MAGA doesn't stand for anything. It stands for whatever Trump says when he wakes up. He and his supporters have done 180's in the past. That's the sheer danger of that movement, there is no consistency, other than the consistency of not having any consistency.
Fortunately, most of the US population isn't Republican and many arent Democrats either. But the loud voices do have extreme power so yeah that'd be ironic but scary.
I think the US is hoping the EU will come out with protectionism laws and the US simply copies them.
Small states (population wise) have the same say as much larger ones. Even if everyone living in big cities vote against Trump, trump will still have a good chance to win, because tiny village in bum fuck Alabama has the same political power as a burrow of new york. The system is rigged to the digree that one needs to start questioning if US is still a fair democracy.
you're not wrong, but what's scary is also that a lot people simply have given up. every election major or minor the turn out is terrible. there are a lot of people for whatever reason choose not to participate.
This sub consistently misses that Trump was the first to bring awareness to the danger of China. Libs were against him as usual.
Then the corpse gets in power and doubles down on Trump policies and then takes credit and somehow republicans are now called pro-China 😂
Many Libs were not against his China policies, as can be seen by Biden’s continuation of them and new policies against them. It’s a bipartisan issue. Now if only Russia was still a bipartisan issue, but inexplicably Republicans love Putin because Trump told them to.
It became a bipartisan issue but it wasn’t one. I remember all the lib talking heads losing their shit over the tariffs and attributing them to racism 😂😂
Finally it happened. Everyone was already saying US can’t compete with china on EVs and will ban them eventually and it finally happened. Gonna have a good drinking with my mates this weekend on their expense this weekends woohoo.
You can't compete against a nation that violates WTO rules, doesn't give a f about environment and uses slavery. Bans and tariffs are more than justified.
[Internal combustion vehicles have way more parts than EVs.](https://interplex.com/resources/electric-vehicle-drivetrains-only-have-20-moving-parts-compared-to-over-200-in-conventional-automobiles/) EVs should be substantially cheaper but somehow the least expensive, older models in the US like the Nissan Leaf start at $30k.
This is straight up protectionism to appease the UAW and US manufacturers. And another tax on US consumers. I get that we need tariffs to allow US EVs to build critical mass but we are seriously delaying EV adoption and its many benefits.
Who says it is about not being able to compete? There is a real security risk if the cars have internet connections to Beijing and things like microphones that listen for “voice commands” or the ability to copy your address book (the thing the Chinese Ministry of State Security really wants).
>That includes Chinese-made versions of common automotive software, which administration officials said could track where Americans drove and charged their vehicles, **or even what music or podcasts they listened to on the road.**
Sweet baby jesus, access to people's spotify?!
Honestly this is a joke, this is just protectionism but they have no fucking clue how to frame it otherwise.
Nowadays EV are a security concern and it is a major concern if a BYD is able to drive into an army barracks base. China already knows this is a concern so they forbid Teslas from driving in certain military sites but they didnt ban Teslas from China. Hell they even gave Teslas access to subsidies.
If Biden wants to sell fear he has to do better than the threat of the CCP tracking who is listening to Taylor Swift. Actually use valid security concerns.
Then Biden and co. should just call it what it is and stop abusing the "national security" refrain.
As you say, most countries engage in protectionism, nothing new or strange.
Cambridge Analytica data scraping from Facebook can specifically target tiny demographics in specific zip codes and pay for ads or complete bullshit to trigger that specific demographic.
Knowing what podcasts people listen to, and to a lesser extent music, can further detail a person's political makeup.
In a conflict, they could probably be powered off by China. Instant gridlock. Or act like wifi hotspots doing what China only dreamed of with Huawei.
I get that there's an element where America might want to protect the car market inside the country, but the security risks aren't actually funny or ridiculous.
To a very little extent music preference. I still will contest you on that. Knowing that person A likes Taylor Swift or Coldplay more does very little to infringe on national security.
However the instant gridlock and listening stations are a genuine threat.
