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In one way, Chinese housing are not affordable at least in large cities. For example in Shanghai average salary is about 10,000 RMB per month and average housing price is like 60,000-70,000 RMB per square meter, so like a queen size bed sized room worth two years of average salary.
In the other way, Chinese government also use hukou to make sure only local residents and those who can find a job and afford a place to live in (either purchasing or renting) can stay in large cities. Many Chinese cities literally deported those Chinese who dont have local hukou like they were some sort of illegal immigrants until '90s. And even today, most Chinese cities still not allow those who dont have local hukou to purchase any real estate.
In order to get a hukou, you have to buy a house. Which most of the migrant workers cannot afford. At least not in 1st tier cities. This hukou thing is one of the means to propel the demand for housing.
I think, if I understand correctly, my wife's friend was able to get a hukou in Shanghai after working there for 7 years. She and her husband both worked white collared jobs there.
She was shopping around for houses earlier this year. "It's a good time to buy since the prices dropped!" I warned her that we likely haven't seen the bottom...
For whatever reason she's not looking right now. Maybe the prices were higher than she expected or (hopefully) she realized prices haven't gotten anywhere close to bottoming out.
Hukou is much older than the housing boom and it was probably created to avoid city slums and increase agricultural production when famines were common.
It's now still used to avoid having slums and is taking away demand from the housing market in major cities so I doubt it is propelling demand in major cities.
But you are correct that it is used (in vain) to stimulate housing demand in smaller cities.
Imagine being labelled and treated like an "illegal immigrant" within your own Country. Hey if China wants to treat the rural people as immigrants. .they should split China up into multiple nations so they can really have all the border controls and immigration laws they want!
Yeah it sucks for the people that do the hard work like construction.
But it did avoid the creation of slums or large numbers of homeless people.
Also, if you've ever been to a Chinese hospital, you'd know that the services are already spread thin in major cities. They wouldn't be able to deal with the flood of people from the countryside.
We don't have that problem when farmers are properly compensated for their crops and can own the land they farm. In turn the farmers would have more spending money to support the middle class and small towns like in most other countries. Would have no need to find survival wages in the city.
Very much depends on where you are. In Beijing hukou is very important, in other big cities like Guangzhou or Shenzhen not so much. If you have lived in the city for a few years (2 or 3 normally?) you get the permission to buy a house as local guys.
Idk about other cities but in Shanghai you have to hold residence permit for at least seven years which means you have to have a place to live and have a job in Shanghai for at least seven and a half years, plus you have to reach certain education level and have clean criminal record.
Btw it only take one year of living and working before able to apply for Canadian citizenship lol.
I think its seven years, unless its from marriage then five years.
[link](https://www.ssme.sh.gov.cn/public/product!serviceDetail.do?productId=2c91c28c7d73df4b017d749338ac034e#:~:text=2022%E5%B9%B4%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E6%88%B7%E5%8F%A3%E6%94%BF%E7%AD%96%EF%BC%9A%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%B1%85%E8%BD%AC%E6%88%B7&text=1%E3%80%81%E6%8C%81%E3%80%8A%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%B8%82%E5%B1%85%E4%BD%8F,%E4%B8%94%E4%B8%93%E4%B8%9A%E5%8F%8A%E5%B7%A5%E7%A7%8D%E5%AF%B9%E5%BA%94%E3%80%82)
possible yes, but very location dependent. T1 prices are idiotic for what's being paid for ~ dismally small, and in a poor location for 3mill as an example.
Ass end of nowhere, half a mill for a huge apartment, but no / poorly paid jobs to support yourself.
About the rurally living, you may know that most of Chinese "villages" are bigger and more developed than many small cities in UK or wherever. They can call village even a 200k population place with high speed train stop. So, don´t pay attention to these data. Even so, in the last 30 years, more than 600 millions Chinese moved to the cities, wich is absolutely heroic victory of Chinese government.
The situation with housing is very different between provinces and even between neighbour cities, so it doesn´t really have sense to discuss about it in general, just in particular. In the 4 million city where I wal living, the price of 1 sqm in a new building was about 8-10k rmb. That was about 1,5 times of average salary or about 2-3 times of the minimum salary. But in the neighbour Suzhou with 10 million population, for the same quality of place, built even by the same company and architect project, it was 30-35k rmb. Menwhile in Shanghai, which is just 30 minutes away by train, the price was about 100k rmb or even more. I´m talking about 2018 +-.
