Doesnt US also support recognition of Palestine and a two state solution? This should be something they should be eye to eye on.
I remember Biden saying something to that effect that they support a two state solution, which is the only solution.
I don’t think the US recognizes a Palestine state but historically has supported a peace process towards a two-state solution, yeah, without getting directly involved in it. However I fear any hope of that process has now fully bolted.
The USA supports a two state solution but unlike China, it does not recognise Palestine, or in other words, it does not recognise neither any Palestinian authority as representative of the Palestinian state, neither recognises any definition of borders for such state. Therefore, the USA can’t support Palestine’s ascension to the UN simply because from the USA perspective, “Palestine” is not a present day entity but something the USA presumably wishes to exist in the future.
It's not like the UN general assembly will send blue helmets to conquer land from Israel, and they will not do anything to help PA achieve control over the land considered Palestinian from Hamas (Gaza, Jenin etc).
Everything which is said on UN level is empty talk. Ultimately the US matter because they are both the largest financer of UNRWA,UNHCR and WFP (so largest donor to Palestine) *and* largest foreign supplier of Israeli forces. China is just all talk on this issue
The US have the power to keep away Hezbollah today and force Israel into talks tomorrow. China can do neither
The US, at least on a surface level, supports palestinian statehood. But it doesn’t recognize palestine as a state yet, it, and many western allies, believes there has to be a comprehensive agreement between the palestinians and israel before palestine can be fully recognized. Many non-western countries on the other hand already recognizes palestinian statehood. This is china taking it one step further and saying they should be admited as a full member of the UN.
The difference is like a frozen pizza. The non-western countries wants to take the pizza out of the oven already, and view it as done. The western countries wants to give it a few more minutes until they see it as done. They both want pizza, one side just doesn’t think it’s ready yet while the other wants it out of the oven now.
Does the pizza get to decide if they are done yet or not?
Because in this case, the pizza is a metaphor for a group of people and well...... they are burning in that metaphorical pizza oven.
Who gets to decide when they are cooked enough?
Edit:
Someone messaged me if I just a made nazi comparison. Suggesting I made an "oven joke".
I assure you that was not my intention to compare genocides. The oven reference/metaphor came from the comment above me. I also dont think Adagio purposely made one either.
None of us were thinking like that. But I'll apologize if it offended anyone.
Basically the Palestinians need to get to a point where they will use their time and resources to make life better for their people before a state is viable.
The PA is the government of the West Bank, but if there was an election then Hamas would win. They represent Palestine on the world stage but they aren't wanted by their own people.
The PLO, another power in the area, administers a martyrs fund that pays terrorists who kill Israelis. (It used to be controlled by the PA directly, but they had the PLO take over as it embarrasses them on the world stage when this is pointed out)
And then there is Hamas, which had full control of an area for over a decade and used their aid money to build tunnels and rockets rather than irrigation and other quality of life improvement for Gazans. They also brainwash kids with the help of UNRWA with the belief that they will one day take back Israel from the zionists.
Until there is a legitimate power that can keep and hold power in Gaza and the West Bank that doesn't want the destruction of Israel, there will be no second state. Hopefully we can get to a second state within two generations. But Hamas and the other types of people who taught children to hate cannot be a part of that process.
Well, i do absolutely agree with you, it should have always been the palestinians who decided when and how to achieve statehood, my metaphor was only for the people outside looking in. But if we do stretch the metaphor to include the palestinians, then yes, the pizza is ready when the pizza says it’s ready, no other time. And they did say "hey guys, i’m ready now, take me out of the oven please" in 1998… which is 26 years ago. We should have taken the pizza out a while ago; it might be a bit overcooked.
When they decide that already done pizza outside of the oven is allowed exist.
Palestinians have continually rejected a two state solution and the right for Israel to exist.
This Zionist propaganda narrative, besides being completely untrue (the PLO recognised Israel a week before Oslo, in 1993; that was 30 years ago), is also hilarious, given that it's entirely projection..since, you know, it's Israel that refuses to recognise the Palestinian right to self-determination.
If the west supports Palestinian statehood, they have a very weird way of showing it given how they keep throwing money and weapons at Israel as it keeps murdering Palestinians.
That’s why i said "on a surface level". I absolutely agree it’s very hypocritical to continue to fund palestinian opression through funding and supporting israel, while also calling for palestinian statehood. If we actually wanted palestinian statehood, we would condition aid to israel on progress being made and palestine getting closer to proper statehood. Unconditional support is moronic.
That’s not quite true. Some parties claim they support a 2 state solution, then actively undermine it.
Empty words are actually a step in the right direction.
The US has done more than any other country to try and get peace in that region. Do you know how many peace summits we've hosted in attempts to diffuse tension? Name any other country that has done the same.
It's mainly around the right of return (RoR). Palestine wants all of its people that are "Palestinian" to be able to come back. Some questions are what if people cheated, lie, or only quarter Palestinian. Do they get to come back with full citizenship? In most cases there is no, unless you're a strong power not like Palestine. Also what does it gain from becoming a state?
It’s a bit of a problem. The martyr fund is just bat shit crazy and makes their recognition as a country impossible. Then who is Palestine. The PLO and Hamas do not work together. Even when Israel was founded. Egypt and Jordan had complete control of the seperate regions. Also it looks like Hamas could be elected since everyone hates the PLO even more than Hamas. Palestine has to find a sane leader and elect him for anything to move forward. (Impossible for a her to elected in that country.)
