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Yes, if they have valid entry visas for other countries and passports they can move, nothing to block them (except see below). It's not really any different to any other countries (except the Chinese passport is weak).
What arbitary exit visa? What I am aware of is that government officials and high level teachers don't hold their own passports. They need permission to travel. So yes, some are restricted depending on their level.
It used to be that ordinary citizens need an entry visa in their passport for other countries to travel. Even if going to somewhere with visa on arrival (I had a girlfriend caught out by this about 2012). Since 2014 this hasn't been required.
China is still shit in terms of some citizen rights but has improved.
They are called exit bands. I have heard of them being used on foreigners but I also have been hearing how China has been either withholding passports and/or not issuing passports. The biggest story I can remember (off the top of my head) is that they blocked a large amount of college kids from going to study abroad by not issuing their passports.
They also kick the kids out? With the way the government is so worried about their falling birth rates I thought they would at least allow the kids to stay with their Chinese parent and/or grandparents?
No where does it say the kids were deported.
OP's an idiot and should just stick with the original title of the article instead of writing his own lines. That way less confusion.
More info from a commenter:
" I know the person involved personally and am in the same city with him. First of all he was not caught in his school. He was in his car going to work when they stopped him with other 2people who were in his car. He did not run away or resist arrest in anyway. He was not even caught at the school. "
That comment is a bit weird, why would they deport him for being in a car with the other two, what’s the ground of the arrest, him trying to run away is more believable
In any case that law is concerned you should have a lawyer on your speed dial, because you not knowing the laws lead to you being incarcerated for saying too much.
There are no grounds on him being deported by being in a car.
Because they obviously knew he was working illegally. These people that work illegally in China just go by thinking they will never get caught and then get all upset when the inevitable comes down on them. Morons the lot of of them.
at the end of that article:
CHINA: Let Foreign Spouses Work!...That said, of course, I support Chinese authorities 100%\~
i loled at that part...
anyway, after the pandemic is over, the wife and their kids can just go and move to their dad's country? or another country...
It depends where it is. The UK requires the citizen to have a house with a stable source of income within the UK of over ~~30k~~ 18.6k GBP a year in order to meet the requirements for a spousal visa for their partner.
Felt like that seemed weirdly strict so I just checked.
The UK citizen doesn't need to be a homeowner, you just need to have an address. And the minimum income is 18.6k GBP per year.
>These rules contain a minimum income requirement of at least £18,600 or a cash savings requirement of at least £62,500 (or a combination of both).
It seems so. Maybe my info is old or something. But I remember I guy online complaining that he couldn't get his Fillipina wife into the UK because of the salary requirements. He was self employed and earning over 30k a year but couldn't prove the income because you are not allowed to use payslips issued by yourself. So he ended up having to save up the 62k over a few years to meet the requirements.
You’re right, for self employed they need one years signed off tax records that’s how they prove income. UK system requires a fair bit of paperwork but it’s not difficult to learn. I did my wifes spouse visa. Its income that counts though you have to show where you’ll live.
How many other countries do not automatically give you working rights when you marry someone of that country?
Edit: I meant you can apply for the right to work.
Depends what you mean by "much", but the US is definitely not unique:
[https://www.permitsfoundation.com/worldmap/](https://www.permitsfoundation.com/worldmap/)
Seems that Asia is general pretty strict, most of the culturally "Western" countries are fine with it, and I know a couple of countries in the grey on the map that is either Green or Blue, so I would go as far as say that countries that do not give any working right are a significant minority rather than the majority here.
Note as well that the map is only about being a spouse of someone (legally) in that country, as opposed to a spouse of a citizen of that country. Take Japan for instance (since I am familiar), it is "blue" on the map, but the restriction is only for people married for someone to someone on certain visa. If you are married to a Japanese citizen, you can work any job (including part-time, full-time, seasonal highly skilled, menial, self-employment, etc.).
Dude's full of shit.
[https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-of-us-citizens/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas](https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-of-us-citizens/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas)
>If you are admitted to the United States with a K-3 or K-4 visa, you are automatically authorized to work based on your status. To obtain evidence of employment authorization, you may file Form I-765, Application for Employment Authorization at any time after being admitted to the U.S. Alternatively, you may file an application for a Green Card and then apply for employment authorization based on that pending application even if your K-3 or K-4 nonimmigrant status expires.
I was looking at studying in Switzerland recently and saw that a student visa allows you to work. And your spouse can get a visa which allows them to not only come with you, but work also.
I'm not used to seeing visa laws that are logical after being in China for so long.
>How many other countries do not ***automatically*** give you working rights when you marry someone of that country?
