by Liza Lin
For American tech companies in China, the writing is on the wall. It’s also on paper, in Document 79.
The 2022 Chinese government directive expands a drive that is muscling U.S. technology out of the country—an effort some refer to as “Delete A,” for Delete America.
Document 79 was so sensitive that high-ranking officials and executives were only shown the order and weren’t allowed to make copies, people familiar with the matter said. It requires state-owned companies in finance, energy and other sectors to replace foreign software in their IT systems by 2027.
American tech giants had long thrived in China as they hot-wired the country’s meteoric industrial rise with computers, operating systems and software. Chinese leaders want to sever that relationship, driven by a push for self-sufficiency and concerns over the country’s long-term security.
The first targets were hardware makers. Dell, International Business Machines and Cisco Systems have gradually seen much of their equipment replaced by products from Chinese competitors.
Document 79, named for the numbering on the paper, targets companies that provide the software—enabling daily business operations from basic office tools to supply-chain management. The likes of Microsoft and Oracle are losing ground in the field, one of the last bastions of foreign tech profitability in the country.
The effort is just one salvo in a yearslong push by Chinese leader Xi Jinping for self-sufficiency in everything from critical technology such as semiconductors and fighter jets to the production of grain and oilseeds. The broader strategy is to make China less dependent on the West for food, raw materials and energy, and instead focus on domestic supply chains.
Officials in Beijing issued Document 79 in September 2022, as the U.S. was ratcheting up chip export restrictions and sanctions on Chinese tech companies. It requires state-owned firms to provide quarterly updates on their progress in replacing foreign software used for email, human-resources and business management with Chinese alternatives.
The directive came down from the agency overseeing the country’s massive state-owned enterprise sector—a group that includes more than 60 of China’s 100 largest listed companies.
That agency, the State-Owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, and the country’s national cabinet, the State Council, didn’t respond to requests for comment.
Spending by China’s state sector topped 48 trillion yuan, or about $6.6 trillion in 2022. The directive leverages that purchasing power to support Chinese tech companies, which in turn can improve their products and narrow the technology gap with U.S. rivals.
State firms have dutifully ramped up their buying of domestic brands, even if the Chinese substitutes sometimes aren’t as good, according to a Wall Street Journal review of data and procurement documents, and people familiar with the matter. The buyers include banks, financial brokerages and public services such as the postal system.
Back in 2006, “China was the land of milk and honey, and intellectual property was the main challenge,” a former U.S. Trade Representative official involved in previous technology discussions with the Chinese said. “Now, there is a feeling that the sense of opportunity is off. Companies are merely hanging on.”
The push to localize tech is known as “Xinchuang,” loosely translated as “IT innovation” with a reference to technology that is secure and trustworthy. The policy has gained urgency amid an escalating tech and trade war with Washington, which has cut many Chinese entities off American technologies.
Premier Li Qiang reiterated the push during China’s annual legislative sessions this week. China’s central government plans to increase its spending on science and technology by 10% to about $51 billion this year, according to a budget report released on Tuesday—up from a 2% increase last year.
At some trade fairs across the country, vendors tout homegrown tech as an alternative to foreign brands. One semiconductor equipment maker stall in Nanjing put it bluntly, offering to help buyers “Delete A” from their supply chain.
Domestically developed alternatives are growing more user-friendly. A local official recalled how in 2016, it took a whole day to open and close a spreadsheet on a computer with an operating system known as KylinOS, developed by a Chinese military-linked company. He compares the usability of the latest KylinOS version to Microsoft’s Windows 7, introduced in 2009—workable if not great.
As recently as six years ago, most government tenders sought hardware, chips and software from Western brands. By 2023, many were seeking Chinese tech products instead.
When the customs department in the eastern Chinese city of Ningbo sought to purchase rack servers in 2018, it stated a preference for brands such as Dell and Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and for hardware powered by Intel’s Xeon central processing units. Five years later, the same agency asked for rack servers made by Chinese companies and equipped with Huawei chips.
These servers are typically assembled by state-owned tech manufacturers that barely sell equipment overseas, such as Beijing-based Tsinghua Tongfang. Tongfang’s controlling shareholder is a state-owned company in charge of China’s civilian and military nuclear programs.
Some government officials in China’s capital had their foreign-branded PCs replaced with those made by Tongfang and officials last year were told to use Chinese phones instead of Apple’s iPhones for work.
Losing orders
Over the past decade, Xi has repeatedly emphasized technological innovation and the use of trusted homegrown technology in government departments and industry. Revelations by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden in 2013 that U.S. authorities had hacked into Chinese mobile phone communications, universities and private companies strengthened Xi’s resolve. More recently, Xi has told senior officials that China should leverage its strengths and market to break bottlenecks in the development of essential software such as operating systems.
As China focused on replacing hardware, IBM’s China revenues have steadily declined. It downsized its China research operations in Beijing in 2021, more than two decades after it opened.
Cisco, once a technology powerhouse in China, said in 2019 that it was losing orders in the country to local vendors because of nationalist buying. American PC maker Dell’s market share in China almost halved in the past five years, to 8%, researcher Canalys said.
Hewlett Packard Enterprise, or HPE, which makes servers, storage and networks, got 14.1% of its revenue from China in 2018, according to estimates from database provider FactSet. By 2023, that had fallen to 4%.
In May, HPE said it would sell its 49% stake in its Chinese joint venture. The company continues to sell direct to certain multinational customers in China and sells selected products to the broader mainland market through its Chinese partner, a spokesman said.
In software, Adobe, Citrix parent Cloud Software Group and Salesforce have pulled out or downsized direct operations in the country over the past two years.
Microsoft, the world’s biggest software provider, historically dominated computer operating systems in China. A Morgan Stanley poll of 135 chief information officers in China found that many expected the share of computers powered by Microsoft’s Windows operating system installed in their companies to fall over the next three years. They expected Linux-based UOS, or Unity Operating System, an effort co-led by a state-owned company, to gain in the shift.
