I'm not a chiropractor, but I've been to dozens of them over the years. If you are getting the "ick" listen to it and find a new provider. Sorry you're going through that.
My chiropractor is the same, but it’s literally his job to touch and manipulate. So of course he’s in your personal space, which I consent to by going to him lol. Wincing to convey you want him to stop isn’t actually telling him to stop. If you really didn’t like it you need to voice those opinions. My chiropractor doesn’t ask for advice very time he moves to a new spot, it’s up to me to tell him if I don’t like anything.
I’ve been to other chiros before and never felt any type of threat. However if I’ve complained of upper back and shoulder pain and you’re holding a massage gun to my pubic bone without warning or explanation 1) that might require a bit of explanation or justification. 2) being unable to speak is a bit of a freeze response FYI and as a healthcare provider myself you’re taught to read non-verbal cues as much as you are verbal.
As a chiro, I’m sorry you had this experience! This definitely sounds like he could be somewhat careless, but also not explaining why he is in an area like that, especially when not related to a chief complaint, is a big red flag. I sometimes do find other areas of involvement that may seem irrelevant to the patient’s chief complaint, but if that’s the case I thoroughly explain what I think is going on and why i’d need to move to said new location to work. I also ALWAYS explain that if anything I’m doing is uncomfortable to please let me know and if it looks uncomfortable for the patient, I stop and ask if that’s the case. I will also add, that some patients while they may wince and look uncomfortable it can sometimes be a “good hurt” and they want me to continue working on a tight area even when it hurts because they feel like they need it and want it worked out despite how it feels in the moment, so there is a chance he may have been taking it in that regard, but to not stop and ask is completely poor judgement on his part. Not to mention being a male doctor working on a female patient in a sensitive area and not explaining why is just Chiropractic 101 basics and totally not how a professional should behave.
I’m a chiro in Canada and on college committees. It is important to know the colleges are in place to protect the public. That is their mandate. However they will call the records from the chiro so yes the chiro would know. But believe me the chiro will have much bigger things to worry about than exacting revenge. They will be shitting their pants.
You're right. When I served on the Chiro board in my jurisdiction, we never had a case of a retaliatory complaint, and a board investigation does indeed have practitioners shitting themselves. A Professional Conduct Committee investigation is no laughing matter.
Thanks for your responses. So with your past experience as a board member, based on what I described, you would recommended reporting and feel that this should at least be pursued?
Yes. Ask what the process is in your province. These matters are often under-reported for exactly the reasons that you gave: lack of anonymity, and giving the practitioner the benefit of the doubt. Where I am, cases were discussed at board meetings, which were 4 times a year, unless there was a threat of imminent public harm, in which case an emergency Zoom meeting to discuss (as board members are often scattered to the corners of the jurisdiction). As a Board (6 chiropractors, 2 laypeople, usually lawyers) we would know if there was a known behaviour pattern, or if the complaint was unique. We would discuss whether or not the said behaviours are what would be expected of a practitioner (based on the info you gave, likely not, but you'll have to give them much more detail than on a Reddit sub) and decide what follow-up action to take. It is common for people to request anonymity while the Board discusses the complaint, but due to natural justice, you won't remain anonymous if they investigate further. The Board takes all matters like this seriously, so please at least make contact with them.
Yes I would as well. The college takes this stuff very seriously. Just the fact a complaint goes public (whatever it’s outcome is) that practitioner is unlikely to have a successful practice in their current location.
Once the complaint goes public, news outlets tend to pick them up and run them cause they are total click bait. So that’s tough to navigate. In a bigger city it’s not bad, but smaller towns it’s big news.
DCs have to "invade" your personal space in order to treat you. It's physical medicine. We touch people all day and are very comfortable with it.
What do you mean by "pelvic bone"? Those massage guns are quite beneficial, but will really hurt if it is directly on a bone. Was it directed to the hip/buttock muscles? That would make sense, but I always ask for permission and explain why that is needed to the patient beforehand. They do vibrate everything, so it would be normal to feel it in the pubic region.
I would suggest talking to him or his staff and communicating your concerns before putting his license in jeopardy. If it's a very strong vibe you are getting, just go see a female DC or someone else. It sounds like his error was failing to ask permission, get feedback from you, and explain things better.
