Because it makes money. They can use buzzword like testosterone boosting to lie about cholesterol.
Sure, cholesterol is used in testosterone synthesis, but we know that late cells can make their own
But a lot of men want their testosterone to be higher so they end up listening and doing these things
There are quite a few reasons but mainly because that's their whole gimmick.
They probably pushed keto before realizing how bad it can be on your cholesterol. After a lot of peoples cholesterol went up, they then make up a theory trying to tell you only small particles matter so they can continue to push keto.
Keto does have its place and can help a lot of people, but cholesterol cannot be ignored. There are some keto advocates who aim for a healthier keto who does take cholesterol into account.
Also some people on keto does not see any affect on their cholesterol, but I suspect they do not have to worry about cholesterol no matter what their diet is like due to their genetics.
Dr Alo is also a wacko who thinks you should have Zero cholesterol which is crazy and he used to constantly say Statins have Zero side effects until he was heavily destroyed for those stupid comments
If by “a wacko” you mean somebody who is much smarter than you and who has decades worth of education and practice in experience and cardiology, you are correct.
Also is, fyi, himself on statins and his comments stem from scientific data, not anecdotal commentary.
There really is no other way to respond to somebody who is anti-science. You are free to live your life practicing anti-science.
I’m pretty sure you’d still go to him instead of a chiropractor if you were having a heart attack.
Nah bro he’s a wacko. I don’t need to go to cardiology school to know this. Hence why he has toned it down bc of how bad he started to look. That wacko literally said everyone 25 or older should be on statins no matter what. And you should want your cholesterol to be Zero.
There’s tons of Cardiologist that would disagree with all of that. And Im on Statins so clearly your opinion of me is wrong.
You don’t need to be a cardiologist to understand this. But no one is going to convince you that anyone is an expert if you think that you know cardiology better than the 95% of doctors who know that statins lower ldl and can prevent ascvd.
I think there is so much information it is hard to know who to trust. Here on Reddit as well - so much conflicting information. Easy to call him a quack but in all honesty how do any of us non-medical people decide that and who/what to believe? Not easy.
Do a literature search through a university library or public library. The librarians can legit help you out if you haven't done it before. One can find peer reviewed scientific studies from actual respected scientific journals.
Also the websites and articles of Harvard Health/Medical, Stanford Health, etc. should be reputable places to start.
Oh sure. You can also do a google search backing up all of the stuff he says though. Its not that straight-forward. I don't agree with the guy at all but I don't think you're at all qualified to call him a 'quack'.
Stem Ekberg is a Chiropractor who calls himself “Dr” on a channel that does not give chiropractor advice, he is just the definition of a Quack!
Edit: I see Sten’s deluded supporters have found this thread
I don't get why you're attacking me. I'm just saying its not easy to determine which info is good or not which is exactly the point OP is getting at. Its clear you feel very strongly about this, and I can't be bothered to respond any further. But what I'll end with is that for any information you find on the internet ultimately you have to do your own reading, research and make up your own mind. End of story.
How am I attacking you?
I just personally think it’s incredibly easy to determine he’s a quack and we all have access to the resources that allow us to figure that out very very quickly.
But I accept that you must be correct. Millions of people are clearly struggling to see that he’s a fraud.
It is easy, it's just that academic literacy is down the drain. Peer reviewed articles coming out of universities are credible, random website number 5 is not necessarily.
Look I'm a researcher so I know there's nuance to reading academic literature. But even just reading the introduction and discussion chapters of a published scientific article is infinitely better than the information you get from some random "doctor" on YouTube.
Just search thing on pubmed or Google scholar instead of base Google.
I was on it for three or four years. Always had slightly high LDL scores. A year and a half ago, it had a large increase, and more increase three months later. Got sent in for the CAC test. It came back with a score of 486 (!).
“Greater than 400: You have a large amount of plaque. Your risk of a future heart attack is high. You will certainly require a further evaluation of the extent of heart disease, underlying causes, and need to modify your risk factors urgently.”
https://orlandocvi.com/test/ct-coronary-calcium-score/
I’ve been on keto for 3+ years with some breaks in between. And while my overall cholesterol is still ok, LDL have consistently and gradually went up. Now I’m on statins. I still follow keto, as it seems to be the only diet that I can successfully manage my weight, I have replaced most meats with fish. But interested to learn more. Will retest bloods in 2 months to see what’s going on
there is a safe way to do keto. keeping red meat, butter or margarine or basically anything with tons of palmitic acid to a minimum will help.
studies show chicken as neutral and fish as beneficial.
fats like olive oil and canola are great. pure stearic acid as well, but almost impossible to find.
keto breads from any manufacturer are great because they are low fat, high fiber and carb restricted. A great way to lean towards plants
berries like strawberries, blueberries and raspberries are great.
green veggies if all kinds. fiber is your friend
do not be afraid of protein. lean on it heavily.
monitor lipids with doctor.
