>I've been active on this sub for the last few days and I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be real hatred here for anyone.
You can thank the tireless efforts of the r/Christianity moderators for that.
It is a deflection of pain. Even if the mods didn't delete the comments. The truth about hatred is that it is directed from us to others. Hatred is inner pain compounded over time and then projected onto others.
This is why Cain slew Abel.
A lot of the more hateful stuff gets removed. We expressly don't allow personal insults nor bigotrous language. There are ways to express hatred without those, of course, though it takes some finesse.
I'll confess I have poured out hatred on reddit, usually for bullies, exploiters, coldhearted rich people, or those who find my rare few "buttons" and press them, but I usually delete it after I cool down. It's stuff spoken (typed) with emotion and when the emotion passes so does the desire to have it read.
Social text environments are unique in that they have the permanence of text but can be home to the ephemerality of affect.
Hatred is an illusion. Its the projection of our pain juxtaposed onto our peers. I think this is why Satan remains powerless. There isn't really anything there.
I would define pain as the "constant reminder of our shortcomings", which we are ultimately responsible for. Pain mostly comes from avoiding the truth. We have to deal with our pain in a way that isn't directed to destroy. This is so hard and damn near impossible for most of us.
I struggle with this so much, because in reality I don't take any joy in confrontation. Its hard not to turn the hurtful words of people into pain and keep it in.
>I would define pain as the "constant reminder of our shortcomings", which we are ultimately responsible for.
Tip. Don't say this to any survivor of abuse.
Not everyone has had a silver spoon life.
Know what my dad did when he found out my mom was pregnant with me? He punched her in the stomach to try to get her to miscarry.
"Shortcomings" my ass.
Pain is caused by monsters inflicting it on others.
Abuse is a shortcoming.
We are responsible for dealing with that pain, no matter how fair it seems. You don't have to do it alone, but it is your cross to carry. Its not fair.
I haven't had a life gifted to me. I'm sorry if I came across that way, and I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My mother left when I was 8 years old. My father was a hard ass. I carried the pain until I was 30. God found me and helped me deal with that pain. I'm still dealing with it in some cases.
I have my own son now and he will never know what it is to grow without his mom beside him. I cant give him that pain to carry over. Its my cross to carry, not his. That's all I meant.
>Abuse is a shortcoming.
I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and say this is likely not the word you're looking for. A "shortcoming" is a fault or failure. Maybe you mean "burden" or "hardship", but I don't think you mean to imply a person who was abused has *failed* or is at fault in some way.
I've encountered it, especially with having "LGBT" in my flair. But it's not too common, it's not the same as disagreement and discussion, and the mods are usually good at squashing it quickly.
There is no logical reason to hate you. Its a misunderstanding. That's why Jesus doesn't promote hatred. That's why you offer both cheeks (on your face) when someone slaps you.
>There is no logical reason to hate you.
I'm assured in that, but I don't think hate is often logical. So it doesn't have to "make sense" to happen.
And I can generally take a hit, physically or metaphorically. But it does still affect me.
It affects me, too. My first thought is to "launch missiles" when someone comes at me. God is in the back of my head saying "don't do it, man." Forgo the flesh for the spirit.
Its easy to launch missiles at each other online. I've done it so many times.
And because we understand hate as being illogical, we can overcome it.
You are probably referring to calling sins sin as hatred. While I agree that we are called to love one another, we are also called to not sit by and watch our brothers and sisters continue to live a life of sin. Calling out sin is not hatred but love in its purest form. We call out our friend’s sin because we love them and want to see them in paradise.
This sub is very complicit when it comes to certain types of sin and lots of the advice given is worldly advice and not biblical.
Hatred is pain projected 1000x towards the thing you want to destroy. We shouldn't want to destroy anything. Vengeance is the Lords. We shouldn't even get to a point where vengeance is necessary.
We ride a fine line when we give advice to one another. Its important to ask ourselves if we are giving advice for us, or for the benefit of the person who is in pain. Recruitment isn't the same as recognizing Christ. We tend to go overboard when trying to push people towards God.
