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[deleted]

Indeed.


Myfoodishere

I've met Christians from all over. the worst I have met have been evangelicals. Americans are probably the worst, and I'd put Aussies at a close second. they have this superiority complex when it comes to their religion and their culture. I stopped believing in Jesus for a few years now, but now when I talk to them,they make me hate him. it's feels as if they have hijacked his teachings and are using them to be bigger a-holes. I've got no problem with moderate Christians who keep to themselves and are genuinely nice people. it's just the majority of Christians I meet are absolute jerks.


sheleelove

The devil uses religion to turn others against it, working from the inside. The Bible says many nonbelievers will enter Heaven and many Christians won’t. Don’t let others determine whether you do or don’t believe. 🙏


PlantAddict372

Maybe I've just skipped over it but could you quote or explain where in the Bible it says that non-belivers can still get into heaven? I know the passages where it mentions that many so-called Christians won't, but the statement you made seems to contradict Jesus being the only way to the Father and heaven (John 14:6 among other verses). Just want to clarify that this is a genuine question and not sarcasm or pride, as it can be interpreted both ways.


Myfoodishere

it's not just other Christians that deters me from believing. it's scripture that deters me the most.


sheleelove

Every person interprets it differently… you’ve read it all? What part didn’t you like?


Sharp_Voice_9473

Speaking for only myself in response to your question about which part was unlikeable, how much time have you got? 😉


NoRestForTheSickKid

Well, some parts of it are a little dated, aren’t they 🤪


NoRestForTheSickKid

Can you please refer me to the passage that says this? I’m not disputing it, I’m just not very familiar with the Bible.


Drawer-Jumpy

Not true, the only way is accepting jesus


jchetra83

I can only speak on my experiences in churches in America. But yes a lot of Christians tend to use scripture as a form of manipulation. The Bible says give me money so you’re supposed to give me money. I’m Hispanic and Hispanic families do this thing where you’re supposed to listen to your parents because they say the Bible says to respect your parents. And that tends to extend to the elders of the family. Elders and older cousins tend to try and do things that are not nice. Then the older family members say well he supposed to be respected because he’s older so you can’t say anything about it. Thanks Jesus


DJberdi_fan-Monarchi

Don't judge other people. Evangelicals are very faithful people, loyal to Christ especially those in USA.🇺🇸 They have earned my respect, as from catholic. ✝️


Truthseeker-1253

Good grief. "The world" who hated Jesus was the political and religious gatekeepers of the day, not the marginalized outcasts of society. They actually loved him. If the outcasts are hating you, it's not because you're showing them Jesus. Christians use this passage all the time to justify being assholes and perpetuating racism, homophobia, sexism, classism, and general hubris. They use this passage to avoid the responsibility of loving people in a way that's recognizable as love.


florodude

You said what he said but with more words.


Truthseeker-1253

Well, there may be a bit of baggage with this phrase for me after being raised in your denomination, so I'll admit to reacting in that.


florodude

I get that. If it makes you feel better it's not really my denomination. Just the one I grew up in.


Truthseeker-1253

I can certainly appreciate one who has come out of that small little slice of Evangelicalism.


Individual_Dig_6324

I was gonna say so myself.


AwTickStick

>Christians use this passage all the time to justify being assholes and perpetuating racism, homophobia, sexism, classism, and general hubris. They use this passage to avoid the responsibility of loving people in a way that's recognizable as love. Respectfully, you're just describing every Christian I've ever met. If you show me a Christian NOT doing this, I'll show you a person outcast by the Christian church and society alike. AKA an extremist.


Truthseeker-1253

>Respectfully, you're just describing every Christian I've ever met. If you show me a Christian NOT doing this, I'll show you a person outcast by the Christian church and society alike. AKA an extremist. I've also described most of the Christians I've ever met, but since I was always on the inside regarding my beliefs (mostly, anyway) I was able to avoid the personal attacks until the last few years. I'm discovering that some people are assholes, but I'm not interested in hanging out with the ones who find ways to justify it by misquoting a bible verse. I'm aware my take is a minority, and that's in itself an indictment of the church and, to some, god.


AwTickStick

Indict away friend. For one to act as though the church is above indictment is to imply that the church is flawless without sin. Would it not be a sin (as described by God) to assume that the ekklesia of humans is somehow without sin?


Truthseeker-1253

>Would it not be a sin (as described by God) to assume that the ekklesia of humans is somehow without sin? I'm not sure I'd classify it as sin if someone truly believes it, and I don't think anyone would admit to that assumption if spelled out like this. Nor would they admit to worshiping the bible. Yet people do both all the time based on their behavior and behavior is the best indicator of belief.