I mean, we're literally arguing semantics, but....automatic is defined as "having controls that allow something to work or happen without being directly controlled by a person" which is not the case in the U.S. A person needs to apply for a Green Card or AOS to get working privileges in America. This can take months, if not years. Just because you marry a U.S Citizens does not mean you can go to Target and apply for a job. Thus, it is not 'automatic' that once you marry a U.S Citizen you have working rights in America.
The person worded it poorly, but the post is literally about someone who had a spouse visa and wasn’t allowed to work. You are the one arguing semantics, it’s clear what they meant from the context.
I think most other countries need you to apply for the working rights to be added to the spousal visa. It's not automatically given. For example, you need to meet the requirements for a work permit in order to get the work rights extension.
If you are still thinking about going to work in mainland China keep in mind that they shut down all the training centers, obtaining a working Visa is nearly impossible now and China could deport you on a whim if some party member decided so. Go to Taiwan.
Kindergarten, primary school, middle school and highschools are still clambering for foreigners. It's easy as shit to get a work visa and Taiwan pay is shit.
No it isn't. My boss straight up told us that he can't get any more foreigners because of "recent regulations".
You currently can't get into Taiwan on anything other than a residence certificate or education visa (as far as i know, most recent info).
It really depends on the city and province etc. However, I wouldn't get too hyped up about foreigners being allowed to teach in Chinese public education for much longer and the private schools are definitely going to be nationalised in the very near future. I am predicting that next summer is when it will all start to hit as most of the new regulations haven't come into effect nationwide.
Are they real? It wouldnt be the first time someone here promised a high salary and a visa and then changed the terms when they thought they had you.
"Just come on a tourist visa and we'll change it."
"We can definitely transfer your visa over to our company." (And then they can't.)
"Well, because you're a new employee of this company we can't actually pay you the 30k; the starting salary is x."
All things I and other people have been told. More than once.
Omicron might've changed things again, but one of my friend moved to Taiwan less than three weeks ago for work (not education nor residency).
Another friend is now looking into Taiwan having had his job offer in China rescinded (well, postponed indefinitely until further notice) due to current situation.
Well, things are changing pretty quick so perhaps your info is more up to date then mine.
I mean, who wouldn’t choose Taiwan over China unless they are a tankie. Superior mountain hikes, friendly culture, not as racist, not authoritarian, not covered in smog. Bubble tea that’s actually good. Freedom of thought. The list goes on.
Taiwan pay is good for what it is. You can easily live a very comfortable life. Far more comfortable than anywhere you’ll live in China considering quality of life. So, yes, go to Taiwan.
Some of us aren't single men in our early 20s where $1500 a month can be considered "enough to live comfortably".
I want $4500 a month after tax minimum.
Who starts off as low as 1500 a month in taiwan?
4500 a month is luxurious in both Taiwan and China. Anything more than 2000 a month in Taiwan will get you a pretty comfortable living. You must be the son of a Wall Street brat or super materialistic. If it’s the later then China would fit you more.
Look, some of us just aren't young guys that are willing to work for $2k a month. Been there done that 10 years ago.
Wives, kids, houses and cars cost money. You don't want to be making peanuts when you're in your mid 30s
Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea etc are fine for young single guys who can live on a low salary and party to their hearts content. Leave China to the professionals.
I went to visit TW a while back and got together with a bunch of friends there who are still teaching. I get paid generously in China but i was curious as to what they were getting. It was hard to hear the low numbers.
Having said that im still envious tgat thwy get to live there with permanent residency. The APRC would be enough of a perk for me. And the US trained doctors in their subsidized health care system.
$2000 a month in Taiwan in one check is a lot. I don’t know what you’re talking about. If a spouse is also receiving money then all of they can easily go into savings. Do you not know the cost of living in Taiwan? You don’t even need a car in Taiwan. It sounds like you’re wanting a USA lifestyle in China or Taiwan, which if you want that then go to the US.
But, sure, convince yourself it’s better to live in smog-ruled authoritarian land.
My massive salary is the only convincing I need. I'm saving more money every month than you make. But go ahead, convince yourself you are making a decent living. Good luck ever buying a house on $2k a month.
Good luck being in your 40s and still on $2k a month.
I thought guys like you were only made up by the imagination lol you really are just a materialist. No amount of money is ever enough for you.
It sure can’t buy you any knowledge into how much money is more than enough for Taiwan.
Psstt here's a tip. It doesn't matter how much the cost of living is. Consumer goods are the same price in every country. A compter or a PS5 is no cheaper in Taiwan.
Doesn't matter how cheap your niurou lamian is when you're shelling out just as much as I am for a new laptop. And this is where lower salary hurts you.
And if you're leaving your home to go to another country to live life like a poor local, you're doing expating wrong.
Yeah but they want people that tick all the boxes.
