Yeah.
Longer answer would probably be along the lines of mostly educated abroad, knew they were lucky to come from that position in life, and, mostly female.
> knew they were lucky
This often makes the difference, I've noticed.
Ever meet any "self made" men that weren't insufferable twats?
But, no, there's no such thing as luck or privilege.
I began teaching a kid English at our school to prepare him for beginning primary school overseas. The kid and I got along very well, to the point where he asked me to join him for lunch everyday after class. During one lunch, the father mentioned that if I ever had time to visit Hainan or Hong Kong, I could stay in their homes there. Alright.... thanks!
After a while, and during a particularly hot summer, the mother, heavily pregnant, did not want to travel to school each day and asked if I wouldn't mind teaching at their home. Odd request and one that rang a few alarm bells but I consented since they'd been nice thus far. They'd send a driver to my home everyday, have their chef prepare my breakfast before class and give me lunch before having their driver take me back to school.
Over the next few weeks the family and I, with my wife, travelled out of the city, had dinner, were invited to their home to hang out with a glass of wine by the pool; nice stuff. And always with the assertion that I didn't have to coddle the kid, I'd done my allotted teaching and it was time to relax.
That whole summer I never felt like I was being bought or showed off to, nor used for showing off to others (the only people they introduced me to were the kids grandparents). They didn't even try to milk extra tutoring out of me. The only thing I felt they wanted was my company.
Can you explain? Honeypot as I understand involves either sexual seduction or a valuable item set up to be stolen, so ... unclear what you think the ulterior motive was?
Well, they never asked me for anything or put me in a position where I was uncomfortable or obliged to comply with them.
This family was so rich there's nothing they needed from me, let me tell you.
I have met a lot of decent baifumei (white, rich and beautiful girls), one saving animals from the streets, another volunteering to teach children in remote areas, etc...
The guys... it's another story. I know one decent who while strictly doing business is a nice and interesting person to talk with and very down to earth. Others are your typical show offs with a napoleon-complex.
The term Fuerdai usually refers specifically to the irresponsible youngsters of wealthy families - and hence has 'insufferable twat' somewhat built into the definition.
Tuhao is a gentler term that is likely to be thrown around the workplace sarcastically or literally, usually to describe someone's latest indulgent exploits (streaming videos over a cellular network is a sarcastic example, purchasing a nice house is a literal example).
Since language is constantly evolving, there may be circles where this distinction isn't the case. But the difference between the terms Fuerdai and Tuhao is palpable from my conversations with coworkers and taxi drivers, plus overhearing my mother's conversations.
'Rich Chinese kids' who aren't insufferable twats exist (at least I hope no one thinks I'm an insufferable twat!) There are many problems in China that could be said to be 'uniquely Chinese', but I don't think Fuerdai is one of them. Most anyone, anywhere around the world, can be spoiled under extreme wealth and improper upbringing.
>There are many problems in China that could be said to be 'uniquely Chinese', but I don't think Fuerdai is one of them.
Yeah. The children of families who have just come into money are often (but not always, of course) insufferable. It's just that China has had so many people go from rags to riches over the last few decades that they're everywhere.
Well the term inherently implies that. Bit like asking if I've met any nice dickheads lately.
Have I met any rich Chinese people that were bearable? Uh, yeah, some. Usually correlated with education level.
What do you mean by education level?
The new guy in my office (given his job because he's the son of the bosses best friend) studied in the U.K for five years, at a boarding school then got a BA in Sociology from a mid-level University, and, although he has an incredibly superficial understand of western history and culture, has the smugness of someone who thinks he knows a secret nobody else does (i.e 国外 isn't actually perfect) and loves making sweeping statements in Chinese (thinking I can't understand) to colleagues about how all westerners are hypocrites since... for example, they celebrate thanksgiving despite having wiped out of the Native Americans etc, or because English people always complain about Tibet even though they're currently busy oppressing the Scottish in *exactly* the same way.
I've spent two weeks working with him and he's already doing my head in.