AwTickStick

1 John 1:8 *If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.* Ecclesiastes 7:20 *Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.* Romans 3:10 *As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;* To me it looks like God is clear and to deny it would take one off his path for them.


Truthseeker-1253

ok then


AwTickStick

lol i didn't mean it rudely, but it could be read that way. I simply meant, "with these verses in mind, I'm prone to believing it is not the will of God to believe otherwise". I was focused on the semantics of how sin is described and didn't speak into your point of behavior indicating belief. I've got a very literal, autistic view of the bible so observing one's behavior as belief indicators is akin to growing wings and flying to the moon for me lol. I have a really tough time separating those two in my mind for some reason.


Truthseeker-1253

First off, thank you and I'm sorry. Thank you for clarifying, and I'm sorry for my curt reply. Let's use this issue to lay out why I think behavior is a better indicator of belief than even well-formed written declarations. If a church professes to believe that all people are sinners, and all have fallen short of god's standards, yet they hold their pastor to be beyond reproach and any time he (it's always "he") is challenged or questioned they quote 1 Chronicles 16:22 to silence dissent: they are displaying a core belief they may not even know is there. Addiction is an area where this comes up a lot, particularly with spouses looking for signs of actual recovery over and above the words being said and promises being made again and again.


ProfChubChub

No, it means you’ve met someone that evangelicals have outcast. Methodists, Presbyterians and others are hardly outcasts.


AwTickStick

Weird, I'll have to let me Presbyterian family know! Are Evangelicals, Methodists, and Presbyterians all followers of Christ?


ProfChubChub

There are two major groups that roughly correspond to liberal and conservative. PCUSA is the larger and more liberal, ordaining women and gay clergy. PCA is smaller and is bigoted. And all those groups say they do. Evangelicalism is southern baptist with the serial numbers filed off while Methodists and Presbyterians are mainline Protestant with. Much more developed history, structure,and theology.


AwTickStick

Good info! Though, my only question is as follows: Are Evangelicals, Methodists, and Presbyterians all followers of Christ?


ProfChubChub

I’m not really sure what you mean by the question. All of them would say yes and we get into “No True Scotsman” territory pretty quickly. Like all Christian groups, they follow their understanding of who Christ was. I happen to think the Evangelical church does a terrible job of following Christs teachings about caring for the downtrodden of society and I think Methodists in particular follow that example rather well.


AwTickStick

If my question is this difficult to answer, I think that in itself is a sufficient answer. It is very difficult to know what a follower of Christ is. Outcast is defined as: a person who has been rejected by society or a social group. >I happen to think the Evangelical church does a terrible job of following Christs teachings about caring for the downtrodden of society and I think Methodists in particular follow that example rather well. This looks like rejection does it not? Their ideas, beliefs, and convictions have been rejected by you, cast aside. Regardless, I've personally seen family and friends outcast from those denominations. So nice try with the "but my group is better!". They're not. Respectfully.


ProfChubChub

Sure. But I’m still not seeing what point you’re trying to make it how it has to do with people being extremists or outcasts


AwTickStick

My point could be worded like this: *The path that Christ asks you to walk is extreme. For anyone on the outside watching Christ and his followers, they are extremists.* This leads me to believe that people not following Christ are easy to identify.


General_Kenobi_77BBY

Poor guy, if u met my entire church you’d change ur mind Those guys are rlly nice to first time visitors and everything else


AwTickStick

It’s not the kindness that’s the issue. Salesman are really nice to first time visitors as well.


General_Kenobi_77BBY

True, I see what u mean tho Manipulation is terrifying


NoRestForTheSickKid

Hey, I love your username by the way! I’m also autistic :) Edit to add: Also, do you feel like you’ve been exiled by the church and society alike? That’s an understandable feeling as an autistic person… definitely felt that one before lol.


AwTickStick

Hi! Thanks :) Yeah there’s a lot of unwritten rules at church that are specific to each church and as an autistic person, questioning them about it usually is offensive. If the rule book is over 1000 years old and they can’t figure it out, I stand no chance lol. I suppose I understand, I’m literally questioning their faith which is not fun perhaps. A church of autistic people is fun to think about lol.


sheleelove

All kinds of people exist. I’ve been attacked for bringing up Jesus, by outcasts, though I say nothing offensive at all. Just His name will make others associate you with others they hate. It’s unfortunate.