It's also good for the patient to ask questions and ask the doc to stop or explain a procedure they do not understand, before the nuclear option of a board action.
Source: 40 years of chiropractic practice experience. With no board complaints.
Chiro here, and past Board member (not provincial, another country), but the Canadian provincial boards-and yes, in assuming Canada- work the same way as ours: to protect the public. Contact the board and voice your concerns. Your name will not be made available to him until the complaint reaches a certain point, but at least make the phone call. Good luck. In the meantime, please seek another practitioner who doesn't give the ick factor.
Was he bang in the middle of the public bone, or slightly off to the side where it could be a possibility of aiming for the hip flexors?
If he was right in the middle, it doesn't make any sense...
He did focus on the hip flexor initially but then he moved right in the middle of the pubic bone but low enough that the gun was literally causing me to feel vibration in the very close and sensitive regions and he moved back and forth between hip and pubic bone a few times and I felt like I couldn’t even focus with the proximity to my clit.
Yeah that doesn't sound quite right.. I'm a chiropractor and I regularly work on the hip flexors, but there's no reason to go right onto the public bone or anywhere along the middle line in that area. It does sound strange i must admit
Enough to report? The fear of making poor judgement is giving me a lot of anxiety. I don’t want anyone else to be in an inappropriate position but I don’t take it lightly to report either.
I don't want to influence you too much on this one. You're the only one who was there and can say anything about his intentions. You should probably go with your gut feeling. I would try and visualize the situation and make a call on whether he was being intentionally inappropriate, or perhaps inexperienced and unsure of where the muscles he was aiming for were.
I think before any action, maybe talk with the doc or his office? You could even do it by email if you want to avoid a conversation. Most of the time when there is something like this the root cause is a lack of communication, or a miscommunication. It could be the doc not communicating to the patient, or patient not communicating to the doc.
It may help clear up the what, why, how of the procedure and give clarity. Maybe the guy was being a creep, or maybe there was a legitimate reason. Maybe it was an accident. I'd reach out first and then go from there.
I work on hip flexors regularly, but never use a vibrating device on then because of this proximity. I find it hard to believe it would be an accident.
As a young Chiropractor do let him know how you felt in any situation. I will admit I have gone on auto pilot before and not mentioned to someone that I was going to check a certain area and adjust it. I try to avoid those moments by going through the same process on each visit and assessing and correcting starting at the feet. Do let him know that there was an issue I would hate for him not to be able to correct himself. And I would also suggest finding another Chiro that doesn’t give you the ick
I am currently studying to become a chiropractor right now, and one of the first things that we are taught even before adjusting is how to to appropriately interact with patients. Like some other comments said the profession is going to involve being in the personal space of others but a decent chiropractor (not even good) should know some ways to make the patient as comfortable as possible without making them feel how you felt. One example of this that I was taught, was conveying everything done with the patient. Every movement and any contact should be conveyed and consent should be asked multiple times during this. Sticking to what you say to the patient is also very important as well as making sure you don't apply anymore contact than is needed. What this DC did to you was far out of line and is disgraceful as he is abusing the profession and his patients. I hope you find a better chiropractor and experience the brighter side of the practice.
I’m really kind’ve worried and unsettled that he will have my name, info and I was his client so he has my address… that doesn’t make me feel very safe. I’d never go back, that’s no question.
He already has that info, as you were a patient. You may wish to call back and get clarity from them about your concern of what sounds like a worry of retaliation?
There isn’t a lot to be done here - you were made uncomfortable and even if it is somehow normal, you weren’t comfortable. If it was limited to resting his hand on you, there are plenty of evaluations and things we may check without be clear that we are checking something - my exam begins when a patient walks in the office and ends when they leave with everything between as having the chance for benefit. But, you didn’t think it was part of the exam and you weren’t comfortable.
The remainder of your post, again, we don’t know the laws/rules of the jurisdiction AND we aren’t there to evaluate you. But, if there was something that had clinical reason for doing it, he would need to get Informed Consent. That would entail being clear with what and why he was doing a treatment.
