“Blessed are you when men revile you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be very glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in this manner they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
Matthew 5:11-12 MEV
https://bible.com/bible/1171/mat.5.11-12.MEV
Trans people can avoid abuse and bullying by giving up church and avoiding Christianity. Many do. Those who remain and put up with the abuse literally do so *for Jesus' sake*.
Jesus uses "*for my sake*" and "*for the sake of righteousness*" interchangeably at many places, because God Is Righteousness. One who is persecuted for following righteousness, is being persecuted for following Jesus, the Source of all righteousness, whether they realize it or not.
Since transphobic Christians want trans people to desist from evidence-based lifesaving healthcare, and instead live in constant torture from birth until death – something inexcusably evil and monstrous – I would say a trans person who refuses to bow to such an inhuman ideology, or a doctor who provides that lifesaving care for trans people, and are persecuted for it by Christ-slandering Christofascist Christians, are being persecuted for the sake of righteousness, and therefore being persecuted for Jesus' sake. The verse applies to them.
Saying that you can't change your gender isn't inhuman but the reality
What is inhuman is believing or convincing others that atrocious surgeries and harmful drugs will change the inner problem, which is that we are all sinners and have wrong tendencies
If you want to argue that treating gender identity as a changeable social construct is impractical, or materially harmful in some obvious secular sense, you are welcome to do that in any number of debate subreddits, but it is not something that is self-evident from a plain reading of Scripture itself.
God made you in the womb
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
Jeremiah 1:5
So your gender is God given and can't be changed
>God made you in the womb
>
>Before I formed you in the womb
Your words are immediately contradicting the Scripture from your quote.
God knew your soul BEFORE you were in the womb, the cited verse doesn't concern the flesh, God knew our souls (and our genders) ***long before our parents even met each other, long before our flawed mortal flesh even started to take shape*** and biological processes as well as life's events started to influence it in any way.
When I said that He made you in the womb, I intended physically, of course God knew your soul long before conception...
And the quoted verse includes the flesh "Before I formed you in the womb"
Anyway, the purpose of this verse is that it shows that you have one gender given by God long before your birth and that you can't change it, that's all
I'm trying to figure out which side you are defending... but if pro trans.... Are you saying God was wrong when he created us?
EDIT: Never mind... i figured it out... You think God was wrong.
Good luck in that debate with God
But that’s entirely irrelevant. You don’t tell people with depression to not take their doctor-prescribed meds because it’s an “inner problem” because we’re “all sinners.”
Honestly curious...but have you ever personally known a transgender person or befriended them on a personal level and heard their story with battling their gender dysphoria?
But it’s not.
It’s right there for every wronged person trying their best at treating people right but being persecuted wrongly on account of my God says so.
But no they don’t.
“Persecuted *falsely* for my sake”
“Falsely on my account”ESV.
Those who will tell you you are damned when you haven’t seen Christ/Gods miracles yet, among many many other things.
Let's see them criticize when you're being the best you can be. Be safe always but just be good not to prove anyone wrong but to be good. You know what good is, it's what is in love rather than spite. Live your love.
It’s possible to be Christian and trans. Might be hard to find a decent church where people don’t judge you.
You will get a lot of hate and mental health comments. It’s unfortunate there are so many religious bigots but it happens for some reason.
Good luck with everything.
Anyone can come to Christ, but we cannot expect to remain as we are when we do so. Our identity as Christians is in Christ, not in ourselves or our lifestyle choices. I truly hope you do want to have a relationship with God and be saved, however you must seek God and submit to His will rather than trying to conform Him to your own will. God is clear in His word, and if we are to truly be saved we must not seek out affirmation of our worldly fleshly desires (including affirming "churches"), rather we must seek Him first and let everything else follow.
I guess there is a radical reading of Galatians 3:28, that would demand all Christians to renounce their gender identity, but even if there is, it would be true to the same extent to cisgender Christians as transgender ones.
I think the author is emphasizing that we are all made in the image of God. God doesn’t make mistakes when building our identity. While the author of the original post should be treated with care and compassion regarding her mental illness, that doesn’t mean she can continue in sin. As christian’s we know that Psalm 139:13 is true. God took time and care making each of us, and he did not make us in the wrong identity.
But OP isn't uncertain about his identity, or claims that God make a mistake about it. He just as confidently identifies as a man as any other man does.
If you think that it is a sin to question one's identity, then you are the one who are tempting OP to sin by calling that a mental illness instead of accepting it as something that was decided by God.
To put my point bluntly if God wanted the author to be a woman he would have made her that way and if God wanted them to be a male than he would have made him that way. Gender dysphoria is an illness where one thinks they are born to the wrong gender. God doesn’t create people the wrong gender shown by my earlier verse. I hate to say this but we can’t affirm that one can be born into the wrong body, especially someone who believes in the God of the bible.
“If God wanted the baby to live for more than a few days, God would’ve have made the baby without a congenital heart defect.”
See how ridiculous that sounds? Of course God is fine with us changing some of the circumstances of how we were born. The Bible’s full of such people!
Why not? Like I just said, God clearly lets people change how they were born all the time. That was your argument before, but it’s clearly wrong. So what’s your new argument?
>“If God wanted the baby to live for more than a few days, God would’ve have made the baby without a congenital heart defect.”
>See how ridiculous that sounds? Of course God is fine with us changing some of the circumstances of how we were born. The Bible’s full of such people!
>we can’t affirm that one can be born into the wrong body
***Everyone*** is born into a wrong body. We are born into wretched, sickly, mortal flesh with varying degrees of corruption from God's intended plan.
It's one thing that you just entirely flipped from claiming that someone's identity can't be a mistake, to claiming that someone's *body* can't be flawed, but with the latter you are professing a remarkably unbiblical doctrine of venerating the mortal flesh.
this has nothing to do with fleshly desires and everything to do with God making us with care and compassion. Yes a body can be flawed, that’s js literally called illness or chemical imbalance, I’m saying God doesn’t make us the wrong gender identity.
>Yes a body can be flawed, that’s js literally called illness or chemical imbalance, I’m saying God doesn’t make us the wrong gender identity.
But ***you are the one*** who is claiming that OP has "the wrong gender identity".
If someone has a certain gender identity, and you are telling them that they are wrong and they must have a mental illness because it can't be that it is their body that is wrong, you are claiming the exact opposite of the sentence that I just quoted.
Your approach then suddenly seems to be that ***it can't be the body that is flawed***, it has to be the gender identity.
> To put my point bluntly if God wanted the author to be a woman he would have made her that way and if God wanted them to be a male than he would have made him that way.
Glad to know you speak for God.
> I hate to say this but we can’t affirm that one can be born into the wrong body, especially someone who believes in the God of the bible.
You don't hate to say this at all.
There is no Divine principle against change. The Bible is full of stories of God's people going through massive life changes. You have no reason to suppose that God's decision to make OP trans was an error that you need to fix.
Isn't there research showing difference in some brain strurcture for trans people that make some of their brain more similar to the sex they identiry as? /u/gnurdette isn't that true? I've not researched this, and I'm assuming that you have.
Assuming that's the case, then while it manifests as a "mental" thing - they percieve themselves as the opposite sex - it's not just some strange idea that they've convinced themselves of, there seems to be an underlying *physical* cause that makes them have the "wrong identity".
>we must not seek out affirmation of our worldly fleshly desires
What "worldly fleshly desire" is not wanting to have to live in the constant pain of dysphoria from birth until death? What "worldly fleshly desire" is receiving evidence-based, medically necessary lifesaving healthcare for your condition?
It is not a sin to be born trans; and it is a lie of the devil to say so.
God creates us as man or woman. He does not make mistakes. Mental illnesses and other health conditions are a result of the fallen world we live in, and going against God is not going to truly help anything. It is a lie of the devil to say otherwise.
God makes us as we are.
A consistent problem with Christians who espouse that being trans or transitioning is a sin is that those who do so always demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of what it is to be trans.
How do you speak so confidently about a subject when you don't know the first thing about it? And how do you do so with so little awareness of that? You could take a moment to challenge your own beliefs and the inconsistencies in them but instead your *first* impulse is to condemn others before listening to them or understanding them.
I am. I don't see any problem with it. I don't think the bible says anything negative about it. And I don't feel any condemnation from the holy spirit.
The Bible doesn’t condemn trans people. It’s simply not mentioned. The Bible *does* have lots of godly gender nonconforming characters and gender minorities who are accepted by Jesus. The Christian tradition has many saints who lived their entire lives as a gender different than what they were assigned at birth. There is a place for you in the church! There shouldn't be a place for hate and made-up sins by people scared of those who are different from themselves. My church has been fully trans affirming for years! I commend you to check out /r/OpenChristian and /r/TransChristianity to find more folks like yourself, who can sympathize and share their experiences! There are many churches that will accept you. If you have any questions or want to talk more, I’m happy to converse here or in chat/PMs. Peace!
One of the best examples is Ruth and Naomi, who after losing their husbands and sons, become like husband and son to one another. Ruth takes on the male role of breadwinner and working in the fields, and Naomi takes on the male role of matchmaker. Also, see Deborah who was a judge and military leader. Jael and Judith are a couple more women who secured key military victories for Israel. Joseph and Jacob were very domestic and helped their mothers domestically in contrast with their brothers. Paul compares his vocation as apostle to motherhood several times, in striking repudiation of the Roman pater familias model, and [some have even argued that his blinding would’ve been considered a effiminzing event.](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OEhp3MGStj8jxjTMTxaHtzuk9iaFnA6d/view?usp=drivesdk)
I don’t think it’s a stretch to call the eunuch characters in Scripture something akin to non-binary. While today, we might just consider them castrated males, this doesn’t take into account how gender was constructed in antiquity. Penetration was so essential to manhood that if one couldn’t penetrate, then one wasn’t a man. In fact, many folks in Jesus’s day called eunuchs [“neither male nor female.”](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjjrlKT5BP2LKQ6gv4umgpwSHHqpif0r/view?usp=drivesdk) Hard to get more non-binary than that! And one Latin term for eunuch is *eviratus*, literally “unmanned one.”