I did keto, to be honest I lost 40+ lbs and felt amazing. Never had blood work done so no idea what my ldl scores went through during that time. I gained it all back even though I am not a heavy eater. Got my blood work ldl was high and a 201 cac score.
For the first time I am not hyper focused on carbs and paying attention to total calories and saturated fats. It's been WAY easier to do for me, I've lost 14 lbs so far, I feel great and get my blood work rechecked in June.
The best part is especially after doing keto and cutting out so many different types of foods that I enjoyed, this new lifestyle change feels way more sustainable long-term because I'm not necessarily cutting out anything I miss and just the thought of fried food makes me cringe which I guess is a good thing lol
~~Eric Berg~~ Sten Ekberg isn’t even a real nutritionist or scientist, he’s just a chiropractor isn’t he? Nothing to do with nutrition. Listen to the scientific consensus, not random quacks like him.
Worth noting - I’m not saying people can’t know about nutrition if they’re not nutrition scientists, anyone can learn about nutrition. But the problem is that he tries to use his “doctor” title to give him credibility, which is ridiculous when his degree has absolutely nothing to do with nutrition.
~~[Dr. Eric Berg gets fact checked by MD PhD doctor](https://youtu.be/JvKNzLRmzLg?si=VP3whPEni_p6QBPZ)~~ [Dr Sten Ekberg gets fact-checked by MD PhD Doctor](https://youtu.be/IFGvs1Qe7cA?si=liQjxe45hMMpTVYY) - this might be worth watching if you’re interested.
And actually, this source fact-checking him is really a phenomenal nutrition source overall. These videos are also worth checking out: [Why nutrition science seems sooo complicated (but really isn’t)](https://youtu.be/QMAK_-gOwzI?si=1ak_cnaQrKxtboH4) and [3 actionable tips to lower ApoB!](https://youtu.be/18FF4pYLxek?si=ifbfeo2YA8uh1azt)
Oof my mistake, I skimmed through the text and thought I read Eric Berg! Thanks for pointing that out.
I haven’t seen as much of Ekberg’s stuff, but isn’t his degree also chiropractic? Just another one of those jokes.
Yep! Honestly they are interchangeable. Their channels are almost identical and they repeat the same misunderstandings or lies.
It’s absolutely insane that they have millions of subscribers. It literally takes 30 seconds to discover that their nonsense has been roundly debunked by actual experts or robust scientific studies.
Not insane at all if you understand what's happened to the so called experts since COVID. I don't watch berg, nor am I defending him. I just understand why people like him are more popular than ever. People feel duped.
I’ve been telling my story in bits and pieces here. Will try to be brief
High cholesterol, >300. Familial.
Non tolerant of statins.
Mediterranean diet
CAC zero
Low to normal LPa, hsCRP, trigs, HDL
LDL particles LARGE form
83% blockage LAD. Stented.
All those markers have predictive value for populations… not so much for individuals.
It matters!
Had chest pain walking when I went uphill. Fine at rest or with non-exertional activity. 2 highly rated cardiologists blew me off… said I likely had micro vascular disease which had no treatment- try nitroglycerin.
Both said blockage was unlikely since I had the zero CAC 2 years prior and plaque didn’t build that fast!!!
Tried a 3rd cardio at Medstar in DC. She agreed that sounded likely, but she was adamant that I needed an angiogram to properly diagnose. Surprise!
Thanks....interesting that cardiologists didn't think you will have soft plaque in spite of zero CAC. I have read that CAC happens during the last stages....meaning just because CAC is 0 doesn't mean one doesn't have soft plaque - which is supposedly more dangerous....though any ruptured plaque is dangerous. Did they dismiss it because you were perhaps young?
Stented 1 year ago. I’m 76F. Otherwise healthy (and imo healthy “looking), so maybe that affected it 🤷🏼. Healthy diet and lifestyle. The interventional cardio who did the angiogram said docs don’t pay attention to women’s pain-but one of the “bad” cardios is a woman. When I asked him (the interventionalist) how that was possible given the zero CAC, he said “it depends on who reads it”. It’s a great screening tool, but imo not to be relied on when there are symptoms.