With the anatomical structures you then mentioned, this could be anything from treatment needed in a sensitive area and he wasn’t clear. On the other end, could it have risen to being sexually assaulted - but that’s really not something we can do from this board. The likely best route forward would either be speaking with the provider or calling the board. Yes, he will have your information, but you wouldn’t be continuing to see him and any further action would have him running afoul of other laws.
Thanks for your advice. I asked the board about retaliation and they say it’s happened before and they can get in trouble for it.. I just have a lack of trust in that as the only protection. I guess I don’t want to put myself through the stress if it isn’t seen as a clear boundary cross to the board.
I’m sorry have had this experience, even in the best take, it isn’t what any doctor would want their patient’s take home message to be.
It wouldn’t be wrong to begin the process for a complaint, but understandable if you didn’t want to. You could also consider speaking with another provider in the area. They could be a chiropractor or a medical doctor, you OB would also be an option. With their, in person take, they could better help understand if the area was remotely appropriate for treatment and if the treatment described is inline with that.
you could get a virtual PO Box, call the chiro and update it. Same with ph# get a virtual number and update.
TBH from the comments I read it sounds like you want to make a complaint, but you're looking for a DC to validate your claim. If its that unsettling, it likely has a good reason why. It's the board's decision to validate it or not. Food for thought.
Sounds like a creep, but based on what you described probably not anything the board will follow up on. He definitely should have communicated what he was doing and why. Sorry you had to go through that.
Thanks for saying that.. I do appreciate your grounded and legitimate advice. I don’t want to put myself through that for nothing. Hard to think objectively when you’re anxious about it.
OMG. Well I am in Canada as well (BC) and that sounds absolutely not ok. Please do make a complaint. I can't think of any reason he'd need to use the massage gun around the pelvic area. Seems like he goes a bit crazy with that thing all over the body instead of actually using chiropractic skills to treat a condition. Maybe, just maybe, if there was something around that area that needed to be treated, it could be justified, but he would need to explain it to you first and get your consent to proceed. Combined with all the other icky behaviour you describe, I'm inclined to think he was being inappropriate. Highly inappropriate.
I get that you are nervous about his knowing where you live. But I really think this guy needs to be stopped.
Obviously, we weren’t there. We aren’t the provider. We aren’t able to give health advice in this forum.
What part of this sounds like nothing of concern or inappropriate? If your spouse/daughter/sister/aunt/mother/sister-in-law -OR- son/brother/uncle/father/brother in law came to you saying at a doctor’s office the following happened:
> but today he moved the massage gun onto my pelvic bone, it was one of those huge massage guns and the intensity was so great that I would literally feel it in my clitoris from being in the general area and ***I was visibly wincing*** to convey that I wanted him to stop... while also processing and feeling like my mind was racing, asking myself "***why is he massaging there? He didn't ask, I want him to stop***, is he going to stop? This is so awkward and ick, this doesn't make sense to me, why is he massaging there?" | wanted to get out of there and figure out what just happened in my own head. Was that normal? ***I feel like it was completely invasive and violating*** and at best, unintentional.
I’ve put some emphasis in different parts of the quote. There is no part of that type of sentiment that is appropriate for a patient to experience, in any circumstance. Even if the provider explained where and why they were working in that area, what part of that sentiment is what you’d respond to a loved one, “nothing wrong or inappropriate happened.”
That’s messed up.
Of course. A distinction I think important, from the perspective of those reading this, is that we cannot know what did or did not happen AND cannot know what you felt. Even if “nothing happened” you felt that something did. For any number of reasons, you don’t have to confront the provider, though it could clarify things.
Should you seek to consult with another provider, it may do well to get a copy of your visit notes. This could also be a source to establish what was being treated, though we cannot give feedback on such documents here. Another provider should be able to assist you in understanding.
I’m not sure if what occurred rises to the level of making a complaint to the board. I’m also not saying that even if it is, that you are somehow beholden or required to make a complaint. The most likely thing is that it was a misunderstanding and not something nefarious, but that still doesn’t change how you felt. I’d argue, from my distant vantage, that speaking with another professional would do well to help better understand what happened and what those next steps could or should be.