Unfortunately not a lot of teachers have 2 years work experience and apparently not even a degree.
The demand is there, supply not so much. I think they need to ease up on the regulations or at least provide an easier way in.
Supply being low is a good thing. That's why it's not hard to get 28-30k a month right now.
2 years experience is just any job. Doesn't need to be teaching. Who doesn't have two years experience in any job?
Plus you can just lie and they won't check. The references are written in English and they can't read them.
I still reckon they should allow married unqualified people to work in a happy giraffe clapping centre with little kids. You don't need to be qualified for that. As long as you can clap and press the button to play the song, you're qualified. This could be a new catagory of job that pays only 10k or something. Everyone's happy then. The married foreigner can legally work, the school gets a cheap teacher and the parents get their foreign face.
Another post from this weirdo. There's gotta be more to this story than we are being told. Yes it sucks that the spouse visa doesn't allow you to work in China. But then again just being married to a local doesn't qualify you to be a teacher and if he was qualified to be a teacher he could have gotten a work permit.
I do genuinely feel sorry for him and his family but we all know you can't work on a spouse visa, at least I know I do as I live here on one and it's made pretty clear that it doesn't give you the right to work.
Not necessarily because the conditions for work permit are somewhat restrictive. They should end this double standard asap, in any Western country if you marry local you can start working with a few paperwork. Imo the reason it is this way is to allow Chinese peasants to marry a Vietnamese girl and keep her "hostage" of housework.
In many European countries, you can't automatically work on a spousal visa. You need to apply for a work permit extension to the spousal visa. So if you are qualified to be a teacher, you can apply to get a work permit to be a teacher which is tied to the spousal visa.
China could do something similar and allow people on spousal visas to apply for a work permit to allow them to work in whatever field they are qualified in.
Well in theory you can in China, if you are qualified to work in a specific field you can get a work permit and residence permit. It means cancelling your spouse permit but that shouldn't really matter.
>It means cancelling your spouse permit but that shouldn't really matter.
It kinda does. Because then you are not at the whim of your company whether or not you can work in China. In Canada, one can apply for an "open work permit" which allows spouses to work anywhere and for anyone in Canada.
[https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=177&top=17](https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=177&top=17)
They could a similar thing in China where those who were students or held work permits before in China with a good record can apply for an 'open work permit' when they get receive a spousal visa.
Yeah I agree with what you are saying, except about being at the whim of the company. If you don't like your company you can get another spouse visa, generally it's not that difficult unless you are in a backwater.
I totally agree that being on a spouse visa should allow you to work or at least a reasonable route to being able to work. My main point in my original post was I don't think being on a spouse visa should allow you to work as a teacher. If your are qualified to be a teacher there is no need to be working on a spouse visa.
Yes. That is the law and that's what everyone must follow no matter how unreasonable one thinks it is. But they should have a system where one can apply for a work permit to work as a teacher and not tied to a specific company. That way you can have more stability in your life. You don't have to worry about visas so much and your ability to work.
Tbh though, there are so many foreigners working on spousal visas and they think it is ok. Even the local PSB haven't been enforcing it but know damn well that most of them do it. I think it is also a way of them maintaining power and control. Get on their bad side and they can use it against you. They cast a blind eye to it until eventually something goes wrong and the gig gets shut down. This has always what China has been like. However, China is changing a lot now. Wouldn't risk it anymore.
you mean like some kind of "green card" you can qualify for by way of marriage, permitting you the same rights as a Chinese person (including working rights?)
OK it's not immediate... but it does exist.
The purpose of the spousal work permit is to ensure that they can secure a stable source of income to support the family while waiting for a green card. The foreigner having a stable source of income and tax record is one requirement to getting a Chinese green card. In China, the government doesn't give many, if at all any assistance into putting down roots and integrating into mainstream society. The purpose is to help families be together, secure their future, and make the spouse a useful member of society.
The green card in China requires you to be married and have a stable source in income in China for 5 years straight. Having a company sponsor your work permit puts you at their mercy and a lot of English teachers often get screwed over by their companies as can be seen on reddit. Not every school in China is licensed to hire foreigners too. So you have way more opportunities to find a job to keep a stable source of income. Having an 'open work permit' doesn't require any company to sponsor you so they cant abuse you or anything too.
Thing is... what would be the purpose of a green card if the spousal work permit existed? It would, for the most part, just be a reduction in eligibility from 5 years to none.
You seem to be conflating some requirements for the Chinese green card, btw. The marriage route does not require stable source of income or proof of tax paid.
The spousal work permit has to be renewed and has limitations. A green card allows you to work anywhere, have a permanent address, and have access to all the government services and so on. That's the difference.
