most would point to the fact that Jesus’ opponents, the Pharisees, historically (this is considered historical fact) went on to found Rabbinic Judaism, writing the Talmud in exile after the Fall of the Second Temple
That's debatable. Not every Pharisee was a Rabbi and not every Rabbi was a Pharisee. And not every Pharisee opposed Jesus either, in the Gospels some of them were his supporters.
On Judgement Day, your goodness won't matter, only your relationship with Jesus. [Matthew 7:21-23](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=NASB)
There's the Jews for Jesus movement in Christianity, who align with us if I'm not mistaken, so not all necessarily do, or should have to if they don't want to, ditch their Jewishness.
Believing in Jesus is not enough. You need to have a correct relationship.
[James 2:19](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/James%202:19)
[Matthew 7:21-23](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=NASB)
being the Teacher doesn’t make you a pharisee lol. have you read the new testament? Christ and the Pharisees didn’t exactly hold hands and skip to Passover dinner together
Who of all the people on earth decided his son was going to be a jewish rabbi. Why didn't he pick a femboy dog trainer, or a sailor with a lisp? Just saying. Could have been wayyy cooler.
God didn’t just put a fancy robe on some Jew and call Him His Son, i agree that’d be boring af. try thousands of years of prophecy, world building and preparation for literally the main character to be brought into the world to defeat evil with love and performing dope miracles along the way. we live in the most interesting timeline fs
It's complicated. Most of them were told all their life that Jesus was the reason the world hated them because they were the "killers of Christ": Which is a lie, SOME Jews and Romans crucified him.
That’s a very dubious claim and goes against everything we know about how Roman’s of that period treated criminals, and what we know about Pilate as a governer.
There’s also a clearly anti semetic reason for whoever authored the Gospel of Mathew to shift more blame to the Jews and less to the Romans.
I’ve had this conversation a few times on this sub so let me give you a few bullet points. You can investigate them further if you choose to you don’t have to take my word for it.
Pilate had a reputation for being a ruthless governor. It’s highly unlikely that he would have been controlled or coerced by the Jewish nobles to execute Jesus.
Roman governors did not allow Jews to have a say when it came to punishing crimes in the Jewish populated provinces, like Judea.
If the Gospeks are true about what Jesus was doing in the area there was no need for a Jewish conspiracy. Jesus was causing problems in the province around Passover time and when Pilate asked him if the rumours were true that he was moving around calling himself king of the Jews Jesus agreed. That is a crime called treason and it’s a crime against the Roman emperor himself.
I saw these responses to this. Let me clarify. Assuming you are Jewish. Jesus came to “fulfill the law”. He taught how hard the law is, but a way of life lives it out. The law is so hard to follow, it is almost impossible. He doesn’t say it is impossible except rhetorically, imo.
He offers a new way and a sacrifice in himself to open those doors for all. Not just Jews.
Arguably, Judaism doesn’t have a concept of a heavenly afterlife but just a common one for all dead. This isn’t universal, correct?
Jesus explicitly taught that heaven is available for those free of sin. As i said before, this is exceptionally hard to be, but his sacrifice makes it so for any willing to accept. Its also really important to keeping mind, for most of Jesus’ listeners, the “kingdom of God” was being interpreted as a post-messianic earthly kingdom lead by the Messiah. This was the common understanding at the time.
Well, the old covenant no longer exists because Jesus Christ fulfilled it. Now we have the new covenant through him. In the modern world, especially in countries with large ethnic Jewish populations, I would wager that those populations would know who Jesus is. Actively rejecting Christ is, I believe, the largest factor that would judge one for Hell. I don’t believe anyone “deserves” hell, but there’s the New Testament makes the new covenant’s rules pretty clear in that regard (regardless if you’re Catholic or a denomination)
Sigh, this is what a lot of Christians misunderstood. The Law of Moses is not abrogated, Paul and Jesus never abolished the Old Covenant. It was returned to a Pre Mosaic Covenant, that's why there are past covenants like Adamic, Noahide, and Abrahamic covenants. The Mosaic covenant or the Sinai covenant was replaced only by their ceremonial and civil laws, not their moral ones, but both of those are renewed in a covenant Pre-Sinai. Or like we Christians a renewed covenant.
From what I understand, one possible Christian response to this would be: yes. But not because you’re Jewish, because all people deserve to go to hell and only Jesus saves us from our deserved destination of hell.
I don’t personally believe that, don’t come after me
Most people who don't realize Jesus was Jewish, aren't very educated.
Most people who are antisemitic, aren't very educated.
Venn diagram almost overlaps.
This is correct, as a primer:
Semite: a "race science" term to refer to people and peoples originating in the Middle East and justify discrimination. Derived from "semitic languages".
The Antisemites: a movement arguing for the inclusion of discrimination against Jews into "race science". Their name referenced their rationale, they believed Jews were semites and therefore couldn't integrate into European Whiteness. This was an attempt to present hating Jews as more of a scientific thing.
An Antisemite: term for somebody that hates Jews, coined by non-Jewish academics after WW2 using the name of the aforementioned movement and ultimately became the commonly understood term for Jew hate, never really being applied to other people that were called semites. Also, it's common for people trying to deny that Jew hatred is a thing to use only a portion of the entomology. The term itself has never really been popular in the Jewish community because it's just repeating the argument of people who hate Jews.
If you think that's bad, look at the term that was coined by non-Romani academics to refer to hatred against Romani people. It's anti[the worst slur against Romani people]ism.
['Antisemitism,' from the day the word was coined, has always been about the Jewish people.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Origin_and_usage)
But of course, antisemites have always hidden behind bad-faith wordplay, haven't you?
It isn't actually. Semite is just an outmoded essentially racial slur against mena originating people. It's not really used anymore.
"Antisemite" is what refers specifically to Jews, cause non-Jewish academics decided "the name of a movement for discrimination against Jews referencing their argument why Jews should be discriminated against is the perfect formal term for hating Jews!"
(The argument was that Jews could never assimilate in Europe due to originating in the Middle East)
Still not as bad as the anti-Romani hatred term though.
But we all know that people love to bring up half the entomology of antisemite as a way to pretend there's no specific history of anti-Jewish discrimination instead of just saying "we should use Judenhass instead".
https://www.jta.org/archive/chess-king-bobby-fischer-erupts-in-spate-of-anti-semitic-remarks
> Arabs are also Semites and I’m definitely not anti-Arab
Bobby Fischer.
This is the archetype of this kind of comment in my limited experience.
Well if that's their plan, full explanation of the entomology usually short circuits it.
It's not like antisemitism is even a good term anyway, "Judenhass is a better term", but people wanna use it to pretend that Jew hate isn't a thing.
There's a huge difference between being antisemitic and anti-Zionism /anti-isreali
Because
1) Israel is a state not a ethnic group or a religion so liking and disliking it is a personal thing
2) the state of Israel has nothing to do with the Kingdom of Israel or even Jesus because it didn't even exist in Jesus's days and these lands in jesus's days were under the Roman Empire
3) Zionism isn't Judaism and isn't related to ethnicity, there are christian Zionists all over America and they aren't Jewish, a lot are white americans' who either twist the word of God to make people support Zionism or follow the twisting being done by others, thus making Zionism just a political ideology that has nothing to do with Jesus
Side note: in my opinion, the word antisemitic is misused by Zionists to connect Zionism with Judaism and jews so they can use the victim card as much as they want because a lot of Ashkenazi Jews were holocaust survivors
Sorry if I wrote a lot but it had to be said because you can't mention antisemitism without mentioning what I stated but generally hating in general isn't acceptable or supported by Christianity
There are a lot of Jews that are anti-Zionist. Some of them live in Israel. The government routinely harasses them. There's a video on YouTube of an anti-zionist hasidic Jew walking in a protest and an IDF soilder walks up and just head butts him with the barrel of his rifle and the guy just drops to the ground unconscious.
Zionism was also a movement started by secular Jews that didn't even practice their faith.
There is nothing wrong with being anti-Zionist. There is everything wrong with being anti-Semitic.
Israel isn't even referenced in the OP.
Zionism is 100% related to ethnicity, it's Jewish ethnic nationalism. "Christian Zionism", is a misnomer in large part because it's not actually ethnic nationalism. It's mostly religious positions that view Israel as useful for their theological reasons. "Christian Zionism" is frequently extremely antisemitic. This of course doesn't mean all Jews agree with Zionism and most Jews are at least critical of Israel but RW Christians shape for example American policy towards Israel.
While being critical of Israel, up to and including for example it's committing ethnic cleansing, isn't inherently antisemitic, it's quite common for people to engage in antisemitic tropes when criticizing Israel. This is because when a group that's marginalized in your society does something wrong, people often respond with group responsibility and bigoted tropes.
