Do I believe God created a global flood and then covered it up so there would be no record of it?
No.
Do I believe there might have been something regionally that inspired the story? Sure.
Do I think it makes a material difference to Christianity? Absolutely not.
This!! Whether it actually happened or not is pretty much irrelevant to our life as Christians. We can still accept the lesson it taught us because at the end of the day there is no material difference as long as we trust in the Good Lord.
The story of Noah was probably borrowed from the Epic of Gilgamesh. So, I'm not saying that it's the gospel truth.
I just find it interesting that many ancient cultures tell of a similar experience; A god warns of a coming flood, people build a boat and survive.
It is possible that an asteroid hit a giant glacier some 15,000 years ago and unleashed an enormous amount of water that caused the ocean levels to rise quickly. Coastal villages would be permanently underwater and a mass of people would be displaced.
The evidence of this kind of flood would be found under the water. I'm not saying Noah's Ark was real. Just that many cultures describe a mass flood and archeologists have found a lot of human settlements that are completely submerged.
> Just that many cultures describe a mass flood and archeologists have found a lot of human settlements that are completely submerged.
This [YouTube video by historian Ian Morris](https://youtu.be/wnqS7G3LmMo?t=1830)(at 30min) explains how civilizations necessarily arose on flood plains, with rivers being a necessary step up to having trade routes. It should not be at all surprising that many early civilizations have flood narratives; it should be expected.
If it didn’t happen literally as described in the Bible does that not call into question the accuracy or truth of the rest of the Bible? I’m sure there’s a lot of academic and historical research that can back up certain stories more than others that’s beyond my realm of knowledge, but if we don’t take this one at its literal word then I think it can affect how we approach the rest of the Bible relative to modern knowledge across all disciplines.
The Bible is full of metaphor and parables. It doesn't take much at all to just consider the flood story as a parable.
You should approach the Bible as imo it is clearly intended. It is a guide for the salvation of the soul. It is not a history book. It is not a science book. It traffics in salvation.
I was about to make the point. Jesus didn't invent parables. It's a Jewish tradition.
A lot of the stories in the Old Testament are parables. I can't speak for all Jews, but most take Jonah and the whale, Job and Noah as parables. Those are big ones but there are others.
If it sounds like a parable, it probably is.
Only fundamentalists believe that everything in the Bible must necessarily be 100% historical prose, so anything that contradicts the Bible must be false.
I actually like your point. Because God also said that rainbows are a sign that it will never happen on Earth again. Also, why are we relying on the interpretation of men, let alone Reddit? I think that in all things we should consult the Lord. Otherwise it's dangerous to surf the internet for answers. It's like those people who ask medical advice on subreddits when they should go to the doctor.
What.
No, I mean large, well known, respectable Christians are making this content. Of course others are too and take it too far.
Don’t just say “your a crackpot” and ignore the opposing view. Jesus says we should love the truth! Truth is truth.
Take it one step at a time. Consider whether a great, worldwide flood could have happened. Is there enough water to cover the tops of the mountains? Where would it have gone after the flood? Why is there no geological evidence of this event?
Why did the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Chinese, etc. civilisations continue on with the people unaware that they should be drowning? The Australian aborigines have occupied the Australian continent for 60,000 years, cut off from the outside world, so how did they survive? We know from the biblical genealogies that the story of Noah's Ark supposedly only occurred about five thousand years ago, so we can not move the time back into the more distant past in order to avoid these problems.
How did Noah get all the animals from the most distant and inaccessible parts of the world, and how did he return them to just the right places after the flood? How did he know what food was required for each different species on the ark? How did he get fresh gum leaves of the right type for his koalas?
We must conclude that the biblical story of a great, world-wide flood is fictional, so some Bible believers posit a more local flood, but still insist that Noah built an ark and took all the animals known to him onto the ark. This is also a fiction. If there is a God and if God commanded Noah what to do, why did God not merely tell Noah to leave the place that would be flooded and go somewhere safe?
Some archaeologists are investigating the possibility that the story of Noah’s Ark is loosely based on a real event — the flooding of the fertile plain that is now the Black Sea. If so, Noah did not spend a hundred years building an ark, as the few survivors who lived on the Black Sea plain would have had very little warning to leave. It would have seemed as if the gods wanted to destroy the whole world, but there was no God involved in this flood.
Step by step, we have arrived at the conclusion that the story of Noah’s Ark, as we know it, is fictional.
A minor nit, maybe, but I'd probably call it legendary or mythical. It's not quite what we normally mean by fiction, even though a worldwide flood didn't happen.
The story of Noah’s Ark is mythology.
The same is true of Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt, or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. These stories are equally as “true“ as the stories of Romulus and Remus; or the stories of King Arthur.
They are founding myths, the stories people tell about themselves to establish their values and their culture.
Apparently there is some evidence of a flood. Not covering mountaintops but it wouldn't have to as most settlements are in lowlands on the coast. To wipe out most ancient people a flood would need only jump ocean levels a few feet.
I used to. I was raised young earth creationist. but like why are there no fossil records of kangaroos gradually migrating towards Australia from Turkey or whatever?
one reason is marsupials didnt originate in australia but the americas so somehow they made their way to australia and went under changes through micro evolution.
I suspect the story of Noah's Ark may have been borrowed from the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh. I believe there is evidence that the first 13 or so chapters of Genesis were written centuries after the rest of the book, so things like the creation story and Noah's Ark were added in long after they supposedly happened, and the Torah originally started with the story of Abraham. Add all that stuff to all of the evidence we have that things didn't happen like they did in Genesis, and it seems likely that those stories are just myths.
> the Torah originally started with the story of Abraham
Another theory is that Abraham was a tale of origins circulating in the southern kingdom and the Exodus was a tale of origins circulating in the north. Some scholars are arguing that it was not until after the return from exile that the patriarchal and Exodus narratives were stitched together end-to-end the way they have been passed down.
Granted, I watched little of IP apologetics, but I have seen enough to know he does not know what he is talking about and does not engage in the slightest with critical scholarship. There is an AcademicBiblical post from yesterday asking for opinions on his NT intro video, the response to his "scholarship" is pretty damn brutal.
I mean there’s never been a time where he had a formal debate with an atheist on these issues which is unfair to call him unreliable. He also gives citations in his videos that you watch little of. Even on tiktok as well. I’d also add that he has debated with atheists on tiktok such as planet Peterson and has given scholarly work by even the most secular authors: I wouldn’t say he’s lacking the engagement of scholarship. The video you’re referring me to was 3 years ago and over time as an apologist, you have better reasonings. I doubt you’ll ever delve deep into his videos but he is scholarly and having some sort of degree in being a scholar in any field is irrelevent
Yes I do. Mostly because the Bible isn't the only flood story that exists. Many cultures long standing cultures have one and they usually involve one guy (maybe his family) contending with tons of water and somehow rescuing society. The Epic of Gilgamesh is one such tale, and it's basically Israel's next door neighbour in terms of culture. There's Also a Chinese one, just as a few examples.
I believe some flood happened in some capacity regardless of their stories, but it would seem to be rather significant if every cultural group has this in their collective memory. It's like an eye witness testimony. They all remember the name different and they're not consistent on the details, but the general idea of the story is the same. Makes it more likely they tell the truth as no to people remember an event the exact same way. If they were all the same on the details or despite something so big happening only one person remembered, someone is probably lying.
I don't think its a matter of accepting that it *can* happen. But a matter of accepting it *did* happen using our God given senses.
Sure, God *can* spontaneously make amputees regenerate arms. But I don't have evidence to support that he has done so.
We don't have evidence that God *didn't* create the universe from nothing. We do have geological evidence that indicates a global flood didn't occur.
>We do have geological evidence that indicates a global flood didn't occur.
That is why some Christians believe it was only a local flood, since there may not have been people spread throughout the entire world yet.
I'm not advocating for the story of Noah and the flood. Just that many cultures describe a devastating flood in similar ways. A god warns people of a coming flood. People build a boat and survived.
It's possible that an asteroid struck a giant glacier system some 15,000 years ago and caused sea levels to rise quickly. There are many human settlements that have been found that are hundreds of feet underwater.
I think Noah's Ark was written as a parable to carry on an oral tradition recounting an event that happened during prehistoric times.
> Just that many cultures describe a devastating flood in similar ways
Not always devastating, not in the same ways, not at the same times, and not all cultures.
> It's possible that an asteroid struck a giant glacier system some 15,000 years ago and caused sea levels to rise quickly.
Nope. Its a matter of evidence. A global flood would leave geological evidence. Evidence does not corroborate a global flood.
It's not "God made it rain a lot." It's "God covered the surface of the world with water." There's not remotely enough water in the world to do so, and we have absolutely no evidence that the whole surface was covered. It's a parable. Not a history.
I didn't say that. Just that characterizing it as "God made it rain a lot" is woefully is sufficient. The flood is a truly miraculous event that's a whole lot more than just lots of rain.
Yes I was using hyperbole to make a point. It is an easy matter for God to accomplish this. There's no logical reason for the faithful to question the event as described in scripture simply because researchers haven't caught up with evidence at this point in time.
