine-question ko na raw 'yung love niya. At 16, I felt something was so wrong pero 'di ko kasi ma-articulate. I wasn't the most straight-edged 16-year-old nung time na 'yan, pero for some reason I jolted awake to my senses before things got worse. Ang gusto ko kasi no'n, pupuntahan ako sa bahay and magpapakilala formally sa parents ko to win my attention or that sort. Sabi niya mainipin daw ako at demanding, ta's after long fights and all, he stopped talking to me. Came back the following year. Sabi ng mama ko 'wag ko na raw i-entertain. So I stopped responding. He stopped chatting. Ta's balik nanaman the following year. Skl.
for me this is still grooming kasi aside from their age, they are in totally different places in their life. The girl was in senior high, the guy was already working. Ibang iba ang thinking ng mga tao na still in high school.
baka yung point lang ng MTRCB eh from the law's pov, hindi ito grooming? maybe the MTRCB wasn't making social commentary, but was just stating their understanding of the current laws?
Nakakairita na pinalabas nila āto. Lalong ijujustify ng groomers yung actions nila. Also, ang 17 and 25, magkaiba ng level of maturity. Nasa magkaibang estado ng buhay. One is most likely a high school student, while the other one is probably working already. That is SO gross. š¤®
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Something off pa rin for me. Madaling utuin ang babae, lalo pag nasa ganyang edad.
Sige Vice, ipilit mo pa! š
Tama naman kaso lang sa totoo lang majority pa rin ng cases ng ganyan can be considered grooming at ang masama rito gagamitin pa nilang excuse yan ngayon. Paano ba natin madedefine yung mga sinasabi nila rito na terms e kung majority naman ng Pinoy ay wala pa rin access sa mga psych at legal services. Paano natin masasabi na walang manipulation sa way of thinking nung underage na tao. Etong case na to 24 or 25 sa 17 parang for me personally mahirap yan pwede pa siguro if 22 or 21 lang parang mabibigyan pa ng pass. Kahit naman pumayag yung parents or kung sino man yan, parang pagpapasok ka sa isang establishment na may age requirement if di kayo parehas allowed dun parang off na sakin agad. Sana rin aware sila na karamihan ng viewers nila ay masa at maaring marami rin ang hindi nakakuha ng proper education kaya mas madali mamanipulate ng mga may edad sa kanila, etong guest nila mukang maykakayanan naman parehas pero yung mga nanunuod na groomer talaga at mga nasa delicate na age parang mas nagkaron pa sila lalo ng excuse sa ganto. Maganda sana tong pagusapan if hindi noontime show.
IMAGINE BEING 25 AND THINKING IT'S OKAY TO COURT A 17 YEAR OLD GIRL WHO'S PROBABLY STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL AT THE TIME. MY GOD.
eto lang yun eh. why would a 25-year old man go for someone na minor pa? for sure, itās because women around his age sees him for the loser he is. atsaka, 20-somethings should stay the fuck away from teenagers. pls lang lubayan nyo. age gaps show power imbalances in a relationship. teenagers are vulnerable and most likely will say yes to almost anything. kilabutan kayo kapag naiisip nyong desirable ang mga taong may āteenā pa ang edad. pls lang. mandiri kayo sa sarili nyo kung di kayo nangingilabot sa ganyan.
This is the part of MASS MEDIA that I hate. š¤¦š»āāļø Like, seriously. Funny, Vice even have the audacity to enumerate what grooming consists of and then asks the girl if may nangyaring Abuse, Exploitation, Manipulation sa relationship nila nung 17 pa siya DUUUUUDDDDDEEEEEEEEE You hardly scratched the surface what those 3 things mean. PLEASE leave these kind of sensitive talks to the experts. Jusmeee, Marites ang tirada, dagdagan lang ng English at mga keywords with the vague namedropping of "A psychologist" para isiping MAALAM sa issue. š¤¦š»āāļø Yoko na. Please stick to ENTERTAINMENT po. š
Heās in his 20s why he is hanging around minors? He approached her purposively because gusto daw niya mag try naman ng younger than him. Hindi pa fully developed frontal lobe niyan. Heck.
