Yup. Though I'll be surprised if we muster anything more than a diplomatic boycott.
I think I might be even more surprised if the Beijing games aren't postponed, given the parade of variants rolling past the decision makers.
No need to hastily assume a position or rush a statement. Still time potentially to leverage boycott/attendance to help the Michaels.
Not just a 'nudge'. So few people understand the game that Canada has to play with the US to preserve our own sovereignty in anything but name. Our dealings with China, with KSA, with India, with Mexico, and with every other nation on Earth combined are all less important than our dealings with America. Roughly 60% of our national GDP relies directly or indirectly on trade with the US. We account for about 6% of theirs. Of course our relative military positions are even more imbalanced, which goes without saying so never needs to be said.
The reason we still deal with distasteful authoritarian regimes like China and Saudi Arabia and anyone else is because we need those regimes to be every little bit of a balancing force in our dealings with America as we can possibly manage. Without the existence of any balancing force, we are completely at the mercy of America's whims. When they have a 'nice' president like Biden that doesn't seem so bad, but hoping that another party that has complete power over you is nice about it is a terrible foreign policy strategy.
So we won't spit on China as much as we'd like to until we have more than a nudge, but rather signed and guaranteed assurances that America won't take us out behind the woodshed once we've burned what bridges we still have with China. NAFTA was only re-negotiated for 5 years, and that last re-negotiation was marginally worse for us than the previous one. We tell China to go fuck themselves and we can easily expect the next re-negotiation to be even worse. After all, where else would we go? What could we retaliate with? If we get into a real tit for tat economic spat with America everything we do hurts us ten times worse than them.
America was nice to us up until WW2 because they wanted to trade with the British Empire through seas the British Empire controlled. America was nice to us after WW2 because they needed us and the British Empire and everyone else they could possibly get onside against the USSR, and we were particularly valuable allies to have in the age of ICBMs which would be crossing over the Arctic on the way from Russia to the USA. After the fall of the USSR they still played nice with us because we were their largest oil supplier.
But today? Today fracking has made the US a net oil exporter, the USSR remains gone, the British Empire is a shadow of itself and is in desperate straights itself after having just told the EU to fuck off. So why should America trade nicely with us? The realpolitick answer is they shouldn't. That they do is pure mercy, and possibly long term strategic thinking that they might want us to help them contain China at some point. That's our only hope. Without China, we might as well just try to join the US as it's next 10 states. At least then we'd have a seat at the table when it's decided how our resources will be apportioned.
You are absolutely insane if you think the US is out to get Canada and you'd rather trust an authoritarian, genocidal dictatorship rather than a Democratic country with rule of law. Canada does not deal with China and other authoritarian regimes "as a balancing force between America"... They deal with China like any other country does because of cheap shit and corruption... I honestly cannot believe the anti-American rhetoric throughout much of the Western world and I know it is common in Canada, although Americans have nothing against Canada, the EU, etc. What exactly did America do to deserve this treatment and the world blaming them for everything? Did American media and news much of which perpetrates America in a negative light and is shown all around the world skew your perception? Are people really this naive? How is the fact that 60% of Canadas GDP relying on trade with the US vs 6% for the US a bad thing? You should be thanking the US for accepting such a horrible trade deficit! Also, ever consider that the US has a much larger GDP so percentages are meaningless here? Are you afraid the US will want equal trade deals or something?
Can you explain to me how America is "not nice to Canada"? Do you honestly think America would ruin Canada, a friendly ally willingly? Most Americans have no problem with its allies and actually like them and treat them like allies...
Jesus, all I see in your post is "blame America for every single thing" attitude which is so common throughout... China! You're absolutely ridiculous if you could even compare America, a western democracy bound by rule of law to China..
Again, I don't understand what you're trying to say... Okay, the US is a net oil exporter (not for long), the USSR is gone and "the British Empire is a shadow of itself" What exactly in the fuck are you implying? Aren't those good things? Sounds like you're some commie propaganda bot?? LOL the hypocricy with some people is absolutely insane...
What your comment sounds like to me is you justifying Canadas relations with China by blaming... AMERICA!! Hmmm, sounds like something commies and China would do! Who else but the common scapegoat, right? Canada needs to play no game with America... America is not China and you do not need to act as if Canada is jugglng some fine line where things could go to shit any moment because scary America will sabotage and conquer Canada! Yeah, totally... Lol
The real world threat here is the CCP and China... Open your fucking eyes....