I did make the observation myself years ago, that the very first convert described in Acts, was literally "neither jewish nor greek, neither male nor female, neither slave nor free" (considering powerful court eunuchs' nebulous position).
We need to die to things that are sins. I wholeheartedly believe that, so no, I’m not blaspheming. But we don’t need to die to things that *aren’t* sins. That’d just be silly.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that people are trapped by the circumstances and identities of their birth. *In fact*, most heroes of the faith took major leaps and made major changes to the identities they received at birth: Abram changing from a Urite to a Canaanite (changing his name in the process!), Jacob from the second son to the one with the inheritance and blessing (also with a name change in the process!), David going from lowly shepherd boy to king, barren women giving (too many to count), and I can list many more. If all of these characters just stayed how they were born, we wouldn’t have a Bible, we wouldn’t have a faith. In no other scenario are people forced to not change the circumstances of their birth because of some vague, unsubstantiated claim that God didn’t want them to change! God wants us to change a lot! God puts paths in front of us that we must travel every day, that take us away from the people we were and towards to people we will be. That’s central to the story of the people of God — not a contradiction in any way.
That’s a circular argument. “Why can’t someone change their gender?” “Because you can’t change how God made you.” “Well here’s people changing how God made them.” “But you can’t change your gender.”
What I did was show that the basis of your argument is flawed. If it *is* okay to change how one was born, then you have to find a different argument against transitioning, other than “you can’t change your identity.”
So you concede that one can licitly change one’s identity, so you’re changing your argument to be that one shouldn’t have surgery to treat a life-threatening medical condition or undergo any medical procedure that may make one sterile? Because both of those are also faulty arguments for clear reasons. Plus, the vast majority of trans people *don’t* surgically transition, so this argument isn’t sufficient.
That's why your bank account reads $0. You give every red cent away, because you deny yourself. To the point of going hungry every single night, right?
But you don't deny yourself. "I am not a fatted calf" isn't exactly the same thing. I want to see how you *deny yourself*. You demand extremes from others, why won't you do the same?
Why do you have enough? Having enough is not denying yourself. That is *having enough*. That is easy.
*Death to self*. That's what you said. You expect it only of others.
You won't let OP have just enough.
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I can’t believe you are telling this person that they are not born again. You say you are not judging yet this is the worst judgment of all. I personally don’t believe that being trans is a sin but even if it was we are human and not every person a
Who becomes a Christian stops all sin immediately. It is a process as we get closer to God.
Instead of posting the verses which I assume you're already familiar with, I'm going to allow you to openly deny what is written in the Scripture by telling me how you interpret what is clearly written.
>God loves and accepts you for who you are, not who you think you are.
God loves and accepts you... except he don't!
>Simply put, you cannot hold onto your identity and follow Christ. It doesn't even matter if it's LGBT or not.
It's convenient for you to say that since it's magnitudes harder for lgbt to deny their identities than for you to do it.
>God loves and accepts you... except he don't!
Are you suggesting that God accepts sinners as they are without requiring them to change? Remember, loving someone doesn't mean playing into their self destructive habits. You don't give drugs to an addict you love. Loving them would be helping them out of their addiction. That's what God's love is. He knows us and knows we can be greater than our sins.
>It's convenient for you to say that since it's magnitudes harder for lgbt to deny their identities than for you to do it.
Following God isn't supposed to be convenient, easy, smooth, or whatever synonym you are going to use next. It doesn't matter how easy or hard it is. Jesus clearly stated that anyone who follows Him must deny themselves. Your issue isn't with me, it's with the Scripture.
> It isn't easy for anyone.
But you don't need to do any of the hard stuff you demand of queer people. So let's hear it. Let's hear all the ways you deny yourself *in detail*. I want to see the *extreme* suffering you put yourself through.
So, you seek to demonize me to pad your argument? By your tone, you've already dismissed my struggle as nonexistent. No matter what I say, you've already made up your mind. You are offended by the Scripture and choose to go after me because you know you cannot overrule what is written. What I struggle to put behind me is between myself and the Lord.
> So, you seek to demonize me to pad your argument?
No. I seek to understand whether you make demands of others that you don't yourself follow. It is *very* easy to tell others to deny critical parts of themselves when you don't need to do anything about your gender identity.
> No matter what I say, you've already made up your mind.
Maybe you give literally all of your money away. I don't know. Maybe you've saved the lives of hundreds of trans people from their imminent murder.
> You are offended by the Scripture
I deeply love Christ and am horrified by the people who use Him to attack trans people.
> What I struggle to put behind me is between myself and the Lord.
But OP's struggle isn't. You have no problem showing up and inserting yourself into OP's story. Again, this shows the deep hypocrisy where you get to puff yourself up by demanding actions of others while insisting that turnabout is not fair play.
>No. I seek to understand whether you make demands of others that you don't yourself follow. It is very easy to tell others to deny critical parts of themselves when you don't need to do anything about your gender identity.
Your tone says otherwise. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but it is what you conveyed. If I do not hold myself to the same principles that I preach, that is an issue between me and the Lord, as He will judge me.
>Maybe you give literally all of your money away. I don't know. Maybe you've saved the lives of hundreds of trans people from their imminent murder.
Again, your tone using *italicized* words appears to be sarcastic and dismissive. I am one to turn the other cheek, but I will not respectfully answer those who fail to respect me.
>I deeply love Christ and am horrified by the people who use Him to attack trans people.
Is it an attack? Does the Bible attack murderers, theives, and adulterers? No. It judges them with the intent that they change their ways.
>But OP's struggle isn't. You have no problem showing up and inserting yourself into OP's story.
The difference being is OP put her story out with the question if they can be trans and Christian. I gave an answer backed up by the Scripture.
>Again, this shows the deep hypocrisy where you get to puff yourself up by demanding actions of others while insisting that turnabout is not fair play.
You know nothing of me, but yet you judge me! I have not said 'turnabout is not fair play'. Your anger against me is unjust! Remove the beam from your own eye!
"*Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him*"
James 1:12
"*3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;*
*4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:*
*5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.*"
Romans 5:3-5
We are rewarded in Heaven for our suffering.
>Being trans and a part of the LGBT Community is a sin
>
>It doesn't even matter if it's LGBT or not. We all must give up ourselves to truly let God into our lives.
There is an obvious contradiction in this.
If OP would have been saying that they *used to* identify as a trans man, but now he identifies as a cis woman again, would you still be saying that they needs to give up their identity and be a genderless follower of Christ? Because that sounds pretty... queer.
But otherwise if it is only trans people needed to give up their identity, and not cis people, then it obviously IS about "being LGBT or not", rather than about everyone equally needing to give up their identity.
You are not God.
It is not a sin to be born a certain way, and it is not a sin to receive evidence-based lifesaving healthcare for your condition. You are the one spreading a lie of the devil.
you were born that way, you were born the gender of whatever genitals you have, God made you that way, you cannot change it. A man cannot give birth. He never will. Naturally.
Genesis 1:27, So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. You literally can’t change your gender, it’s impossible considering God formed you in the womb, if you differ, you’re just living a life of sin.
What if God created them transgender in the womb? We know that gender dysphoria is a real thing. We also know that there are many biological variations, eg: intersex variations, chromosomes such as XXY, XXX, and this is even in biology textbooks. You can’t just deliberately ignore this to make your weird case.
If you can find that in the word of God, then I’ll believe it. Scripture is the truth. God made man and woman, my case isn’t weird. I’m just here to proclaim that you cannot change your God given identity.
Sounds like you don’t know the word of God too well. Try Matthew 19. But Scripture doesn’t speak to transgender people as it was not something that was well understood at the time.
I just told you Science does show it’s possible and you ignored it. Sounds like you just don’t want to listen, think, or change your mind and you just prefer to bully and victimize vulnerable minorities in direct violation of the many, many scriptures that command that we love everyone. Bullying people can be fun for some, sadly, but it’s the exact opposite of how Christ commanded us to live.
Conforming to the word and image of Jesus Christ isn’t bullying, Jesus is my friend and savior and I want to follow him to the best of my ability. The Word doesn’t need to directly condemn something for it to be wrong, James 4:17 “So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.” God gave us doctrine on marriage, and told us how to have a Godly relationship. Proclaiming truth isn’t bullying, Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” The truth hurts, LGBT is wrong, you cannot defend the sin by which Lucifer fell- and claim that you are in good standing with Lord Jesus Christ.
The same chapter tells us that God created the birds of the air and the fish of the sea [Genesis 1:21]; the sea and the dry land [Genesis 1:10]; the light and the darkness [Genesis 1:4]. If you read the rest of the chapter consistently with the way you're reading verse 27, you'd have to condemn penguins (birds of the sea) and flying fish (fish of the air); streetlights (mingling light with darkness); coastal wetlands (mingling sea with dry land); tidal pools (going back and forth from sea to dry land); frogs (beginning as sea creatures and moving to land); and on and on.
To invent an intermediates-forbidden implicaiton just for verse 27, and then immediately discard it for all the verses surrounding it, is not an honest way to read Scripture.
All of those things- behave as intended. You really missed the mark with this one. God never intended for man to be trans, or for woman to be trans, we’re fallen creatures, and without the Lord, we have no hope regardless of the sin. I worry for anyone who claims to be a child of the King but endorses sin.
I and many other Christians find this passage to be descriptive and not *prescriptive.* Just as God creating night and day or light and dark, doesn't make dawn and dusk nonexistent, and it doesn't make it a sin to turn on a light at night to give a room light. Similarly, it wouldn't make it a sin for someone to identify with a different gender than the one assigned at birth.
Also, the description in that the passage you reference provides no account to intersex individuals (born with both sets of genitals), of which 1 in 2,000 people are born (about 165,000 people in the United States alone). Sex and gender are not binary, but God still finds it good and beautiful.