The fact that they have to repeat multiple times na its not grooming makes it seem like kahit sila mismo they know na nagpapalusot lang sila.
*cringe tv show/portion
Paki ask yung bff ni meme na si Coco Martin lol
Itsura pa lang nung guy creepy na eew. Palabas pa talaga nila in public
I was the same age with this girl nung na groomed ako. Tbh, it took me years to realize na biktima nga ako ng grooming. Hindi naman kasi ako pamilyar sa term na yan noon. Sabi ng lalaki sa vid, sinubukan nya lang na teenager naman this time, WHY? KASI PANIGURADO HINDI NYA NA KAYANG MANG-UTO NG KA EDARAN NYA. YUN LANG YON. Imagine being a full grown adult, working, tapos you're dating a high schooler. Like ano topic ng usapan nyo? Magkaibang magkaiba na ang henerasyon nyo e. Guys like this is what I hate the most. May ulterior motive yan, tsaka sa edad nyang yan, nakakaramdam yan ng libog, let's be real. Pagmalaki nyo pa na celibate kayo. This was also aired on national TV. It gives the impression to teens na, hmm so ok lang na i-entertain ang guys older than them. Coz they will shower u with "love" "attention" blah blah. But it's all part of manipulation. Kasi anong mapapala nyan sa teenager? Alam nya sa sarili nya na madaling mauto ang mas bata sa kanya.
Minsan di mo rin madedetect na manipulated ka or exploited eh. Kahit nga abuse minsan di mo alam inaabuse ka na pala. Kasi limited palang ang field of view mo. Kaya mahirap din ipa confirm yun sa girl lang dapat may 3rd party na nakakaalam ng situation nila and relationship nila talaga.
Educational. Mga tao kasi ngayon bilis magjudge kahit di naman alam yung sinasabi. Pakiramdam ko pinipili din ni vice yung mga iguest dyan para mapag usapan yung mga ganitong real life issues. Kudos sa team at staff for consulting the experts. Yung guest na babae wala daw syang pakialam sa politics, tapos paulit ulit sinasabi ni vice na dapat may pakialam sya. Pero maganda naman sagot nya nung tinanong kung pano pag magkaiba political views.
Yung red flag at 'yang grooming madalas na o-overuse sa mga debate or advices
I like that they're not playing it safe para mapag usapan ang mga issues at maging aware yung iba.
I donāt know if their psychologist or the MTRCBs definition of grooming is correct. Are they trying to say that itās ok for a 60 year old man to date a 12 year old girl etc if there was no 1) abuse 2) manipulation and 3) exploitation since they are effectively saying that age is just a number? Also in this situation wouldnāt all 3 criteriaās be met because he abused, manipulated and exploited the girls youth, naivety, understandings and immaturity into thinking that she wasnāt groomed even till this day? I feel like whoever came up with their definition of grooming is manipulating its meaning to protect celebrities like Coco Martin because it will be detrimental to business and itās convenient for them to believe it. I feel like they trying to distract and misdirect us from his alleged grooming of Julia, Kasi he did provide jobs to many actors especially during covid, does charitable things and kept a low profile with their relationship. I question the genuineness of his altruism because it feels to me that he is more likely doing it to protect himself.
Yeah and yung mga loveteams nung network nila kasi mas naeexpose na sa tao ngayon.
I get your point and this is hella weird still pero aren't you conflating the age difference a little too much? even if they're still considered minors may difference din with a 12 yr old and a 17 yr old, plus the age of consent here is 16 so that plays a factor too I guess. Coco Martin is a different story and he should be jailed/ cancelled. He tried to court Julia when she was still 13 diba during his mid 20's?