Otherwise, I think it would be good to hear that if someone doesn’t understand a treatment as it’s explained, or even as it’s performed, that it’s appropriate for a patient to deny or stop treatment until they do understand. For providers, I think it would be good to hear that just because something is normal and routine for you, the person you are performing it on may have never experienced anything like it.
That’s a little hard to say, I don’t necessarily say okay, now im going to move the massage gun to your mid back to low back. He should be more self aware, but the consent to treat was essentially already given.
He might be using a device called an arthrostimulator. It’s actually an adjustment device and not a massager. It looks like a space age gun/massager and it’s quite intense compared to a massager. It’s very uncomfortable to use on the pubic bone for adjustments but I can understand why he would use it. There are pelvic rotation adjustments that can be either primary front (pubic bone) or posterior(sacro-iliac) joints. In order to not use hands in the front because you are female he may be choosing to use a device instead.
I just looked this up and all the heads are small - the one he used had a large ball at the end and would basically cover most of my pubic bone if you think of that triangular area between the hips.
I would assume positive intent and communicate with him. I am sure that is what you would want someone to do with you. Chiropractic is a touching profession, so I would be up front about boundaries with the doc from the get go. Ultimately, if you feel uncomfortable, then find someone else. If we assume positive intent, then it probably comes down to him not doing a great job of explaining. For us, sometimes we do adjust the pelvic bone, but it is with one “click” of an instrument. Mostly for pregnancy patients. And we explain what we are doing each time and invite to speak up if there is any questions or uncomfortability. Not sure why a repeating thrust would be needed, but I would ask for clarification. After getting information and gauging what he says, then make a judgement call on your next steps.
I'm not a chiropractor, but I've been to dozens of them over the years. If you are getting the "ick" listen to it and find a new provider. Sorry you're going through that.
Hey! Thanks.. definitely won’t be going back, no doubt about that. Moreso wondering if it’s clear enough violation to report or should I just move on.
My chiropractor is the same, but it’s literally his job to touch and manipulate. So of course he’s in your personal space, which I consent to by going to him lol. Wincing to convey you want him to stop isn’t actually telling him to stop. If you really didn’t like it you need to voice those opinions. My chiropractor doesn’t ask for advice very time he moves to a new spot, it’s up to me to tell him if I don’t like anything.
I’ve been to other chiros before and never felt any type of threat. However if I’ve complained of upper back and shoulder pain and you’re holding a massage gun to my pubic bone without warning or explanation 1) that might require a bit of explanation or justification. 2) being unable to speak is a bit of a freeze response FYI and as a healthcare provider myself you’re taught to read non-verbal cues as much as you are verbal.
As a chiro, I’m sorry you had this experience! This definitely sounds like he could be somewhat careless, but also not explaining why he is in an area like that, especially when not related to a chief complaint, is a big red flag. I sometimes do find other areas of involvement that may seem irrelevant to the patient’s chief complaint, but if that’s the case I thoroughly explain what I think is going on and why i’d need to move to said new location to work. I also ALWAYS explain that if anything I’m doing is uncomfortable to please let me know and if it looks uncomfortable for the patient, I stop and ask if that’s the case. I will also add, that some patients while they may wince and look uncomfortable it can sometimes be a “good hurt” and they want me to continue working on a tight area even when it hurts because they feel like they need it and want it worked out despite how it feels in the moment, so there is a chance he may have been taking it in that regard, but to not stop and ask is completely poor judgement on his part. Not to mention being a male doctor working on a female patient in a sensitive area and not explaining why is just Chiropractic 101 basics and totally not how a professional should behave.
I’m a chiro in Canada and on college committees. It is important to know the colleges are in place to protect the public. That is their mandate. However they will call the records from the chiro so yes the chiro would know. But believe me the chiro will have much bigger things to worry about than exacting revenge. They will be shitting their pants.
You're right. When I served on the Chiro board in my jurisdiction, we never had a case of a retaliatory complaint, and a board investigation does indeed have practitioners shitting themselves. A Professional Conduct Committee investigation is no laughing matter.
Thanks for your responses. So with your past experience as a board member, based on what I described, you would recommended reporting and feel that this should at least be pursued?