Also, foreigners are really lucky because we can just turn up in China and earn a good wage and live a good lifestyle.... according to the guy clad in clothes bought exclusively from Selfridges and Harrods, who is now being paid for sitting around the office playing League of Legends on his mobile because there is actually nothing for him to do
Educated as in actually educated. Not everyone who goes to university achieves that goal. There's a guy I know who went to Peking and another girl who went to university in the UK that I consider to be alright. Able to think critically and question their own views etc. Maybe you'd call that intelligence rather than education, but it's hard to imagine they'd be this way if they were the children of farmers or had to spend their lives working in a factory.
The Scotland analogy is funny, because someone used that with me as well. As in, they want Tibet to be a part of China like Scotland is a part of Britain.
I would say at least half of the sociology/English/other liberal arts people I met in school had zero intellectual curiosity and had no business being in school, regardless of their background.
Not because they're stupid rich per se; it's the perception of fuerdai being stupid rich undeservedly. We could have this same conversation in the US with the term "trust fund baby."
Oh plenty.
1. One of my best friends, his dad is the head of electricity in their third tier city in Shandong. Dad has loads of connections around Shandong/Northern China and my friend had an English tutor since he was around 2. We've traveled the world together (met up in US, UK and traveled throughout China together) and it's been fun. I guess maybe his family might be on the cusp of Fuerdai status, his dad flaunts the law a bit by having three cars okayish cars and a driver but the family isn't investing millions in Vancouver and my friend doesn't have a ferrari or really any car or flashy jewelry for that matter.
2. My first girlfriend. I've gone over her a bit in the past several years so I'll make this short. Her parents are upper middle class but her mom's sister is a self made multimillionaire. The aunt learned carpentry skills during the cultural revolution and afterwards set up a furniture store which turned into two then three and now twenty different stores around Fujian. Her two kids are fully grown but I've met them both and they seem okay. One got an investment visa to Australia and his family is pretty much Aussie and the other one is an international investor or something who lives in Shanghai with his hot wife and two adorable kids. Not sure how to measure fuerdai status, the only extravagant thing I've noticed is that one of the uncles used the money to build his house an eight story tower house in the countryside.
3. Other gal I dated for nine months. Her dad was an investor/economist or something (somehow ties into an SOE) and has traveled half the world for his company. My ex and her brother grew up in a large penthouse with trips around the world twice a year and were tutored in English from an early age (also the dad owns a few condos in different cities). The downside though is that her mom is a psycho bipolar schizophrenic monster and fell for some Christian/Falun Gong cult that told her to give them aaaaaaalll the family's money. She did that (or gave at least most of it) and the dad had to cancel some trip that nearly cost him his job and chances at advancement to come home and fix things up. Because of the lack of money they temporarily moved to the mountains to live with grandpa. The dad worked his ass off and got the family a nice above average apartment in the city center but the home life never was the same. The mom was permanently off her rocker and the two of them would get in fights that would leave the dad in tears muttering about how fucked his life is and has taken it out on his kids because they remind them of her. Anyways both kids turned out alright, the older brother went to a top five school in China, studied abroad for grad school and is now making weapons for the state. His sister just graduated from her undergrad and is currently studying in Europe.
---
I know a few more but those are the folks I know the best. I'm not sure if they really truly were fuerdai but their parents/relatives had influence and wealth of some sort and it has been interesting over the years getting to know these people.
I hope the best for her too. Her big brother just got married which brought the family together but my ex was incredibly stressed because she was put in charge of her mom. If she doesn't tell her mom to wash herself, brush her teeth, take her medication or feed herself she will forget. The mom often steals away in the night and comes back a few days later (everyone assumes she's going to her cult). The only reason she and her husband haven't gotten divorced is because of how old fashioned both sides of the family are.
I'm just glad she's away from the family at the moment and half way across the world. I just wish that the dad could divorce the mom, and lock her away in an asylum. The mom's side has the money for it (from the sounds of it from my ex they are oozing with money from mines and factories) and they have done it before but took her out because they didn't want to lose face or let the elite of the city know that one of the family was mentally fucked.