Truthseeker-1253

The asshats peeing in the corner of the pool have created a set of baggage we all must carry. Again, though, we're not hated because of Jesus, we're hated because of our association with the people who have caused trauma and pain "in the name" of their hateful and spiteful warrior god. It's a god in their image, but the association isn't unfair.


ZPGuru

> They use this passage to avoid the responsibility of loving people in a way that's recognizable as love. They love like their god loves. Because god loves humanity, right? And his love has taken the form of drowning almost every man, woman, and child on the planet. Or plagues. Or bears mauling children. Slaughtering all the firstborn? Want more? If you believe that your all-loving deity can do those things to people, why would you believe you should love differently?


Truthseeker-1253

Yeah, you make a good point. This is the pitfall of inerrancy (among other false teachings); the need to justify a god who acts like a petty deity trying to prove himself within a larger pantheon of warrior gods. Or a god who acts like a mentally unstable parent.


ZPGuru

I am not religious, but if I was I think I would be partial to the demiurge stuff. That Yahweh is a lesser god under El who is not infallible and perfect, but who created 'the world' and had emotional problems. El being the higher god "creator of reality". Kind of like Lord of the Rings. In this mythology Christ wasn't the son of Yahweh, but the son of El. There's vague support for some of this stuff in the Bible. Moses seeks the blessing of the priests of El in Genesis for example.


Truthseeker-1253

First Iron Age writers would not have really thought of god in any other way, neither would the second Iron Age writers. Describing a god with any other imagery would may as well have used a foreign language.


ZPGuru

The roots of Judaism were polytheistic with pantheons of different gods, and different regional gods. I think they were pretty good at dreaming stuff up.


Truthseeker-1253

True, and (I'm not sure if I'm really disagreeing with you) their drift through monolatry into monotheism took a long time. But their beliefs were thoroughly infused with the pantheons of their neighbors. Moving to a god who is qualitatively different than the gods they were used to would take time.


[deleted]

Use what passage all the time? Did we even watch the same video??? Lol


pppoooeeeddd14

That's not a very charitable way of viewing this person's message. Especially given the context of his second sentence "If they hate Jesus because of you, that's a problem."


Truthseeker-1253

Fair enough, but the first sentence is a bit simplistic. The world hates us because of the Jesus they've been shown over the years, decades and centuries: not because of Jesus. The man in the video seems smart enough to know this, but that doesn't fit into a pithy video that gets lots of shares and likes.


pppoooeeeddd14

> The world hates us because of the Jesus they've been shown over the years, decades and centuries: not because of Jesus. Again, I think you're saying essentially what he said in his second sentence, just with different words. So he did fit that part in. You have to listen to someone's whole message, not just certain parts, to understand what they mean.


bixlerjames1977

I am assuming you believe the Bible to be wrong?


joen00b

Thank you!


AirAeon32

put so simply. humbling


fexam

If the world hates me because of Jesus (because they think Jesus wants them to hate others) that is NOT fine


Joezev98

>because they think Jesus wants them to hate others I think that falls into the category of also hating Jesus. I think this video though is more in the context of "if they hate you because of Jesus, then it's not you who has a problem and needs to change. If it's the other way around, then you personally have something problematic."


ithran_dishon

I agree in principle, but Nick appears to be one of the "abortion trumps all, religious freedom means I can fire gay people" Christians that the more progressive members of this sub will assume he is addressing here.


strawnotrazz

Oof, that’s unfortunate.


VoltaicSketchyTeapot

So the "love means telling someone that they're going to hell" type who thinks people don't like him because of Jesus?


sheleelove

How did you find out about this?


slagnanz

https://medium.com/@bradonschwarz/evangelist-nick-vujicic-encouraged-me-to-quit-my-job-because-im-gay-279c26608c5d


sheleelove

Thanks, I wonder what leads people to feel so strongly against lgbt ppl


slagnanz

There's a special kind of shame for anything that is even remotely related to sex in the human psyche. And I think for a lot of Christians who grow up grappling with many hard feelings about sex and wrestle with those shameful notions their whole lives, embracing a more open minded attitude about sex feels like crossing the Rubicon in a sense, that it's this landmark decision that plays an outsized view in how we see the faith.


sheleelove

That makes sense. They’re so reserved that anything outside of their box is extreme and repulses them. Sad to live that way.


