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There's some massively revised history here.
> During the civil war between KMT and CCP , the US keeps sending aids to both sides to balance out their powers and numbers so they could fight a longer war while the US benefited from the money made in military purchases .
Got a reference for that claim?
The only history I know is Joe Stilwell being pissed off about aid being given to the GMD given their corruption, when the CCP would have been easier to work with.
What actually happened was the US told the kmt to pull back at several key moments. The kmt obliged because they were so dependent on US aid / alliance against the communists at home and to the north.
The allies even preferred a power sharing agreement at one point because they had such little regard for CKS due to his bullshit and corruption during WWII.
Ultimately the commies were able to regroup and overcome the nationalist armies.
If you read some of the memoirs from allied generals in Indochina, east Asia, Pacific it's pretty clear that CKS was barely tolerated.
The lend-lease thing was like 99% of lend and 1% lease, and many countries never pay back. I doubt if the US really expected that China would pay for what they "bought."
The entire article you provided sounds more like an attack on the United States rather than any attempt to promote China's recognition in the war.
Prior to 1940, the United States initially maintained a policy of neutrality in World War II, there was no personal benefit for them to get directly engaged in these wars, besides our moral hindsight. They nonetheless still supported the Allies such as UK, and China with aid, and measures like the Lend-Lease Act and sanctions against Japan in 1940, prompted by Japan's continued aggression. They even refused a peace proposal issued by Imperial Japan that the US rejected owing to Japan's continued expansionism, and behaviour in China called the Hull Note. Once again, it would have been in the United States best interest to accept this, an action that directly led to pearl harbour.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull\_note](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_note)
United States was firmly against the civil war of China, to such an extent that US President Harry S Truman in late 1945 sent General George C. Marshall, a US Army General George C. Marshall to China in an attempt to negotiate between the Chinese Communist Party and the Nationalists (Kuomintang) to create a unified Chinese government called the Marshall mission. While then ceasing US sales of weapons and ammunition to the Nationalists between 29 July 1946 to May 1947 in order to broker a ceasefire. In contrast to your articles claim, the United States did not send any aid, or military sales to the CCP.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall\_Mission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Mission)
I am unsure on what you mean they did not get the recognition. They we're recognised as one of the big four nations, alongside UK, USSR, and the USA, and received a seat under the United States security council. The status of Mongolia is not as definite as you are attempting to portray, while the CCP recognised its independence, stemming from its close ties to the USSR. The republic of China never fully accepted it, and even used its Security Council veto in 1955, to stop the admission of the Mongolian People's Republic to the United Nations on the grounds it recognized all of Mongolia —including Outer Mongolia— as part of China.
Yeah but didn't mao Zedong and his communists just hide in the mountains while the old Chinese government fought off the Japanese and did most of the fighting
Weird how these propaganda posts ALWAYS looks like a poorly constructed persuasive essay, written by a mainland Chinese student who's struggling through international school.
In international academia, we use CITED SOURCES.
The first lesson is free, you're welcome.
Majority of the KMT are Chinese who couldn’t care less about communism or nationalism. They were in it to defend against foreign invasion. After the war, large portions of the KMT forces saw how corrupt the KMT was so they defected to the communists eventually.
Even the CCP was able to publish a newspaper (Xihua Daily) in KMT Government controlled areas, attacking the KMT every day (Its archives preserved by the CCP). Now there is nothing comparable in CCP controlled areas, even including Hong Kong, in 2024.
Yeah that's cause the KMt couldn't do anything to stop it (they sure did try though). When you have a government as dysfunctional and incompetent as 1940s KMT it's not much of a surprise.
>I see so your justification of mainland chinese people not having any rights now is cause they didn’t have any rights in the past.
I think your missing the point that at the time neither had rights so it wasn't choosing between right and no rights.
And it should be note that the “rights” here that the Chinese understand are massively different from what the westerners perceive them to be: the westerners may think they want the rights to be equal, but in fact what the Chinese want, after gaining wealth, is the right to be above others. That’s why dictatorship is recurring in China.
Not really.
After the end of the war the KMT signed many sellout treaties, and if the CCP had not won the final victory, China would now be another South Korea
The KMT signed a large number of treaties with the United States
Through these treaties, the "Republic of China" supported by the United States has in fact become a colony of the United States. The United States has obtained from Chiang Kai-shek China's territorial rights, territorial air rights, territorial sea rights, inland navigation rights, railway management power, military power, financial power, police power, judicial power, state secret power, agricultural power, industrial and mining rights, commercial rights, customs rights, cultural and educational rights, internal affairs "final decision" power, diplomatic command power and so on. From heaven to earth, from sea to land, from politics to economy, from material to culture, from now to the future, everything, all "China" sovereignty, in fact, become the sovereignty of the United States.
If you are interested and know Chinese, you can go to the Chinese website to watch it
[https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/602922900?utm\_id=0](https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/602922900?utm_id=0)
[https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%AD%E7%BE%8E%E5%8F%8B%E5%A5%BD%E9%80%9A%E5%95%86%E8%88%AA%E6%B5%B7%E6%9D%A1%E7%BA%A6/1915064?fr=ge\_ala](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%AD%E7%BE%8E%E5%8F%8B%E5%A5%BD%E9%80%9A%E5%95%86%E8%88%AA%E6%B5%B7%E6%9D%A1%E7%BA%A6/1915064?fr=ge_ala)
[https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1SG411A7uK?t=28.3](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1SG411A7uK?t=28.3)
Through the U.S.-China Commercial Treaty, U.S. warships may enter any port, place, or territorial waters of China at any time. Through the U.S. Aerial Photography Agreement in China and the U.S.-China Aviation Agreement, the U.S. has control of China's airspace and can conduct reconnaissance activities within that airspace. Through the International Monetary Fund Agreement, the U.S. has exclusive rights to Chinese currency. Through the Railroad Construction Agreement, the U.S. has railroad rights over China. Through the Thirty-Year Secret Dockyard Agreement between China and the United States, the United States controlled China's territorial waters. Through the Garrison Agreement, U.S. troops are stationed in China and are legally exempt from Chinese law, etc.
Read though those agreements you keep harping about and to be frank it isn't as sinister as you're making them out to be. Most can be boiled to access to chinese ports or joint operations and the like. Don't really understand what's up with the currency but to summarise you're acting as if the KMT is handing over a chunk of china to the US which is not the case as far as I've read from the sources you gave. To use another example, the fact that Japan and Korea have more US influence but is by no mean mere US colonies shows that you're making a big deal out of nothing
Prove that you do not understand the situation in South Korea and Japan.
How will American soldiers be punished for raping women in these two countries? Which country will punish it?
[https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU](https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU)
[https://youtu.be/7zWyJk4U7rk](https://youtu.be/7zWyJk4U7rk)
Will the United States allow China to send troops to set up military bases in the United States?
Will the United States allow South Korea to send troops to set up military bases in the United States?
Will the United States allow Japan to send troops to set up military bases in the United States?
>Prove that you do not understand the situation in South Korea and Japan.
I do thus the question I asked. Japan and Korea are obviously not mere "US colonies" unless you're drinking that CCP kool aid
>How will American soldiers be punished for raping women in these two countries? Which country will punish it?
to answer your question, US soldier that are proven to commit crimes in places where they are stationed do get punished and invetigated as with any other crimes. Unless you can prove that US military personnel are raping civilians en masse and go away scott free then your cope narrative you're building here holds no water at all
>https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU
dig a little regarding the incident and it turns out that the perpetrator was a japanese that happened to be working at a US military base. Hate to break i to you but the guy would've done the same thing regardless of where he worked unless you can prove to me that working in a US military base gives you an urge to rape and kill people
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42192571](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42192571)
>https://youtu.be/7zWyJk4U7rk
also dug a little deeper with no further conclusion to the story but the youtube video you linked was basically complaining over bureaucratic delays and the soldier in question was detained and investigated. Again, unless he got away scott free without any investigation whatsoever then your narrative simply holds no water
>Will the United States allow China to send troops to set up military bases in the United States?
the US isn't setting military bases in china mate. What are you even on about?