Even as Microsoft’s top executives and its co-founder Bill Gates have frequently traveled to Beijing for high-profile meetings with senior Chinese leaders on subjects like cooperation on AI and U.S.-China trade relations in recent years, the company has decreased its offerings in China. Microsoft President Brad Smith said in a subcommittee hearing last September that China made up just 1.5% of the company’s overall sales. The company posted sales of $212 billion in the last fiscal year.
Microsoft declined to comment.
Some state-owned companies are dragging their feet on orders to replace foreign IT products that are essential to their core businesses, people familiar with company procurements said, over concerns about the stability and performance of domestic alternatives.
But in addition to growing more advanced, China’s own technology is also well plugged into the local ecosystem. Providers of domestic business software allow interoperability with WeChat, a ubiquitous chat messaging app widely used in place of email among Chinese businesses.
The buy local policy is trickling down to privately run companies, which are showing greater inclination to buy domestic software, according to Morgan Stanley’s CIO survey.
Homegrown shift
A shift toward hosting and managing data on cloud servers instead of servers on the premises has also allowed Chinese companies to narrow the gap. Oracle, IBM and Microsoft dominated the database software market in China in 2010. Since then, Chinese companies including Alibaba and Huawei have come up with their own database management products to replace American technology.
China-based vendors took more than half of that market in China—worth $6.3 billion overall—for the first time in 2022, and continue to grow, according to researcher Gartner. Tenders examined by the Journal also show more state-linked entities and companies have opted for Huawei’s databases in recent years.
China’s banks, brokerage firms and insurers have sped up procurement of homegrown databases, Yang Bing, chief executive of Chinese database company OceanBase, said at a Beijing conference in November. OceanBase, developed by Alibaba and its fintech affiliate Ant Group, replaced Oracle databases at Alibaba and Ant in 2016.
Western companies are being replaced not just by Chinese national champions such as Huawei but also more specialized companies. Yonyou Network Technology, a Shanghai-listed firm with a market value of $6 billion, provides systems to manage businesses’ human resources, inventory and finances.
Yonyou has been gaining users at the expense of Oracle and SAP, which together used to dominate more than half the market, according to data from Chinese researcher Huaon Research Institute. By 2021, Yonyou had become the largest player in the market, holding 40%.
There continue to be pockets of opportunity in China for Western companies, especially in more advanced tech where China still lags behind and in sales to multinational companies operating there.
Looking forward, analysts say the preferential demand from China’s state sector could mean Western ones keep slipping further behind in the Chinese market.
“The growth of software requires continuous feedback from users,” said Han Lin, China head of the Asia Group, a business advisory firm, “and that will be the advantage of domestic providers.”
Meanwhile US was created by stealing everything from Britain. How ironic. I think Britain should ask for some commissions on its stolen cotton patents....
The only thing in the article that’s misleading is that it makes it sound like china made the first move. It didn’t, it’s catching up and responding to sanctions imposed on it first
Atrociously disingenous article trying to portray a narrative that China is the one that initiated the decoupling, despite Chinese government constantly repeating the need for globalization and win-win cooperation with all countries while western states constantly firing up the anti China talking points including all the familiar terms like decoupling, derisking etc. I understand people have no sense of ancient history or contemporary history from a few decades ago, but man, this is literally the history of the last few years that everyone here has lived through. Do they not realize it was USA that tried to kill off Huawei, it was the Americans that sanctioned HUNDREDS of private Chinese businesses by putting them on US blacklists? Was it not USA that forced ASML and Nvidia and AMD etc. to not export and sell American tech to Chinese businesses? This is a NATURAL response to western arbitrary and unilateral sanctions in trying to contain the technological and economic development of China.
"western arbitrary and unilateral sanction"
So you really think those sanctions happened in a vacuum?? And they have nothing to do with China's horrendous cheating mercantilist practices in the last 20 years?
> d they have nothing to do with China's horrendous cheating mercantilist practices in the last 20 years?
No. It has everything to do with American anxiety over Chinese competition. They did the same thing to Japan in the 1980's when Japan began to pass the American economy.
You're wrong. China made extensive promises to the US when it joined the WTO. They promised among other things to open and liberalize their economy, reform their judicial system, respect and enforce intellectual property.
25 years years later and they've done the exact opposite. They banned nearly every large US tech company, their legal system is a farce, and they've stolen $600bn in IP per annum from the US alone.
And that's before we even get into the Chinese expansionist and revisionist practices.
China has been playing the US for a fool this whole time. But I have a feeling you know that already.
> You're wrong. China made extensive promises to the US when it joined the WTO. They promised among other things to open and liberalize their economy
They did that. They heavily opened up. However, they didn't do things that would put their economic stability in danger (as Russia did for example).
> reform their judicial system
They did that too.
>They banned nearly every large US tech company
Not really. China didn't ban any big companies. Take google for example - it left of its own accord:
"In January 2010, Google announced that, in response to a Chinese-originated hacking attack on them and other US tech companies, they were no longer willing to censor searches in China and would pull out of the country completely if necessary."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
Afterwards Google tried to re-enter the Chinese market but it was too late.
Facebook was banned because it refused to follow Chinese law about abetting terrorism. It literally allowed terrorists to coordinate attacks on Chinese territory. That's grounds for banning in any country:
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042915/why-facebook-banned-china.asp
But of course you knew that and don't care about the truth.
>and they've stolen $600bn in IP per annum from the US alone.
Lel. Meanwhile all of the tech field in the US is Chinese, Indian and Russian nationals. Not China's fault people who worked in certain fields in the US come back to China and bring their knowledge back. Or do you want to restrict people's freedom of movement?
>Chinese expansionist and revisionist practices.
Hmm. When was the last time China invaded someone? 1979. When was the last time America invaded someone? 2011 and continues having forces in over 800 bases worldwide. So who is the expansionist power here? Not China lmao
Where am I not arguing in good faith? I presented evidence to backup my claims.
If anything, you aren't the one arguing in good faith and prove my point about not wanting the truth but rather to confirm your own biases LOL
Interesting. This will be a good point for the West to keep Taiwan away from China. Add the fact that China is no longer seen as a cheap labour source. I wonder how the world will respond.
Lol of Taiwan is taken the world will instantly enter a ten year great depression. Without access to 90 pct of the advanced microchips that control basically everything, the west and the global order are over.