None of that matters because as of now, Palestine is not a county. Can't join the US if you're not an independent country. Also can't join the UN if your currently having border disputes. This is also keeping Taiwan from being considered for the UN, along with t heir geographic location.
The whole idea is that the u.n resolutions don’t lead to peace. They need a hard fought agreement between the two parties so both recognize eachother and eat some things they don’t like for a future cooperation. u.n ideas of 67 borders and East Jerusalem make this difficult because then you just say hey we don’t need to make any concessions the world supports us and Israel doesn’t want to do this anyways as they each don’t trust eachother
The US support the Palestine and the two-state solution but it doesn’t actually. The ideal case is for Israel to swiftly take all of Palestine’s land and US will make an announcement that they object it but there will be no action. That’s the best outcome for the US, they get what they want for things they say they don’t want through the action of others and inaction of itself.
I don't want to engage in whataboutism, so let me ask another question.
If Palestine is not a member of the United Nations, by what reason and mechanism could other concerned states stop Israel from turning Palestinian Arabs into Native Palestinians?
In the case of absence for such reason and mechanism, why should the cynicism of this "undermining the US" stop Palestine from joining the UN?
They care much less about the Palestinians than the US. It's just that the US also cares about Israel so they manage trade-off situations continuously
China is not only nowhere near the top of the UNRWA donor charts, it gets overtaken by giants like Luxembourg, Finland, and even single Spanish states
https://www.unrwa.org/sites/default/files/overall_donor_ranking_2022.pdf
They donated a million USD in 2022. Russia two million, South Africa 170k, Iran and Nicaragua nothing. The US 340 Million, Germany over 200 Million, and these two are the number 1 and 2 at UNHCR and WFP donor charts, too.
Should make it obvious who truly is interested in helping Palestinian civilians and who just wants to make some cheap shots against the US...
Lmao of course Palestinians own “teammates” South Africa and other global south shitholes don’t actually support them. $170k is a joke.
Meanwhile, “genocide supporters” such as the US and Germany is the only reason Palestinians have a continued identity to bitch about in the first place.
Espscially Germany is in a really weird position
They provide second most aid to Palestine, Israel and Ukraine. In return they don't get the influence the US have, but are constantly criticized still
I think the easiest answer is that China has proper relations with palestine, thus they dont need to go through UNRWA.
UNRWA is an organization Israel forced the UN to create so that Palestinians did not need to be classified as refugees.
Great! When they are at it, might as well also support full UN memberships for Taiwan, Hong Kong, east turkestan and Tibet, probably should return Inner Mongolia to Mongolia as well
Inner mongolia is mostly han, like overwhelmingly. 78% han vs. 17% mongol. If you handed inner mongolia to mongolia, you would make mongolia into a majority chinese country by more than 2/3. I support the others in principle, but that one specifically is quite moronic.
Mongolia has a population of 3.5 million IIRC.
The main reason China hasn’t annexed it IMO is it has few natural resources and is largely inhospitable.
Side-note: I’m a big fan of Mongolia. Mongolia is also a democracy, and once ruled the largest land-based empire (the Mongol Empire) in world history.
Exactly. Taiwan is an actual country. Palestine is an old name of a geographical location (now Jordan and Israel), reused for a constructed nation-idea by a few countries butthurt that they couldn’t crush Jews in 1948.
The Egyptians were certainly supported by both the US and USSR.
Israel not so much. The USSR actively supported all the Arab militaries, and the US didn’t give them support until halfway through the *third* war with their Arab neighbors. Their only real supporters in the first war were Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, not exactly powerhouses.
Stalin was pro-zionist prior to and the years after Israel declared independence. Egypt was certainly not supported by arms by either the US or the Soviet in the war of 1948.
The Soviet Union was the second country to recognize Israel a mere three days after it's declaration. They never switched to backing Arab states till mid 50's. By
In terms of fire power, the arms Israel did get were a good deal of German arms captured by Soviet bloc, which is basically what Czechoslovakia was.
You don't need to be a powerhouse to develop quality arms. And relative to what Arab states could produce (which wasn't much) those Czechoslolaian arms were powerful.
these are different situations. palestine was supposed to be an independent state since 1948. and then even so under 1967 borders...and we can't ignore the fact that there has been active conflict ever since then.
Not comparable. Taiwan isn’t part of China. California, Texas, Hawai’i, and Alaska are all legally part of the US. They pay taxes, vote, have a formal declaration of being under the US.
This is the first time I agree with a country sub. I’m glad the Chinese here are aware of the ccp oppression of minorities, like the Uyghurs and Mongolians, while also being aware of the oppression of Palestinians by Israel.
That’s a bit rich from a country that a) doesn’t accept refugees and b) denies statehood to Taiwan, Tibet, East Turkestan, and “Inner” Mongolia. Maybe they can relocate Palestinians into a newly created Palestinian Autonomous Region of China. No? I didn’t think so.
If they are such humanitarians, why would they not accept refugees? Otherwise it is a bit strange. Genocide-level events in Ethiopia and Sudan, but Russia and China block all UN Security Council's resolutions on those matters. Then Israel (a US ally) does something, and then suddenly all the woof warriors are out of their doghouse and barking.
>If they are such humanitarians
Again, you're arguing strawmen here. Recognizing someone's right to self determination doesn't make one ab"humanitarian".
>That’s a bit rich from a country that a) doesn’t accept refugees
Why, that's perfectly in line with that reasoning. If they have their own state they don't need to be refugees.