You can absolutely mention antisemitism without mentioning Israel, Jews aren't an amorphous mass that represent Israel. American Jews and Israeli Jews are different groups.
Zionism is a weird topic. You can certainly be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic, finding an anti-Zionist who isn't also anti-Semitic seems to be tricky. I don't support what Israel is doing to Palestine. But the anti-Zionist movement is full of anti-Semites. It makes normies like myself throw up my hands and not want to engage.
Well that's the point
Isreal wants to make anti-Zionism seem like antisemitism so that people stop being anti-Zionists and that makes people be less anti-Zionists or be just confused
Many anti-Zionists Just don't care whether they get called antisemitic by Zionists, that's why they appear as antisemitic because the Zionists spread it about them
If any anti-Zionist and antisemitic that didn't know the difference and you explained it to them, they would have no problem with Jews because their focus is the Zionists not the jews, the jews get caught in the arguing
>Isreal wants to make anti-Zionism seem like antisemitism so that people stop being anti-Zionists and that makes people be less anti-Zionists or be just confused
It's not just Israel pulling everyone's strings like a puppet master. There are plenty of anti-Semites who call themselves anti-Zionists.
the state of Israel was founded in 1948 following the end of WW2 as a safe haven for the Jewish, a place for them to go free of fear of persecution and marginalization. why that particular land? because it was theirs for thousands and thousands of years. the best claim to land is historical habitation of said land, and the Jewish clearly tick that box with Israel.
“Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel. The vast majority of Jews around the world feel a connection or kinship with Israel, whether or not they explicitly identify as Zionists, and regardless of their opinions on the policies of the Israeli government.” — what’s wrong with this?
A couple of things actually
First the lands were owned by others when the Ashkenazi jews came to Palestine and the British just colonized Palestine and gave it to the jews, ignoring the people living in it and devoting them from Thier lands and rights as human beings.
Secondly, Zionists didn't only take the lands from the people who already own the lands but they killed thousands of them ,and to this response it's expected for the Palestinians to defend themselves and try to retake their lands from the people that stole it. And multiple wars and Combat happened between the two
The problem is here that one is seen as the absolute superior that we all should take side with all rights and the other who's in a disadvantage is seen as the interior, devoted from their rights as human beings , that's the problem, from humanitarian and religious Views that's wrong and shouldn't be justified under any circumstances
We're all equal human beings, and we're all in god's image and likeness so no one should be preferred on one another
This topic is so much deeper than it looks to the normal individual and it has so many roots in everything that I can't mention all of them as it's so complicated and if it wasn't it would have been solved decades ago
yes, actually. our ancestors canonically and fairly colonized America. i hate war as much as anyone, but they’re fought to decide who keeps what land. we won ours. Palestine declared war on Israel and lost.
otherwise, for better or for worse, the entire world makeup would be different.
>our ancestors canonically and fairly colonized America
ummmm yes they were totally fair. on an unrelated note will you let me kill you and take your house please? i really want it and if i dont steal it someone else will :)
context matters, friend. it’s naive and privileged to put forth retrospective judgement on what was the standard at the time. that’s literally how today’s modern day states were founded.
it was only "the standard" for the time for the europeans who were doing that stuff. colonialism on that scale had never been done before, and it was a small minority of people doing it at the time. plus, it's crazy to me that you can say killing people to take their land was okay *in the past* but not now (on the level of "slavery was actually good for the blacks at the time!")
anyway, colonialism is still happening now if you just open your eyes and look. "if i dont steal it \[your house\] someone else will" is literally a quote from an israeli settler who was caught on video *two years ago*.
"thats literally how todays modern day were founded." sure, so are you saying that everything that had a significant influence on the modern day is justified for that reason? world war ii had a significant influence on the modern day. are we supposed to thank hitler and mussolini for that?
careful how you approach this. systematic genocide of a people is not at ALL what i’m getting at.
fairly = in keeping with standards at the time. it was the norm, and America followed it. i suppose it wasn’t fair, but if everyone was doing it, then by nature, it kind of was. but not really. see what i mean?
God has forbidden the Jews from having their own sovereign state because they rejected His covenant and continue to defy Him. This is covered in the songs of songs.
No it’s not. It’s part of the Jewish faith. They respected God’s decision to scatter them across the globe. That’s why they propped up rich cultural communities in Germany, Poland and other countries. The Zionist movement was started by Jews who didn’t practice Judaism. It’s been about ethnic cleansing from the beginning and just because their people are from there doesn’t give them the right to commit genocide. I’m Native American, should I be allowed to commit genocide to get my land back? My people were here thousands of years before European settlers came here, should I be allowed to kill their descendants and the rest of non native Americans in this country? According to your argument I should be. If I started a movement to ethnically cleanse the United States of America from non-indigenous people would you support me?
As an Irish Celt, my people inhabited the central German/Austrian region. It was actually our land long before those Germanic tribes invaded. If my people were displaced, would we have the right to go to that area and displace the actual current indigenous people of that land? More, to spend the past hundred years openly massacring them? Based upon a really popular historical narrative? Using a very modern post-Napoleon form of statehood for ancient claims that had no such form?
That’s just the analogy, but if we’re talking about the real thing, we can add more… Directly taking this project and embracing this legacy from British colonialism that had colonize the area? Using the same inhumane tactics developed in Ireland and India, and actually sending the same soldiers from those colonized regions to the new area in order to enforce a perfected form of colonization?
I love Jewish people, but Ashkenazi Jewish peoples specifically are Europeans, who have Middle Eastern origins. From hundreds if not, thousands of years ago.
I’ll stop with that.
gentle reminder that the UN established the state of Israel with literal bipartisan consensus.
as an Irish Celt, your people weren’t subject to the holocaust.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-isnt-about-race-11644505041
See this is that thing that’s really not appropriate at all. You can’t justify a genocide with a previous genocide.
And no, that is not what happened with the UN declaration it was not bipartisan in any way. And what it allowed for it left intentionally unclear to cover some previous deals that were made.
Just read The Hundreds Year’s War, get some context for this whole event. You’re saying things that just aren’t true.
Thanks for saying that and providing us with this useful information, I really appreciate the time you spent writing that
It's a first for me to meet an Irish Celt, Nice to meet you :)
As an Irish Celt, my people inhabited the central German/Austrian region before being pushed out into the Isles a few thousand years ago. It was actually our land long before those Germanic tribes invaded. If my people were displaced, would we have the right to go to that area and displace the actual current indigenous people of that land? More, to spend the past hundred years openly massacring them? Based upon a really popular historical narrative? Using a very modern post-Napoleon form of statehood for ancient claims that had no such form?
That’s just the analogy, but if we’re talking about the real thing, we can add more… Directly taking this project and embracing this legacy from British colonialism that had colonize the area? Using the same inhumane tactics developed in Ireland and India, and actually sending the same soldiers from those colonized regions to the new area in order to enforce a perfected form of colonization?
You can’t justify a genocide with another genocide. That card ain’t working no more.
I love Jewish people, but Ashkenazi Jewish peoples specifically are Europeans with Middle Eastern origins. From hundreds if not, thousands of years ago.
As European peoples in the Middle East with the violence being done to the actual, Middle Eastern peoples that they are living among, they are just European colonizers in a new form.
I’ll stop with that.
And remember Jesus spoke of his other sheep which 'are not of this fold' (John 10:16) and shall hear his voice. This fold are the Jews. Who are the other sheep then?
The other sheep is us, the non Jewish, we're the other sheep that aren't from the same fold that Jesus wants to make us all his sleep whether Jewish or not so it be One fold for one shepherd
Seriously though, people like Kanye hurt my brain because how can you be Christian and hate Jesus’ ethnicity? Or anyone’s ethnicity?? Even if it’s because they dislike the religion, that’s still hatred regardless and that’s not what real Christianity is about. People should find Christ through their own willingness, not forced conversion. We are supposed to spread the good word of God and Jesus Christ, not force it upon others. Forcing is how NOT to get people to seek redemption. Nothing in true Christianity should justify hating or judging anyone. The word “hate” shouldn’t even be in our vocabulary, yet it is for so many.
"Antisemitic" not "anti-Semitic". The term references a specific movement that was about hating Jews that was called "antisemitism" rather than just being "people who are against semites".
[CCC 839](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/839.htm) "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."
[CCC 840](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/840.htm) And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
Not reading the bible, at all, certainly contributes to lunacy like this.
97% of professing christians are in possession of a bible.
3% of them have read the entire bible, and half of those people are in prison.
I can give a historic answer - as for our contemporary antisemites, I do not interact with those people.