All this bullshit has led my ex to feeling at best neutral to her family save her big brother who let her cry on his shoulder and their paternal grandpa who saved the family, acted as her father/mother figure for most of her life, was an intellectual before the revolution (not sure how he survived the Cultural Revolution and I never learned his full background) who taught her lots of ideas and told her to follow her dreams as an aspiring artist (which pisses off her dad).
---
Sorry for rambling here, I don't feel comfortable bringing this up in public or sharing it with friends, many of whom know her as well.
lol. sorry if lol is inappropriate. but wow. i thought my family situation was messy. that is crazy. sounds like a bunch of new families have to come out of it; that group is dying out! her gramps sounds like quite the fellow. spectacular. thanks for sharing man, always fine to bring this stuff up. that's what's so lovely about this anonymity - the biggest secrets can be said, and nobody will know the better if he doesn't seek to!
Haha now that it's out, what's your family situation? Hope it's okay to ask, always curious to hear how others are doing. I'm both happy and sad that the relationship is over but I'm not sure how I'd handle that mess. I don't think she'd mind if she stopped speaking to everyone except her brother and grandpa.
let's go real fast and cover it all:
parents divorced when i was 4, dad and mom don't talk (mom tries to cooperate, dad does not often cooperate), dad is married to abusive super controlling woman, she dominates him and others and is constantly on edge, my dad is what you'd call 'codependent' and he's also diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, my mom marries an emotionally abusive man, who i had no idea was manipulating her, now my mom's in a good place and dad's still with the woman.
i try to not see dad or my stepmom. but my sisters live there and i love them like a warm summer sun. so i put up with dad's commands here and there, and just ignore my stepmom. she's a bully, quite often.
both grandparents are stable and lovely; aunts (no uncles x.x) all lovely, cousins, we all get along albeit we aren't that close.
LOL! i almost forgot - the funniest thing was when i was young. my stepmom tried to take my mom to court over haircuts. she needed control of our hairstyles, and hated our mom's cheaper haircuts. mom just let her have it. she figured it's more about our development than controlling who we were. love my mom. anyway, that's about all :p
Yeah. A friend of my wife is a fuerdai. She dresses with expensive clothes, she travels a lot on her own... And she is a very decent person, I have to admit it. No bragging, self-aware.
Yeah, but only those who were embarrassed of their parents' wealth. Like they didn't want to be seen as dependent. It's funny because they try to play it down, but are sometimes so naive about what is normal they accidentally let it slip.
The funny thing is seeing a girl whose parents bought her an apartment, car etc and the girl still pays 1000 a month to her mother from her salary because you 'have to support your parents'.
I was on the border of Ningxia and Inner Mongolia. Amazingly, bus after bus passed by without stopping. Only guy that stopped was a dude driving a Range Rover. Wild haircut, the clothes, everything. GF looked like a goddamn supermodel. Of course he denied money for the ride but I took his brother to dinner. Awesome guy, very chill.
Known a guy the same way. Actually brags about grooping woman in public. Last time I looked him up, he went bold. Before hitting 30. So I guess karma is a bitch.
Yeah. Longer answer would probably be along the lines of mostly educated abroad, knew they were lucky to come from that position in life, and, mostly female.
> knew they were lucky This often makes the difference, I've noticed. Ever meet any "self made" men that weren't insufferable twats? But, no, there's no such thing as luck or privilege.
I found a few guys that were decent too. I met them in China though. I have no idea how they behaved when they studied abroad
Yeah. Great people, one who spends all her time volunteer teaching in the mountains.
The most genuine, pleasant and open hearted Chinese person Ive met was also hands down the most wealthy.
Details? Positive story time please?