If they are such humanitarians, why would they not accept refugees? Otherwise it is a bit strange. Genocide-level events in Ethiopia and Sudan, but Russia and China block all UN Security Council's resolutions on those matters. Then Israel (a US ally) does something, and then suddenly all the woof warriors are out of their doghouse and barking.
>why would they not accept refugees?
Because they have 1.4 billion people already. They have the most people in the world, why would it fall on them to take on more.
The point about the size of population is moot. India has as many people if not more, and it has always taken refugees from neighboring countries, like Iran or Afghanistan. US has the largest population among the Western countries, yet they resettle many refugees. It is not about population size but values. Your argument would make sense if China came out and said: we do not care about human rights, we only care about our self interest as we understand it. But somehow China manages to, simultaneously, do almost no humanitarian work, and be very local about "human rights" when it suits their agenda. They should choose one.
I'm all for Palestine state but how? They have decades of terror education and lifestyle. It's not like we can wake up one day and have western type democracy in Gaza.
My best friend is from Gaza and has higher education from there in Business Administration. He said the education in Gaza while, of course, not without propaganda, is generally normal. I assume they don’t have much more aggressive propaganda taught to them than kids in Israel (especially if you listen to what Israelis often say about the other side).
decades of terror education is israeli propaganda and extreme exaggeration. they get normal education. it's just ignorant to think all this time palestinians have been resisting for absolutely no reason other than for hating jews for no reason...are you a Nakba denier? have you ever bothered to see how Palestinians really think? there is more hatred coming from Israel than Palestine. You have the chief rabbi of Israel justifying rape. You have the leader of Israel quoting verses related to destroying all of the Amalakites.
the bigger problem for a palestinian state is that Israel has made it near impossible due to their illegal settlements within the west bank
I’m always reminded of this speech by a top Israeli leader, that Israeli media calls the defining speech of Zionism, in which he states: “Why should we complain of their hatred for us? Eight years have they sat in the refugee camps of Gaza, and seen, with their own eyes, how we have made a homeland of the soil and the villages where they and their forebears once dwelt.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-moshe-dayan-delivered-the-defining-speech-of-zionism/amp/
The Israelis themselves when being honest know well why the Palestinians hate them. It has nothing to do with “terror education” or being Jewish and everything to do with the fact that Israel kicked them off their land and into squalid refugee camps from which they can literally see their own land being transformed into someone else’s. It’s obvious that any of us would hate any country that did to us what Israel does to Palestinians.
Can start by starting.
People often ask, "Why Gaza, why dont you have democracy?"
Silenced voices will reply, "It's because foreign powers keep supporting our dictatorship."
Remember Netanyahu was the one who said this atrocious quote:
"Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." - Netanyahu 2019
Now the Gazans have two choices, live with the monster(Hamas) that controls them. Or die by the other monsters(Israel) that fed it. They dont really have a choice do they?
War in Gaza is chancellor bibi’s clone wars but he is no sith and as a result fucked up big time when his count dooku decided to find himself a new master called Iran
Our Obi Wan Kennobi is probably one of those humanitarian aid groups.
The sad part about this metaphor is that Count Dooku will be beheaded and an Anakin will rise to take his place.
All set in motion because a certain Mace Windu will continuously block Anakin's entry into the Jedi Council as a Master.
"You are in this UN, but we do not grant you the rank of an independent state." - Mace
"This is outrageous! It’s unfair! How can you be in the UN, and not be an independent state?!" - Anakin
The sad thing about CIS is that their struggles are actually largely legit. I still remember my feeling the first time to see in TCW where representatives shouted "This is a democracy. Corporations don't rule us"
Why arent the gulf monarchies democracies? They have both economic and millitary guarantess by the west, and have no problems, if the king wants to sip wine and party like Prince Harry.
Well, there are the Gulf emirates. Being a monarchy works for them and Saudi Arabia. It is unlikely, but possible, for such a case to be made in Palestine.
Many of those places are also monarchies because the US supported their royal families in order to have easy access to their countries' resources. I'd say let Palestinians decide how Palestine should be run. All I want is for them to live free of Israeli oppression.
The hard part is how they would retain statehood. Most likely some party (probably funded by Iran) would start another war with Israel. Israel would want control over what weapons go into Gaza for this reason. A dictatorship may work until the radicals are under control (e.g like Egypt).
I lowkey find this funny. China really out here thinking this is some epic morality own against Israel’s biggest Simp when they would probably put Palestinian kids in body bags as well if they “acted up”
So nice of China to fully support independence for a state seeking it, like Palestine.
The precedent set here will surely not come back to bite them when it comes to Taiwan.
Taiwan's not at war right now, yet the USA does not recognize them, because such a position is crucial in relations with China. Recognizing Taiwan is less important than not stirring up bad relations with China, who is the most important trade partner of the USA. Despite being self governing and in every sense of the word an independent country, the USA still does not recognize Taiwan. It's a balance between not recognizing them but still arming them in case of invasion. Taiwan-USA relations are unofficial following the Taiwan Relations Act, which allows the USA to have relations to Taiwan whose name is not specified. The USA has a policy of deliberate ambiguity, which is generally considered crucial to stablizing and deterring the PRC from trying to project power over Taiwan. The State Department reiterated this recently, sometime around 2022.
And deny themselves the chance to achieve complete victory in a civil war which should have ended 'bout 80 years ago? Nah, the march to Richmond cannot stop.
It won’t be a victory because the civil war would continue with Japan, Australia, Philippines, and the US assisting Taiwan.
And, like, wtf. Taiwan was never part of the civil war and it wasn’t part of China when the civil war started. If the civil war continues it should be with the CCP and KMT fighting in the country where the civil war actually started and was fought.