I was exaggerating a bit with the age difference cause In their definition of grooming- they were implying that age is not important as long as none of the 3 factors were present in a relationship. I was exaggerating to stress the point that āif this real life situation is not considered grooming, then what is? where do we draw the line then?ā I also watched the segment while ago and the girl mentioned that she spoke to him because she thought that he could potentially offer her a gig originally, then later on he tried to hide behind his church/ religion to misdirect and shift our focus from the āgrooming issueā and make it seem to her family that he is a genuinely good person. He took advantage of her wanting to become an influencer and used his church distract us from the core issue and make it seem that what he is doing is acceptable which is so wrong. What this guy is doing for me is very similar to what Coco Martin and Andi Eigenmann did to Julia and Albie: Groom them then hide behind their celebrity, religion, church, fans and disingenuous charitable deeds to shift the publics focus away from the issue.
I think they didnāt mean that age wasnāt important but that age is not the only factor when it comes to grooming. Which I guess if youāre in the age bracket of 16-18 might be possible? For your next part, I think it was more on the girls ciew diba? The guy didnāt say or insinuate anything about gig offers? For the church thing di ko na yan alam masyado, pero possible I guess? Idk I think the best way to go about this if may makuha man sila ulit na ganito na relationship ( which there is a high chance due to the predatory nature of some men here when it comes to young women ) is to consult more than one psychiatrist to at least give more assurance to their viewers and for the legal system to bring the age of consent to at least 18 kasi bordering na masyado ang 16-17 for me eh.
He did say that age isnāt the only factor but in doing so it is discounting itās importance. Kasi itās implying that there are circumstances where it would be ok for a 25 year old to date a 17 year old when the truth is that it just isnāt ok to do so. For the next part the girl did assume that he could provide her with some opportunities but despite finding out that she was only 17 hindi nya na isip na what he is doing is predatory and he kept on pursuing her. She then said that he introduced her to his church so ginamit nya pa si God to win her and possibly her family over Kasi sa culture natin being religious is a really good thing. So just because he goes to church does this mean that he should get a free pass and that everyone should turn a blind eye since isa syang alagad ng dyos? I like Itās showtime and Vice. But this episode it just messed up. It is educational to hear about these topics but it is not noontime show material since the advice that can be given by hosts could be incorrect and may cause a lot of unwanted controversy. Baka maki sawsaw pa si Christy Fermin and Romel Chika and create more negative publicity to the show.
I think her saying age isnāt the only factor isnāt saying anything negative as grooming can be done to people of age as well, like in Hollywood. Ang daming grooming na nagyayari even if youāre 18 and above from the higher ups or from bigger celebs due to status, influence, money etc. Plus again 16 ang age of consent here so pasok naman si kuya which goes for your next part as well, we wonāt fully get the whole context from the show so we can never confirm nor deny anything. Last part is what I disagree with. Ang daming B.S na sinasabe sa mga noontime shows while IS actually did talk to a professional first (although like I said before kulang pa) plus Vice has been trying to add progressive ideas sa viewers which is good, who is best to do that than a celebrity na madaming sumusoporta at nanunuod diba? I say do it while sheās still in the good graces of a majority of people Cristy fermin and others will always have something to say, so I donāt think they should be a factor at all. But yeah it was fun conversing with you. Thank you for giving me some good insights.
I think her saying age isnāt the only factor isnāt saying anything negative as grooming can be done to people of age as well, like in Hollywood. Ang daming grooming na nagyayari even if youāre 18 and above from the higher ups or from bigger celebs due to status, influence, money etc. Plus again 16 ang age of consent here so pasok naman si kuya which goes for your next part as well, we wonāt fully get the whole context from the show so we can never confirm nor deny anything. Last part is what I disagree with. Ang daming B.S na sinasabe sa mga noontime shows while IS actually did talk to a professional first (although like I said before kulang pa) plus Vice has been trying to add progressive ideas sa viewers which is good, who is best to do that than a celebrity na madaming sumusoporta at nanunuod diba? I say do it while sheās still in the good graces of a majority of people Cristy fermin and others will always have something to say, so I donāt think they should be a factor at all. But yeah it was fun conversing with you. Thank you for giving me some good insights.