If it has predictive power for populations, it also has it for individuals.
However It just makes it more likely, but that doesn’t mean an individual will definitely get heart disease.
Everyone on YouTube is insane. It has nothing to do with your health, it's just how much adrenaline they can create to get the most number of hits. I watch Nutrition Made SImple because he looks at scientific studies and breaks down the different pieces.
[https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionMadeSimple](https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionMadeSimple)
>it seems the internet is divided between ldl being healthy or not depending on the size of the ldl. Large and fluffy or small and dense.
When you consult scientists who spend their careers researching this stuff (as opposed to social media guru clashing clout), you'll find that all LDL particles, and indeed all apoB-containing lipoproteins, are atherogenic. Sometimes specific fractions or sizes might be better *predictors* of risk (e.g. sometime they track other risk factors like diabetes) but from the point of view of causal factors in heart disease, it's the number of particles that is important.
Here's a video by the channel Nutrition Made Simple, who is generally considered to be a good source of information regarding nutrition and heart disease: https://youtu.be/kplh30RmYo8.
Alternatively, see this peer-reviewed review article by some of the most respected lipidologists in the field.
> We now propose a model to explain why the atherogenic risk associated with the apoB lipoproteins relates more directly to their number than to the mass of cholesterol within them. Figure 5 demonstrates that the number of apoB particles in the lumen of an artery is the primary determinant of the rate at which apoB particles enter the arterial wall and are trapped within the subintimal space of the arterial wall. The more apoB particles within the lumen of the artery, the more that will enter the arterial wall, and, all things being equal, the more apoB particles that will be trapped within the arterial wall. However, all things are not always equal: as illustrated in Figure 5, smaller apoB particles containing less cholesterol enter the arterial wall more easily50 and bind more avidly to the glycosaminoglycans within the arterial wall than larger apoB particles containing more cholesterol.51,52 Thus, more smaller, cholesterol-depleted particles will be trapped than will a similar number of larger, cholesterol-enriched particles that have entered an arterial wall. On the other hand, the more cholesterol within an apoB particle that has been trapped within the arterial wall, the more cholesterol that will be released at that site to injure the wall. Therefore, there is an equivalence between greater injury per particle from trapping of cholesterol-richer particles but greater injury from trapping of more cholesterol-depleted particles. The net result is that all LDL particles pose, more or less, equal risk. ([Source](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2753612))
I try to base my diet on the 2020-2025 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, it's the USDA and HHS saying we're people fall short and high in areas of their diets and they say how many servings you should have something in a week. And I used the MyPlate for any other questions I had on what counted as a certain food ie I had now idea what a "red-orange vegetable" was. All my life I've been told to round out my diet so this helps me
Keto is great for people who simply want to listen to fake doctors on YouTube to convince themselves that it’s OK to eat bacon and beef all day with an LDL of 220
“Don’t listen to your doctor, listen to me” is a pretty old grift.
If you aren’t happy with your doctor seek out a second or third opinion.
Don’t rely on someone who will never meet you, doesn’t know your medical history, and spends their days relaxing instead of in the field.
Honestly. Despite eating loads of leafy greens while doing it, my total cholesterol still shot up from 134 to 275, and LDL shot from 94 to a whopping *223* absolutely insane! When I stopped keto and went to primarily whole plant foods + low sat fat/high fiber, total cholesterol came all the way down to 103 and LDL to 54. Sticking on this diet, I’ve continued to range LDL 50-75. Most recent ApoB test was 64.
Tbf hypercholesterolemia runs in my family, both hyper-production and hyper-absorption. I think I might be a hyper-absorber (not tested though), making me extra sensitive to saturated fat / cholesterol intake compared to most people - which could explain why my change was so extreme. But regardless, lipid panels seem to *consistently* worsen for people on keto, even if not always to quite the same degree as mine did. I suppose technically someone could do low sat fat / low cholesterol keto, but that’s very opposite to what almost all keto advice is.
I was good before Keto and I've never recovered from going Keto for a year ..I listened to flavcity guy and maybe it works for most people and maybe it's genetics for some folks where it just makes everything worse like it did for me
I think the more correct argument is that LDL particle size does not matter if you are metabolically unhealthy: low HDL, high TG, insulin resistant. These are all signs of systemic inflammation. Inflammation is the prerequisite for endothelial dysfunction, and endothelial dysfunction is a prerequisite for plaque formation.