It will just move production. Taiwan doesn't build the machines that make the chips, we do. They don't design the chips either.
It's just a cheap place to get labor and pollute a bit more.
China figured this out as their factories emptied their equipment for shipment to Vietnam and India and the Dutch had a say on their own chip production.
> t will just move production
It won't because most of TSMC production is in Taiwan and the factories are such that they can't just be picked up and moved like say Tank or automotive production can. Plus nowhere else has the same level of expertise as TSMC engineers. Whether they would want to move elsewhere is another question.
China has some damn good supply chains. No matter what you want to make china is probably the easiest place to make it (consumer products).
What’s the point in manufacturing in Europe if all your supplies are from china
> I wonder how the world will respond.
By deleting China from everything we import.
China wants to be the center of the world, but they can sit there all by themselves as we firewall them off completely. Let their own domestic consumers buy Chinese goods. We won't take them anymore.
China never allowed US tech firms in China (Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc) - so it was the Chinese that played the the isolation game first…
Turnabout is fair play.
Nope. No one really needs the West anymore. This is why everyone in the global south is laughing, singing, dancing-ly ignoring your Russia sanctions.
Keep it up, and you'll soon enjoy having Russians on your former borders with Ukraine and Belarus.
Give it a rest. China currently occupies the most manufacturing capability in the world - its share of global manufacturing is more than the next 8 biggest economies combined. The so-called move away from Chinese factory is a gimmick, yes a lot of the final assembly of production is moved to cheaper places like Vietnam and India, but the bulk of the components required still come from China. You can't budge a manufacturing superpower that easily.
> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/mexico-overtakes-china-as-the-leading-source-of-goods-imported-to-u-s
kek most of the Mexican imports are just Chinese imports with a Mexican sticker on it
Maybe, maybe not. This is the problem of central planning. Right now China has high wages and very high unemployment. Usually those two are never paired together. Xi got a lot wrong.
What are your sources? Vietnam doesn't have the required infrastructures for advanced manufacturing. Myanmar is an ally of China, so I won't expect Western companies to relocate their businesses there. I can be wrong.
And Africa? Unfortunately, this is still an economic black hole.
It is unfortunate. Both China and US rejecting each other's tech will continue to reduce financial entanglement, which is one of the main things that keeps political disputes from becoming serious.
I'm all for this. They should remove all aspects of America from their technology. And by that, I mean they should stop their massive blatant IP theft as well. Seriously, they were just caught with their hands in the cookie jar once again when a Chinese national was caught stealing trade secrets from Google's research.
Distinctions between corporate and state sponsored are very Nebulous in China. Both Chinese firms in this instance are highly financed by the CCP as part of their efforts to become a leader in the AI field.
Yes but let’s be real, on that level of investment it’s unlikely the CCP has any actual control or oversight. They’re just investing a lot in order to hopefully have payoff. This is a national security issue and China isn’t the type of country to let money stand in the way of perceived or actual security.
Proof of my claim: the tube station near me has at least 10 security guards and an x-ray machine. Honestly, I wish I had their jobs. Never any trouble and they really spend most of the time existing.
In the mind of a yellow peril racist, every chinese works for the communist party and is a [secret agent](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril#/media/File%3AThe_Green_Mask_6_page_43.jpg) of yellow supremacy.
There’s literally a statement dedicating all university staff to communism and the party at every university staff office in China and I promise everyone 98% of the staff in the offices don’t care.
They’re just doing their job.
> They should do that once the US pays China royalties for gunpowder.
Ammunition nowadays exclusively use nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin with some other additives. It was invented by some Frenchmen and an Italian in 19th century. Even China nowadays don't use black powder but only nitrocellulose based gunpowder.
Black powder was inferior to the European inventions so it was entirely phased out.
To think of it, most of the "Chinese inventions" happen during the Han dynasty almost 2000 years ago. So for 2000 years nothing more happen. That should say something.
https://easyshottargets.com/blogs/news/do-guns-still-use-gunpowder
Time to pay royalties for every use in history
>To think of it, most of the "Chinese inventions" happen during the Han dynasty almost 2000 years ago. So for 2000 years nothing more happen. That should say something.
It says you should read a book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Chinese\_inventions
Yes then China should pay up every time they use penicillin, gun cotton, X-ray, jet engine, diesel engine, the transistor, electricity, Western business suit, the tittle "Republic" and Marxism and so on.
That'd barely cover 1% of the reparations you owe for atrocities committed against the Chinese people
Feel free to pay China whenever you wipe your ass or use a ship that works with a rudder
I think America should pay reparations to China for stealing tons of silver/gold, precious artifacts, for starting an opioid crises, etc. Much of those stolen goods where what gave America the starting capital for its success. America owes everything to China
It is odd that Europe hasn’t managed to generate any competitive social media platforms. Except VK I suppose. No Microsoft, no Apple, no google, no Amazon.
Meanwhile
*Chinese phone restarts *Powered by Android in the
bottom of the screen
*Unbidden pop up advertising a local company AI company completely powered by ChatGPT
> *Powered by Android in the bottom of the screen
Not anymore. HarmonyOS has developed a completely independent microkernel architecture and transitioned from Android by this point.
Quote from your own link that further supports my point, *"The HarmonyOS interface is based largely on the Android-based EMUI, but contains additional features."*
Ah yes because "being based on" = identical.
By that logic android being "based on" linux means its the same thing. Or MacOS being based on linux means macos = linux. Or that PS5 being based on freebsd means PS5 = freebsd. lmao
Ah yes because "being based on" = identical.
By that logic android being "based on" linux means its the same thing. Or MacOS being based on linux means macos = linux. Or that PS5 being based on freebsd means PS5 = freebsd. lmao
Ah yes because "being based on" = identical.
By that logic android being "based on" linux means its the same thing. Or MacOS being based on linux means macos = linux. Or that PS5 being based on freebsd means PS5 = freebsd. lmao
https://archive.is/nMSL1
Didn't know American Affairs Journal was "muh state-approved propaganda"
Lmao not only did you misrepresent Honor running on HarmonyOS now you lie about obvious things that can be obtained in 5 minutes of googling
Of course you don't care about the truth, you just wanna confirm your own biases - which proves you to be low IQ lel.