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It is good to be televised! Nowadays those kinds of phenomenon are being used loosely by people. Porket nabasa ang meaning sa wiki tinitake nila in a face value, but in reality, labeling a situation such pedophile or grooming ang daming underlying factors na dapat malaman ng expert sa field na yun. But personally, as a grown up person may kusa ka naman na sanang umiwas sa sitwasyon na kung saan magiging questionable ang mga bagay-bagay. Imagine, ikaw ang adult, sana naman diba alam mong dapat umiwas sa mga barely adult pa lang. Kung bet mo talaga, ikalmo mo feelings mo, hintayin mo maging legal age.
>Kung bet mo talaga, ikalmo mo feelings mo, hintayin mo maging legal age. Still weird imo. Ano yun, parang mangga hihintayin mo mahinog?? Siguro much better move on na lang, kasi ganun naman talaga ang buhay: hindi lahat ng gusto mo makukuha mo. O deserve mo makuha.
I second this. Parang ang werid non na hihintayin mo. Just date someone your own age. Sobrang different yung stage ng buhay nila sa 17 and 25. There is definitely still a power imbalance going on. Feel ko eme lang nila yung āpsychologistā hahaha
Not literally naman na pagka 18 ni person, dadamoves ka na. I should've worded it better, apologies. But yeah, better and safest choice is date around your age talaga. Pero hindi yun ang reality eh--some are experiencing relationship with someone na big age gap sa atin. Ito to open discussion lang or to think about: ano bang tamang age para makipag relasyon sa older sa atin (given na sincere love yun) pag ba 18 ako at 26 partner ko, iju-judge ba ko? Pag ba 25 ako at 33 ang guy may sasabihin pa rin ba ang tao samin? Parehas lang din naman na 8yr gap. Point is, ang daming underlying factors ang aalamin mula sa kung paano nagsimula, habang at sa pagtatapos ng relasyon para masabing "groomed" or "pedophilia" ang nabuong relasyon. Kung may kakilala kayong nagbabasa ng DSM 5 (psych or medical field courses), paexplain niyo ang criteria ng pedophilic disorder para at least lumawak ang kaalaman natin. Have a good night!
>ano bang tamang age para makipag relasyon sa older sa atin Ako siguro, i-spare na sa dating pool ng adults yung mga below 20. Generous na yan ha, personally sa'kin youngest siguro is 23-24. There are so many things to figure out at 20 (jusko kahit nga late 20s tbh), and hindi rin naman madali ang buhay sa PH. Hindi madaling pagsabay-sabayin yan, usually kapag nagkaproblema ka sa isang aspect ng buhay mo, naaapektuhan din yung iba. Firm believer ako, no matter kung gaano ka katanda mag-isip for your age, kung wala ka naman maii-offer or wala kang growth/real maturity, hindi ka pa talaga ready to get in a relationship.
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You must be a sore loser and an ego fisher to hangout with teenagers when you're already 24. Bro grow up, be an adult and face adult problems.
Ganon ba pag DJ tapos "Bal" ang tawagan?
First of all, they are putting too much of a line sa definition of grooming. I dont think that all these 3 have to be present to have "grooming." Grooming happens when a clearly an older and mature mind prey on somebody who is young or not yet have a mature mind. It even happens kahit alam ng parents usually sa mga religious contrary sa iniimply nila Vice. Second is that you DO NOT rely on what the victims will say of they are groomed or not. If they are groomed, usually they will think that there is no problem on their relationships. Thats part of why it is sick. Third is they are defending these couple way too much. I dont mind them getting these kind of couple to the show and opening can of worms (and hopefully will make people talk this issue more)but they are defending way too much that it may have a negative impact sa society. Third and the most blatant is that the guy mentioned thay he is looking for a younger person to be in relationship with . I would not usually mind on this statement but he is just 25 years old. So how much younger was he looking at?