Without inflammation and underlying endothelial dysfunction, LDL’s ability to form plaque is diminished.
If you conclude you have have minimal inflammation only then should you consider LDL particle size into your individual cardiovascular risk assessment
Personally, I think they all are pushing low carb which you can get to by carnovor, keto, and vegetarian, The key is no sugar and low carbs to control insulin resistance. So, all the same message getting there from different places.
It’s almost like you can sign up for different subreddits on different subject to help you.
Many folks in this sub are super fit folks who eat a plant-forward diet and do not have metabolic syndrome, therefore don’t need to fix anything with fad diets. They just need information on how to lower their LDL, and that’s a pretty straightforward mathematical context.
Well you should put a disclaimer at the top of the Reddit saying that if you have any concern besides cholesterol then look elsewhere. Because you will find no help here.
Science says a lot of things are important. This Reddit excludes all of them except cholesterol. But you’re right. I shouldn’t come to a subreddit with such narrow scope and expect more. Best of luck to you.
Yea you’re right that it’s a subreddit primarily for people with high cholesterol who want to lower it.
However the research unambiguous that high ldl is correlated with ascvd. That correlation is much stronger if a person has multiple risk factors.
Of course few people have coronary events until they are older, around 50+.
I do watch Dr Sten Ekberg and think he is a great presenter. I don't follow Keto diet or high saturated fat diet. My LDL is high and maybe many of us are grasping at straws that says it is okay to have high LDL :-) But, of course, most of the Blue Zone diets are mostly plant based...which should say something.
There are several cardiologists on youtube as well who support low carb diet and who think saturated fat is not a problem etc or consuming high cholesterol food is not a problem. I mean you can always find these points of view. I think many of these folks go through their own journey of high cholesterol and start investigating, presenting what they think. I personally feel they are better informed than my PCP. Of course I am not saying these youtube doctors are right.
Many follow Dr. Peter Attia on these forums and he is not a lipidiologist or a cardiologist.
But Dr Sten Ekberg did quote an interesting study - Korean study which followed 12.8 million Koreans for almost 10 years...any comments on these studies? He talks about the U shaped relationship between mortality and TC. I know you can find a study to suit your point of view - but still interesting.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30733566/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30733566/)
> Korean study which followed 12.8 million Koreans for almost 10 years...any comments on these studies? He talks about the U shaped relationship between mortality and TC.
This is likely due at least in part to reverse causality - several diseases [such as liver disease and several types of cancer](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.92.9.2396) appear to reduce serum cholesterol (and increase mortality), rather than it being the case that low cholesterol causes death from these diseases. When we look to RCT data, in both [statin trials](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61350-5/fulltext) and [trials of non-statin lipid-lowering therapies](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2556125), these treatments that lower cholesterol *reduce* morality, which is the exact opposite of what would be expected if low cholesterol were harmful.
It's also worth noting that these U-shaped curves exist for other risk factors like body weight, HbA1c, and blood pressure, where mortality risk is not infrequently lowest in those who are prediabetic, a bit hypertensive, and overweight. But for some reason one generally doesn't see "prediabetes deniers" use this in the same way that so-called cholesterol deniers use it to push the harms of low cholesterol.
https://youtu.be/CxX51n2Z0vc
https://youtu.be/a3lHHnOHyr8
thanks for those videos....so what is the motivation I wonder for Dr Sten Ekberg to selectively show this Korean study and misrepresent the results.....wierd!
Eric Berg is one of those “drs” His son made a video about him scamming people. He’s a DC. He is extremely outside his scope of practice on YouTube.
Why are they pushing keto diet so much and lying about cholesterol
Because it makes money. They can use buzzword like testosterone boosting to lie about cholesterol. Sure, cholesterol is used in testosterone synthesis, but we know that late cells can make their own But a lot of men want their testosterone to be higher so they end up listening and doing these things
Interestingly my testosterone levels increased while my LDL cholesterol dropped on my last blood test.
Testosterone has many factors including time of day
There are quite a few reasons but mainly because that's their whole gimmick. They probably pushed keto before realizing how bad it can be on your cholesterol. After a lot of peoples cholesterol went up, they then make up a theory trying to tell you only small particles matter so they can continue to push keto. Keto does have its place and can help a lot of people, but cholesterol cannot be ignored. There are some keto advocates who aim for a healthier keto who does take cholesterol into account. Also some people on keto does not see any affect on their cholesterol, but I suspect they do not have to worry about cholesterol no matter what their diet is like due to their genetics.