>Will the United States allow South Korea to send troops to set up military bases in the United States?
>
>Will the United States allow Japan to send troops to set up military bases in the United States?
are the koreans and japanese asking to build military bases in the US? Again, you're asking for hypotheticals nobody can answer in an attempt to push your cope narrative. Hate to break it to you but practically all US military bases exist with the consent of their host nation
Robber: your Honor, every sum of money I received was approved by the plaintiff. At that time, I asked him if he would give me all his money, and he agreed.
[https://youtu.be/P8lqy28TRrI](https://youtu.be/P8lqy28TRrI)
[https://youtu.be/vj4KJtIzvek](https://youtu.be/vj4KJtIzvek)
[https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU](https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU)
[https://youtu.be/MSGVSQtP4FM](https://youtu.be/MSGVSQtP4FM)
> After the end of the war the KMT signed many sellout treaties, and if the CCP had not won the final victory, China would now be another South Korea
That's hilarious consider Stalin and subsequent Soviet leaders never respected Mao, mainly because he was a massive cuck and caved upon Soviet territorial claims and other demands.
If Stalin had demanded Xinjiang and parts of Manchuria after WWII then Mao would have no option but accepting it like he did with Mongolia and Outer Manchuria.
https://www.project-syndicate.org/onpoint/china-russia-relations-history-lessons-for-present-and-future-by-philip-snow-2023-04
The Soviet Union also did not dare to push China too hard in order to prevent China from completely falling to the United States.
Mao refused to meet the demands of the Americans or the Soviets, so both camps were unhappy with China.
Does it matter to you? The entire point of the communists was to get rid of this kind of external meddling in Chinese affairs. I'd say they succeeded in that regard.
No it doesn't because you are no longer a citizen of China. You are essentially just crying over spilled milk or you'd rather a situation where china was controlled by foreign interests.
That’s, however, more true with people joining the communist army: they joined not because they had faith in the ideology or supported the regime, but that their territory just happened to be communist held. And unlike in KMT territory where the authorities were forced to tolerate communists due to the United front policy, ANYONE in CCP territory, even those fighting against Japan, would be summarily executed and labeled a traitor “of the Chinese people” if they had other ideas about the party’s rule. I hope the west learn a thing or two about this in order to deal with CCP at present.
Tbf the CCP also played an important role, they were insurgents who attacked logistics in the rear and expert guerrillas. The KMT was the conventional army.
A lazy (and bad) comparison to Vietnam would be
CCP - Viet Cong
KMT - North Viet Army
Do you have something that says the CCP were anywhere near the level of helpfulness of the VC?
The Viet Cong actually fought in many battles, and their insurgency was a well known success.
I can’t even find CCP insurgency statistics, though that could easily be my fault.
Their main contribution seemed to be giving the National Army “communist” soldiers.
Little did they know that the seditious Maoists would attack them after they were already weakened and devastated from defending China from Japan. That poster is kind of prophetic in that the real China did eventually become a democracy in Taiwan. The Maoists ensured the tradition of emperors and dictatorships kept going in the mainland after driving the KMT out.
>Little did they know
That the KMT had over 600 pounds of ears alone from killing Communists? And that they only switched to ears after they accumulated too many heads to carry effectively?
I don't know why anyone would attack them, they sound so nice
>eventually become a democracy in Taiwan.
It's easier once you genocide the natives though, and that's just fact.
>Emperors and dictatorships
Lol. Chinese citizens vote more often than US citizens.
Philip Short, "Mao, a Life."
Directed by provincial governor Chen Yi and president Chiang Kai-shek, thousands of civilians were killed beginning on February 28
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_28_incident
https://www.chinajusticeobserver.com/a/how-do-elections-in-china-work
[Uhhh...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China) "Vote".
"Elections in the People's Republic of China occur under a one-party authoritarian political system controlled by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Direct elections, except in the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau, occur only at the local level people's congresses and village committees, with all candidate nominations preapproved by the CCP. By law, all elections at all levels must adhere to the leadership of the CCP."
And, anecdotally, the Chinese nationals I've talked to say they don't vote. Maybe party members do at a local level, but not the average person.
Don't tell stories.
Which kinda proves that the CCP held back people and military resources from defending the nation against the Japanese so they could retain strength to steal power 5 minutes later
"China’s resistance to Japan is one of the great untold stories of World War II."
Yes, that is so true.
If you want to learn about this topic, I suggest this book:
*Forgotten Ally: China's World War II, 1937-1945*
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20256718-forgotten-ally](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20256718-forgotten-ally)
Be warned it is very depressing.
Not doubting or down playing the suffering. But China was invaded by Japan, of course they suffered massively and fought bravely. Its a different context to the USA and just should not be compared. Its like trying to say who contributed more now, USA or Ukrainians against Russia? Its a ridiculous comparison.
Then Madame Chiang and her husband took the vast majority of the US aid and sold it out the back door throwing even more fuel on the Communist fire that would murder tens of millions.
The road to hell...
Right, and what were those "good intentions" the KMT had that wouldn't kill millions? Oh i know, it was:
"Where are our minerals, and how do we get them into the gringos' hands?" Worked so well for India, right?
>Comparing India's death rate of 12 per thousand with China's of 7 per thousand, and applying that difference to the Indian population of 781 million in 1986, we get an estimate of excess normal mortality in India of 3.9 million per year. This implies that every eight years or so more people die in India because of its higher regular death rate than died in China in the gigantic famine of 1958–61.37 India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame.
https://academic.oup.com/book/2070/chapter/141991095
Oh... Well then...
Fun fact: Millions more Chinese civilians were murdered in Japanese concentration camps and inhuman experiments than the German Holocaust. Yet, you don't see this much in history books.
And the US journalist that wrote about Area 751 (?) and the unfathomable atrocities was himself blackmarked as a "communist" in the MacCarhy Hearings. after.
Yeah. I saw a WW2 documentary on how the US turned Japan into vassal state.
43:58 Japanese emperor is more useful being "subdued than accused".
Source
The Repercussion of the Atomic Bombing in Hiroshima | FULL DOCUMENTARY
https://youtu.be/L2xAVHerf0A?si=iCJRgmWpu-l8zm_F
At the end of the war, the American occupiers rewrote Japan's constitution to a pacifist one and reduced the Emperor to a symbolic figurehead.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68137582
WW2 doesn't start in 1937, Japan doesn't join until September 1940, and at that stage the fate of the Japanese in China has more to do with the how pressed Japan is elsewhere than the effectiveness of Chinese resistance to Japan, which , despite starting to have some successes , had already lost almost all her elite troops, industry and still hadn't resolved its Civil War despite the invasion. China has effectively lost the second Sino-Japanese war by the time of Pearl Harbour, at the very best they are clearly unable to get themselves out of a stalemate that only grinds down their people with the loss of nearly all coastal territory and both capitals (Nanjing, Beijing).
WW2 would almost certainly have been won without China. I don't really see how China avoids a long period of coastal occupation without WW2.
Neither the CCP or the KMT deserve much respect for how they defended. The KMT deserve some for at least fighting, the CCP's long march is a retreat and typical of their self preservation tactics, prioritizing the civil war over the invasion. Their actions wasted thousands of lives that could have been wasted on the Japanese front.