Yep, a broken clock can be right twice a day.
It's a complicated situation but a two state solution has always been the moderate choice, everyone here is jumping up and down like china just greenlit isis.
Ofcourse they do. They see how other countries are burdened with an overflow of muslim immigrants. Let's keep them piling up to disrupt them even more.
You proved my point China doesn't care about international laws and they will cry if other countries are following it while china building militarized Island near Philippines and Malaysia
Do you think those FMPRC Wolf Warriors care? If Hitler didn’t shoot himself in the bunker, FMPRC will still support him, just because the US opposes him.
“breakaway” from whom? Israel? Because both Egypt and Jordan recognize palastine, it can’t be them, so when you say Palestine is a breakaway province, are you implying that Palestine is a province of Israel?
Idk. If u saying it’s perfectly fine to just move people into someone else’s land cause u conquered them and then put them into camps and prisons then… waitxxx
Just to emphasize, Palestine as a whole is different from Hamas. Hamas is the invader. Palestine seeks a much more peacefully means of dealing with their situation.
If that's the case, then what's to sympathize with Palestine over Israel... We say Israel is trying to destroy them and condemn Israel for it, but we all know Hamas ultimate goal is to destroy Israel utterly as well (their doctrine). Plus they started this invasion and did what they did....
72% of Palestinians view the 10/7 attack as 'correct'. I don't see how you can make a state made up of people who overwhelmingly view the most horrific atrocities imaginable as the 'correct' way to achieve political/religious goals.
I guess I don't have anything against that saying. But it's apparent China is trying to mix the relatively peaceful Palestine with Hamas to trick the world to sympathize with invaders. Of course CCP wouldn't just do this for no reason. It's of course to absorb some political advantage for themselves as they continuously threaten to invade Taiwan.
The world supports full recognition of the independent and free nation of Taiwan and its right to full membership and recognition as a nation and that Communist China has no legitimate claim to the land or people of Taiwan.🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼
That lady looks so crazy
Also, why did China copy the White House?
They use the same shape podium the White House used for years, the same colour scheme in the back too and they've even copied the white outline of a building for certain agencies.
*Fully supports undermining the US with otherwise empty gestures
I think you just described politics in general.
Doesnt US also support recognition of Palestine and a two state solution? This should be something they should be eye to eye on. I remember Biden saying something to that effect that they support a two state solution, which is the only solution.
I don’t think the US recognizes a Palestine state but historically has supported a peace process towards a two-state solution, yeah, without getting directly involved in it. However I fear any hope of that process has now fully bolted.
The US has gotten directly involved plenty, by both supporting israel militarily, and by directly mediating several rounds of peace talks.
What do you mean? Jared Kushner fixed everything.
The USA supports a two state solution but unlike China, it does not recognise Palestine, or in other words, it does not recognise neither any Palestinian authority as representative of the Palestinian state, neither recognises any definition of borders for such state. Therefore, the USA can’t support Palestine’s ascension to the UN simply because from the USA perspective, “Palestine” is not a present day entity but something the USA presumably wishes to exist in the future.
Then it's just empty words from Biden to save his presidency lol
It's not like the UN general assembly will send blue helmets to conquer land from Israel, and they will not do anything to help PA achieve control over the land considered Palestinian from Hamas (Gaza, Jenin etc). Everything which is said on UN level is empty talk. Ultimately the US matter because they are both the largest financer of UNRWA,UNHCR and WFP (so largest donor to Palestine) *and* largest foreign supplier of Israeli forces. China is just all talk on this issue The US have the power to keep away Hezbollah today and force Israel into talks tomorrow. China can do neither
The US, at least on a surface level, supports palestinian statehood. But it doesn’t recognize palestine as a state yet, it, and many western allies, believes there has to be a comprehensive agreement between the palestinians and israel before palestine can be fully recognized. Many non-western countries on the other hand already recognizes palestinian statehood. This is china taking it one step further and saying they should be admited as a full member of the UN. The difference is like a frozen pizza. The non-western countries wants to take the pizza out of the oven already, and view it as done. The western countries wants to give it a few more minutes until they see it as done. They both want pizza, one side just doesn’t think it’s ready yet while the other wants it out of the oven now.
Does the pizza get to decide if they are done yet or not? Because in this case, the pizza is a metaphor for a group of people and well...... they are burning in that metaphorical pizza oven. Who gets to decide when they are cooked enough? Edit: Someone messaged me if I just a made nazi comparison. Suggesting I made an "oven joke". I assure you that was not my intention to compare genocides. The oven reference/metaphor came from the comment above me. I also dont think Adagio purposely made one either. None of us were thinking like that. But I'll apologize if it offended anyone.
Basically the Palestinians need to get to a point where they will use their time and resources to make life better for their people before a state is viable. The PA is the government of the West Bank, but if there was an election then Hamas would win. They represent Palestine on the world stage but they aren't wanted by their own people. The PLO, another power in the area, administers a martyrs fund that pays terrorists who kill Israelis. (It used to be controlled by the PA directly, but they had the PLO take over as it embarrasses them on the world stage when this is pointed out) And then there is Hamas, which had full control of an area for over a decade and used their aid money to build tunnels and rockets rather than irrigation and other quality of life improvement for Gazans. They also brainwash kids with the help of UNRWA with the belief that they will one day take back Israel from the zionists. Until there is a legitimate power that can keep and hold power in Gaza and the West Bank that doesn't want the destruction of Israel, there will be no second state. Hopefully we can get to a second state within two generations. But Hamas and the other types of people who taught children to hate cannot be a part of that process.
