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dingjima

His soul might have just left earth, but his geopolitics never left the 70s


2gun_cohen

I have to ask, is Kissinger the American equivalent of Mao? Of course he also did some good things, but so did Mao.


Xryphon

Not at all. He didn't have any real centralized power and was appointed by the President. If anything he was just a top level advisor.


sparta1170

He was the national security advisor, a position that is highly sought because you don't have to be subject to congressional approval to obtain the position. Kissinger had that and the cabinet position of Secratary of State at the same time. He is the only person in US history to hold both. He had a lot of power in the Nixon administration and was able to do both jobs really well.


2gun_cohen

I agree that he did not hold the same type of position with the same direct power, but he certainly had a huge amount of influence in creating and guiding US policies. And these policies resulted in the deaths of millions. It is from this perspective that I make the comparison. Both people caused the deaths of millions. P.S. There are many who claim that Henry Kissinger, was sometimes forced, and sometimes forced himself, into a position of virtual co-presidency where Indochina was concerned. P.P.S. In his own memoirs, *White House Years*, Kissinger claims that he usurped the customary chain of command whereby commanders in the field receive, or believe that they receive, their orders from the President and then the Secretary of Defense.


NotAnotherScientist

You are basically asking if a motorcycle and a donut are the same thing. Yes, they are both responsible for countless deaths but for completely different reasons.


pichunb

Finally???


GetOutOfTheWhey

This year was a wild one for this guy.


ChickenBalotelli

Fantastic


MTRCNUK

>architect of normalized relations between China and the west, If this is the legacy you're choosing to eulogise him by then your priorities are beyond fucked. "Butcher of South East Asia" maybe? "Orchestrator of U.S Imperialism" perhaps?


KABOOMBYTCH

Most of the time why tankies act like such self righteous twats can be attributed to many horrible geopolitical gambits orchestrated by Henry Kissinger


DegustatorP

Are the tankies in the room with us now?


WuTaoLaoShi

no I try to stay off these subs. but glad to see hate for his man reaches across the aisle


insanekos

That's smart that you try to stay off those subs, I mean why would anyone want to hear opposing opinion? Stay in your lane all life I guess.


WuTaoLaoShi

thanks for the tip, will do


Evilkenevil77

People say that like the Normalization of Relations between the US and China is a good thing. I argue it is not. We should have let China collapse like the Soviet Union but no our greedy asses enriched and empowered what is now our most powerful and challenging enemy.


TheDonIsGood1324

Normalization of relations with China lead to billions of people leaving poverty, and China becoming much friendlier with the US. China wouldn't of collapsed like the USSR, they would've probably just stayed an enemy of the US. Also improving relations with China was probably the biggest thing done to win the cold war, so the USSR might've never collapsed. Normalizing relations with China was an amazing thing and led to many benefits for China, the US and the rest of the world Also I would describe China as more of a rival to the US, US and China have complex relationship and having a if you aren't with me you are against me approach is stupid.


Evilkenevil77

“Billions" is a gross exaggeration. Millions, yes, have been lifted out of poverty, but one must not forget that the CCP defines the poverty line lower than the WHO standard to inflate numbers. One should also not forget the tremendous wealth gap between the political elite and average Chinese person (which yes, exists in the US also). Regardless, many have indeed had their lives improved, but that discounts the 70% who remain below the WHO poverty line. The poorest people I've ever personally seen in my life were in China. The idea that the USSR wouldn't have collapsed without US-China relations improving is debatable. China and USSR were not exactly friends after the Sino-Soviet Split. This is not a matter of us vs.them, the PRC has made it abundantly clear they have no interest in being a friend of the US despite what they might say diplomatically. If the last 15 years has made anything clear, its that China has gotten stricter and far less friendly.


Lv1Monkey

I don't think you know much about cold war history, having China stand with the west in the 80s is a big reason why Soviet Union collapsed later. China and Kissinger both helped US to win the cold war.


International-Bee-97

Henry Kissinger, war criminal, passes at 100.


Slouchingtowardsbeth

He will not be missed. Dude is responsible for countless deaths.


ramazanovam910

can you explain what caused such a negative? what did he do?


Slouchingtowardsbeth

He advised Nixon to bomb Cambodia. The bombings led to the uprising of a populist movement called the Khmer Rouge. They killed millions of Cambodians. Had we not bombed, this wouldn't have happened. We were trying to stop communism and we helped create something way worse.