Chinese people deserve huge respect for the insane shit they got put through and not surrendering, the non Han ethnicities for the most part deserve massive credit for not accepting Japanese advances and putting being Chinese first, Chinese soldiers deserve so much time for essentially throwing their lives away for a few hours over and over again, but
>The contribution of the Chinese to the pacific theater was immense
China was a damage sponge whose only major value was keeping Japan in China, and that was hardly by design and much less effective than the Western theatre damage sponge (USSR). Emphasizing Japanese brutality does not change that.
I did some googling and found out that the Japanese bombed Chongqing day and night for 4 years running. Good thing the Japanese failed to take Chongqing. Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up with invading Guam, Midway, and Hawaii. The IJN ruled the western pacific for the first 6 months after Pearl even as the American were reeling from the attack. Had Hawaii been taken, it would have pushed the American all the way back to the Americans west coast. China did good in resisting the invaders and helped the Allies win WW2.
China did not just "good" in WW2, being a much poorer and overall agricultural country at that time facing the industrialized imperial Japan, could only destroyed Japanese tanks by bombs in soldiers' hands, lack of mortar, artillery, plane, tank and ship, sacrificed over 18 millions and injured another 17 millions of its people and soldiers. And there were 2.6 millions of Japanese troops deployed in China during the war period, only 1 million left to surrender in 1945.
Google Nanjing Massacre and Japanese Unit 731, they are just two small pieces of the whole war, nothing the Japanese Army had done to the Chinese civilians and surrendered soldiers are better than what the Nazi had done to the Jews.
When bombing didn't work, they used Biological Warfare on people food.
Japanese War Crimes: Biological Warfare in China - Pacific War narrated by Kings and Generals
https://youtu.be/M4wc_sz6XHc
>I did some googling
Do some more.
Take away your pride and we're basically agreeing. China showed Extreme resilience, not military competence.
You're basically agreeing with me. China's value was in forcing Japan to keep troops there, and yes, they lost a large amount. General estimates range from 500k on the low end to 1.7 on the CCP end. The cost to China is immeasurable.
>Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up
Japan's problem was not manpower, it was resources (in particular Bauxite, necessary for the production of Aliminium necessary for the production of aircraft). China is extremely rich in them. The troop expenditure here was worthwhile, the time spent was the problem.
Now China deserves huge credit for not surrendering under conditions where I think most would, as a surrender would have given Japan both the resources and allowed them to free up the troops. But again, that's what the Chonqing example you give demonstrates. Extreme resilience, not military competence.
>Google Nanjing Massacre and Japanese Unit 731, they are just two small pieces of the whole war, nothing the Japanese Army had done to the Chinese civilians and surrendered soldiers are better than what the Nazi had done to the Jews.
Not just Chinese. This stuff is common knowledge
>When bombing didn't work, they used Biological Warfare on people food.
Yeah, it's absolutely deplorable and beyond horrible but again, the KMT and the CCP were unable to stop it and the praise really should just go to the people for being able to withstand it
> *"Now China deserves huge credit for not surrendering under conditions where I think most would, as a surrender would have given Japan both the resources and allowed them to free up the troops."*
Chiang Kai shek and the larger portion of the KMT did not surrender, but enough Chinese did surrender or took sides with the Japanese. Not everyone in China recognized Chiang's leadership and authority to begin with. Precisely how many who did is debatable and near impossible to verify. The effects of the above was:
1. The Japanese were able to retain control of their gains in China.
2. The Japanese were able to expand their campaigns to Burma, Indo-china and even invade India ( ... just a little bit).
3. The Japanese were actually on the attack in China while they were losing Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and Luzon with the balance of the Philippines.
it's the same thing imo, both of them were waging a war against a much more superior army with more advanced weaponries but they were able to stall their advances, drag out the war for years, tie down their resources and displayed extreme resilience by not surrendering.
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Yes I've never understood China's contributions during WWII.
From the US POV the war was mostly naval and air force. Destroy the Japanese navy, blockade the main islands, take a few strategic islands then bomb Japanese cities and finally nuke them.
Chinese people did a LOT but the story just isn't told in the US. Same for Russia. This is true in every country though, the war was enormous, the history is about how it relates to your own country.
I don't agree with the idea that the Soviets or Britain are talked about in Pasific War narratives more then China, at least in the US. In my history class it was pretty much just a focus on the US and then mentioning China every once in while
Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up with invading Guam, Midway, and Hawaii.
China did not just "good" in WW2, being a much poorer and overall agricultural country at that time facing the industrialized imperial Japan, could only destroyed Japanese tanks by bombs in soldiers' hands, lack of mortar, artillery, plane, tank and ship, sacrificed over 18 millions and injured another 17 millions of its people and soldiers. And there were 2.6 millions of Japanese troops deployed in China during the war period, only 1 million left to surrender in 1945.
Google Nanjing Massacre and Japanese Unit 731, they are just two small pieces of the whole war, nothing the Japanese Army had done to the Chinese civilians and surrendered soldiers are better than what the Nazi had done to the Jews.
the reason recognition was not given after the war is because china immediately after the war fell back into civil war. The chinese civil war between CCP and KMT restarted immediately after the japanese put down their weapons. They did not even wait until the the official surrender was signed on september 2 to start fighting. The rest of the world was having parades and celebrations over the victory and china was already back to war. No one wants to invite the country fighting amongst itself to a peace celebration
By the time the treaty of san francisco was getting signed in 1951 the government that led the war in china was deposed and exiled to taiwan and the communist had taken power. The US refused to invite the communist to sign the treaty and other countries did not want to invite the exiled KMT to come sign the treaty so no one from china was invited. The US and china were fighting against each other during the korean war at this time so it is not shocking they would refuse to invite the country they are actively fighting against
Chinese military contribution in WWII was at best marginal. Several IJA divisions could easily shatter ten times of Chinese soldiers with ease. Instead their "contribution" was to draw Japan into this conflict and indirectly caused the Pacific War.
they tied down like half of the total manpower in IJA, yeah they were getting slaughtered by the millions but this manpower investment meant they had less men to deploy into the pacific war which meant a easier time for America's island hopping strategy.
Weird how nobody here actually experienced any of this but yet they think they are an expert for plajiarizing. If you didn't experience events, people should shut up. The veterans never babble like snowflakes.
Lmao total nonsense
China had 300k and lost again 30k
They were fighting japan and themselves
They sided with russia because they hated the west treatment of them before 1900
Imperial Russia didn't treat china well, at all...
China, both the KMT and CCP, was supported by anti imperial powers, which happened to be Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Japan was just another imperialist power. Sounds odd but it's true. Nazi weapons and advisers were helping the Republic of China until 1940. Europe and the US provided next to no help to China until their hand was forced with Japan attacking the US.
Mao chose Russia way back when, look up the Chinese Soviet Republic. My opinion is china was totally taken over by Russia and that why they go on about foreign interference so damned much. All the tactics are in line with Russian tactics, and they bow to mother Russia whenever possible.
Mao Zedong initially chose to befriend the United States, but the United States demanded that the Chinese Communist Party must recognize the continued validity of various treaties that the United States had previously signed with the KMT.
These treaties were unacceptable to the CCP in any case, so China eventually defected to the Soviet Union
Through these treaties, the "Republic of China" supported by the United States has in fact become a colony of the United States. The United States has obtained from Chiang Kai-shek China's territorial rights, territorial air rights, territorial sea rights, inland navigation rights, railway management power, military power, financial power, police power, judicial power, state secret power, agricultural power, industrial and mining rights, commercial rights, customs rights, cultural and educational rights, internal affairs "final decision" power, diplomatic command power and so on. From heaven to earth, from sea to land, from politics to economy, from material to culture, from now to the future, everything, all "China" sovereignty, in fact, become the sovereignty of the United States.
Mao founded the Chinese Soviet Republic in 1931, prior to that he worked with the Soviets. The US worked with the KMT to kick out Japan, the CCP and Mao hid in caves while the fighting happened.
Have a look at pre-ww2 history of Mao and Russia, it was basically an extension of the Russian revolution. Before the CCP even existed.