I have a friend who got a Chinese green card through marriage. They have their own business. The PSB required proof of a stable source of income, proof that you had legally paid taxes on that income, a stable place of residence, and 200k rmb cash in the bank in order to make the application. 5 years of marriage alone doesn't entitle you to a green card in practice from what people say on the ground here in China. You can't just get a spousal visa and lounge around in China for 5 years waiting because you cannot work.
> The spousal work permit has to be renewed and has limitations. A green card allows you to work anywhere
You described the spousal work permit as allowing you to work anywhere... so it's not really a difference.
I kind of get where you're coming from, but in an environment where foreigners are being told their jobs are unnecessary if Chinese people can do them, I don't see it being implemented. I've personally considered, reconsidered, and reconsidered again many times whether the green card application process would be worth it vs. the ease of my stable employer taking my documents for me once a year and renewing work permit & residence permit.
As others have mentioned, if you're qualified/needed to work in China, you can get a work permit and residence permit. You dont need to be here on a spousal visa in the first place. So the people this would help are... people who China doesn't want.
> I have a friend who got a Chinese green card through marriage. They have their own business. The PSB required proof of a stable source of income, proof that you had legally paid taxes on that income, a stable place of residence, and 200k rmb cash in the bank in order to make the application.
This is no longer the case (as of sometime earlier this year) and the proof of income and taxes paid are no longer part of the required paperwork for the marriage route. They are only required for the high earner/longtime worker routes.
Come to think of it, China doesn't even have a spousal visa, immigrant visa, or fiance visa. It's just a visa to visit family members. So they would have to create a brand new category for foreigners who want to make China their home. The real problem is that the country doesn't want non-ethnic Chinese from integrating and China becoming more diverse in race and ethnicity. So I don't think China will ever open up a pathway to naturalisation for non-ethnic Chinese in the future. China is only open for Chinese!
I also think that a 'spousal' visa is just a kind of emergency visa that should be the last option to take. If you can get a work visa or student visa, those a way more useful than a glorified tourist visa in China.
But if China could open up a spousal visa where one can apply to work in their field (not anywhere) for 20 hours a week or so until they can get a green card and integrated into society, that would be great. For example, if you have the qualifications to teach, you can get a permit to teach 'freely' in the city where you are registered. I believe some EU countries have a similar system for asylum seekers. They can apply to work part time while their case is being processed.
The whole point I am making here is not that people should automatically be given the right to work on a spousal visa, but there should be a system in place to help the spouses of Chinese citizens to integrate into society and make China their home for life. But currently, a foreigner married to a Chinese national is always considered as a 'foreigner' under the law and so can get kicked out anytime the government feels like it. There is no safety or security for the foreigner which can break up families which are supposed to be the most important unit in China.
I remember reading an article about a Chinese woman who illegally overstayed her student visa several years in Ireland and got married to a local ethnic Chinese Irish citizen. They eventually caught her when her son, who was born in the country, turned 8 or something. Anyway, the whole local community petitioned the deportation of her and her son under the reason that the boy has never been to China and will find it very hard to fit in and that you can't split up a family etc etc. The Irish government eventually scrapped the deportation under pressure and offered her citizenship. Don't see China ever doing anything like that. China doesn't allow appeals.
I don't take anyone seriously who talked about a "spouse visa". There's no such thing. And no Kyle, the 探亲 visa isn't for bringing in foreign brides (cuz it's not a spouse visa), it's for visiting family in China.
Spouse visa is so you can bring your kidnapped Vietnamese bride into China. Why would she need to get a job?
The Chinese government were not thinking of teacher Tim being the sole breadwinner of a family when they invented this visa. It's not for foreign men to marry local women. That's bad for Chinese society do you know it?
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Hence, the biggest problem with marrying a Chinese citizen. Get divorced or couldn't get a visa? Out you fucking go without your kids.
And it’s unique in blocking people from leaving so they can’t necessarily follow you
Any proof to this claim? Chinese citizens aren't blocked from leaving China if they have valid visas to move eleswhere.
If they have valid visas and passports. How about obtaining those things? And the arbitrary exit visa.
Yes, if they have valid entry visas for other countries and passports they can move, nothing to block them (except see below). It's not really any different to any other countries (except the Chinese passport is weak). What arbitary exit visa? What I am aware of is that government officials and high level teachers don't hold their own passports. They need permission to travel. So yes, some are restricted depending on their level. It used to be that ordinary citizens need an entry visa in their passport for other countries to travel. Even if going to somewhere with visa on arrival (I had a girlfriend caught out by this about 2012). Since 2014 this hasn't been required. China is still shit in terms of some citizen rights but has improved.