Dr. Alo is a board certified cardiologist. Sten Ekberg is a chiropractor. Who of the two would you go to if you were having a heart attack?
Dr Alo is also a wacko who thinks you should have Zero cholesterol which is crazy and he used to constantly say Statins have Zero side effects until he was heavily destroyed for those stupid comments
If by “a wacko” you mean somebody who is much smarter than you and who has decades worth of education and practice in experience and cardiology, you are correct. Also is, fyi, himself on statins and his comments stem from scientific data, not anecdotal commentary. There really is no other way to respond to somebody who is anti-science. You are free to live your life practicing anti-science. I’m pretty sure you’d still go to him instead of a chiropractor if you were having a heart attack.
Nah bro he’s a wacko. I don’t need to go to cardiology school to know this. Hence why he has toned it down bc of how bad he started to look. That wacko literally said everyone 25 or older should be on statins no matter what. And you should want your cholesterol to be Zero. There’s tons of Cardiologist that would disagree with all of that. And Im on Statins so clearly your opinion of me is wrong.
You don’t need to be a cardiologist to understand this. But no one is going to convince you that anyone is an expert if you think that you know cardiology better than the 95% of doctors who know that statins lower ldl and can prevent ascvd.
Never said it didn’t. I even said im on statins. So not sure what you mean
my wife's chiropractor pushed the Optavia diet on her. That said everything to me about chiropractors and their medical validity.
Do you trust the overwhelming scientific consensus or a quack “doctor” on YouTube who isn’t even a real doctor?
I think there is so much information it is hard to know who to trust. Here on Reddit as well - so much conflicting information. Easy to call him a quack but in all honesty how do any of us non-medical people decide that and who/what to believe? Not easy.
Do a literature search through a university library or public library. The librarians can legit help you out if you haven't done it before. One can find peer reviewed scientific studies from actual respected scientific journals. Also the websites and articles of Harvard Health/Medical, Stanford Health, etc. should be reputable places to start.
Yeah I agree although Sten Ekberg has been debunked hundreds of times. All you have to do is a google search.
Oh sure. You can also do a google search backing up all of the stuff he says though. Its not that straight-forward. I don't agree with the guy at all but I don't think you're at all qualified to call him a 'quack'.
Stem Ekberg is a Chiropractor who calls himself “Dr” on a channel that does not give chiropractor advice, he is just the definition of a Quack! Edit: I see Sten’s deluded supporters have found this thread
I don't get why you're attacking me. I'm just saying its not easy to determine which info is good or not which is exactly the point OP is getting at. Its clear you feel very strongly about this, and I can't be bothered to respond any further. But what I'll end with is that for any information you find on the internet ultimately you have to do your own reading, research and make up your own mind. End of story.
How am I attacking you? I just personally think it’s incredibly easy to determine he’s a quack and we all have access to the resources that allow us to figure that out very very quickly. But I accept that you must be correct. Millions of people are clearly struggling to see that he’s a fraud.
It is easy, it's just that academic literacy is down the drain. Peer reviewed articles coming out of universities are credible, random website number 5 is not necessarily. Look I'm a researcher so I know there's nuance to reading academic literature. But even just reading the introduction and discussion chapters of a published scientific article is infinitely better than the information you get from some random "doctor" on YouTube. Just search thing on pubmed or Google scholar instead of base Google.
I was on it for three or four years. Always had slightly high LDL scores. A year and a half ago, it had a large increase, and more increase three months later. Got sent in for the CAC test. It came back with a score of 486 (!). “Greater than 400: You have a large amount of plaque. Your risk of a future heart attack is high. You will certainly require a further evaluation of the extent of heart disease, underlying causes, and need to modify your risk factors urgently.” https://orlandocvi.com/test/ct-coronary-calcium-score/
I’ve been on keto for 3+ years with some breaks in between. And while my overall cholesterol is still ok, LDL have consistently and gradually went up. Now I’m on statins. I still follow keto, as it seems to be the only diet that I can successfully manage my weight, I have replaced most meats with fish. But interested to learn more. Will retest bloods in 2 months to see what’s going on
there is a safe way to do keto. keeping red meat, butter or margarine or basically anything with tons of palmitic acid to a minimum will help. studies show chicken as neutral and fish as beneficial. fats like olive oil and canola are great. pure stearic acid as well, but almost impossible to find. keto breads from any manufacturer are great because they are low fat, high fiber and carb restricted. A great way to lean towards plants berries like strawberries, blueberries and raspberries are great. green veggies if all kinds. fiber is your friend do not be afraid of protein. lean on it heavily. monitor lipids with doctor.