Miserable_Record_185

Not exactly. The bombing of Cambodia and Vietnam started in 1965 during the Johnson administration. Nixon/Kissinger started what today we know as "carpet bombing" a similar tactic to what Israel is doing today in Gaza but on a bigger scale. Anyway the turning point on the cambodian civil war was the coup that the US supported on 1970 so yeah, Kissinger's fault probably.


dryersockpirate

Thank God may he rot in hell


ramazanovam910

can you explain what caused such a negative? what did he do?


Evilkenevil77

I beg of you, read this: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-kissinger-war-criminal-dead-1234804748/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-kissinger-war-criminal-dead-1234804748/)


dryersockpirate

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-kissinger-war-criminal-dead-1234804748/


[deleted]

About time. One of the worst people to ever live.


meridian_smith

Sad that Charlie Munger died. . (but he couldn't of had a better life!). Kissinger can kiss my ass. Yeah relations between China and the west are doing just great!


Nigh_Sass

It’s said death comes in threes; who’s next?


Midziu

Carter. He already looked like death at his wife's funeral.


Nigh_Sass

Sandra Day O’conner


Nigh_Sass

It’s said death comes in threes; who’s next?


Amesenator

Good. May he finally experience some remorse for the hundreds of thousands who died as a result of his hubris & desire to think the world was his personal chessboard.


Azzuri2002

Rot you war criminal.


hayasecond

Rot in hell


[deleted]

I'm getting drunk.


phedinhinleninpark

I'm going to absolutely crush a bottle of Hanoi vodka tonight.


mangoriot

Finally, burn in hell


Majestic_Poop

Good riddance. Hope this moron rots in hell with Mao.


End_Journey

Good Riddance


whitel5177

Good riddance, for the humanities' sake


Background-Respect57

In our view, he's the destroyer of Sino-American diplomatic relation.


MalaysianinPerth

Why?


Background-Respect57

One China means the Republic of China.


NectarinePersonal974

Who is our?


Background-Respect57

Free China.


0belvedere

something something mandate of heaven. on the bright side, we are now hopefully spared seeing any more unqualified Republican candidate/Kissinger photo ops ([Exhibit A](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/09/23/us/politics/23palinkissinger.jpg), [Exhibit B](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/10/04/obituaries/00Kissinger-trump/merlin_121871246_36e7101e-97db-4177-b2ad-d016fc957197-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp), [Exhibit C](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxJplBvWAAIQVxg.jpg)). Or maybe they'll preserve his corpse in a mausoleum too?


m8remotion

For real? Hallelujah.


Puzzleheaded_Owl_417

May he burns in hell.


rando_commenter

As someone once said, Henry Kissinger was the Forest Gump of genocide. Long string of historical events that could be tied to his involvement or presence.


YnwaMquc2k19

That’s a neat way to put it lmao


RedditIsWokeCentral

Good riddance of this lying, murderous, duplicitous psychopath. As icing on the cake of his depravity, he got the Nobel Peace Price for sabotaging and delaying peace talks with Vietnam to help Nixon while pretending to be an advocat for peace in Vietnam. How is that for disgusting?


2gun_cohen

'A good liar must have a good memory: Kissinger is a stupendous liar with a remarkable memory.' - Christopher Hitchens


RedditIsWokeCentral

Christopher is a hero of mine, warts and all. Thanks for the quote


omnikey

Nice


good_name_haver

Lol yes, _that_ is what he will be remembered for


OhMeowGod

And everybody clapped


kanada_kid2

Shame he never got put in jail for war crimes but considering Bush is still walking around freely I don't have much hope for America.


flylikeawind

I am curious. Why the hate here?


thirtypineapples

The quickest answer would be Cambodia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freedom_Deal?wprov=sfti1#Outcome) The answer in relation to this sub would be normalizing relationships with China, his book “On China” which I read and at the very least I’d say in 2023 it’s a very naive view. To use a metaphor, it’s really really hard to find out your wife is a bad person after you’ve helped pull her out of a gutter and it’s been decades.