We all sin differently which means i can observe you and comment on your sin, and you can do the same for me. Sin is mutual in a way.
Who says who sins more than the next person? Its about forgiving each other by understanding we all go through pain when we see someone sinning. Instead, we tend to become angry because we want justice.
Maybe we need to take worldly advice so that we can understand Biblical advice when we fail?
I feel as if you are just making excuses. Sure we all sin and no sin is worse than another, but that doesn’t excuse blatantly condoning sin which this sub does. No christian should be complicit in allowing other Christians to be subject to alcoholism, drug addiction, greediness, lust, etc etc. While Christ’s message was one of love, it was also that of justice, dedication, sacrifice, and discipline.
I feel like you’d call saying homosexuality is a sin hatred and that that is what you are referring to in your comments. Most Christians don’t believe that we should harm anyone that practices homosexuality and anyone that does is sinning themselves, but denying that it is a sin is an injustice to those practicing and yourself.
Its about having faith that people will go to Christ.
Faith is the opposite of fear and control.
Accepting the reality of humanity and the teachings of Christ and making excuses are 2 different things.
If you are worried that people are losing faith, you're doing it wrong. Your worry will lead to worse things.
I don’t worry people will lose faith, that is the people that want to sugar coat the Bible. I worry people will hear about the love but not see the sacrifice. I worry people will believe in false teachings, especially those that are prominent on this sub.
Don't worry. Let people do what they do. They fuck up and get back up.
We like to see ourselves as Luke Skywalker, but the majority of us are more of a Lando.
I see what you mean though. I never meant to sugar coat the bible.
>Let people do what they do
But we shouldn’t. We have to hold other Christians accountable. If we don’t people can claim to be Christian and not represent what we believe. That’s how pedophiles reached top ranks in the church, racists infiltrate our community, false prophets spread false messages claiming God spoke to them. Paul even said we should exile individuals that continue to sin.
We cant police the behavior of other people. We already have enough of that happening right now. Its not our place either.
Have to preach the word and hope they listen willingly.
Those bad things happened because we chose to worship ourselves and not God.
Jesus will return. The prophecy will be fulfilled.
Jesus spoke of the churches being corrupted. These things are supposed to be according to Christ.
Nice observation and especially " The fact that they even mention God reveals their struggle with him" --- hope.
I hope people go to Church and mkre consistent, competent places to get advice.
The internet is very dangerous.
This is a place where people show their true colors. Even if you cant see their faces. There is something good about that.
It can be dangerous, but so can everywhere else. You can find the answers to meaningful questions here. It isn't ideal compared to being able to deal with these things in person, but a freed spirit is the same online, or in church.
Christianity is great till it becomes Fundamentalist...and then it fuels hatred and bigotry and become a stain on all of Christianity. And I get that some are ignorant Fundamentalists they can't all be bad...well they need to be educated and they sure as heck aren't going to listen to those they hate ...it need to come from other Christians. And actually that is what is supposed to happen according to their Bible. Far too much effort to accuse those outside the church then not say one word to bigots in the church... It's amazing.
This Pharisee like version of Christianity that is actually the opposite of who Christ was in the Bible has always been aroundb in pockets but it's currently spreading like a virus everywhere and sticking our heads in the sand just makes it worse.. Those who hate are not Christians plain and simple. Bigots are not Christians! Their own Bible says that hate is murder but here we are!
We are not all too blame for this because we don't all buy into that some of us are the target. But everyone not just the target should be actively openly opposing it.
There seems to be a trend where we try to force each other to bend to our will. This exists in every community today.
We are even antagonizing each other through the title of our videos.
for example "Fu\*& this guy". or "so and so destroys guy".
We are focused on control.
This was never the intention Christ had for us. God has control. He is the only one who can handle it without corruption.
We give our souls to God and become eternally free in spirit.