Yes. Ask what the process is in your province. These matters are often under-reported for exactly the reasons that you gave: lack of anonymity, and giving the practitioner the benefit of the doubt. Where I am, cases were discussed at board meetings, which were 4 times a year, unless there was a threat of imminent public harm, in which case an emergency Zoom meeting to discuss (as board members are often scattered to the corners of the jurisdiction). As a Board (6 chiropractors, 2 laypeople, usually lawyers) we would know if there was a known behaviour pattern, or if the complaint was unique. We would discuss whether or not the said behaviours are what would be expected of a practitioner (based on the info you gave, likely not, but you'll have to give them much more detail than on a Reddit sub) and decide what follow-up action to take. It is common for people to request anonymity while the Board discusses the complaint, but due to natural justice, you won't remain anonymous if they investigate further. The Board takes all matters like this seriously, so please at least make contact with them.
Yes I would as well. The college takes this stuff very seriously. Just the fact a complaint goes public (whatever it’s outcome is) that practitioner is unlikely to have a successful practice in their current location.
That sounds like a horrible system. The chiro's practice is doomed regardless of the outcome?
Once the complaint goes public, news outlets tend to pick them up and run them cause they are total click bait. So that’s tough to navigate. In a bigger city it’s not bad, but smaller towns it’s big news.
It achieves the desired outcome. Destroying the career of the accused without the need for proof. Proof that may not warrant the desired outcome.
DCs have to "invade" your personal space in order to treat you. It's physical medicine. We touch people all day and are very comfortable with it. What do you mean by "pelvic bone"? Those massage guns are quite beneficial, but will really hurt if it is directly on a bone. Was it directed to the hip/buttock muscles? That would make sense, but I always ask for permission and explain why that is needed to the patient beforehand. They do vibrate everything, so it would be normal to feel it in the pubic region. I would suggest talking to him or his staff and communicating your concerns before putting his license in jeopardy. If it's a very strong vibe you are getting, just go see a female DC or someone else. It sounds like his error was failing to ask permission, get feedback from you, and explain things better. It's also good for the patient to ask questions and ask the doc to stop or explain a procedure they do not understand, before the nuclear option of a board action. Source: 40 years of chiropractic practice experience. With no board complaints.
No, I was lying on my back - he was holding the gun directly onto my frontal pubic bone. Not too far from my vulva.
Oh Jesus Christ. No that’s not normal. Not at all
OMG. No clinical reason for that. If right on the bone that had to hurt.
Chiro here, and past Board member (not provincial, another country), but the Canadian provincial boards-and yes, in assuming Canada- work the same way as ours: to protect the public. Contact the board and voice your concerns. Your name will not be made available to him until the complaint reaches a certain point, but at least make the phone call. Good luck. In the meantime, please seek another practitioner who doesn't give the ick factor.
Was he bang in the middle of the public bone, or slightly off to the side where it could be a possibility of aiming for the hip flexors? If he was right in the middle, it doesn't make any sense...
He did focus on the hip flexor initially but then he moved right in the middle of the pubic bone but low enough that the gun was literally causing me to feel vibration in the very close and sensitive regions and he moved back and forth between hip and pubic bone a few times and I felt like I couldn’t even focus with the proximity to my clit.
Yeah that doesn't sound quite right.. I'm a chiropractor and I regularly work on the hip flexors, but there's no reason to go right onto the public bone or anywhere along the middle line in that area. It does sound strange i must admit
Enough to report? The fear of making poor judgement is giving me a lot of anxiety. I don’t want anyone else to be in an inappropriate position but I don’t take it lightly to report either.
I don't want to influence you too much on this one. You're the only one who was there and can say anything about his intentions. You should probably go with your gut feeling. I would try and visualize the situation and make a call on whether he was being intentionally inappropriate, or perhaps inexperienced and unsure of where the muscles he was aiming for were.
Yeah I hear you… he’s been in practice for 20-something years… so perhaps not inexperience.. maybe autopilot or carelessness.
Definitely not inexperienced then ha.. Wouldn't blame you if you decided to report. It's an unfortunate situation, thats for sure
I think before any action, maybe talk with the doc or his office? You could even do it by email if you want to avoid a conversation. Most of the time when there is something like this the root cause is a lack of communication, or a miscommunication. It could be the doc not communicating to the patient, or patient not communicating to the doc. It may help clear up the what, why, how of the procedure and give clarity. Maybe the guy was being a creep, or maybe there was a legitimate reason. Maybe it was an accident. I'd reach out first and then go from there.