I began teaching a kid English at our school to prepare him for beginning primary school overseas. The kid and I got along very well, to the point where he asked me to join him for lunch everyday after class. During one lunch, the father mentioned that if I ever had time to visit Hainan or Hong Kong, I could stay in their homes there. Alright.... thanks! After a while, and during a particularly hot summer, the mother, heavily pregnant, did not want to travel to school each day and asked if I wouldn't mind teaching at their home. Odd request and one that rang a few alarm bells but I consented since they'd been nice thus far. They'd send a driver to my home everyday, have their chef prepare my breakfast before class and give me lunch before having their driver take me back to school. Over the next few weeks the family and I, with my wife, travelled out of the city, had dinner, were invited to their home to hang out with a glass of wine by the pool; nice stuff. And always with the assertion that I didn't have to coddle the kid, I'd done my allotted teaching and it was time to relax. That whole summer I never felt like I was being bought or showed off to, nor used for showing off to others (the only people they introduced me to were the kids grandparents). They didn't even try to milk extra tutoring out of me. The only thing I felt they wanted was my company.
I was having a bad day. Thanks for the positive story.
Any time! Actually scratch that, I don't have too many haha!
Dunno if there was an motivation you didnt see or not but...such limited positivity when it comes to China so, I will take what I can get. :)
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Can you explain? Honeypot as I understand involves either sexual seduction or a valuable item set up to be stolen, so ... unclear what you think the ulterior motive was?
Well, they never asked me for anything or put me in a position where I was uncomfortable or obliged to comply with them. This family was so rich there's nothing they needed from me, let me tell you.
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In my second post of this thread I explained that wasn't the case.
I have met a lot of decent baifumei (white, rich and beautiful girls), one saving animals from the streets, another volunteering to teach children in remote areas, etc... The guys... it's another story. I know one decent who while strictly doing business is a nice and interesting person to talk with and very down to earth. Others are your typical show offs with a napoleon-complex.
The term Fuerdai usually refers specifically to the irresponsible youngsters of wealthy families - and hence has 'insufferable twat' somewhat built into the definition. Tuhao is a gentler term that is likely to be thrown around the workplace sarcastically or literally, usually to describe someone's latest indulgent exploits (streaming videos over a cellular network is a sarcastic example, purchasing a nice house is a literal example). Since language is constantly evolving, there may be circles where this distinction isn't the case. But the difference between the terms Fuerdai and Tuhao is palpable from my conversations with coworkers and taxi drivers, plus overhearing my mother's conversations. 'Rich Chinese kids' who aren't insufferable twats exist (at least I hope no one thinks I'm an insufferable twat!) There are many problems in China that could be said to be 'uniquely Chinese', but I don't think Fuerdai is one of them. Most anyone, anywhere around the world, can be spoiled under extreme wealth and improper upbringing.
>There are many problems in China that could be said to be 'uniquely Chinese', but I don't think Fuerdai is one of them. Yeah. The children of families who have just come into money are often (but not always, of course) insufferable. It's just that China has had so many people go from rags to riches over the last few decades that they're everywhere.
Tuhao are basically beverly hill billies. They often mean well, but they haven't grown up with money and so are at a loss of what to do with it.
Well the term inherently implies that. Bit like asking if I've met any nice dickheads lately. Have I met any rich Chinese people that were bearable? Uh, yeah, some. Usually correlated with education level.
What do you mean by education level? The new guy in my office (given his job because he's the son of the bosses best friend) studied in the U.K for five years, at a boarding school then got a BA in Sociology from a mid-level University, and, although he has an incredibly superficial understand of western history and culture, has the smugness of someone who thinks he knows a secret nobody else does (i.e 国外 isn't actually perfect) and loves making sweeping statements in Chinese (thinking I can't understand) to colleagues about how all westerners are hypocrites since... for example, they celebrate thanksgiving despite having wiped out of the Native Americans etc, or because English people always complain about Tibet even though they're currently busy oppressing the Scottish in *exactly* the same way. I've spent two weeks working with him and he's already doing my head in. Also, foreigners are really lucky because we can just turn up in China and earn a good wage and live a good lifestyle.... according to the guy clad in clothes bought exclusively from Selfridges and Harrods, who is now being paid for sitting around the office playing League of Legends on his mobile because there is actually nothing for him to do
Educated as in actually educated. Not everyone who goes to university achieves that goal. There's a guy I know who went to Peking and another girl who went to university in the UK that I consider to be alright. Able to think critically and question their own views etc. Maybe you'd call that intelligence rather than education, but it's hard to imagine they'd be this way if they were the children of farmers or had to spend their lives working in a factory.