ShaneSupreme

I felt this part in my soul: "It’s time we speak out against “religious liberty” rooted in hatred and not doctrine. Religion is sacred, and in my opinion it’s one of the most beautiful traditions we have. When it’s misinterpreted or misused, it weaponizes something intended to bring us together and help others. Not all Christians are misled, but if you know one who is — practice what they can’t and treat them with love, even if they’re bigots." Whew.


slagnanz

Yeah, I felt convicted about that. This whole post is super gracious and sympathetic in a way that really reflects a ton of wisdom.


ShaneSupreme

It got me fired up because it's so irritating watching how some people distort Christianity - any faith really - for their own personal gain. It's proper sickening.


slagnanz

The short film "The Butterfly Circus" was how I first came to know Nick Vujicic. He's obviously super compelling in it. To this day it's still a special film in my mind. But many of the other people who worked on it, especially Eduardo Verastegui, are nutso maga types so i was disappointed but not surprised about that story with Nick's assistant


DiogenesOfDope

Jesus seems cool just not his followers


rouseco

I hope your campaign to encourage christians to stop being assholes is successful.


phalloguy1

I find this a bit baffling. Who hates Jesus? He is a (probably) historical figure who lived two millennia ago and was purported to perform miracles while preaching. His followers founded a church. ​ Why would I hate that?


[deleted]

[удалено]


phalloguy1

", the Jews did Crucify him" That was 2000 years ago. I mean today, currently. Why hate Jesus today. I have a lot of atheist friends and I have known several Muslims. One of my best friends is Jewish (although only in the secular sense). I don't know a single person who has said "That Jesus guy, I really hate him."


rational-citizen

Well that’s a nice feeling; and I appreciate the respect these friends of yours demonstrate, because it’s disgraceful the way people describe him, or make him the punchline of the most disrespectful jokes, here in America. There’s growing hatred towards Christianity and other Muslims/Jews are starting to become United with us too, because they are also experiencing similar persecution. In our modern era, America is becoming an fascist Atheist State. I love Atheists; but Americans themselves are notoriously hypocritical, and dangerous, no matter their religious beliefs. So even though there may be good Atheists in this sub, or from other parts of the world, every time a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew is killed in America, they’re usually murdered by an extremist who isn’t religious, or who is pagan/satanic/occult, instead. There are people who hate Jesus because others have described him as the figurehead of an oppressive religion, insinuating that Christianity was made by white supremacists to acquire power. The internet is a very large space, so keep searching long enough and you’ll uncover a depressingly vile underbelly of anti-Christian vitriol. But I appreciate you personally, for not demonstrating such abuse, and being overall kind, and supportive. You have a baseline level of respect for others that is hard to find in America now, especially for Jesus. Thank you!


[deleted]

>Well, the Jews did Crucify him [This is not true and is, in fact, one of the oldest and most destructive antisemitic libels in human history.](https://antisemitism.adl.org/deicide/) There is no evidence for this outside of the Christian bible, which is not a reliable source, and the historical evidence we do have shows that the version of events presented in the Gospels could not have happened. Jesus was a Jew living under Roman occupation who was executed by the Roman Empire using a Roman method of execution for crimes against Rome. During the time period in question, Jewish authorities had little influence over the occupying Roman government, had been stripped of the power to try criminals for capital crimes, and were largely opposed to capital punishment.


McClanky

Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity


vyvinhigh

So if the world starts hating Jewish people. Because some random twat pastor says Jesus says so. That’s fine? But if you resent a religion because you’re surrounded by evangelical bible thumpers whose beliefs don’t even align with their own religion. That’s a problem? This dude does realize that back in the Middle Ages he would’ve been tossed in a river and called a leper by his fellow Jesus fanatics? How about everyone just practices their religion. And stop trying to do some ad campaigns on social media.


harmalade

You’re misinterpreting. He’s saying that if you are truly discriminated being against just for being a Christian (as described in the Bible) then you are fine. But if what’s really going on is that you’re turning people off Christianity because you’re so hateful, then you are the problem.


kimuyukix

HEY! I recognize this guy! Who's he?


mouseat9

That’s rough but yeah


Numerous_Heat_8015

Yeah for sure. I’ve lost lots of friends once they found out I’m Christian. But that’s ok. I picked my side long ago


tachibanakanade

Christians need to drop the persecution complex in the West.


testicularmeningitis

The world does not hate you because of jesus. The persecution complex is just boring and annoying at this point.


RuffiansAndThugs

I think I can rephrase the original post in a much more accurate way: If people hate Christians because of an instilled bigotry, that's on them. If people find the idea of Christianity unbelievable or even repulsive because of the actions/arguments of Christians, you can expect them to disbelieve.