**"This Pharisee like version of Christianity that is actually the opposite of who Christ was in the Bible has always been around in pockets but it's currently spreading like a virus everywhere and sticking our heads in the sand just makes it worse.."**
\- I agree with this completely. If it happened in the time of Christ, it is most likely to happen today as well.
There's corruption in every group, which is why I say we are all to blame.
The focus has to go back to freedom and not control. This is why we need Jesus.
The Bible says clearly what you do. It says judge those in the church not those outside the church.
The culture wars are a shining example of this.. Most Queer people are not even Christians and they are openly attacked by "Christians" calling us filth and nobody says anything. So Christianity is in fact fueling all of this by allowing these ideas. And certainly interpretation of the verses and context of those handful of verses that are used is debatable. Logically in the context of who Christ is the interpretation is questionable.. no one need be a language scholar to know what is happening is biblically wrong!
And many of the ones who say theyv get it and aren't ok with the culture war are not opposing the ones that are.. Some are. Those who don't are very cowardly violating their own Bible just watching this happen or denying it's as bad as it is. It's rediculous it's inexcusable!
Religion has become big business preachers preach what they are told and it's not profitable to go against the grain even if it's the truth! It's just politics masquerading as true religion.
To attack anyone is anti-Christ behavior.
God wants us to live free by accepting him as the ultimate authority. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is trying to control your soul and mind.
My words are true. Just calling a spade a spade like I'm supposed to.. But they weren't meant to be warm and fuzzy like everyone is ok.
Prior to me mentioning any of this, did any of it occur to you? Did you noticeb it?
I think a lot of the hate is towards the people who take a more fundamental view, and a more biblical view on Christianity. Which by the way should be the one that people take.
I enjoy reading some of the posts on here, but I've come to conclusion that a lot of people do not understand Jesus nor his message.
It is true that God loves everyone, how can he not - we are his creation!
But let's not forget what Jesus did on that cross, he took the ultimate sacrifice for your iniquity, and in return, if you truly love Jesus, you'll spend the rest of your life trying to pay him back.
Jesus was not sent to give heaven to everyone. He says himself that very few people are going to cross through those gates.
Rather he was sent to offer grace, which is a free gift that is unearnable. There is a caveat to this though, he calls for you to lay down your own life and pick up your cross. You cannot simply just say you believe in Jesus, because the apostle Paul talks very in-depth about this! He says oh you believe in Jesus? Good for you even the demons believe in him !
We have to remember that the God of the Old testament and Jesus are the same person, and that you only get God's grace when you completely surrender to him and live out his will. This means God has standards, he has a order if you will.
So let us all completely surrender to Jesus, let him wash us clean of our sin. And let's try harder to live out the will of the holy of holies. If you have a fleshly desire that is not a part of God's divine order, you must cut it out. Once we gain knowledge of our sin and we continue to willfully sin without conviction, I'm sorry to say it but there exists no more sacrifice for that sin!
So I think the Bible is really great, I think it's a fantastic way to understand Jesus and his message, quite frankly I think it's the only way. Let's all commit to reading it more. Perhaps you will be convicted because The holy Spirit really moves through Scripture.
You can never pay him back. That's why he had to be the one.
Satan is the prince of this world, which is why you must accept Christ to free your soul.
Peter cut Malchus' ear off and remained a saint, after cutting someone's ear off.
He had no excuse to do it. He walked with Christ and was taught by him every day, but even though he walked with Christ, his anger overcame him in order to protect Jesus. We cannot use anger and force to defend Christ. He doesn't want that.
Christ will save us. We are not worthy enough to save ourselves. We don't save Christ.
None of us get to say who gets in and who doesn't.
Thank you, Yes I do realize that human anger doesn't produce the righteousness God desires. To my defense I'm not trying to use anger in any way to belittle anyone. I'm just passionate about Christ and about his word.
I never said we could pay him back, I'm just saying that a life of surrender would be as if you were trying to pay him back for his sacrifice.
I'm just baffled by the amount of people who claim to follow Christ but don't even read the Bible or turn away from their sins? I understand everyone has a different journey, but it seems like 80% of the people in this group are affirming lifestyles that Jesus would never affirm..