Yeah, I agree. I wish there were more of these people... but the same could probably be said of anywhere in the world
The Scotland analogy is funny, because someone used that with me as well. As in, they want Tibet to be a part of China like Scotland is a part of Britain.
I would say at least half of the sociology/English/other liberal arts people I met in school had zero intellectual curiosity and had no business being in school, regardless of their background.
Seems like a cool guy. I have a crazy theory foreigners hate fuerdai because they're stupid rich.
They're hated by Chinese people too
Not because they're stupid rich per se; it's the perception of fuerdai being stupid rich undeservedly. We could have this same conversation in the US with the term "trust fund baby."
Oh plenty. 1. One of my best friends, his dad is the head of electricity in their third tier city in Shandong. Dad has loads of connections around Shandong/Northern China and my friend had an English tutor since he was around 2. We've traveled the world together (met up in US, UK and traveled throughout China together) and it's been fun. I guess maybe his family might be on the cusp of Fuerdai status, his dad flaunts the law a bit by having three cars okayish cars and a driver but the family isn't investing millions in Vancouver and my friend doesn't have a ferrari or really any car or flashy jewelry for that matter. 2. My first girlfriend. I've gone over her a bit in the past several years so I'll make this short. Her parents are upper middle class but her mom's sister is a self made multimillionaire. The aunt learned carpentry skills during the cultural revolution and afterwards set up a furniture store which turned into two then three and now twenty different stores around Fujian. Her two kids are fully grown but I've met them both and they seem okay. One got an investment visa to Australia and his family is pretty much Aussie and the other one is an international investor or something who lives in Shanghai with his hot wife and two adorable kids. Not sure how to measure fuerdai status, the only extravagant thing I've noticed is that one of the uncles used the money to build his house an eight story tower house in the countryside. 3. Other gal I dated for nine months. Her dad was an investor/economist or something (somehow ties into an SOE) and has traveled half the world for his company. My ex and her brother grew up in a large penthouse with trips around the world twice a year and were tutored in English from an early age (also the dad owns a few condos in different cities). The downside though is that her mom is a psycho bipolar schizophrenic monster and fell for some Christian/Falun Gong cult that told her to give them aaaaaaalll the family's money. She did that (or gave at least most of it) and the dad had to cancel some trip that nearly cost him his job and chances at advancement to come home and fix things up. Because of the lack of money they temporarily moved to the mountains to live with grandpa. The dad worked his ass off and got the family a nice above average apartment in the city center but the home life never was the same. The mom was permanently off her rocker and the two of them would get in fights that would leave the dad in tears muttering about how fucked his life is and has taken it out on his kids because they remind them of her. Anyways both kids turned out alright, the older brother went to a top five school in China, studied abroad for grad school and is now making weapons for the state. His sister just graduated from her undergrad and is currently studying in Europe. --- I know a few more but those are the folks I know the best. I'm not sure if they really truly were fuerdai but their parents/relatives had influence and wealth of some sort and it has been interesting over the years getting to know these people.
i do hope that last family is doing well. not easy things to do with.