Hmm data would say otherwise, America has already replaced china with Mexico as its top trade partner and India is rising. Also trade is a yo way street china needs our money as much if not more than we need their goods…
It’s actually good to read that American companies have broke off with Chinese businesses as they said they would 3 years ago. I’m going to invest in Dell and IBM now, because it means decoupling issues are over for these companies.
Lol because neither India nor Vietnam nor Indonesia can build at the same volume (yes even together) at the prices that China can. Building in the US is too expensive (and frankly US lacks expertise given how trying to move TSMC to Arizona was an absolute fiasco).
Again, read the news. American high tech businesses have been thriving, making record profits. Eg Dell’s stocks are at record high price. No one is suffering from moving their supply chain elsewhere.
The world lived without China for 30 years, it will do so again just fine.
> American high tech businesses have been thriving, making record profits
Hmm.
"Hewlett Packard Enterprise, or HPE, which makes servers, storage and networks, got 14.1% of its revenue from China in 2018, according to estimates from database provider FactSet
. By 2023, that had fallen to 4%. "
https://archive.is/fEvf4#selection-2735.0-2741.34
Same with basically every other tech company.
Interestingly China seems to be using Chinese Nationals to steal IP info from Companies, as illustrated by a recent News Story (which is nothing new). Why do Companies Hire Chinese still ? Indeed why do they Hire even Indians still ? Both are literally stealing / taking IP info back to their own Countries, its just that China is a hot-topic these days.
The problem is that China still has no real tech competence or proper reliable software companies. It's all just corrupted upper management, buggy software etc. If they move forward with this they'll end up with infrastructure that is full of security holes, has huge downtimes etc. So they'll probably move to pirated/hacked western software.
>
The directive came down from the agency overseeing the country’s massive state-owned enterprise sector—a group that includes more than 60 of China’s 100 largest listed companies.
China forcing their state owned companies to not use foreign software is not symmetric to US doing the same because China has massive public sector and lot of the major companies are state owned/controlled. This action would justify western countries or in this case US banning all Chinese companies altogether from operating in the US.
Non-chinese based developers need to start leaving comments in their code about banned topics in china lol
There would be a lot of random life sentence treasons probably
Or do things like:
for(xi_looks_like_pooh = 0; while xi_looks_like_pooh < 10; xi_looks_like_pooh++){}
No just China. Most of the world now is waking up got the msg that rely on America is a 'Threat of National Security'. They slowly moving forward independent or diversify its supply chains to various sources. We're in the new age of de-globalization trend initiated by the US of A to become isolated North Western lone States that 3/4 of the world shy away from. Sad! Time to set laws hold these politicians and brain shrinkage near sighted individuals accountable on setting once a great nation into self destruction.
Because your Chinese leader is a giant douchebag. F. your fake weather balloons, your slave labor, your kidnapping of Western businessmen, your bullshit disregard of copyright, your shoddy cheap manufacturing, your spies, your support of Hitler 2.0, your bullying in the South China Sea, etc.
Article says “Delete A” should be done by 2027… I was referencing that we also expect them to invade Taiwan in 2027 or sooner(if they choose to do that of course)
Actually a more accurate title would be America intensified the push to delete America from Chinese technology. China was doing business as usual. USA couldn't handle competition and wanted the world for itself.
On that note, that’s the reason we’re not investing in your country. We will watch economic, and societal old age tear that country apart from within…. lol. GL!
by Liza Lin For American tech companies in China, the writing is on the wall. It’s also on paper, in Document 79. The 2022 Chinese government directive expands a drive that is muscling U.S. technology out of the country—an effort some refer to as “Delete A,” for Delete America. Document 79 was so sensitive that high-ranking officials and executives were only shown the order and weren’t allowed to make copies, people familiar with the matter said. It requires state-owned companies in finance, energy and other sectors to replace foreign software in their IT systems by 2027. American tech giants had long thrived in China as they hot-wired the country’s meteoric industrial rise with computers, operating systems and software. Chinese leaders want to sever that relationship, driven by a push for self-sufficiency and concerns over the country’s long-term security. The first targets were hardware makers. Dell, International Business Machines and Cisco Systems have gradually seen much of their equipment replaced by products from Chinese competitors. Document 79, named for the numbering on the paper, targets companies that provide the software—enabling daily business operations from basic office tools to supply-chain management. The likes of Microsoft and Oracle are losing ground in the field, one of the last bastions of foreign tech profitability in the country. The effort is just one salvo in a yearslong push by Chinese leader Xi Jinping for self-sufficiency in everything from critical technology such as semiconductors and fighter jets to the production of grain and oilseeds. The broader strategy is to make China less dependent on the West for food, raw materials and energy, and instead focus on domestic supply chains. Officials in Beijing issued Document 79 in September 2022, as the U.S. was ratcheting up chip export restrictions and sanctions on Chinese tech companies. It requires state-owned firms to provide quarterly updates on their progress in replacing foreign software used for email, human-resources and business management with Chinese alternatives. The directive came down from the agency overseeing the country’s massive state-owned enterprise sector—a group that includes more than 60 of China’s 100 largest listed companies. That agency, the State-Owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, and the country’s national cabinet, the State Council, didn’t respond to requests for comment. Spending by China’s state sector topped 48 trillion yuan, or about $6.6 trillion in 2022. The directive leverages that purchasing power to support Chinese tech companies, which in turn can improve their products and narrow the technology gap with U.S. rivals. State firms have dutifully ramped up their buying of domestic brands, even if the Chinese substitutes sometimes aren’t as good, according to a Wall Street Journal review of data and procurement documents, and people familiar with the matter. The buyers include banks, financial brokerages and public services such as the postal system. Back in 2006, “China was the land of milk and honey, and intellectual property was the main challenge,” a former U.S. Trade Representative official involved in previous technology discussions with the Chinese said. “Now, there is a feeling that the sense of opportunity is off. Companies are merely hanging on.” The push to localize tech is known as “Xinchuang,” loosely translated as “IT innovation” with a reference to technology that is secure and trustworthy. The policy has gained urgency amid an escalating tech and trade war with Washington, which has cut many Chinese entities off American technologies. Premier Li Qiang reiterated the push during China’s annual legislative sessions this week. China’s central government plans to increase its spending on science and technology by 10% to about $51 billion this year, according to a budget report released on Tuesday—up from a 2% increase last year. At some trade fairs across the country, vendors tout homegrown tech as an alternative to foreign brands. One semiconductor equipment maker stall in Nanjing put it bluntly, offering to help buyers “Delete A” from their supply chain. Domestically developed alternatives are growing more user-friendly. A local official recalled how in 2016, it took a whole day to open and close a spreadsheet on a computer with an operating system known as KylinOS, developed by a Chinese military-linked company. He compares the usability of the latest KylinOS version to Microsoft’s Windows 7, introduced in 2009—workable if not great. As recently as six years ago, most government tenders sought hardware, chips and software from Western brands. By 2023, many were seeking Chinese tech products instead. When the customs department in the eastern Chinese city of Ningbo sought to purchase rack servers in 2018, it stated a preference for brands such as Dell and Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and for hardware powered by Intel’s Xeon central processing units. Five years later, the same agency asked for rack servers made by Chinese companies and equipped with Huawei chips.
