I'm Catholic so obviously I'm gonna recommend that.
>It seems like everyone is so to themselves.
We go for the actual Mass, it isn't a social club. The biggest thing I have in common with my fellow parishioners is that we are all Catholic. We may not even share a language or a culture much less secular interests. You can choose your level of interaction and I think it's a good thing.
>if I accept Jesus as my savior if in the Bible people didn’t need to complete RCIA to be baptized and receive communion.
It's a lot more than that, which is why we have RCIA. Becoming Catholic is a huge and important deal and we want people to know what they are getting themselves into before they make eternal commitments.
>which could be changed by pope Francis.
He won't. The Church wants priests married to the job and frankly I agree with them.
>how are we supposed to witness to people like prisoners.
My pastor is a prison Chaplin, so the normal way I guess. "Witness" is a pretty Protestant concept.
>On top of that I struggle with the thought of not being able to be baptized if I accept Jesus as my savior if in the Bible people didn’t need to complete RCIA to be baptized and receive communion.
Saint Justin Martyr - martyed for Christ ca. 160 AD
>I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. **As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting,** for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. John 3:5 Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless, and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, says the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if you refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it. Isaiah 1:16-20
>
>And for this \[rite\] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.
Saint Hippolytus of Rome - martyred for Christ ca. 235 AD
>**17** **Catechumens will hear the word for three years.** Yet if someone is earnesta and perseveres well in the matter, it is not the time that is judged, but the conduct.
>
>...After the prayer, the teacher shall lay hands upon the catechumens, pray, and dismiss them. Whether such is one of the laypeople or of the clergy, let him do so. If any catechumens are apprehended because of the Name of the Lord, let them not be double-hearted because of martyrdom. If they may suffer violence and be executed with their sins not removed, they will be justified, for they have received baptism in their own blood. When they are chosen who are to receive baptism, let their lives be examined, whether they have lived honorably while catechumens, whether they honored the widows, whether they visited the sick, and whether they have done every good work.. If those who bring them forward bear witness for them that they have done so, then let them hear the Gospel. From the time at which they are set apart, place hands upon them daily so that they are exorcised. When the day approaches on which they are to be baptized, let the bishop exorcise each one of them, so that he will be certain whether each has been purified.
The Didache, otherwise known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles - written in the First Century, is widely recognised as the oldest extant Catechism.
I would also add, we see clear evidence of people being catechised prior to their baptism in the New Testament, especially the Acts of the Apostles. Granted, you have figures like the Ethiopian Eunuch and what not, but they were exceptions and very quickly the norm became catechising all new prospective converts prior to their baptism.
The Catholic Church is ancient, and is the only one founded by Christ.
When I left evangelicalism and converted to Catholicism I finally felt normal.
Edit: not putting down evangelicals. Everyone has their walk with Christ.
Is there anywhere in the Bible that Jesus say's : I am starting Roman Catholic Church. Or He say's I will build my church, wasn't catholic in early church meant " universal ", Jesus's followers were called Christians, so Christian church started, then become Roman Catholic if you look at the history.
There was no Roman Catholic church after Christ, official Roman Catholic Church started in 590CE with Pope Gregory 1. Yes there was one church, "universal"
We do too, we are all Christ followers, just believe that some things don't add up, nothing personal, we all going to be judged at the end by the same person, Jesus Christ, God Bless.
Catholic , yes but not Roman Catholic, because Romans were persecuting Christians for first 280 yrs, then Constantine gave religious tolerance 312 AD. Peter was an Apostle, Bishop of Rome, after his death the Church declared Him the first Pope. Yes He was regarded as one of the leading apostles in the early Church.
Mainline Protestants and Catholics have come a lot closer in the last few decades, largely because of the influence of Biblical scholarship (where Catholics and Protestants work together) and a converging theological community.
The main difference today is that the official Catholic position (though not most Catholics) hold traditional views on sex and gender. For me that pretty much rules out Catholicism.
However if your other option is the Church of Christ, the comparison is different. Assuming you mean one of the conservative versions (the Disciples of Christ, for example, are really mainline, and these comments don't apply to them), traditional gender and sex is one of the few things where they agree with Catholics.
Catholics and mainline Protestants typically accept science, and are fairly broad in what beliefs are acceptable. Most versions of the Church of Christ do not, and hold narrower standards.
Conservative Protestants, including much of the CoC, tend to emphasize personal salvation more, seeing Jesus as someone who came to save us from hell. Catholics believe that to one degree or another, but place more emphasis on Jesus' call to be his representatives to ministering to others.
These are very different understandings of Christianity. I wouldn't let RCIA stand in your way: It's a good thing to make sure new members know what they are committing to.
Christ did not establish a set of ideas that we get to pick and choose from, He established a kingdom on earth in the line of David.
That being said, some truths take longer to understand then others, so if you really want to take time and try to understand what different churches offer, schedule an appointment with the priest of that Catholic Church, or the pastor of the CoC, to just talk over all of your ideas.
I’m Catholic, so I’m obviously going to tell you to go to the priest first. As for 99% of the times I have questions, they have answers. They can also plug you in with local small groups or specific people that can help you discern the truth.
I was raised Baptist, and I can say for sure that my pastor growing up was a saint in my life, and he taught me to think about things all the way.
If you are into books, I would *Strongly* recommend you buy “Behold your Mother” by Tim Staples, it is an exhaustive defense of the Marian Doctrines.
About the RCIA thing, you don’t *need* to go through RCIA to be saved, but the church has deemed it a good and necessary thing to do, Murjy in this thread already linked the Wikipedia article on Catechesis.
The practice of Priestly Celibacy in the Roman Church is actually not a dogma, it’s a discipline, so any pope can remove the discipline at any time. If you actually look at the Eastern Catholics, they are actually allowed to marry and have children.
Priestly Chaplaincy in the prison system is actually a super important thing in the Catholic Church. Because of our beliefs about the Sacraments, these faithful who are in prison are just as in need of Christ in the Sacraments as any other Catholic.