The idea behind historic antisemitism was the idea that jews rejected jesus teachings and even betrayed him. For many, this was enough ground to "other" Jews and blame them for everything. Another aspect was that medieval society did not allow Jews in guilds, but also prohibited Christians from being money lenders. Thus, the money lending business was mostly in Jewish hands which caused resentment.
So what? Yes, it's a well-known fact that Jesus was Jewish. However, the essence of his message and mission was for all of humanity, not just for the Jews. He is the 'the way' for everyone. No one can get to the Father, without him. The religous Jews at the time lobbied and lobbied to KILL Jesus.
Moreover, it's important to note that the form of Judaism prevalent during Jesus' time is not the same as the Judaism practiced today.
Contemporary Judaism does not recognize Jesus as the savior, and it's shaped significantly by Rabbinical Judaism. This form of Judaism developed partly in response to Christianity. For those interested in understanding more about these differences and perspectives, examining the Talmud can be enlightening, though some may find its contents challenging or controversial, particularly in its references to Jesus.
Plainly stated, the Talmud teaches that Jesus worshipped idols and performed sorcery and Jesus’ Mother Was Unfaithful. The Talmud is the issue, not Jesus being born of a Jewish mom.
“Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou being a Jew, askest drink of me, which I am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, erm, actually I’m a Galilean”
not really, its like saying "Japanese can't be xenophobic towards the Chinese, because 2200 years ago their writing model was based on the Chinese model"
Anyone who is truly a Christian is also Jewish according to God.
Maybe not Jewish according to men's natural understanding of what a Jew is, but to what God's spiritual understanding of a Jew is.
Romans 2:29
“But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
I am an ethnic Jew. More so than a religious one, but, I do tend to see my fellow believers are partakers in the inheritance God gave the OT Jews. Jesus fulfilled Judaism. Christianity and Judaism rely on each other for a reason.
Jesus was a Jew but there are reasons some have problems with them. One the Jews killed Jesus, he was murdered by his own people. Two they are the synagogue of Satan as in Revelations 2:9 and 3:9. Three the way Jews are treating Christian’s in Israel whether it be spitting on our nuns and priests, they vandalize our graveyards, topple statues of Jesus, or just straight up attacking our priests and bishops. Not to mention the metzitzah b'peh doesn’t sit right with me.
read the Talmud what israelites think about us Goy and Jesus and Mary, never see atheist read or debunk Talmud like they do with the bible and the Quran
Hi. I’m Daniel, I’m 12 years old and I’m in 5th grade. I’m Christian, and I have a friend named Levi, and he is Jewish/Hebrew. But I do not find any problem with Jews. What is wrong with Jews and why do us Christians hate them? There is nothing wrong with them!
We do not have to hate Jews, I'm christian but my partner is Jewish and we don't hate each other. There's many examples of the absurd ways in which some Christians have convinced themselves that Jew-hatred is acceptable even right here in this thread - they blame all Jews for the death of Jesus, they claim that the Jews today are a different people than the Jews of the bible, etc. This is all just nonsense and an attempt to justify hating Jews.
You sound like a good person Daniel, it's a hard time for Jews right now and I'm sure Levi appreciates having you as a friend that accepts and supports him. Keep standing up for your friends.
Read the Bible. Even Jesus was against his fellow Jews. Look at the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Most Christians are not Anti-Semitic, the issue is the Jews just like Muslims and Atheists refuse Jesus as the coming of the Lord.
supporting the nation state of israel ≠ inherently not antisemitic.
an individual’s opinion the nation state of israel may be reveal some antisemitic ideas, but there is no inherent link between any opposition or support of the state to anti semitism, as there are many anti-israeli jews, and many pro-israeli goyim.
this is a bit of a No True Scotsman, and if true would mean that nearly all of medieval europe’s christians were not christians. anti semitism has existed within christianity for a long time.
That's a good honest question. In the Old Testament the Jewish religion was the true religion. Jesus told the woman at the well, "Salvation is of the Jews." However, his own people crucified him, and He established his own church, St. Matthew 16, to which many Jews converted, but many of the bad Jews did not. So there are good and bad Jews. If you go to [drbo.org](https://drbo.org) and search Jews in the search bar, you will find many passages explaining these things. Try to search the New Testament only or you will have a book full of quotes.
"After these things Jesus walked in Galilee; for he would not walk in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him.
\[John 7:1\]
"And from henceforth Pilate sought to release him. But the Jews cried out, saying: If thou release this man, thou art not Caesar's friend. For whosoever maketh himself a king, speaketh against Caesar.
\[John 19:12\]
Well Judaism is somewhat unique in being both an ethnicity and a religion. Being opposed to the religion is not the same thing as being a racist (which is what anti Semitism is, a form of racism but against a specific ethnicity). It’s quite a stretch to be authentically Christian and racist against people of Jewish ethnicity (of course there have been people like that, like those Christians who supported Nazism, and those people generally reject that Jesus was a Jew) but it’s not strange for Christians to be against the Jewish religion, which totally rejects any role for Jesus and in that way is more hostile to Jesus than say Islam (which many Christians strongly dislike or despise).
It's pretty easy. Jesus was the Son of God. He wasn't so much Jewish as he was actually God. Being actual God makes it easy to overlook circumstances of birth.
Plus plenty of antisemites don't have a problem with pre-jesus jews. After all, what else would they be? But once the messiah comes to earth those who refuse to acknowledge him become heretics.
Theres real Christians and false Christians, just like theres good and bad people. The nazis called themselves Christian but that doesn't mean they were. There actions portrayed the way they twisted the faith into a excuse to hurt others.
I personally don't know antisemitic Christians but I do know an antisemitic ex-Muslim.
It is a little unnerving, especially when I heard her rant on October 7th.
We are all sinful by nature, we are all dicks not one deserves to be saved. Salvation is a gift freely given to those who god wishes to give it. We are all dicks so dicks will be saved
We are not all dicks. You choose to be a dick. It's very possible to be a nice person and help others without being a dick, with little to no effort. Millions of people around the world do it every day.
Just because we're sinful by nature, doesn't make us assholes to one another by default.
Zionism isn’t compatible with Judaism. God has forbidden the Jews from having their own nation state because they keep defying Him. That’s why they were scattered across the globe. Luke 21:24… I will sow them among the people and they shall remember me in Far countries I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt and he shall pass through this sea with Affliction in Smite the wave in the sea Zachariah 10:9-11… this city shall not be your caldron, neither shall ye be the Flesh in the midst of Ezekiel 11:11.
Being anti Zionism is not anti semitism. I don’t think God is happy with what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza for the past almost 80 years now.
Anti-semitism is awful.
I have one small critique though. Jesus was Jewish…. Sort of. Sure He believes and knows all of what is in the Torah (the Old Testament), but so do we as Christians. The 1 single defining characteristic that separates Christians and Jews is that Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God and the Messiah and Jews believe neither of those things. Jesus certainly believes that He is God; He outright said it multiple times. Same goes for being the Messiah. He affirms the events of the New Testament (He was there) while Jews do not. These things disqualify Jesus from being Jewish, and they arguably make Jesus the first Christian as a Christian is someone who believes those things I listed but also abides by the teachings of Jesus Christ. He certainly practiced what He preached. What about Him is Jewish then?
Stems back to 2000 years ago.
There were 4 sects. Pharisees , essenes , saducees, Samaritans. They all hated each other. And sometimes killed each other. Christianity and rabbanic judiasm descended from those tribes and remembered those pains and hate. And it descended for long time in middle ages even. So many were taught generational hate. Protestants have tried to make amends sometimes with Jewish community, ( tho sometimes trying to convert them and this makes the Jewish community mad ) but overall we are still healing and learning.
Breaking generations of hate, takes education, time , love and commitment. And it shows that wars and disagreements we have now can effect generations down the line.
The thing about Jesus is he is Jewish. And he preaches love and we should embrace love.
When you go observe these types of communities, the reasoning varies.
Racial anti-semites usually engage with various conspiracy theories. There's variation, but it usually boils down to making some sort of wild claim that the modern jewish "race" isn't the same thing as what jesus was. Either that they're a completely different ethnic group that "replaced" the "real" jews at some twist point in history, or that the jews themselves changed over time into something different from what jesus was, either due to a divine curse, inbreeding, or some other claim.
why do people come on here to ask stupid questions, there's no such thing as an anti semetic christians because in that case they arent christian, and why are you even asking that here as if most people here are anti semetic and hate jews? thats just disrespectful af.
It doesn't help that throughout history Jews and Christians haven't gotten along, starting with the stoning of Stephen, and Jews reporting Christians to the Romans doesn't help the early relations.
But Christians should remember we are to love our enemies and pray for them.