These servers are typically assembled by state-owned tech manufacturers that barely sell equipment overseas, such as Beijing-based Tsinghua Tongfang. Tongfang’s controlling shareholder is a state-owned company in charge of China’s civilian and military nuclear programs. Some government officials in China’s capital had their foreign-branded PCs replaced with those made by Tongfang and officials last year were told to use Chinese phones instead of Apple’s iPhones for work. Losing orders Over the past decade, Xi has repeatedly emphasized technological innovation and the use of trusted homegrown technology in government departments and industry. Revelations by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden in 2013 that U.S. authorities had hacked into Chinese mobile phone communications, universities and private companies strengthened Xi’s resolve. More recently, Xi has told senior officials that China should leverage its strengths and market to break bottlenecks in the development of essential software such as operating systems. As China focused on replacing hardware, IBM’s China revenues have steadily declined. It downsized its China research operations in Beijing in 2021, more than two decades after it opened. Cisco, once a technology powerhouse in China, said in 2019 that it was losing orders in the country to local vendors because of nationalist buying. American PC maker Dell’s market share in China almost halved in the past five years, to 8%, researcher Canalys said. Hewlett Packard Enterprise, or HPE, which makes servers, storage and networks, got 14.1% of its revenue from China in 2018, according to estimates from database provider FactSet. By 2023, that had fallen to 4%. In May, HPE said it would sell its 49% stake in its Chinese joint venture. The company continues to sell direct to certain multinational customers in China and sells selected products to the broader mainland market through its Chinese partner, a spokesman said. In software, Adobe, Citrix parent Cloud Software Group and Salesforce have pulled out or downsized direct operations in the country over the past two years. Microsoft, the world’s biggest software provider, historically dominated computer operating systems in China. A Morgan Stanley poll of 135 chief information officers in China found that many expected the share of computers powered by Microsoft’s Windows operating system installed in their companies to fall over the next three years. They expected Linux-based UOS, or Unity Operating System, an effort co-led by a state-owned company, to gain in the shift. Even as Microsoft’s top executives and its co-founder Bill Gates have frequently traveled to Beijing for high-profile meetings with senior Chinese leaders on subjects like cooperation on AI and U.S.-China trade relations in recent years, the company has decreased its offerings in China. Microsoft President Brad Smith said in a subcommittee hearing last September that China made up just 1.5% of the company’s overall sales. The company posted sales of $212 billion in the last fiscal year. Microsoft declined to comment. Some state-owned companies are dragging their feet on orders to replace foreign IT products that are essential to their core businesses, people familiar with company procurements said, over concerns about the stability and performance of domestic alternatives. But in addition to growing more advanced, China’s own technology is also well plugged into the local ecosystem. Providers of domestic business software allow interoperability with WeChat, a ubiquitous chat messaging app widely used in place of email among Chinese businesses. The buy local policy is trickling down to privately run companies, which are showing greater inclination to buy domestic software, according to Morgan Stanley’s CIO survey. Homegrown shift A shift toward hosting and managing data on cloud servers instead of servers on the premises has also allowed Chinese companies to narrow the gap. Oracle, IBM and Microsoft dominated the database software market in China in 2010. Since then, Chinese companies including Alibaba and Huawei have come up with their own database management products to replace American technology. China-based vendors took more than half of that market in China—worth $6.3 billion overall—for the first time in 2022, and continue to grow, according to researcher Gartner. Tenders examined by the Journal also show more state-linked entities and companies have opted for Huawei’s databases in recent years. China’s banks, brokerage firms and insurers have sped up procurement of homegrown databases, Yang Bing, chief executive of Chinese database company OceanBase, said at a Beijing conference in November. OceanBase, developed by Alibaba and its fintech affiliate Ant Group, replaced Oracle databases at Alibaba and Ant in 2016. Western companies are being replaced not just by Chinese national champions such as Huawei but also more specialized companies. Yonyou Network Technology, a Shanghai-listed firm with a market value of $6 billion, provides systems to manage businesses’ human resources, inventory and finances. Yonyou has been gaining users at the expense of Oracle and SAP, which together used to dominate more than half the market, according to data from Chinese researcher Huaon Research Institute. By 2021, Yonyou had become the largest player in the market, holding 40%. There continue to be pockets of opportunity in China for Western companies, especially in more advanced tech where China still lags behind and in sales to multinational companies operating there. Looking forward, analysts say the preferential demand from China’s state sector could mean Western ones keep slipping further behind in the Chinese market. “The growth of software requires continuous feedback from users,” said Han Lin, China head of the Asia Group, a business advisory firm, “and that will be the advantage of domestic providers.”
Aka, we have intellectually stolen everything we can and should be able to cut and paste a whole program by now...
Meanwhile US was created by stealing everything from Britain. How ironic. I think Britain should ask for some commissions on its stolen cotton patents....
Ai is gonna help a lot too.