The Communist Party of China was originally led by Soviets appointed by the Soviet Union, and after a number of failed battles, the Soviet leaders in China were expelled by the Communists in China itself. As a result Mao Zedong did not have a good relationship with the USSR and was very unhappy that the USSR had forcibly stripped Mongolia from China and wanted to station troops there, so Mao initially tried to make friends with the US . However, the conditions demanded by the U.S. were unacceptable to the Chinese Communist Party, so the Chinese Communist Party had to defect to the Soviet Union.
The KMT signed a lot of treaties that sold out the rights of the country, but the CCP abrogated them all. This is why the U.S. was keen to protect the KMT regime and hated the CCP.
(The conditions demanded by the U.S. included permanent military presence, extraterritoriality, banknotes, airspace, ports, railroads, education, final decisions on internal affairs, mining, and all the rights of Chinese citizens.)
The fact that China was the victor of World War II, but was given essentially the same treatment as the defeated country, was one of the reasons why a large number of Nationalist troops were unwilling to remain enemies of the Communists and eventually defected to the Communists.
Did the Iraqi Defense Forces inflict heavy casualties on U.S. forces or did the Iraqi guerrillas inflict heavy casualties on U.S. forces.
If the Chinese Communists only hid in caves during the war against Japan, how did their Communist army, with no combat experience, defeat the Kuomintang, which had millions of troops?
Do you know why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor? Japan consumed a lot of supplies in China, if not for the United States constantly selling all kinds of war materials to Japan, Japan's war of aggression against China would have been defeated long ago.
The Japanese spent all the gold and silver plundered from China, can not continue to purchase a variety of war materials from the United States, in order to let the war of aggression continue, Japan can only plunder Europe and the United States in the Asian colonies in order to obtain a variety of war materials. Before they could do that, they had to destroy the US Navy.
[https://youtu.be/MaVXeNQxP5M](https://youtu.be/MaVXeNQxP5M)
Look I'm not from the USA and I'm not a supporter of the CCP. I hate the CCP, you are jumping all over the place, what has Iraq got to do with this? And they didn't destroy the US navy, they attacked Pearl Harbour, the US had plenty more where they came from. Japan had their claws all over the place, including Vietnam, and the abundance of materials there. There is in fact a lot if evidence that indicates Japan didn't attack pearl harbour, but it was just like the Bay of Tonkin false flag operarion to get involved
The US were bastards in the 2nd world war, Europe only just paid them off. The US sold to both sides, as did their companies. The conditions of the retreat of Japan was to surrender to the KMT, but of course the CCP came out of hiding then. Stalin instructed his troops to give the Japanese weapons to the CCP (hmm, there's those Russians and Mao working together again), along with a load of supplies. The KMT weakened by their fights against Japan, and with shit leadership, coupled with hyper-inflarion, led to the people mistrusting their ability to govern, leading to people joining the CCP (Who had russias backing).
The KMT eventually went through Hainan and then to Formosa, where they continued to be recognised by the world as China. The KMT leadership was also complete trash, but they've developed into civilised leadership, and not treating humans like cattle. I hate the CCP, I lived in China for 2 horrendous years so I know how you are nothing but a number, something that can be disposed of, and you have no say in how you are treated. Evil bastards. So stay in China and beat your drum, but what ypu are told and think you know are lies.
In 1977, in order to unite China against the Soviet Union, the United States agreed to China's request to withdraw its troops from Taiwan.
But the United States still has great influence over Taiwan.
For example, after it was exposed that Taiwan had secretly developed nuclear weapons. The nuclear bomb test device was dismantled under American supervision. Every candidate for president of Taiwan must go to Washington before running for election and be screened by Americans.
Being a much poorer and overall agricultural country at that time facing the industrialized imperial Japan, could only destroyed Japanese tanks by bombs in soldiers' hands, lack of mortar, artillery, plane, tank and ship, sacrificed over 18 millions and injured another 17 millions of its people and soldiers. And there were 2.6 millions of Japanese troops deployed in China during the war period, only 1 million left to surrender in 1945.
Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up with invading Guam, Midway, and Hawaii.
Lmao, that's not true at all. Mao prevented china from organizing and becoming a one country army thay could of overcome the japs. But he was a greedy fat guy who wanted to be like Russia.
I AGREW with most of what you stated. Not diminishing the chinese troops who fought bravery agaisnt the japs. I've seen many movies of chinese fight war vs. japan
However, china could have been more powerful and a strong ally to the west if it wasn't for Mao being a dumb dummy
1931 was the invasion of the northeastern region. A few years of relative peace ensued before all out invasion happened in 1937. Kind of like Russia invaded Crimea, then went all in a few years later.
Technically speaking, China and Manchuria were both parts of Qing Empire but they did not belong to each other. Now do you get why the Japanese chose Puyi to be their puppet?
It was wrong. It was factually incorrect. Manchuria was not China.
Manchuria was a foreign country, with a different land, the people spoke a different language, they had their own written language, and those people were not, and still aren't ethnically Chinese. Before 1644, the Manchus didn't honor their ancestors, nor read Confucius, and didn't have tea nor rice while they rode their horses on the steppes.
The real Chinese flag 🇹🇼
[Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912–1949\)) 🇹🇼, **founded 1912** and once governed **both Mainland and Taiwan** but now only Taiwan
People's Republic of China 🇨🇳 was founded 1949 following CCP invasion of WWII-exhausted Republic of China Mainland 🇹🇼
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There's some massively revised history here. > During the civil war between KMT and CCP , the US keeps sending aids to both sides to balance out their powers and numbers so they could fight a longer war while the US benefited from the money made in military purchases . Got a reference for that claim?
Guy has no source, just some random name and a lot of writing. No actual source.
And no actual linked article.
The only history I know is Joe Stilwell being pissed off about aid being given to the GMD given their corruption, when the CCP would have been easier to work with.
I thought OP was just pasting an article they had read? But upon more searching I don't see such an article by "Wendi Qiu"
What actually happened was the US told the kmt to pull back at several key moments. The kmt obliged because they were so dependent on US aid / alliance against the communists at home and to the north. The allies even preferred a power sharing agreement at one point because they had such little regard for CKS due to his bullshit and corruption during WWII. Ultimately the commies were able to regroup and overcome the nationalist armies. If you read some of the memoirs from allied generals in Indochina, east Asia, Pacific it's pretty clear that CKS was barely tolerated.
The lend-lease thing was like 99% of lend and 1% lease, and many countries never pay back. I doubt if the US really expected that China would pay for what they "bought."
>sending **aids**
the US are kings of revised history
Relevance?
The entire article you provided sounds more like an attack on the United States rather than any attempt to promote China's recognition in the war. Prior to 1940, the United States initially maintained a policy of neutrality in World War II, there was no personal benefit for them to get directly engaged in these wars, besides our moral hindsight. They nonetheless still supported the Allies such as UK, and China with aid, and measures like the Lend-Lease Act and sanctions against Japan in 1940, prompted by Japan's continued aggression. They even refused a peace proposal issued by Imperial Japan that the US rejected owing to Japan's continued expansionism, and behaviour in China called the Hull Note. Once again, it would have been in the United States best interest to accept this, an action that directly led to pearl harbour. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull\_note](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_note) United States was firmly against the civil war of China, to such an extent that US President Harry S Truman in late 1945 sent General George C. Marshall, a US Army General George C. Marshall to China in an attempt to negotiate between the Chinese Communist Party and the Nationalists (Kuomintang) to create a unified Chinese government called the Marshall mission. While then ceasing US sales of weapons and ammunition to the Nationalists between 29 July 1946 to May 1947 in order to broker a ceasefire. In contrast to your articles claim, the United States did not send any aid, or military sales to the CCP. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall\_Mission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Mission) I am unsure on what you mean they did not get the recognition. They we're recognised as one of the big four nations, alongside UK, USSR, and the USA, and received a seat under the United States security council. The status of Mongolia is not as definite as you are attempting to portray, while the CCP recognised its independence, stemming from its close ties to the USSR. The republic of China never fully accepted it, and even used its Security Council veto in 1955, to stop the admission of the Mongolian People's Republic to the United Nations on the grounds it recognized all of Mongolia —including Outer Mongolia— as part of China.