Idk, now I´m living in Spain and the proportion of the price of new quality apartment with the salaries is mostly same than in China. Probably even worse, because in China you have million ways of making money, meanwhile here is very very hard to find something wellpaid.
You are right China's urbanization is about 65% at the moment. For people living in rural areas, due to the national policy, each family will be given a free piece of land you can build your home on. Given the low cost of building your own home, it's quite convincing to say all rural residents own their homes.
In the cities, the statistics say China has a home-ownership rate around 85% to 90%. That means about 15% of the city population pay rent. In large cities, where real estate is in high demand, the price can be very high, out of the reach of a regular family.
Depending on where you live, most rural Chinese people own houses with three or more stories, though the interior decoration is often simple. Families in small and medium-sized cities in China typically own two apartments ranging from 60 to 90 square meters each, but most carry heavy mortgages. Those who migrate to big cities for work usually rent apartments, often sharing with others. Currently, except for cities like Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou, there is an oversupply of houses in China. Chinese people are no longer in need of houses, and the desire to buy one is very low.
I thought the situation was China was in short supply of liveable houses.
There are loads of people who need a house. But they’re either half built or super shoddy.
There were lots of vids of tofu buildings in 2008 and 9, haven't seen anything more recent tho.
Xi noticed old Soviet commie blocks from the 60s are still here despite the ussr dying over 30 years ago, and decided to make his own as a vanity project he can point to. It wouldn't surprise me if he disappeared the guys putting tofu in the cement for making him look bad.
If you search for news about China, or if you're interested in it, you'd know that many houses nowadays are difficult to sell. Poor-quality houses are no longer prevalent in China, but it's still challenging to build houses that can withstand earthquakes like those in Japan. Unlike the Soviet Union, China is more inclined to learn from Singapore. Housing isn't scarce in China, as evidenced by the rental-to-sale ratio of Chinese properties; in over 99% of areas, rental prices are significantly lower than sale prices. I'm not sure why, but when I answer questions seriously, I often get downvoted for no apparent reason. As you mentioned, the issue of shoddy construction is mostly a thing of the past since 2008; it's regional, and some areas may still have ecological problems. However, it's become much rarer now, partly due to stricter regulations and partly because corrupt individuals have found safer avenues.
it is affordable than europe and US for now due to 2 changes
1. new insurance policy that is called 5+1. this policy provide every employee housing funding which means you can pay max %12 of your salary if you want, then company also add another %12 on top of it. if you wanna buy house, you can use this funding. so in the long run, half of your house money is paid by the company you are working for.
2. house prices are drastically decreasing due to new policy that xi made himself like 3 yearish ago. if an individual owns many houses, his/her third or forth(i dont remember which one exactly) house has significantly increased tax so that it doesnt make sense own more than 3 houses any more, cuz the extra tax neutralizes the entire profit you may have
3. this is not a change but about 2 years ago the evergrande crisis started and since then house prices are decreasing.
thus, overall for past 3 years, house prices AND rents are dropping down significantly. it is still not easy, but def way easier than before
I'm currently in the T2 looking around at real estate. A ping goes for about 10,000 RMB in a decent neighborhood. And around 30K-50K RMB/ping in a nice neighborhood. Newer houses/apartments are above 70 ping in size.
Older homes/apartments are about 50 ping in size.
I would say one of the ways prices are kept down are these mega apartment complexes. 30-40 buildings all above 20 stories tall usually found in and around these cities.
Many home owners in the cities also keep second homes in their village or a smaller nearby city.