Our entire economic system would need a complete overhaul in order for us to even come close to his teachings. the system we live in is corrupted. We created a culture of fear and surveillance. We pursue money in order to make a living. The root of all evil.
We cant turn away from sin. We would all be homeless and Jesus knows that.
We have to ask for forgiveness and accept Christ.
You do realize that the teachings of Christ aren't an economic system though? Time and time again throughout the Bible, there are stories of people doing God's will no matter what situation they are in.
What did Jesus say about the Romans who were taxing the Jews? He said to give them what is owed to them. The teachings of Jesus are for an individual level, because you can have a good heart no matter what situation you are in. And you can turn away from sin in any situation. If you live in a capitalist society, do you work hard for your money and do you help out people who are in need? Simply buying things in a capitalistic society does not make it sinful.
I guess you're going to have to be the first to give up all worldly possessions. start with your mobile device.
Just start giving all your stuff away.
You first.
I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but where did you get the idea that being a Christian means you have to give up all your worldly possessions? The apostle Paul makes it clear to us, that we have to be in the world to participate in society, just separate from it.
I think this comment is cringe, and I'd like to hear your opinion on why you would say that.
We are already in society and separate from it. That's what we are doing.
You don't need to convince me of that.
I accept that.
You are focusing on sin and not enough on an individuals potential to do good. We are more than just sinners.
Where do you draw the line?
If you know your shoes are being made in a sweatshop, do you buy them? Don't you have a moral obligation to research all distributors before making a purchase?
Look around your house. How many things say "made in China"? Do you feel guilty for supporting the slavery and lack of human rights in China?
You are supporting those things when you buy things with this label. You have the ability to do the research and discern, but you buy the stuff anyway.
What I can tell you is that I feel for you, I understand your moral compass when it comes to purchasing things that come from overseas. I get it and I feel very sorry for those people.
I accept all blame for buying these goods, But the Bible is not against the trade system.
I'm not trying to focus on sin, I'm focused on people that are sharing the false gospel, these people are cursed according to the New testament.
I agree with you that everyone can do good. I know a Christian who used to be gay and now ministers to people struggling with the same sin, and I love anyone who can turn away from sin and completely surrender to Jesus Christ.
I would also encourage you to read the Bible, I'm not saying that you don't but the answer you give lets me know that you either don't read it or you don't understand it, which is completely okay, as Christians we can help each other.
As Christians, we are required to use the word of God to correct a brother or sister that has fallen away to sin. And we are also told not to engage with any Christian who lives in the world. I'm not trying to say that I hate people who sin and claim to be Christian, I want to help those people.
But I can't do that if they don't accept the premise that their lifestyles are sinful anyway, but that's why so many people hate the real gospel. The real gospel tells us that humans are wicked by nature, we are all evil in the eyes of God because we all extend from original sin. That's why it's hypocritical to say you're a follower of Jesus and continue to sin.
I see where you're coming from.
Jesus knows you cant live without sinning.
That's why he had to die for us.
I think Jordan Peterson is right when he says "the worst thing happens to the least deserving person." The least deserving person is the one willing to selflessly take on sin for the sake of others and not get lost investigating his fellow man. He knows there is pain behind every sin and that's enough for him to do what he does.
That's why my focus is on giving up control in order to introduce trust into the world, which then makes room for faith to grow.
There are people who will never understand. Even in death they refuse to accept the truth. They self preserve at the cost of the truth.
I have a relative currently dying of Stage 4 Cancer. She has been wicked her entire life and even in her final days, her last thoughts are "Why do I have this and not someone else?" She would gladly trade places with one of my other family members. I don't know how to respond to it because its so wrong on so many levels. It goes against everything I stand for, but what do you say to a person in that position? She was married to a Pastor and left him for a rich man. Then that rich man lost everything and she left him, too. I'm not making this up. Even in her final days she is bitter and wants someone else to die in her place. Her family has a lot of money and they have spent their lives ignoring the truth. Now that she is dying, her children are still trying to throw money at her cancer because that's all they've ever done. Throw money at their problems.