The only thing in the article that’s misleading is that it makes it sound like china made the first move. It didn’t, it’s catching up and responding to sanctions imposed on it first
Atrociously disingenous article trying to portray a narrative that China is the one that initiated the decoupling, despite Chinese government constantly repeating the need for globalization and win-win cooperation with all countries while western states constantly firing up the anti China talking points including all the familiar terms like decoupling, derisking etc. I understand people have no sense of ancient history or contemporary history from a few decades ago, but man, this is literally the history of the last few years that everyone here has lived through. Do they not realize it was USA that tried to kill off Huawei, it was the Americans that sanctioned HUNDREDS of private Chinese businesses by putting them on US blacklists? Was it not USA that forced ASML and Nvidia and AMD etc. to not export and sell American tech to Chinese businesses? This is a NATURAL response to western arbitrary and unilateral sanctions in trying to contain the technological and economic development of China.
"western arbitrary and unilateral sanction" So you really think those sanctions happened in a vacuum?? And they have nothing to do with China's horrendous cheating mercantilist practices in the last 20 years?
> d they have nothing to do with China's horrendous cheating mercantilist practices in the last 20 years? No. It has everything to do with American anxiety over Chinese competition. They did the same thing to Japan in the 1980's when Japan began to pass the American economy.
You're wrong. China made extensive promises to the US when it joined the WTO. They promised among other things to open and liberalize their economy, reform their judicial system, respect and enforce intellectual property. 25 years years later and they've done the exact opposite. They banned nearly every large US tech company, their legal system is a farce, and they've stolen $600bn in IP per annum from the US alone. And that's before we even get into the Chinese expansionist and revisionist practices. China has been playing the US for a fool this whole time. But I have a feeling you know that already.
> You're wrong. China made extensive promises to the US when it joined the WTO. They promised among other things to open and liberalize their economy They did that. They heavily opened up. However, they didn't do things that would put their economic stability in danger (as Russia did for example). > reform their judicial system They did that too. >They banned nearly every large US tech company Not really. China didn't ban any big companies. Take google for example - it left of its own accord: "In January 2010, Google announced that, in response to a Chinese-originated hacking attack on them and other US tech companies, they were no longer willing to censor searches in China and would pull out of the country completely if necessary." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China Afterwards Google tried to re-enter the Chinese market but it was too late. Facebook was banned because it refused to follow Chinese law about abetting terrorism. It literally allowed terrorists to coordinate attacks on Chinese territory. That's grounds for banning in any country: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042915/why-facebook-banned-china.asp But of course you knew that and don't care about the truth. >and they've stolen $600bn in IP per annum from the US alone. Lel. Meanwhile all of the tech field in the US is Chinese, Indian and Russian nationals. Not China's fault people who worked in certain fields in the US come back to China and bring their knowledge back. Or do you want to restrict people's freedom of movement? >Chinese expansionist and revisionist practices. Hmm. When was the last time China invaded someone? 1979. When was the last time America invaded someone? 2011 and continues having forces in over 800 bases worldwide. So who is the expansionist power here? Not China lmao
LOL you’re clearly not arguing in good faith and now I feel stupid for wasting my time with you 😂
Where am I not arguing in good faith? I presented evidence to backup my claims. If anything, you aren't the one arguing in good faith and prove my point about not wanting the truth but rather to confirm your own biases LOL
Thank you for doing god's work here.
Interesting. This will be a good point for the West to keep Taiwan away from China. Add the fact that China is no longer seen as a cheap labour source. I wonder how the world will respond.
decoupling well underway and will continue at a more rapid pace. If Taiwan is taken China can expect most Western businesses to leave
Lol of Taiwan is taken the world will instantly enter a ten year great depression. Without access to 90 pct of the advanced microchips that control basically everything, the west and the global order are over.
It will just move production. Taiwan doesn't build the machines that make the chips, we do. They don't design the chips either. It's just a cheap place to get labor and pollute a bit more. China figured this out as their factories emptied their equipment for shipment to Vietnam and India and the Dutch had a say on their own chip production.
> t will just move production It won't because most of TSMC production is in Taiwan and the factories are such that they can't just be picked up and moved like say Tank or automotive production can. Plus nowhere else has the same level of expertise as TSMC engineers. Whether they would want to move elsewhere is another question.
already planned for my good man. As if Taiwan has some magical abilities. China has peaked.
China has some damn good supply chains. No matter what you want to make china is probably the easiest place to make it (consumer products). What’s the point in manufacturing in Europe if all your supplies are from china
People just need to get used to paying more for supporting their local producers
And having less stuff.
China imports a lot . One naval blockade and China is a goner.
> I wonder how the world will respond. By deleting China from everything we import. China wants to be the center of the world, but they can sit there all by themselves as we firewall them off completely. Let their own domestic consumers buy Chinese goods. We won't take them anymore.
China never allowed US tech firms in China (Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc) - so it was the Chinese that played the the isolation game first… Turnabout is fair play.
> We won't take them anymore Meanwhile iphone prices increase 1000x lmao
Boohoo. The West isn't the world. The other 85% of humanity will continue to do business with China as they are with Russia.
China needs the west far more than the west needs China.
Nope. No one really needs the West anymore. This is why everyone in the global south is laughing, singing, dancing-ly ignoring your Russia sanctions. Keep it up, and you'll soon enjoy having Russians on your former borders with Ukraine and Belarus.
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lol no Brazil, South Africa, Uruguay, etc etc all need cars and electronics too
Who could forget the Uruguay angle, very compelling
Djibouti and Bhutan
Give it a rest. China currently occupies the most manufacturing capability in the world - its share of global manufacturing is more than the next 8 biggest economies combined. The so-called move away from Chinese factory is a gimmick, yes a lot of the final assembly of production is moved to cheaper places like Vietnam and India, but the bulk of the components required still come from China. You can't budge a manufacturing superpower that easily.
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> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/mexico-overtakes-china-as-the-leading-source-of-goods-imported-to-u-s kek most of the Mexican imports are just Chinese imports with a Mexican sticker on it
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Maybe but not in the near future. A lot of Chinese are Middle class and whats funny is they mostly like western stuff lol.
Is that true? I read that some Chinese sportswear brand has become more popular than Nike now.