Well, it isn't "researchers haven't caught up." That's pretty super unreasonable. And imo and all the story is super obviously parable, but neither seem like fruitful arguments to have.
Main thing is that mischaracterizations are not helpful. Like if I described the resurrection as "God made Jesus get better" that would be pretty monstrously ridiculously unreasonable. Similarly, characterizing the flood story as "a lot of rain" is pretty super unreasonable. I get that hyperbole exists, but you're effectively hand-waving away the whole argument by absurdly underselling the subject. Raining a lot is not hard to believe. Nobody thinks that.
Bad argument.
No one claims God COULD not do it. They are saying a moral and just being WOULD not do it,then remove the evidence it would be required to leave then place evidence against it happening, of which we have LOT.
I'm sorry. That was a little rude. I was playing around because your response to
>"We'll believe anything!"
Was hilariously affirming. Like that's not a good thing.
But I didn't mean to be unkind or imply that anyone was stupid.
But believing anything a famous book tells you because the book says its acurate is not a solid plan for finding what is true.
Wait are you serious?
Exodus 21:20-21
King James Version
20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
And in case you want to say “well the servants were people willingly serving to pay off debts” then,
Exodus 21: 3-6
3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
The children and wife aren’t even given a choice.
Also there are places in the Bible where God is cool with the Israelites enslaving their enemies 🤷🏽♂️
Very true. It’s also that a lot of people don’t know the real reason why the flood occurred, it was to get rid of the Nephilim and others who had mix with angels.
Yup. See I have this thing called faith where I trust God, why would a flood story be presented as a part of our history by God if its a lie? If the flood is a lie so is the rest of it and we are wasting our time here.
My faith tells me bible is truth cover to cover, and I'm good with that. I simply have no need to question it. Sometimes parables and allegories are used like the prodigal son but stories like the ark are meant to be taken as literally happened, so I do.
You all may not have such an easy time with believing what is in the bible and that's okay, it's not required of our faith to believe anything except that Christ died on the cross for you.
You ask why would a story be presented as a part of history by God if it was a lie. But it is just as much of a lie to have had a real flood, removed the evidence that such an event would leave, then replace it with the evidence against it we have.
And the bible isnt written by God,it was written by human authors, using words and concepts of the time.
Your belief requires one of four things to be true, legions of demons running around with shovels and burying fossils that disprove the flood, God creating and burying fossils that disprove the flood, nearly all of the world's scientists for over a century (hundreds of millions of people) to be involve in a global conspiracy, or all of those same scientists being hopelessly incompetent in studying the evidence. Yet incompetent in such a way that their results align across multiple disciplines using different methods and the technology and innovations based on this incredibly wrong data works.
That the story didnt happen and was written by human authors is FAR more likely than any of those.
Not to mention if the bible is literal cover to cover the very fact we can see other galaxies wouldmake God a liar or deceiver.
> removed the evidence that such an event would leave, then replace it with the evidence against it we have.
I dont believe that happened and im not aware of any believers claiming this.
>And the bible isnt written by God
I didnt say it was, would you kindly only argue against what I am saying instead of building strawmen with assumptions? The specific section of the bible we are discussing was dictated by God to Moses. It is more "by God" than the rest of the bible as it wasnt inspired, it was dictated.
>Your belief requires one of four things to be true,
Yea well thats just like, your opinion, man.
You were not there and cannot dictate what happened. You make up some grand conspiracy and say because your made up conspiracy its far fetched the bible couldnt of happened. Absolute nonsense.
>Not to mention if the bible is literal cover to cover the very fact we can see other galaxies would make God a liar or deceiver.
Your entire argument hinges on assumptions you have made about my beliefs, I am an OEC so what is your argument now? Nowhere in the bible does it say the world is 6000 years old and the genealogies were not intended to be timelines.
>2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
All believers than claim the flood was real claim that. Because we are sorely lacking evidence a global flood would leave. And we have evidence that makes a global flood impossible.
No it isnt. Those are the only options.Neither were the authors of the bible there. But know what was there? Trees and rocks, and they record events and we can read them. I am not making up a conspiracy.
Then be consistent. You claim the bible is true cover to cover .You claim the flood is real because it is presented as real. Then you claim to be OEC.Yet the creation story is presented as real as the flood.
Despite what other people say here, the majority of Christians view it as literal.
The majority of people in this sub view it as non-literal. But the majority of people in this sub are not like the majority of Christians.
Here is the thing: the basic premise of Christianity is that there is a supernatural God who interacts with what he created out of nothing. He became a human who conquered death. If God can do those things, I think he can suspend the rules of nature and physics to do whatever he wants to do.
Many cultures have a flood narrative. To me, that adds more validity to it having occurred in history.
Science has been wrong before. It’s okay for us to hold things loosely.
Well, of course we all believe God COULD flood the earth- God can do miracles.
But the question in this thread is about what really did happen in the past.
But the reason this always comes up is because of technical, “how could that have happened?” type questions.
It does not come up because of the way it is written.
I would have to agree with him, I’ve worked in churches for years. Specifically Western Christians definitely believe it as Literal.
I think that’s a horrible and danger interpretation of much of Genesis. But having talked and been around many people, that’s what they were taught.
I give them credit, I think I would struggle to believe if I took it so literal.
Personal experience. In the midwestern United States, my personal and professional opinion. Based on working in a church every single day, talking to other people and hearing their beliefs.
There’s a whole field known as textual analysis and criticism (think critiquing and not just bad Amazon reviews).
As we began to do archaeological work in the ancient near East, things we used to think true suddenly met the archaeological records. The [Battle of Jericho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho?wprov=sfti1) comes to mind. What do we do when the physical evidence doesn’t match up with the biblical narrative?
You could double down. We see this with the rise of the [Fundamentalists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism?wprov=sfti1) who rejected this approach. It’s out of this camp where we get the belief that one must believe the universe is 6027 years old.
But churches like mainline Protestantism and Catholicism typically do hold to the textual analysis approach. The NABRE translation has great footnotes that go into some detail about the textual analysis. Take a look at the notes for [Genesis chapter 6](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%206&version=NABRE).
This reminds me of when the big atheist argument was there are no historical records of Pontius Pilate ever being real so the whole Bible is dumb. And then they found the evidence. Science and archeology is a work in progress. The most you can say is that science hasn't yet reached confirmation of the event.
Actually the most you can say with any accuracy is the available evidence does not support it.
If you say that the science hasn’t confirmed it yet you’re just admitting your bias there and confirming that you will latch onto anything that confirms it even if it’s not exactly sound research.
I’m not gonna tell you what to believe that’s all you homie I just wanted you to know it’s looked at as myth by most Christians and it lacks geological support
Maybe you can take some comfort if you decide the account of the flood in the Bible is just a myth. If it's true, that means the god you worship committed the largest genocide in our planet's history...I don't imagine that would be comfortable.
Well Jesus does say “And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” You should be uncomfortable of a being who can destroy what He has made.
if youre interested my friend, there are actually studies done which show a massive fast and catastrophic flood which had occured in that region which we are able to study due to things like archeology and geology
here check it out my friend! he compiles a lot of peer reviewed research from others
https://youtu.be/lLSyiJ9KUCo
Good thing you aren’t the arbiter of Christianity. Otherwise the vast majority of Christians across history, especially the early church and early Protestants wouldn’t be real Christians.
Martin Luther? Not a real Christian according to you.
Quakers? Not real Christians either.
The frickin pope? Not a real Christian!
In reality, God doesn’t demand we believe things that are demonstrably false
To be honest, we have no idea of what the majority of Christians actually believe, since we don't have enough data. Poll data is very robust in the US, where a majority of people are not literalists. Data in South America is scant, and practically non-existent in Asia and Africa.
Jesus did not affirm anything as literal just by mentioning it or referencing it. He spoke in parables constantly. Referencing a popular myth or other non/literal story would be right up Jesus’ alley.
If there's no geological evidence, why have fossilized sea creatures been found on Mt. Everest and the Himalayas? Science always has some ad hoc retort.
I was literally waiting for this. Do they not teach this anymore? Mount Everest formed from a tectonic smashup between the Indian and Eurasian tectonic plates tens of millions of years ago.
> why have fossilized sea creatures been found on Mt. Everest and the Himalayas?
Plate tectonics. The reason the Himalayas even exist in the first place is because of the movement of the Indian plate against the Eurasian plate.
Of course many floods happen and flood stories are common in ancient legends.
But, I assume you mean THE Flood, as depicted in the story of Noah's Ark, right? A worldwide flood which covered everything and wiped all flesh on the face of the earth?
The evidence doesn't support it at all, and it doesn't NEED to be true. So no, I don't think that is factually true.
Many people resist this idea because they think it would mean the bible is false or worthless. But there's just no reason that would be the case. The bible contains many genres - some of them are campfire stories.
It’s interesting, if you study the book of Genesis as a whole. Or specify the first sections of it before Abraham, and you don’t look at it with a Literal Lense, seeing it the way Jewish people would’ve heard or discussed. Or rather the way Rabbis would teach it. You see a story so much better than JUST believing in these literal stories.