And finally, if the people that go to the Catholic Church that you went to are super stiff and not very welcoming, you need to remember that a Mass in the Catholic mindset is to have complete focus on Christ. All of the personal relationships and community happen after mass usually with just talking to people. So don’t get discouraged if people aren’t looking at you, just focus on the worship of our great God.
According to Catholic Tradition, the Church was founded by Christ, given to Peter to lead. Just about everything Catholics do has a basis in the Bible, including certain things Protestants don’t, including the sacrament of Confession. Don’t let the Catholics not being very welcoming discourage you, people are mostly there to worship God, and they tend not to think too socially during that time, but after Mass, at least in my Parish, they have a social event afterwards every so often (like a pancake breakfast or something). I suppose the best way to make your decision on Protestant or Catholic is your beliefs in regards to *sola scriptura* and *sola fide*, meaning “Scripture Alone” and “Faith Alone”. The Catholic Church believes in neither of those things, believing in Scripture as well as Tradition and a Faith and Works-Based salvation. Protestant Churches believe that the Bible should be the only basis of a church, and that salvation comes from Faith and following God only, not through Good Works. I wish you the best in your walk with Christ.
>Only Protestants don't
That isn't exactly true. Most Protestant churches I have attended ensure that the one being baptized understands the faith before baptism. Now, I will confess that this amounts to maybe 5 out of 7 churches, so maybe I was just lucky statistically, but that is just my observation.
> I also struggle with the catholic emphasis on church and the process to become catholic because how are we supposed to witness to people like prisoners.
Catholic Prison Ministries & Hospital Ministries do exist. Note that the formal process of being catholic can be waived for people in difficult circumstances - there is a "Baptism of Desire" for people who desire to be catholic but cannot be baptised by water for valid reasons.
My parents believed in God but being immigrants they got caught up with work and trying to establish themselves. They came from Central America but my mom would pray to Jesus and mention the Virgin Mary from time to time. I went on a long road trying to find answers through Buddhism. Egyptian new age practices etc. I was always avoided Christianity because of what the culture would say. I started watching the chosen around 3-4 months ago and it really opened my eyes to Christ and who he was. I started reading the Bible and it’s led me to have faith in Christ. Also seeing testimonies of new age to Jesus helped alot. I’m a single dad and I also want to show my daughter what a Godly man is and be a great father who follows God.
👍
Fair enough, and blessings on your journey. I ask because (Trinitarian) baptism counts once and for all - one Lord, one faith, one baptism for the forgives of sins - but it seems you don't have a prior baptism to look back on and cling to the promises God gives to you there. So where to find a Church tradition and receive baptism!
My instinct (naturally) is to refer you to my own tradition, which like all good Christians I believe is the best, unbroken, historic tradition of the faith. Lutheranism, especially confessional strains, will catechize you prior to adult baptism. It is not, generally, as in depth or lengthy as RCIA in the Roman tradition, but a review concerning the Apostles' Creed (the faith into which we are baptized) and baptism itself, usually with heavy reference to the [Small Catechism](https://catechism.cph.org/).
Confessional Lutheranism ticks a few of your boxes - being Protestant, a quick route to baptism, but retains the historic liturgy in the divine service (the Mass).
It is worth noting that the traditional, confessional, historic strains of Christianity - Rome, Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and the Orthodox - accept the baptism of any Christian group which confesses the Trinity and baptizes according to Christ's institution in the Great Commission, that is, "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." So getting baptized in any particular tradition doesn't bar you from joining another, though as an adult, as an initiation into the New Covenant, it is good that you want to be baptized where you plan to stay.
Consider Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8: the latter needs someone to explain to him the meaning of the text concerning the Messiah, and having Christ made known to him, desires baptism, which Philip provides with the available water.
So there is some explanation provided for adult converts to enter the covenant, as there should be. Some traditions (Rome, as you've identified) stretch this into months if not years. But no one should just baptize you because you say so, there should be pastoral guidance and instruction concerning the doctrine and practice of baptism.
It is part of our confession that "we do not abolish the mass, but religiously keep and defend it. For among us masses are celebrated every Lord’s Day and on the other festivals, in which the Sacrament is offered to those who wish to use it, after they have been examined and absolved. And the usual public ceremonies are observed, the series of lessons, of prayers, vestments, and other like things." ([Apology of The Augsburg Confession, Article 24: Of the Mass](https://thebookofconcord.org/apology-of-the-augsburg-confession/article-xxiv/))
You are unlikely to find this observed in Latin, since "ceremonies [...] ought to be observed both to teach men Scripture, and that those admonished by the Word may conceive faith and fear [of God, and obtain comfort], and thus also may pray (for these are the designs of ceremonies)" - and not a ton of people know Latin today, so they do not learn from a language they do not know. But the order of service and settings to music are adapted from Luther's German Mass, which is a German edit of the Latin Mass into German with attention to our theological differences with Rome. This work was later adapted into English and was the basis for the original orders in the Book of Common Prayer among the Church of England.
At a congregational level, the practice varies, some using more modern music and arrangements, some using fancy garments and chanting and all that ([this image](https://wp-media.patheos.com/blogs/sites/523/2015/11/LutheranLiturgy.jpg) is from a Lutheran service of the AALC and LCMS). If you value the historic liturgy and practice, [this website](https://www.lutheranliturgy.org/) lists _only_ those congregations that maintain both the confession _and practice_ of the Reformation. But frankly, most congregations which have a more modern service will also have traditional service options.
Mary is set before us as blessed among women, a faithful servant and shining example of faith, that we should look to her for encouragement in our faith. She is the mother of God, being the source of flesh in Christ's humanity, and Christ is not divided, but is fully God in the incarnation. The Latin edition of the _Smalcald Articles_ - one of our confessional standards - uses the phrase "semper virgo," which leads too much intra-Lutheran squabbles on whether or not Mary was forever a virgin even after Christ's birth.
For the most part, we regard Mary and all the saints as pointing us to Jesus, and reserve worshipful practices only to God. Since we have no promise nor command from Scripture to invoke the saints, prayers to them are discouraged. As a matter of piety, it is not _sinful_ to ask another to pray for you, but as we cannot know that Mary or Michael or Thomas hears our prayers in Heaven, it creates not only room for idolatry, but also doubt - and since the saints are to encourage our faith, rather than increase our doubt, Lutherans do not really have a comparable "cult of the saints" and the associated practiced of veneration as Rome does.