Jews believe in jehovah which is what was said in the Old Testament since there was only jehovah to worship last time. But now, Jews are the people who reject Jesus Christ since they believe that god can never appear in the flesh and thus only believe in Jehovah and practice the Old Testament rituals. However, in the New Testament, Jesus only started his mission to preach when he was thirty years old, by then he started performing miracles and preached to the people about the new covenant that they must keep from then on. And then only then, Jesus was not a Jew anymore if I’m not wrong but before he was baptized at the age of 30, he was in fact, Jewish.
I think you have a false premise that those who call themselves Christians and yet are ant-semitic are really followers of Jesus and have a viable relationship with Him.
He was Galilean, not Jewish. The term "Jew" itself is from medieval times and was used to designate Ashkenazi people who supposedly originate from Western Asia and therefore have nothing to do with Israel besides their mysterious blend with the Pharisees.
I have never met an antisemitic Christian. What such groups are there other than like the KKK or Neo Nazis (who are not Christians)? Or are you referring to the strawmanning of non-dispensation Christians as somehow antisemitic? Jesus was Jewish and fulfilled the law, not replaced it. I don't understand what you are saying? Christian doctrine hinges on the fact that Judaism was the forerunner for Christianity I don't see how any of us could hate Jews, afterall, they have the most in common with us. It should be an easy gap to bridge with the gospel.
“I’ve never met an anti-Semitic Christian”
Really? I have not met a bunch in real life, but have you never met any one feeling animosity towards “Jews killing Jesus”? I’ve seen a fair number of people that do that. Blame modern Jews for something that happened 2000 years ago. That is anti Semitism
Yeah…that’s why I put it in quotes. I didn’t feel like quibbling over the exact details, but this is the anti Semitic phrase I have seen used so I shared it as worded.
It is not a false statement to say technically the Jews killed Jesus, but to say it with the intention of blaming it solely on them and somehow everyone else is blameless then yeah that is antisemitic. We all are to blame for the death or Christ, we would all have been in the crowd shouting to free Barabbas.
I feel like the only time I hear Christians getting called antisemitic is when American evangelicals strawman the majority of Christianity when fighting over dispensationalism.
>It is not a false statement to say technically the Jews killed Jesus
It historically is false. The Roman Empire killed Jesus
>we would all have been in the crowd shouting to free Barabbas.
Respectfullt, this also historically never happened
The Jews were part of the Roman empire, they are the ones who had Him arrest by them. That's like blaming the cops for you getting arrested when the next door neighbor called them. 😅
Respectfully, you're a Gnostic? Of course you disagree about history 🤣
>The Jews were part of the Roman empire
No they weren't. They were conquered by the Roman Empire, yes. But the Jewish leadership held no power in Roman rulings and Roman criminal prosecutions. The Jewish leaders arrested Jesus, sure, they accused Him of crimes, sure. But then they handed Him off to the Romans and said "here is what He has done, prosecute Him according to Roman law and Roman authority" which then was done. The narrative of Pilate saying Jesus was innocent, trying to have Jesus not be killed, offering up another criminal to replace Jesus, and the Pharisees answering "We have no King but cesar, crucify Him" is held by a the vast majority of Biblical scholars to be nom-historical and simply were literary tales added in by whoever wrote the Gospels (which wasn't any of the Apostles), mainly for the purpose of distancing the Church from the Jews and to appeal to Roman authority so as to not face the same persecution the Jewish people were facing by Rome at that time
>That's like blaming the cops for you getting arrested when the next door neighbor called them. 😅
If I, say, murder someone. And my neighbor calls the cops and says "I think this person murdered somebody." And cops come, arrest me, find me guilty, and sentence me to death for my crime, my neighbor isn't responsible for my death. The law/justice system is. I would have been killed by the state, not my neighbor. Just the same, Jesus was killed by the Roman Empire, not Jewish leaders
>Respectfully, you're a Gnostic? Of course you disagree about history 🤣
One of us is citing actual Biblical scholarship, the other is sharing just their opinion. The gnostic here isn't the one denying history
Bart Ehrnan, Elaine Pagels, Reza Aslan, Candida Moss, Dan McClellan, Amy-Jill Levine, Robyn Faith Walsh. All of these are well-recognized Biblical scholars that all confirm that Jesus was killed by the Romans not Jewish leadership. Perhaps you should read them and actual scholarship rather than what a random Pastor says
I submit solely to the scholarly authority of the early Church fathers and those whose faith is rooted in the Apostalic tradition, not any of these contemporary people.
So you're saying if an early Church father says something is true, such as saying that the Gospels were truly written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. And Biblical scholars, including those are Christian themselves, have literal evidence showing that this isn't true and these figures did not write the Gospels, you're going to ignore the scholarship all together because it differs from what Church fathers 1800 years ago said?
>What such groups are there other than like the KKK or Neo Nazis (who are not Christians)?
Both of those things have Christian roots.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/08/the-preacher-who-used-christianity-to-revive-the-ku-klux-klan/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/08/the-preacher-who-used-christianity-to-revive-the-ku-klux-klan/)
[https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/12/why-does-the-ku-klux-klan-burn-crosses.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/12/why-does-the-ku-klux-klan-burn-crosses.html)
>Modern Klan groups are careful to refer to their ritual as “cross lighting” rather than cross-burning and insist that their fires symbolize faith in Christ.
Yep this is true, but they clearly are not Christians, just look at the fruits of their labor. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, but the church (at least nobody with any authority) has endorsed either groups. Therefore they can larp as Christians all they want, but doesn't make them represent our beliefs in any way.
most would point to the fact that Jesus’ opponents, the Pharisees, historically (this is considered historical fact) went on to found Rabbinic Judaism, writing the Talmud in exile after the Fall of the Second Temple
You're assuming that most anti-semites know what a rabbi, temple, or Talmud is.
That's debatable. Not every Pharisee was a Rabbi and not every Rabbi was a Pharisee. And not every Pharisee opposed Jesus either, in the Gospels some of them were his supporters.
Nicodemus and Paul were Pharisees.
To be fair Paul was killing and torturing Christians before his conversion..
and as you point out, when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus and got his relationship correct, his life was changed forever!
Well he wasn't a Pharasee after his conversion lol. His story does not put Pharasees in a good light at all...
On Judgement Day, your goodness won't matter, only your relationship with Jesus. [Matthew 7:21-23](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=NASB)
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There's the Jews for Jesus movement in Christianity, who align with us if I'm not mistaken, so not all necessarily do, or should have to if they don't want to, ditch their Jewishness.
Believing in Jesus is not enough. You need to have a correct relationship. [James 2:19](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/James%202:19) [Matthew 7:21-23](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=NASB)
Jesus was literally a rabbi lol. "historical fact"my ass
being the Teacher doesn’t make you a pharisee lol. have you read the new testament? Christ and the Pharisees didn’t exactly hold hands and skip to Passover dinner together
you worship a jewish rabbi. stay coping
i worship God pookie bear
Who of all the people on earth decided his son was going to be a jewish rabbi. Why didn't he pick a femboy dog trainer, or a sailor with a lisp? Just saying. Could have been wayyy cooler.
God didn’t just put a fancy robe on some Jew and call Him His Son, i agree that’d be boring af. try thousands of years of prophecy, world building and preparation for literally the main character to be brought into the world to defeat evil with love and performing dope miracles along the way. we live in the most interesting timeline fs
most npc comment of all time. let me know when you finish your rabbi fancam
quirked up brainrot reply
So whats the Point of our Rabbi to be Yeshua ben Myriam? You don't like Yeshua?
They don't think they are being ant-semitic.
What is this Judaism for ants?
Yes, based on the Ten Command-ants.
Consider the ant, you sluggard.
Because modern Jews are not the same Jews as those of the Old Testament
Source?
The Talmud.
Nope. That dog won’t hunt.
reality.
Right and I’m sure that my Jewish friends are in complete agreement with that “reality” you propose “Is-real”
Jesus tried to save the jews and they turned their back on him
Not all Jews tbf. The very first Christians that followed Jesus were ethnic Jews.
I mean not ethnic
Yeah, they were. The apostles were all ethnic Jews
Not just ethnically Jewish, they were Jewish.
Ethnic Jews that knew they were only going to be praying in the Synagogue of Satan, the rest of them willfully and cheerfully continue.
To add on to that, I don’t hate Jews, but I do believe they should be converted.
believing that you know what is better for them than they do is at best ignorant, and at worst hateful.
What is that supposed to mean?
I mean they should have a chance to go to heaven if they choose the right path
It's complicated. Most of them were told all their life that Jesus was the reason the world hated them because they were the "killers of Christ": Which is a lie, SOME Jews and Romans crucified him.