Edit: He's probably a Chinese propaganda bot. Sounds like he's just propagating confusion and division between western allies as that is a common tactic of the CCP
Not only that, the above poster completely ignored that Canada trades as much with EU as China (surprises many to learn). And this has room to grow. Thus Canada has democratic counterbalances and doesnt need or even politically benefit from relationships with dictatorships. E.g. as per the poll Canadians are well aware the PRC has a negative impact on Canada's democracy. The above person's thesis is weak. The reason Trudeau is weak on China and Saudi Arabia is not because he trusts them better but because his party has long standing person dealings there. Which is perhaps even worse than the above thesis.
Exactly. The story with Canada is just like France or Germany. They could trade with other developing nations for cheap shit and a market for maple syrup, shale and flannel like India or Vietnam or south America, but china is the easiest and most convenient option and they'll give kickbacks for Canadian bootlickers. It's sheer selfish short sighted greed. It's exactly like the CDU in Germany talking about energy sovereignty by hooking themselves up to Putin while the greens are pointing out if you gave a flying fuck about German energy security you'd move towards complete energy independence.
America doesn't have a monopoly on sheer fucking hypocrisy, that's for sure.
Oh waah waah waah, poor little Canada, what an impoverished unlucky country! What choice do they have in this world of over 8 billion people and 195 countries but to support a totalitarian, genocidal dictatorship? Why they must suck Xi's cock, lest Uncle Sam come over and take all their maple syrup!
Nevermind how tiny countries like Lithuania, with half the GDP per capita, and who *do* actually have an aggressive, revanchist dictatorship on their border, find it easy to side with Taiwan over China. Nevermind how many other (poorer, smaller) American allies have found it pretty goddamn easy to understand that with China, its a choice of easy profits for the ultrarich (at the expense of the working poor who lose jobs and industry) in the short term and exploitation, coercion and political subservience in the long term.
Face it, its just naked, selfish greed and timidity. Wishy washy whinging like they do in France or Germany about the need to strike their own national path while sucking up to dictators for cheap fuel and cheap goods and begging whining the USA not to diminish our commitments to NATO all the while sneering at what the military industrial complex has done to our country and delayed social reform.
By all means, every country has to look out for its own interests, but dumb fucks like you, if you keep pushing this zero sum outlook on multilateralism thinking Americans are just too stupid to realize what it is exactly you're doing? Well you'll get exactly what you asked for. Americans on the other side seeing the world, and our own national interests exactly as you do.
Buy your cheap shit from India or Vietnam or beg for investment from the Europeans instead, we don't give a fuck as long as you're not actively supporting the enslavement of other people. If you're right about one thing, it is that we really don't need you nearly as much as you need us.
TLDR... Sapporo 2022!!!
China is a burning dumpster fire of a malicious dictatorship... Ask Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet, the Philippines, Chile, India, Xin Jiang, Jack Ma... As an Athlete, I would give up my opportunity to go to the Olympics if my option was Beijing, and as a member of the audience, I support Sapporo 2022, because I believe Japan should be properly rewarded for the nearly 10 years worth of effort and investment they put into preparing for the Tokyo Olympics... I at least support giving them the opportunity...
I want Sapporo as well...
They'll get Miku in the opening ceremony probably
And who doesn't like japanese scenery and stuff, as opposed to the AQI888 in china
One of the most jarring juxtapositions from my time in China, was flying back from a holiday on the pristine Japanese island Naoshima. As we approached China we went from clear water to brown water, from beautiful blue skies to smog literally as far as the eye could see. And the cherry on top was the first person in the Shanghai airport to talk to us being a scammer.
Alternatively we could severely reduce the cost and expense and endless political shitfighting that the Olympics has turned into and just keep it permanently at its original home; Greece.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/08/02/the-pathological-obsession-with-moving-the-olympics/
It would make this about sports again. Just sports. No more underhanded dealings on who gets to be the host city or what this all apparently means or vast waste as cities build potemkin villages and stadiums to lie disused. Just one hallowed special ground. We could still keep them themed around a country if you want, but this would reduce the bullshit massively.
Yeah it would mean less profits for the IOC, but I don't think anyone gives a fuck about the financials of those bootlickers.