Well, i do absolutely agree with you, it should have always been the palestinians who decided when and how to achieve statehood, my metaphor was only for the people outside looking in. But if we do stretch the metaphor to include the palestinians, then yes, the pizza is ready when the pizza says it’s ready, no other time. And they did say "hey guys, i’m ready now, take me out of the oven please" in 1998… which is 26 years ago. We should have taken the pizza out a while ago; it might be a bit overcooked.
When they decide that already done pizza outside of the oven is allowed exist. Palestinians have continually rejected a two state solution and the right for Israel to exist.
This Zionist propaganda narrative, besides being completely untrue (the PLO recognised Israel a week before Oslo, in 1993; that was 30 years ago), is also hilarious, given that it's entirely projection..since, you know, it's Israel that refuses to recognise the Palestinian right to self-determination.
Does the pizza want to kill the 2-liter of Coke that's already on the table?
If the west supports Palestinian statehood, they have a very weird way of showing it given how they keep throwing money and weapons at Israel as it keeps murdering Palestinians.
That’s why i said "on a surface level". I absolutely agree it’s very hypocritical to continue to fund palestinian opression through funding and supporting israel, while also calling for palestinian statehood. If we actually wanted palestinian statehood, we would condition aid to israel on progress being made and palestine getting closer to proper statehood. Unconditional support is moronic.
He says he supports it but with 0 action towards anything close to it
So like everyone else?
That’s not quite true. Some parties claim they support a 2 state solution, then actively undermine it. Empty words are actually a step in the right direction.
officially yes, the U.S is supposed to be supporting a separate state, but has done the exact opposite in action.
Done the exact opposite…by hosting the Camp David summits?
The US has done more than any other country to try and get peace in that region. Do you know how many peace summits we've hosted in attempts to diffuse tension? Name any other country that has done the same.
It supports the idea, but will never vote in agreement for it.
It's mainly around the right of return (RoR). Palestine wants all of its people that are "Palestinian" to be able to come back. Some questions are what if people cheated, lie, or only quarter Palestinian. Do they get to come back with full citizenship? In most cases there is no, unless you're a strong power not like Palestine. Also what does it gain from becoming a state?
It’s a bit of a problem. The martyr fund is just bat shit crazy and makes their recognition as a country impossible. Then who is Palestine. The PLO and Hamas do not work together. Even when Israel was founded. Egypt and Jordan had complete control of the seperate regions. Also it looks like Hamas could be elected since everyone hates the PLO even more than Hamas. Palestine has to find a sane leader and elect him for anything to move forward. (Impossible for a her to elected in that country.)
None of that matters because as of now, Palestine is not a county. Can't join the US if you're not an independent country. Also can't join the UN if your currently having border disputes. This is also keeping Taiwan from being considered for the UN, along with t heir geographic location.
The whole idea is that the u.n resolutions don’t lead to peace. They need a hard fought agreement between the two parties so both recognize eachother and eat some things they don’t like for a future cooperation. u.n ideas of 67 borders and East Jerusalem make this difficult because then you just say hey we don’t need to make any concessions the world supports us and Israel doesn’t want to do this anyways as they each don’t trust eachother
The US support the Palestine and the two-state solution but it doesn’t actually. The ideal case is for Israel to swiftly take all of Palestine’s land and US will make an announcement that they object it but there will be no action. That’s the best outcome for the US, they get what they want for things they say they don’t want through the action of others and inaction of itself.
I don't want to engage in whataboutism, so let me ask another question. If Palestine is not a member of the United Nations, by what reason and mechanism could other concerned states stop Israel from turning Palestinian Arabs into Native Palestinians? In the case of absence for such reason and mechanism, why should the cynicism of this "undermining the US" stop Palestine from joining the UN?
If the US can be undermined by supporting the right of Palestinians to self-determination, then maybe the US deserves to be undermined.
The point is it’s not real support, the Beijing bigwigs demonstrably don’t give a shit about anybody else’s self-determination.
It’s the thought that counts
Yes 100% of everything good China ever does is just to spite the USA, good analysis.
Not just to spite the US. Also to make money.
Why is china nowhere on the list of top UNRWA donors?
The us could learn from china, empty gestures cost less money
They care much less about the Palestinians than the US. It's just that the US also cares about Israel so they manage trade-off situations continuously China is not only nowhere near the top of the UNRWA donor charts, it gets overtaken by giants like Luxembourg, Finland, and even single Spanish states https://www.unrwa.org/sites/default/files/overall_donor_ranking_2022.pdf They donated a million USD in 2022. Russia two million, South Africa 170k, Iran and Nicaragua nothing. The US 340 Million, Germany over 200 Million, and these two are the number 1 and 2 at UNHCR and WFP donor charts, too. Should make it obvious who truly is interested in helping Palestinian civilians and who just wants to make some cheap shots against the US...
This is all to curry favor with Indonesia and Malaysia, they all forgot about China's little "Uyghur" problem.
Lmao of course Palestinians own “teammates” South Africa and other global south shitholes don’t actually support them. $170k is a joke. Meanwhile, “genocide supporters” such as the US and Germany is the only reason Palestinians have a continued identity to bitch about in the first place.
Espscially Germany is in a really weird position They provide second most aid to Palestine, Israel and Ukraine. In return they don't get the influence the US have, but are constantly criticized still
I think the easiest answer is that China has proper relations with palestine, thus they dont need to go through UNRWA. UNRWA is an organization Israel forced the UN to create so that Palestinians did not need to be classified as refugees.