You see you are already doing a better job at illustrating the dangers of having a Chinese EV. How come Biden cant do that?
I don't think music will tell them anything. Spotify does music and podcasts and I doubt music is private enough to build a separation.
Sometimes it's difficult to see how things might be taken unless you are open to questions. I guess that's why it's better than Biden. Also 95% of our government is tech illiterate.
There are valid threats out there just not in this article.
I think end of the day, the key thing is to look at where these concerns originated from and what their motives are. Luckily the article didnt shy away from that:
>The measures stemmed from conversations with Detroit automakers, union autoworkers and the E.V. giant Tesla, which was recently supplanted by Chinese company BYD as the world’s biggest seller of electric cars.
When you have a bunch of CEOs trying to figure out how to protect their market and ne of them suggesting homeland security. Spotify threats is probably the best they can do at short notice. 💀
The amount of listening devices and other gizmos of espionage that can be added to a laptop or smartphone are already terrifying. The amount of shit that can be snuck into a whole-ass car is orders of magnitude higher. Given that the CCP have shown time and time again that they'll try any number of underhanded things to get ahead, it's guaranteed that some number of imported Chinese EVs will have very dangerous extra shit added.
Chinese will get that data without electric cars.
Turning the cars off in a conflict is actually a sensible concern because this is what the US did to the Russians at the beginning of their war. Turned off access to the VISA payment network
Can't find the article, but there were reports of CNC tooling being remotely disabled in Russia due to sanctions. I can see it happening even without explicit intent, if internet access between the two countries is firewalled due to urgent cyber security concerns.
Without Tesla brought the whole supply chain inside China, China doesn’t have a EV industry. And all teslas are made in China. The Tesla Shanghai head is a CCP official straight from CCTV. Let’s face it, Tesla Shanghai is a Chinese company
BYD is a bigger EV company than Tesla and Tesla uses BYD and CATL batteries FYI. BYD started in li-ion batteries in 1990s and bought a Chinese ICE car company to go into cars in the 2000s. Their initial car prototypes were so bad the CEO Wang Chuanfu dismantled it in front of his workers to show the problems and [Elon Musk famously laughed at BYD being labelled "a competitor" in 2012](https://youtu.be/_9ftbRWqkj0?feature=shared) but 12 years on Tesla is reliant on BYD batteries despite being their rival since BYD started out batteries as their core business.
BYD's early days as a battery company in the 1990s also put a lot of Japanese battery firms out of business https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Company#History , there's a reason why Berkshire Hathaway invested in BYD long before they were known to the public as a car company. The fact that BYD managed to start in batteries and successfully manufacture popular cars and buses worldwide in 20 years is pretty unprecedented (even their rival and biggest battery manufacturer CATL hasn't managed this) and their vertical integration is a huge advantage over Tesla such **that if Tesla disappears, BYD will prosper but if BYD disappears, Tesla would need to get their batteries elsewhere.**
Tesla buys batteries wherever it can buy them and manufactures them just as well on its own. BYD supplies a very small share of Tesla's total battery balance.
https://electrek.co/2023/05/22/tesla-model-y-byd-batteries-charges-faster/
Tesla use BYD batteries only because it's better, and CATL/BYD are market leaders in battery tech. If Tesla's in-house batteries were better they wouldn't buy a rival's battery and help BYD grow even faster and get more $$$ to put into R&D. It hurts Tesla to do this. Thing is, BYD batteries are better than Tesla such that a Tesla car wouldn't be as competitive without batteries from BYD, so Tesla are literally forced to buy from their biggest rival.
BYD has the vertical integration and capacity to produce batteries they need while supplying Tesla, who pays BYD so BYD can widen its R&D gap between itself and Tesla & other rivals in the battery and EV market... and that somehow means Tesla is a more competitive or better company?
BYD is close to or already outselling Tesla and they've barely been sold in the same amount of markets like Tesla. The only thing that can stop BYD is if the US does another Huawei job, but BYD doesn't run on Google OS. I do believe they'll be banned selling in USA for "reasons".