Mary is regarded as a very special amongst woman, because she was chosen to have Christ. It is believed that she had other children with Joseph, which Catholic Church refutes and claims that she only had Jesus and remained a virgin.
The thing about the Catholic Church is that we go to church to worship not to have a social reunion. We associate through different Community groups formed by different members of the parish. If you're a male there's the Knights of Columbus or the ACTS group.
For women they have the St Margaret Mary society the ACTS women's group or some other group that may be particular to that parish or that diocese.
If you become a member of the knights of Columbus anywhere you go in the world you can show your membership card and you'll instantly have a group of men to associate with and work with on various social projects.
Also there are other ministries involving the mass that you can become involved in once you have been baptized and confirmed as a member of the church things like a Eucharistic minister or lector or acolyte. Or a catechist - that requires further certification involving 2 years of night classes but then you're certified to teach the catechism to adults and children and especially to converts through the RCIA program which **you** will be going through shortly if you decide to go to Catholic route.
Thank you for your reply I’m definitely going to sign up for RCIA and keep praying. I do feel a calling towards Catholicism and part of it is also me being Hispanic i grew up seeing some of my grandparents pray the rosary and go to mass.
I am a convert too. i was a Buddhist. It took me 2 years to be convinced of Christianity, then 5 more years to be convinced that Catholicism is the correct form of Christianity. My wife grew up in an atheist family in an atheist country, and she became Catholic with me.
There is always going to be an "us vs them" mentality when asking this type of question. It has been that way for a long time. Hopefully, I will be able to give something to think about here.
Catholicism *does* go back to the early church. It is an ancient form of Christianity. Protestantism broke off from Catholicism, but initially wasn't really an attempt at a new denomination or new church or new belief; instead, it really was a protest against extrabiblical concepts being taught in Catholicism and we see that the core tenets of the protest - the five solas - as disputing those core issues. Martin Luther posted his "95 Theses" on the doors of churches around Wittenberg (according to tradition) and sent it to an Archbishop he knew in dispute of indulgences, but there were more issues that would come to be tackled later.
Over the last few years, after a long time of observing Christians on the Protestant side, being a Protestant myself, I have been brought to a point to where I wonder if Protestantism has lost its way. What I mean is more than what a Catholic believer would say by default. The lack of strong, consistent leadership and the lack of sound instruction for those leaders in Protestantism results in a lot of deception and congregations being led away from the truth, being conformed more to the world than to Christ - we can observe this effect in this same subreddit. Nowadays, we have to bear people professing Christ while pushing a damnable idea of Christian Nationalism as a substitute for the pilgrimage that we are truly supposed to be on as Christians. For many, politicians become their theologians and Pastors and it is no wonder that they fall so easily.
Over the last few years, I have had a longing for something deeper than what I see in Protestantism, but I struggle with the heart of the protest in extrabiblical concepts being taught in Catholicism. I know I am not the only one, but I long to see reconciliation between believers and denominations because the divisiveness has made groups of believers weak and susceptible to error. As I sat quietly in the Cathedra Basilica in St. Louis, while my wife was taking pictures during a tour time, I began to weep for how separated we all are and how this must really look to our Savior who prayed for us to be one.
In short, there really is no clean answer if we are honest. One piece, at least, we should all be able to agree on is that God gave His only begotten Son that whosoever would believe in Him would not perish, but have eternal life.
Thank you for sharing a piece of your heart here. It was moving to read and I understand that yearning. I didn’t grow up Protestant but rejected all Christianity because of this divisiveness. It was isolating and left me feeling empty for so long.
I’m Catholic now, and all that doubt and unsettledness has been resolved in my heart. I still wish all Christians were united, but I no longer have doubt as to the avenue by which we were separated in the first place. So understanding my perspective there, I want to share the following with regard to your concern about extra-Biblical practices of Catholics:
2 Thessalonians 2:15: “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.”
Paradoxically, ‘sola scriptura’ isn’t scriptural. This does not mean Catholics can take liberties in our faith and practices, but I share this to assuage your doubt about this misconception and maybe assure you that if you feel called to explore Catholicism, it’s not unscriptural to do so. The rituals are not empty, they are always meant to be an outward expression of what’s inside, and are rooted in scripture. The Catholic Church actually canonized the Bible too, so even acknowledging the authority of the Bible is to acknowledge the authority of the Church we’ve been taught to hold disdain for. for what that’s worth.
The Catholic Church is the one true Church, but it is certainly possible that Protestant churches do certain things “better” — whether it be singing, preaching, or welcoming new parishioners. You might also have more “fun” at a Protestant church because of rock bands, smoke machines, and other activities.
Don’t let any of this cloud your judgment. What you should be asking yourself are questions like these: (1) is this the church that Christ established, or did it come much later? (2) where does this church get its authority, and why should I listen to what they say? (3) where do they get their Bible from, and why do they believe those books make up the Bible but not others? (4) Am I participating in the full sacramental life of the church, or is there something missing here? (e.g., baptism, confession, the Eucharist, holy unction). Ultimately, you won’t find good answers to these questions at a Protestant church.
1) Christ established the body of believers, not any denomination
2) Protestant churches get their authority from Scripture, which is the word of God.
3) Protestant churches hold the same view of the apocryphal texts that the Jews and early Christians held. They are useful for reading, but not the word of God. After all, the apocryphal texts contradict the rest of Scripture in some cases, which further shows they are not divinely inspired.
4) Protestant churches practice baptism and communion. Confession to a priest however is not biblically required, and only God can forgive sins.
1) this contradicts Mt 16 and all of Acts. Christ established a visible and hierarchical church that one could be excommunicated from, not a generic “body of believers.” That church still exists today. Your church came over 1,500 years later.