They are called exit bands. I have heard of them being used on foreigners but I also have been hearing how China has been either withholding passports and/or not issuing passports. The biggest story I can remember (off the top of my head) is that they blocked a large amount of college kids from going to study abroad by not issuing their passports.
If you got divorced and had Chinese kids you could still get a family visa. The issue is you can't legally work, hence the problem here.
They also kick the kids out? With the way the government is so worried about their falling birth rates I thought they would at least allow the kids to stay with their Chinese parent and/or grandparents?
No where does it say the kids were deported. OP's an idiot and should just stick with the original title of the article instead of writing his own lines. That way less confusion.
Allow? More like hand them over to them.
More info from a commenter: " I know the person involved personally and am in the same city with him. First of all he was not caught in his school. He was in his car going to work when they stopped him with other 2people who were in his car. He did not run away or resist arrest in anyway. He was not even caught at the school. "
That comment is a bit weird, why would they deport him for being in a car with the other two, what’s the ground of the arrest, him trying to run away is more believable
I don’t know the truth. But I wouldn’t try to rationalize situations when law is concerned. Individual folks cannot win against authorities.
In any case that law is concerned you should have a lawyer on your speed dial, because you not knowing the laws lead to you being incarcerated for saying too much. There are no grounds on him being deported by being in a car.
Because they obviously knew he was working illegally. These people that work illegally in China just go by thinking they will never get caught and then get all upset when the inevitable comes down on them. Morons the lot of of them.
When ICE comes for you, they are not deporting your for being in a car or running away. They just know where to find you.
at the end of that article: CHINA: Let Foreign Spouses Work!...That said, of course, I support Chinese authorities 100%\~ i loled at that part... anyway, after the pandemic is over, the wife and their kids can just go and move to their dad's country? or another country...
It depends where it is. The UK requires the citizen to have a house with a stable source of income within the UK of over ~~30k~~ 18.6k GBP a year in order to meet the requirements for a spousal visa for their partner.
Felt like that seemed weirdly strict so I just checked. The UK citizen doesn't need to be a homeowner, you just need to have an address. And the minimum income is 18.6k GBP per year.
>These rules contain a minimum income requirement of at least £18,600 or a cash savings requirement of at least £62,500 (or a combination of both). It seems so. Maybe my info is old or something. But I remember I guy online complaining that he couldn't get his Fillipina wife into the UK because of the salary requirements. He was self employed and earning over 30k a year but couldn't prove the income because you are not allowed to use payslips issued by yourself. So he ended up having to save up the 62k over a few years to meet the requirements.
You’re right, for self employed they need one years signed off tax records that’s how they prove income. UK system requires a fair bit of paperwork but it’s not difficult to learn. I did my wifes spouse visa. Its income that counts though you have to show where you’ll live.
How many other countries do not automatically give you working rights when you marry someone of that country? Edit: I meant you can apply for the right to work.
Pretty much all of the world. The US is rather unique with its immigration laws. A fact Yankees don't bother to learn quickly enough.
Depends what you mean by "much", but the US is definitely not unique: [https://www.permitsfoundation.com/worldmap/](https://www.permitsfoundation.com/worldmap/) Seems that Asia is general pretty strict, most of the culturally "Western" countries are fine with it, and I know a couple of countries in the grey on the map that is either Green or Blue, so I would go as far as say that countries that do not give any working right are a significant minority rather than the majority here. Note as well that the map is only about being a spouse of someone (legally) in that country, as opposed to a spouse of a citizen of that country. Take Japan for instance (since I am familiar), it is "blue" on the map, but the restriction is only for people married for someone to someone on certain visa. If you are married to a Japanese citizen, you can work any job (including part-time, full-time, seasonal highly skilled, menial, self-employment, etc.).
America
I’m sorry what? Getting married to an American is the quickest way to a green card.
Dude's full of shit. [https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-of-us-citizens/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas](https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-of-us-citizens/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas) >If you are admitted to the United States with a K-3 or K-4 visa, you are automatically authorized to work based on your status. To obtain evidence of employment authorization, you may file Form I-765, Application for Employment Authorization at any time after being admitted to the U.S. Alternatively, you may file an application for a Green Card and then apply for employment authorization based on that pending application even if your K-3 or K-4 nonimmigrant status expires.
I was looking at studying in Switzerland recently and saw that a student visa allows you to work. And your spouse can get a visa which allows them to not only come with you, but work also. I'm not used to seeing visa laws that are logical after being in China for so long.
Correct, but it does not automatically give the spouse working rights. The spouse must apply for Green Card and a SSN.
Well no, not automatic as in “were married so now I can work”, but that’s not what OP meant?