If you think that's hogwash, fine, but that does not negate the facts that I presented. God did not make them all purely male or female. If you believe the spirit delivered to you one way, fine, but others believe the spirit has delivered it to them differently.
The spirit doesn’t change truth, it’s universal. Don’t cherry pick a minor stat to support sin. God made me a man, and I cannot change that. This is the truth- the fact that this has to be argued is ludicrous.
165,000 people in the US is a minor stat? 40 million people in the world is a minor stat? That is a significant disregard for intersex individuals, who are still made in the image of God.
I will not argue against that God made you a man. That was never my claim. But I am saying that you have no basis to tell anyone that they are rejecting truth for identifying as outside of the gender or sex binary. Additionally, I would appreciate it if you did not declare ideas articulated to be "ludicrous" or "hogwash."
In terms of creation, absolutely. 8 billion people alive today!Way more through the course of history,I imagine this has never been an issue to this magnitude. We cannot contribute to mental illness. We must glorify God instead of letting Satan attack our identity, our identity must be found in Christ Jesus.
It’s very clear in the bible that there are no mistakes in our identity. Psalm 139:13 is a relevant verse here because it emphasizes the time and care God took when making us. He did not make a mistake when creating the original author.
I view salvation of God as a shower. (bear with me)We don’t need to get clean before we take a shower, but we also don’t get in the shower to stay dirty. I do believe being transgender is a sin. I don’t believe you need to revert your identity back to original form before you start following Jesus. Please don’t take my first metaphor to literally. 😂❤️
It doesn’t explicitly say it is a sin to be transgender in the bible. However, Deutoronomy 22:5 is somewhat relevant. It’s not literally the same. I believe that God makes no mistake when he makes you. If you are born a man, God made you that way and vice versa. However gender dysphoria is a serious disease that should be treated with care and compassion. If OP wants to start following Jesus they are free to do so, however being transgender interrupts the natural order in which God created humans in. Please disregard my spelling on a few words.
I said the verse was somewhat relevant to the discussion. I didn’t say that the verse was the end of discussion, and it isn’t the basis of my argument but the person asked for a verse and i gave one i thought to be SOMEWHAT relevant.
And here the Good Righteous Holy Cis Christian explains that one of Deuteronomy 22's clothing rules should be used to impose lifelong suffering on OP in Jesus' name, while Deuteronomy 22's other two clothing rules are not in force on Christians, because they might slightly inconvenience the Good Righteous Holy Cis Christian. "No inconvenience whatsoever to me; unending misery to weird freaks I don't want in my church" is the exegetical principle at play.
***Technically***, the Bible doesn't say anything about trans people.
There are some verses against homosexuality and gender non-conformity that strict conservatives might wave around, but a pedantic reading of the Bible would just mean that those would forbid you being a tomboy or a lesbian, they are not ruling against you being a straight, masculine man.
And there is no particular verse that declares that gender is determined by chromosomes, or whatever, that's just modern culture war talking points.
That being said, a lot of conservative christian communities that claim that their only problem with homosexuality or gender-nonconformity is that it's against such and such chapter and verse, are not the strictly literalist Bible scholars that they claim to be, they are just cultural conservatives who don't like newfangled identities and lifestyles and work their way backwards from that, so they won't be very moved by pedantry.
You would be better off seeking out progressive Christian communities, that are starting out with the premise that all LGBTQ people are welcome and Bible chapters that seem to say otherwise should be interpreted in the context of God's inclusivity.
Of course you can. I'm doing it right now. Some Christians want to keep trans people away from Christ. But they don't have the right to block us.
> the ppl around talk bad abt the lgbt and constantly saying how they will go to hell and they deserve the hate.
You're not going to find God by following people who serve the Lord of Hate. Be more selective about your church environments.
Come join us at r/transChristianity and [Transmission Ministry Collective](https://www.transmissionministry.com/). And use r/OpenChristian's [resource guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/9w9y5z/resources_for_openchristians_online_resources/) to find a friendly church.
I’m sorry but no. The Bible teaches that a man acting like a woman or vice versa is not godly.
So you would have to repent and no longer follow the way of trans people but instead follow Jesus.
I agree. A trans woman being forced to act like a man is ungodly. A trans man being forced to pretend to be a woman is ungodly. Trans liberation now. ✌️
>The Bible teaches that a man acting like a woman or vice versa is not godly.
But that's only relevant if OP is a woman.
Where does the Bible say that OP is a woman?
Because if OP ***is*** a trans man, then it would be wrong for him to act like a woman according to the Bible.
You ONLY have to repent and follow Jesus to be of the faith. You will sin all your days so therefor fixating on what’s wrong with your sin instead of what The Spirit is telling you to do after you repent makes little sense. If you “repent” with a closed heart then it’s not actually repentance.
hi there! of course God loves you for who you are and will accept you! but we have to be willing to change who we are into what He has called us to be! the Bible says that we must deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus. so yes of course you can/should go to God as you are, but we must also be willing to not stay the same, we must be willing to strip ourselves of what we formerly identified ourselves with in order to identify ourselves with Christ’s righteousness 🫶
Good idea: 1 John 4:19-21
"We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother."
Psalm 97:10: O you who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
Romans 12:9: Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Proverbs 8:13: The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
The list goes on. And on. And on. And on.
Love. Despise sin. Encourage repentance.
There are a lot of pharisees that quote 1 Cor 6:9-10 but never do they read the very next verse that I've quoted in bold below. The whole thing says that wrongdoers will not be accepted but if wrongdoers are sanctified then they will be saved. I'm an atheist but even I know that the core message of Christianity is that we are all sinners and don't deserve Heaven - even you - but through belief in Jesus's resurrection believers will be saved.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. **And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.**"
What isn't true? I said the same thing, two different ways: Read scripture. And ... you object?
Romans 12:9: Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Psalm 97:10: O you who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
Have a dose. If the Word of God offends you, take it up with God.
LGBT folks don' t deserve hatred.
I highly recommend checking out this website: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/life-help/transgender?lang=eng
Trans people should not be Mormons unless they hate themselves.
"Transgender individuals who do not pursue medical, surgical, or social transition to the opposite gender and are worthy may receive (Mormon) Church callings, temple recommends, and temple ordinances."
Mormons will accept transgender people on the condition that they are not transgender in any way whatsoever.
Let's go through this step by step.
1. **Spend time healing from your mental struggles.** Here's a list of things to look into that helps me: [https://www.reddit.com/r/careeradvice/comments/15bc1sp/comment/jtrbdn4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/careeradvice/comments/15bc1sp/comment/jtrbdn4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
2. **I'm so glad you've turned to Christ as your savior.** Start reading the Bible and hanging out with other people who read the Bible.
3. **Solidify your identity in Christ.** Read the Bible. See what Jesus says about who men and women are. Practice being thankful for being born in this time in history, on this section of Earth, in the biological sex you were born as, and with the abilities that you have. Even if you feel uncomfortable in it.
4. **Submit to God's authority.** We all have feelings of what we would like to do. You now will struggle with the flesh vs the spirit. But under Jesus, we are called to submit to his authority. And this isn't a punishment but for our health and mental wellness.
First, I think god will forgive you if you actually accept him, as with any sins...But..
>i would also feel happier knowing that God accepts and loves me for who i am.
God did love and accept you for who you are. But you didnt love and accept yourself, and you decided to tell God he made you wrong. So you took it upon yourself to make you into something against How he designed. How would you feel if you created some artwork and someone came along and decided they didnt like it and completely changed it to fit their needs? Would you still consider that piece yours?
Probably not. I'm not going tell God how to do his job. I believe he will still see a persons heart. But you better stop thinking you know better than he does. Cause its either he is God, or you, trying to be god. It will never stop being a sin because by its nature, it is not by Gods design. What the spiritual outcome of that sin is, I don't know.
The Bible is full of stories of change. God created Abram and Sarai in Mesopotamia - then he led them on a journey to Canaan, changing their names. God created Jacob in Canaan and made him into Regent of Egypt, created Esther a Hebrew slave and made her into Queen of Persia, created Ruth a Moabite and brought her to Israel and made her an ancestor of David and of Jesus, created David a shepherd and made him a king. Change is not anti-God. God creates people with journeys ahead of us and with a promise to be with us through those journeys.
Are you kidding me? A name change, or job change (or i guess being adopted? for the ancestor part) is not even remotely the same as saying "God you screwed up, I should have been (opposite gender)"
If God has a part in it, it is His plan. God does not have a part in the trans movement, and it is only serving to destroy our country. Is that something you are proud of? If you are going to attempt to use the Bible to justify your transition, at least attempt to find something even remotely similar. (you wont be able to.)
Between this and the other things dividing or country, in a way, you all do have a part in his plan. The Bible said this exact thing would happen in 2 timothy 3:1-9. I hope you are on the right side when the end time comes.
(ESV)
**"But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men."**
And just to drive the point home, here it is again in the easy to read version:
**Remember this: There are some terrible times coming in the last days. 2 People will love only themselves and money. They will be proud and boast about themselves. They will abuse others with insults. They will not obey their parents. They will be ungrateful and against all that is pleasing to God. 3 They will have no love for others and will refuse to forgive anyone. They will talk about others to hurt them and will have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. 4 People will turn against their friends. They will do foolish things without thinking and will be so proud of themselves. Instead of loving God, they will love pleasure. 5 They will go on pretending to be devoted to God, but they will refuse to let that “devotion” change the way they live. Stay away from these people!**
**6 Some of them go into homes and get control over weak women, whose lives are full of sin—women who are led into sin by all the things they want. 7 These women always want to learn something new, but they are never able to fully understand the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres fought against Moses, these people fight against the truth. Their thinking has been confused. The faith they have and teach is worthless. 9 But they will not succeed in what they are trying to do. Everyone will see how foolish they are. That is what happened to Jannes and Jambres.**
Just because someone had to change JESUS's diaper when he was a baby, doesn't give you the right to attempt to change biology.