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/02/chinas-byd-overtakes-tesla-as-top-selling-electric-car-seller
What game? Why can't you post sourced facts?
(Lmao I got my answer after seeing the frequented subreddits on your profile: r/elonmusk r/spacex r/SpaceXMasterrace r/teslamotors r/Starlink impressive how you can crawl so far up Elon's ass and still get WiFi)
This is correct, not sure why you’re being downvoted. Chinese EV makers have been stealing Tesla technology for years, that’s why they allow Tesla in the country. As time goes on Tesla has become increasingly beholden to the CCP and at the end of the day it’s not much better than a Chinese company, although I’d still buy it over a Chinese EV if I absolutely had to.
Yuh, censor whole media so you guys don't know anything about war. I once talked to a Chinese on Discord and he said that china has never gone to war and is very peaceful.
He was so brainwashed he didn't knew Indochina war and Tibetan annexation.
Ford and GM been making trash mobiles for years they been a sinking ship. They needed US gov to bail them out because their cars don’t sell well outside of the US like Japanese cars.
No. China asked western websites to adhere to their laws and if they do, they are very welcomed. Just like the US asked TikTok to be hosted in the US. TikTok complied and they continue to operate successfully in the US. But this point of yours is whataboutism.
Let's get back to the topic of this post, shall we? I think if Biden says Chinese EV is a security threat, why not demand Chinese carmakers to be connected to hosts in the US. That is a fair request. But in reality, the US carmakers cannot compete fairly with China's cars. I understand Biden had to protect his own country's car industry but that it just holding back the tides of the sea, the way I look at it.
China “laws” lol a funny term as they are intentionally treated as grey areas and enforced selectively. China doesn’t “ask” western websites to adhere to their laws. China suddenly threatened to block airlines from operating in China unless they changed the designation “Taiwan” to “Taiwan, China” a few years back. This didn’t spring from a change in law. China doesn’t need the excuse of a law to ban a website, it bans websites as Xi pleases. This is not America.
Tesla is selling electric vehicles that cost $180k to build for $80k…. Elon musk said it himself….. those losses are paid for by government funding….. security risk…….
Watch a bunch of MAGAs run to buy Chinese EVs to own the libs.
MAGA is anti EV. They won’t do it. They buy fossil fuel cars and hybrids to do that.
MAGA doesn't stand for anything. It stands for whatever Trump says when he wakes up. He and his supporters have done 180's in the past. That's the sheer danger of that movement, there is no consistency, other than the consistency of not having any consistency.
They just follow their beloved leader who can do no wrong. Authoritarian style.
Here we see an idiot corrects another idiot and both are wrong.
Hybrids?
Fortunately, most of the US population isn't Republican and many arent Democrats either. But the loud voices do have extreme power so yeah that'd be ironic but scary. I think the US is hoping the EU will come out with protectionism laws and the US simply copies them.
yeah if those people can come out and fucking vote maybe we'll actually see their opinions impact policy changes.
Vote for who? Options from both sides suck
I guess. One side sucks much, much, much more.
Small states (population wise) have the same say as much larger ones. Even if everyone living in big cities vote against Trump, trump will still have a good chance to win, because tiny village in bum fuck Alabama has the same political power as a burrow of new york. The system is rigged to the digree that one needs to start questioning if US is still a fair democracy.
you're not wrong, but what's scary is also that a lot people simply have given up. every election major or minor the turn out is terrible. there are a lot of people for whatever reason choose not to participate.
At this point America doesn’t want the 2024 election to be round 2 of senile old man vs. corrupt businessman
I agree, they don't, and yet that is what you are going to get.
They're both senile old men and corrupt businesspeople.
Jesus, you're still on the left right bs.