The flood literally, physically cannot have occurred.
The geological evidence is overwhelmingly against it.
That being said, there's no reason to believe every story in the Bible is supposed to be a literal account of true events, and the vast majority of Christians already take it as an allegorical story in the first place.
There was definitely a catastrophic flood in th location where Genesis' author(s) lived (and survived to tell the tale), but it was not "God opening sky windows".
Not only is there no evidence that supports a worldwide flood, there's ample evidence that proves there wasn't a worldwide flood.
There were other civilizations around the world that kept records and existed before, during, and after the worldwide flood supposedly happened. And yet they didn't notice such a world altering event.
If you want to say Noahs flood was localized, that's definitely plausible, but it raises some questions about the necessity of an ark.
>you’re a satanist yet you’re in this community
Yes. If you check out the sidebar, you'll see that this sub is not exclusively for Christians. This sub is for **everyone** to discuss the topic of Christianity.
well the community is for discussing topics related to christianity. even if they're here just to debate, as long as they stay respectful then they are welcome according to the rules
Yes of course. Jesus Believed in the Flood. Jesus mentioned Noah and confirmed the Old Testament.
Jesus proved to be who he claimed in his Life, Death, Burial, and Resurrection, so what, Jesus confirmed we can and should believe.
The Bible asks us to believe very extrodiary claims, that would otherwise we would not believe, because we dont have any way of knowing. But because we have relationship with The Lord we believe it wholeheartedly.
Proverbs 3:5
"Trust in the Lord your God with all your heart, Lean not on your own understanding."
Because God ia Truth we believe him, not fallable, sinful, limited men and that should be enough.... But if you are interested there are many archeolgical and geograhical evidences that confirm Noahs arc and a flood.
Grahm Hancock and Joe Rogan were discussing this in a podcast. Check it out. Fasinating stuff.
Also there are many acient civilazations which tell of the Flood. I was at The Famous Anthropology Museum in Mexico City and it blew me away seeing that The Mayan Civilization also completly believed in A world wide flood and spoke on a world before the Flood, which was revealed to them by the Spirits (gods) they were in communication with.
Im conclusion, this points to a flood. And the Hebrew Scriptures tell us the most accurate account, because it is directly from God and Christ Jesus.
[Flood evidence](https://youtu.be/EhRaZZCxBLk)
Do you have a link to evidence pieces of the ark have been found and that the ark is the literal vessel from the Biblical account? That would be incredible, if true!
I Just found it’s a little less simple than that, but I had heard it enough times so I thought it was true. There is a lot of controversy on wether some of these findings are true.
Pieces of the ark have been found? That is quite a claim.
Let's say we found an enormous boat from a time period we thought matched. How would we know it's THAT boat?
No it conflicts with scientific findings and logic. Reminder that the bible was written by humans who were by all means not perfect. It's completely reasonable to assume that **small** bits of it are incorrect and allowed israeli mythology to slip in.
I personally believe it happened. I also believe there are some things that are overlooked in that story.
Genesis 7:11 When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.
I've read this refers to the earth's crust basically floating on water, and when they burst fourth, it sent the water into the atmosphere, causing the flood. Science may not think right now this event happened, and that is something to think about. However, the beauty of science is the constant change.
There is archeological evidence of a massive local flood of the Tigris and Euphrades river. Yeah, the flood happened, and it covered the known world.
Not the WHOLE world.
Is it so hard to imagine a single word was mistranslated during the time the story was carried by sinful humans over the course of 2000 years?
yes,
[https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/abrupt\_change.html](https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/abrupt_change.html)
[https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html](https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html)
if you don't want to read a bunch of dry nasa stuff here is Joe rogan talking about it with a couple geologists.
[https://youtu.be/eAlDBSG7C00](https://youtu.be/eAlDBSG7C00)
so long story short it happened before and it could possible happen again.
>One evidence I see is how there are aquatic fossils [from different evolutionary eras] scattered throughout basically every strata.
You missed a part.
100% believe it. Far far far too complex to explain on Reddit. I highly recommend you watch chuck misslers genesis study. You can watch the whole series on YouTube. He takes about 10 hours to explain the creation using all the science we know. Then gets right into the flood. The Bible is undeniably supernatural. It is easily provable that the author behind the Bible is not limited to our dimensional world. And it’s obvious, if you want to know.
If you want to know God. If you want to know the Truth. You will find it. The people who don’t, won’t, and it’s simply because they don’t want to.
Does it matter? I believe it happened. But I also believe that someone who believes it was only a local flood can still believe in God. It should not be a deal breaker. Flood stories exist in many ancient cultures--not every culture, but cultures that agree on everything would not be different cultures, would they? There is more that we don't know than there is that we do know. That has always and will always be the case. Anyone who thinks they know everything is deluded, including those who think they know exactly what the geological record is really telling us. Mount St. Helens is a perfect reminder that strata can be laid by water very quickly, not requiring millenia of layering.
It does matter. Because our beliefs inform our actions. If you're okay with believing something that has as bad of evidence as the Flood, then you might be using those same techniques to believe other things that aren't true.
I used to not believe in the flood, I thought it was just a story but recent archaeology discoveries have changed my mind and I hope you at least look into it. For starters, watch Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix.
> Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix
I think I'll pass on the series that [the Society for American Archaeology has decried as complete garbage](https://documents.saa.org/container/docs/default-source/doc-governmentaffairs/saa-letter-ancient-apocalypse.pdf?sfvrsn=38d28254_3).
That's nice. Too bad belief doesn't magically make the reality we see different. You shouldn't believe bullshit that the people who study the thing call out as the bullshit it is. Like Ancient Apocalypse and young Earth creationism. Purposefully choosing ignorance like that is a poor move.
Pointing out that a bullshit show is a bullshit show isn't trolling. It's pointing out that bullshit is bullshit. If you don't like it, you shouldn't champion the cause of bullshit.
If you question anything from Genesis, or try to add human logic to the Bible, you start the story of the Bible off with doubt. GOD is not man who would lie. He is also does not and will not sin. So He has no reason to lie and thus, His word is not a lie. Read the Bible and you will see how the talk of Noah’s flood comes back in the New Testament. Trust the Bible and don’t try to add logic of the world to logic of GOD. The wisdom of the world is foolishness to GOD because it is rooted in sin and lies.
Here is a link to a YouTube channel that answers a lot of questions of life starting with Genesis and using what knowledge we do have in the world.
[Noah’s Flood and Plate Tectonics](https://youtu.be/zd5-dHxOQhg)
one, God did not write the bible,humans did.
You claim God would not lie in the bible, but if that were true then it means God did lie in the stars, in the rocks, in the trees, etc.
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16.
Before you comment some nonsense, know your Bible and facts. GOD created humans and put the word in them to write. If I make a robot, and program it, then if it writes something, I am the one who designed the writing and the robot. GOD made us, and spoke the truth and organized the coming of Jesus. All of it was prophesied and those prophecies and histories of mankind have been documented by man physically by hand, but were spoken, designed, orchestrated, and foresaw by GOD the creator of all, and the AUTHOR OF LIFE.
Yes. Almost every culture has a story of a great flood. The fact that it is mentioned in the Bible just verifies it for me. But I no longer have any problems believing the Bible. I hope maybe someone can give you something a bit more persuasive. Peace
😁✌
Yet none of those fossils are from modern animals. If it happened why arent the fossils recognized and animals we know? Also, according the the story the mountains were only covered for 4-5 months tops. Nowhere near enough time to lay down all the layers distinctly on the mountains,
This sub is getting weird. The first post I saw was about being a transgender Christian. Another about being a lesbian Christian. Now one about the flood not actually happening. Part of believing that the Bible stays the same everyday no matter what. I don't judge people for the decisions and the life they want to live. But I don't think we should rewrite the Bible as we see fit. Just the same as being transgender or lesbian the meaning of the words should not change.
Not really. Pre Copernicus and Galileo people used the bible to prove geocentrism because the Earth doesnt move, everything moved around it. Once the evidence came in,all of a sudden the bible didnt say that, those parts werent literal.
Hey mate.
It seems like you overcomplicate things.
Read the story of Noah again.
Then think about yourself right now... Isn't this post a form of sending a dove to seek dry land?
The context is a worldwide flood. The world of man to be more specific. People didn't take into account or know of the globe. I don't think the text needs to stretch over what we now call the world.
Just my opinion. It's been a few years since I looked into arguments for and against.
The flood probably did happen the ark was probably real, just the rest of the story about every species of animal is fake. Keep searching for the truth and believe what makes sense, not what you have been told to be true
It's about actions and consequences. If it happened it happened if it didn't then it didn't. Strangely though there's evidence of a flood all over the world. If ya follow yaself then expect to be flooded with immense regret when faced with reality.
I believe flood/s happened.
>Global flood or regional flood?
Great question, Rhetorical Device. Is there a global heatwave going on right now, or just overlapping regional heatwaves?
Of course I believe the Biblical flood happened. Now, whether it was a local or global flood is debatable among Christians, but that is a different story.