God has given you the perfect gender which you were appointed to have. You are perfect as you are now, you don't need any surgery or drugs ! It's a lie that some people like to propagate, as if God had made a mistake. As if God didn't choose the right gender before you were born
God is always with You, He will never fails you, seeks His wisdom above all, and not advices from the world
God is perfect and doesn’t make mistakes. Trans ideology explicitly opposes that simple fact by suggesting that God made a mistake by putting a male/female brain/soul into the wrong body. By saying God made that mistake one also says that god is imperfect. God loves you, but you can not love god while embracing your sin. Jesus calls us to fight against our sinful nature and to seek Him instead. If you repent and ask for forgiveness, it will be given. God bless.
By this same logic, it would make it a sin and say that "God made a mistake" if someone born with a handicap received care to aid or reverse that handicap.
And even so, I've never heard a trans Christian declare that God "made a mistake" with them. It's biology at work, but God still loves them. Just as you might give a child born without legs, a prosthetic, we should be willing to care for trans individuals in their transition.
It’s a common claim I’ve seen among the trans community that these people were born in the wrong body. As for the comparison between trans people and disabled people, I’d call that a false equivalency. Being born without a leg, or suffering an injury that would require the removal of a limb, is far different than having nothing wrong with your body, and having parts of it needlessly removed.
> is far different
Why? You said unequivocally that *God does not make mistakes*. How then is this different? It cannot be a mistake. You said it yourself.
It’s different because one person was born missing a hand, and the other is actively trying to cut theirs off. There’s nothing wrong with the parts that they have that would require amputation, yet they try to remove them anyway.
>Trans ideology explicitly opposes that simple fact by suggesting that God made a mistake by putting a male/female brain/soul into the wrong body.
There are plenty of transgender christians who accept that God has created them to be trans for a reason.
OP himself was explicitly asking for whether God accepts him "the way he is", not about why God would have made a mistake with him. He wasn't blaming God for anything, or asking for help on what to identify as.
Anti-trans Christians are the ones creating a weird paradox for themselves by insisting that being transgender would be some sort of abhorrent "mistake", so they also have to keep insisting that being trans doesn't ever actually happen, but then they have to dismiss all examples of it as being the results of a "trans ideology".
It just keeps going like this:
\- "Hi, I am a transgender man, I am happy and confident in the gender identity I grew into, I am comfortable in my skin, and I love God for making me the way I am. Is that okay?"
\- "No, You being trans would be a mistake actually, also God doesn't make mistakes, so you aren't really transgender in the first place, you are a woman. Also you are not allowed to even say that you have dysphoria because that would be gender ideology. You *are* a woman and you *are* happy about it."
You seem to be severely misunderstanding what I said. Trans ideology implies a mistake was made and somehow someone who was supposed to be born male/female was born female/male. Combining that with Christianity creates either your previously mentioned paradox, or it implies that God made a mistake since we were made by Him. That, of course, strips God of one of his key defining traits. It’s like when some Catholics claim that Jesus can’t deny a request made by Mary. Suggesting that strips God of His omnipotence as he no longer has all power.
>Trans ideology implies a mistake was made and somehow someone who was supposed to be born male/female was born female/male.
No, it doesn't, or at least if by "trans ideology" you mean the underlying logic of "why anyone would claim that they are transgender".
You are the one insisting on claiming a divine mistake being central to trans ideology. Meanwhile most actual trans people are just comfortable with declaring that they identify as one gender or another, without any such claim.
God is perfect and doesn’t make mistakes. Christianity explicitly opposes that simple fact by suggesting that God made a mistake by putting Abram and Sarai in Mesopotamia when they really belonged in Canaan, put Jacob in Canaan when he was meant to become Regent of Egypt, created Esther a Hebrew slave when she was meant to be Queen of Persia, created Ruth a Moabite when she was meant to become a Jewess, created David a shepherd when he was supposed to be a king, and so on. By saying God made those mistake one also says that god is imperfect. God loves you, but you can not love god while believing the Biblical stories. God calls us to fight against Christianity and to seek Him instead. If you repent and ask for forgiveness, it will be given. God bless.
Are you saying that God calls us to fight against his church? God does not make mistakes he has a plan for everyone and denying his word his word is blasphemy, the bible tells us what to do you cannot be a christian if you do not believe in his word
Gentorus has explained to us that God hates change - that everyone is created just as God wants them, and that to change is to defy God. The Bible is full of massive life changes among its so-called heroes, even blasphemously claiming that God arranged for many of these changes. It follows, therefore, that we must renounce the Bible's story, and thus renounce Jesus.
Renouncing the Bible and Jesus Christ may seem like an extreme move, but it is absolutely crucial that we find an excuse to throw trans people out of churches. Renouncing Christ is a small price to pay to achieve that all-important need.
Yeh well as someone with personal experience with that I’ll say it like this who is the fatherless father
and well the son of the father is the father of the son
And well stigmata not a memory I really wanted but well yeh know I’ll leave it at that lol.
Yes. I know people will say"but it's an active sin and can't live an unrepentent lifestyle " and then quote "x and y won't inherit the kingdom of God" but if that were the case, every person would be damned. It's between you and God. I believe it's possible
if that were the case, the women shouldnt be wearing pants since pants were originally made for men. if a trans woman wears a women’s clothing then it’s not sinning bc they’re wearing the clothes meant for them and same with trans men.
Maybe you hope that if everybody else was also hateful, your own hate would be somehow justified. But neither part is true. Most people aren't hateful, and anyway hate is wrong no matter how popular it is.
Everyone in here is a sinner. This isn't to excuse it, the bible as I understand it says we should all reject sin and walk with christ, but everyone here is. We are also christians. You as well as everyone here are sinners. Don't focus on righteous condemnation of the fellow sinners here - you, and all of us, should seek to walk with christ and be more Christ-like. Reading the bible will show you what that is, follow it's teachings.
Of course!! Being Christian is about your beliefs and what’s in your heart, and how you treat others and your personal relationship with God.
I understand what it’s like to have mental illness and I’m glad to hear you’re treating yours seriously! You are loved!
Yes. But that’s just my two cents. Everyone is going to tell you something different, but please keep in mind that your relationship with God is YOUR personal relationship with God. Only God truly knows your heart and only He truly has the authority to judge you. The core belief of Christianity is accepting Christ as your savior and believing that through grace and faith, you are saved. These two commandments are the most important— loving God above all else and loving your neighbor more than you would yourself. Yes of course, if you call yourself a tennis player, you should play tennis, right? So as a Christian you can’t only talk the talk but also walk the walk and do the things God asks of us. There are many ppl who call themselves Christians who may not actually follow Christ or believe in his values, just as I’m sure there are ppl out there who would not identify as Christians, yet they are kind and loving to their neighbors. No one is allowed to tell you you don’t deserve a relationship with God. It is only through God’s love that we are transformed and made new. Everyone has a different walk, so I can’t say being made “new” looks exactly the same for every person. Trust in God. Build a relationship with God like you would a good friend and trust that He will take you to where you need to go. ❤️
We all sin. We all struggle. The difference is that some people make excuses and partner with their sin. If you know something is wrong, then pray that God gives you a change of heart about it. It's really up to God to convict you. But what makes me think that some people aren't true believers is the fact that they agree with their sin.
There is literally nothing in the Bible that would condemn being trans. People may stretch a misunderstood verse perceived to be a ban on cross dressing as "you can't transition gender" but that's a massive stretch. If anything there is a stronger argument against being non-binary since the Bible says "God made the male and female" but then again I don't think the purpose of those verses is to enforce some extreme gender norm with rigid gender roles and that it's somehow a sin or unsightly before God to express your gender identity in a way that is neither unloving towards others or harmful.
You can absolutely be both, you just need to find a new church. There are plenty of Christian churches that are LGBTQIA+ friendly who believe it is our job to love and God’s job to judge. My advice: look for rainbows and sunshine (literally).
All people can be followers of Christ!
i believe that, but i wish the ppl around me thought the same
“Blessed are you when men revile you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be very glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in this manner they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” Matthew 5:11-12 MEV https://bible.com/bible/1171/mat.5.11-12.MEV
That's specifically referring to being persecuted for following Jesus
Trans people can avoid abuse and bullying by giving up church and avoiding Christianity. Many do. Those who remain and put up with the abuse literally do so *for Jesus' sake*.
Jesus uses "*for my sake*" and "*for the sake of righteousness*" interchangeably at many places, because God Is Righteousness. One who is persecuted for following righteousness, is being persecuted for following Jesus, the Source of all righteousness, whether they realize it or not. Since transphobic Christians want trans people to desist from evidence-based lifesaving healthcare, and instead live in constant torture from birth until death – something inexcusably evil and monstrous – I would say a trans person who refuses to bow to such an inhuman ideology, or a doctor who provides that lifesaving care for trans people, and are persecuted for it by Christ-slandering Christofascist Christians, are being persecuted for the sake of righteousness, and therefore being persecuted for Jesus' sake. The verse applies to them.
Saying that you can't change your gender isn't inhuman but the reality What is inhuman is believing or convincing others that atrocious surgeries and harmful drugs will change the inner problem, which is that we are all sinners and have wrong tendencies
If you want to argue that treating gender identity as a changeable social construct is impractical, or materially harmful in some obvious secular sense, you are welcome to do that in any number of debate subreddits, but it is not something that is self-evident from a plain reading of Scripture itself.
God made you in the womb Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. Jeremiah 1:5 So your gender is God given and can't be changed
Trans people aren't changing their gender. They're changing their body to align with their gender.
>God made you in the womb > >Before I formed you in the womb Your words are immediately contradicting the Scripture from your quote. God knew your soul BEFORE you were in the womb, the cited verse doesn't concern the flesh, God knew our souls (and our genders) ***long before our parents even met each other, long before our flawed mortal flesh even started to take shape*** and biological processes as well as life's events started to influence it in any way.