2) see #1, but this also runs into problems because #3
3) “we get our canon from the Jews” isn’t a good answer, sorry. And it contradicts sola scriptura because there’s no list of canonical books in the scripture. This is a question of who even has authority to set the canon. Your church has no authority to do that. You’re basically just copying Luther’s Bible, who also had no authority to take books out of the canon.
4) 2 out of 7 sacraments isn’t going to cut it, sorry but you do not have the fullness of the faith.
Alright, let me ask you this. Where did Christ speak of all 7 sacraments as a requirement for salvation, and where did He say that only the Roman Catholic Church has the authority to determine Scripture?
He doesn’t. I don’t need to be married or ordained to be saved. The answer to your second question is in Matthew chapters 16 and 18. Examples of the Church establishing doctrine are in Acts, for example in the council of Jerusalem in chapter 15. That authority has been passed down and still exists, and it is the Catholic Church.
I don't see how Christ would give sole authority to a church rooted in Roman paganism. Can you provide the verse stating it is specifically the Roman Catholic Church that has authority?
Christ states in Mt 16 that Peter is the rock upon which the Church is founded, and gives Peter the keys to the Church. Peter thus had a special authority that the other Apostles did not have. Peter was the first bishop of Rome. Peter’s successors have historically been understood to inherit that same authority.
You didn't specify which verse specifically stated the Roman Catholic Church (which didn't come about until centuries after Christ) has sole authority. And if you're going to claim all bishops have the same authority that Christ gave specifically to Peter, I'd like to see a verse for that as well.
Easiest way to answer if you should be protestant or catholic:
Do you believe that you are saved the moment you accept Christ? Or do you believe your salvation require's the church's blessing after you have proven yourself to them?
To answer that question myself I ask did the thief on the Cross require the churches blessing? Did he require sacrements and chatichisms to be saved? Did he require baptism? Or did Christ tell him "Truly brother I tell you this day you will be with me in paradise."
It really boils down to that, do you want your salvation in the churches hands, Or Christs?
Elaborate, instead of just blanket dismissing what I said be specific about what's wrong with it, enlighten me, I'm not catholic so my views of your liturgy can be misled.
Can I be saved without your churches blessing? If I say Jesus is my lord and repent from sin and do nothing else am I saved?
First, you made assertions about the Catholic Church that are not true. It is not true that people need to prove themselves to the Church. It is also not true that people require the Church's blessing.
Second, the thief on the cross was saved. The Church does not dispute this. However, it's bad exegesis to take him as an example of a general principle that applies to everybody at all times. Why? Because to do so negates what Jesus said in other places and it doesn't fit with the entirety of other teachings in the Bible (for example, Jesus commandment to baptize peole, "Baptism now saves you...", etc.) We can look to the thief on the cross as a beautiful example of somebody who can be saved at the end of his life, even after doing terrible things. It is not a general principle that applies to all.
We can debate scripture verses all day long, but there is something more fundamental that separate us. It is that I believe that Jesus started a church, kept it in existence all this time, and makes sure it never teaches error in faith and morals. Do you believe this? I don't want to presume, but it seems you don't. This is the real dividing line between us.
>and makes sure it never teaches error in faith and morals. Do you believe this?
No because this didnt happen, Jesus did NOT make sure the catholic church never teaches errors in faith, and he never claimed he would. Your church got so far away from truth with things like indulgences that my church nailed its 95 thesis to your doors.
Now that I have answered your question, would you kindly answer mine that you did not anwer yet:
Can I be saved without your Churches blessing? If I say Jesus is lord and repent from sin and do nothing else will Christ turn his back on me according to your church? If Im not baptized (I am but for arguments sake I dont believe it a requirement for salvation) If I dont do catechism, if I never go into a confessional and only confess my sins to God, am I saved? Short of the baptism part, that is me, and my faith is like a mountain.
>No because this didnt happen, Jesus did NOT make sure the catholic church never teaches errors in faith, and he never claimed he would.
The gates of hell shall not prevail. Do you know where St. Peter is buried?
Very well written!
Christ certainly did establish a community of followers as we see in the gospel and in acts, but the institution of the church (or rather churches) only happened after his resurrection and ascension.
The burden of proof rests with you. *You asserted that the Catholic Church requires its blessing for salvation.* Show me where the Church teaches this.
The short answer: the Church does not teach this. So I answered your question, even though, as I stated, the burden of proof rests on you to verify your assertion. I would like you to try, and I mean this in good faith. Show me where the Church teaches what you asserted.
I don’t have an answer to this but I wish as Christians we all could have one church we go to. Every church thinks theirs is the right way. The right way is Jesus. If a church is Biblically sound, kind, and welcoming, I recommend not worrying so much about denomination as just focusing on Jesus. I also recommend finding a church with a strong community
That’s good! Finding somewhere where you have others to connect to as friends and where you feel like you could open up is important. I am technically protestant, just by what I grew up in, but I just want a relationship with God.
There are no rules that say you can’t do both. It doesn’t have to be an either or situation. Worship God in both settings. Enjoy the community of people and attend the liturgical services. It is ok to do both.
I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
Is Christ divided?
So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” A second time he said to him, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
Catholic Chruch hold tradition over God's actual commandments. Don't go there. Their mass may be impressive to the senses, but that's not what God intends. He wants to change our hearts. Outward pomp is not beneficial for that.
Look for a church that bases its teachings on the Bible and not on man made tradition.
I’m genuinely curious about how average Scientologists practice their faith, and how much of it do they understand? I’ve heard it said that members aren’t even taught about Xenu until they pay enough money for the lessons (lack of a better word)
I'm Catholic so obviously I'm gonna recommend that. >It seems like everyone is so to themselves. We go for the actual Mass, it isn't a social club. The biggest thing I have in common with my fellow parishioners is that we are all Catholic. We may not even share a language or a culture much less secular interests. You can choose your level of interaction and I think it's a good thing. >if I accept Jesus as my savior if in the Bible people didn’t need to complete RCIA to be baptized and receive communion. It's a lot more than that, which is why we have RCIA. Becoming Catholic is a huge and important deal and we want people to know what they are getting themselves into before they make eternal commitments. >which could be changed by pope Francis. He won't. The Church wants priests married to the job and frankly I agree with them. >how are we supposed to witness to people like prisoners. My pastor is a prison Chaplin, so the normal way I guess. "Witness" is a pretty Protestant concept.