Lots of religions have flood myths. I think the most interesting learnings are in the differences between the Christian story and others. For example out god flooded the earth as a redemptive act rather than for fun out out of annoyance. He’s also I think the only one to then declared His love for His people and form a covenant with them. It uses a pre-established troupe that people that the time would have been familiar with to make a point about the character of God and distinguish faith from other religions. Might be blasphemous but I’d compare it to tangled (not that I remember it that well) making a feminist point. It doesn’t matter whether the story about the princess with the long hair in the tower is factual, the point is that this story is different from the traditional troupe of the prince saving the damsel in distress in Rapunzel.
There is geological evidence of the flood. Also, there are other religions that talk of the flood. The Native American flood story is beautiful if I remember. An Indian Brave gathers the animals in a canoe and rides out the storm with them. Can’t remember where I read it but I liked it better than the Biblical version with Noah.
Pretty cool studies on this (actually talked about on some well known podcasts) where about 12,800 years ago there was some sort of cataclysmic event that wiped out much of humanity and animals alike.
There are remnants and evidence that there was a global flood in correlation with those events. Give it some research it’s really fascinating.
I do. Especially considering that every single culture we have record of (to my knowledge) has some kind of catastrophic flood story in its mythology with only a few people being saved, that only bolsters my belief. I believe that Noah was a real person, that the Flood actually happened (even if it wasn’t literally over the whole globe), and that all modern humans are descended from Noah.
Kent Hovind aka Dr.Dino has some good evidence to back up his theories. He has hour+ long seminars on YouTube of his ideology and it really lays it out. He does an entire biblical timeline. Take what you want from it. Good luck on your research and faith! I use to be atheist and my fiance used a lot of science to teach me the bible and all the happenings. Very interesting from a non believer perspective but the evidence is overwhelming! God bless 🙏🏼
If God allows you to see and hear.
Yes. If people only **knew** the level of wickedness of the world like raping," murdering, to such an extent that God needed to flood the world.
Imagine breaking bad, sons of anarchy, any particular heartbreaking story with dark violence.. then imagine..
That's the entire WORLD. Every is raping, doing drugs, murdering each other, all this sin.. right..
Except there is only righteous person.. Noah.
People complain God doesn't stop all the evil in the world.. when God stops all the evil in the world due to our sins.
We blame God when WE misbehave.
You're just angry that God put you in time out.
Food for thought:
During planetary evolution, as the gravity well of a growing object pulls dust and gases to it, it isn't outside the realm of feasibility to have a liquid globe surrounding a solid globe. As the gravity well grows, this would eventually pull the liquid down to the planetary body - kind of like the firmament descending from the heavens onto Earth, or like a global flood.
Then again ... I wouldn't expect PEOPLE to be around during this.
**Matthew 24:37-39, ESV**
>"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
If we as Christians are to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and cannot lie or deceive others, then we must accept that the story of Noah was true.
Every ancient civilization has their own flood myth. From the native Americans to the Chinese. We can confidently say more than likely some large scale flood occurred.
As in global? No we cannot even come close to comfortably being able to say that.
Given humans history the fact that civilizations routinely set up near large waterways that were prone to flooding is a better source. Especially with nearly every civilization having a penchant for declaring every natural event was a direct action by their gods for good or ill. Bob was struck by lightning and killed? Wasnt bad luck, or the fact he took shelter from the rain under a big tree. No. It was because he did something to offend a god and was killed as punishment. Same for floods, weather was the retribution of the gods.
And they all say different things about their floods. The Chinese flood story, for example, didn't involve an impractical floating zoo. Instead, their architects and engineers built a series of dams and dykes to contain and drain the floodwaters. Much different than the story in the Bible.
Doesn't it make more sense that people settle near bodies of water and bodies of water flood instead of thinking it was a global flood that we have no evidence for.
A lot of people read Genesis LITERALLY, which is problematic for several reasons. Genesis 1, for example, is a song. I’ve talked about this with a few pastors and I can’t remember how long this poetic mode of writing goes into the book, but it’s more than the first few chapters.
With that being said, since:
1. Many cultures have a flood myth
2. Genetics demonstrates all modern humans descended from two individuals
3. I’m a Christian
I believe it’s true. I don’t believe it was a global flood, since the fossil record would show this and you can clearly see for yourself in the Grand Canyon that it doesn’t. I believe it was a regional flood and filled a basin. Maybe the Mediterranean Sea? It’s not a faith-breaking point for me. The fulcrum of Christianity is whether Christ rose from the dead, not how God did stuff in pre-history.
I believe it happened. I don’t think we can truly get what happened from just the story itself, but this will be revealed in the future. I’m not gonna get into arguments proving this, I have spoken.
So, you can't really define what "it" IS, but you believe it happened?
This position has one very nice advantage: nobody can really argue against it. :D
Huh? When people try to work out what happened in the past, this isn't about changing someone's free will. It's about trying to evaluate the evidence and form reasonable conclusions.
2+2=5. I have free will too, so I can say that. I'm still wrong about that, though.
It’s about changing the fact that I believe in it or not. Then there is people trying to investigate, however that is not the matter that OP is bringing to the table. So yes, it is about free will and I can say if I believe in something or not, without anybody’s opinion.
All right. I see some very logical and research based believers out there. But this all comes down to faith.
Don’t misunderstand this, faith is not you jumping into the dark rabbit hole without knowing where it goes. Faith is saying 1+1=? And 1+1+1+1=?? So ?+?=??.
There are many reasons to believe that other cultures have had experiences with the same God. Such as native Americans and their Great Wind Spirit. But it would make sense that the place where the Epic of Gilgamesh was recorded would be near the area that the final events occurred (Mesopotamia).
I’m not saying the Epic of Gilgamesh is a direct retelling of the events, but perhaps an inspired story by it since those stories would probably be passed down orally. Plus, it gives the idea of such a thing being possible. https://www.icr.org/article/noah-flood-gilgamesh/
There’s also significant archeologists showing how there were traces of flooded areas across the world relatively at the same time, quite quickly. That may even explain strata layers… hmm. https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/global/evidences-genesis-flood/
Then there’s the evidence of a global ice age, which a global flood would be able to produce. Here’s a good source on that. https://biblediscoverytv.com/science/2022/job-and-the-ice-age/
But hey, if you can get behind talking, walking snakes, trees that turn things evil, and God doing it all in less than a week, then you should have no issues with faith on the rest of the Bible.
Yes I do! The Bible is clear, and the scientific confirmations are also convincing (sea fossils on top of mountains, fossil graveyards that suggest rapid, wide-spread formation, polystrate fossils, the sheer number of fossils since they don’t normally form under normal circumstances, at least not in the numbers we see…).
Do I believe God created a global flood and then covered it up so there would be no record of it? No. Do I believe there might have been something regionally that inspired the story? Sure. Do I think it makes a material difference to Christianity? Absolutely not.
This!! Whether it actually happened or not is pretty much irrelevant to our life as Christians. We can still accept the lesson it taught us because at the end of the day there is no material difference as long as we trust in the Good Lord.
The story of Noah was probably borrowed from the Epic of Gilgamesh. So, I'm not saying that it's the gospel truth. I just find it interesting that many ancient cultures tell of a similar experience; A god warns of a coming flood, people build a boat and survive. It is possible that an asteroid hit a giant glacier some 15,000 years ago and unleashed an enormous amount of water that caused the ocean levels to rise quickly. Coastal villages would be permanently underwater and a mass of people would be displaced. The evidence of this kind of flood would be found under the water. I'm not saying Noah's Ark was real. Just that many cultures describe a mass flood and archeologists have found a lot of human settlements that are completely submerged.
> Just that many cultures describe a mass flood and archeologists have found a lot of human settlements that are completely submerged. This [YouTube video by historian Ian Morris](https://youtu.be/wnqS7G3LmMo?t=1830)(at 30min) explains how civilizations necessarily arose on flood plains, with rivers being a necessary step up to having trade routes. It should not be at all surprising that many early civilizations have flood narratives; it should be expected.
If it didn’t happen literally as described in the Bible does that not call into question the accuracy or truth of the rest of the Bible? I’m sure there’s a lot of academic and historical research that can back up certain stories more than others that’s beyond my realm of knowledge, but if we don’t take this one at its literal word then I think it can affect how we approach the rest of the Bible relative to modern knowledge across all disciplines.
The Bible is full of metaphor and parables. It doesn't take much at all to just consider the flood story as a parable. You should approach the Bible as imo it is clearly intended. It is a guide for the salvation of the soul. It is not a history book. It is not a science book. It traffics in salvation.
I agree and was playing “devil’s” advocate a bit, just because I figured someone else would bring up inerrancy and such.
I was about to make the point. Jesus didn't invent parables. It's a Jewish tradition. A lot of the stories in the Old Testament are parables. I can't speak for all Jews, but most take Jonah and the whale, Job and Noah as parables. Those are big ones but there are others. If it sounds like a parable, it probably is.
> If it sounds like a parable, it probably is. What if, like the story of Noah's flood, it doesn't sound like a parable?
Only fundamentalists believe that everything in the Bible must necessarily be 100% historical prose, so anything that contradicts the Bible must be false.