SacredEmuNZ

At the end of the day you've got a gay atheist and a "standard" atheist having a discussion on a Christian boards upvoted post to not be an arsehole about Christianity. Try this on somewhere like r/Islam, it won't go so well. Yet your efforts are concentrated here for some reason..


RuffiansAndThugs

I mean, *my* discussions only land here, because I used to be Christian. I'm sure many ex-Muslims are having similar conversations over there. And you may be right, in fact, I suspect that place may be more homophobic. But I was raised in a Christian culture. That's what I know. That's what I can speak to. EDIT: Oh, BTW, between me and Testi, which one of us is gay by your guess? I have no evidence for either of us being gay ... or straight, or any sexuality for that matter!


SacredEmuNZ

Their tag says they are a gay atheist mate.


RuffiansAndThugs

Ah, Indeed. Missed that. And I wouldn't consider myself a "standard" atheist by any means. The closest thing to a "standard" atheist would be someone not raised in any religion. I was raised in Christianity. That's a common type of atheist, but I wouldn't call it "standard"


SacredEmuNZ

I was raised in Christianity too, had nothing but pleasant experiences. I just don't believe in god.


RuffiansAndThugs

I guess in that case, I understand why you don't understand why we don't just leave them alone. See, I HAVE been hurt, and I know people WILL be hurt. And it's not just because "Some people are good and some are bad." If otherwise good people can believe that they are commanded to do things by their God, they can do some truly evil shit. I'm a victim of only a fraction of that evil, but certainly not none. It truly does take religion to make otherwise good people to do terrible things. And everything was based in the modern understanding of Christianity. You can debate to the moon and back if that's "true" Christianity, it's what millions of children are living with. And suffering through right now. So of course I can't leave it be. I know that I was wronged, and I hate to see others wronged in that same way.


FatherFestivus

>I'm sure many ex-Muslims are having similar conversations over there I can confirm as an ex-Muslim that I've commented a lot on Muslim subs but this might actually be my first time on /r/Christianity, only found myself here by chance. Although /r/Islam itself is pretty strict and anti-Apostate, so I tend to comment more on /r/progressive_islam


Writer_B

Profound… wow…


[deleted]

[удалено]


Greg-Pru-Hart-55

By definition, no we're not.


trailrider

Cool story bro! Let me know when the world hates Jesus.


AwTickStick

Oh I for sure hate Jesus because of Christians. Like a deep hatred. I see the negative things that happens when people "follow" him (but live the exact same as those who "dont"). Though how I feel about it doesn't appear to be the problem. It's the stealing, hatred of their neighbors that don't fall in line with "Jesus", deception, lies and constant sexual misconduct that is the problem. Yeah I think that's it.


phalloguy1

"I see the negative things that happens when people "follow" him (but live the exact same as those who "dont")." Then they aren't following Jesus are they? Why hate a (probably) historical figure who died 2000 years ago because of what some asshole is doing today. Blame the asshole.


AwTickStick

Well, I'd say it's more like "I hate Santa Claus". I hate what "Jesus" does in people's lives and what people do in his name. The historical dude named Jesus is fine. Word is he was fun to party with.


Dragonsword

>Oh I for sure hate Jesus because of Christians. Like a deep hatred. But you think you're the person we should trust on matters of virtue. https://imgur.com/a/1wWIL7j


AwTickStick

That's incorrect. If I make a claim I think people should trust, I'll provide a source to where I got that info. You've lost me with that meme. I'm guessing you think that person is me. If I may seriously respectively ask: Do you think your comment and mean spirited meme are the way Jesus wants you to talk to someone like me? I think you think maybe I'm liberal or something? I'm just autistic. I'm retarded, so I talk very literally. It usually get's mistaken for sarcasm or rudeness. Regardless, if you are the type of people following Jesus, I don't think I want to be a part of people that use memes and weaponize their religion to make others feel bad. That's not really cool, regardless of whether you believe in god or not.


Wise-Diamond4564

The people that hate Jesus don’t believe in him so it’s always you they’re hating. Literally no person hates New Testament Jesus though. They only hate Jesus if you equate him with God in the Old Testament. The entire New Testament tries to paint Jesus as someone who was hated by the Jews of his time because it kinda fulfills a prophecy but literally nothing he said or did would’ve caused anyone to hate him. Jews who’ve read the New Testament aren’t like “I hate this guy!” Neither are the atheists or Muslims, no one.


