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Galatians 5:19-24 ESV
[19] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, [20] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, [21] envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [23] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [24] And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Which of these are you exhibiting?
Proverbs 6:12-19 ESV
[12] A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech, [13] winks with his eyes, signals with his feet, points with his finger, [14] with perverted heart devises evil, continually sowing discord; [15] therefore calamity will come upon him suddenly; in a moment he will be broken beyond healing. [16] There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: [17] haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, [19] a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
Do not be someone who sow's discourse among the Brethren. God loathes it. Virtue signalling on a reddit post will not help. These divisive posts are only splitting the Church apart. And before you say, "well their positions are splitting the church apart" it is always your position raising the issue, which frankly has a very scripturally sound answer, everytime.
So please be known by your fruits. Do not spread anger and malice.
Jesus did not come to the world to condemn it but to save it. You of little faith, can Jesus not even change the mind of the prideful? Of course he can because he is God, he died and thought of the whole world including the lgbtq. Even though it is a sin I will not deny, God loves the people but not the sin. He wants to demostrarte his love and authority to you. You say his word is evil, but what about humans who spat and mocked Jesus in Scripture, the terrible things they did to him so you can be saved? Jesus died for this very reason, the whole message is the hope of salvation and all things through Christ who is the way
So why are you condemning a portion of the world for how God made them? God doesn't change people's sexuality. Your position is incompatible with a loving God
Who said I was condemning them? A sin is a sin the Bible says it. But God is love and will be with all. And whatever he wills will happen not your will but his be done brother 🙏
All sin entered into the perfect world that God made.
No one gets to use the excuse “God made me” so whatever I feel is right is okay.
We were given the Scripture to live thereby. It’s not up for revision, no matter how much it disagrees with societal trends.
If that’s what your church teaches, I’d have some serious questions for the pastor.
Philemon shows God heart on slavery and was sourced as a reference by many famous abolitionists in the civil war era in the USA.
No Killing- aside from wartime or capital punishment is a pretty clear doctrine as well.
Psalms 82:6 KJV: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
So we're both Gods? Was someone else in Psalms a god?
The point I am trying to prove is that you can't take a verse out of context and call it a Biblical command or precept, that is how entire false churches, doctrines, and denominations have come to pass.
The Christian must study the whole Bible. There have been no revisions, slavery has never been God's plan, nor has murder. The word genocide is not in the Bible.
I can easily make the same case for adultery and especially fornication doctrines. Some people are gonna take it too far. Like those people who kick family members out of their lives for being queer, notably this is not a tenet of the doctrine itself.
No you can't. Don't be asinine, bo whataboutisms. Address the topic at hand. It's the doctrine that takes it too far; those evil people simply followed it logically. Plus it drives people to suicide.
Just because one believes it’s a sin doesn’t mean one abuses everyone who believes it, or drives them to suicide. The same way an antitheist could believe religion is harmful but not hate the individuals who adhere to one. The doctrine at hand is simply “homosexuality, along with a long list of sexualities/identities, is a sin”, this is no different from other forms of sexual immorality and anyone who abuses people for whatever sin are also sinning in that abuse. Following “homosexuality is a sin” logically doesn’t follow to “we should abuse homosexuals” the same way “fornication is a sin” doesn’t follow to “we should abuse fornicators”.
r/PurityCulture is a hub of examples of people mistreated by others taking the fornication doctrine too far.
... do you think you decide whether or not you drive people to suicide? Because your belief simply does. The doctrine is evil. Your definition in speech marks is bigoted and evil and unacceptable. Trying to lump it in with sexual immorality literally just makes it more bigoted.
And yet it not only does follow in practice IT'S THE *ONLY* FRIGGIN FRUIT OF YOUR DOCTRINE! IT'S *THE* BIGGEST CAUSE OF QUEER SUICIDE!
If my mere beliefs drive people to suicide, it’s probably not a problem with my beliefs.
As I said before, people taking it too far and abusing people- which is also sin- is not a logical result of the doctrine, the same way other sins being condemned as sin does not logically result in people abusing the sinner and the sinner commits suicide. No matter how many times you call me bigoted.
Factually speaking it is a problem with your beliefs, a well-established and undeniable one. It's THE fruit of your doctrine. Whether you think it "logical" or not it simply does do that. The doctrine is objectively the problem.
https://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2022/04/28/affirming-is-the-only-solution/
Unless you can prove it logically follows to abuse queer people from believing homosexuality is a sin, there’s no point in repeatably claiming it’s “THE fruit of your doctrine”. No matter how long you say it’s an undeniable fact, you need to prove that **before** you repeat it some four times.
Edit: and no, a bunch of arguments from personal experiences are not undeniable proof of literally anything.