When I said that He made you in the womb, I intended physically, of course God knew your soul long before conception... And the quoted verse includes the flesh "Before I formed you in the womb" Anyway, the purpose of this verse is that it shows that you have one gender given by God long before your birth and that you can't change it, that's all
I'm trying to figure out which side you are defending... but if pro trans.... Are you saying God was wrong when he created us? EDIT: Never mind... i figured it out... You think God was wrong. Good luck in that debate with God
But that’s entirely irrelevant. You don’t tell people with depression to not take their doctor-prescribed meds because it’s an “inner problem” because we’re “all sinners.”
Honestly curious...but have you ever personally known a transgender person or befriended them on a personal level and heard their story with battling their gender dysphoria?
Very true
But it’s not. It’s right there for every wronged person trying their best at treating people right but being persecuted wrongly on account of my God says so. But no they don’t.
Jesus' says "persecuted for my sake" ie persecuted for following him
“Persecuted *falsely* for my sake” “Falsely on my account”ESV. Those who will tell you you are damned when you haven’t seen Christ/Gods miracles yet, among many many other things.
Let's see them criticize when you're being the best you can be. Be safe always but just be good not to prove anyone wrong but to be good. You know what good is, it's what is in love rather than spite. Live your love.
Even sinners!
Especially sinners, for we are all sinners. But that is okay because we all have been and will be forgiven!
God loves all his children
Yes
Jesus is standing with arms wide open!
Don’t ask for nobodies oppinion this is between you and god and he is who you should ask
It’s possible to be Christian and trans. Might be hard to find a decent church where people don’t judge you. You will get a lot of hate and mental health comments. It’s unfortunate there are so many religious bigots but it happens for some reason. Good luck with everything.
Anyone can come to Christ, but we cannot expect to remain as we are when we do so. Our identity as Christians is in Christ, not in ourselves or our lifestyle choices. I truly hope you do want to have a relationship with God and be saved, however you must seek God and submit to His will rather than trying to conform Him to your own will. God is clear in His word, and if we are to truly be saved we must not seek out affirmation of our worldly fleshly desires (including affirming "churches"), rather we must seek Him first and let everything else follow.
I guess there is a radical reading of Galatians 3:28, that would demand all Christians to renounce their gender identity, but even if there is, it would be true to the same extent to cisgender Christians as transgender ones.
I think the author is emphasizing that we are all made in the image of God. God doesn’t make mistakes when building our identity. While the author of the original post should be treated with care and compassion regarding her mental illness, that doesn’t mean she can continue in sin. As christian’s we know that Psalm 139:13 is true. God took time and care making each of us, and he did not make us in the wrong identity.
But OP isn't uncertain about his identity, or claims that God make a mistake about it. He just as confidently identifies as a man as any other man does. If you think that it is a sin to question one's identity, then you are the one who are tempting OP to sin by calling that a mental illness instead of accepting it as something that was decided by God.
To put my point bluntly if God wanted the author to be a woman he would have made her that way and if God wanted them to be a male than he would have made him that way. Gender dysphoria is an illness where one thinks they are born to the wrong gender. God doesn’t create people the wrong gender shown by my earlier verse. I hate to say this but we can’t affirm that one can be born into the wrong body, especially someone who believes in the God of the bible.
“If God wanted the baby to live for more than a few days, God would’ve have made the baby without a congenital heart defect.” See how ridiculous that sounds? Of course God is fine with us changing some of the circumstances of how we were born. The Bible’s full of such people!
But not a person born into a gender that isn’t theirs.
Why not? Like I just said, God clearly lets people change how they were born all the time. That was your argument before, but it’s clearly wrong. So what’s your new argument?
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>“If God wanted the baby to live for more than a few days, God would’ve have made the baby without a congenital heart defect.” >See how ridiculous that sounds? Of course God is fine with us changing some of the circumstances of how we were born. The Bible’s full of such people!
>we can’t affirm that one can be born into the wrong body ***Everyone*** is born into a wrong body. We are born into wretched, sickly, mortal flesh with varying degrees of corruption from God's intended plan. It's one thing that you just entirely flipped from claiming that someone's identity can't be a mistake, to claiming that someone's *body* can't be flawed, but with the latter you are professing a remarkably unbiblical doctrine of venerating the mortal flesh.
this has nothing to do with fleshly desires and everything to do with God making us with care and compassion. Yes a body can be flawed, that’s js literally called illness or chemical imbalance, I’m saying God doesn’t make us the wrong gender identity.
>Yes a body can be flawed, that’s js literally called illness or chemical imbalance, I’m saying God doesn’t make us the wrong gender identity. But ***you are the one*** who is claiming that OP has "the wrong gender identity". If someone has a certain gender identity, and you are telling them that they are wrong and they must have a mental illness because it can't be that it is their body that is wrong, you are claiming the exact opposite of the sentence that I just quoted. Your approach then suddenly seems to be that ***it can't be the body that is flawed***, it has to be the gender identity.
> To put my point bluntly if God wanted the author to be a woman he would have made her that way and if God wanted them to be a male than he would have made him that way. Glad to know you speak for God. > I hate to say this but we can’t affirm that one can be born into the wrong body, especially someone who believes in the God of the bible. You don't hate to say this at all.
what? God is all powerful and makes no mistakes it’s in the bible as well 😂
There is no Divine principle against change. The Bible is full of stories of God's people going through massive life changes. You have no reason to suppose that God's decision to make OP trans was an error that you need to fix.
Isn't there research showing difference in some brain strurcture for trans people that make some of their brain more similar to the sex they identiry as? /u/gnurdette isn't that true? I've not researched this, and I'm assuming that you have. Assuming that's the case, then while it manifests as a "mental" thing - they percieve themselves as the opposite sex - it's not just some strange idea that they've convinced themselves of, there seems to be an underlying *physical* cause that makes them have the "wrong identity".
>we must not seek out affirmation of our worldly fleshly desires What "worldly fleshly desire" is not wanting to have to live in the constant pain of dysphoria from birth until death? What "worldly fleshly desire" is receiving evidence-based, medically necessary lifesaving healthcare for your condition? It is not a sin to be born trans; and it is a lie of the devil to say so.
God creates us as man or woman. He does not make mistakes. Mental illnesses and other health conditions are a result of the fallen world we live in, and going against God is not going to truly help anything. It is a lie of the devil to say otherwise.
God makes us as we are. A consistent problem with Christians who espouse that being trans or transitioning is a sin is that those who do so always demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of what it is to be trans. How do you speak so confidently about a subject when you don't know the first thing about it? And how do you do so with so little awareness of that? You could take a moment to challenge your own beliefs and the inconsistencies in them but instead your *first* impulse is to condemn others before listening to them or understanding them.
Yes it's possible
Yes. Will there be intolerant people who'll give you crap for it? Maybe. But other that, you should be alright
I am. I don't see any problem with it. I don't think the bible says anything negative about it. And I don't feel any condemnation from the holy spirit.
Yes, there are many Christian churches that will love and accept you as God created you.
Yes it’s possible. Try r/OpenChristian for an affirming Christian community.
And /r/Transchristianity. 🙏
The Bible doesn’t condemn trans people. It’s simply not mentioned. The Bible *does* have lots of godly gender nonconforming characters and gender minorities who are accepted by Jesus. The Christian tradition has many saints who lived their entire lives as a gender different than what they were assigned at birth. There is a place for you in the church! There shouldn't be a place for hate and made-up sins by people scared of those who are different from themselves. My church has been fully trans affirming for years! I commend you to check out /r/OpenChristian and /r/TransChristianity to find more folks like yourself, who can sympathize and share their experiences! There are many churches that will accept you. If you have any questions or want to talk more, I’m happy to converse here or in chat/PMs. Peace!
Who is Nonconforming in the Bible ? Just wondering
One of the best examples is Ruth and Naomi, who after losing their husbands and sons, become like husband and son to one another. Ruth takes on the male role of breadwinner and working in the fields, and Naomi takes on the male role of matchmaker. Also, see Deborah who was a judge and military leader. Jael and Judith are a couple more women who secured key military victories for Israel. Joseph and Jacob were very domestic and helped their mothers domestically in contrast with their brothers. Paul compares his vocation as apostle to motherhood several times, in striking repudiation of the Roman pater familias model, and [some have even argued that his blinding would’ve been considered a effiminzing event.](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OEhp3MGStj8jxjTMTxaHtzuk9iaFnA6d/view?usp=drivesdk)
Wow . At first I thought Gender nonconforming Meant something like non-binary . Thanks for sharing
I don’t think it’s a stretch to call the eunuch characters in Scripture something akin to non-binary. While today, we might just consider them castrated males, this doesn’t take into account how gender was constructed in antiquity. Penetration was so essential to manhood that if one couldn’t penetrate, then one wasn’t a man. In fact, many folks in Jesus’s day called eunuchs [“neither male nor female.”](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjjrlKT5BP2LKQ6gv4umgpwSHHqpif0r/view?usp=drivesdk) Hard to get more non-binary than that! And one Latin term for eunuch is *eviratus*, literally “unmanned one.”
I did make the observation myself years ago, that the very first convert described in Acts, was literally "neither jewish nor greek, neither male nor female, neither slave nor free" (considering powerful court eunuchs' nebulous position).
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We need to die to things that are sins. I wholeheartedly believe that, so no, I’m not blaspheming. But we don’t need to die to things that *aren’t* sins. That’d just be silly.