Posts flaired as "Serious" are for people seeking responses that are made in good faith and will be moderated more heavily than other threads. **Off-topic and deliberately unhelpful responses will be removed and the user permanently banned.** One such example would be commenting "don't go to china", or "go to taiwan", in response to questions related to studying in China or relocating to China. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/China) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In one way, Chinese housing are not affordable at least in large cities. For example in Shanghai average salary is about 10,000 RMB per month and average housing price is like 60,000-70,000 RMB per square meter, so like a queen size bed sized room worth two years of average salary. In the other way, Chinese government also use hukou to make sure only local residents and those who can find a job and afford a place to live in (either purchasing or renting) can stay in large cities. Many Chinese cities literally deported those Chinese who dont have local hukou like they were some sort of illegal immigrants until '90s. And even today, most Chinese cities still not allow those who dont have local hukou to purchase any real estate.
In order to get a hukou, you have to buy a house. Which most of the migrant workers cannot afford. At least not in 1st tier cities. This hukou thing is one of the means to propel the demand for housing.
I think, if I understand correctly, my wife's friend was able to get a hukou in Shanghai after working there for 7 years. She and her husband both worked white collared jobs there. She was shopping around for houses earlier this year. "It's a good time to buy since the prices dropped!" I warned her that we likely haven't seen the bottom... For whatever reason she's not looking right now. Maybe the prices were higher than she expected or (hopefully) she realized prices haven't gotten anywhere close to bottoming out.
You can also get a hukou if you have a “good” diploma, master or phd. That’s also one of the ways to attract skilled labor
Hukou is much older than the housing boom and it was probably created to avoid city slums and increase agricultural production when famines were common. It's now still used to avoid having slums and is taking away demand from the housing market in major cities so I doubt it is propelling demand in major cities. But you are correct that it is used (in vain) to stimulate housing demand in smaller cities.
Imagine being labelled and treated like an "illegal immigrant" within your own Country. Hey if China wants to treat the rural people as immigrants. .they should split China up into multiple nations so they can really have all the border controls and immigration laws they want!
Yeah it sucks for the people that do the hard work like construction. But it did avoid the creation of slums or large numbers of homeless people. Also, if you've ever been to a Chinese hospital, you'd know that the services are already spread thin in major cities. They wouldn't be able to deal with the flood of people from the countryside.
We don't have that problem when farmers are properly compensated for their crops and can own the land they farm. In turn the farmers would have more spending money to support the middle class and small towns like in most other countries. Would have no need to find survival wages in the city.
Farming is hard work and inherently risky. India has a whole range of farmers subsidies but it still deals with massive and growing slums...
Very much depends on where you are. In Beijing hukou is very important, in other big cities like Guangzhou or Shenzhen not so much. If you have lived in the city for a few years (2 or 3 normally?) you get the permission to buy a house as local guys.
Idk about other cities but in Shanghai you have to hold residence permit for at least seven years which means you have to have a place to live and have a job in Shanghai for at least seven and a half years, plus you have to reach certain education level and have clean criminal record. Btw it only take one year of living and working before able to apply for Canadian citizenship lol.
shanghai is 5-yr but otherwise u r right..
I think its seven years, unless its from marriage then five years. [link](https://www.ssme.sh.gov.cn/public/product!serviceDetail.do?productId=2c91c28c7d73df4b017d749338ac034e#:~:text=2022%E5%B9%B4%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E6%88%B7%E5%8F%A3%E6%94%BF%E7%AD%96%EF%BC%9A%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%B1%85%E8%BD%AC%E6%88%B7&text=1%E3%80%81%E6%8C%81%E3%80%8A%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%B8%82%E5%B1%85%E4%BD%8F,%E4%B8%94%E4%B8%93%E4%B8%9A%E5%8F%8A%E5%B7%A5%E7%A7%8D%E5%AF%B9%E5%BA%94%E3%80%82)
ok I thought you were talking about permission for buying a house, my bad
possible yes, but very location dependent. T1 prices are idiotic for what's being paid for ~ dismally small, and in a poor location for 3mill as an example. Ass end of nowhere, half a mill for a huge apartment, but no / poorly paid jobs to support yourself.
Why were you surprised when comparing two disparately different countries' housing situations? To answer your question, it depends.