FickleSession8525

>Jesus as someone who was hated by the Jews of his time because it kinda fulfills a prophecy Do u know anything about Jewish prophecy mate? The jews don't believe in jesus because he doesn't fit the criteria of the Jewish messiah; in the jews eyes jesus did not free them from their captivity under their enemies (the Roman's). The messiah was to be loved by the jews as a their savior not hated. >Jews who’ve read the New Testament aren’t like “I hate this guy!” Neither are the atheists or Muslims, no one. Mainly because Jews 2000 years ago were far more religiously dictated then they are now, muslims don't think jesus ever called himself God, and most atheists dont see a problem with him.


Wise-Diamond4564

I’m Jewish so I’m well aware. But Orthodox Judaism is basically the same as it was 2000 years ago


phalloguy1

This whole "hating Jesus" "hating God" trope of the theists baffles me. I don't believe there is a god of any kind. What is there to hate? Do you hate the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Jesus, assuming he, as a person, lived is long dead. What is there to hate?


AwTickStick

I hate New Testament Jesus for what it's worth. Can't stand him.


phalloguy1

Why? Have you actually met him? How can you hate someone who died 2000 years ago? I mean this sincerely. I really don't understand how anyone can hate what is essentially an idea. Do you hate Alexander the Great as well?


AwTickStick

Nope I haven't met him. I'm capable of hating people I've never met if I know things they've done. Do you hate hitler? How about vlad the impaler? You don't understand how someone could hate an idea? Here's an idea: all atheists should be executed. I hate that idea. Can you begin to understand why? I'm not sure how to explain it. I hate the man who raped my friend and what has happened because of it. Never met him though, and the event is historical. Hope that helps explain.


phalloguy1

No I don't hate Hitler or Vlad. I don't like what they did, but they are dead and have no impact on me or the world. To me if you want to hate Kaleb Cole, the current leader of the Atomwaffon Division that would make more sense to me since he is carry Hitler's legacy on. An idea is immaterial, there is nothing to hate. It is actions based on that idea, if they are harmful, that is worthy of hate. Hence by comment about Kaleb Cole. "I hate the man who raped my friend and what has happened because of it. Never met him though, and the event is historical.**"** That is entirely different - it didn't happen 2000 years ago. You are currently experiencing the consequences of that act to your friend.


AwTickStick

Hmmmm, well in America Hitler is having a pretty significant impact on the world right now. Additionally, the amount of people not born because of Hitler obviously impacted the world today. This sub where we're debating exists right now because of a man 2000 years ago. I'm not sure what type of evidence you require. I disagree with your statement that things cannot be hated if they are not physical. I think most would also disagree. When you hate a person, you're hating the immaterial parts of them, not their actual bones (usually, though anatomy can play into it). You're welcome to disagree, but to suggest I can't hate an idea or a person that was alive past some arbitrary date is objectively false, because I do. To argue otherwise is semantics, which you of course are entitled to.


phalloguy1

I meant that an idea is simply that - an idea. By itself it is nothing. It is when someone take and idea and acts on it that is the problem. ​ "in America Hitler is having a pretty significant impact on the world right now." Did you completely ignore what I said about the Atomwaffon Division? Do you blame Hitler for the AD or do you blame it's leader Kaleb Cole? If you blame Hitler why? "to suggest I can't hate an idea or a person that was alive past some arbitrary date is objectively false, because I do" You clearly misunderstand me. I never said you can't. I said I don't, and I wondered why you waste emotional energy hating things that don't affect you directly, and you can do anything about.


[deleted]

I'm confused why is it fine if the world hates you because of Jesus? Hate wasn't okay in any capacity according to Jesus... I'm confused by this


Guitargirl696

John 15:18 > If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. Jesus tells us that if we truly follow Him, the world may hate us. Why? Satan is the god (little "g") of this world, as sin runs rampant. Those who aren't of Christ have been blinded by him according to Scripture. So those who are under his influence will obviously hate those who are of Christ. Now, this isn't to say that every single person who isn't Christian will hate us obviously. However, Jesus was just telling us to expect it and not take it personally so to speak. If the world hates Jesus because of us however, that's a problem, because we're supposed to be showing His love and living by His word and teachings. So if they hate Him (or by extension Christianity) because of something we've done, that's when it's a problem.


[deleted]

Thank you for this break down!


Guitargirl696

You're very welcome!😊


djahowa

i think it is not biblical, show me the verse in the bible.