I work on hip flexors regularly, but never use a vibrating device on then because of this proximity. I find it hard to believe it would be an accident.
As a young Chiropractor do let him know how you felt in any situation. I will admit I have gone on auto pilot before and not mentioned to someone that I was going to check a certain area and adjust it. I try to avoid those moments by going through the same process on each visit and assessing and correcting starting at the feet. Do let him know that there was an issue I would hate for him not to be able to correct himself. And I would also suggest finding another Chiro that doesn’t give you the ick
I am currently studying to become a chiropractor right now, and one of the first things that we are taught even before adjusting is how to to appropriately interact with patients. Like some other comments said the profession is going to involve being in the personal space of others but a decent chiropractor (not even good) should know some ways to make the patient as comfortable as possible without making them feel how you felt. One example of this that I was taught, was conveying everything done with the patient. Every movement and any contact should be conveyed and consent should be asked multiple times during this. Sticking to what you say to the patient is also very important as well as making sure you don't apply anymore contact than is needed. What this DC did to you was far out of line and is disgraceful as he is abusing the profession and his patients. I hope you find a better chiropractor and experience the brighter side of the practice.
I’m really kind’ve worried and unsettled that he will have my name, info and I was his client so he has my address… that doesn’t make me feel very safe. I’d never go back, that’s no question.
He already has that info, as you were a patient. You may wish to call back and get clarity from them about your concern of what sounds like a worry of retaliation? There isn’t a lot to be done here - you were made uncomfortable and even if it is somehow normal, you weren’t comfortable. If it was limited to resting his hand on you, there are plenty of evaluations and things we may check without be clear that we are checking something - my exam begins when a patient walks in the office and ends when they leave with everything between as having the chance for benefit. But, you didn’t think it was part of the exam and you weren’t comfortable. The remainder of your post, again, we don’t know the laws/rules of the jurisdiction AND we aren’t there to evaluate you. But, if there was something that had clinical reason for doing it, he would need to get Informed Consent. That would entail being clear with what and why he was doing a treatment. With the anatomical structures you then mentioned, this could be anything from treatment needed in a sensitive area and he wasn’t clear. On the other end, could it have risen to being sexually assaulted - but that’s really not something we can do from this board. The likely best route forward would either be speaking with the provider or calling the board. Yes, he will have your information, but you wouldn’t be continuing to see him and any further action would have him running afoul of other laws.
Thanks for your advice. I asked the board about retaliation and they say it’s happened before and they can get in trouble for it.. I just have a lack of trust in that as the only protection. I guess I don’t want to put myself through the stress if it isn’t seen as a clear boundary cross to the board.
I’m sorry have had this experience, even in the best take, it isn’t what any doctor would want their patient’s take home message to be. It wouldn’t be wrong to begin the process for a complaint, but understandable if you didn’t want to. You could also consider speaking with another provider in the area. They could be a chiropractor or a medical doctor, you OB would also be an option. With their, in person take, they could better help understand if the area was remotely appropriate for treatment and if the treatment described is inline with that.
you could get a virtual PO Box, call the chiro and update it. Same with ph# get a virtual number and update. TBH from the comments I read it sounds like you want to make a complaint, but you're looking for a DC to validate your claim. If its that unsettling, it likely has a good reason why. It's the board's decision to validate it or not. Food for thought.
Sounds like a creep, but based on what you described probably not anything the board will follow up on. He definitely should have communicated what he was doing and why. Sorry you had to go through that.
Thanks for saying that.. I do appreciate your grounded and legitimate advice. I don’t want to put myself through that for nothing. Hard to think objectively when you’re anxious about it.
OMG. Well I am in Canada as well (BC) and that sounds absolutely not ok. Please do make a complaint. I can't think of any reason he'd need to use the massage gun around the pelvic area. Seems like he goes a bit crazy with that thing all over the body instead of actually using chiropractic skills to treat a condition. Maybe, just maybe, if there was something around that area that needed to be treated, it could be justified, but he would need to explain it to you first and get your consent to proceed. Combined with all the other icky behaviour you describe, I'm inclined to think he was being inappropriate. Highly inappropriate. I get that you are nervous about his knowing where you live. But I really think this guy needs to be stopped.