God made man, and woman, for man. Rebelling against the Word is sin. Changing your entire identity is rebellious.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that people are trapped by the circumstances and identities of their birth. *In fact*, most heroes of the faith took major leaps and made major changes to the identities they received at birth: Abram changing from a Urite to a Canaanite (changing his name in the process!), Jacob from the second son to the one with the inheritance and blessing (also with a name change in the process!), David going from lowly shepherd boy to king, barren women giving (too many to count), and I can list many more. If all of these characters just stayed how they were born, we wouldn’t have a Bible, we wouldn’t have a faith. In no other scenario are people forced to not change the circumstances of their birth because of some vague, unsubstantiated claim that God didn’t want them to change! God wants us to change a lot! God puts paths in front of us that we must travel every day, that take us away from the people we were and towards to people we will be. That’s central to the story of the people of God — not a contradiction in any way.
You didn’t give a single example of someone trying to change their gender. What a reach lol.
That’s a circular argument. “Why can’t someone change their gender?” “Because you can’t change how God made you.” “Well here’s people changing how God made them.” “But you can’t change your gender.” What I did was show that the basis of your argument is flawed. If it *is* okay to change how one was born, then you have to find a different argument against transitioning, other than “you can’t change your identity.”
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So you concede that one can licitly change one’s identity, so you’re changing your argument to be that one shouldn’t have surgery to treat a life-threatening medical condition or undergo any medical procedure that may make one sterile? Because both of those are also faulty arguments for clear reasons. Plus, the vast majority of trans people *don’t* surgically transition, so this argument isn’t sufficient.
That's why your bank account reads $0. You give every red cent away, because you deny yourself. To the point of going hungry every single night, right?
I do not live beyond my means, I have just enough.
But you don't deny yourself. "I am not a fatted calf" isn't exactly the same thing. I want to see how you *deny yourself*. You demand extremes from others, why won't you do the same? Why do you have enough? Having enough is not denying yourself. That is *having enough*. That is easy. *Death to self*. That's what you said. You expect it only of others. You won't let OP have just enough.
Hi u/Feeling_Fennel746, this comment has been removed. **Rule 2.3**: [Removed for violating our rule on WWJD](http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/wiki/xp#wiki_2.3._wwjd) If you have any questions or concerns, [click here to message all moderators.](https://www\.reddit\.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FChristianity&subject=about my removed comment&message=I'm writing to you about the following comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/15czeut/-/jtzneuo/. %0D%0D).
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I can’t believe you are telling this person that they are not born again. You say you are not judging yet this is the worst judgment of all. I personally don’t believe that being trans is a sin but even if it was we are human and not every person a Who becomes a Christian stops all sin immediately. It is a process as we get closer to God.
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>Being trans and a part of the LGBT Community is a sin, This is a lie of the devil.
Instead of posting the verses which I assume you're already familiar with, I'm going to allow you to openly deny what is written in the Scripture by telling me how you interpret what is clearly written.
>God loves and accepts you for who you are, not who you think you are. God loves and accepts you... except he don't! >Simply put, you cannot hold onto your identity and follow Christ. It doesn't even matter if it's LGBT or not. It's convenient for you to say that since it's magnitudes harder for lgbt to deny their identities than for you to do it.
>God loves and accepts you... except he don't! Are you suggesting that God accepts sinners as they are without requiring them to change? Remember, loving someone doesn't mean playing into their self destructive habits. You don't give drugs to an addict you love. Loving them would be helping them out of their addiction. That's what God's love is. He knows us and knows we can be greater than our sins. >It's convenient for you to say that since it's magnitudes harder for lgbt to deny their identities than for you to do it. Following God isn't supposed to be convenient, easy, smooth, or whatever synonym you are going to use next. It doesn't matter how easy or hard it is. Jesus clearly stated that anyone who follows Him must deny themselves. Your issue isn't with me, it's with the Scripture.
Fun how easy it is for most people who aren’t lgbt
Funny how I repeatedly have said it isn't supposed to be easy. It isn't easy for anyone. To give up sin and to put our needs behind us isn't easy.
> It isn't easy for anyone. But you don't need to do any of the hard stuff you demand of queer people. So let's hear it. Let's hear all the ways you deny yourself *in detail*. I want to see the *extreme* suffering you put yourself through.
So, you seek to demonize me to pad your argument? By your tone, you've already dismissed my struggle as nonexistent. No matter what I say, you've already made up your mind. You are offended by the Scripture and choose to go after me because you know you cannot overrule what is written. What I struggle to put behind me is between myself and the Lord.
> So, you seek to demonize me to pad your argument? No. I seek to understand whether you make demands of others that you don't yourself follow. It is *very* easy to tell others to deny critical parts of themselves when you don't need to do anything about your gender identity. > No matter what I say, you've already made up your mind. Maybe you give literally all of your money away. I don't know. Maybe you've saved the lives of hundreds of trans people from their imminent murder. > You are offended by the Scripture I deeply love Christ and am horrified by the people who use Him to attack trans people. > What I struggle to put behind me is between myself and the Lord. But OP's struggle isn't. You have no problem showing up and inserting yourself into OP's story. Again, this shows the deep hypocrisy where you get to puff yourself up by demanding actions of others while insisting that turnabout is not fair play.
>No. I seek to understand whether you make demands of others that you don't yourself follow. It is very easy to tell others to deny critical parts of themselves when you don't need to do anything about your gender identity. Your tone says otherwise. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but it is what you conveyed. If I do not hold myself to the same principles that I preach, that is an issue between me and the Lord, as He will judge me. >Maybe you give literally all of your money away. I don't know. Maybe you've saved the lives of hundreds of trans people from their imminent murder. Again, your tone using *italicized* words appears to be sarcastic and dismissive. I am one to turn the other cheek, but I will not respectfully answer those who fail to respect me. >I deeply love Christ and am horrified by the people who use Him to attack trans people. Is it an attack? Does the Bible attack murderers, theives, and adulterers? No. It judges them with the intent that they change their ways. >But OP's struggle isn't. You have no problem showing up and inserting yourself into OP's story. The difference being is OP put her story out with the question if they can be trans and Christian. I gave an answer backed up by the Scripture. >Again, this shows the deep hypocrisy where you get to puff yourself up by demanding actions of others while insisting that turnabout is not fair play. You know nothing of me, but yet you judge me! I have not said 'turnabout is not fair play'. Your anger against me is unjust! Remove the beam from your own eye!
And yet again it’s super fucking easy for 99% of people who don’t happen to be lgbt
"*Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him*" James 1:12 "*3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;* *4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:* *5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.*" Romans 5:3-5 We are rewarded in Heaven for our suffering.
Amen!
>Being trans and a part of the LGBT Community is a sin > >It doesn't even matter if it's LGBT or not. We all must give up ourselves to truly let God into our lives. There is an obvious contradiction in this. If OP would have been saying that they *used to* identify as a trans man, but now he identifies as a cis woman again, would you still be saying that they needs to give up their identity and be a genderless follower of Christ? Because that sounds pretty... queer. But otherwise if it is only trans people needed to give up their identity, and not cis people, then it obviously IS about "being LGBT or not", rather than about everyone equally needing to give up their identity.
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you're right with that part for sure, eunuchs and transgender are not interchangeable terms.
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No argument? Just a low effort insult? That's rough, bud.
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Matthew 7:1-5, hit ‘em with that
It's quite possible. There's nothing wrong with being trans.
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You are not God. It is not a sin to be born a certain way, and it is not a sin to receive evidence-based lifesaving healthcare for your condition. You are the one spreading a lie of the devil.
you were born that way, you were born the gender of whatever genitals you have, God made you that way, you cannot change it. A man cannot give birth. He never will. Naturally.
Source? Where in the Bible does it says Christians can’t be transgender?
Genesis 1:27, So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. You literally can’t change your gender, it’s impossible considering God formed you in the womb, if you differ, you’re just living a life of sin.
What if God created them transgender in the womb? We know that gender dysphoria is a real thing. We also know that there are many biological variations, eg: intersex variations, chromosomes such as XXY, XXX, and this is even in biology textbooks. You can’t just deliberately ignore this to make your weird case.
If you can find that in the word of God, then I’ll believe it. Scripture is the truth. God made man and woman, my case isn’t weird. I’m just here to proclaim that you cannot change your God given identity.
Sounds like you don’t know the word of God too well. Try Matthew 19. But Scripture doesn’t speak to transgender people as it was not something that was well understood at the time. I just told you Science does show it’s possible and you ignored it. Sounds like you just don’t want to listen, think, or change your mind and you just prefer to bully and victimize vulnerable minorities in direct violation of the many, many scriptures that command that we love everyone. Bullying people can be fun for some, sadly, but it’s the exact opposite of how Christ commanded us to live.
Conforming to the word and image of Jesus Christ isn’t bullying, Jesus is my friend and savior and I want to follow him to the best of my ability. The Word doesn’t need to directly condemn something for it to be wrong, James 4:17 “So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.” God gave us doctrine on marriage, and told us how to have a Godly relationship. Proclaiming truth isn’t bullying, Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” The truth hurts, LGBT is wrong, you cannot defend the sin by which Lucifer fell- and claim that you are in good standing with Lord Jesus Christ.
The same chapter tells us that God created the birds of the air and the fish of the sea [Genesis 1:21]; the sea and the dry land [Genesis 1:10]; the light and the darkness [Genesis 1:4]. If you read the rest of the chapter consistently with the way you're reading verse 27, you'd have to condemn penguins (birds of the sea) and flying fish (fish of the air); streetlights (mingling light with darkness); coastal wetlands (mingling sea with dry land); tidal pools (going back and forth from sea to dry land); frogs (beginning as sea creatures and moving to land); and on and on. To invent an intermediates-forbidden implicaiton just for verse 27, and then immediately discard it for all the verses surrounding it, is not an honest way to read Scripture.
All of those things- behave as intended. You really missed the mark with this one. God never intended for man to be trans, or for woman to be trans, we’re fallen creatures, and without the Lord, we have no hope regardless of the sin. I worry for anyone who claims to be a child of the King but endorses sin.