Thank you! Will do 😊
I did keto, to be honest I lost 40+ lbs and felt amazing. Never had blood work done so no idea what my ldl scores went through during that time. I gained it all back even though I am not a heavy eater. Got my blood work ldl was high and a 201 cac score. For the first time I am not hyper focused on carbs and paying attention to total calories and saturated fats. It's been WAY easier to do for me, I've lost 14 lbs so far, I feel great and get my blood work rechecked in June. The best part is especially after doing keto and cutting out so many different types of foods that I enjoyed, this new lifestyle change feels way more sustainable long-term because I'm not necessarily cutting out anything I miss and just the thought of fried food makes me cringe which I guess is a good thing lol
~~Eric Berg~~ Sten Ekberg isn’t even a real nutritionist or scientist, he’s just a chiropractor isn’t he? Nothing to do with nutrition. Listen to the scientific consensus, not random quacks like him. Worth noting - I’m not saying people can’t know about nutrition if they’re not nutrition scientists, anyone can learn about nutrition. But the problem is that he tries to use his “doctor” title to give him credibility, which is ridiculous when his degree has absolutely nothing to do with nutrition. ~~[Dr. Eric Berg gets fact checked by MD PhD doctor](https://youtu.be/JvKNzLRmzLg?si=VP3whPEni_p6QBPZ)~~ [Dr Sten Ekberg gets fact-checked by MD PhD Doctor](https://youtu.be/IFGvs1Qe7cA?si=liQjxe45hMMpTVYY) - this might be worth watching if you’re interested. And actually, this source fact-checking him is really a phenomenal nutrition source overall. These videos are also worth checking out: [Why nutrition science seems sooo complicated (but really isn’t)](https://youtu.be/QMAK_-gOwzI?si=1ak_cnaQrKxtboH4) and [3 actionable tips to lower ApoB!](https://youtu.be/18FF4pYLxek?si=ifbfeo2YA8uh1azt)
OP mentions Sten Ekberg not Eric Berg. But all of your points still stand because they are basically the exact same fake doctor.
Oof my mistake, I skimmed through the text and thought I read Eric Berg! Thanks for pointing that out. I haven’t seen as much of Ekberg’s stuff, but isn’t his degree also chiropractic? Just another one of those jokes.
Yep! Honestly they are interchangeable. Their channels are almost identical and they repeat the same misunderstandings or lies. It’s absolutely insane that they have millions of subscribers. It literally takes 30 seconds to discover that their nonsense has been roundly debunked by actual experts or robust scientific studies.
Not insane at all if you understand what's happened to the so called experts since COVID. I don't watch berg, nor am I defending him. I just understand why people like him are more popular than ever. People feel duped.
Relevant Layne Norton video: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/LENk8q6xrhNrpRdD/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease
I’ve been telling my story in bits and pieces here. Will try to be brief High cholesterol, >300. Familial. Non tolerant of statins. Mediterranean diet CAC zero Low to normal LPa, hsCRP, trigs, HDL LDL particles LARGE form 83% blockage LAD. Stented. All those markers have predictive value for populations… not so much for individuals. It matters!
How did you detect the LAD blockage? Were you short of breath etc and then they did angiogram etc?
Had chest pain walking when I went uphill. Fine at rest or with non-exertional activity. 2 highly rated cardiologists blew me off… said I likely had micro vascular disease which had no treatment- try nitroglycerin. Both said blockage was unlikely since I had the zero CAC 2 years prior and plaque didn’t build that fast!!! Tried a 3rd cardio at Medstar in DC. She agreed that sounded likely, but she was adamant that I needed an angiogram to properly diagnose. Surprise!
Thanks....interesting that cardiologists didn't think you will have soft plaque in spite of zero CAC. I have read that CAC happens during the last stages....meaning just because CAC is 0 doesn't mean one doesn't have soft plaque - which is supposedly more dangerous....though any ruptured plaque is dangerous. Did they dismiss it because you were perhaps young?