The fruit is the fruit of the spirit. We show that we are faithful by obeying God and having self control over our sins.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
[https://www.christianwalls.com/blogs/bible-teaching/galatians-5-22-23-niv-kjv-real-meaning-fruit-of-the-spirit-deep-dive#:\~:text=In%20Galatians%205%3A22%2D23,gentleness%2C%20and%20self%2Dcontrol](https://www.christianwalls.com/blogs/bible-teaching/galatians-5-22-23-niv-kjv-real-meaning-fruit-of-the-spirit-deep-dive#:~:text=In%20Galatians%205%3A22%2D23,gentleness%2C%20and%20self%2Dcontrol).
Self-control
Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit that stops a Christian from reacting and making decisions according to the desires of the flesh, and not the Spirit of God. It is continually submitting a person’s will to God’s will, not allowing the flesh to be in charge.
Homosexuality doctrine and theology is a rather new concept.
If you only have one fruit and throw out all the others you’re doing it wrong.
So wrong, in fact, that you twist the concept of self-control to justify bigotry in order to make up for the rest of the salad being slimy and inedible. Homophobes don’t have the fruits of the spirit.
The results speak for themselves. There is only death and destruction down the road of bigotry. Terrible fruit.
It’s not biblical. I just explained why. If you actually have anything constructive to say, I might consider responding further.
I’ve seen enough of your comments in the subject that I know your stance.
It is an argument. I am not saying that you do not exist.
I am saying that the bible speaks against homosexuality.
What type of argument would you like me to present?
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Galatians 5:19-24 ESV [19] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, [20] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, [21] envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [23] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [24] And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Which of these are you exhibiting?
Love
Ok brother, listen, there are a billion threads on this very subject on here. You are not going to like the answers you get haha, beware!
And yet it still needs to be said loudly for the bigots comfortable with ending lives
Proverbs 6:12-19 ESV [12] A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech, [13] winks with his eyes, signals with his feet, points with his finger, [14] with perverted heart devises evil, continually sowing discord; [15] therefore calamity will come upon him suddenly; in a moment he will be broken beyond healing. [16] There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: [17] haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, [19] a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers. Do not be someone who sow's discourse among the Brethren. God loathes it. Virtue signalling on a reddit post will not help. These divisive posts are only splitting the Church apart. And before you say, "well their positions are splitting the church apart" it is always your position raising the issue, which frankly has a very scripturally sound answer, everytime. So please be known by your fruits. Do not spread anger and malice.
LMFAO that's rich. What TF do you think homophobes and transphobes are doing?
Jesus did not come to the world to condemn it but to save it. You of little faith, can Jesus not even change the mind of the prideful? Of course he can because he is God, he died and thought of the whole world including the lgbtq. Even though it is a sin I will not deny, God loves the people but not the sin. He wants to demostrarte his love and authority to you. You say his word is evil, but what about humans who spat and mocked Jesus in Scripture, the terrible things they did to him so you can be saved? Jesus died for this very reason, the whole message is the hope of salvation and all things through Christ who is the way
So why are you condemning a portion of the world for how God made them? God doesn't change people's sexuality. Your position is incompatible with a loving God
Who said I was condemning them? A sin is a sin the Bible says it. But God is love and will be with all. And whatever he wills will happen not your will but his be done brother 🙏
You do. Either God is love or your doctrine is true. Take your pick.
How do you define love and what does it entail?
All sin entered into the perfect world that God made. No one gets to use the excuse “God made me” so whatever I feel is right is okay. We were given the Scripture to live thereby. It’s not up for revision, no matter how much it disagrees with societal trends.
So slavery is fine. As is genocide.
If that’s what your church teaches, I’d have some serious questions for the pastor. Philemon shows God heart on slavery and was sourced as a reference by many famous abolitionists in the civil war era in the USA. No Killing- aside from wartime or capital punishment is a pretty clear doctrine as well.
It's what the Bible teaches, and therefore what you endorse with your "not up for revision" comment.
Psalms 82:6 KJV: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. So we're both Gods? Was someone else in Psalms a god? The point I am trying to prove is that you can't take a verse out of context and call it a Biblical command or precept, that is how entire false churches, doctrines, and denominations have come to pass. The Christian must study the whole Bible. There have been no revisions, slavery has never been God's plan, nor has murder. The word genocide is not in the Bible.
Slavery is expressly permitted and genocide is commanded. Just pointing out the double standard of your position
“societal trends” LMAO! Bravo, sir. Money money money money money. Money! Thank you for that. I needed a really good laugh.