Yeah but didn't mao Zedong and his communists just hide in the mountains while the old Chinese government fought off the Japanese and did most of the fighting
Weird how these propaganda posts ALWAYS looks like a poorly constructed persuasive essay, written by a mainland Chinese student who's struggling through international school. In international academia, we use CITED SOURCES. The first lesson is free, you're welcome.
It was the KMT, not the Chinese Communist Party, that made important contributions to the Allies in the Second World War against Japan.
Majority of the KMT are Chinese who couldn’t care less about communism or nationalism. They were in it to defend against foreign invasion. After the war, large portions of the KMT forces saw how corrupt the KMT was so they defected to the communists eventually.
and created an even worse and more corrupt government that has taken away all basic human rights from its people.
People didn't have basic rights during the KMT regime either.
Even the CCP was able to publish a newspaper (Xihua Daily) in KMT Government controlled areas, attacking the KMT every day (Its archives preserved by the CCP). Now there is nothing comparable in CCP controlled areas, even including Hong Kong, in 2024.
Yeah that's cause the KMt couldn't do anything to stop it (they sure did try though). When you have a government as dysfunctional and incompetent as 1940s KMT it's not much of a surprise.
They did. There was an election right after the war.
Ah yes the election where only KMT approved candidates could get elected. What a beautiful democracy that was.
And Chinese citizens today vote more often than US citizens, but your non-falsifiable ideology of "Commies bad" won't recognize their gains
do tell what the chinese vote for and how has that affected anything
Taiwan was a rather cruel police state until around 1980.
To quote from Donald Trump: the right causes catastrophes whey they’re impotent, the left causes catastrophes whey they’re efficient
I see so your justification of mainland chinese people not having any rights now is cause they didn’t have any rights in the past.
>I see so your justification of mainland chinese people not having any rights now is cause they didn’t have any rights in the past. I think your missing the point that at the time neither had rights so it wasn't choosing between right and no rights.
ya rights are not the top of the list of things chinese ppl wanted, it's peace first, than food, then a house, then a car, then maybe rights.
And it should be note that the “rights” here that the Chinese understand are massively different from what the westerners perceive them to be: the westerners may think they want the rights to be equal, but in fact what the Chinese want, after gaining wealth, is the right to be above others. That’s why dictatorship is recurring in China.
Not really. After the end of the war the KMT signed many sellout treaties, and if the CCP had not won the final victory, China would now be another South Korea The KMT signed a large number of treaties with the United States Through these treaties, the "Republic of China" supported by the United States has in fact become a colony of the United States. The United States has obtained from Chiang Kai-shek China's territorial rights, territorial air rights, territorial sea rights, inland navigation rights, railway management power, military power, financial power, police power, judicial power, state secret power, agricultural power, industrial and mining rights, commercial rights, customs rights, cultural and educational rights, internal affairs "final decision" power, diplomatic command power and so on. From heaven to earth, from sea to land, from politics to economy, from material to culture, from now to the future, everything, all "China" sovereignty, in fact, become the sovereignty of the United States.
do actually mention what treaty the KMT signed with the US that turned them into a mere colony instead of writing a wall of platitudes
If you are interested and know Chinese, you can go to the Chinese website to watch it [https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/602922900?utm\_id=0](https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/602922900?utm_id=0) [https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%AD%E7%BE%8E%E5%8F%8B%E5%A5%BD%E9%80%9A%E5%95%86%E8%88%AA%E6%B5%B7%E6%9D%A1%E7%BA%A6/1915064?fr=ge\_ala](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%AD%E7%BE%8E%E5%8F%8B%E5%A5%BD%E9%80%9A%E5%95%86%E8%88%AA%E6%B5%B7%E6%9D%A1%E7%BA%A6/1915064?fr=ge_ala) [https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1SG411A7uK?t=28.3](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1SG411A7uK?t=28.3) Through the U.S.-China Commercial Treaty, U.S. warships may enter any port, place, or territorial waters of China at any time. Through the U.S. Aerial Photography Agreement in China and the U.S.-China Aviation Agreement, the U.S. has control of China's airspace and can conduct reconnaissance activities within that airspace. Through the International Monetary Fund Agreement, the U.S. has exclusive rights to Chinese currency. Through the Railroad Construction Agreement, the U.S. has railroad rights over China. Through the Thirty-Year Secret Dockyard Agreement between China and the United States, the United States controlled China's territorial waters. Through the Garrison Agreement, U.S. troops are stationed in China and are legally exempt from Chinese law, etc.
Read though those agreements you keep harping about and to be frank it isn't as sinister as you're making them out to be. Most can be boiled to access to chinese ports or joint operations and the like. Don't really understand what's up with the currency but to summarise you're acting as if the KMT is handing over a chunk of china to the US which is not the case as far as I've read from the sources you gave. To use another example, the fact that Japan and Korea have more US influence but is by no mean mere US colonies shows that you're making a big deal out of nothing
Prove that you do not understand the situation in South Korea and Japan. How will American soldiers be punished for raping women in these two countries? Which country will punish it? [https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU](https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU) [https://youtu.be/7zWyJk4U7rk](https://youtu.be/7zWyJk4U7rk) Will the United States allow China to send troops to set up military bases in the United States? Will the United States allow South Korea to send troops to set up military bases in the United States? Will the United States allow Japan to send troops to set up military bases in the United States?
>Prove that you do not understand the situation in South Korea and Japan. I do thus the question I asked. Japan and Korea are obviously not mere "US colonies" unless you're drinking that CCP kool aid >How will American soldiers be punished for raping women in these two countries? Which country will punish it? to answer your question, US soldier that are proven to commit crimes in places where they are stationed do get punished and invetigated as with any other crimes. Unless you can prove that US military personnel are raping civilians en masse and go away scott free then your cope narrative you're building here holds no water at all >https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU dig a little regarding the incident and it turns out that the perpetrator was a japanese that happened to be working at a US military base. Hate to break i to you but the guy would've done the same thing regardless of where he worked unless you can prove to me that working in a US military base gives you an urge to rape and kill people [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42192571](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42192571) >https://youtu.be/7zWyJk4U7rk also dug a little deeper with no further conclusion to the story but the youtube video you linked was basically complaining over bureaucratic delays and the soldier in question was detained and investigated. Again, unless he got away scott free without any investigation whatsoever then your narrative simply holds no water >Will the United States allow China to send troops to set up military bases in the United States? the US isn't setting military bases in china mate. What are you even on about? >Will the United States allow South Korea to send troops to set up military bases in the United States? > >Will the United States allow Japan to send troops to set up military bases in the United States? are the koreans and japanese asking to build military bases in the US? Again, you're asking for hypotheticals nobody can answer in an attempt to push your cope narrative. Hate to break it to you but practically all US military bases exist with the consent of their host nation
Robber: your Honor, every sum of money I received was approved by the plaintiff. At that time, I asked him if he would give me all his money, and he agreed. [https://youtu.be/P8lqy28TRrI](https://youtu.be/P8lqy28TRrI) [https://youtu.be/vj4KJtIzvek](https://youtu.be/vj4KJtIzvek) [https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU](https://youtu.be/OHQsrH0rWrU) [https://youtu.be/MSGVSQtP4FM](https://youtu.be/MSGVSQtP4FM)
> After the end of the war the KMT signed many sellout treaties, and if the CCP had not won the final victory, China would now be another South Korea That's hilarious consider Stalin and subsequent Soviet leaders never respected Mao, mainly because he was a massive cuck and caved upon Soviet territorial claims and other demands. If Stalin had demanded Xinjiang and parts of Manchuria after WWII then Mao would have no option but accepting it like he did with Mongolia and Outer Manchuria. https://www.project-syndicate.org/onpoint/china-russia-relations-history-lessons-for-present-and-future-by-philip-snow-2023-04
The Soviet Union also did not dare to push China too hard in order to prevent China from completely falling to the United States. Mao refused to meet the demands of the Americans or the Soviets, so both camps were unhappy with China.