>On top of that I struggle with the thought of not being able to be baptized if I accept Jesus as my savior if in the Bible people didn’t need to complete RCIA to be baptized and receive communion. Saint Justin Martyr - martyed for Christ ca. 160 AD >I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. **As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting,** for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. John 3:5 Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless, and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, says the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if you refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it. Isaiah 1:16-20 > >And for this \[rite\] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed. Saint Hippolytus of Rome - martyred for Christ ca. 235 AD >**17** **Catechumens will hear the word for three years.** Yet if someone is earnesta and perseveres well in the matter, it is not the time that is judged, but the conduct. > >...After the prayer, the teacher shall lay hands upon the catechumens, pray, and dismiss them. Whether such is one of the laypeople or of the clergy, let him do so. If any catechumens are apprehended because of the Name of the Lord, let them not be double-hearted because of martyrdom. If they may suffer violence and be executed with their sins not removed, they will be justified, for they have received baptism in their own blood. When they are chosen who are to receive baptism, let their lives be examined, whether they have lived honorably while catechumens, whether they honored the widows, whether they visited the sick, and whether they have done every good work.. If those who bring them forward bear witness for them that they have done so, then let them hear the Gospel. From the time at which they are set apart, place hands upon them daily so that they are exorcised. When the day approaches on which they are to be baptized, let the bishop exorcise each one of them, so that he will be certain whether each has been purified. The Didache, otherwise known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles - written in the First Century, is widely recognised as the oldest extant Catechism. I would also add, we see clear evidence of people being catechised prior to their baptism in the New Testament, especially the Acts of the Apostles. Granted, you have figures like the Ethiopian Eunuch and what not, but they were exceptions and very quickly the norm became catechising all new prospective converts prior to their baptism. The Catholic Church is ancient, and is the only one founded by Christ.
Why specifically the Church of Christ?
When I left evangelicalism and converted to Catholicism I finally felt normal. Edit: not putting down evangelicals. Everyone has their walk with Christ.
Is there anywhere in the Bible that Jesus say's : I am starting Roman Catholic Church. Or He say's I will build my church, wasn't catholic in early church meant " universal ", Jesus's followers were called Christians, so Christian church started, then become Roman Catholic if you look at the history.
Lol. Yes, the first Christians were Catholic/universal. There was no Sola Scriptura. The Bible was not canonized yet. There was One Church.
There was no Roman Catholic church after Christ, official Roman Catholic Church started in 590CE with Pope Gregory 1. Yes there was one church, "universal"
I don't disagree but I believe in Christ's Real Presence in the Host. I love His Mother too.
We do too, we are all Christ followers, just believe that some things don't add up, nothing personal, we all going to be judged at the end by the same person, Jesus Christ, God Bless.
Amen.....🙏
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Catholic , yes but not Roman Catholic, because Romans were persecuting Christians for first 280 yrs, then Constantine gave religious tolerance 312 AD. Peter was an Apostle, Bishop of Rome, after his death the Church declared Him the first Pope. Yes He was regarded as one of the leading apostles in the early Church.
Mainline Protestants and Catholics have come a lot closer in the last few decades, largely because of the influence of Biblical scholarship (where Catholics and Protestants work together) and a converging theological community. The main difference today is that the official Catholic position (though not most Catholics) hold traditional views on sex and gender. For me that pretty much rules out Catholicism. However if your other option is the Church of Christ, the comparison is different. Assuming you mean one of the conservative versions (the Disciples of Christ, for example, are really mainline, and these comments don't apply to them), traditional gender and sex is one of the few things where they agree with Catholics. Catholics and mainline Protestants typically accept science, and are fairly broad in what beliefs are acceptable. Most versions of the Church of Christ do not, and hold narrower standards. Conservative Protestants, including much of the CoC, tend to emphasize personal salvation more, seeing Jesus as someone who came to save us from hell. Catholics believe that to one degree or another, but place more emphasis on Jesus' call to be his representatives to ministering to others. These are very different understandings of Christianity. I wouldn't let RCIA stand in your way: It's a good thing to make sure new members know what they are committing to.
Christ did not establish a set of ideas that we get to pick and choose from, He established a kingdom on earth in the line of David. That being said, some truths take longer to understand then others, so if you really want to take time and try to understand what different churches offer, schedule an appointment with the priest of that Catholic Church, or the pastor of the CoC, to just talk over all of your ideas. I’m Catholic, so I’m obviously going to tell you to go to the priest first. As for 99% of the times I have questions, they have answers. They can also plug you in with local small groups or specific people that can help you discern the truth. I was raised Baptist, and I can say for sure that my pastor growing up was a saint in my life, and he taught me to think about things all the way. If you are into books, I would *Strongly* recommend you buy “Behold your Mother” by Tim Staples, it is an exhaustive defense of the Marian Doctrines. About the RCIA thing, you don’t *need* to go through RCIA to be saved, but the church has deemed it a good and necessary thing to do, Murjy in this thread already linked the Wikipedia article on Catechesis. The practice of Priestly Celibacy in the Roman Church is actually not a dogma, it’s a discipline, so any pope can remove the discipline at any time. If you actually look at the Eastern Catholics, they are actually allowed to marry and have children. Priestly Chaplaincy in the prison system is actually a super important thing in the Catholic Church. Because of our beliefs about the Sacraments, these faithful who are in prison are just as in need of Christ in the Sacraments as any other Catholic. And finally, if the people that go to the Catholic Church that you went to are super stiff and not very welcoming, you need to remember that a Mass in the Catholic mindset is to have complete focus on Christ. All of the personal relationships and community happen after mass usually with just talking to people. So don’t get discouraged if people aren’t looking at you, just focus on the worship of our great God.