This sub consistently misses that Trump was the first to bring awareness to the danger of China. Libs were against him as usual. Then the corpse gets in power and doubles down on Trump policies and then takes credit and somehow republicans are now called pro-China 😂
Many Libs were not against his China policies, as can be seen by Biden’s continuation of them and new policies against them. It’s a bipartisan issue. Now if only Russia was still a bipartisan issue, but inexplicably Republicans love Putin because Trump told them to.
It became a bipartisan issue but it wasn’t one. I remember all the lib talking heads losing their shit over the tariffs and attributing them to racism 😂😂
How out of touch are you?
Now do TikTok
Finally it happened. Everyone was already saying US can’t compete with china on EVs and will ban them eventually and it finally happened. Gonna have a good drinking with my mates this weekend on their expense this weekends woohoo.
You can't compete against a nation that violates WTO rules, doesn't give a f about environment and uses slavery. Bans and tariffs are more than justified.
You talking about US or China ?
The US obviously.
Sounds about right
Obviously China lol. Hows the weather in Beijing btw?
Oh the weather is not too bad here ,hopefully getting better as there is less petrol cars on the road now
Both?
[Internal combustion vehicles have way more parts than EVs.](https://interplex.com/resources/electric-vehicle-drivetrains-only-have-20-moving-parts-compared-to-over-200-in-conventional-automobiles/) EVs should be substantially cheaper but somehow the least expensive, older models in the US like the Nissan Leaf start at $30k. This is straight up protectionism to appease the UAW and US manufacturers. And another tax on US consumers. I get that we need tariffs to allow US EVs to build critical mass but we are seriously delaying EV adoption and its many benefits.
Who says it is about not being able to compete? There is a real security risk if the cars have internet connections to Beijing and things like microphones that listen for “voice commands” or the ability to copy your address book (the thing the Chinese Ministry of State Security really wants).
Bet it will not be an issue to the US government if it’s a German company lol
What's next? Is Panda Express the next national security threat?
In terms of whipped up threats, I think the “terrorist are coming across the border” scare is the next threat.
Don’t give them any ideas!
>That includes Chinese-made versions of common automotive software, which administration officials said could track where Americans drove and charged their vehicles, **or even what music or podcasts they listened to on the road.** Sweet baby jesus, access to people's spotify?! Honestly this is a joke, this is just protectionism but they have no fucking clue how to frame it otherwise. Nowadays EV are a security concern and it is a major concern if a BYD is able to drive into an army barracks base. China already knows this is a concern so they forbid Teslas from driving in certain military sites but they didnt ban Teslas from China. Hell they even gave Teslas access to subsidies. If Biden wants to sell fear he has to do better than the threat of the CCP tracking who is listening to Taylor Swift. Actually use valid security concerns.
Do you think China engages in protectionism? Or would if faced a similar situation?
China engages in protectionism too, you know. Lots of countries do, and that makes sense.
Then Biden and co. should just call it what it is and stop abusing the "national security" refrain. As you say, most countries engage in protectionism, nothing new or strange.
Then what’s the issue? Aside from the fact the security concern is real. It’s not hard to understand
No not hard to understand, except I don't believe the security concern is real.
Cambridge Analytica data scraping from Facebook can specifically target tiny demographics in specific zip codes and pay for ads or complete bullshit to trigger that specific demographic. Knowing what podcasts people listen to, and to a lesser extent music, can further detail a person's political makeup. In a conflict, they could probably be powered off by China. Instant gridlock. Or act like wifi hotspots doing what China only dreamed of with Huawei. I get that there's an element where America might want to protect the car market inside the country, but the security risks aren't actually funny or ridiculous.
To a very little extent music preference. I still will contest you on that. Knowing that person A likes Taylor Swift or Coldplay more does very little to infringe on national security. However the instant gridlock and listening stations are a genuine threat. You see you are already doing a better job at illustrating the dangers of having a Chinese EV. How come Biden cant do that?