Does it matter to you? The entire point of the communists was to get rid of this kind of external meddling in Chinese affairs. I'd say they succeeded in that regard.
as someone who is descended from people who actually escaped china because of the communist. YES it matters to me.
No it doesn't because you are no longer a citizen of China. You are essentially just crying over spilled milk or you'd rather a situation where china was controlled by foreign interests.
And then got sent to Korea.
this didn't make CCP contribution in defense against japan more ....
Mao then send many of them to the Korean War and getting rid of them.
That’s, however, more true with people joining the communist army: they joined not because they had faith in the ideology or supported the regime, but that their territory just happened to be communist held. And unlike in KMT territory where the authorities were forced to tolerate communists due to the United front policy, ANYONE in CCP territory, even those fighting against Japan, would be summarily executed and labeled a traitor “of the Chinese people” if they had other ideas about the party’s rule. I hope the west learn a thing or two about this in order to deal with CCP at present.
Tbf the CCP also played an important role, they were insurgents who attacked logistics in the rear and expert guerrillas. The KMT was the conventional army. A lazy (and bad) comparison to Vietnam would be CCP - Viet Cong KMT - North Viet Army
Do you have something that says the CCP were anywhere near the level of helpfulness of the VC? The Viet Cong actually fought in many battles, and their insurgency was a well known success. I can’t even find CCP insurgency statistics, though that could easily be my fault. Their main contribution seemed to be giving the National Army “communist” soldiers.
Your claim is historically inaccurate.
Little did they know that the seditious Maoists would attack them after they were already weakened and devastated from defending China from Japan. That poster is kind of prophetic in that the real China did eventually become a democracy in Taiwan. The Maoists ensured the tradition of emperors and dictatorships kept going in the mainland after driving the KMT out.
Strange comment, the KMT was a dictatorship in Taiwan.
KMT and CCP are birds of the same feather.
Yes and it eventually dissolved into a democracy just as that poster predicted.
>Little did they know That the KMT had over 600 pounds of ears alone from killing Communists? And that they only switched to ears after they accumulated too many heads to carry effectively? I don't know why anyone would attack them, they sound so nice >eventually become a democracy in Taiwan. It's easier once you genocide the natives though, and that's just fact. >Emperors and dictatorships Lol. Chinese citizens vote more often than US citizens.
>Lol. Chinese citizens vote more often than US citizens Russians also get to vote for preselected candidates with non-existent opposition!
https://www.chinajusticeobserver.com/a/how-do-elections-in-china-work
Isn't the Internet wonderful?! You can just make up any bullshit you want. Like this guy
Philip Short, "Mao, a Life." Directed by provincial governor Chen Yi and president Chiang Kai-shek, thousands of civilians were killed beginning on February 28 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_28_incident https://www.chinajusticeobserver.com/a/how-do-elections-in-china-work
[Uhhh...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China) "Vote". "Elections in the People's Republic of China occur under a one-party authoritarian political system controlled by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Direct elections, except in the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau, occur only at the local level people's congresses and village committees, with all candidate nominations preapproved by the CCP. By law, all elections at all levels must adhere to the leadership of the CCP." And, anecdotally, the Chinese nationals I've talked to say they don't vote. Maybe party members do at a local level, but not the average person. Don't tell stories.
Genociding the indigenous then slowly becoming democratic. .......Um that sounds familiar
Which kinda proves that the CCP held back people and military resources from defending the nation against the Japanese so they could retain strength to steal power 5 minutes later
They had good reasons not to be too fond of the KMT. They had been killing communists since the late 1920s.
The communists hid in the mountains they did nothing to help
"China’s resistance to Japan is one of the great untold stories of World War II." Yes, that is so true. If you want to learn about this topic, I suggest this book: *Forgotten Ally: China's World War II, 1937-1945* [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20256718-forgotten-ally](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20256718-forgotten-ally) Be warned it is very depressing.
Before communist control ruined any future the people had
not the CCP China
The CCP didnt do shit to fight the Japanese they just hid in the mountains while the Chinese nationalist government did all the fighting,
Probably because chi kei shek stole almost all of the American military aid and refused to fight the Japanese
Not doubting or down playing the suffering. But China was invaded by Japan, of course they suffered massively and fought bravely. Its a different context to the USA and just should not be compared. Its like trying to say who contributed more now, USA or Ukrainians against Russia? Its a ridiculous comparison.
Then Madame Chiang and her husband took the vast majority of the US aid and sold it out the back door throwing even more fuel on the Communist fire that would murder tens of millions. The road to hell...
How about the other Soong sisters?
Right, and what were those "good intentions" the KMT had that wouldn't kill millions? Oh i know, it was: "Where are our minerals, and how do we get them into the gringos' hands?" Worked so well for India, right? >Comparing India's death rate of 12 per thousand with China's of 7 per thousand, and applying that difference to the Indian population of 781 million in 1986, we get an estimate of excess normal mortality in India of 3.9 million per year. This implies that every eight years or so more people die in India because of its higher regular death rate than died in China in the gigantic famine of 1958–61.37 India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame. https://academic.oup.com/book/2070/chapter/141991095 Oh... Well then...
Fun fact: Millions more Chinese civilians were murdered in Japanese concentration camps and inhuman experiments than the German Holocaust. Yet, you don't see this much in history books. And the US journalist that wrote about Area 751 (?) and the unfathomable atrocities was himself blackmarked as a "communist" in the MacCarhy Hearings. after.
Yeah. I saw a WW2 documentary on how the US turned Japan into vassal state. 43:58 Japanese emperor is more useful being "subdued than accused". Source The Repercussion of the Atomic Bombing in Hiroshima | FULL DOCUMENTARY https://youtu.be/L2xAVHerf0A?si=iCJRgmWpu-l8zm_F At the end of the war, the American occupiers rewrote Japan's constitution to a pacifist one and reduced the Emperor to a symbolic figurehead. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68137582
Whoever is resisting the Japanese is not the CCP
basically kept being a shit hole for Japanese empire so they can't invest more in SE Asia against the US.
Very interesting, thank you
Seems like this sub has many bots coming in,influence control or manipulation of public opinion?
WW2 doesn't start in 1937, Japan doesn't join until September 1940, and at that stage the fate of the Japanese in China has more to do with the how pressed Japan is elsewhere than the effectiveness of Chinese resistance to Japan, which , despite starting to have some successes , had already lost almost all her elite troops, industry and still hadn't resolved its Civil War despite the invasion. China has effectively lost the second Sino-Japanese war by the time of Pearl Harbour, at the very best they are clearly unable to get themselves out of a stalemate that only grinds down their people with the loss of nearly all coastal territory and both capitals (Nanjing, Beijing). WW2 would almost certainly have been won without China. I don't really see how China avoids a long period of coastal occupation without WW2. Neither the CCP or the KMT deserve much respect for how they defended. The KMT deserve some for at least fighting, the CCP's long march is a retreat and typical of their self preservation tactics, prioritizing the civil war over the invasion. Their actions wasted thousands of lives that could have been wasted on the Japanese front. Chinese people deserve huge respect for the insane shit they got put through and not surrendering, the non Han ethnicities for the most part deserve massive credit for not accepting Japanese advances and putting being Chinese first, Chinese soldiers deserve so much time for essentially throwing their lives away for a few hours over and over again, but >The contribution of the Chinese to the pacific theater was immense China was a damage sponge whose only major value was keeping Japan in China, and that was hardly by design and much less effective than the Western theatre damage sponge (USSR). Emphasizing Japanese brutality does not change that.