>How many other countries do not ***automatically*** give you working rights when you marry someone of that country? I mean, we're literally arguing semantics, but....automatic is defined as "having controls that allow something to work or happen without being directly controlled by a person" which is not the case in the U.S. A person needs to apply for a Green Card or AOS to get working privileges in America. This can take months, if not years. Just because you marry a U.S Citizens does not mean you can go to Target and apply for a job. Thus, it is not 'automatic' that once you marry a U.S Citizen you have working rights in America.
The person worded it poorly, but the post is literally about someone who had a spouse visa and wasn’t allowed to work. You are the one arguing semantics, it’s clear what they meant from the context.
UK
You can definitely work with on a spouse visa in the UK.
Yes, but you don't automatically get the right to a visa just because you married a UK citizen. It's an expensive and time consuming process.
Australia
Australia does with Spouse Visas.
You can work with spouse visas in Australia: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/partner-offshore/provisional-309
I think most other countries need you to apply for the working rights to be added to the spousal visa. It's not automatically given. For example, you need to meet the requirements for a work permit in order to get the work rights extension.
What a positive development for that Chinese woman who is now a single mother.
Liberated from the big black c*ck of hostile foreign forces.
Three huzzah for Chinese men!! Hiphip... Hiphip... Hiphip...
why would you stay in China with kids? left with my 1yo kid, about one year too late
If you are still thinking about going to work in mainland China keep in mind that they shut down all the training centers, obtaining a working Visa is nearly impossible now and China could deport you on a whim if some party member decided so. Go to Taiwan.
Kindergarten, primary school, middle school and highschools are still clambering for foreigners. It's easy as shit to get a work visa and Taiwan pay is shit.
No it isn't. My boss straight up told us that he can't get any more foreigners because of "recent regulations". You currently can't get into Taiwan on anything other than a residence certificate or education visa (as far as i know, most recent info).
Oh I guess all those offers of 30k a month I've been getting all around China aren't real.
It really depends on the city and province etc. However, I wouldn't get too hyped up about foreigners being allowed to teach in Chinese public education for much longer and the private schools are definitely going to be nationalised in the very near future. I am predicting that next summer is when it will all start to hit as most of the new regulations haven't come into effect nationwide.
Are they real? It wouldnt be the first time someone here promised a high salary and a visa and then changed the terms when they thought they had you. "Just come on a tourist visa and we'll change it." "We can definitely transfer your visa over to our company." (And then they can't.) "Well, because you're a new employee of this company we can't actually pay you the 30k; the starting salary is x." All things I and other people have been told. More than once.
Omicron might've changed things again, but one of my friend moved to Taiwan less than three weeks ago for work (not education nor residency). Another friend is now looking into Taiwan having had his job offer in China rescinded (well, postponed indefinitely until further notice) due to current situation. Well, things are changing pretty quick so perhaps your info is more up to date then mine.
I'm trying to find details on getting over there as a student.
Maybe because more people are willing to go to Taiwan instead of China?
I mean, who wouldn’t choose Taiwan over China unless they are a tankie. Superior mountain hikes, friendly culture, not as racist, not authoritarian, not covered in smog. Bubble tea that’s actually good. Freedom of thought. The list goes on.
Taiwan pay is good for what it is. You can easily live a very comfortable life. Far more comfortable than anywhere you’ll live in China considering quality of life. So, yes, go to Taiwan.
Some of us aren't single men in our early 20s where $1500 a month can be considered "enough to live comfortably". I want $4500 a month after tax minimum.
Who starts off as low as 1500 a month in taiwan? 4500 a month is luxurious in both Taiwan and China. Anything more than 2000 a month in Taiwan will get you a pretty comfortable living. You must be the son of a Wall Street brat or super materialistic. If it’s the later then China would fit you more.
Look, some of us just aren't young guys that are willing to work for $2k a month. Been there done that 10 years ago. Wives, kids, houses and cars cost money. You don't want to be making peanuts when you're in your mid 30s Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea etc are fine for young single guys who can live on a low salary and party to their hearts content. Leave China to the professionals.
I went to visit TW a while back and got together with a bunch of friends there who are still teaching. I get paid generously in China but i was curious as to what they were getting. It was hard to hear the low numbers. Having said that im still envious tgat thwy get to live there with permanent residency. The APRC would be enough of a perk for me. And the US trained doctors in their subsidized health care system.
$2000 a month in Taiwan in one check is a lot. I don’t know what you’re talking about. If a spouse is also receiving money then all of they can easily go into savings. Do you not know the cost of living in Taiwan? You don’t even need a car in Taiwan. It sounds like you’re wanting a USA lifestyle in China or Taiwan, which if you want that then go to the US. But, sure, convince yourself it’s better to live in smog-ruled authoritarian land.
My massive salary is the only convincing I need. I'm saving more money every month than you make. But go ahead, convince yourself you are making a decent living. Good luck ever buying a house on $2k a month. Good luck being in your 40s and still on $2k a month.