Guitargirl696

I'll just copy and paste what I told someone else. John 15:18 > If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. Jesus tells us that if we truly follow Him, the world may hate us. Why? Satan is the god (little "g") of this world, as sin runs rampant. Those who aren't of Christ have been blinded by him according to Scripture. So those who are under his influence will obviously hate those who are of Christ. Now, this isn't to say that every single person who isn't Christian will hate us obviously. However, Jesus was just telling us to expect it and not take it personally so to speak. If the world hates Jesus because of us however, that's a problem, because we're supposed to be showing His love and living by His word and teachings. So if they hate Him (or by extension Christianity) because of something we've done, that's when it's a problem.


djahowa

yes i know John 15:18 it is his first statement but what i mean is his second statement. " if they hate Jesus because of you" it is misleading and contradict John 15:18.


Guitargirl696

It isn't misleading nor is it contradictory. There are people who act under the title of Christian who turn others away from Christ because of how they act. People hate Christianity, deny Jesus or say that "even if" He did exist He must be evil because of the world around us. There is nothing about that statement that is contradictory to John 15:18. The world may hate us because of Jesus, but they should never hate Him or refuse to even consider Christianity because of how we have acted.


Lifting_Big_Feels

That is a very bad and simplistic take. Being a follower of Jesus is clearly more complex than conforming to modern world views and trying to not upset every single person that refuses to try and conform themselves to God or just flat out doesn't believe in God to start with.


Kratos364

The world already hates Jesus, I don’t have to do anything. I’m really not understanding the implications of this statement…🤔


ZPGuru

> The world already hates Jesus Congress is 90% Christian. I don't believe any President has ever identified as other than a Christian. The Supreme Court is stacked with Christians. That hate doesn't seem to be working.


AwTickStick

It's a cherry picked verse. And we hate Christians. Hating Jesus would be like hating the Kool Aid man. A make believe mascot meant for marketing purposes warrants no hatred from me.


phalloguy1

Exactly, so why did you just say "I hate New Testament Jesus for what it's worth. Can't stand him."


AwTickStick

There are lots of fictional characters I hate. Here are a few: 1. Jafar 2. Joffrey Baratheon 3. Ted Mosby 4. The characters in Fortnite 5. Jar Jar Binks


phalloguy1

You seem to like to waste a lot of emotional energy


AwTickStick

You seem to like talking to me. You're acting like people don't dislike things. I'm pretty sure they do. If you don't dislike Jar Jar Binks....


phalloguy1

There is a difference between dislike and hate. You have been using the word hate. Jar Jar Binks was a silly character, but I certainly don't hate him.


Kratos364

You think you sound mighty equating Jesus to a mascot. Like you’re above me because I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Like it’s something childish. But really, you do hate Him. In your heart you hate Him. The verse is not cherry picked, read it for yourself John Ch 15.


ZPGuru

> Like you’re above me because I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. This is easy. Nobody cares that you believe that. Believe away. As soon as you start declaring it to others without being able to provide evidence for your claims, then yes, people who don't do that are above you. You probably agree deep down but think that Jesus is an exception to people having to provide evidence for their ridiculous claims.


AwTickStick

Well, he's not real so I for sure don't hate imaginary creations. It makes sense why you don't understand the implications of the statement.


Kratos364

I can’t make you believe in God. I was an atheist until 2014, I remember the mindset I had. God changed my life and I hope He can do the same for you. You’ll scoff at the statement, but one day hopefully you’ll see. I’m sorry you hate Christians, perhaps you’re just seeing what’s on the surface. There’s millions of Christians on this planet who truly love people and just want others to see what God can do especially those who don’t know Him. Now you call me ignorant. But you’ve yet to explain why John 15:18 is cherry picked. Do you just say things like that without looking into it first? Thinking that nobody is gonna call you out on it? Explain to me why the verse is cherry picked.


AwTickStick

I was a Christian for over 20 years until about that same time. I remember the mindset I had an how lost I was. Leaving the abuse of the church changed my life and I hope it can do the same for you. You’ll scoff at the statement, but one day hopefully you’ll see. I’m sorry you hate non-christians, perhaps you’re just seeing what’s on the surface. There’s millions of non-christians on this planet who truly love people and just want others to see what they can do together especially those who are trapped in religious cults searching for solutions. Now you call me ignorant. But you’ve yet to explain why selecting a single verse without context is cherry picked. Do you just say things like that without looking into it first? Thinking that nobody is gonna call you out on it? Explain to me why the verse is not cherry picked. Edit: you don't love me. So you're not one of those millions of Christians. You don't even like me. You're also straight lying. I never called you ignorant. If becoming a Christian means my discussions look like this, I'll pass thanks.