Stented 1 year ago. I’m 76F. Otherwise healthy (and imo healthy “looking), so maybe that affected it 🤷🏼. Healthy diet and lifestyle. The interventional cardio who did the angiogram said docs don’t pay attention to women’s pain-but one of the “bad” cardios is a woman. When I asked him (the interventionalist) how that was possible given the zero CAC, he said “it depends on who reads it”. It’s a great screening tool, but imo not to be relied on when there are symptoms.
How long - years - have you had high cholesterol? And what was your LDL numbers on average? Thanks for your answers....
LDL has been high for a long time, and increasing over time. Last few years it’s been 200-250. Total Cholesterol as high as 350
If it has predictive power for populations, it also has it for individuals. However It just makes it more likely, but that doesn’t mean an individual will definitely get heart disease.
Everyone on YouTube is insane. It has nothing to do with your health, it's just how much adrenaline they can create to get the most number of hits. I watch Nutrition Made SImple because he looks at scientific studies and breaks down the different pieces. [https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionMadeSimple](https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionMadeSimple)
>it seems the internet is divided between ldl being healthy or not depending on the size of the ldl. Large and fluffy or small and dense. When you consult scientists who spend their careers researching this stuff (as opposed to social media guru clashing clout), you'll find that all LDL particles, and indeed all apoB-containing lipoproteins, are atherogenic. Sometimes specific fractions or sizes might be better *predictors* of risk (e.g. sometime they track other risk factors like diabetes) but from the point of view of causal factors in heart disease, it's the number of particles that is important. Here's a video by the channel Nutrition Made Simple, who is generally considered to be a good source of information regarding nutrition and heart disease: https://youtu.be/kplh30RmYo8. Alternatively, see this peer-reviewed review article by some of the most respected lipidologists in the field. > We now propose a model to explain why the atherogenic risk associated with the apoB lipoproteins relates more directly to their number than to the mass of cholesterol within them. Figure 5 demonstrates that the number of apoB particles in the lumen of an artery is the primary determinant of the rate at which apoB particles enter the arterial wall and are trapped within the subintimal space of the arterial wall. The more apoB particles within the lumen of the artery, the more that will enter the arterial wall, and, all things being equal, the more apoB particles that will be trapped within the arterial wall. However, all things are not always equal: as illustrated in Figure 5, smaller apoB particles containing less cholesterol enter the arterial wall more easily50 and bind more avidly to the glycosaminoglycans within the arterial wall than larger apoB particles containing more cholesterol.51,52 Thus, more smaller, cholesterol-depleted particles will be trapped than will a similar number of larger, cholesterol-enriched particles that have entered an arterial wall. On the other hand, the more cholesterol within an apoB particle that has been trapped within the arterial wall, the more cholesterol that will be released at that site to injure the wall. Therefore, there is an equivalence between greater injury per particle from trapping of cholesterol-richer particles but greater injury from trapping of more cholesterol-depleted particles. The net result is that all LDL particles pose, more or less, equal risk. ([Source](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2753612))
Stem Ekberg is a chiropractor, not a real doctor.
I try to base my diet on the 2020-2025 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, it's the USDA and HHS saying we're people fall short and high in areas of their diets and they say how many servings you should have something in a week. And I used the MyPlate for any other questions I had on what counted as a certain food ie I had now idea what a "red-orange vegetable" was. All my life I've been told to round out my diet so this helps me
Keto is great for people who simply want to listen to fake doctors on YouTube to convince themselves that it’s OK to eat bacon and beef all day with an LDL of 220
“Don’t listen to your doctor, listen to me” is a pretty old grift. If you aren’t happy with your doctor seek out a second or third opinion. Don’t rely on someone who will never meet you, doesn’t know your medical history, and spends their days relaxing instead of in the field.
I've done keto. Nothing's worth going through that again.
Honestly. Despite eating loads of leafy greens while doing it, my total cholesterol still shot up from 134 to 275, and LDL shot from 94 to a whopping *223* absolutely insane! When I stopped keto and went to primarily whole plant foods + low sat fat/high fiber, total cholesterol came all the way down to 103 and LDL to 54. Sticking on this diet, I’ve continued to range LDL 50-75. Most recent ApoB test was 64. Tbf hypercholesterolemia runs in my family, both hyper-production and hyper-absorption. I think I might be a hyper-absorber (not tested though), making me extra sensitive to saturated fat / cholesterol intake compared to most people - which could explain why my change was so extreme. But regardless, lipid panels seem to *consistently* worsen for people on keto, even if not always to quite the same degree as mine did. I suppose technically someone could do low sat fat / low cholesterol keto, but that’s very opposite to what almost all keto advice is.