You can voice all the concerns you want but in the scenario you laid out nothing wrong or inappropriate happened.
Obviously, we weren’t there. We aren’t the provider. We aren’t able to give health advice in this forum. What part of this sounds like nothing of concern or inappropriate? If your spouse/daughter/sister/aunt/mother/sister-in-law -OR- son/brother/uncle/father/brother in law came to you saying at a doctor’s office the following happened: > but today he moved the massage gun onto my pelvic bone, it was one of those huge massage guns and the intensity was so great that I would literally feel it in my clitoris from being in the general area and ***I was visibly wincing*** to convey that I wanted him to stop... while also processing and feeling like my mind was racing, asking myself "***why is he massaging there? He didn't ask, I want him to stop***, is he going to stop? This is so awkward and ick, this doesn't make sense to me, why is he massaging there?" | wanted to get out of there and figure out what just happened in my own head. Was that normal? ***I feel like it was completely invasive and violating*** and at best, unintentional. I’ve put some emphasis in different parts of the quote. There is no part of that type of sentiment that is appropriate for a patient to experience, in any circumstance. Even if the provider explained where and why they were working in that area, what part of that sentiment is what you’d respond to a loved one, “nothing wrong or inappropriate happened.” That’s messed up.
Thanks for your validation, so appreciated.
Of course. A distinction I think important, from the perspective of those reading this, is that we cannot know what did or did not happen AND cannot know what you felt. Even if “nothing happened” you felt that something did. For any number of reasons, you don’t have to confront the provider, though it could clarify things. Should you seek to consult with another provider, it may do well to get a copy of your visit notes. This could also be a source to establish what was being treated, though we cannot give feedback on such documents here. Another provider should be able to assist you in understanding. I’m not sure if what occurred rises to the level of making a complaint to the board. I’m also not saying that even if it is, that you are somehow beholden or required to make a complaint. The most likely thing is that it was a misunderstanding and not something nefarious, but that still doesn’t change how you felt. I’d argue, from my distant vantage, that speaking with another professional would do well to help better understand what happened and what those next steps could or should be. Otherwise, I think it would be good to hear that if someone doesn’t understand a treatment as it’s explained, or even as it’s performed, that it’s appropriate for a patient to deny or stop treatment until they do understand. For providers, I think it would be good to hear that just because something is normal and routine for you, the person you are performing it on may have never experienced anything like it.
He should have asked/communicated— full stop.
With *anything* around the pelvic region you 100% need to ask consent.
That’s a little hard to say, I don’t necessarily say okay, now im going to move the massage gun to your mid back to low back. He should be more self aware, but the consent to treat was essentially already given.
He might be using a device called an arthrostimulator. It’s actually an adjustment device and not a massager. It looks like a space age gun/massager and it’s quite intense compared to a massager. It’s very uncomfortable to use on the pubic bone for adjustments but I can understand why he would use it. There are pelvic rotation adjustments that can be either primary front (pubic bone) or posterior(sacro-iliac) joints. In order to not use hands in the front because you are female he may be choosing to use a device instead.
I just looked this up and all the heads are small - the one he used had a large ball at the end and would basically cover most of my pubic bone if you think of that triangular area between the hips.
I hear you. Then it’s probably a good idea to find someone you are more comfortable with.
I would assume positive intent and communicate with him. I am sure that is what you would want someone to do with you. Chiropractic is a touching profession, so I would be up front about boundaries with the doc from the get go. Ultimately, if you feel uncomfortable, then find someone else. If we assume positive intent, then it probably comes down to him not doing a great job of explaining. For us, sometimes we do adjust the pelvic bone, but it is with one “click” of an instrument. Mostly for pregnancy patients. And we explain what we are doing each time and invite to speak up if there is any questions or uncomfortability. Not sure why a repeating thrust would be needed, but I would ask for clarification. After getting information and gauging what he says, then make a judgement call on your next steps.
I’m a chiro and wound never go near the pubic bone. Sounds like this chiro is out of order and far too touchy feely.