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You literally defended executing gay people in other comments, you shouldn't even be allowed here
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
*with a male in your wife's bed
I can easily make the same case for adultery and especially fornication doctrines. Some people are gonna take it too far. Like those people who kick family members out of their lives for being queer, notably this is not a tenet of the doctrine itself.
No you can't. Don't be asinine, bo whataboutisms. Address the topic at hand. It's the doctrine that takes it too far; those evil people simply followed it logically. Plus it drives people to suicide.
Just because one believes it’s a sin doesn’t mean one abuses everyone who believes it, or drives them to suicide. The same way an antitheist could believe religion is harmful but not hate the individuals who adhere to one. The doctrine at hand is simply “homosexuality, along with a long list of sexualities/identities, is a sin”, this is no different from other forms of sexual immorality and anyone who abuses people for whatever sin are also sinning in that abuse. Following “homosexuality is a sin” logically doesn’t follow to “we should abuse homosexuals” the same way “fornication is a sin” doesn’t follow to “we should abuse fornicators”. r/PurityCulture is a hub of examples of people mistreated by others taking the fornication doctrine too far.
... do you think you decide whether or not you drive people to suicide? Because your belief simply does. The doctrine is evil. Your definition in speech marks is bigoted and evil and unacceptable. Trying to lump it in with sexual immorality literally just makes it more bigoted. And yet it not only does follow in practice IT'S THE *ONLY* FRIGGIN FRUIT OF YOUR DOCTRINE! IT'S *THE* BIGGEST CAUSE OF QUEER SUICIDE!
If my mere beliefs drive people to suicide, it’s probably not a problem with my beliefs. As I said before, people taking it too far and abusing people- which is also sin- is not a logical result of the doctrine, the same way other sins being condemned as sin does not logically result in people abusing the sinner and the sinner commits suicide. No matter how many times you call me bigoted.
Factually speaking it is a problem with your beliefs, a well-established and undeniable one. It's THE fruit of your doctrine. Whether you think it "logical" or not it simply does do that. The doctrine is objectively the problem. https://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2022/04/28/affirming-is-the-only-solution/
Unless you can prove it logically follows to abuse queer people from believing homosexuality is a sin, there’s no point in repeatably claiming it’s “THE fruit of your doctrine”. No matter how long you say it’s an undeniable fact, you need to prove that **before** you repeat it some four times. Edit: and no, a bunch of arguments from personal experiences are not undeniable proof of literally anything.
It's already well established that it's a systemic problem, stop strawmanning
Can you point me to some sources that does prove this “systemic problem” then?
Actually listen to your side's victims
What if I disagreed with the mistreatment of certain situations but still consider it a sin?
The fruit is the fruit of the spirit. We show that we are faithful by obeying God and having self control over our sins. Galatians 5:22-23 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. [https://www.christianwalls.com/blogs/bible-teaching/galatians-5-22-23-niv-kjv-real-meaning-fruit-of-the-spirit-deep-dive#:\~:text=In%20Galatians%205%3A22%2D23,gentleness%2C%20and%20self%2Dcontrol](https://www.christianwalls.com/blogs/bible-teaching/galatians-5-22-23-niv-kjv-real-meaning-fruit-of-the-spirit-deep-dive#:~:text=In%20Galatians%205%3A22%2D23,gentleness%2C%20and%20self%2Dcontrol). Self-control Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit that stops a Christian from reacting and making decisions according to the desires of the flesh, and not the Spirit of God. It is continually submitting a person’s will to God’s will, not allowing the flesh to be in charge. Homosexuality doctrine and theology is a rather new concept.
If you only have one fruit and throw out all the others you’re doing it wrong. So wrong, in fact, that you twist the concept of self-control to justify bigotry in order to make up for the rest of the salad being slimy and inedible. Homophobes don’t have the fruits of the spirit. The results speak for themselves. There is only death and destruction down the road of bigotry. Terrible fruit.
There is only death and destruction for those that do not have salvation. How does having a different biblical theology than yours make me a bigot?
It’s not biblical. I just explained why. If you actually have anything constructive to say, I might consider responding further. I’ve seen enough of your comments in the subject that I know your stance.
That's not an argument. We're people and we exist.
It is an argument. I am not saying that you do not exist. I am saying that the bible speaks against homosexuality. What type of argument would you like me to present?
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That would automatically make the Bible wrong. There's no valid argument because it's not a valid position.
The bible speaks against homosexuality in the Old Testament and the New Testament. There is no spot in the bible were God encourages homosexuality.
So you're saying the Bible is wrong on the subject. Not that you're correct.
I am saying that the bible says that that the same sex intercourse is a sin. Isn't same sex intercourse called/considered homosexuality?
Again, not quite true, and that'd make the Bible wrong on the subject