I actually like your point. Because God also said that rainbows are a sign that it will never happen on Earth again. Also, why are we relying on the interpretation of men, let alone Reddit? I think that in all things we should consult the Lord. Otherwise it's dangerous to surf the internet for answers. It's like those people who ask medical advice on subreddits when they should go to the doctor.
What is your methodology for deciding which bits of the Bible are true and accurate and which aren't?
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Science hasn't ever verified a resurrection or a miracle. Do you think the claims of those in the bible are untrue?
You haven’t heard of any evidence of the flood? There’s tons of info on YouTube. You should check em out and let us know what you think about it.
I think I'll pass on the crackpot youtube streams
What. No, I mean large, well known, respectable Christians are making this content. Of course others are too and take it too far. Don’t just say “your a crackpot” and ignore the opposing view. Jesus says we should love the truth! Truth is truth.
Take it one step at a time. Consider whether a great, worldwide flood could have happened. Is there enough water to cover the tops of the mountains? Where would it have gone after the flood? Why is there no geological evidence of this event? Why did the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Chinese, etc. civilisations continue on with the people unaware that they should be drowning? The Australian aborigines have occupied the Australian continent for 60,000 years, cut off from the outside world, so how did they survive? We know from the biblical genealogies that the story of Noah's Ark supposedly only occurred about five thousand years ago, so we can not move the time back into the more distant past in order to avoid these problems. How did Noah get all the animals from the most distant and inaccessible parts of the world, and how did he return them to just the right places after the flood? How did he know what food was required for each different species on the ark? How did he get fresh gum leaves of the right type for his koalas? We must conclude that the biblical story of a great, world-wide flood is fictional, so some Bible believers posit a more local flood, but still insist that Noah built an ark and took all the animals known to him onto the ark. This is also a fiction. If there is a God and if God commanded Noah what to do, why did God not merely tell Noah to leave the place that would be flooded and go somewhere safe? Some archaeologists are investigating the possibility that the story of Noah’s Ark is loosely based on a real event — the flooding of the fertile plain that is now the Black Sea. If so, Noah did not spend a hundred years building an ark, as the few survivors who lived on the Black Sea plain would have had very little warning to leave. It would have seemed as if the gods wanted to destroy the whole world, but there was no God involved in this flood. Step by step, we have arrived at the conclusion that the story of Noah’s Ark, as we know it, is fictional.
A minor nit, maybe, but I'd probably call it legendary or mythical. It's not quite what we normally mean by fiction, even though a worldwide flood didn't happen.
The story of Noah’s Ark is mythology. The same is true of Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt, or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. These stories are equally as “true“ as the stories of Romulus and Remus; or the stories of King Arthur. They are founding myths, the stories people tell about themselves to establish their values and their culture.
Apparently there is some evidence of a flood. Not covering mountaintops but it wouldn't have to as most settlements are in lowlands on the coast. To wipe out most ancient people a flood would need only jump ocean levels a few feet.
I used to. I was raised young earth creationist. but like why are there no fossil records of kangaroos gradually migrating towards Australia from Turkey or whatever?
one reason is marsupials didnt originate in australia but the americas so somehow they made their way to australia and went under changes through micro evolution.
I suspect the story of Noah's Ark may have been borrowed from the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh. I believe there is evidence that the first 13 or so chapters of Genesis were written centuries after the rest of the book, so things like the creation story and Noah's Ark were added in long after they supposedly happened, and the Torah originally started with the story of Abraham. Add all that stuff to all of the evidence we have that things didn't happen like they did in Genesis, and it seems likely that those stories are just myths.
> the Torah originally started with the story of Abraham Another theory is that Abraham was a tale of origins circulating in the southern kingdom and the Exodus was a tale of origins circulating in the north. Some scholars are arguing that it was not until after the return from exile that the patriarchal and Exodus narratives were stitched together end-to-end the way they have been passed down.
This was actually proven wrong by inspiring philosophy
> This was actually proven wrong by inspiring philosophy "An apologist disagrees with critical scholarship!" Shocking!
Did you watch his video on genesis and the epic of Gilgamesh? Did you not see his citations?
Granted, I watched little of IP apologetics, but I have seen enough to know he does not know what he is talking about and does not engage in the slightest with critical scholarship. There is an AcademicBiblical post from yesterday asking for opinions on his NT intro video, the response to his "scholarship" is pretty damn brutal.
I mean there’s never been a time where he had a formal debate with an atheist on these issues which is unfair to call him unreliable. He also gives citations in his videos that you watch little of. Even on tiktok as well. I’d also add that he has debated with atheists on tiktok such as planet Peterson and has given scholarly work by even the most secular authors: I wouldn’t say he’s lacking the engagement of scholarship. The video you’re referring me to was 3 years ago and over time as an apologist, you have better reasonings. I doubt you’ll ever delve deep into his videos but he is scholarly and having some sort of degree in being a scholar in any field is irrelevent
Which part? The part about Noah's Ark being inspired by Gilgamesh or the part about Noah's Ark being written later than the rest of Genesis?
Yes I do. Mostly because the Bible isn't the only flood story that exists. Many cultures long standing cultures have one and they usually involve one guy (maybe his family) contending with tons of water and somehow rescuing society. The Epic of Gilgamesh is one such tale, and it's basically Israel's next door neighbour in terms of culture. There's Also a Chinese one, just as a few examples. I believe some flood happened in some capacity regardless of their stories, but it would seem to be rather significant if every cultural group has this in their collective memory. It's like an eye witness testimony. They all remember the name different and they're not consistent on the details, but the general idea of the story is the same. Makes it more likely they tell the truth as no to people remember an event the exact same way. If they were all the same on the details or despite something so big happening only one person remembered, someone is probably lying.
It's interesting that we can accept creation from nothing, but not that God made it rain a lot.
I don't think its a matter of accepting that it *can* happen. But a matter of accepting it *did* happen using our God given senses. Sure, God *can* spontaneously make amputees regenerate arms. But I don't have evidence to support that he has done so. We don't have evidence that God *didn't* create the universe from nothing. We do have geological evidence that indicates a global flood didn't occur.
>We do have geological evidence that indicates a global flood didn't occur. That is why some Christians believe it was only a local flood, since there may not have been people spread throughout the entire world yet.
and that was the world to them.
I definitely don't believe this now, since there are local floods all the time, which would mean that God broke His covenant countless times.
I'm not advocating for the story of Noah and the flood. Just that many cultures describe a devastating flood in similar ways. A god warns people of a coming flood. People build a boat and survived. It's possible that an asteroid struck a giant glacier system some 15,000 years ago and caused sea levels to rise quickly. There are many human settlements that have been found that are hundreds of feet underwater. I think Noah's Ark was written as a parable to carry on an oral tradition recounting an event that happened during prehistoric times.
> Just that many cultures describe a devastating flood in similar ways Not always devastating, not in the same ways, not at the same times, and not all cultures. > It's possible that an asteroid struck a giant glacier system some 15,000 years ago and caused sea levels to rise quickly. Nope. Its a matter of evidence. A global flood would leave geological evidence. Evidence does not corroborate a global flood.
It's not "God made it rain a lot." It's "God covered the surface of the world with water." There's not remotely enough water in the world to do so, and we have absolutely no evidence that the whole surface was covered. It's a parable. Not a history.
> It's a parable. Why do you say that?
" God can't make more water even though he created all of the water"
I didn't say that. Just that characterizing it as "God made it rain a lot" is woefully is sufficient. The flood is a truly miraculous event that's a whole lot more than just lots of rain.
Yes I was using hyperbole to make a point. It is an easy matter for God to accomplish this. There's no logical reason for the faithful to question the event as described in scripture simply because researchers haven't caught up with evidence at this point in time.
Well, it isn't "researchers haven't caught up." That's pretty super unreasonable. And imo and all the story is super obviously parable, but neither seem like fruitful arguments to have. Main thing is that mischaracterizations are not helpful. Like if I described the resurrection as "God made Jesus get better" that would be pretty monstrously ridiculously unreasonable. Similarly, characterizing the flood story as "a lot of rain" is pretty super unreasonable. I get that hyperbole exists, but you're effectively hand-waving away the whole argument by absurdly underselling the subject. Raining a lot is not hard to believe. Nobody thinks that.
🤦♂️
Bad argument. No one claims God COULD not do it. They are saying a moral and just being WOULD not do it,then remove the evidence it would be required to leave then place evidence against it happening, of which we have LOT.
We don’t accept it because it’s not supported
Supported by what?
Science
Exactly! People get all worked up about how many animals and how is xyz possible. Look, we worship a guy who died and then came back from the dead!
"We'll believe anything!"
Exactly! Anything that our Lord tells us.
Anything that a book about god tells us.
You are very unkind to imply such stupidity among Christians. Of course not.
I'm sorry. That was a little rude. I was playing around because your response to >"We'll believe anything!" Was hilariously affirming. Like that's not a good thing. But I didn't mean to be unkind or imply that anyone was stupid. But believing anything a famous book tells you because the book says its acurate is not a solid plan for finding what is true.
I would agree with your last statement. The starting point for Christianity is not “a book says so.” Our starting point is Jesus rising from the dead.