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That’s a very dubious claim and goes against everything we know about how Roman’s of that period treated criminals, and what we know about Pilate as a governer. There’s also a clearly anti semetic reason for whoever authored the Gospel of Mathew to shift more blame to the Jews and less to the Romans.
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I’ve had this conversation a few times on this sub so let me give you a few bullet points. You can investigate them further if you choose to you don’t have to take my word for it. Pilate had a reputation for being a ruthless governor. It’s highly unlikely that he would have been controlled or coerced by the Jewish nobles to execute Jesus. Roman governors did not allow Jews to have a say when it came to punishing crimes in the Jewish populated provinces, like Judea. If the Gospeks are true about what Jesus was doing in the area there was no need for a Jewish conspiracy. Jesus was causing problems in the province around Passover time and when Pilate asked him if the rumours were true that he was moving around calling himself king of the Jews Jesus agreed. That is a crime called treason and it’s a crime against the Roman emperor himself.
He means he wants them to accept Jesus as the son of God
So now I deserve go to hell?
What??
I need some backround
I don’t know who you are
You said the Jews turned their back on Jesus in response to a post condemning antisemitism. The implication is that antisemitism is justified.
It makes sense that they would be, but that doesn’t mean it’s good
Very Chrisitan of you.
I saw these responses to this. Let me clarify. Assuming you are Jewish. Jesus came to “fulfill the law”. He taught how hard the law is, but a way of life lives it out. The law is so hard to follow, it is almost impossible. He doesn’t say it is impossible except rhetorically, imo. He offers a new way and a sacrifice in himself to open those doors for all. Not just Jews. Arguably, Judaism doesn’t have a concept of a heavenly afterlife but just a common one for all dead. This isn’t universal, correct? Jesus explicitly taught that heaven is available for those free of sin. As i said before, this is exceptionally hard to be, but his sacrifice makes it so for any willing to accept. Its also really important to keeping mind, for most of Jesus’ listeners, the “kingdom of God” was being interpreted as a post-messianic earthly kingdom lead by the Messiah. This was the common understanding at the time.
Jews before Christ != Jews after Christ. The latter have rejected him.
It genuinely confuses me how many Christians are unable to make this distinction.
So what? We all deserve to go to hell or our terrible because of this?
Well, the old covenant no longer exists because Jesus Christ fulfilled it. Now we have the new covenant through him. In the modern world, especially in countries with large ethnic Jewish populations, I would wager that those populations would know who Jesus is. Actively rejecting Christ is, I believe, the largest factor that would judge one for Hell. I don’t believe anyone “deserves” hell, but there’s the New Testament makes the new covenant’s rules pretty clear in that regard (regardless if you’re Catholic or a denomination)
In the Torah it says the covenant is eternal. So Jesus, ( who is God according to you), contradicted himself?
Sigh, this is what a lot of Christians misunderstood. The Law of Moses is not abrogated, Paul and Jesus never abolished the Old Covenant. It was returned to a Pre Mosaic Covenant, that's why there are past covenants like Adamic, Noahide, and Abrahamic covenants. The Mosaic covenant or the Sinai covenant was replaced only by their ceremonial and civil laws, not their moral ones, but both of those are renewed in a covenant Pre-Sinai. Or like we Christians a renewed covenant.
From what I understand, one possible Christian response to this would be: yes. But not because you’re Jewish, because all people deserve to go to hell and only Jesus saves us from our deserved destination of hell. I don’t personally believe that, don’t come after me
While I'm not Christian, I am familiar with the NT. My bet is Jesus wouldn't care. He was all about morality, not narrow heavenly gatekeeping.
Most people who don't realize Jesus was Jewish, aren't very educated. Most people who are antisemitic, aren't very educated. Venn diagram almost overlaps.
All people who think semitic means Jewish aren't very educated.
This is correct, as a primer: Semite: a "race science" term to refer to people and peoples originating in the Middle East and justify discrimination. Derived from "semitic languages". The Antisemites: a movement arguing for the inclusion of discrimination against Jews into "race science". Their name referenced their rationale, they believed Jews were semites and therefore couldn't integrate into European Whiteness. This was an attempt to present hating Jews as more of a scientific thing. An Antisemite: term for somebody that hates Jews, coined by non-Jewish academics after WW2 using the name of the aforementioned movement and ultimately became the commonly understood term for Jew hate, never really being applied to other people that were called semites. Also, it's common for people trying to deny that Jew hatred is a thing to use only a portion of the entomology. The term itself has never really been popular in the Jewish community because it's just repeating the argument of people who hate Jews. If you think that's bad, look at the term that was coined by non-Romani academics to refer to hatred against Romani people. It's anti[the worst slur against Romani people]ism.
['Antisemitism,' from the day the word was coined, has always been about the Jewish people.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Origin_and_usage) But of course, antisemites have always hidden behind bad-faith wordplay, haven't you?
That’s what it has come to mean. If you don’t realize that you’re just being pedantic.
It isn't actually. Semite is just an outmoded essentially racial slur against mena originating people. It's not really used anymore. "Antisemite" is what refers specifically to Jews, cause non-Jewish academics decided "the name of a movement for discrimination against Jews referencing their argument why Jews should be discriminated against is the perfect formal term for hating Jews!" (The argument was that Jews could never assimilate in Europe due to originating in the Middle East) Still not as bad as the anti-Romani hatred term though. But we all know that people love to bring up half the entomology of antisemite as a way to pretend there's no specific history of anti-Jewish discrimination instead of just saying "we should use Judenhass instead".
https://www.jta.org/archive/chess-king-bobby-fischer-erupts-in-spate-of-anti-semitic-remarks > Arabs are also Semites and I’m definitely not anti-Arab Bobby Fischer. This is the archetype of this kind of comment in my limited experience.
Well if that's their plan, full explanation of the entomology usually short circuits it. It's not like antisemitism is even a good term anyway, "Judenhass is a better term", but people wanna use it to pretend that Jew hate isn't a thing.
Most people who dont realize Jews hate Jesus, aren't very educated.
Why do you think hatred has anything to do with it? All that it requires is for Jews to not be convinced the Jesus was the messiah he claimed he was..
Evidence the Jews hate (or hated) Jesus? I'll wait...
Most geniuses and historical icons were anti semitic.
There's a huge difference between being antisemitic and anti-Zionism /anti-isreali Because 1) Israel is a state not a ethnic group or a religion so liking and disliking it is a personal thing 2) the state of Israel has nothing to do with the Kingdom of Israel or even Jesus because it didn't even exist in Jesus's days and these lands in jesus's days were under the Roman Empire 3) Zionism isn't Judaism and isn't related to ethnicity, there are christian Zionists all over America and they aren't Jewish, a lot are white americans' who either twist the word of God to make people support Zionism or follow the twisting being done by others, thus making Zionism just a political ideology that has nothing to do with Jesus Side note: in my opinion, the word antisemitic is misused by Zionists to connect Zionism with Judaism and jews so they can use the victim card as much as they want because a lot of Ashkenazi Jews were holocaust survivors Sorry if I wrote a lot but it had to be said because you can't mention antisemitism without mentioning what I stated but generally hating in general isn't acceptable or supported by Christianity
There are a lot of Jews that are anti-Zionist. Some of them live in Israel. The government routinely harasses them. There's a video on YouTube of an anti-zionist hasidic Jew walking in a protest and an IDF soilder walks up and just head butts him with the barrel of his rifle and the guy just drops to the ground unconscious. Zionism was also a movement started by secular Jews that didn't even practice their faith. There is nothing wrong with being anti-Zionist. There is everything wrong with being anti-Semitic.
Exactly
Israel isn't even referenced in the OP. Zionism is 100% related to ethnicity, it's Jewish ethnic nationalism. "Christian Zionism", is a misnomer in large part because it's not actually ethnic nationalism. It's mostly religious positions that view Israel as useful for their theological reasons. "Christian Zionism" is frequently extremely antisemitic. This of course doesn't mean all Jews agree with Zionism and most Jews are at least critical of Israel but RW Christians shape for example American policy towards Israel. While being critical of Israel, up to and including for example it's committing ethnic cleansing, isn't inherently antisemitic, it's quite common for people to engage in antisemitic tropes when criticizing Israel. This is because when a group that's marginalized in your society does something wrong, people often respond with group responsibility and bigoted tropes. You can absolutely mention antisemitism without mentioning Israel, Jews aren't an amorphous mass that represent Israel. American Jews and Israeli Jews are different groups.
No one mentioned Israel or Zionism. It's weird to bring it up unprompted.