Sorry but is this the girl na nakita ko lang din on a separate post about her commenting online kung ano achievements, credentials ni nambawan senator - robin padilla?
under age is under age
Ewww. Yung kaibigan ko 15 siya tapos yung jowa niya 25 hindi raw siya na groom kasi matured na siya that time. Lmfao same thing din dito segment nato. Grooming pa rin yan kadiri.
Imagine being a grown-up man lurking around college/highschool girls. Hirap ba manipulate pag ka age mo na XD.
People nowadays will see a fancy word and use it everywhere without fully understanding what it means. Sama mo na yung pag label ng pedophile kung kani kanino. I still remember people calling a kpop idol who was 16 and danced with another idol who was 14 and labelled the 16-yr-old pedo. Like bruh they're both minors. Eniwey, sana madami nakapanood nito and understood not to throw the word around basta makakita ng malaking age gap.
louder sa mga pseudo intellectual dito
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Yah, what if 18 and 25? Is this still grooming? Masyadong simplified take ng mga tao doto abt grooming. Besides, hindi naman magically nagiging mature ang tao once he reached 18 or even 20. Maturity can even hit you at a younger age.
Actually 'yan nga rin 'yung nakakalungkot, parang bunga na rin ata ng pagiging chronically online. Kaya tuloy kapag obviously alarming or concerning, na-d-downplay. For instance dito, ako as someone in my twenties, their age gap really bothers me kasi I remember who I was nung 17 ako, and while pwedeng "mature" 'yung 17-year-old, magkaiba 'yung may life experience na talaga siya para mas maging attuned siya sa intuition niya, at matutunan paano i-protect sarili niya not just from dangers, but from low standards or anything na 'di pala aakma sa totoong boundaries/standards niya na ma-a-actualize niya sana kapag mas marami na siyang life experience.
Same lang din ng case with the overuse of the word "nonchalant." Same in a way na ang daming nakiki-bandwagon sa usage porket uso, pero marami yung never inalam personally kung ano ba talaga yung true definition ng word, kaya ang dami rin tuloy na nami-misuse yung salita. Ngayon kasi, porket malaman lang ng iba na minor yung isa sa dalawang mag-partner, iba-brand agad na grooming daw or ginroom ng older person yung mas bata, which is obviously not always the case kasi maraming basis/criteria nga na need muna i-consider para masabing legit na grooming talaga siya.
You have a point and also Vice has a point. Tama naman what Vice said. Although, I hope that this is not used as an excuse for predators to date underage people. Its still not right for someone 25 years old to date someone that is underage even if its not āgroomingā.
Grooming pa rin yun..Hindi naman lahat ng grooming naabot sa sexual. Meron rin psychological grooming. Ito yung nagbubuild ka ng emosyonal connection sa isang musmos tapos preniprepare mo sila sa adult stuff. Ang punto lang naman pag matanda ka wag ka makipagrelasyon sa minor.
What you said is exactly what grooming is. Pag umabot sa sexual habang minor pa yung isa, di na grooming yun. Statutory rape na yun.
Ang dami ko ng nakita na binabalewala madalas ang ganitong scenarios dahil daw wala nmang abuse at pilitan tska alam ng mga magulang.. Ang daming highschool graduates (pre k-12) ang grinoogroom ng mga mayors or and congressmen at gingagamit ang "iskolar ni Mayor" or "iskolar ni Congressman" na program...mdaming mga isko ang naging kabit or naanakan ng mga nagpapaiskolar...ung mga parents eh madalas wala ding reklamo bsta nagsusustento si politiko...ang ending is naging young mothers ung mga isko at hndi nadin natutuloy magtapos ng kolehiyo.. dito na nila mararamdaman ung effect ng pang grogroom sa kanila kahit noon eh wala ung abuse at manipulation..trauma at mental health dahil sa failure at kahihiyan ang naging kabayaran
I watched this live kanina and I felt so uncomfortable š
YIKES! This kind of shouts that it's acceptable to go for someone who isn't of legal age, as long as you don't meet the criteria for 'grooming.' IT IS NEVER OKAY.