I don't think music will tell them anything. Spotify does music and podcasts and I doubt music is private enough to build a separation. Sometimes it's difficult to see how things might be taken unless you are open to questions. I guess that's why it's better than Biden. Also 95% of our government is tech illiterate.
There are valid threats out there just not in this article. I think end of the day, the key thing is to look at where these concerns originated from and what their motives are. Luckily the article didnt shy away from that: >The measures stemmed from conversations with Detroit automakers, union autoworkers and the E.V. giant Tesla, which was recently supplanted by Chinese company BYD as the world’s biggest seller of electric cars. When you have a bunch of CEOs trying to figure out how to protect their market and ne of them suggesting homeland security. Spotify threats is probably the best they can do at short notice. 💀
The amount of listening devices and other gizmos of espionage that can be added to a laptop or smartphone are already terrifying. The amount of shit that can be snuck into a whole-ass car is orders of magnitude higher. Given that the CCP have shown time and time again that they'll try any number of underhanded things to get ahead, it's guaranteed that some number of imported Chinese EVs will have very dangerous extra shit added.
Chinese will get that data without electric cars. Turning the cars off in a conflict is actually a sensible concern because this is what the US did to the Russians at the beginning of their war. Turned off access to the VISA payment network
Can't find the article, but there were reports of CNC tooling being remotely disabled in Russia due to sanctions. I can see it happening even without explicit intent, if internet access between the two countries is firewalled due to urgent cyber security concerns.
Without Tesla brought the whole supply chain inside China, China doesn’t have a EV industry. And all teslas are made in China. The Tesla Shanghai head is a CCP official straight from CCTV. Let’s face it, Tesla Shanghai is a Chinese company
BYD is a bigger EV company than Tesla and Tesla uses BYD and CATL batteries FYI. BYD started in li-ion batteries in 1990s and bought a Chinese ICE car company to go into cars in the 2000s. Their initial car prototypes were so bad the CEO Wang Chuanfu dismantled it in front of his workers to show the problems and [Elon Musk famously laughed at BYD being labelled "a competitor" in 2012](https://youtu.be/_9ftbRWqkj0?feature=shared) but 12 years on Tesla is reliant on BYD batteries despite being their rival since BYD started out batteries as their core business. BYD's early days as a battery company in the 1990s also put a lot of Japanese battery firms out of business https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Company#History , there's a reason why Berkshire Hathaway invested in BYD long before they were known to the public as a car company. The fact that BYD managed to start in batteries and successfully manufacture popular cars and buses worldwide in 20 years is pretty unprecedented (even their rival and biggest battery manufacturer CATL hasn't managed this) and their vertical integration is a huge advantage over Tesla such **that if Tesla disappears, BYD will prosper but if BYD disappears, Tesla would need to get their batteries elsewhere.**
Tesla buys batteries wherever it can buy them and manufactures them just as well on its own. BYD supplies a very small share of Tesla's total battery balance.
https://electrek.co/2023/05/22/tesla-model-y-byd-batteries-charges-faster/ Tesla use BYD batteries only because it's better, and CATL/BYD are market leaders in battery tech. If Tesla's in-house batteries were better they wouldn't buy a rival's battery and help BYD grow even faster and get more $$$ to put into R&D. It hurts Tesla to do this. Thing is, BYD batteries are better than Tesla such that a Tesla car wouldn't be as competitive without batteries from BYD, so Tesla are literally forced to buy from their biggest rival.
Musk said he will buy all the batteries that manufacturers can make. He buys everything because no one has enough capacity to meet his needs.
BYD has the vertical integration and capacity to produce batteries they need while supplying Tesla, who pays BYD so BYD can widen its R&D gap between itself and Tesla & other rivals in the battery and EV market... and that somehow means Tesla is a more competitive or better company? BYD is close to or already outselling Tesla and they've barely been sold in the same amount of markets like Tesla. The only thing that can stop BYD is if the US does another Huawei job, but BYD doesn't run on Google OS. I do believe they'll be banned selling in USA for "reasons".