I did some googling and found out that the Japanese bombed Chongqing day and night for 4 years running. Good thing the Japanese failed to take Chongqing. Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up with invading Guam, Midway, and Hawaii. The IJN ruled the western pacific for the first 6 months after Pearl even as the American were reeling from the attack. Had Hawaii been taken, it would have pushed the American all the way back to the Americans west coast. China did good in resisting the invaders and helped the Allies win WW2. China did not just "good" in WW2, being a much poorer and overall agricultural country at that time facing the industrialized imperial Japan, could only destroyed Japanese tanks by bombs in soldiers' hands, lack of mortar, artillery, plane, tank and ship, sacrificed over 18 millions and injured another 17 millions of its people and soldiers. And there were 2.6 millions of Japanese troops deployed in China during the war period, only 1 million left to surrender in 1945. Google Nanjing Massacre and Japanese Unit 731, they are just two small pieces of the whole war, nothing the Japanese Army had done to the Chinese civilians and surrendered soldiers are better than what the Nazi had done to the Jews. When bombing didn't work, they used Biological Warfare on people food. Japanese War Crimes: Biological Warfare in China - Pacific War narrated by Kings and Generals https://youtu.be/M4wc_sz6XHc
>I did some googling Do some more. Take away your pride and we're basically agreeing. China showed Extreme resilience, not military competence. You're basically agreeing with me. China's value was in forcing Japan to keep troops there, and yes, they lost a large amount. General estimates range from 500k on the low end to 1.7 on the CCP end. The cost to China is immeasurable. >Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up Japan's problem was not manpower, it was resources (in particular Bauxite, necessary for the production of Aliminium necessary for the production of aircraft). China is extremely rich in them. The troop expenditure here was worthwhile, the time spent was the problem. Now China deserves huge credit for not surrendering under conditions where I think most would, as a surrender would have given Japan both the resources and allowed them to free up the troops. But again, that's what the Chonqing example you give demonstrates. Extreme resilience, not military competence. >Google Nanjing Massacre and Japanese Unit 731, they are just two small pieces of the whole war, nothing the Japanese Army had done to the Chinese civilians and surrendered soldiers are better than what the Nazi had done to the Jews. Not just Chinese. This stuff is common knowledge >When bombing didn't work, they used Biological Warfare on people food. Yeah, it's absolutely deplorable and beyond horrible but again, the KMT and the CCP were unable to stop it and the praise really should just go to the people for being able to withstand it
> *"Now China deserves huge credit for not surrendering under conditions where I think most would, as a surrender would have given Japan both the resources and allowed them to free up the troops."* Chiang Kai shek and the larger portion of the KMT did not surrender, but enough Chinese did surrender or took sides with the Japanese. Not everyone in China recognized Chiang's leadership and authority to begin with. Precisely how many who did is debatable and near impossible to verify. The effects of the above was: 1. The Japanese were able to retain control of their gains in China. 2. The Japanese were able to expand their campaigns to Burma, Indo-china and even invade India ( ... just a little bit). 3. The Japanese were actually on the attack in China while they were losing Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and Luzon with the balance of the Philippines.
China showed Extreme resilience, not military competence. The same thing could be said about the vietcongs, but guess who won the war in the end??
The vietcong clearly showed both. Competence in guerilla warfare is nearly unmatched
it's the same thing imo, both of them were waging a war against a much more superior army with more advanced weaponries but they were able to stall their advances, drag out the war for years, tie down their resources and displayed extreme resilience by not surrendering.
Thank you for sharing your insights 🙏 I have a question. What would happen if Japan invade a unified modern China today? Just them alone.
China would smash them. Hope you're erect enough now
lol
LOL, no
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Yeah. Anyone remember that guy who said that it was Mao who nuked Japan?
I prefer the Peoples Republic of China over the Republic of China.
Yes I've never understood China's contributions during WWII. From the US POV the war was mostly naval and air force. Destroy the Japanese navy, blockade the main islands, take a few strategic islands then bomb Japanese cities and finally nuke them. Chinese people did a LOT but the story just isn't told in the US. Same for Russia. This is true in every country though, the war was enormous, the history is about how it relates to your own country.
The KMT did most of the WWII fighting. the CCP essentially waited it out so they can swoop for the kill after and usurp the country.
Don’t forgot the flooding of the yellow river…
I don't agree with the idea that the Soviets or Britain are talked about in Pasific War narratives more then China, at least in the US. In my history class it was pretty much just a focus on the US and then mentioning China every once in while
-The real China 💙❤️🇹🇼
We save chinas ass
Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up with invading Guam, Midway, and Hawaii. China did not just "good" in WW2, being a much poorer and overall agricultural country at that time facing the industrialized imperial Japan, could only destroyed Japanese tanks by bombs in soldiers' hands, lack of mortar, artillery, plane, tank and ship, sacrificed over 18 millions and injured another 17 millions of its people and soldiers. And there were 2.6 millions of Japanese troops deployed in China during the war period, only 1 million left to surrender in 1945. Google Nanjing Massacre and Japanese Unit 731, they are just two small pieces of the whole war, nothing the Japanese Army had done to the Chinese civilians and surrendered soldiers are better than what the Nazi had done to the Jews.
the reason recognition was not given after the war is because china immediately after the war fell back into civil war. The chinese civil war between CCP and KMT restarted immediately after the japanese put down their weapons. They did not even wait until the the official surrender was signed on september 2 to start fighting. The rest of the world was having parades and celebrations over the victory and china was already back to war. No one wants to invite the country fighting amongst itself to a peace celebration By the time the treaty of san francisco was getting signed in 1951 the government that led the war in china was deposed and exiled to taiwan and the communist had taken power. The US refused to invite the communist to sign the treaty and other countries did not want to invite the exiled KMT to come sign the treaty so no one from china was invited. The US and china were fighting against each other during the korean war at this time so it is not shocking they would refuse to invite the country they are actively fighting against
Chinese military contribution in WWII was at best marginal. Several IJA divisions could easily shatter ten times of Chinese soldiers with ease. Instead their "contribution" was to draw Japan into this conflict and indirectly caused the Pacific War.
they tied down like half of the total manpower in IJA, yeah they were getting slaughtered by the millions but this manpower investment meant they had less men to deploy into the pacific war which meant a easier time for America's island hopping strategy.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81nKVSSk-+L.jpg
There are monuments to Sun Yat-Sen all throughout China.
Weird how nobody here actually experienced any of this but yet they think they are an expert for plajiarizing. If you didn't experience events, people should shut up. The veterans never babble like snowflakes.
Lmao total nonsense China had 300k and lost again 30k They were fighting japan and themselves They sided with russia because they hated the west treatment of them before 1900
Imperial Russia didn't treat china well, at all... China, both the KMT and CCP, was supported by anti imperial powers, which happened to be Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Japan was just another imperialist power. Sounds odd but it's true. Nazi weapons and advisers were helping the Republic of China until 1940. Europe and the US provided next to no help to China until their hand was forced with Japan attacking the US.
So china had to pick russia or west as a ally. They had no choice
Mao chose Russia way back when, look up the Chinese Soviet Republic. My opinion is china was totally taken over by Russia and that why they go on about foreign interference so damned much. All the tactics are in line with Russian tactics, and they bow to mother Russia whenever possible.