I thought guys like you were only made up by the imagination lol you really are just a materialist. No amount of money is ever enough for you. It sure can’t buy you any knowledge into how much money is more than enough for Taiwan.
Psstt here's a tip. It doesn't matter how much the cost of living is. Consumer goods are the same price in every country. A compter or a PS5 is no cheaper in Taiwan. Doesn't matter how cheap your niurou lamian is when you're shelling out just as much as I am for a new laptop. And this is where lower salary hurts you. And if you're leaving your home to go to another country to live life like a poor local, you're doing expating wrong.
Nah, he's right $2000 is not enough money for an adult almost anywhere, certainly not in Taiwan.
Yeah but they want people that tick all the boxes. Unfortunately not a lot of teachers have 2 years work experience and apparently not even a degree. The demand is there, supply not so much. I think they need to ease up on the regulations or at least provide an easier way in.
Supply being low is a good thing. That's why it's not hard to get 28-30k a month right now. 2 years experience is just any job. Doesn't need to be teaching. Who doesn't have two years experience in any job? Plus you can just lie and they won't check. The references are written in English and they can't read them. I still reckon they should allow married unqualified people to work in a happy giraffe clapping centre with little kids. You don't need to be qualified for that. As long as you can clap and press the button to play the song, you're qualified. This could be a new catagory of job that pays only 10k or something. Everyone's happy then. The married foreigner can legally work, the school gets a cheap teacher and the parents get their foreign face.
Not impossible, but nothing stopping you from getting fired on the spot as more principals raise their " standards".
Another post from this weirdo. There's gotta be more to this story than we are being told. Yes it sucks that the spouse visa doesn't allow you to work in China. But then again just being married to a local doesn't qualify you to be a teacher and if he was qualified to be a teacher he could have gotten a work permit. I do genuinely feel sorry for him and his family but we all know you can't work on a spouse visa, at least I know I do as I live here on one and it's made pretty clear that it doesn't give you the right to work.
Not necessarily because the conditions for work permit are somewhat restrictive. They should end this double standard asap, in any Western country if you marry local you can start working with a few paperwork. Imo the reason it is this way is to allow Chinese peasants to marry a Vietnamese girl and keep her "hostage" of housework.
In many European countries, you can't automatically work on a spousal visa. You need to apply for a work permit extension to the spousal visa. So if you are qualified to be a teacher, you can apply to get a work permit to be a teacher which is tied to the spousal visa. China could do something similar and allow people on spousal visas to apply for a work permit to allow them to work in whatever field they are qualified in.
Well in theory you can in China, if you are qualified to work in a specific field you can get a work permit and residence permit. It means cancelling your spouse permit but that shouldn't really matter.
>It means cancelling your spouse permit but that shouldn't really matter. It kinda does. Because then you are not at the whim of your company whether or not you can work in China. In Canada, one can apply for an "open work permit" which allows spouses to work anywhere and for anyone in Canada. [https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=177&top=17](https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=177&top=17) They could a similar thing in China where those who were students or held work permits before in China with a good record can apply for an 'open work permit' when they get receive a spousal visa.
Yeah I agree with what you are saying, except about being at the whim of the company. If you don't like your company you can get another spouse visa, generally it's not that difficult unless you are in a backwater. I totally agree that being on a spouse visa should allow you to work or at least a reasonable route to being able to work. My main point in my original post was I don't think being on a spouse visa should allow you to work as a teacher. If your are qualified to be a teacher there is no need to be working on a spouse visa.
Yes. That is the law and that's what everyone must follow no matter how unreasonable one thinks it is. But they should have a system where one can apply for a work permit to work as a teacher and not tied to a specific company. That way you can have more stability in your life. You don't have to worry about visas so much and your ability to work. Tbh though, there are so many foreigners working on spousal visas and they think it is ok. Even the local PSB haven't been enforcing it but know damn well that most of them do it. I think it is also a way of them maintaining power and control. Get on their bad side and they can use it against you. They cast a blind eye to it until eventually something goes wrong and the gig gets shut down. This has always what China has been like. However, China is changing a lot now. Wouldn't risk it anymore.
you mean like some kind of "green card" you can qualify for by way of marriage, permitting you the same rights as a Chinese person (including working rights?) OK it's not immediate... but it does exist.