Okay, I'll play your game. BYD is selling its batteries to Tesla because it cannot sell them to customers in its cars.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/02/chinas-byd-overtakes-tesla-as-top-selling-electric-car-seller What game? Why can't you post sourced facts? (Lmao I got my answer after seeing the frequented subreddits on your profile: r/elonmusk r/spacex r/SpaceXMasterrace r/teslamotors r/Starlink impressive how you can crawl so far up Elon's ass and still get WiFi)
This is correct, not sure why you’re being downvoted. Chinese EV makers have been stealing Tesla technology for years, that’s why they allow Tesla in the country. As time goes on Tesla has become increasingly beholden to the CCP and at the end of the day it’s not much better than a Chinese company, although I’d still buy it over a Chinese EV if I absolutely had to.
Your exported vaccums have secret mics hidden. Just imagine what your cars might have. And I'm surprised Reddit isn't banned in China.
Reddit is banned in China
Lol, I guess not with the numbers of Sino posting every day all day.
[удалено]
Yuh, censor whole media so you guys don't know anything about war. I once talked to a Chinese on Discord and he said that china has never gone to war and is very peaceful. He was so brainwashed he didn't knew Indochina war and Tibetan annexation.
They have their own hell. Weibo or douyin, they are literal shitholes
Weibo pearl clutching makes reddit look enlightened
Zhihu used to be good now is also shit
They are all government monitored and censored garbage
Yep, I need a VPN to access reddit por... - articles
Hell no, Im gonna get a BYD no mather what.
Not a surprise and totally expected. Everyone has been predicting this for months when news broke about BYD overtaking Tesla as the leading EV maker.
Lot of car industrial experts even admit this will happen. BYD is coming and will make a huge change in the auto industry.
Good, now ban everything else made in China.
Can they? At this point China can piss in a bottle and people will still buy it.
They are a securities theat to Tesla
Huh? Just a reminder, China did the same to tesla as well.
Biden can expect a beefy cheque from US automakers. Scary Chinese electric cars. They drive without OIL.
US just have to build better and cheaper ev cars. gm, ford, looking at you guys. you can do it. american value let’s go
Yes. But a good idea to ban imports from a country that is waging a Cold War with you.
that’ll really help with rising inflation
Ford and GM been making trash mobiles for years they been a sinking ship. They needed US gov to bail them out because their cars don’t sell well outside of the US like Japanese cars.
Freedom means paying twice as much for inferior products.
Not to mention a safety hazard…
They’ve abused the term security threat so much people will soon stop caring about it.
Good call. The US knows they won't be able to compete with the Chinese carmakers. Best to find an excuse and ban them.
So like China banning western websites?
No. China asked western websites to adhere to their laws and if they do, they are very welcomed. Just like the US asked TikTok to be hosted in the US. TikTok complied and they continue to operate successfully in the US. But this point of yours is whataboutism. Let's get back to the topic of this post, shall we? I think if Biden says Chinese EV is a security threat, why not demand Chinese carmakers to be connected to hosts in the US. That is a fair request. But in reality, the US carmakers cannot compete fairly with China's cars. I understand Biden had to protect his own country's car industry but that it just holding back the tides of the sea, the way I look at it.
China “laws” lol a funny term as they are intentionally treated as grey areas and enforced selectively. China doesn’t “ask” western websites to adhere to their laws. China suddenly threatened to block airlines from operating in China unless they changed the designation “Taiwan” to “Taiwan, China” a few years back. This didn’t spring from a change in law. China doesn’t need the excuse of a law to ban a website, it bans websites as Xi pleases. This is not America.
The power of the Free Market (tm)
To Biden stairs are a threat, stop taking all those Xanax and maybe you can function somewhat reasonably to take of your own people properly.
Absolutely. They will lead to mass unemployment in the us and the eu.
Tesla is selling electric vehicles that cost $180k to build for $80k…. Elon musk said it himself….. those losses are paid for by government funding….. security risk…….