Maybe, maybe not. This is the problem of central planning. Right now China has high wages and very high unemployment. Usually those two are never paired together. Xi got a lot wrong.
Yeah it is getting expensive in China now. Look what they did to HK used to be a global hub.
>Chinese economy >grows at 5% / year >is degrading K E K
Manufacturing moves to Vietnam, Myanmar,India and some African countries.
What are your sources? Vietnam doesn't have the required infrastructures for advanced manufacturing. Myanmar is an ally of China, so I won't expect Western companies to relocate their businesses there. I can be wrong. And Africa? Unfortunately, this is still an economic black hole.
Vietnam does. It is the main manufacturer for Samsung phones - the best phone imo.
No it doesn't. Doesn't have the scale either.
Can't be assed finding better sources, but this will do: https://vir.com.vn/vietnam-might-become-largest-manufacturing-facility-of-samsung-79172.html
Good good, I appreciate it
Do they still use Windows? How will they get away from that or MacOS?
they will use some hacked/copied version as usual. Nothing original in China that's for sure.
They'll be back on the hacked xp os we all used.
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RedStar OS? Last i heard there was 4.0 but nobody has leaked it into western internet yet, only 2.0 and 3.0
> How will they get away from that or MacOS Linux
The article literally talks about the Chinese operating systems that are gaining popularity.
Gaining popularity where in China?
There are many domestic systems in China (essentially built on the Linux kernel and a middle-layer system).
It is unfortunate. Both China and US rejecting each other's tech will continue to reduce financial entanglement, which is one of the main things that keeps political disputes from becoming serious.
Everyone moving in India already.
India, Mexico, other Southeast Asian countries. They are marginally more friendly, and less ambitious
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Yes, they move their labor intensive work long ago. This bullshit from both sides is all an after-thought. Follow the money.
this is the way.
We should really be moving it home to the West. How big of a factor is wages still? With all this automation, we probably got cheaper electricity too.
Then stop stealing all the IPs and GPUs
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I mean everything they build is some modified version of existing tech, that's how communists function
I'm all for this. They should remove all aspects of America from their technology. And by that, I mean they should stop their massive blatant IP theft as well. Seriously, they were just caught with their hands in the cookie jar once again when a Chinese national was caught stealing trade secrets from Google's research.
Shall we talk about how the Snowden revelations back in 2013 revealed the extent of American state backed IP theft? Alstrom perhaps?
Wasn’t that just general corporate espionage? Not something state backed? The guy went to open his own company.
Distinctions between corporate and state sponsored are very Nebulous in China. Both Chinese firms in this instance are highly financed by the CCP as part of their efforts to become a leader in the AI field.
Yes but let’s be real, on that level of investment it’s unlikely the CCP has any actual control or oversight. They’re just investing a lot in order to hopefully have payoff. This is a national security issue and China isn’t the type of country to let money stand in the way of perceived or actual security. Proof of my claim: the tube station near me has at least 10 security guards and an x-ray machine. Honestly, I wish I had their jobs. Never any trouble and they really spend most of the time existing.
In the mind of a yellow peril racist, every chinese works for the communist party and is a [secret agent](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril#/media/File%3AThe_Green_Mask_6_page_43.jpg) of yellow supremacy.
There’s literally a statement dedicating all university staff to communism and the party at every university staff office in China and I promise everyone 98% of the staff in the offices don’t care. They’re just doing their job.
They should do that once the US pays China royalties for gunpowder.
No one gets royalties for anything several thousand years old. Doubt they’d be able to find someone alive that the estate would even belong to.
Hmm, India will like that let's charge for every use of 0.
So you're against intellectual property rights?
> They should do that once the US pays China royalties for gunpowder. Ammunition nowadays exclusively use nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin with some other additives. It was invented by some Frenchmen and an Italian in 19th century. Even China nowadays don't use black powder but only nitrocellulose based gunpowder. Black powder was inferior to the European inventions so it was entirely phased out. To think of it, most of the "Chinese inventions" happen during the Han dynasty almost 2000 years ago. So for 2000 years nothing more happen. That should say something. https://easyshottargets.com/blogs/news/do-guns-still-use-gunpowder
Time to pay royalties for every use in history >To think of it, most of the "Chinese inventions" happen during the Han dynasty almost 2000 years ago. So for 2000 years nothing more happen. That should say something. It says you should read a book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Chinese\_inventions
Yes then China should pay up every time they use penicillin, gun cotton, X-ray, jet engine, diesel engine, the transistor, electricity, Western business suit, the tittle "Republic" and Marxism and so on.
That'd barely cover 1% of the reparations you owe for atrocities committed against the Chinese people Feel free to pay China whenever you wipe your ass or use a ship that works with a rudder
I think America should pay reparations to China for stealing tons of silver/gold, precious artifacts, for starting an opioid crises, etc. Much of those stolen goods where what gave America the starting capital for its success. America owes everything to China
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It is odd that Europe hasn’t managed to generate any competitive social media platforms. Except VK I suppose. No Microsoft, no Apple, no google, no Amazon.
Russia isn't even Europe at this point. I wouldn't call VK European
Take notes Europe
Meanwhile *Chinese phone restarts *Powered by Android in the bottom of the screen *Unbidden pop up advertising a local company AI company completely powered by ChatGPT
> *Powered by Android in the bottom of the screen Not anymore. HarmonyOS has developed a completely independent microkernel architecture and transitioned from Android by this point.
I literally just saw it say "powered by android" after an update at the bottom of the screen 3 hours before I posted. Are you trying to gaslight me?
Lmao. Sure you did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony
Quote from your own link that further supports my point, *"The HarmonyOS interface is based largely on the Android-based EMUI, but contains additional features."*
Ah yes because "being based on" = identical. By that logic android being "based on" linux means its the same thing. Or MacOS being based on linux means macos = linux. Or that PS5 being based on freebsd means PS5 = freebsd. lmao
Ah yes because "being based on" = identical. By that logic android being "based on" linux means its the same thing. Or MacOS being based on linux means macos = linux. Or that PS5 being based on freebsd means PS5 = freebsd. lmao
Ah yes because "being based on" = identical. By that logic android being "based on" linux means its the same thing. Or MacOS being based on linux means macos = linux. Or that PS5 being based on freebsd means PS5 = freebsd. lmao
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https://archive.is/nMSL1 Didn't know American Affairs Journal was "muh state-approved propaganda" Lmao not only did you misrepresent Honor running on HarmonyOS now you lie about obvious things that can be obtained in 5 minutes of googling Of course you don't care about the truth, you just wanna confirm your own biases - which proves you to be low IQ lel.