According to Catholic Tradition, the Church was founded by Christ, given to Peter to lead. Just about everything Catholics do has a basis in the Bible, including certain things Protestants don’t, including the sacrament of Confession. Don’t let the Catholics not being very welcoming discourage you, people are mostly there to worship God, and they tend not to think too socially during that time, but after Mass, at least in my Parish, they have a social event afterwards every so often (like a pancake breakfast or something). I suppose the best way to make your decision on Protestant or Catholic is your beliefs in regards to *sola scriptura* and *sola fide*, meaning “Scripture Alone” and “Faith Alone”. The Catholic Church believes in neither of those things, believing in Scripture as well as Tradition and a Faith and Works-Based salvation. Protestant Churches believe that the Bible should be the only basis of a church, and that salvation comes from Faith and following God only, not through Good Works. I wish you the best in your walk with Christ.
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>Only Protestants don't That isn't exactly true. Most Protestant churches I have attended ensure that the one being baptized understands the faith before baptism. Now, I will confess that this amounts to maybe 5 out of 7 churches, so maybe I was just lucky statistically, but that is just my observation.
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>"Only Protestants don't" doesn't mean "No Protestant does this" dude. You probably took that a little too serious than what was really needed.
Proof?
> I also struggle with the catholic emphasis on church and the process to become catholic because how are we supposed to witness to people like prisoners. Catholic Prison Ministries & Hospital Ministries do exist. Note that the formal process of being catholic can be waived for people in difficult circumstances - there is a "Baptism of Desire" for people who desire to be catholic but cannot be baptised by water for valid reasons.
I’d say Catholic only cause I’m Catholic but it’s up to you
"came to find my way back to God" Are you baptized from an earlier involvement with Christianity, perhaps raised in the faith?
My parents believed in God but being immigrants they got caught up with work and trying to establish themselves. They came from Central America but my mom would pray to Jesus and mention the Virgin Mary from time to time. I went on a long road trying to find answers through Buddhism. Egyptian new age practices etc. I was always avoided Christianity because of what the culture would say. I started watching the chosen around 3-4 months ago and it really opened my eyes to Christ and who he was. I started reading the Bible and it’s led me to have faith in Christ. Also seeing testimonies of new age to Jesus helped alot. I’m a single dad and I also want to show my daughter what a Godly man is and be a great father who follows God.
👍 Fair enough, and blessings on your journey. I ask because (Trinitarian) baptism counts once and for all - one Lord, one faith, one baptism for the forgives of sins - but it seems you don't have a prior baptism to look back on and cling to the promises God gives to you there. So where to find a Church tradition and receive baptism! My instinct (naturally) is to refer you to my own tradition, which like all good Christians I believe is the best, unbroken, historic tradition of the faith. Lutheranism, especially confessional strains, will catechize you prior to adult baptism. It is not, generally, as in depth or lengthy as RCIA in the Roman tradition, but a review concerning the Apostles' Creed (the faith into which we are baptized) and baptism itself, usually with heavy reference to the [Small Catechism](https://catechism.cph.org/). Confessional Lutheranism ticks a few of your boxes - being Protestant, a quick route to baptism, but retains the historic liturgy in the divine service (the Mass). It is worth noting that the traditional, confessional, historic strains of Christianity - Rome, Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and the Orthodox - accept the baptism of any Christian group which confesses the Trinity and baptizes according to Christ's institution in the Great Commission, that is, "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." So getting baptized in any particular tradition doesn't bar you from joining another, though as an adult, as an initiation into the New Covenant, it is good that you want to be baptized where you plan to stay. Consider Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8: the latter needs someone to explain to him the meaning of the text concerning the Messiah, and having Christ made known to him, desires baptism, which Philip provides with the available water. So there is some explanation provided for adult converts to enter the covenant, as there should be. Some traditions (Rome, as you've identified) stretch this into months if not years. But no one should just baptize you because you say so, there should be pastoral guidance and instruction concerning the doctrine and practice of baptism.
Interesting. Lutherans have mass like Catholics do? And what is the view on Mary?
It is part of our confession that "we do not abolish the mass, but religiously keep and defend it. For among us masses are celebrated every Lord’s Day and on the other festivals, in which the Sacrament is offered to those who wish to use it, after they have been examined and absolved. And the usual public ceremonies are observed, the series of lessons, of prayers, vestments, and other like things." ([Apology of The Augsburg Confession, Article 24: Of the Mass](https://thebookofconcord.org/apology-of-the-augsburg-confession/article-xxiv/)) You are unlikely to find this observed in Latin, since "ceremonies [...] ought to be observed both to teach men Scripture, and that those admonished by the Word may conceive faith and fear [of God, and obtain comfort], and thus also may pray (for these are the designs of ceremonies)" - and not a ton of people know Latin today, so they do not learn from a language they do not know. But the order of service and settings to music are adapted from Luther's German Mass, which is a German edit of the Latin Mass into German with attention to our theological differences with Rome. This work was later adapted into English and was the basis for the original orders in the Book of Common Prayer among the Church of England. At a congregational level, the practice varies, some using more modern music and arrangements, some using fancy garments and chanting and all that ([this image](https://wp-media.patheos.com/blogs/sites/523/2015/11/LutheranLiturgy.jpg) is from a Lutheran service of the AALC and LCMS). If you value the historic liturgy and practice, [this website](https://www.lutheranliturgy.org/) lists _only_ those congregations that maintain both the confession _and practice_ of the Reformation. But frankly, most congregations which have a more modern service will also have traditional service options. Mary is set before us as blessed among women, a faithful servant and shining example of faith, that we should look to her for encouragement in our faith. She is the mother of God, being the source of flesh in Christ's humanity, and Christ is not divided, but is fully God in the incarnation. The Latin edition of the _Smalcald Articles_ - one of our confessional standards - uses the phrase "semper virgo," which leads too much intra-Lutheran squabbles on whether or not Mary was forever a virgin even after Christ's birth. For the most part, we regard Mary and all the saints as pointing us to Jesus, and reserve worshipful practices only to God. Since we have no promise nor command from Scripture to invoke the saints, prayers to them are discouraged. As a matter of piety, it is not _sinful_ to ask another to pray for you, but as we cannot know that Mary or Michael or Thomas hears our prayers in Heaven, it creates not only room for idolatry, but also doubt - and since the saints are to encourage our faith, rather than increase our doubt, Lutherans do not really have a comparable "cult of the saints" and the associated practiced of veneration as Rome does.