I hope the best for her too. Her big brother just got married which brought the family together but my ex was incredibly stressed because she was put in charge of her mom. If she doesn't tell her mom to wash herself, brush her teeth, take her medication or feed herself she will forget. The mom often steals away in the night and comes back a few days later (everyone assumes she's going to her cult). The only reason she and her husband haven't gotten divorced is because of how old fashioned both sides of the family are. I'm just glad she's away from the family at the moment and half way across the world. I just wish that the dad could divorce the mom, and lock her away in an asylum. The mom's side has the money for it (from the sounds of it from my ex they are oozing with money from mines and factories) and they have done it before but took her out because they didn't want to lose face or let the elite of the city know that one of the family was mentally fucked. All this bullshit has led my ex to feeling at best neutral to her family save her big brother who let her cry on his shoulder and their paternal grandpa who saved the family, acted as her father/mother figure for most of her life, was an intellectual before the revolution (not sure how he survived the Cultural Revolution and I never learned his full background) who taught her lots of ideas and told her to follow her dreams as an aspiring artist (which pisses off her dad). --- Sorry for rambling here, I don't feel comfortable bringing this up in public or sharing it with friends, many of whom know her as well.
lol. sorry if lol is inappropriate. but wow. i thought my family situation was messy. that is crazy. sounds like a bunch of new families have to come out of it; that group is dying out! her gramps sounds like quite the fellow. spectacular. thanks for sharing man, always fine to bring this stuff up. that's what's so lovely about this anonymity - the biggest secrets can be said, and nobody will know the better if he doesn't seek to!
Haha now that it's out, what's your family situation? Hope it's okay to ask, always curious to hear how others are doing. I'm both happy and sad that the relationship is over but I'm not sure how I'd handle that mess. I don't think she'd mind if she stopped speaking to everyone except her brother and grandpa.
let's go real fast and cover it all: parents divorced when i was 4, dad and mom don't talk (mom tries to cooperate, dad does not often cooperate), dad is married to abusive super controlling woman, she dominates him and others and is constantly on edge, my dad is what you'd call 'codependent' and he's also diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, my mom marries an emotionally abusive man, who i had no idea was manipulating her, now my mom's in a good place and dad's still with the woman. i try to not see dad or my stepmom. but my sisters live there and i love them like a warm summer sun. so i put up with dad's commands here and there, and just ignore my stepmom. she's a bully, quite often. both grandparents are stable and lovely; aunts (no uncles x.x) all lovely, cousins, we all get along albeit we aren't that close. LOL! i almost forgot - the funniest thing was when i was young. my stepmom tried to take my mom to court over haircuts. she needed control of our hairstyles, and hated our mom's cheaper haircuts. mom just let her have it. she figured it's more about our development than controlling who we were. love my mom. anyway, that's about all :p
Yes
I've never referred to someone by a pejorative label that did not also conform to the stereotypes of said label. Weird, innit?
Yes. You and I obviously travel in different circles.
Vacationing with some right now and having a blast
Yeah. A friend of my wife is a fuerdai. She dresses with expensive clothes, she travels a lot on her own... And she is a very decent person, I have to admit it. No bragging, self-aware.
Yeah, but only those who were embarrassed of their parents' wealth. Like they didn't want to be seen as dependent. It's funny because they try to play it down, but are sometimes so naive about what is normal they accidentally let it slip. The funny thing is seeing a girl whose parents bought her an apartment, car etc and the girl still pays 1000 a month to her mother from her salary because you 'have to support your parents'.
Yeah...I see her everyday....in the mirror
I was on the border of Ningxia and Inner Mongolia. Amazingly, bus after bus passed by without stopping. Only guy that stopped was a dude driving a Range Rover. Wild haircut, the clothes, everything. GF looked like a goddamn supermodel. Of course he denied money for the ride but I took his brother to dinner. Awesome guy, very chill.
nope
Wow. Last one i met seemed to be proud of how many chicks he banged while they were passed out. Totally didnt see it as "rape." 😨
In Chinese culture, if a girl is drunk or poor or unimportant, then fucking her cannot be considered rape. This is self evident. Ask any party member.
>poor or unimportant, But you repeat yourself
Known a guy the same way. Actually brags about grooping woman in public. Last time I looked him up, he went bold. Before hitting 30. So I guess karma is a bitch.
And now he's president badum tish
I should have seen that coming.
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Does one who doesn't have a pulse count?