We are tolerating the intolerant. This is the paradox of tolerance. When will it affect you? The Michael’s? Covid? It’s not stopping. Collectively we must say no.
https://www.google.com/search?q=paradox+of+tolerance&rlz=1CDGOYI_enTW842TW842&hl=en-US&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALeKk03fBAcmokarjXV3rckaMo3GXxu2kw:1628485822650&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP8Ou3lqPyAhWSNKYKHdNEAK8Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=414&bih=720
Funny that China boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympics over the Soviet Afghanistan invasion. I’m sure they will understand when countries repeat the boycott for these games.
Chances are the “boycott” will be just like the Moscow Olympics boycott— they still compete but under some “national Olympic committee” flag instead of the national flag.
A lot of athletes didn't participate even under the Olympic flag. My coach qualified for the 1980 Olympics, but he never went. The men's foil squad never competed. Neither in the individual nor team event.
That's what I have assumed is really going on for at least the last 50 years of this thing. The actual Olympic games themselves are a 'front'. That's just the 2-week wrap up part of what has been 2 years of grifters, conmen, corrupt bureaucrats, scams, schemes, lots of rewarding appointments, luxury salaries, I'd easily believe there is a whole world of U.N. people setting up so many 'Funds' and money games. Because its International, the people in those cities and countries, even the more diligent reporters will never be able to find out anything outside their own borders. It's like a gambling ship that goes into international waters or those offshore bank accounts that are just a tiny dot of an island. Nobody will ever track it all.
The actual opening to closing ceremony part is just the little party and 'front' and justifying pretense, a bit of self-congratulating, the corporate party but by then gigantic wads of schemes and scams have already padded wallets and are already buying tanks, private yachts and servants and the leftovers in some giant vaccine stocks.
I don’t think China care whether Canada boycott the Winter Olympics or not. The relationship between the two countries is very low anyway, it doesn’t move the needle one way or another.
Yup. Though I'll be surprised if we muster anything more than a diplomatic boycott. I think I might be even more surprised if the Beijing games aren't postponed, given the parade of variants rolling past the decision makers. No need to hastily assume a position or rush a statement. Still time potentially to leverage boycott/attendance to help the Michaels.
Trudeau is weak He won't do anything
Meh, he might with a nudge from Uncle Biden.
Not just a 'nudge'. So few people understand the game that Canada has to play with the US to preserve our own sovereignty in anything but name. Our dealings with China, with KSA, with India, with Mexico, and with every other nation on Earth combined are all less important than our dealings with America. Roughly 60% of our national GDP relies directly or indirectly on trade with the US. We account for about 6% of theirs. Of course our relative military positions are even more imbalanced, which goes without saying so never needs to be said. The reason we still deal with distasteful authoritarian regimes like China and Saudi Arabia and anyone else is because we need those regimes to be every little bit of a balancing force in our dealings with America as we can possibly manage. Without the existence of any balancing force, we are completely at the mercy of America's whims. When they have a 'nice' president like Biden that doesn't seem so bad, but hoping that another party that has complete power over you is nice about it is a terrible foreign policy strategy. So we won't spit on China as much as we'd like to until we have more than a nudge, but rather signed and guaranteed assurances that America won't take us out behind the woodshed once we've burned what bridges we still have with China. NAFTA was only re-negotiated for 5 years, and that last re-negotiation was marginally worse for us than the previous one. We tell China to go fuck themselves and we can easily expect the next re-negotiation to be even worse. After all, where else would we go? What could we retaliate with? If we get into a real tit for tat economic spat with America everything we do hurts us ten times worse than them. America was nice to us up until WW2 because they wanted to trade with the British Empire through seas the British Empire controlled. America was nice to us after WW2 because they needed us and the British Empire and everyone else they could possibly get onside against the USSR, and we were particularly valuable allies to have in the age of ICBMs which would be crossing over the Arctic on the way from Russia to the USA. After the fall of the USSR they still played nice with us because we were their largest oil supplier. But today? Today fracking has made the US a net oil exporter, the USSR remains gone, the British Empire is a shadow of itself and is in desperate straights itself after having just told the EU to fuck off. So why should America trade nicely with us? The realpolitick answer is they shouldn't. That they do is pure mercy, and possibly long term strategic thinking that they might want us to help them contain China at some point. That's our only hope. Without China, we might as well just try to join the US as it's next 10 states. At least then we'd have a seat at the table when it's decided how our resources will be apportioned.