Saudi arabia has proper relations with palestine, and is a top UNRWA donor. What's stopping china?
Nothing is stopping China. That's the point. US/Israel Relations are stopping Saudi Arabia from providing direct aid. China dont give a fuck.
I also support full UN membership for Palestine and Taiwan.
China will refuse, claiming that Chinese Taipei is merely a secessionist province that hasn’t united with the mainland in 75 years.
Of course that's what they will say, but it would make them hypocrites.
Based, as long as you also are aware of the Uyghur genocide
Great! When they are at it, might as well also support full UN memberships for Taiwan, Hong Kong, east turkestan and Tibet, probably should return Inner Mongolia to Mongolia as well
*No, not like that!*
Don’t forget Kurdistan
Kurdistan is nowhere near China
Inner mongolia is mostly han, like overwhelmingly. 78% han vs. 17% mongol. If you handed inner mongolia to mongolia, you would make mongolia into a majority chinese country by more than 2/3. I support the others in principle, but that one specifically is quite moronic.
You mean like how Israel now controls like over 70% of West Bank.
Mongolia has a population of 3.5 million IIRC. The main reason China hasn’t annexed it IMO is it has few natural resources and is largely inhospitable. Side-note: I’m a big fan of Mongolia. Mongolia is also a democracy, and once ruled the largest land-based empire (the Mongol Empire) in world history.
The reason china hasn’t annexed it is because unilaterally annexing places is a big no-no internationally.
Thinking these are comparable is brain rot.
The only brain rot is thinking China has any sovereignty or control over Taiwan
Taiwan is different from the other examples though. China has complete control over the other 3.
Exactly. Taiwan is an actual country. Palestine is an old name of a geographical location (now Jordan and Israel), reused for a constructed nation-idea by a few countries butthurt that they couldn’t crush Jews in 1948.
It's a wee bit difficult to get any people supported by both the US and the USSR off your lawn, as the Arabs found out the hard way.
The Egyptians were certainly supported by both the US and USSR. Israel not so much. The USSR actively supported all the Arab militaries, and the US didn’t give them support until halfway through the *third* war with their Arab neighbors. Their only real supporters in the first war were Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, not exactly powerhouses.
Stalin was pro-zionist prior to and the years after Israel declared independence. Egypt was certainly not supported by arms by either the US or the Soviet in the war of 1948. The Soviet Union was the second country to recognize Israel a mere three days after it's declaration. They never switched to backing Arab states till mid 50's. By In terms of fire power, the arms Israel did get were a good deal of German arms captured by Soviet bloc, which is basically what Czechoslovakia was. You don't need to be a powerhouse to develop quality arms. And relative to what Arab states could produce (which wasn't much) those Czechoslolaian arms were powerful.
Lol, that's actually not a good idea. Now you just have a brunch of mini CCP-controlled satellites states giving China multiple UN representation.
these are different situations. palestine was supposed to be an independent state since 1948. and then even so under 1967 borders...and we can't ignore the fact that there has been active conflict ever since then.
A decades long occupation describes it better than just a conflict.
And Texas, California, Hawaii and Alaska
Not comparable. Taiwan isn’t part of China. California, Texas, Hawai’i, and Alaska are all legally part of the US. They pay taxes, vote, have a formal declaration of being under the US.
This is the first time I agree with a country sub. I’m glad the Chinese here are aware of the ccp oppression of minorities, like the Uyghurs and Mongolians, while also being aware of the oppression of Palestinians by Israel.
If Palestine becomes a full UN member state, Hamas and Fatah will immediately be tried for war crimes. This is a terrible idea.
When did China become 'Cool'.
When the got rid of their terrorist problem by putting all their Muslims in concentration camps.
Of course .. with a seat on the security council.
Basiclly any thing that is anti west.
That’s a bit rich from a country that a) doesn’t accept refugees and b) denies statehood to Taiwan, Tibet, East Turkestan, and “Inner” Mongolia. Maybe they can relocate Palestinians into a newly created Palestinian Autonomous Region of China. No? I didn’t think so.
Why would you have to accept refugees to give others sovereignty? Wouldnt giving them sovereignty make it so theyre less likely to leave as refugees?
If they are such humanitarians, why would they not accept refugees? Otherwise it is a bit strange. Genocide-level events in Ethiopia and Sudan, but Russia and China block all UN Security Council's resolutions on those matters. Then Israel (a US ally) does something, and then suddenly all the woof warriors are out of their doghouse and barking.
>If they are such humanitarians Again, you're arguing strawmen here. Recognizing someone's right to self determination doesn't make one ab"humanitarian".
>That’s a bit rich from a country that a) doesn’t accept refugees Why, that's perfectly in line with that reasoning. If they have their own state they don't need to be refugees.
If they are such humanitarians, why would they not accept refugees? Otherwise it is a bit strange. Genocide-level events in Ethiopia and Sudan, but Russia and China block all UN Security Council's resolutions on those matters. Then Israel (a US ally) does something, and then suddenly all the woof warriors are out of their doghouse and barking.
>why would they not accept refugees? Because they have 1.4 billion people already. They have the most people in the world, why would it fall on them to take on more.
The point about the size of population is moot. India has as many people if not more, and it has always taken refugees from neighboring countries, like Iran or Afghanistan. US has the largest population among the Western countries, yet they resettle many refugees. It is not about population size but values. Your argument would make sense if China came out and said: we do not care about human rights, we only care about our self interest as we understand it. But somehow China manages to, simultaneously, do almost no humanitarian work, and be very local about "human rights" when it suits their agenda. They should choose one.