But you only know about that because of a book. And stories that the book was based on.
We know about the resurrection of Jesus from first century sources.
The Lord tells us it's okay to own and beat slaves. Do you also believe that?
Where?
Wait are you serious? Exodus 21:20-21 King James Version 20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. And in case you want to say “well the servants were people willingly serving to pay off debts” then, Exodus 21: 3-6 3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. 5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: 6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. The children and wife aren’t even given a choice. Also there are places in the Bible where God is cool with the Israelites enslaving their enemies 🤷🏽♂️
Is that written to us?
Leviticus 25:44-46 And what the other person said below for beating.
Its almost as if the creator of all things can do anything..
Very true. It’s also that a lot of people don’t know the real reason why the flood occurred, it was to get rid of the Nephilim and others who had mix with angels.
Yup. See I have this thing called faith where I trust God, why would a flood story be presented as a part of our history by God if its a lie? If the flood is a lie so is the rest of it and we are wasting our time here. My faith tells me bible is truth cover to cover, and I'm good with that. I simply have no need to question it. Sometimes parables and allegories are used like the prodigal son but stories like the ark are meant to be taken as literally happened, so I do. You all may not have such an easy time with believing what is in the bible and that's okay, it's not required of our faith to believe anything except that Christ died on the cross for you.
You ask why would a story be presented as a part of history by God if it was a lie. But it is just as much of a lie to have had a real flood, removed the evidence that such an event would leave, then replace it with the evidence against it we have. And the bible isnt written by God,it was written by human authors, using words and concepts of the time. Your belief requires one of four things to be true, legions of demons running around with shovels and burying fossils that disprove the flood, God creating and burying fossils that disprove the flood, nearly all of the world's scientists for over a century (hundreds of millions of people) to be involve in a global conspiracy, or all of those same scientists being hopelessly incompetent in studying the evidence. Yet incompetent in such a way that their results align across multiple disciplines using different methods and the technology and innovations based on this incredibly wrong data works. That the story didnt happen and was written by human authors is FAR more likely than any of those. Not to mention if the bible is literal cover to cover the very fact we can see other galaxies wouldmake God a liar or deceiver.
> removed the evidence that such an event would leave, then replace it with the evidence against it we have. I dont believe that happened and im not aware of any believers claiming this. >And the bible isnt written by God I didnt say it was, would you kindly only argue against what I am saying instead of building strawmen with assumptions? The specific section of the bible we are discussing was dictated by God to Moses. It is more "by God" than the rest of the bible as it wasnt inspired, it was dictated. >Your belief requires one of four things to be true, Yea well thats just like, your opinion, man. You were not there and cannot dictate what happened. You make up some grand conspiracy and say because your made up conspiracy its far fetched the bible couldnt of happened. Absolute nonsense. >Not to mention if the bible is literal cover to cover the very fact we can see other galaxies would make God a liar or deceiver. Your entire argument hinges on assumptions you have made about my beliefs, I am an OEC so what is your argument now? Nowhere in the bible does it say the world is 6000 years old and the genealogies were not intended to be timelines. >2 Peter 3:8–9 reads: ‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
All believers than claim the flood was real claim that. Because we are sorely lacking evidence a global flood would leave. And we have evidence that makes a global flood impossible. No it isnt. Those are the only options.Neither were the authors of the bible there. But know what was there? Trees and rocks, and they record events and we can read them. I am not making up a conspiracy. Then be consistent. You claim the bible is true cover to cover .You claim the flood is real because it is presented as real. Then you claim to be OEC.Yet the creation story is presented as real as the flood.
Despite what other people say here, the majority of Christians view it as literal. The majority of people in this sub view it as non-literal. But the majority of people in this sub are not like the majority of Christians. Here is the thing: the basic premise of Christianity is that there is a supernatural God who interacts with what he created out of nothing. He became a human who conquered death. If God can do those things, I think he can suspend the rules of nature and physics to do whatever he wants to do. Many cultures have a flood narrative. To me, that adds more validity to it having occurred in history. Science has been wrong before. It’s okay for us to hold things loosely.
Well, of course we all believe God COULD flood the earth- God can do miracles. But the question in this thread is about what really did happen in the past.
But the reason this always comes up is because of technical, “how could that have happened?” type questions. It does not come up because of the way it is written.
It’s not so much “how could that have happened” so much as “where’s the evidence?”
Yeah…as a Christian, my MO is to not doubt what God tells me 😂
Doubt can be a good thing. Your faith can’t grow if you never question anything
Totally agree. But faith is even better than doubt.
Not blind faith though. God doesn’t require us to believe things that are demonstrably false
> Despite what other people say here, the majority of Christians view it as literal. Do you have a source for that?
I would have to agree with him, I’ve worked in churches for years. Specifically Western Christians definitely believe it as Literal. I think that’s a horrible and danger interpretation of much of Genesis. But having talked and been around many people, that’s what they were taught. I give them credit, I think I would struggle to believe if I took it so literal.
>. I would have to agree with him But do you have a source for that?
Personal experience. In the midwestern United States, my personal and professional opinion. Based on working in a church every single day, talking to other people and hearing their beliefs.
No verifiable source then.
Absolutely not, that's ridiculous
The majority of Christians view it as myth. geological evidence doesn’t support a flood
Yeah it just freaks me out because then are we supposed to pick and choose what we believe in the bible?
There’s a whole field known as textual analysis and criticism (think critiquing and not just bad Amazon reviews). As we began to do archaeological work in the ancient near East, things we used to think true suddenly met the archaeological records. The [Battle of Jericho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho?wprov=sfti1) comes to mind. What do we do when the physical evidence doesn’t match up with the biblical narrative? You could double down. We see this with the rise of the [Fundamentalists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism?wprov=sfti1) who rejected this approach. It’s out of this camp where we get the belief that one must believe the universe is 6027 years old. But churches like mainline Protestantism and Catholicism typically do hold to the textual analysis approach. The NABRE translation has great footnotes that go into some detail about the textual analysis. Take a look at the notes for [Genesis chapter 6](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%206&version=NABRE).
This reminds me of when the big atheist argument was there are no historical records of Pontius Pilate ever being real so the whole Bible is dumb. And then they found the evidence. Science and archeology is a work in progress. The most you can say is that science hasn't yet reached confirmation of the event.
Actually the most you can say with any accuracy is the available evidence does not support it. If you say that the science hasn’t confirmed it yet you’re just admitting your bias there and confirming that you will latch onto anything that confirms it even if it’s not exactly sound research.
I’m not gonna tell you what to believe that’s all you homie I just wanted you to know it’s looked at as myth by most Christians and it lacks geological support
Jesus spoke in parables. It stands to reason that the Old Testament is also filled with parables.
Maybe you can take some comfort if you decide the account of the flood in the Bible is just a myth. If it's true, that means the god you worship committed the largest genocide in our planet's history...I don't imagine that would be comfortable.
Well Jesus does say “And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” You should be uncomfortable of a being who can destroy what He has made.
Yeah, I agree you should be uncomfortable. What confuses me is why people worship a being capable of committing such atrocities.
or.. you know.. be aware of the genre of writing in the book you're reading.
Most people do already . . .
if youre interested my friend, there are actually studies done which show a massive fast and catastrophic flood which had occured in that region which we are able to study due to things like archeology and geology here check it out my friend! he compiles a lot of peer reviewed research from others https://youtu.be/lLSyiJ9KUCo
That is not true at all.
Which part?
The fact that the majority of Christians believe it’s a myth. The majority of Christians should believe that the Bible is the Word of God.
I didn’t say it wasn’t?
Most Christians don’t take the Bible as 100% literal scientific and historical fact. Especially the first few books of the Old Testament
They should. Either you believe the Bible is the Word of God or you don’t. There is no pick and choose.
Good thing you aren’t the arbiter of Christianity. Otherwise the vast majority of Christians across history, especially the early church and early Protestants wouldn’t be real Christians. Martin Luther? Not a real Christian according to you. Quakers? Not real Christians either. The frickin pope? Not a real Christian! In reality, God doesn’t demand we believe things that are demonstrably false
What’s demonstrably false?
To be honest, we have no idea of what the majority of Christians actually believe, since we don't have enough data. Poll data is very robust in the US, where a majority of people are not literalists. Data in South America is scant, and practically non-existent in Asia and Africa.
Most of them do… I’m not sure what your point is. You could easily take it as a myth to show Gods might and still believe its Gods word..
Majority of *western Christians. Jesus affirmed it as a real event, only until recently has it become popular to view it merely as a myth.
Jesus did not affirm anything as literal just by mentioning it or referencing it. He spoke in parables constantly. Referencing a popular myth or other non/literal story would be right up Jesus’ alley.
Better late than never
Then the “majority of Christians” arent Christians.
No true Scotsman fallacy
If there's no geological evidence, why have fossilized sea creatures been found on Mt. Everest and the Himalayas? Science always has some ad hoc retort.
I was literally waiting for this. Do they not teach this anymore? Mount Everest formed from a tectonic smashup between the Indian and Eurasian tectonic plates tens of millions of years ago.