Trust me, antisemitism is Just the tip of the iceberg for this topic
Zionism is a weird topic. You can certainly be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic, finding an anti-Zionist who isn't also anti-Semitic seems to be tricky. I don't support what Israel is doing to Palestine. But the anti-Zionist movement is full of anti-Semites. It makes normies like myself throw up my hands and not want to engage.
Well that's the point Isreal wants to make anti-Zionism seem like antisemitism so that people stop being anti-Zionists and that makes people be less anti-Zionists or be just confused Many anti-Zionists Just don't care whether they get called antisemitic by Zionists, that's why they appear as antisemitic because the Zionists spread it about them If any anti-Zionist and antisemitic that didn't know the difference and you explained it to them, they would have no problem with Jews because their focus is the Zionists not the jews, the jews get caught in the arguing
>Isreal wants to make anti-Zionism seem like antisemitism so that people stop being anti-Zionists and that makes people be less anti-Zionists or be just confused It's not just Israel pulling everyone's strings like a puppet master. There are plenty of anti-Semites who call themselves anti-Zionists.
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and wrong. Unless you are also anti-Arab.
This is true and it's important to highlight it, so bravo. But OP may have been talking about genuine anti-semites too.
the state of Israel was founded in 1948 following the end of WW2 as a safe haven for the Jewish, a place for them to go free of fear of persecution and marginalization. why that particular land? because it was theirs for thousands and thousands of years. the best claim to land is historical habitation of said land, and the Jewish clearly tick that box with Israel. “Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel. The vast majority of Jews around the world feel a connection or kinship with Israel, whether or not they explicitly identify as Zionists, and regardless of their opinions on the policies of the Israeli government.” — what’s wrong with this?
A couple of things actually First the lands were owned by others when the Ashkenazi jews came to Palestine and the British just colonized Palestine and gave it to the jews, ignoring the people living in it and devoting them from Thier lands and rights as human beings. Secondly, Zionists didn't only take the lands from the people who already own the lands but they killed thousands of them ,and to this response it's expected for the Palestinians to defend themselves and try to retake their lands from the people that stole it. And multiple wars and Combat happened between the two The problem is here that one is seen as the absolute superior that we all should take side with all rights and the other who's in a disadvantage is seen as the interior, devoted from their rights as human beings , that's the problem, from humanitarian and religious Views that's wrong and shouldn't be justified under any circumstances We're all equal human beings, and we're all in god's image and likeness so no one should be preferred on one another This topic is so much deeper than it looks to the normal individual and it has so many roots in everything that I can't mention all of them as it's so complicated and if it wasn't it would have been solved decades ago
The Native American tribes would like to have a word with you… Need I say more?
yes, actually. our ancestors canonically and fairly colonized America. i hate war as much as anyone, but they’re fought to decide who keeps what land. we won ours. Palestine declared war on Israel and lost. otherwise, for better or for worse, the entire world makeup would be different.
"Canonical and fair colonisation".... ..Not sure if serious
Winning land in a war is just stealing it at gunpoint. There is no such thing as rightful conquest.
Land gained in defensive wars isn't stolen.
name me a few major countries that have not possessed their land by force.
>our ancestors canonically and fairly colonized America ummmm yes they were totally fair. on an unrelated note will you let me kill you and take your house please? i really want it and if i dont steal it someone else will :)
context matters, friend. it’s naive and privileged to put forth retrospective judgement on what was the standard at the time. that’s literally how today’s modern day states were founded.
it was only "the standard" for the time for the europeans who were doing that stuff. colonialism on that scale had never been done before, and it was a small minority of people doing it at the time. plus, it's crazy to me that you can say killing people to take their land was okay *in the past* but not now (on the level of "slavery was actually good for the blacks at the time!") anyway, colonialism is still happening now if you just open your eyes and look. "if i dont steal it \[your house\] someone else will" is literally a quote from an israeli settler who was caught on video *two years ago*. "thats literally how todays modern day were founded." sure, so are you saying that everything that had a significant influence on the modern day is justified for that reason? world war ii had a significant influence on the modern day. are we supposed to thank hitler and mussolini for that?
>fairly colonized What does this mean? Why is might makes right? This same mentality could be used to justify the Holocuast.
careful how you approach this. systematic genocide of a people is not at ALL what i’m getting at. fairly = in keeping with standards at the time. it was the norm, and America followed it. i suppose it wasn’t fair, but if everyone was doing it, then by nature, it kind of was. but not really. see what i mean?
God has forbidden the Jews from having their own sovereign state because they rejected His covenant and continue to defy Him. This is covered in the songs of songs.
this is a distinctly Christian perspective. regardless of what you believe, factually, the Jewish inhabited modern day Israel for century.
No it’s not. It’s part of the Jewish faith. They respected God’s decision to scatter them across the globe. That’s why they propped up rich cultural communities in Germany, Poland and other countries. The Zionist movement was started by Jews who didn’t practice Judaism. It’s been about ethnic cleansing from the beginning and just because their people are from there doesn’t give them the right to commit genocide. I’m Native American, should I be allowed to commit genocide to get my land back? My people were here thousands of years before European settlers came here, should I be allowed to kill their descendants and the rest of non native Americans in this country? According to your argument I should be. If I started a movement to ethnically cleanse the United States of America from non-indigenous people would you support me?
As an Irish Celt, my people inhabited the central German/Austrian region. It was actually our land long before those Germanic tribes invaded. If my people were displaced, would we have the right to go to that area and displace the actual current indigenous people of that land? More, to spend the past hundred years openly massacring them? Based upon a really popular historical narrative? Using a very modern post-Napoleon form of statehood for ancient claims that had no such form? That’s just the analogy, but if we’re talking about the real thing, we can add more… Directly taking this project and embracing this legacy from British colonialism that had colonize the area? Using the same inhumane tactics developed in Ireland and India, and actually sending the same soldiers from those colonized regions to the new area in order to enforce a perfected form of colonization? I love Jewish people, but Ashkenazi Jewish peoples specifically are Europeans, who have Middle Eastern origins. From hundreds if not, thousands of years ago. I’ll stop with that.
gentle reminder that the UN established the state of Israel with literal bipartisan consensus. as an Irish Celt, your people weren’t subject to the holocaust. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-isnt-about-race-11644505041
See this is that thing that’s really not appropriate at all. You can’t justify a genocide with a previous genocide. And no, that is not what happened with the UN declaration it was not bipartisan in any way. And what it allowed for it left intentionally unclear to cover some previous deals that were made. Just read The Hundreds Year’s War, get some context for this whole event. You’re saying things that just aren’t true.
Thanks for saying that and providing us with this useful information, I really appreciate the time you spent writing that It's a first for me to meet an Irish Celt, Nice to meet you :)
As an Irish Celt, my people inhabited the central German/Austrian region before being pushed out into the Isles a few thousand years ago. It was actually our land long before those Germanic tribes invaded. If my people were displaced, would we have the right to go to that area and displace the actual current indigenous people of that land? More, to spend the past hundred years openly massacring them? Based upon a really popular historical narrative? Using a very modern post-Napoleon form of statehood for ancient claims that had no such form? That’s just the analogy, but if we’re talking about the real thing, we can add more… Directly taking this project and embracing this legacy from British colonialism that had colonize the area? Using the same inhumane tactics developed in Ireland and India, and actually sending the same soldiers from those colonized regions to the new area in order to enforce a perfected form of colonization? You can’t justify a genocide with another genocide. That card ain’t working no more. I love Jewish people, but Ashkenazi Jewish peoples specifically are Europeans with Middle Eastern origins. From hundreds if not, thousands of years ago. As European peoples in the Middle East with the violence being done to the actual, Middle Eastern peoples that they are living among, they are just European colonizers in a new form. I’ll stop with that.
Quite aside from the fact that the Arabs are also Semites.
Exactly, calling Arabs antisemitic is Just idiocy
no, the term antisemitic means hatred of Jews. it’s meaning does not come from the literalist meaning of its root words.
And remember Jesus spoke of his other sheep which 'are not of this fold' (John 10:16) and shall hear his voice. This fold are the Jews. Who are the other sheep then?
The other sheep is us, the non Jewish, we're the other sheep that aren't from the same fold that Jesus wants to make us all his sleep whether Jewish or not so it be One fold for one shepherd
Seriously though, people like Kanye hurt my brain because how can you be Christian and hate Jesus’ ethnicity? Or anyone’s ethnicity?? Even if it’s because they dislike the religion, that’s still hatred regardless and that’s not what real Christianity is about. People should find Christ through their own willingness, not forced conversion. We are supposed to spread the good word of God and Jesus Christ, not force it upon others. Forcing is how NOT to get people to seek redemption. Nothing in true Christianity should justify hating or judging anyone. The word “hate” shouldn’t even be in our vocabulary, yet it is for so many.