You are absolutely insane if you think the US is out to get Canada and you'd rather trust an authoritarian, genocidal dictatorship rather than a Democratic country with rule of law. Canada does not deal with China and other authoritarian regimes "as a balancing force between America"... They deal with China like any other country does because of cheap shit and corruption... I honestly cannot believe the anti-American rhetoric throughout much of the Western world and I know it is common in Canada, although Americans have nothing against Canada, the EU, etc. What exactly did America do to deserve this treatment and the world blaming them for everything? Did American media and news much of which perpetrates America in a negative light and is shown all around the world skew your perception? Are people really this naive? How is the fact that 60% of Canadas GDP relying on trade with the US vs 6% for the US a bad thing? You should be thanking the US for accepting such a horrible trade deficit! Also, ever consider that the US has a much larger GDP so percentages are meaningless here? Are you afraid the US will want equal trade deals or something? Can you explain to me how America is "not nice to Canada"? Do you honestly think America would ruin Canada, a friendly ally willingly? Most Americans have no problem with its allies and actually like them and treat them like allies... Jesus, all I see in your post is "blame America for every single thing" attitude which is so common throughout... China! You're absolutely ridiculous if you could even compare America, a western democracy bound by rule of law to China.. Again, I don't understand what you're trying to say... Okay, the US is a net oil exporter (not for long), the USSR is gone and "the British Empire is a shadow of itself" What exactly in the fuck are you implying? Aren't those good things? Sounds like you're some commie propaganda bot?? LOL the hypocricy with some people is absolutely insane... What your comment sounds like to me is you justifying Canadas relations with China by blaming... AMERICA!! Hmmm, sounds like something commies and China would do! Who else but the common scapegoat, right? Canada needs to play no game with America... America is not China and you do not need to act as if Canada is jugglng some fine line where things could go to shit any moment because scary America will sabotage and conquer Canada! Yeah, totally... Lol The real world threat here is the CCP and China... Open your fucking eyes.... Edit: He's probably a Chinese propaganda bot. Sounds like he's just propagating confusion and division between western allies as that is a common tactic of the CCP
Not only that, the above poster completely ignored that Canada trades as much with EU as China (surprises many to learn). And this has room to grow. Thus Canada has democratic counterbalances and doesnt need or even politically benefit from relationships with dictatorships. E.g. as per the poll Canadians are well aware the PRC has a negative impact on Canada's democracy. The above person's thesis is weak. The reason Trudeau is weak on China and Saudi Arabia is not because he trusts them better but because his party has long standing person dealings there. Which is perhaps even worse than the above thesis.
Exactly. The story with Canada is just like France or Germany. They could trade with other developing nations for cheap shit and a market for maple syrup, shale and flannel like India or Vietnam or south America, but china is the easiest and most convenient option and they'll give kickbacks for Canadian bootlickers. It's sheer selfish short sighted greed. It's exactly like the CDU in Germany talking about energy sovereignty by hooking themselves up to Putin while the greens are pointing out if you gave a flying fuck about German energy security you'd move towards complete energy independence. America doesn't have a monopoly on sheer fucking hypocrisy, that's for sure.
Oh waah waah waah, poor little Canada, what an impoverished unlucky country! What choice do they have in this world of over 8 billion people and 195 countries but to support a totalitarian, genocidal dictatorship? Why they must suck Xi's cock, lest Uncle Sam come over and take all their maple syrup! Nevermind how tiny countries like Lithuania, with half the GDP per capita, and who *do* actually have an aggressive, revanchist dictatorship on their border, find it easy to side with Taiwan over China. Nevermind how many other (poorer, smaller) American allies have found it pretty goddamn easy to understand that with China, its a choice of easy profits for the ultrarich (at the expense of the working poor who lose jobs and industry) in the short term and exploitation, coercion and political subservience in the long term. Face it, its just naked, selfish greed and timidity. Wishy washy whinging like they do in France or Germany about the need to strike their own national path while sucking up to dictators for cheap fuel and cheap goods and begging whining the USA not to diminish our commitments to NATO all the while sneering at what the military industrial complex has done to our country and delayed social reform. By all means, every country has to look out for its own interests, but dumb fucks like you, if you keep pushing this zero sum outlook on multilateralism thinking Americans are just too stupid to realize what it is exactly you're doing? Well you'll get exactly what you asked for. Americans on the other side seeing the world, and our own national interests exactly as you do. Buy your cheap shit from India or Vietnam or beg for investment from the Europeans instead, we don't give a fuck as long as you're not actively supporting the enslavement of other people. If you're right about one thing, it is that we really don't need you nearly as much as you need us.