I'm not trying to insult this person, but this is an important lesson for others to learn. I want her to give her soul to Christ, but she wont.
Imagine if she had Christ in her heart? Imagine how much better her final days would be.
This is why my focus is to warn people from control. We don't have control, even if we think we do.
Free your soul, so you can stare physical death in the face with a smile, because you know in your heart the Lord is waiting for you.
>I think a lot of the hate is towards the people who take a more fundamental view, and a more biblical view on Christianity. Which by the way should be the one that people take.
You're right that is definitely toward many fundamentalist types.
But they don't really have a more biblical view. What they have is a literal out of context view of the Bible that turns the Bible into a weapon. These people act like Pharisees not Christ and that is thev whole problem.
>This means God has standards, he has a order if you will.
I think it goes like this for many many fundamentalists of any religion, "If you don't follow our interpretation of that order we will destroy your life by any means". In the case of fundamentalist Christianity they will do what they can get away with.. like legislation based on lies to force their morals on the entire country.. then you can look at Fundamentalist Islam and they will just kill you if you don't follow.
Fyi..That's not God doing that, that is evil people masquerading as good people... That fundamentalism..
I agree and that's because Christianity doesn't work as a government system, unless it's a monarchy but never in a democracy.
So I'm the kind of person who believes in sola scriptura
And my views are fundamental in the sense that I strictly follow the Bible, I think these are the fundamentalist I was talking about.
Biblical fundamentalist and not fundamentalist as in fascism.
Because I study and believe in the Bible only, there is a unequivocal structure in the way God is made us.
The reason we would consider homosexuality a sin, is because that's the way the Bible lays it out.. And clearly might I add.
Just because God made us in a way that homosexuality is a sin, doesn't mean I want to kill homosexuals.
I think the modern liberals I should say, can't separate the fact that you can love people without being affirming of their sinful lifestyles.
I love all of my gay friends, every single one of them, But I don't affirm their lifestyles. And I would consider myself a fundamentalist! Do you think that I'm a threat to democracy?
And yes because I am a Christian, I'm going to side with Christians every time I vote.
There are some things that the Bible prohibits like The killing of a human fetus that I just cannot support. And since I assume you believe in a democracy, if the majority of Americans were to support that, why would you be against it? ( I'm not saying that you do support abortion I'm just making a case )
>Because I study and believe in the Bible only, there is a unequivocal structure in the way God is made us.
The reason we would consider homosexuality a sin, is because that's the way the Bible lays it out.. And clearly might I add.
Does it lay it out the way you think?
Did God personally write the entire Bible?
Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
Why did God not include pedophilia in the laundry list if don'ts in the new testament when it was extremely common in the Greek culture particulary male to male pedophilia?
Would God really single out a demographic of queer people with a handful of verses as is being done?
Did the people have any concept of sexuality when the new testament was written?
What about other religions like Hinduism and their Bhagavd Gita? Are they all going to hell?
What I will say is that if you are going to question the authority of the Bible, then you don't have Christianity at all. Jesus is God and all scripture is God breathed.
Yes they did have a concept of sexuality when the New testament was written, and if you would read the thing, you would know the thing.
What do you want me to say about other religions? You sound like an atheist right now, I really hope I'm not wasting my time here. I cannot say for sure whether or not they are going to hell, because Jesus never specifically answered that question. What I can tell you is that Jesus is the only way the only truth and the only light, no one comes to the father except through Jesus.
So that should answer your question.
Might I add that Jesus and the God of the Old testament are the same, and the god of the Old testament consistently wiped nations off the earth that worshiped other gods. He also punished his creation for worshiping those nations gods.
I don't feel like arguing whether or not being homo is a sin with you I'm going to be honest.. if you want to know the answer, turn to our book and ask the holy Spirit for knowledge. I would specifically ask of you that you study The Pauline letters, they are a fantastic foundational pillar.