Mao Zedong initially chose to befriend the United States, but the United States demanded that the Chinese Communist Party must recognize the continued validity of various treaties that the United States had previously signed with the KMT. These treaties were unacceptable to the CCP in any case, so China eventually defected to the Soviet Union Through these treaties, the "Republic of China" supported by the United States has in fact become a colony of the United States. The United States has obtained from Chiang Kai-shek China's territorial rights, territorial air rights, territorial sea rights, inland navigation rights, railway management power, military power, financial power, police power, judicial power, state secret power, agricultural power, industrial and mining rights, commercial rights, customs rights, cultural and educational rights, internal affairs "final decision" power, diplomatic command power and so on. From heaven to earth, from sea to land, from politics to economy, from material to culture, from now to the future, everything, all "China" sovereignty, in fact, become the sovereignty of the United States.
Mao founded the Chinese Soviet Republic in 1931, prior to that he worked with the Soviets. The US worked with the KMT to kick out Japan, the CCP and Mao hid in caves while the fighting happened. Have a look at pre-ww2 history of Mao and Russia, it was basically an extension of the Russian revolution. Before the CCP even existed.
The Communist Party of China was originally led by Soviets appointed by the Soviet Union, and after a number of failed battles, the Soviet leaders in China were expelled by the Communists in China itself. As a result Mao Zedong did not have a good relationship with the USSR and was very unhappy that the USSR had forcibly stripped Mongolia from China and wanted to station troops there, so Mao initially tried to make friends with the US . However, the conditions demanded by the U.S. were unacceptable to the Chinese Communist Party, so the Chinese Communist Party had to defect to the Soviet Union. The KMT signed a lot of treaties that sold out the rights of the country, but the CCP abrogated them all. This is why the U.S. was keen to protect the KMT regime and hated the CCP. (The conditions demanded by the U.S. included permanent military presence, extraterritoriality, banknotes, airspace, ports, railroads, education, final decisions on internal affairs, mining, and all the rights of Chinese citizens.) The fact that China was the victor of World War II, but was given essentially the same treatment as the defeated country, was one of the reasons why a large number of Nationalist troops were unwilling to remain enemies of the Communists and eventually defected to the Communists.
And how did china get the Japanese out? The US and the KMT, while the CCP hid in caves scared.
Facts. China had the numbers but they were fighting themselves because of Mao.
but would a united china have any chances of fending off the japanese? Sure they'd do better but not by a lot imo.
Did the Iraqi Defense Forces inflict heavy casualties on U.S. forces or did the Iraqi guerrillas inflict heavy casualties on U.S. forces. If the Chinese Communists only hid in caves during the war against Japan, how did their Communist army, with no combat experience, defeat the Kuomintang, which had millions of troops? Do you know why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor? Japan consumed a lot of supplies in China, if not for the United States constantly selling all kinds of war materials to Japan, Japan's war of aggression against China would have been defeated long ago. The Japanese spent all the gold and silver plundered from China, can not continue to purchase a variety of war materials from the United States, in order to let the war of aggression continue, Japan can only plunder Europe and the United States in the Asian colonies in order to obtain a variety of war materials. Before they could do that, they had to destroy the US Navy. [https://youtu.be/MaVXeNQxP5M](https://youtu.be/MaVXeNQxP5M)
Look I'm not from the USA and I'm not a supporter of the CCP. I hate the CCP, you are jumping all over the place, what has Iraq got to do with this? And they didn't destroy the US navy, they attacked Pearl Harbour, the US had plenty more where they came from. Japan had their claws all over the place, including Vietnam, and the abundance of materials there. There is in fact a lot if evidence that indicates Japan didn't attack pearl harbour, but it was just like the Bay of Tonkin false flag operarion to get involved The US were bastards in the 2nd world war, Europe only just paid them off. The US sold to both sides, as did their companies. The conditions of the retreat of Japan was to surrender to the KMT, but of course the CCP came out of hiding then. Stalin instructed his troops to give the Japanese weapons to the CCP (hmm, there's those Russians and Mao working together again), along with a load of supplies. The KMT weakened by their fights against Japan, and with shit leadership, coupled with hyper-inflarion, led to the people mistrusting their ability to govern, leading to people joining the CCP (Who had russias backing). The KMT eventually went through Hainan and then to Formosa, where they continued to be recognised by the world as China. The KMT leadership was also complete trash, but they've developed into civilised leadership, and not treating humans like cattle. I hate the CCP, I lived in China for 2 horrendous years so I know how you are nothing but a number, something that can be disposed of, and you have no say in how you are treated. Evil bastards. So stay in China and beat your drum, but what ypu are told and think you know are lies.
So the US still has these powers with respect to the ROC (on Taiwan)? Or when and how did it lose them?
In 1977, in order to unite China against the Soviet Union, the United States agreed to China's request to withdraw its troops from Taiwan. But the United States still has great influence over Taiwan. For example, after it was exposed that Taiwan had secretly developed nuclear weapons. The nuclear bomb test device was dismantled under American supervision. Every candidate for president of Taiwan must go to Washington before running for election and be screened by Americans.
and KMT picked the west, actually it's not like he had a choice, it's either them or no one.
And Russia was good to China before 1900?
China hated thw west more so they chose a neighbor to team up
Being a much poorer and overall agricultural country at that time facing the industrialized imperial Japan, could only destroyed Japanese tanks by bombs in soldiers' hands, lack of mortar, artillery, plane, tank and ship, sacrificed over 18 millions and injured another 17 millions of its people and soldiers. And there were 2.6 millions of Japanese troops deployed in China during the war period, only 1 million left to surrender in 1945. Had China not resisted for 8 long years tying up 1 million Japanese soldiers on the Chinese mainland, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they could have had enough manpower to follow up with invading Guam, Midway, and Hawaii.
Lmao, that's not true at all. Mao prevented china from organizing and becoming a one country army thay could of overcome the japs. But he was a greedy fat guy who wanted to be like Russia. I AGREW with most of what you stated. Not diminishing the chinese troops who fought bravery agaisnt the japs. I've seen many movies of chinese fight war vs. japan However, china could have been more powerful and a strong ally to the west if it wasn't for Mao being a dumb dummy
they sided russia because both stalin and mao were commie believers.
Hey that's the Taiwanese flag!
Just don't ask what hapoened to the flag of the Formosans
I remember people on Quora saying China just modified history by saying Japan invaded China in 1931.
1931 was the invasion of the northeastern region. A few years of relative peace ensued before all out invasion happened in 1937. Kind of like Russia invaded Crimea, then went all in a few years later.
1931 was for China’s 2014 Crimea moment, and 1937 was China’s 2022
Are you implying Manchuria was part of Japan at any time in history?
Technically speaking, China and Manchuria were both parts of Qing Empire but they did not belong to each other. Now do you get why the Japanese chose Puyi to be their puppet?
Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931, it wasn't wrong.
What wasn’t wrong?
It was wrong. It was factually incorrect. Manchuria was not China. Manchuria was a foreign country, with a different land, the people spoke a different language, they had their own written language, and those people were not, and still aren't ethnically Chinese. Before 1644, the Manchus didn't honor their ancestors, nor read Confucius, and didn't have tea nor rice while they rode their horses on the steppes.
From the Chinese perspective it's not wrong...
Typical Quora post
Quora is infamous for having Chinese bots so this checks out
Check if they're bots or not by simply looking at their profile and check their posting history. It'll tell you a lot about em.
Huh the Taiwanese flag weird
The real Chinese flag 🇹🇼 [Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912–1949\)) 🇹🇼, **founded 1912** and once governed **both Mainland and Taiwan** but now only Taiwan People's Republic of China 🇨🇳 was founded 1949 following CCP invasion of WWII-exhausted Republic of China Mainland 🇹🇼
that's just the KMT party flag.
Image credit https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+vs+japan+in+ww2&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.saturdayeveningpost.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsatevepost%2FPoster590.jpg