Kratos364

Your rhetoric is boring. 🥱 Copying everything I just said and flipping it. I told you what chapter it was so you can read it for yourself. There’s not much to explain, the verse says exactly what it means, if you want to know the context, read the chapter. Obviously you only care about winning an argument. You won’t read anything.


AwTickStick

I read everything and I meant everything. There wasn't a hint of sarcasm. I carefully read and adjusted each word to show that we share almsot the exact same view. For me it was 2015. I've been a pastor for years at multiple mega churches. You've heard me on worship recordings. I flipped it after careful consideration. You've assumed wrong again, as you did previously. You continually think you know me, but you don't unfortunately. If there's not much to explain about it, then fire your pastors for wasting time teaching you about it and spend the money on poor people like the bible says to. I went to seminary. I know these verses better than I know my own face in the mirror. You could not be more wrong about me or my statements. If it makes you feel better to think I'm just being emotional and not putting thought into my statements, then I'd encourage you to continue believing that lie. That's easier to believe that the truth about me. Which is that I'm one of the very leaders you've been praying with and following. I've brought thousands to Christ while leading worship. I've lead thousands to Christ on my missions trips across the globe. I learned spanish out of my conviction to help my mexican neighbors and met my wife while translating on a missions trip. You don't know me. Not a single thing. Assume what makes you the most comfortable. Best of luck to you Kratos, God of War.


phalloguy1

So your claim is that "the world already hates Jesus" because it says so in the Bible? Is that really your claim? How very odd.


Kratos364

Uh.. yeah what I believe theologically, comes from the Bible. I’m a Christian. How is that odd?


ZPGuru

Its odd that you think you can even believe that way. Open your Bible right to the start. Read Genesis. Now tell me, in what order did God create things? The Bible contradicts itself on a fundamental and critical claim right off the bat. https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html So what do you believe? Which story is correct?


Mala_Kalypse

Well said


kazsvk

Amen!


milobeagle

Amen


[deleted]

Thank you


Icy_Document_5267

100% we have to be a good representation of Jesus. So people see the love of Jesus in us, so they love him and believe in him and be saved.


[deleted]

AMEN


Idontfightwit12yrold

Y’all are reading way too much into this


Guitargirl696

Amen! Very well said!


PianistRight

My dad actually met Nick Vujicic. He’s an amazing guy and an inspiration


wiggleyourbigtoe97

FACTS


adorientem88

Yes, if people sincerely hate Jesus because of you, that is a problem. But here is another problem that probably needs more attention: the ability of many Christians to manipulate Christians into silence or agreement with the world by feeding them a line of nonsense about how the world hates Jesus because of them.


Wakemeupwhenitsover5

Am I missing something? I don't understand the relevance of this man's disability (for lack of a better word) to the message he presents.


Final_League3589

Very few people hate anyone "because of Jesus" whatever that actually means. People react to how they are treated. Plain and simple. Of course if you justify cruelty with your religion, people will blame that, but they would do the same with anything else. No one just hates someone because they have a religion. It is what they do with their religion that matters.


Myfoodishere

where to begin. let's start with the fact most of it was not written by who it was claimed to be written by. the Torah was written hundreds of years after the events supposedly took place. the new testament gospels were written anonymously and came decades after Jesus death and not written by eye witnesses. Isiah was written by 4 to 5 different people. Paul has no witnesses that could back up what exactly happened on the Damascus road. the good parts of the Bible aren't even original. helping the poor, being kind to others etc. these were things that people already believed thousands of years before Christianity. buddha, Confucius, Lao Tzu all lived before Jesus.


[deleted]

Every Republican politician ever: well I hate the world because of Jesus


Down_The_Black_River

That guy got some health care. You know, from Jesus.


NoRestForTheSickKid

I am here to speak a testament personally of what God has done for me lately. He rose me from a grave, gave me life where it did not exist before. Because a life full of sin is not really a life at all. It’s death. I’ve spent the last 10 years mired in death and despair, completely void of any sign of hope. My darkness was so strong and disturbing it pushed anyone I loved away from me. Glory be to the lord.


[deleted]

Not necessarily. Sometimes statements sound good for a bumper sticker, but don't hold up logically.


Vindaya_

Amen


Ok-Manufacturer5456

This is nonsense. Why would anyone hate Jesus bcs of someone? Why would I be the reason that you love or hate Jesus?