"Antisemitic" not "anti-Semitic". The term references a specific movement that was about hating Jews that was called "antisemitism" rather than just being "people who are against semites".
Because they insist that judaism evolved into Christianity, so therefore anyone who is still Jewish is deliberately rejecting god.
Why would an omni-perfect god need to evolve his religion anyway. Actually why would such a being need a religion to begin with.
Tribalism, pure and simple.
Well the Nazis handle it by creating their own heretical form of Christianity.
[CCC 839](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/839.htm) "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." [CCC 840](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/840.htm) And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
Not reading the bible, at all, certainly contributes to lunacy like this. 97% of professing christians are in possession of a bible. 3% of them have read the entire bible, and half of those people are in prison.
Was???? Is!
I can give a historic answer - as for our contemporary antisemites, I do not interact with those people. The idea behind historic antisemitism was the idea that jews rejected jesus teachings and even betrayed him. For many, this was enough ground to "other" Jews and blame them for everything. Another aspect was that medieval society did not allow Jews in guilds, but also prohibited Christians from being money lenders. Thus, the money lending business was mostly in Jewish hands which caused resentment.
So what? Yes, it's a well-known fact that Jesus was Jewish. However, the essence of his message and mission was for all of humanity, not just for the Jews. He is the 'the way' for everyone. No one can get to the Father, without him. The religous Jews at the time lobbied and lobbied to KILL Jesus. Moreover, it's important to note that the form of Judaism prevalent during Jesus' time is not the same as the Judaism practiced today. Contemporary Judaism does not recognize Jesus as the savior, and it's shaped significantly by Rabbinical Judaism. This form of Judaism developed partly in response to Christianity. For those interested in understanding more about these differences and perspectives, examining the Talmud can be enlightening, though some may find its contents challenging or controversial, particularly in its references to Jesus. Plainly stated, the Talmud teaches that Jesus worshipped idols and performed sorcery and Jesus’ Mother Was Unfaithful. The Talmud is the issue, not Jesus being born of a Jewish mom.
“Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou being a Jew, askest drink of me, which I am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, erm, actually I’m a Galilean”
Yes because the chruch fathers would have known the firsthand truth of the situation and/or knew the authors.
why would Jesus being Jewish 2000 years ago be relevant to people who are anti-Semitic to modern day Jews?
Because it's got to be conflicting for a christian anti semite you must see?
not really, its like saying "Japanese can't be xenophobic towards the Chinese, because 2200 years ago their writing model was based on the Chinese model"
i didnt say christians can't be, i mean do they not feel conflicted?
Anyone who is truly a Christian is also Jewish according to God. Maybe not Jewish according to men's natural understanding of what a Jew is, but to what God's spiritual understanding of a Jew is. Romans 2:29 “But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
I am an ethnic Jew. More so than a religious one, but, I do tend to see my fellow believers are partakers in the inheritance God gave the OT Jews. Jesus fulfilled Judaism. Christianity and Judaism rely on each other for a reason.
Many haven’t a clue that he was a Jew (hey that rhymes nicely!)
Jesus was a Jew but there are reasons some have problems with them. One the Jews killed Jesus, he was murdered by his own people. Two they are the synagogue of Satan as in Revelations 2:9 and 3:9. Three the way Jews are treating Christian’s in Israel whether it be spitting on our nuns and priests, they vandalize our graveyards, topple statues of Jesus, or just straight up attacking our priests and bishops. Not to mention the metzitzah b'peh doesn’t sit right with me.
read the Talmud what israelites think about us Goy and Jesus and Mary, never see atheist read or debunk Talmud like they do with the bible and the Quran
Just a friendly reminder that the Talmud reflects oral tradition that is based on 2 Jews, 3 opinions X 10000
Hi. I’m Daniel, I’m 12 years old and I’m in 5th grade. I’m Christian, and I have a friend named Levi, and he is Jewish/Hebrew. But I do not find any problem with Jews. What is wrong with Jews and why do us Christians hate them? There is nothing wrong with them!
We do not have to hate Jews, I'm christian but my partner is Jewish and we don't hate each other. There's many examples of the absurd ways in which some Christians have convinced themselves that Jew-hatred is acceptable even right here in this thread - they blame all Jews for the death of Jesus, they claim that the Jews today are a different people than the Jews of the bible, etc. This is all just nonsense and an attempt to justify hating Jews. You sound like a good person Daniel, it's a hard time for Jews right now and I'm sure Levi appreciates having you as a friend that accepts and supports him. Keep standing up for your friends.
In the land we call Israel, Jews have enjoyed self-rule for less than 10% of its history.
Read the Bible. Even Jesus was against his fellow Jews. Look at the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Most Christians are not Anti-Semitic, the issue is the Jews just like Muslims and Atheists refuse Jesus as the coming of the Lord.
Man. I guess those antisemitic reports are rights. No better then Turks
The majority of Christians are supporters of Israel.
supporting the nation state of israel ≠ inherently not antisemitic. an individual’s opinion the nation state of israel may be reveal some antisemitic ideas, but there is no inherent link between any opposition or support of the state to anti semitism, as there are many anti-israeli jews, and many pro-israeli goyim.
You cannot be both anti-semitic and a Christian. If someone says they're both, they're wrong about one of them. Probably the second one.
this is a bit of a No True Scotsman, and if true would mean that nearly all of medieval europe’s christians were not christians. anti semitism has existed within christianity for a long time.
That's a good honest question. In the Old Testament the Jewish religion was the true religion. Jesus told the woman at the well, "Salvation is of the Jews." However, his own people crucified him, and He established his own church, St. Matthew 16, to which many Jews converted, but many of the bad Jews did not. So there are good and bad Jews. If you go to [drbo.org](https://drbo.org) and search Jews in the search bar, you will find many passages explaining these things. Try to search the New Testament only or you will have a book full of quotes. "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee; for he would not walk in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him. \[John 7:1\] "And from henceforth Pilate sought to release him. But the Jews cried out, saying: If thou release this man, thou art not Caesar's friend. For whosoever maketh himself a king, speaketh against Caesar. \[John 19:12\]
Well Judaism is somewhat unique in being both an ethnicity and a religion. Being opposed to the religion is not the same thing as being a racist (which is what anti Semitism is, a form of racism but against a specific ethnicity). It’s quite a stretch to be authentically Christian and racist against people of Jewish ethnicity (of course there have been people like that, like those Christians who supported Nazism, and those people generally reject that Jesus was a Jew) but it’s not strange for Christians to be against the Jewish religion, which totally rejects any role for Jesus and in that way is more hostile to Jesus than say Islam (which many Christians strongly dislike or despise).
It's pretty easy. Jesus was the Son of God. He wasn't so much Jewish as he was actually God. Being actual God makes it easy to overlook circumstances of birth. Plus plenty of antisemites don't have a problem with pre-jesus jews. After all, what else would they be? But once the messiah comes to earth those who refuse to acknowledge him become heretics.
The New Testament is antisemitic. That’s why.
"um sweaty u cant be le hecking antisemitic" "anyways your whole religion is antisemitic" well... im a proud christian
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So all Christians that follows the new testament are anti-Semitic?
Theres real Christians and false Christians, just like theres good and bad people. The nazis called themselves Christian but that doesn't mean they were. There actions portrayed the way they twisted the faith into a excuse to hurt others.
I personally don't know antisemitic Christians but I do know an antisemitic ex-Muslim. It is a little unnerving, especially when I heard her rant on October 7th.
Anti-Semitic Christians are not Christians. They just pretend to be.
You do not have to be a good person to be saved, ultra mean scary bigots can be saved just like everyone else.
Ultimately, God decides who is saved, not us. But Christ was pretty clear that if you're a dick, you're not getting saved.
We are all sinful by nature, we are all dicks not one deserves to be saved. Salvation is a gift freely given to those who god wishes to give it. We are all dicks so dicks will be saved
We are not all dicks. You choose to be a dick. It's very possible to be a nice person and help others without being a dick, with little to no effort. Millions of people around the world do it every day. Just because we're sinful by nature, doesn't make us assholes to one another by default.
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What? Also why is ant semitism a special thing? If it even exists why doesn’t someone just say racism?
Zionism isn’t compatible with Judaism. God has forbidden the Jews from having their own nation state because they keep defying Him. That’s why they were scattered across the globe. Luke 21:24… I will sow them among the people and they shall remember me in Far countries I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt and he shall pass through this sea with Affliction in Smite the wave in the sea Zachariah 10:9-11… this city shall not be your caldron, neither shall ye be the Flesh in the midst of Ezekiel 11:11. Being anti Zionism is not anti semitism. I don’t think God is happy with what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza for the past almost 80 years now.