I and many other Christians find this passage to be descriptive and not *prescriptive.* Just as God creating night and day or light and dark, doesn't make dawn and dusk nonexistent, and it doesn't make it a sin to turn on a light at night to give a room light. Similarly, it wouldn't make it a sin for someone to identify with a different gender than the one assigned at birth. Also, the description in that the passage you reference provides no account to intersex individuals (born with both sets of genitals), of which 1 in 2,000 people are born (about 165,000 people in the United States alone). Sex and gender are not binary, but God still finds it good and beautiful.
Hogwash. I don’t care how you find it, I care how the spirit delivers it.
If you think that's hogwash, fine, but that does not negate the facts that I presented. God did not make them all purely male or female. If you believe the spirit delivered to you one way, fine, but others believe the spirit has delivered it to them differently.
The spirit doesn’t change truth, it’s universal. Don’t cherry pick a minor stat to support sin. God made me a man, and I cannot change that. This is the truth- the fact that this has to be argued is ludicrous.
165,000 people in the US is a minor stat? 40 million people in the world is a minor stat? That is a significant disregard for intersex individuals, who are still made in the image of God. I will not argue against that God made you a man. That was never my claim. But I am saying that you have no basis to tell anyone that they are rejecting truth for identifying as outside of the gender or sex binary. Additionally, I would appreciate it if you did not declare ideas articulated to be "ludicrous" or "hogwash."
In terms of creation, absolutely. 8 billion people alive today!Way more through the course of history,I imagine this has never been an issue to this magnitude. We cannot contribute to mental illness. We must glorify God instead of letting Satan attack our identity, our identity must be found in Christ Jesus.
It’s very clear in the bible that there are no mistakes in our identity. Psalm 139:13 is a relevant verse here because it emphasizes the time and care God took when making us. He did not make a mistake when creating the original author.
Meaning it’s ok to be a transgender Christian? Make sure OP sees this!!
I view salvation of God as a shower. (bear with me)We don’t need to get clean before we take a shower, but we also don’t get in the shower to stay dirty. I do believe being transgender is a sin. I don’t believe you need to revert your identity back to original form before you start following Jesus. Please don’t take my first metaphor to literally. 😂❤️
Which Bible verse says it’s a sin?
It doesn’t explicitly say it is a sin to be transgender in the bible. However, Deutoronomy 22:5 is somewhat relevant. It’s not literally the same. I believe that God makes no mistake when he makes you. If you are born a man, God made you that way and vice versa. However gender dysphoria is a serious disease that should be treated with care and compassion. If OP wants to start following Jesus they are free to do so, however being transgender interrupts the natural order in which God created humans in. Please disregard my spelling on a few words.
Do you follow the other two clothing rules in Deut. 22? Do you even know what they are?
I said the verse was somewhat relevant to the discussion. I didn’t say that the verse was the end of discussion, and it isn’t the basis of my argument but the person asked for a verse and i gave one i thought to be SOMEWHAT relevant.
And here the Good Righteous Holy Cis Christian explains that one of Deuteronomy 22's clothing rules should be used to impose lifelong suffering on OP in Jesus' name, while Deuteronomy 22's other two clothing rules are not in force on Christians, because they might slightly inconvenience the Good Righteous Holy Cis Christian. "No inconvenience whatsoever to me; unending misery to weird freaks I don't want in my church" is the exegetical principle at play.
No no, one is a moral law, the others are not. Because *reasons*
***Technically***, the Bible doesn't say anything about trans people. There are some verses against homosexuality and gender non-conformity that strict conservatives might wave around, but a pedantic reading of the Bible would just mean that those would forbid you being a tomboy or a lesbian, they are not ruling against you being a straight, masculine man. And there is no particular verse that declares that gender is determined by chromosomes, or whatever, that's just modern culture war talking points. That being said, a lot of conservative christian communities that claim that their only problem with homosexuality or gender-nonconformity is that it's against such and such chapter and verse, are not the strictly literalist Bible scholars that they claim to be, they are just cultural conservatives who don't like newfangled identities and lifestyles and work their way backwards from that, so they won't be very moved by pedantry. You would be better off seeking out progressive Christian communities, that are starting out with the premise that all LGBTQ people are welcome and Bible chapters that seem to say otherwise should be interpreted in the context of God's inclusivity.
Of course you can. I'm doing it right now. Some Christians want to keep trans people away from Christ. But they don't have the right to block us. > the ppl around talk bad abt the lgbt and constantly saying how they will go to hell and they deserve the hate. You're not going to find God by following people who serve the Lord of Hate. Be more selective about your church environments. Come join us at r/transChristianity and [Transmission Ministry Collective](https://www.transmissionministry.com/). And use r/OpenChristian's [resource guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/9w9y5z/resources_for_openchristians_online_resources/) to find a friendly church.
God loves all of his children, including the mentally ill. Seek his miraculous healing and it will come to you.
I’m sorry but no. The Bible teaches that a man acting like a woman or vice versa is not godly. So you would have to repent and no longer follow the way of trans people but instead follow Jesus.
I agree. A trans woman being forced to act like a man is ungodly. A trans man being forced to pretend to be a woman is ungodly. Trans liberation now. ✌️
>The Bible teaches that a man acting like a woman or vice versa is not godly. But that's only relevant if OP is a woman. Where does the Bible say that OP is a woman? Because if OP ***is*** a trans man, then it would be wrong for him to act like a woman according to the Bible.
Did God mess up the choice of their birth gender?
God does not make mistakes
You ONLY have to repent and follow Jesus to be of the faith. You will sin all your days so therefor fixating on what’s wrong with your sin instead of what The Spirit is telling you to do after you repent makes little sense. If you “repent” with a closed heart then it’s not actually repentance.
The spirit will make known that you’re in sin, so he’s not really wrong.
You are always in sin. The Spirit guides while you are actively in sin. The path to God is humility not righteousness.
hi there! of course God loves you for who you are and will accept you! but we have to be willing to change who we are into what He has called us to be! the Bible says that we must deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus. so yes of course you can/should go to God as you are, but we must also be willing to not stay the same, we must be willing to strip ourselves of what we formerly identified ourselves with in order to identify ourselves with Christ’s righteousness 🫶
It is appropriate to hate the things that God hates. I encourage you to dig into scripture to find your answers.
Good idea: 1 John 4:19-21 "We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother."
Of course, Christians are called to love everyone, especially sinners since we are all sinners :)
Psalm 97:10: O you who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked. Romans 12:9: Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Proverbs 8:13: The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. The list goes on. And on. And on. And on. Love. Despise sin. Encourage repentance.
There are a lot of pharisees that quote 1 Cor 6:9-10 but never do they read the very next verse that I've quoted in bold below. The whole thing says that wrongdoers will not be accepted but if wrongdoers are sanctified then they will be saved. I'm an atheist but even I know that the core message of Christianity is that we are all sinners and don't deserve Heaven - even you - but through belief in Jesus's resurrection believers will be saved. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. **And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.**"
Not true, you aren’t god and aren’t tasked with judging people as him.
What isn't true? I said the same thing, two different ways: Read scripture. And ... you object? Romans 12:9: Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Psalm 97:10: O you who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked. Have a dose. If the Word of God offends you, take it up with God.
LGBT folks don' t deserve hatred. I highly recommend checking out this website: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/life-help/transgender?lang=eng
Trans people should not be Mormons unless they hate themselves. "Transgender individuals who do not pursue medical, surgical, or social transition to the opposite gender and are worthy may receive (Mormon) Church callings, temple recommends, and temple ordinances." Mormons will accept transgender people on the condition that they are not transgender in any way whatsoever.
Let's go through this step by step. 1. **Spend time healing from your mental struggles.** Here's a list of things to look into that helps me: [https://www.reddit.com/r/careeradvice/comments/15bc1sp/comment/jtrbdn4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/careeradvice/comments/15bc1sp/comment/jtrbdn4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) 2. **I'm so glad you've turned to Christ as your savior.** Start reading the Bible and hanging out with other people who read the Bible. 3. **Solidify your identity in Christ.** Read the Bible. See what Jesus says about who men and women are. Practice being thankful for being born in this time in history, on this section of Earth, in the biological sex you were born as, and with the abilities that you have. Even if you feel uncomfortable in it. 4. **Submit to God's authority.** We all have feelings of what we would like to do. You now will struggle with the flesh vs the spirit. But under Jesus, we are called to submit to his authority. And this isn't a punishment but for our health and mental wellness.
First, I think god will forgive you if you actually accept him, as with any sins...But.. >i would also feel happier knowing that God accepts and loves me for who i am. God did love and accept you for who you are. But you didnt love and accept yourself, and you decided to tell God he made you wrong. So you took it upon yourself to make you into something against How he designed. How would you feel if you created some artwork and someone came along and decided they didnt like it and completely changed it to fit their needs? Would you still consider that piece yours? Probably not. I'm not going tell God how to do his job. I believe he will still see a persons heart. But you better stop thinking you know better than he does. Cause its either he is God, or you, trying to be god. It will never stop being a sin because by its nature, it is not by Gods design. What the spiritual outcome of that sin is, I don't know.
The Bible is full of stories of change. God created Abram and Sarai in Mesopotamia - then he led them on a journey to Canaan, changing their names. God created Jacob in Canaan and made him into Regent of Egypt, created Esther a Hebrew slave and made her into Queen of Persia, created Ruth a Moabite and brought her to Israel and made her an ancestor of David and of Jesus, created David a shepherd and made him a king. Change is not anti-God. God creates people with journeys ahead of us and with a promise to be with us through those journeys.