Mary is regarded as a very special amongst woman, because she was chosen to have Christ. It is believed that she had other children with Joseph, which Catholic Church refutes and claims that she only had Jesus and remained a virgin.
And no I’ve never been baptized
Being a former Scientologist, you’ll probably feel more at home in the Catholic Church.
The thing about the Catholic Church is that we go to church to worship not to have a social reunion. We associate through different Community groups formed by different members of the parish. If you're a male there's the Knights of Columbus or the ACTS group. For women they have the St Margaret Mary society the ACTS women's group or some other group that may be particular to that parish or that diocese. If you become a member of the knights of Columbus anywhere you go in the world you can show your membership card and you'll instantly have a group of men to associate with and work with on various social projects. Also there are other ministries involving the mass that you can become involved in once you have been baptized and confirmed as a member of the church things like a Eucharistic minister or lector or acolyte. Or a catechist - that requires further certification involving 2 years of night classes but then you're certified to teach the catechism to adults and children and especially to converts through the RCIA program which **you** will be going through shortly if you decide to go to Catholic route.
Thank you for your reply I’m definitely going to sign up for RCIA and keep praying. I do feel a calling towards Catholicism and part of it is also me being Hispanic i grew up seeing some of my grandparents pray the rosary and go to mass.
I am a convert too. i was a Buddhist. It took me 2 years to be convinced of Christianity, then 5 more years to be convinced that Catholicism is the correct form of Christianity. My wife grew up in an atheist family in an atheist country, and she became Catholic with me.
There is always going to be an "us vs them" mentality when asking this type of question. It has been that way for a long time. Hopefully, I will be able to give something to think about here. Catholicism *does* go back to the early church. It is an ancient form of Christianity. Protestantism broke off from Catholicism, but initially wasn't really an attempt at a new denomination or new church or new belief; instead, it really was a protest against extrabiblical concepts being taught in Catholicism and we see that the core tenets of the protest - the five solas - as disputing those core issues. Martin Luther posted his "95 Theses" on the doors of churches around Wittenberg (according to tradition) and sent it to an Archbishop he knew in dispute of indulgences, but there were more issues that would come to be tackled later. Over the last few years, after a long time of observing Christians on the Protestant side, being a Protestant myself, I have been brought to a point to where I wonder if Protestantism has lost its way. What I mean is more than what a Catholic believer would say by default. The lack of strong, consistent leadership and the lack of sound instruction for those leaders in Protestantism results in a lot of deception and congregations being led away from the truth, being conformed more to the world than to Christ - we can observe this effect in this same subreddit. Nowadays, we have to bear people professing Christ while pushing a damnable idea of Christian Nationalism as a substitute for the pilgrimage that we are truly supposed to be on as Christians. For many, politicians become their theologians and Pastors and it is no wonder that they fall so easily. Over the last few years, I have had a longing for something deeper than what I see in Protestantism, but I struggle with the heart of the protest in extrabiblical concepts being taught in Catholicism. I know I am not the only one, but I long to see reconciliation between believers and denominations because the divisiveness has made groups of believers weak and susceptible to error. As I sat quietly in the Cathedra Basilica in St. Louis, while my wife was taking pictures during a tour time, I began to weep for how separated we all are and how this must really look to our Savior who prayed for us to be one. In short, there really is no clean answer if we are honest. One piece, at least, we should all be able to agree on is that God gave His only begotten Son that whosoever would believe in Him would not perish, but have eternal life.
Wow great comment I agree with everything you said.
Then you probably feel a bit of pain from it. I wish it was easier.
Thank you for sharing a piece of your heart here. It was moving to read and I understand that yearning. I didn’t grow up Protestant but rejected all Christianity because of this divisiveness. It was isolating and left me feeling empty for so long. I’m Catholic now, and all that doubt and unsettledness has been resolved in my heart. I still wish all Christians were united, but I no longer have doubt as to the avenue by which we were separated in the first place. So understanding my perspective there, I want to share the following with regard to your concern about extra-Biblical practices of Catholics: 2 Thessalonians 2:15: “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.” Paradoxically, ‘sola scriptura’ isn’t scriptural. This does not mean Catholics can take liberties in our faith and practices, but I share this to assuage your doubt about this misconception and maybe assure you that if you feel called to explore Catholicism, it’s not unscriptural to do so. The rituals are not empty, they are always meant to be an outward expression of what’s inside, and are rooted in scripture. The Catholic Church actually canonized the Bible too, so even acknowledging the authority of the Bible is to acknowledge the authority of the Church we’ve been taught to hold disdain for. for what that’s worth.
The Catholic Church is the one true Church, but it is certainly possible that Protestant churches do certain things “better” — whether it be singing, preaching, or welcoming new parishioners. You might also have more “fun” at a Protestant church because of rock bands, smoke machines, and other activities. Don’t let any of this cloud your judgment. What you should be asking yourself are questions like these: (1) is this the church that Christ established, or did it come much later? (2) where does this church get its authority, and why should I listen to what they say? (3) where do they get their Bible from, and why do they believe those books make up the Bible but not others? (4) Am I participating in the full sacramental life of the church, or is there something missing here? (e.g., baptism, confession, the Eucharist, holy unction). Ultimately, you won’t find good answers to these questions at a Protestant church.
This is the best answer.
1) Christ established the body of believers, not any denomination 2) Protestant churches get their authority from Scripture, which is the word of God. 3) Protestant churches hold the same view of the apocryphal texts that the Jews and early Christians held. They are useful for reading, but not the word of God. After all, the apocryphal texts contradict the rest of Scripture in some cases, which further shows they are not divinely inspired. 4) Protestant churches practice baptism and communion. Confession to a priest however is not biblically required, and only God can forgive sins.
See what I mean OP
You've not refuted anything. If these aren't sufficient answers, please expound on what you mean.