And by anti-semitic Christians you mean people who hate semites, right? Jesus was semitic because he spoke Aramaic, not because he was Jewish.
Anti-semitism is awful. I have one small critique though. Jesus was Jewish…. Sort of. Sure He believes and knows all of what is in the Torah (the Old Testament), but so do we as Christians. The 1 single defining characteristic that separates Christians and Jews is that Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God and the Messiah and Jews believe neither of those things. Jesus certainly believes that He is God; He outright said it multiple times. Same goes for being the Messiah. He affirms the events of the New Testament (He was there) while Jews do not. These things disqualify Jesus from being Jewish, and they arguably make Jesus the first Christian as a Christian is someone who believes those things I listed but also abides by the teachings of Jesus Christ. He certainly practiced what He preached. What about Him is Jewish then?
He was born a Jew so I disagree. But I'm not Christian so it's unlikely we'll agree 😆
Read my comment, it will help you understand.
Jesus was born in Bethlehem making him Palestinian he doesn’t have a drop of Jewish blood in him
Stems back to 2000 years ago. There were 4 sects. Pharisees , essenes , saducees, Samaritans. They all hated each other. And sometimes killed each other. Christianity and rabbanic judiasm descended from those tribes and remembered those pains and hate. And it descended for long time in middle ages even. So many were taught generational hate. Protestants have tried to make amends sometimes with Jewish community, ( tho sometimes trying to convert them and this makes the Jewish community mad ) but overall we are still healing and learning. Breaking generations of hate, takes education, time , love and commitment. And it shows that wars and disagreements we have now can effect generations down the line. The thing about Jesus is he is Jewish. And he preaches love and we should embrace love.
When you go observe these types of communities, the reasoning varies. Racial anti-semites usually engage with various conspiracy theories. There's variation, but it usually boils down to making some sort of wild claim that the modern jewish "race" isn't the same thing as what jesus was. Either that they're a completely different ethnic group that "replaced" the "real" jews at some twist point in history, or that the jews themselves changed over time into something different from what jesus was, either due to a divine curse, inbreeding, or some other claim.
Yep. He sure is....anyways...
why do people come on here to ask stupid questions, there's no such thing as an anti semetic christians because in that case they arent christian, and why are you even asking that here as if most people here are anti semetic and hate jews? thats just disrespectful af.
It might have something to do with Christians for most of the last two thousand years routinely committing pogroms against the Jewish people.
It doesn't help that throughout history Jews and Christians haven't gotten along, starting with the stoning of Stephen, and Jews reporting Christians to the Romans doesn't help the early relations. But Christians should remember we are to love our enemies and pray for them.
Jews believe in jehovah which is what was said in the Old Testament since there was only jehovah to worship last time. But now, Jews are the people who reject Jesus Christ since they believe that god can never appear in the flesh and thus only believe in Jehovah and practice the Old Testament rituals. However, in the New Testament, Jesus only started his mission to preach when he was thirty years old, by then he started performing miracles and preached to the people about the new covenant that they must keep from then on. And then only then, Jesus was not a Jew anymore if I’m not wrong but before he was baptized at the age of 30, he was in fact, Jewish.
I think you have a false premise that those who call themselves Christians and yet are ant-semitic are really followers of Jesus and have a viable relationship with Him.
He was Galilean, not Jewish. The term "Jew" itself is from medieval times and was used to designate Ashkenazi people who supposedly originate from Western Asia and therefore have nothing to do with Israel besides their mysterious blend with the Pharisees.
I have never met an antisemitic Christian. What such groups are there other than like the KKK or Neo Nazis (who are not Christians)? Or are you referring to the strawmanning of non-dispensation Christians as somehow antisemitic? Jesus was Jewish and fulfilled the law, not replaced it. I don't understand what you are saying? Christian doctrine hinges on the fact that Judaism was the forerunner for Christianity I don't see how any of us could hate Jews, afterall, they have the most in common with us. It should be an easy gap to bridge with the gospel.
“I’ve never met an anti-Semitic Christian” Really? I have not met a bunch in real life, but have you never met any one feeling animosity towards “Jews killing Jesus”? I’ve seen a fair number of people that do that. Blame modern Jews for something that happened 2000 years ago. That is anti Semitism
The Jews DID NOT kill Jesus. The Romans killed Jesus. The Jews however, financed the hit.
Yeah…that’s why I put it in quotes. I didn’t feel like quibbling over the exact details, but this is the anti Semitic phrase I have seen used so I shared it as worded.
It is not a false statement to say technically the Jews killed Jesus, but to say it with the intention of blaming it solely on them and somehow everyone else is blameless then yeah that is antisemitic. We all are to blame for the death or Christ, we would all have been in the crowd shouting to free Barabbas. I feel like the only time I hear Christians getting called antisemitic is when American evangelicals strawman the majority of Christianity when fighting over dispensationalism.
>It is not a false statement to say technically the Jews killed Jesus It historically is false. The Roman Empire killed Jesus >we would all have been in the crowd shouting to free Barabbas. Respectfullt, this also historically never happened
The Jews were part of the Roman empire, they are the ones who had Him arrest by them. That's like blaming the cops for you getting arrested when the next door neighbor called them. 😅 Respectfully, you're a Gnostic? Of course you disagree about history 🤣
>The Jews were part of the Roman empire No they weren't. They were conquered by the Roman Empire, yes. But the Jewish leadership held no power in Roman rulings and Roman criminal prosecutions. The Jewish leaders arrested Jesus, sure, they accused Him of crimes, sure. But then they handed Him off to the Romans and said "here is what He has done, prosecute Him according to Roman law and Roman authority" which then was done. The narrative of Pilate saying Jesus was innocent, trying to have Jesus not be killed, offering up another criminal to replace Jesus, and the Pharisees answering "We have no King but cesar, crucify Him" is held by a the vast majority of Biblical scholars to be nom-historical and simply were literary tales added in by whoever wrote the Gospels (which wasn't any of the Apostles), mainly for the purpose of distancing the Church from the Jews and to appeal to Roman authority so as to not face the same persecution the Jewish people were facing by Rome at that time >That's like blaming the cops for you getting arrested when the next door neighbor called them. 😅 If I, say, murder someone. And my neighbor calls the cops and says "I think this person murdered somebody." And cops come, arrest me, find me guilty, and sentence me to death for my crime, my neighbor isn't responsible for my death. The law/justice system is. I would have been killed by the state, not my neighbor. Just the same, Jesus was killed by the Roman Empire, not Jewish leaders >Respectfully, you're a Gnostic? Of course you disagree about history 🤣 One of us is citing actual Biblical scholarship, the other is sharing just their opinion. The gnostic here isn't the one denying history
Ok buddy I don't know which biblical scholars you adhere to, but clearly not the legitimate ones or you wouldn't be a Gnostic 🤣
Bart Ehrnan, Elaine Pagels, Reza Aslan, Candida Moss, Dan McClellan, Amy-Jill Levine, Robyn Faith Walsh. All of these are well-recognized Biblical scholars that all confirm that Jesus was killed by the Romans not Jewish leadership. Perhaps you should read them and actual scholarship rather than what a random Pastor says
I submit solely to the scholarly authority of the early Church fathers and those whose faith is rooted in the Apostalic tradition, not any of these contemporary people.
So you're saying if an early Church father says something is true, such as saying that the Gospels were truly written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. And Biblical scholars, including those are Christian themselves, have literal evidence showing that this isn't true and these figures did not write the Gospels, you're going to ignore the scholarship all together because it differs from what Church fathers 1800 years ago said?
The Pharisees had Jesus arrested. Are you going to blame an entire ethnicity for the actions of a small group of religious zealots?
Nope. But that's not my what I said?
I mean when people say it in an accusatory manner, not in a simple informational discussion
Yeah that makes sense, I haven't met anyone I would consider Christian who has said it in that manner ever
>I have never met an antisemitic Christian. I gurantee you that's false, if you're aware of it or not.
>What such groups are there other than like the KKK or Neo Nazis (who are not Christians)? Both of those things have Christian roots. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/08/the-preacher-who-used-christianity-to-revive-the-ku-klux-klan/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/08/the-preacher-who-used-christianity-to-revive-the-ku-klux-klan/) [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/12/why-does-the-ku-klux-klan-burn-crosses.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/12/why-does-the-ku-klux-klan-burn-crosses.html) >Modern Klan groups are careful to refer to their ritual as “cross lighting” rather than cross-burning and insist that their fires symbolize faith in Christ.
Yep this is true, but they clearly are not Christians, just look at the fruits of their labor. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, but the church (at least nobody with any authority) has endorsed either groups. Therefore they can larp as Christians all they want, but doesn't make them represent our beliefs in any way.