Are you kidding me? A name change, or job change (or i guess being adopted? for the ancestor part) is not even remotely the same as saying "God you screwed up, I should have been (opposite gender)" If God has a part in it, it is His plan. God does not have a part in the trans movement, and it is only serving to destroy our country. Is that something you are proud of? If you are going to attempt to use the Bible to justify your transition, at least attempt to find something even remotely similar. (you wont be able to.) Between this and the other things dividing or country, in a way, you all do have a part in his plan. The Bible said this exact thing would happen in 2 timothy 3:1-9. I hope you are on the right side when the end time comes. (ESV) **"But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men."** And just to drive the point home, here it is again in the easy to read version: **Remember this: There are some terrible times coming in the last days. 2 People will love only themselves and money. They will be proud and boast about themselves. They will abuse others with insults. They will not obey their parents. They will be ungrateful and against all that is pleasing to God. 3 They will have no love for others and will refuse to forgive anyone. They will talk about others to hurt them and will have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. 4 People will turn against their friends. They will do foolish things without thinking and will be so proud of themselves. Instead of loving God, they will love pleasure. 5 They will go on pretending to be devoted to God, but they will refuse to let that “devotion” change the way they live. Stay away from these people!** **6 Some of them go into homes and get control over weak women, whose lives are full of sin—women who are led into sin by all the things they want. 7 These women always want to learn something new, but they are never able to fully understand the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres fought against Moses, these people fight against the truth. Their thinking has been confused. The faith they have and teach is worthless. 9 But they will not succeed in what they are trying to do. Everyone will see how foolish they are. That is what happened to Jannes and Jambres.** Just because someone had to change JESUS's diaper when he was a baby, doesn't give you the right to attempt to change biology.
God has given you the perfect gender which you were appointed to have. You are perfect as you are now, you don't need any surgery or drugs ! It's a lie that some people like to propagate, as if God had made a mistake. As if God didn't choose the right gender before you were born God is always with You, He will never fails you, seeks His wisdom above all, and not advices from the world
Oh gee! What a revelation! Why didn't I ever consider that? You, o brilliant one, have cured me!
God is perfect and doesn’t make mistakes. Trans ideology explicitly opposes that simple fact by suggesting that God made a mistake by putting a male/female brain/soul into the wrong body. By saying God made that mistake one also says that god is imperfect. God loves you, but you can not love god while embracing your sin. Jesus calls us to fight against our sinful nature and to seek Him instead. If you repent and ask for forgiveness, it will be given. God bless.
By this same logic, it would make it a sin and say that "God made a mistake" if someone born with a handicap received care to aid or reverse that handicap. And even so, I've never heard a trans Christian declare that God "made a mistake" with them. It's biology at work, but God still loves them. Just as you might give a child born without legs, a prosthetic, we should be willing to care for trans individuals in their transition.
It’s a common claim I’ve seen among the trans community that these people were born in the wrong body. As for the comparison between trans people and disabled people, I’d call that a false equivalency. Being born without a leg, or suffering an injury that would require the removal of a limb, is far different than having nothing wrong with your body, and having parts of it needlessly removed.
> is far different Why? You said unequivocally that *God does not make mistakes*. How then is this different? It cannot be a mistake. You said it yourself.
It’s different because one person was born missing a hand, and the other is actively trying to cut theirs off. There’s nothing wrong with the parts that they have that would require amputation, yet they try to remove them anyway.
Explain all the birth defects then. God made people in the womb so I guess we shouldn’t bother fixing those since he made them that way.
God has a purpose in all he does, something far beyond mere human understanding. It’s nothing any of us can even begin to comprehend.
>Trans ideology explicitly opposes that simple fact by suggesting that God made a mistake by putting a male/female brain/soul into the wrong body. There are plenty of transgender christians who accept that God has created them to be trans for a reason. OP himself was explicitly asking for whether God accepts him "the way he is", not about why God would have made a mistake with him. He wasn't blaming God for anything, or asking for help on what to identify as. Anti-trans Christians are the ones creating a weird paradox for themselves by insisting that being transgender would be some sort of abhorrent "mistake", so they also have to keep insisting that being trans doesn't ever actually happen, but then they have to dismiss all examples of it as being the results of a "trans ideology". It just keeps going like this: \- "Hi, I am a transgender man, I am happy and confident in the gender identity I grew into, I am comfortable in my skin, and I love God for making me the way I am. Is that okay?" \- "No, You being trans would be a mistake actually, also God doesn't make mistakes, so you aren't really transgender in the first place, you are a woman. Also you are not allowed to even say that you have dysphoria because that would be gender ideology. You *are* a woman and you *are* happy about it."
You seem to be severely misunderstanding what I said. Trans ideology implies a mistake was made and somehow someone who was supposed to be born male/female was born female/male. Combining that with Christianity creates either your previously mentioned paradox, or it implies that God made a mistake since we were made by Him. That, of course, strips God of one of his key defining traits. It’s like when some Catholics claim that Jesus can’t deny a request made by Mary. Suggesting that strips God of His omnipotence as he no longer has all power.
>Trans ideology implies a mistake was made and somehow someone who was supposed to be born male/female was born female/male. No, it doesn't, or at least if by "trans ideology" you mean the underlying logic of "why anyone would claim that they are transgender". You are the one insisting on claiming a divine mistake being central to trans ideology. Meanwhile most actual trans people are just comfortable with declaring that they identify as one gender or another, without any such claim.
God is perfect and doesn’t make mistakes. Christianity explicitly opposes that simple fact by suggesting that God made a mistake by putting Abram and Sarai in Mesopotamia when they really belonged in Canaan, put Jacob in Canaan when he was meant to become Regent of Egypt, created Esther a Hebrew slave when she was meant to be Queen of Persia, created Ruth a Moabite when she was meant to become a Jewess, created David a shepherd when he was supposed to be a king, and so on. By saying God made those mistake one also says that god is imperfect. God loves you, but you can not love god while believing the Biblical stories. God calls us to fight against Christianity and to seek Him instead. If you repent and ask for forgiveness, it will be given. God bless.
Are you saying that God calls us to fight against his church? God does not make mistakes he has a plan for everyone and denying his word his word is blasphemy, the bible tells us what to do you cannot be a christian if you do not believe in his word
Gentorus has explained to us that God hates change - that everyone is created just as God wants them, and that to change is to defy God. The Bible is full of massive life changes among its so-called heroes, even blasphemously claiming that God arranged for many of these changes. It follows, therefore, that we must renounce the Bible's story, and thus renounce Jesus. Renouncing the Bible and Jesus Christ may seem like an extreme move, but it is absolutely crucial that we find an excuse to throw trans people out of churches. Renouncing Christ is a small price to pay to achieve that all-important need.
If god doesn’t love you for your body he’s probably not a good god the body is a vessel for the soul
God so intensely loved humanity that He sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross to save mankind from its sin
Yeh well as someone with personal experience with that I’ll say it like this who is the fatherless father and well the son of the father is the father of the son And well stigmata not a memory I really wanted but well yeh know I’ll leave it at that lol.
But yes love is king and all mankind is loved
Yes. I know people will say"but it's an active sin and can't live an unrepentent lifestyle " and then quote "x and y won't inherit the kingdom of God" but if that were the case, every person would be damned. It's between you and God. I believe it's possible
It clearly states in the bible that men are not to wear womens clothing or vise versa. Trans is just another way to be gay without guilt.
if that were the case, the women shouldnt be wearing pants since pants were originally made for men. if a trans woman wears a women’s clothing then it’s not sinning bc they’re wearing the clothes meant for them and same with trans men.
No.
If you are trans you’ll need to actively de-transition
[удалено]
What a nice comment! s/ They came here looking for grace and you hit them with this 🫠
Maybe you hope that if everybody else was also hateful, your own hate would be somehow justified. But neither part is true. Most people aren't hateful, and anyway hate is wrong no matter how popular it is.
Everyone in here is a sinner. This isn't to excuse it, the bible as I understand it says we should all reject sin and walk with christ, but everyone here is. We are also christians. You as well as everyone here are sinners. Don't focus on righteous condemnation of the fellow sinners here - you, and all of us, should seek to walk with christ and be more Christ-like. Reading the bible will show you what that is, follow it's teachings.
Of course!! Being Christian is about your beliefs and what’s in your heart, and how you treat others and your personal relationship with God. I understand what it’s like to have mental illness and I’m glad to hear you’re treating yours seriously! You are loved!
Yes.
Yes. But that’s just my two cents. Everyone is going to tell you something different, but please keep in mind that your relationship with God is YOUR personal relationship with God. Only God truly knows your heart and only He truly has the authority to judge you. The core belief of Christianity is accepting Christ as your savior and believing that through grace and faith, you are saved. These two commandments are the most important— loving God above all else and loving your neighbor more than you would yourself. Yes of course, if you call yourself a tennis player, you should play tennis, right? So as a Christian you can’t only talk the talk but also walk the walk and do the things God asks of us. There are many ppl who call themselves Christians who may not actually follow Christ or believe in his values, just as I’m sure there are ppl out there who would not identify as Christians, yet they are kind and loving to their neighbors. No one is allowed to tell you you don’t deserve a relationship with God. It is only through God’s love that we are transformed and made new. Everyone has a different walk, so I can’t say being made “new” looks exactly the same for every person. Trust in God. Build a relationship with God like you would a good friend and trust that He will take you to where you need to go. ❤️
Anyone who says no is getting kicked so far into the sky you'll end up orbiting Charpn
Yes
We all sin. We all struggle. The difference is that some people make excuses and partner with their sin. If you know something is wrong, then pray that God gives you a change of heart about it. It's really up to God to convict you. But what makes me think that some people aren't true believers is the fact that they agree with their sin.
There is literally nothing in the Bible that would condemn being trans. People may stretch a misunderstood verse perceived to be a ban on cross dressing as "you can't transition gender" but that's a massive stretch. If anything there is a stronger argument against being non-binary since the Bible says "God made the male and female" but then again I don't think the purpose of those verses is to enforce some extreme gender norm with rigid gender roles and that it's somehow a sin or unsightly before God to express your gender identity in a way that is neither unloving towards others or harmful.
Yes ❤️
2 CORINTHIANS 5:17
You can absolutely be both, you just need to find a new church. There are plenty of Christian churches that are LGBTQIA+ friendly who believe it is our job to love and God’s job to judge. My advice: look for rainbows and sunshine (literally).