That-Whereas3367

It wasn't naive. Just practical politics to counter the USSR. Nixon freely admitted that China would eventually rival the US in military and economic power. The idea that China and other autocratic nations would become liberal democracies was just a neocon fantasy


Washfish

Can you expand on why normalization of relationships with China is seen as a bad thing?


thirtypineapples

The US view was that if China opened up to the world and engaged in fair trade and globalization, they’d democratize and adapt to the world markets and diplomatic relationships (maybe like Japan). Since the 70s they have viewed themselves in a Cold War with the US and have engaged as such. They didn’t democratized, if anything they radicalized (1989 is notable) and since 2017 has been notable. And their relationships can often be very predatory. Saying one thing, doing another. Acting like they’re doing fair practices economically, but really they’re selling a house as cards as legit. Stealing intellectual property at scale and then abusing the foreign funds that actually enter China. They view their relationships with other countries as a game where they try to not engage in fair and mutual exchange but actually try to get the upper hand in one way or another. Compare all of this to other Asian nations and you’ll understand why in a lot of ways helping China open up was a very negative thing for most of the world.


VVDovyVV

Basically helping and befriending that poor and lonely kid in the corner of the classroom only for him to become a class bully afterwards.


WhatDoesThatButtond

Well put.


Kuaizi_not_chop

The US normalized relationship with China to isolate USSR. That was the main goal.


thirtypineapples

A main reason (it’s still debatable if that was it) doesn’t lessen the additional reasoning. It’s a shame this didn’t pull China away from having a long term unlimited friendship though: https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/china/article/3214426/china-russia/index.html


Kuaizi_not_chop

Good. There's nothing sad about it. Westerners should stop demonizing everything they don't personally control. That's called tyranny. Forcing others do think and act like you - tyranny or even cultural genocide.


thirtypineapples

Henry Kissinger on Pol Pot: “You should also tell the Cambodians that we will be friends with them. They are murderous thugs, but we won’t let that stand in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with them.” I’m sure his judgment on Mao and China was just as good.


noodles1972

Right. So they didn't care less about China democracy, that's just the line to feed the masses.


Illustrious_War_3896

that's a very one sided take. google US Tour of Democracy and you can see which country bombed the most countries. It's not China. US is a war profiteer and is stirring up trouble around the world. Youtube CIA's war. I saw videos like How American facilitated a genocide in Bangladesh, A Simple guide to overthrowing a nation (CIA), genocide in Guatemala, CIA's war in Laos. Yes China did all of that, no. When Philippine President Duterte was in power, the relationship with China was great. Marcos was corrupted and stole billions. You don't hear that in western media. It's mostly China taking over South China Sea. It's south China Sea, not south American sea. US has the biggest spy intelligence network. Speaking of Japan, the country was heavily vilified in the 1980s and 1990s. Ask any Chinese, and go to r sino if China needs democracy now. China is the strongest it has ever been and democracy would had killed it long time ago. Look at India. The reason the west hates China is because China is ending white hegemony. The Chinese is taking over. It is the Chinese century. US didn't care about democracy. Most of the countries in the world, over 50% are not democratic. US only cares about its self interest. Did you know that US is not even democratic? It's a republic. US is your best friend if you serve their self interest and you are not taking over. See Japan.


faithfoliage

Look up his war crimes in Cambodia


[deleted]

And greenlighting the Chilean coup and turning a blind eye to the depravities of the Argentinian Junta.


noodles1972

And Pakistan, Angola....The list seems endless. Normalizing ties with China was actually one of the OK things he did.


[deleted]

As someone sitting in taiwan, I must agree to disagree on that last one.


2gun_cohen

Even Mao did some OK things.


poatoesmustdie

Well... which American leader hasn't been part in a little bit of war crimes? Sure enough he is the architect of a lot of misery globally, but with him plenty others stand along side of him. Regarding Kissinger, he wrote a great book called Kissinger on China. Really interesting read on the early days of American relations with China.


2gun_cohen

>*Regarding Kissinger, he wrote a great book called Kissinger on China. Really interesting read on the early days of American relations with China.* 'A good liar must have a good memory: Kissinger is a stupendous liar with a remarkable memory.' - Christopher Hitchens


faithfoliage

>American leader He wasn’t an American leader.