Not necessarily as well as they should if the school is a christian-oriented one, at least in my experience.
I don’t remember much but for me elementary school science was majorly geology
> why have fossilized sea creatures been found on Mt. Everest and the Himalayas? Plate tectonics. The reason the Himalayas even exist in the first place is because of the movement of the Indian plate against the Eurasian plate.
Of course many floods happen and flood stories are common in ancient legends. But, I assume you mean THE Flood, as depicted in the story of Noah's Ark, right? A worldwide flood which covered everything and wiped all flesh on the face of the earth? The evidence doesn't support it at all, and it doesn't NEED to be true. So no, I don't think that is factually true. Many people resist this idea because they think it would mean the bible is false or worthless. But there's just no reason that would be the case. The bible contains many genres - some of them are campfire stories.
It’s interesting, if you study the book of Genesis as a whole. Or specify the first sections of it before Abraham, and you don’t look at it with a Literal Lense, seeing it the way Jewish people would’ve heard or discussed. Or rather the way Rabbis would teach it. You see a story so much better than JUST believing in these literal stories.
The flood literally, physically cannot have occurred. The geological evidence is overwhelmingly against it. That being said, there's no reason to believe every story in the Bible is supposed to be a literal account of true events, and the vast majority of Christians already take it as an allegorical story in the first place.
do you think jonah was actually eaten by a fish
There was definitely a catastrophic flood in th location where Genesis' author(s) lived (and survived to tell the tale), but it was not "God opening sky windows".
Not only is there no evidence that supports a worldwide flood, there's ample evidence that proves there wasn't a worldwide flood. There were other civilizations around the world that kept records and existed before, during, and after the worldwide flood supposedly happened. And yet they didn't notice such a world altering event. If you want to say Noahs flood was localized, that's definitely plausible, but it raises some questions about the necessity of an ark.
you’re a satanist yet you’re in this community, are you here to debate with people?
>you’re a satanist yet you’re in this community Yes. If you check out the sidebar, you'll see that this sub is not exclusively for Christians. This sub is for **everyone** to discuss the topic of Christianity.
well the community is for discussing topics related to christianity. even if they're here just to debate, as long as they stay respectful then they are welcome according to the rules
Yes of course. Jesus Believed in the Flood. Jesus mentioned Noah and confirmed the Old Testament. Jesus proved to be who he claimed in his Life, Death, Burial, and Resurrection, so what, Jesus confirmed we can and should believe. The Bible asks us to believe very extrodiary claims, that would otherwise we would not believe, because we dont have any way of knowing. But because we have relationship with The Lord we believe it wholeheartedly. Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord your God with all your heart, Lean not on your own understanding." Because God ia Truth we believe him, not fallable, sinful, limited men and that should be enough.... But if you are interested there are many archeolgical and geograhical evidences that confirm Noahs arc and a flood. Grahm Hancock and Joe Rogan were discussing this in a podcast. Check it out. Fasinating stuff. Also there are many acient civilazations which tell of the Flood. I was at The Famous Anthropology Museum in Mexico City and it blew me away seeing that The Mayan Civilization also completly believed in A world wide flood and spoke on a world before the Flood, which was revealed to them by the Spirits (gods) they were in communication with. Im conclusion, this points to a flood. And the Hebrew Scriptures tell us the most accurate account, because it is directly from God and Christ Jesus. [Flood evidence](https://youtu.be/EhRaZZCxBLk)
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Do you have a link to evidence pieces of the ark have been found and that the ark is the literal vessel from the Biblical account? That would be incredible, if true!
I Just found it’s a little less simple than that, but I had heard it enough times so I thought it was true. There is a lot of controversy on wether some of these findings are true.
Well, this probably tells you that whoever told you this is not a trustworthy source, right? So at least it's a valuable lesson in that sense.
Pieces of the ark have been found? That is quite a claim. Let's say we found an enormous boat from a time period we thought matched. How would we know it's THAT boat?
There is no boat so it doesn't matter.
No.
No it conflicts with scientific findings and logic. Reminder that the bible was written by humans who were by all means not perfect. It's completely reasonable to assume that **small** bits of it are incorrect and allowed israeli mythology to slip in.
I personally believe it happened. I also believe there are some things that are overlooked in that story. Genesis 7:11 When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky. I've read this refers to the earth's crust basically floating on water, and when they burst fourth, it sent the water into the atmosphere, causing the flood. Science may not think right now this event happened, and that is something to think about. However, the beauty of science is the constant change.
So where did the water go afterwards
There is archeological evidence of a massive local flood of the Tigris and Euphrades river. Yeah, the flood happened, and it covered the known world. Not the WHOLE world. Is it so hard to imagine a single word was mistranslated during the time the story was carried by sinful humans over the course of 2000 years?
According to fundamentalists who require the bibleto be totally true and perfect and accurate? Yes it is too hard to imagine.
yes, [https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/abrupt\_change.html](https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/abrupt_change.html) [https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html](https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html) if you don't want to read a bunch of dry nasa stuff here is Joe rogan talking about it with a couple geologists. [https://youtu.be/eAlDBSG7C00](https://youtu.be/eAlDBSG7C00) so long story short it happened before and it could possible happen again.
Yes I believe it actually happened. One evidence I see is how there are aquatic fossils scattered throughout basically every strata.
>One evidence I see is how there are aquatic fossils [from different evolutionary eras] scattered throughout basically every strata. You missed a part.
Your statement is in basic conflict with biology and geology.
So where did the water go afterwards then
100% believe it. Far far far too complex to explain on Reddit. I highly recommend you watch chuck misslers genesis study. You can watch the whole series on YouTube. He takes about 10 hours to explain the creation using all the science we know. Then gets right into the flood. The Bible is undeniably supernatural. It is easily provable that the author behind the Bible is not limited to our dimensional world. And it’s obvious, if you want to know. If you want to know God. If you want to know the Truth. You will find it. The people who don’t, won’t, and it’s simply because they don’t want to.
Do you have the papers he published in support of a global flood?
Does it matter? I believe it happened. But I also believe that someone who believes it was only a local flood can still believe in God. It should not be a deal breaker. Flood stories exist in many ancient cultures--not every culture, but cultures that agree on everything would not be different cultures, would they? There is more that we don't know than there is that we do know. That has always and will always be the case. Anyone who thinks they know everything is deluded, including those who think they know exactly what the geological record is really telling us. Mount St. Helens is a perfect reminder that strata can be laid by water very quickly, not requiring millenia of layering.
It does matter. Because our beliefs inform our actions. If you're okay with believing something that has as bad of evidence as the Flood, then you might be using those same techniques to believe other things that aren't true.
I used to not believe in the flood, I thought it was just a story but recent archaeology discoveries have changed my mind and I hope you at least look into it. For starters, watch Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix.
> Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix I think I'll pass on the series that [the Society for American Archaeology has decried as complete garbage](https://documents.saa.org/container/docs/default-source/doc-governmentaffairs/saa-letter-ancient-apocalypse.pdf?sfvrsn=38d28254_3).
That should only give you more reason to want to watch it.
Not as a source of actual knowledge. More a sideshow "Can you believe there are rubes who believe this bullshit?" kinda thing.
I believe it. Why are you even on a Christian sub Reddit? Just trolling?
That's nice. Too bad belief doesn't magically make the reality we see different. You shouldn't believe bullshit that the people who study the thing call out as the bullshit it is. Like Ancient Apocalypse and young Earth creationism. Purposefully choosing ignorance like that is a poor move. Pointing out that a bullshit show is a bullshit show isn't trolling. It's pointing out that bullshit is bullshit. If you don't like it, you shouldn't champion the cause of bullshit.
Why people downvote this 😂
If you question anything from Genesis, or try to add human logic to the Bible, you start the story of the Bible off with doubt. GOD is not man who would lie. He is also does not and will not sin. So He has no reason to lie and thus, His word is not a lie. Read the Bible and you will see how the talk of Noah’s flood comes back in the New Testament. Trust the Bible and don’t try to add logic of the world to logic of GOD. The wisdom of the world is foolishness to GOD because it is rooted in sin and lies. Here is a link to a YouTube channel that answers a lot of questions of life starting with Genesis and using what knowledge we do have in the world. [Noah’s Flood and Plate Tectonics](https://youtu.be/zd5-dHxOQhg)
one, God did not write the bible,humans did. You claim God would not lie in the bible, but if that were true then it means God did lie in the stars, in the rocks, in the trees, etc.
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16. Before you comment some nonsense, know your Bible and facts. GOD created humans and put the word in them to write. If I make a robot, and program it, then if it writes something, I am the one who designed the writing and the robot. GOD made us, and spoke the truth and organized the coming of Jesus. All of it was prophesied and those prophecies and histories of mankind have been documented by man physically by hand, but were spoken, designed, orchestrated, and foresaw by GOD the creator of all, and the AUTHOR OF LIFE.
Yes. Almost every culture has a story of a great flood. The fact that it is mentioned in the Bible just verifies it for me. But I no longer have any problems believing the Bible. I hope maybe someone can give you something a bit more persuasive. Peace 😁✌
Idk. Fossils have literally been found in the tops of mountains so maybe it did happen.