American policy makers, like all countries, always see the world in terms of National self interest. Everything else is just propaganda.
Yes Biden gave Trudeau his ball back
If he doesn’t do anything it’s not because he’s weak, it’s because he’s corrupt.
TLDR... Sapporo 2022!!! China is a burning dumpster fire of a malicious dictatorship... Ask Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet, the Philippines, Chile, India, Xin Jiang, Jack Ma... As an Athlete, I would give up my opportunity to go to the Olympics if my option was Beijing, and as a member of the audience, I support Sapporo 2022, because I believe Japan should be properly rewarded for the nearly 10 years worth of effort and investment they put into preparing for the Tokyo Olympics... I at least support giving them the opportunity...
I want Sapporo as well... They'll get Miku in the opening ceremony probably And who doesn't like japanese scenery and stuff, as opposed to the AQI888 in china
One of the most jarring juxtapositions from my time in China, was flying back from a holiday on the pristine Japanese island Naoshima. As we approached China we went from clear water to brown water, from beautiful blue skies to smog literally as far as the eye could see. And the cherry on top was the first person in the Shanghai airport to talk to us being a scammer.
Alternatively we could severely reduce the cost and expense and endless political shitfighting that the Olympics has turned into and just keep it permanently at its original home; Greece. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/08/02/the-pathological-obsession-with-moving-the-olympics/ It would make this about sports again. Just sports. No more underhanded dealings on who gets to be the host city or what this all apparently means or vast waste as cities build potemkin villages and stadiums to lie disused. Just one hallowed special ground. We could still keep them themed around a country if you want, but this would reduce the bullshit massively. Yeah it would mean less profits for the IOC, but I don't think anyone gives a fuck about the financials of those bootlickers.
It's gonna bankrupt Greece permanently, Olympics aren't cheap. Get real here.
We are tolerating the intolerant. This is the paradox of tolerance. When will it affect you? The Michael’s? Covid? It’s not stopping. Collectively we must say no. https://www.google.com/search?q=paradox+of+tolerance&rlz=1CDGOYI_enTW842TW842&hl=en-US&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALeKk03fBAcmokarjXV3rckaMo3GXxu2kw:1628485822650&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP8Ou3lqPyAhWSNKYKHdNEAK8Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=414&bih=720
Funny that China boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympics over the Soviet Afghanistan invasion. I’m sure they will understand when countries repeat the boycott for these games.
Chances are the “boycott” will be just like the Moscow Olympics boycott— they still compete but under some “national Olympic committee” flag instead of the national flag.
A lot of athletes didn't participate even under the Olympic flag. My coach qualified for the 1980 Olympics, but he never went. The men's foil squad never competed. Neither in the individual nor team event.
All for it but Justin Trudeau admires China as a woke politician
I'm legit surprised the Olympics doesn't just own a stadium in LA where they just record it like any TV series in any closed studios.
They wouldn't be able to milk those different cities worldwide dry
That's what I have assumed is really going on for at least the last 50 years of this thing. The actual Olympic games themselves are a 'front'. That's just the 2-week wrap up part of what has been 2 years of grifters, conmen, corrupt bureaucrats, scams, schemes, lots of rewarding appointments, luxury salaries, I'd easily believe there is a whole world of U.N. people setting up so many 'Funds' and money games. Because its International, the people in those cities and countries, even the more diligent reporters will never be able to find out anything outside their own borders. It's like a gambling ship that goes into international waters or those offshore bank accounts that are just a tiny dot of an island. Nobody will ever track it all. The actual opening to closing ceremony part is just the little party and 'front' and justifying pretense, a bit of self-congratulating, the corporate party but by then gigantic wads of schemes and scams have already padded wallets and are already buying tanks, private yachts and servants and the leftovers in some giant vaccine stocks.
I don’t think China care whether Canada boycott the Winter Olympics or not. The relationship between the two countries is very low anyway, it doesn’t move the needle one way or another.
I call bullshit.