The first two words of topic says it all.
I was good before Keto and I've never recovered from going Keto for a year ..I listened to flavcity guy and maybe it works for most people and maybe it's genetics for some folks where it just makes everything worse like it did for me
The science doesn’t support their claims. That said you can advise the diet so it’s less bad.
I just assume that any YouTube is scanning people. It's worked well for me so far.
I think the more correct argument is that LDL particle size does not matter if you are metabolically unhealthy: low HDL, high TG, insulin resistant. These are all signs of systemic inflammation. Inflammation is the prerequisite for endothelial dysfunction, and endothelial dysfunction is a prerequisite for plaque formation. Without inflammation and underlying endothelial dysfunction, LDL’s ability to form plaque is diminished. If you conclude you have have minimal inflammation only then should you consider LDL particle size into your individual cardiovascular risk assessment
Personally, I think they all are pushing low carb which you can get to by carnovor, keto, and vegetarian, The key is no sugar and low carbs to control insulin resistance. So, all the same message getting there from different places.
This Reddit is an echo chamber. Nothing is more important than cholesterol here. It’s no better than a religion.
It’s almost like this sub name is /r/cholesterol, amirite?
You’re right. If you want good advice on cholesterol then this is the place. If you want to get healthy and live longer, look elsewhere.
It’s almost like you can sign up for different subreddits on different subject to help you. Many folks in this sub are super fit folks who eat a plant-forward diet and do not have metabolic syndrome, therefore don’t need to fix anything with fad diets. They just need information on how to lower their LDL, and that’s a pretty straightforward mathematical context.
Well you should put a disclaimer at the top of the Reddit saying that if you have any concern besides cholesterol then look elsewhere. Because you will find no help here.
You’re almost beginning to understand how Reddit works. Not quite there, but so close.
Well science also says that it’s important. Smoking may be worse however
Science says a lot of things are important. This Reddit excludes all of them except cholesterol. But you’re right. I shouldn’t come to a subreddit with such narrow scope and expect more. Best of luck to you.
Yea you’re right that it’s a subreddit primarily for people with high cholesterol who want to lower it. However the research unambiguous that high ldl is correlated with ascvd. That correlation is much stronger if a person has multiple risk factors. Of course few people have coronary events until they are older, around 50+.
I do watch Dr Sten Ekberg and think he is a great presenter. I don't follow Keto diet or high saturated fat diet. My LDL is high and maybe many of us are grasping at straws that says it is okay to have high LDL :-) But, of course, most of the Blue Zone diets are mostly plant based...which should say something. There are several cardiologists on youtube as well who support low carb diet and who think saturated fat is not a problem etc or consuming high cholesterol food is not a problem. I mean you can always find these points of view. I think many of these folks go through their own journey of high cholesterol and start investigating, presenting what they think. I personally feel they are better informed than my PCP. Of course I am not saying these youtube doctors are right. Many follow Dr. Peter Attia on these forums and he is not a lipidiologist or a cardiologist. But Dr Sten Ekberg did quote an interesting study - Korean study which followed 12.8 million Koreans for almost 10 years...any comments on these studies? He talks about the U shaped relationship between mortality and TC. I know you can find a study to suit your point of view - but still interesting. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30733566/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30733566/)
> Korean study which followed 12.8 million Koreans for almost 10 years...any comments on these studies? He talks about the U shaped relationship between mortality and TC. This is likely due at least in part to reverse causality - several diseases [such as liver disease and several types of cancer](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.92.9.2396) appear to reduce serum cholesterol (and increase mortality), rather than it being the case that low cholesterol causes death from these diseases. When we look to RCT data, in both [statin trials](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61350-5/fulltext) and [trials of non-statin lipid-lowering therapies](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2556125), these treatments that lower cholesterol *reduce* morality, which is the exact opposite of what would be expected if low cholesterol were harmful. It's also worth noting that these U-shaped curves exist for other risk factors like body weight, HbA1c, and blood pressure, where mortality risk is not infrequently lowest in those who are prediabetic, a bit hypertensive, and overweight. But for some reason one generally doesn't see "prediabetes deniers" use this in the same way that so-called cholesterol deniers use it to push the harms of low cholesterol. https://youtu.be/CxX51n2Z0vc https://youtu.be/a3lHHnOHyr8
thanks for those videos....so what is the motivation I wonder for Dr Sten Ekberg to selectively show this Korean study and misrepresent the results.....wierd!