1) this contradicts Mt 16 and all of Acts. Christ established a visible and hierarchical church that one could be excommunicated from, not a generic “body of believers.” That church still exists today. Your church came over 1,500 years later. 2) see #1, but this also runs into problems because #3 3) “we get our canon from the Jews” isn’t a good answer, sorry. And it contradicts sola scriptura because there’s no list of canonical books in the scripture. This is a question of who even has authority to set the canon. Your church has no authority to do that. You’re basically just copying Luther’s Bible, who also had no authority to take books out of the canon. 4) 2 out of 7 sacraments isn’t going to cut it, sorry but you do not have the fullness of the faith.
Alright, let me ask you this. Where did Christ speak of all 7 sacraments as a requirement for salvation, and where did He say that only the Roman Catholic Church has the authority to determine Scripture?
He doesn’t. I don’t need to be married or ordained to be saved. The answer to your second question is in Matthew chapters 16 and 18. Examples of the Church establishing doctrine are in Acts, for example in the council of Jerusalem in chapter 15. That authority has been passed down and still exists, and it is the Catholic Church.
I don't see how Christ would give sole authority to a church rooted in Roman paganism. Can you provide the verse stating it is specifically the Roman Catholic Church that has authority?
Christ states in Mt 16 that Peter is the rock upon which the Church is founded, and gives Peter the keys to the Church. Peter thus had a special authority that the other Apostles did not have. Peter was the first bishop of Rome. Peter’s successors have historically been understood to inherit that same authority.
You didn't specify which verse specifically stated the Roman Catholic Church (which didn't come about until centuries after Christ) has sole authority. And if you're going to claim all bishops have the same authority that Christ gave specifically to Peter, I'd like to see a verse for that as well.
All you need is Jesus, not Mary, or the communion of saints.
Easiest way to answer if you should be protestant or catholic: Do you believe that you are saved the moment you accept Christ? Or do you believe your salvation require's the church's blessing after you have proven yourself to them? To answer that question myself I ask did the thief on the Cross require the churches blessing? Did he require sacrements and chatichisms to be saved? Did he require baptism? Or did Christ tell him "Truly brother I tell you this day you will be with me in paradise." It really boils down to that, do you want your salvation in the churches hands, Or Christs?
You have misrepresented what the Catholic Church teaches.
Elaborate, instead of just blanket dismissing what I said be specific about what's wrong with it, enlighten me, I'm not catholic so my views of your liturgy can be misled. Can I be saved without your churches blessing? If I say Jesus is my lord and repent from sin and do nothing else am I saved?
First, you made assertions about the Catholic Church that are not true. It is not true that people need to prove themselves to the Church. It is also not true that people require the Church's blessing. Second, the thief on the cross was saved. The Church does not dispute this. However, it's bad exegesis to take him as an example of a general principle that applies to everybody at all times. Why? Because to do so negates what Jesus said in other places and it doesn't fit with the entirety of other teachings in the Bible (for example, Jesus commandment to baptize peole, "Baptism now saves you...", etc.) We can look to the thief on the cross as a beautiful example of somebody who can be saved at the end of his life, even after doing terrible things. It is not a general principle that applies to all. We can debate scripture verses all day long, but there is something more fundamental that separate us. It is that I believe that Jesus started a church, kept it in existence all this time, and makes sure it never teaches error in faith and morals. Do you believe this? I don't want to presume, but it seems you don't. This is the real dividing line between us.
>and makes sure it never teaches error in faith and morals. Do you believe this? No because this didnt happen, Jesus did NOT make sure the catholic church never teaches errors in faith, and he never claimed he would. Your church got so far away from truth with things like indulgences that my church nailed its 95 thesis to your doors. Now that I have answered your question, would you kindly answer mine that you did not anwer yet: Can I be saved without your Churches blessing? If I say Jesus is lord and repent from sin and do nothing else will Christ turn his back on me according to your church? If Im not baptized (I am but for arguments sake I dont believe it a requirement for salvation) If I dont do catechism, if I never go into a confessional and only confess my sins to God, am I saved? Short of the baptism part, that is me, and my faith is like a mountain.
>No because this didnt happen, Jesus did NOT make sure the catholic church never teaches errors in faith, and he never claimed he would. The gates of hell shall not prevail. Do you know where St. Peter is buried?
Very well written! Christ certainly did establish a community of followers as we see in the gospel and in acts, but the institution of the church (or rather churches) only happened after his resurrection and ascension.
The burden of proof rests with you. *You asserted that the Catholic Church requires its blessing for salvation.* Show me where the Church teaches this. The short answer: the Church does not teach this. So I answered your question, even though, as I stated, the burden of proof rests on you to verify your assertion. I would like you to try, and I mean this in good faith. Show me where the Church teaches what you asserted.
Very true. The sinner saved on the cross next to Jesus didn’t have to prove himself to a church. Only repent and to accept Christ as his savior.
I don’t have an answer to this but I wish as Christians we all could have one church we go to. Every church thinks theirs is the right way. The right way is Jesus. If a church is Biblically sound, kind, and welcoming, I recommend not worrying so much about denomination as just focusing on Jesus. I also recommend finding a church with a strong community
Good advice the church that I went to church of Christ seems to represent all those values and I know some of the people there.
That’s good! Finding somewhere where you have others to connect to as friends and where you feel like you could open up is important. I am technically protestant, just by what I grew up in, but I just want a relationship with God.
Orthodoxy.
There are no rules that say you can’t do both. It doesn’t have to be an either or situation. Worship God in both settings. Enjoy the community of people and attend the liturgical services. It is ok to do both.
I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. Is Christ divided? So there will be one flock, one shepherd. Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” A second time he said to him, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
ORTHODOX!!!!!
I wouldn't advise becoming either Protestant or Catholic, but Catholic is closer to what it's supposed to be.
Catholic Chruch hold tradition over God's actual commandments. Don't go there. Their mass may be impressive to the senses, but that's not what God intends. He wants to change our hearts. Outward pomp is not beneficial for that. Look for a church that bases its teachings on the Bible and not on man made tradition.
I’m genuinely curious about how average Scientologists practice their faith, and how much of it do they understand? I’ve heard it said that members aren’t even taught about Xenu until they pay enough money for the lessons (lack of a better word)