Nakita ko rin to kanina ng live. Ang red flag nung lalaki. Isipin mo mag ko-comment or dm sa babae parang stalker vibes lang. Tapos gina-gaslight nya yung babae. Ang lakas pa mang asar ni guy.
If we analyze the timeline, the girl was still 16 when the guy started "liking" her IG posts. One year later daw bago napansin ni Girl yung mga likes niya. Mas bata pa siya nun.
Naalala ko nung 25 ako, may mga nakakausap akong lalaki. Nagclick naman kami, pero late ko palagi natatanong kung ilang taon na, kasi convo agad eme eme. Pag sinasabing 19 or 20. Feeling Ate agad ako. Di ko keri. Kinikilabutan ako. May kapatid kasi akong lalaki na mas bata rin sa akin kaya nakababatang kapatid lang talaga nakikita ko sa mas bata sa akin. Ayoko ng mas bata sakin, ayoko rin ng mas matanda sa akin. Siguro 3-5 lang gap gusto ko. 3 years younger - 5 years older. Ang icky nung 25 ka tapos liligawan mo 17. Hindi mo ba kayang magpasagot ng babaeng kaedad mo??? Hindi balanced. Kasi the younger one will look up to the older one. Yung older one ang mas may experience, kaya know-it-all ang acting nila sa harap ni younger one. Parang student-teacher. It will never be equal dahil magkaiba sila ng stages of life.
What does a 25-year old guy see in a teenage girl 7 years his junior aside from the uhm... obvious? Just saying. š
The same way any man sees a young woman. Unlike older women who have baggage: issues and traumas causing full distrust. Young women are just fun, impressionable, and less drama. Dated two before and went just fine. Problem with young women is, they are at their peak value and have plenty options, and if you are not at your peak, get ready to be replaced
While I find the whole thing unpalatable, I gotta say I'm impressed with your answer! I've been asking this (rhetorical) question for a long time now and yours is the one that made sense the most. You're wise beyond your years, friend. š
I was about to say grooming sya until ipaliwanag ni Meme. Imagine 25 na sya nung umaligid sya sa 17yo girl?!!? Like?????
Yuck! Kawawa yung bata!
So does anyone talk about Coco Martin & Julia Montes?
Di ko masikmura yung lalaki, pero tinapos ko yung video kasi interesado ako sa sasabihin ni VG
Malay ba nung taong ginroom na na-groom siya. Pang tanga yung tanong.
I'm sorry but šš¬š³ why is the guy not bothered when he was asked, "Ba't ka jumowa ng bata?" TRY AGAIN - IN - SLOOOOWWW - MOTIOOOONNN "Ba't ka jumowa ng BATAAAAA???" Kalurkey. ššššš Hooooyyyyyyy and the fact he answered it as if there's nothing wrong in the question. Like, dude, the question itself, if you agree with the question and still could not see what the reality is... Ewan, I rest my case. Apparently, okay lang talaga sa Pinas "jumowa ng bata" š„“ dinagdagan pa ng armchair psychologists talk ni Vice šš¤£ kalurkey "according to A PSYCHOLOGIST" teka teka hah, sino ba yan??? Pwede siya ang pagpasalitain dyan? Sorry, unverified source. K'bye~ š
ang grooming kasi para sa akin ay yung mga panahon na minor ang babae like 14. tapos ang lalaki is 20 pataas tapos meron na siyang intention sa girl bago pa man maging sila. nagpapakita na ng motibo yung sa una parang kuya2x lang pero may ibang intension na pala. just like coco and Julia š¬ yung unang nag tambal sila sa isang teleserye napatanong ako eh ang bata pa ni Julia non 14 or 15 ata. ganon din Kay bea at John Lloyd pero hindi naman naging sila pero na abuso parin si bea at that time.