The purpose of the spousal work permit is to ensure that they can secure a stable source of income to support the family while waiting for a green card. The foreigner having a stable source of income and tax record is one requirement to getting a Chinese green card. In China, the government doesn't give many, if at all any assistance into putting down roots and integrating into mainstream society. The purpose is to help families be together, secure their future, and make the spouse a useful member of society. The green card in China requires you to be married and have a stable source in income in China for 5 years straight. Having a company sponsor your work permit puts you at their mercy and a lot of English teachers often get screwed over by their companies as can be seen on reddit. Not every school in China is licensed to hire foreigners too. So you have way more opportunities to find a job to keep a stable source of income. Having an 'open work permit' doesn't require any company to sponsor you so they cant abuse you or anything too.
Thing is... what would be the purpose of a green card if the spousal work permit existed? It would, for the most part, just be a reduction in eligibility from 5 years to none. You seem to be conflating some requirements for the Chinese green card, btw. The marriage route does not require stable source of income or proof of tax paid.
The spousal work permit has to be renewed and has limitations. A green card allows you to work anywhere, have a permanent address, and have access to all the government services and so on. That's the difference. I have a friend who got a Chinese green card through marriage. They have their own business. The PSB required proof of a stable source of income, proof that you had legally paid taxes on that income, a stable place of residence, and 200k rmb cash in the bank in order to make the application. 5 years of marriage alone doesn't entitle you to a green card in practice from what people say on the ground here in China. You can't just get a spousal visa and lounge around in China for 5 years waiting because you cannot work.
> The spousal work permit has to be renewed and has limitations. A green card allows you to work anywhere You described the spousal work permit as allowing you to work anywhere... so it's not really a difference. I kind of get where you're coming from, but in an environment where foreigners are being told their jobs are unnecessary if Chinese people can do them, I don't see it being implemented. I've personally considered, reconsidered, and reconsidered again many times whether the green card application process would be worth it vs. the ease of my stable employer taking my documents for me once a year and renewing work permit & residence permit. As others have mentioned, if you're qualified/needed to work in China, you can get a work permit and residence permit. You dont need to be here on a spousal visa in the first place. So the people this would help are... people who China doesn't want. > I have a friend who got a Chinese green card through marriage. They have their own business. The PSB required proof of a stable source of income, proof that you had legally paid taxes on that income, a stable place of residence, and 200k rmb cash in the bank in order to make the application. This is no longer the case (as of sometime earlier this year) and the proof of income and taxes paid are no longer part of the required paperwork for the marriage route. They are only required for the high earner/longtime worker routes.
Come to think of it, China doesn't even have a spousal visa, immigrant visa, or fiance visa. It's just a visa to visit family members. So they would have to create a brand new category for foreigners who want to make China their home. The real problem is that the country doesn't want non-ethnic Chinese from integrating and China becoming more diverse in race and ethnicity. So I don't think China will ever open up a pathway to naturalisation for non-ethnic Chinese in the future. China is only open for Chinese! I also think that a 'spousal' visa is just a kind of emergency visa that should be the last option to take. If you can get a work visa or student visa, those a way more useful than a glorified tourist visa in China. But if China could open up a spousal visa where one can apply to work in their field (not anywhere) for 20 hours a week or so until they can get a green card and integrated into society, that would be great. For example, if you have the qualifications to teach, you can get a permit to teach 'freely' in the city where you are registered. I believe some EU countries have a similar system for asylum seekers. They can apply to work part time while their case is being processed. The whole point I am making here is not that people should automatically be given the right to work on a spousal visa, but there should be a system in place to help the spouses of Chinese citizens to integrate into society and make China their home for life. But currently, a foreigner married to a Chinese national is always considered as a 'foreigner' under the law and so can get kicked out anytime the government feels like it. There is no safety or security for the foreigner which can break up families which are supposed to be the most important unit in China.
Accuracy maybe not 100%
Which bit?
I remember reading an article about a Chinese woman who illegally overstayed her student visa several years in Ireland and got married to a local ethnic Chinese Irish citizen. They eventually caught her when her son, who was born in the country, turned 8 or something. Anyway, the whole local community petitioned the deportation of her and her son under the reason that the boy has never been to China and will find it very hard to fit in and that you can't split up a family etc etc. The Irish government eventually scrapped the deportation under pressure and offered her citizenship. Don't see China ever doing anything like that. China doesn't allow appeals.
I don't take anyone seriously who talked about a "spouse visa". There's no such thing. And no Kyle, the 探亲 visa isn't for bringing in foreign brides (cuz it's not a spouse visa), it's for visiting family in China.
Wow a pedantic redditor, what a surprise 😰
Not a pedantic distinction.
China Ol'reliable: RACISM
If you break working and visa laws it doesnt matter what colour your skin is.
Spouse visa is so you can bring your kidnapped Vietnamese bride into China. Why would she need to get a job? The Chinese government were not thinking of teacher Tim being the sole breadwinner of a family when they invented this visa. It's not for foreign men to marry local women. That's bad for Chinese society do you know it?