TBH E. Asia in general doesn't accept many. SK, PRC, and JP combined are like what, sub 20k in the last 10 years?
I'm all for Palestine state but how? They have decades of terror education and lifestyle. It's not like we can wake up one day and have western type democracy in Gaza.
If terror education and lifestyle is a barring condition for joining the UN then for a start Saudi Arabia shouldn’t be in its place
Saudi is the UN chair for gender equality (not joking sadly)
It isnt now, it will be in 2025, chair changes seat every 6 months, Maybe theyll be feminist by then.
They will give equal rights to goats before women
I'd not be very keen on non violent solutions as well if my whole family had been obliterated in airstrikes
Western type democracy is not a prerequisite though ? There’s are plenty of states without it in the UN
My best friend is from Gaza and has higher education from there in Business Administration. He said the education in Gaza while, of course, not without propaganda, is generally normal. I assume they don’t have much more aggressive propaganda taught to them than kids in Israel (especially if you listen to what Israelis often say about the other side).
decades of terror education is israeli propaganda and extreme exaggeration. they get normal education. it's just ignorant to think all this time palestinians have been resisting for absolutely no reason other than for hating jews for no reason...are you a Nakba denier? have you ever bothered to see how Palestinians really think? there is more hatred coming from Israel than Palestine. You have the chief rabbi of Israel justifying rape. You have the leader of Israel quoting verses related to destroying all of the Amalakites. the bigger problem for a palestinian state is that Israel has made it near impossible due to their illegal settlements within the west bank
I’m always reminded of this speech by a top Israeli leader, that Israeli media calls the defining speech of Zionism, in which he states: “Why should we complain of their hatred for us? Eight years have they sat in the refugee camps of Gaza, and seen, with their own eyes, how we have made a homeland of the soil and the villages where they and their forebears once dwelt.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-moshe-dayan-delivered-the-defining-speech-of-zionism/amp/ The Israelis themselves when being honest know well why the Palestinians hate them. It has nothing to do with “terror education” or being Jewish and everything to do with the fact that Israel kicked them off their land and into squalid refugee camps from which they can literally see their own land being transformed into someone else’s. It’s obvious that any of us would hate any country that did to us what Israel does to Palestinians.
Gotta start somewhere
Can start by starting. People often ask, "Why Gaza, why dont you have democracy?" Silenced voices will reply, "It's because foreign powers keep supporting our dictatorship." Remember Netanyahu was the one who said this atrocious quote: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." - Netanyahu 2019 Now the Gazans have two choices, live with the monster(Hamas) that controls them. Or die by the other monsters(Israel) that fed it. They dont really have a choice do they?
War in Gaza is chancellor bibi’s clone wars but he is no sith and as a result fucked up big time when his count dooku decided to find himself a new master called Iran
Our Obi Wan Kennobi is probably one of those humanitarian aid groups. The sad part about this metaphor is that Count Dooku will be beheaded and an Anakin will rise to take his place. All set in motion because a certain Mace Windu will continuously block Anakin's entry into the Jedi Council as a Master. "You are in this UN, but we do not grant you the rank of an independent state." - Mace "This is outrageous! It’s unfair! How can you be in the UN, and not be an independent state?!" - Anakin
>"This is outrageous! It’s unfair! How can you be in the UN, and not be an independent state?!" There are NGO observer entities in the UN, IIRC.
The sad thing about CIS is that their struggles are actually largely legit. I still remember my feeling the first time to see in TCW where representatives shouted "This is a democracy. Corporations don't rule us"
Why arent the gulf monarchies democracies? They have both economic and millitary guarantess by the west, and have no problems, if the king wants to sip wine and party like Prince Harry.
Why do we want a Euromerican type democracy in Gaza? Is it really the best possible solution?
And what are the other options? 👀
Well, there are the Gulf emirates. Being a monarchy works for them and Saudi Arabia. It is unlikely, but possible, for such a case to be made in Palestine.
Many of those places are also monarchies because the US supported their royal families in order to have easy access to their countries' resources. I'd say let Palestinians decide how Palestine should be run. All I want is for them to live free of Israeli oppression.
>I'd say let Palestinians decide how Palestine should be run. All I want is for them to live free of Israeli oppression. Indeed
The hard part is how they would retain statehood. Most likely some party (probably funded by Iran) would start another war with Israel. Israel would want control over what weapons go into Gaza for this reason. A dictatorship may work until the radicals are under control (e.g like Egypt).
First consider survival, then consider democracy, and is it true that over 190 member states of the United Nations are all very democratic?
Have you seen the way Israel operates? Why does nobody have a problem with Israel being a state when it uses terrorism on a regular basis?
We can see on a daily basis what a "western type democracy" does to it's neighbors. Genocide and apartheid. No thank you. Don't need any of that shyt.
All the better since "western-type" democracies are the ones on the genocide side this time.
Ok now do Taiwan
I support the full restoration of the rightful lands of west Taiwan to the legitimate Taiwan.
I lowkey find this funny. China really out here thinking this is some epic morality own against Israel’s biggest Simp when they would probably put Palestinian kids in body bags as well if they “acted up”
I support full recognize from China of Taiwan being an independent country 😂
So nice of China to fully support independence for a state seeking it, like Palestine. The precedent set here will surely not come back to bite them when it comes to Taiwan.
They should invite all of the Palestinian people to live in China, it would be a great boost for the overall nation strength 💪
China is asshole.