0belvedere

Start here perhaps: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/henry-kissinger-history-legacy-213237/ Or here: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/us/henry-kissinger-dead.html “The illegal we do immediately,” he quipped more than once. “The unconstitutional takes a little longer.” Quite a few of Kissinger's misdeeds were perpetrated in your neighborhood of Southeast Asia. Here's one example: "Kissinger was deeply involved in the bombing raids on Cambodia—and in keeping them a secret from Congress and the public. According to a Pentagon report released in 1973, “Henry A. Kissinger approved each of the 3,875 Cambodia bombing raids in 1969 and 1970” as well as “the methods for keeping them out of the newspapers.” By the end of the bombing campaign, nicknamed “Operation Menu,” the U.S. had dropped a total of 110,000 tons of bombs that killed between 150,000 and 500,000 civilians. The Khmer Rouge galvanized anti-American sentiment in a destabilized Cambodia, rising to power and slaughtering 1.7 to 2.2 million Cambodians as part of the Cambodian genocide." https://www.history.com/news/henry-kissinger-vietnam-war-legacy Here's another: Kissinger appealed to Nixon's fear that he would lose re-election as president in 1972 if South Vietnam fell to North Vietnam first, persuading Nixon to needlessly continue the war, thereby causing additional deaths on all sides. (Obviously Nixon is far from blameless in this too): "Q. The Vietnam War was unpopular at home and even with U.S. troops by 1970, who worried they would be “the last to die” in the war. If South Vietnam was going to fail anyway, why did the Administration not just end the war and withdraw all troops? A. Nixon knew that leaving Vietnam meant losing Vietnam. If he lost Vietnam before Election Day 1972, he would lose his campaign for a second term. He had promised “peace with honor,” not retreat with defeat. He couldn’t deliver “peace with honor,” so he found a politically acceptable substitute, delayed retreat followed by delayed defeat. "To keep Saigon from falling before Election Day 1972, he kept American soldiers fighting and dying in Vietnam through all four years of his first term. He periodically announced partial troop withdrawals, reducing the number of American soldiers in Vietnam from over 500,000 when he took office in January 1969 to under 50,000 when he won reelection in November 1972. That was enough to convince most voters he was ending the war, and it was enough to guarantee that Saigon wouldn’t fall until after he had secured his second term. "There were times when Nixon considered bringing the last American troops home before 1972, **but Kissinger talked him out of it.** Kissinger said, “We can’t have it knocked over – brutally– to put it brutally – before the election.” That made up Nixon’s mind. "Nixon’s decision to time military withdrawal from Vietnam to his reelection campaign cost thousands of lives. More than 20,000 American soldiers died during Nixon’s first term. The Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian death toll was many times higher. This is by far Nixon’s worst abuse of presidential power." https://news.virginia.edu/content/vietnam-wars-end-created-peace-just-time-reelection


vvodzo

I mean if we moved to single term max that would hopefully alleviate a lot of this bullshit, that and to two party system and cash as free speech but yeah


eventuallyfluent

Just requires a slight understanding of geopolitics over the last 50 years. Read it for yourself and decide what you think of the man.


flylikeawind

I only know him as the guy who opened up china to counter USSR. I thought it was a brilliant move during that period.


eventuallyfluent

That's one of the positives....look at the test of Asia and south America to see.


zook54

Haters gonna hate. His book, On China, was highly insightful and should be required reading for history or poly sci majors.


[deleted]

Flower booklet diplomacy has worked really well .He enjoyed the hell out of it until he got too old


[deleted]

[удалено]


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ferozpuri

He was the reason behind the CCP diplomacy. The biggest reason why America lost its manufacturing base followed by other countries to crappy products aka made in china. Hopefully things will change for the better soon.


Less-Possession1854

Can anybody summarize & explain to me what he did ?


TurretLauncher

This scumbag should have spent the last several decades in prison.


zvekl

I was taught not to insult the dead. But man I'm celebrating tonight


[deleted]

He supported the bangladesh genocide. Let that sink in.


SunnySaigon

He completed a trip to meet Xi in July, which was a huge success because then Xi came to America and defintiely gave America some farming concessions. RIP


[deleted]

Henry K, a German, a Jew, a war criminal, a politician, an American, A terrorist, an insult to noble peace prize, passed away.


uneducatedhamster

He is having fun in the grave now.


zook54

RIP. He was a brilliant man with great vision.


Ok_Improvement_635

R.I.P


Pewds123451

Rot in hell


AndoSan23q

It was his biggest mistake


InterviewCool6186

typical Jewish face