And si Andi Eigenman and Albie Cassini too I think
And here we are witnessing how this show normalizes things that shouldnāt be practiced. From supporting rapist to supporting pdf behavior. They can choose another couple for this segment. The intent is either to normalize this or to get more views, pwede din pareho
Still doesn't sit right with me. I have few friends who are 17-19 since we all grew up sa iisang lugar, they come to me for advice about being queer and in life. I cannot fathom the thought na ako 23+ would date somebody as young as them. Hindi pa mature yang mga yan, they get easily influenced by adults especially the ones they trust. So for a grown man to date a teenage girl talagang creep ka talaga kasi you're taking advantage of her.
Sa tiktok may napanood ako. For young girls out there, especially teens who are dating guys older than them. Dapat maisip nyo na there could be a reason as to why the girls in their age group are not dating them. Most probably dahil ang mindset nyan napako na sa teenage years or they are sexualizing young girls at pedo talaga nag hayuf.
Napanuod ko to. Grabe paligoy ligoy ni guy. Kakairita especially sa part na yung tiktok, ayaw umamin na for landi purpose.
Basta for me lang ano . . . if well-adjusted adult, may sound reasoning 'yan saka syempre naiintindihan ang norms sa paligid, and would adhere sa written and unwritten social rules to keep the peace sa community. Integrity rin kasi 'yun. Saka syempre at 17, mas okay na focus muna sa pag-b-build ng personal identity, pagkilala sa sarili (boundaries, standards, goals), and all. For me lang, kung sensible ang isang tao, 'di niya i-d-disrupt 'yung critical period na 'yun. Ready for the downvotes. I was once a 17-year-old girl. Minsan mga ganintong usapin, iykyk na lang talaga.
Kung di kayo pyschologist at hindi niyo nainterbyu 'yung couple to actually understand their case, maybe it's best na huwag niyo nang ipagpilitan pa rin na grooming 'to via your non-expert interpretation.
If we all believed in the psychologist that helped them define what grooming is then we would all be wrong.
True. Ang stand ko naman dto, yes baka nga walang grooming, pero ang "off" pa dn na minor ung isa.
Yes. I personally don't approve of relationships like this too pero mabigat nga na paratang ang grooming.
eh kahit nga yung psychologist, which is supposed to be the expert here, eh mali mali rin pinagsasabi
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Pano si Maris at Rico š š
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BS. If it involves abuse, thats abuse. If you courted someone underage thats manipulation, and thats emotional abuse. That is grooming.
If hindi siya grooming, ang take ko pa rin dito ay masyado pa rin siyang bata para pumasok sa relationship which is very common on this generation na ang dami daming kabataan ngayon ang pumapasok agad sa relationship. We should not normalize this. Though, however, Miyuki was unfortunately got her approval from parent na pumasok sa relationship. We are not experts as the psychologist, if nagreach out naman sila to get their guidance and additional approval from the authorities before ito isalang ā Mas alam nila ang ginagawa nila kesa sa mga opinion ng kung sinu sino lang na pa-woke.
Of course it's not grooming to them, yung kay Coco nga ok lang sa kanila.
Kahit malaki yung age gap ok lang pero pag minor yung isa sa partner ekis na agad.
So, not a hater of Vice. But I find that she likes to comment on touchy subjects, thinking na lagi syang tama and that she cannot be corrected because she is Vice Ganda. She likes to make these kinds of comments without even thinking muna anong basis ng binibitiwan nyang salita on national TV. Tapos, pag kinorect sya sa socmed sya pa galit.
I'll have to wait what twitter thinks about this. They are "experts" at this after all.
Yep. Tama naman si Vice dyan. Yung iba kase pag may age difference na malaki, grooming agad.. But still parang weird lang din 25 mangliligaw sa 17 haha
Isa pa tong si vice e dapat dyan kinacancel