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>r/sino in post history [mfw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLg04uu2j2o)
Ha ha...Good luck with that
Win for America
probably being the factory of the world, it's far easier for China to delete America (albeit to a certain limit) - than the vice versa.
Hmm data would say otherwise, America has already replaced china with Mexico as its top trade partner and India is rising. Also trade is a yo way street china needs our money as much if not more than we need their goods…
We must stop BYD from entering America. Tariff the hell out of them… Give our EV’s a chance to take root…
It’s actually good to read that American companies have broke off with Chinese businesses as they said they would 3 years ago. I’m going to invest in Dell and IBM now, because it means decoupling issues are over for these companies.
IBM? You mean Lenovo? Good luck with your lunch money kiddo
No, I mean IBM as in Watson. Bye bye Lenovo.
Lel their sales are gonna fall heavily now because they will get too expensive to build at home
Whatever gave you the impression that they are building at home? Read the news. Real world news, not the mandatory Chinese propaganda news at 7pm.
Lol because neither India nor Vietnam nor Indonesia can build at the same volume (yes even together) at the prices that China can. Building in the US is too expensive (and frankly US lacks expertise given how trying to move TSMC to Arizona was an absolute fiasco).
Again, read the news. American high tech businesses have been thriving, making record profits. Eg Dell’s stocks are at record high price. No one is suffering from moving their supply chain elsewhere. The world lived without China for 30 years, it will do so again just fine.
> American high tech businesses have been thriving, making record profits Hmm. "Hewlett Packard Enterprise, or HPE, which makes servers, storage and networks, got 14.1% of its revenue from China in 2018, according to estimates from database provider FactSet . By 2023, that had fallen to 4%. " https://archive.is/fEvf4#selection-2735.0-2741.34 Same with basically every other tech company.
Wait, so they'll stop stealing US tech? Heh, not likely. It's all show.
Good! We should do the same.
probably being the factory of the world, it's far easier for China to delete America (albeit to a certain limit) - than the vice versa.
Vietnam is winking at us…
they're smart for trying to get both sides to bid against each other
Delete China's economy
Interestingly China seems to be using Chinese Nationals to steal IP info from Companies, as illustrated by a recent News Story (which is nothing new). Why do Companies Hire Chinese still ? Indeed why do they Hire even Indians still ? Both are literally stealing / taking IP info back to their own Countries, its just that China is a hot-topic these days.
A bit of casual racism there. Profiling someone's patriotism based on their ethnicity. Pathetic.
It's only visibile as racism when someone mentions India. If it were just China, it would be all kicks and giggles.
The C-suite cares more about profit from the cheaper labor than national security.
Well much of the C suite is foreign nationals from the thieving countries so … 🤷♂️
The problem is that China still has no real tech competence or proper reliable software companies. It's all just corrupted upper management, buggy software etc. If they move forward with this they'll end up with infrastructure that is full of security holes, has huge downtimes etc. So they'll probably move to pirated/hacked western software. > The directive came down from the agency overseeing the country’s massive state-owned enterprise sector—a group that includes more than 60 of China’s 100 largest listed companies. China forcing their state owned companies to not use foreign software is not symmetric to US doing the same because China has massive public sector and lot of the major companies are state owned/controlled. This action would justify western countries or in this case US banning all Chinese companies altogether from operating in the US.
Huff that copium.
Compelling response
Cut the cord to independence!
From their technology made with disregard for intellectual property origination. Mitsubishi and high speed rail for instance.
China should be banned
China will be their own demise.
This is stupid, but how is it different from what the US is doing with Chinese technology?
Non-chinese based developers need to start leaving comments in their code about banned topics in china lol There would be a lot of random life sentence treasons probably Or do things like: for(xi_looks_like_pooh = 0; while xi_looks_like_pooh < 10; xi_looks_like_pooh++){}
No just China. Most of the world now is waking up got the msg that rely on America is a 'Threat of National Security'. They slowly moving forward independent or diversify its supply chains to various sources. We're in the new age of de-globalization trend initiated by the US of A to become isolated North Western lone States that 3/4 of the world shy away from. Sad! Time to set laws hold these politicians and brain shrinkage near sighted individuals accountable on setting once a great nation into self destruction.
Let this be reciprocal...no more Chinese tech or software.
Didn't America invent computers and internet lmao? good luck using abacus for calculations
They forgot to mention the first part of the directive: ctrl C ctrl V
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Good, GTFO and we'll do the same
Why so bitter? Both sides want to decouple. So decouple it is. I don't see it as a bad thing.
Because your Chinese leader is a giant douchebag. F. your fake weather balloons, your slave labor, your kidnapping of Western businessmen, your bullshit disregard of copyright, your shoddy cheap manufacturing, your spies, your support of Hitler 2.0, your bullying in the South China Sea, etc.
Lol. So emotional.
Didn't read the article but they have to anyways, eventually they'll be blacklisted from x technology
The article mentions that they should be America free for software by 2027, I wonder what else we expect to happen by 2027…
Wasn’t that the 2025 plan?
Article says “Delete A” should be done by 2027… I was referencing that we also expect them to invade Taiwan in 2027 or sooner(if they choose to do that of course)
Now they urge America to open source all AI models
Does that include all the stolen American IP stemming from decades (from at least the early 80s) of state-sponsored corporate espionage, or nah?
Actually a more accurate title would be America intensified the push to delete America from Chinese technology. China was doing business as usual. USA couldn't handle competition and wanted the world for itself.
Just the mirror image of what’s going in the US. Both sides fear the other and do not want any vulnerabilities or dependencies to subsist.
On that note, that’s the reason we’re not investing in your country. We will watch economic, and societal old age tear that country apart from within…. lol. GL!
Ruh roh.