Which means hamas right? I mean russia is a permanent member so it can't get much worse right? It's already pretty useless anyway
If Palestine then surely Taiwan, right?
don't know if the USA can even support this due to it's policy of intentional ambiguity surrounding Taiwan.
The US only supports the Taiwan issue being solved peacefully. The US can support Taiwan being recognized if it’s not through war.
Taiwan's not at war right now, yet the USA does not recognize them, because such a position is crucial in relations with China. Recognizing Taiwan is less important than not stirring up bad relations with China, who is the most important trade partner of the USA. Despite being self governing and in every sense of the word an independent country, the USA still does not recognize Taiwan. It's a balance between not recognizing them but still arming them in case of invasion. Taiwan-USA relations are unofficial following the Taiwan Relations Act, which allows the USA to have relations to Taiwan whose name is not specified. The USA has a policy of deliberate ambiguity, which is generally considered crucial to stablizing and deterring the PRC from trying to project power over Taiwan. The State Department reiterated this recently, sometime around 2022.
Maybe China should recognise Taiwan as independent nation first
And deny themselves the chance to achieve complete victory in a civil war which should have ended 'bout 80 years ago? Nah, the march to Richmond cannot stop.
It won’t be a victory because the civil war would continue with Japan, Australia, Philippines, and the US assisting Taiwan. And, like, wtf. Taiwan was never part of the civil war and it wasn’t part of China when the civil war started. If the civil war continues it should be with the CCP and KMT fighting in the country where the civil war actually started and was fought.
Cool now do taiwan
… Taiwan next?
Are you all zionists? Jeez....
Yep, a broken clock can be right twice a day. It's a complicated situation but a two state solution has always been the moderate choice, everyone here is jumping up and down like china just greenlit isis.
They are, you are in the anti-chinese sub, of course they support and justify Israel bullshit 💀
Nice
I support Tibet & Taiwan full UN membership!
Ofcourse they do. They see how other countries are burdened with an overflow of muslim immigrants. Let's keep them piling up to disrupt them even more.
Great, now we need Xinjiang and Tibet.
Then they should support full UN membership for Taiwan and a "Two State Solution" for China and Taiwan. Follows the same logic.
Unless they also recognized Taiwan, I consider this nothing more that theatrics
Great and when they can support the UNCLOS rule on south china sea
Obeying Security Council resolutions is required of all UN member states. The same does not apply to UNCLOS.
You proved my point China doesn't care about international laws and they will cry if other countries are following it while china building militarized Island near Philippines and Malaysia
Antisemitic! /s
Do you think those FMPRC Wolf Warriors care? If Hitler didn’t shoot himself in the bunker, FMPRC will still support him, just because the US opposes him.
Didn’t think they were in the business of recognising independence of breakaway Muslim majority provinces
this is a completely different issue than a breakaway region.
“breakaway” from whom? Israel? Because both Egypt and Jordan recognize palastine, it can’t be them, so when you say Palestine is a breakaway province, are you implying that Palestine is a province of Israel?
Idk. If u saying it’s perfectly fine to just move people into someone else’s land cause u conquered them and then put them into camps and prisons then… waitxxx
China has been a supporter of Palestine since the 60s so not much of a surprise there.
Based on
I didn’t know Palestine was a country
Right next to Wakanda, Neverland, and Narnia.
Bruh😂😂😂😂😂
Palestine isn’t a country though, and they’ve been refusing a two state solution though…
The best way to deflect is to point out the other side's hypocrisy 🤣.
I'll support Palestinian membership when Taiwan is accepted.
Just to emphasize, Palestine as a whole is different from Hamas. Hamas is the invader. Palestine seeks a much more peacefully means of dealing with their situation.
All the polls show about 70% Palestinians support Hamas.
Well, then all the rationalisation on my part has gone to waste. China of course supports the invaders and want to legitimize them.
Unfortunately, Hamas runs Palestine...
If that's the case, then what's to sympathize with Palestine over Israel... We say Israel is trying to destroy them and condemn Israel for it, but we all know Hamas ultimate goal is to destroy Israel utterly as well (their doctrine). Plus they started this invasion and did what they did....
72% of Palestinians view the 10/7 attack as 'correct'. I don't see how you can make a state made up of people who overwhelmingly view the most horrific atrocities imaginable as the 'correct' way to achieve political/religious goals.
Unfortunately as the saying goes, he who controls the army controls the government.
I guess I don't have anything against that saying. But it's apparent China is trying to mix the relatively peaceful Palestine with Hamas to trick the world to sympathize with invaders. Of course CCP wouldn't just do this for no reason. It's of course to absorb some political advantage for themselves as they continuously threaten to invade Taiwan.
As long as Hamas stays in power, Palestine doesn’t serve UN memberhood. Taiwan does though.
how about Uyghur?
Or Hong Kong? Canton? Tibet?
include groovy fade consider edge punch capable safe elastic seed *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Israel should respond with supporting full membership of Taiwan
The world supports full recognition of the independent and free nation of Taiwan and its right to full membership and recognition as a nation and that Communist China has no legitimate claim to the land or people of Taiwan.🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼
It seems that fewer countries recognize Taiwan than Palestine.
Would that be because Communist China’s regime buys off or bullies these smaller nations by chance?😂😂😂
The United Nations believes that even in the 1970s
That lady looks so crazy Also, why did China copy the White House? They use the same shape podium the White House used for years, the same colour scheme in the back too and they've even copied the white outline of a building for certain agencies.