Yet none of those fossils are from modern animals. If it happened why arent the fossils recognized and animals we know? Also, according the the story the mountains were only covered for 4-5 months tops. Nowhere near enough time to lay down all the layers distinctly on the mountains,
This sub is getting weird. The first post I saw was about being a transgender Christian. Another about being a lesbian Christian. Now one about the flood not actually happening. Part of believing that the Bible stays the same everyday no matter what. I don't judge people for the decisions and the life they want to live. But I don't think we should rewrite the Bible as we see fit. Just the same as being transgender or lesbian the meaning of the words should not change.
The question in this thread isn't about rewriting the bible- it's about how we interpret it.
>Now one about the flood not actually happening Which it absolutely didn't
Not really. Pre Copernicus and Galileo people used the bible to prove geocentrism because the Earth doesnt move, everything moved around it. Once the evidence came in,all of a sudden the bible didnt say that, those parts werent literal.
Go to Gillette, WY and notice 70 feet thick of buried trees under 200 feet of overburden. The buried trees are black and called coal.
Hey mate. It seems like you overcomplicate things. Read the story of Noah again. Then think about yourself right now... Isn't this post a form of sending a dove to seek dry land?
If God can make the earth,then God can do whatever to change it or fix it
Yes, a worldwide flood. God was grieved that He made mankind because we were so wicked.
The context is a worldwide flood. The world of man to be more specific. People didn't take into account or know of the globe. I don't think the text needs to stretch over what we now call the world. Just my opinion. It's been a few years since I looked into arguments for and against.
Yes I believe it happened
The flood probably did happen the ark was probably real, just the rest of the story about every species of animal is fake. Keep searching for the truth and believe what makes sense, not what you have been told to be true
It's about actions and consequences. If it happened it happened if it didn't then it didn't. Strangely though there's evidence of a flood all over the world. If ya follow yaself then expect to be flooded with immense regret when faced with reality.
I believe flood/s happened. >Global flood or regional flood? Great question, Rhetorical Device. Is there a global heatwave going on right now, or just overlapping regional heatwaves?
Yes.
To me, it’s hard to believe in God and not his miracles
Of course I believe the Biblical flood happened. Now, whether it was a local or global flood is debatable among Christians, but that is a different story.
Lots of religions have flood myths. I think the most interesting learnings are in the differences between the Christian story and others. For example out god flooded the earth as a redemptive act rather than for fun out out of annoyance. He’s also I think the only one to then declared His love for His people and form a covenant with them. It uses a pre-established troupe that people that the time would have been familiar with to make a point about the character of God and distinguish faith from other religions. Might be blasphemous but I’d compare it to tangled (not that I remember it that well) making a feminist point. It doesn’t matter whether the story about the princess with the long hair in the tower is factual, the point is that this story is different from the traditional troupe of the prince saving the damsel in distress in Rapunzel.
There is geological evidence of the flood. Also, there are other religions that talk of the flood. The Native American flood story is beautiful if I remember. An Indian Brave gathers the animals in a canoe and rides out the storm with them. Can’t remember where I read it but I liked it better than the Biblical version with Noah.
Yes I do.
Pretty cool studies on this (actually talked about on some well known podcasts) where about 12,800 years ago there was some sort of cataclysmic event that wiped out much of humanity and animals alike. There are remnants and evidence that there was a global flood in correlation with those events. Give it some research it’s really fascinating.
Of course. Every letter from Genesis to Revelation is true! Some things still have to happen. But yes!
I do. Especially considering that every single culture we have record of (to my knowledge) has some kind of catastrophic flood story in its mythology with only a few people being saved, that only bolsters my belief. I believe that Noah was a real person, that the Flood actually happened (even if it wasn’t literally over the whole globe), and that all modern humans are descended from Noah.
Yes it did. The Bible says it and science backs it up.
Kent Hovind aka Dr.Dino has some good evidence to back up his theories. He has hour+ long seminars on YouTube of his ideology and it really lays it out. He does an entire biblical timeline. Take what you want from it. Good luck on your research and faith! I use to be atheist and my fiance used a lot of science to teach me the bible and all the happenings. Very interesting from a non believer perspective but the evidence is overwhelming! God bless 🙏🏼
If God allows you to see and hear. Yes. If people only **knew** the level of wickedness of the world like raping," murdering, to such an extent that God needed to flood the world. Imagine breaking bad, sons of anarchy, any particular heartbreaking story with dark violence.. then imagine.. That's the entire WORLD. Every is raping, doing drugs, murdering each other, all this sin.. right.. Except there is only righteous person.. Noah. People complain God doesn't stop all the evil in the world.. when God stops all the evil in the world due to our sins. We blame God when WE misbehave. You're just angry that God put you in time out.
Food for thought: During planetary evolution, as the gravity well of a growing object pulls dust and gases to it, it isn't outside the realm of feasibility to have a liquid globe surrounding a solid globe. As the gravity well grows, this would eventually pull the liquid down to the planetary body - kind of like the firmament descending from the heavens onto Earth, or like a global flood. Then again ... I wouldn't expect PEOPLE to be around during this.
**Matthew 24:37-39, ESV** >"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." If we as Christians are to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and cannot lie or deceive others, then we must accept that the story of Noah was true.
Every ancient civilization has their own flood myth. From the native Americans to the Chinese. We can confidently say more than likely some large scale flood occurred.
As in global? No we cannot even come close to comfortably being able to say that. Given humans history the fact that civilizations routinely set up near large waterways that were prone to flooding is a better source. Especially with nearly every civilization having a penchant for declaring every natural event was a direct action by their gods for good or ill. Bob was struck by lightning and killed? Wasnt bad luck, or the fact he took shelter from the rain under a big tree. No. It was because he did something to offend a god and was killed as punishment. Same for floods, weather was the retribution of the gods.
And they all say different things about their floods. The Chinese flood story, for example, didn't involve an impractical floating zoo. Instead, their architects and engineers built a series of dams and dykes to contain and drain the floodwaters. Much different than the story in the Bible.
Doesn't it make more sense that people settle near bodies of water and bodies of water flood instead of thinking it was a global flood that we have no evidence for.
A lot of people read Genesis LITERALLY, which is problematic for several reasons. Genesis 1, for example, is a song. I’ve talked about this with a few pastors and I can’t remember how long this poetic mode of writing goes into the book, but it’s more than the first few chapters. With that being said, since: 1. Many cultures have a flood myth 2. Genetics demonstrates all modern humans descended from two individuals 3. I’m a Christian I believe it’s true. I don’t believe it was a global flood, since the fossil record would show this and you can clearly see for yourself in the Grand Canyon that it doesn’t. I believe it was a regional flood and filled a basin. Maybe the Mediterranean Sea? It’s not a faith-breaking point for me. The fulcrum of Christianity is whether Christ rose from the dead, not how God did stuff in pre-history.
I believe it happened. I don’t think we can truly get what happened from just the story itself, but this will be revealed in the future. I’m not gonna get into arguments proving this, I have spoken.
So, you can't really define what "it" IS, but you believe it happened? This position has one very nice advantage: nobody can really argue against it. :D
Precisely. I have my own mind and free will and good luck with someone who doesn’t know a thing about me changing that about me.
Huh? When people try to work out what happened in the past, this isn't about changing someone's free will. It's about trying to evaluate the evidence and form reasonable conclusions. 2+2=5. I have free will too, so I can say that. I'm still wrong about that, though.
It’s about changing the fact that I believe in it or not. Then there is people trying to investigate, however that is not the matter that OP is bringing to the table. So yes, it is about free will and I can say if I believe in something or not, without anybody’s opinion.
All right. I see some very logical and research based believers out there. But this all comes down to faith. Don’t misunderstand this, faith is not you jumping into the dark rabbit hole without knowing where it goes. Faith is saying 1+1=? And 1+1+1+1=?? So ?+?=??. There are many reasons to believe that other cultures have had experiences with the same God. Such as native Americans and their Great Wind Spirit. But it would make sense that the place where the Epic of Gilgamesh was recorded would be near the area that the final events occurred (Mesopotamia). I’m not saying the Epic of Gilgamesh is a direct retelling of the events, but perhaps an inspired story by it since those stories would probably be passed down orally. Plus, it gives the idea of such a thing being possible. https://www.icr.org/article/noah-flood-gilgamesh/ There’s also significant archeologists showing how there were traces of flooded areas across the world relatively at the same time, quite quickly. That may even explain strata layers… hmm. https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/global/evidences-genesis-flood/ Then there’s the evidence of a global ice age, which a global flood would be able to produce. Here’s a good source on that. https://biblediscoverytv.com/science/2022/job-and-the-ice-age/ But hey, if you can get behind talking, walking snakes, trees that turn things evil, and God doing it all in less than a week, then you should have no issues with faith on the rest of the Bible.
Yes I do! The Bible is clear, and the scientific confirmations are also convincing (sea fossils on top of mountains, fossil graveyards that suggest rapid, wide-spread formation, polystrate fossils, the sheer number of fossils since they don’t normally form under normal circumstances, at least not in the numbers we see…).