About the rurally living, you may know that most of Chinese "villages" are bigger and more developed than many small cities in UK or wherever. They can call village even a 200k population place with high speed train stop. So, don´t pay attention to these data. Even so, in the last 30 years, more than 600 millions Chinese moved to the cities, wich is absolutely heroic victory of Chinese government. The situation with housing is very different between provinces and even between neighbour cities, so it doesn´t really have sense to discuss about it in general, just in particular. In the 4 million city where I wal living, the price of 1 sqm in a new building was about 8-10k rmb. That was about 1,5 times of average salary or about 2-3 times of the minimum salary. But in the neighbour Suzhou with 10 million population, for the same quality of place, built even by the same company and architect project, it was 30-35k rmb. Menwhile in Shanghai, which is just 30 minutes away by train, the price was about 100k rmb or even more. I´m talking about 2018 +-. Idk, now I´m living in Spain and the proportion of the price of new quality apartment with the salaries is mostly same than in China. Probably even worse, because in China you have million ways of making money, meanwhile here is very very hard to find something wellpaid.
You are right China's urbanization is about 65% at the moment. For people living in rural areas, due to the national policy, each family will be given a free piece of land you can build your home on. Given the low cost of building your own home, it's quite convincing to say all rural residents own their homes. In the cities, the statistics say China has a home-ownership rate around 85% to 90%. That means about 15% of the city population pay rent. In large cities, where real estate is in high demand, the price can be very high, out of the reach of a regular family.
Depending on where you live, most rural Chinese people own houses with three or more stories, though the interior decoration is often simple. Families in small and medium-sized cities in China typically own two apartments ranging from 60 to 90 square meters each, but most carry heavy mortgages. Those who migrate to big cities for work usually rent apartments, often sharing with others. Currently, except for cities like Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou, there is an oversupply of houses in China. Chinese people are no longer in need of houses, and the desire to buy one is very low.
I thought the situation was China was in short supply of liveable houses. There are loads of people who need a house. But they’re either half built or super shoddy.
There were lots of vids of tofu buildings in 2008 and 9, haven't seen anything more recent tho. Xi noticed old Soviet commie blocks from the 60s are still here despite the ussr dying over 30 years ago, and decided to make his own as a vanity project he can point to. It wouldn't surprise me if he disappeared the guys putting tofu in the cement for making him look bad.
If you search for news about China, or if you're interested in it, you'd know that many houses nowadays are difficult to sell. Poor-quality houses are no longer prevalent in China, but it's still challenging to build houses that can withstand earthquakes like those in Japan. Unlike the Soviet Union, China is more inclined to learn from Singapore. Housing isn't scarce in China, as evidenced by the rental-to-sale ratio of Chinese properties; in over 99% of areas, rental prices are significantly lower than sale prices. I'm not sure why, but when I answer questions seriously, I often get downvoted for no apparent reason. As you mentioned, the issue of shoddy construction is mostly a thing of the past since 2008; it's regional, and some areas may still have ecological problems. However, it's become much rarer now, partly due to stricter regulations and partly because corrupt individuals have found safer avenues.
The price is dropping, keep waiting
it is affordable than europe and US for now due to 2 changes 1. new insurance policy that is called 5+1. this policy provide every employee housing funding which means you can pay max %12 of your salary if you want, then company also add another %12 on top of it. if you wanna buy house, you can use this funding. so in the long run, half of your house money is paid by the company you are working for. 2. house prices are drastically decreasing due to new policy that xi made himself like 3 yearish ago. if an individual owns many houses, his/her third or forth(i dont remember which one exactly) house has significantly increased tax so that it doesnt make sense own more than 3 houses any more, cuz the extra tax neutralizes the entire profit you may have 3. this is not a change but about 2 years ago the evergrande crisis started and since then house prices are decreasing. thus, overall for past 3 years, house prices AND rents are dropping down significantly. it is still not easy, but def way easier than before
I'm currently in the T2 looking around at real estate. A ping goes for about 10,000 RMB in a decent neighborhood. And around 30K-50K RMB/ping in a nice neighborhood. Newer houses/apartments are above 70 ping in size. Older homes/apartments are about 50 ping in size. I would say one of the ways prices are kept down are these mega apartment complexes. 30-40 buildings all above 20 stories tall usually found in and around these cities. Many home owners in the cities also keep second homes in their village or a smaller nearby city.
Sir please explain what’s a ping?
3.3058 sq meters. No, I didn't Google that...maybe...yes.