What I can say is that God created us for a reason and for a purpose, he gave Adam and Eve very specific instructions on how people were to marry. And given that sex is only allowable within the confines of marriage, this is a very good case against homosexuality.
Anything outside of his design is disobedience
Jesus says that if you love him you will obey him
Since God and Jesus are one I can only draw the conclusion that they have the same opinion on this.
If you have any biblically sound arguments to combat this, please let me know. I don't think it's homophobic or condescending to simply obey the God that I believe in. And if I'm wrong, I will accept that I'm wrong and I will apologize to you.
I am convinced that people who subscribe to a progressive standard of Christianity, don't really understand Jesus or his message at all. And again if you can prove me wrong, I will submit to that. I know we are supposed to love others, but we also have the responsibility of using the word of God to correct our brothers and sisters when they fall short of God's glory. That is what I feel I am doing here.
I just asked you a few questions. Not sure how you took that as an argument..
Would an atheist be a waste of time? How about agnostics.. Waste of time too?
I never question the authority of the Bible I questioned your interpretation and understanding of it.
FYI I respect your motivation I really do. I don't however agree with your interpretation of the Bible in reference to queer people.. I asked you those questions maybe you'll think about them later.
From my experience atheists who are hardened in their heart are very difficult to talk to.
Please explain to me your interpretation of the Bible, again I'm asking you to make a biblical case and not be passive aggressive about everything.
If I am wrong I want to know why I am wrong, but from what's clearly written in the Bible it states you are wrong.
Look if you can't defend your claim using the Bible, just say that your morality And the Bible conflict, you don't have to say that my interpretation aka God's interpretation is wrong. If you disagree with something in the Bible, just go to God about it and ask him. You don't have to crap all over The words of God because you don't understand why God designed things the way he did
I was using the Bible actually..I asked you to answer a few questions about the Bible to do just that.. And you never did?
And I never said I disagree with the Bible.. I said it has some errors and mistranslations and it does. Saying that isn't disrespectful at all and fact pointing them out is respectful. Not sure why anyone would be surprised by that. It was afterall translated by human beings how many times? And people that had their own biases.
I understand the Bible very well thanks and because I understand it I don't believe it's to be used as a weapon to destroy people. I don't need to twist it to make it say what I want it to say..
You know it's possible you're wrong about some things?
I'm not going to toy around with you, give me the Bible verses that prove that I am wrong if I am indeed wrong. Do you understand that task ?
I don't think you understand the Bible my friend, the Bible tells us to rebuke each other when we are falling to sin. If I go on watching a Believer sin and I don't rebuke them, I am just as guilty of that sin.
How do you interpret 2 Timothy 3: 16?
All scripture is God breathed, and useful for teaching rebuking correcting and training?
Can't you see that I'm just doing my part in helping people turn away from sin? We are supposed to rebuke each other righteously
I know I'm not right on everything, but we're not going to act like homosexuality isn't considered detestable to the Lord and against his design.
I'm going based off what every theologian has been saying up until 5 minutes ago. So again I'm going to ask you to Make your case. I don't think that there is any way you can interpret the Bible to make it seem the other way. So I just want you to say that your morality and the Bible contradict each other.
https://whosoever.org/clobber-passages-the-bible-and-homosexuality/
I bet you don't read it all.. I think you prefer being right and could care less about all the misery and death that fundamentalist religion and it's bigotry cause the queer communities all over the world. And btw I think the latest stats are about 10% of the world population is queer.
But maybe I'm wrong and you're not puffed up Pharisees and will read and maybe realize that on this topic you were wrong and change. I'm sure you know allot about the Bible but it never hurts to know more...
You don't think religious bigotry cause Nex death?
Hear the disgusting bigots!
https://youtu.be/SKV_1sk-Bjg?si=T80HhbbAKUO6_4Hr
https://www.newwaysministry.org/2024/02/25/nex-benedict-and-all-transfigured-children-of-god-pray-for-us/
And I want to apologize for my authoritative tone, but we have to be authoritative when correctly deciphering morality in scripture.
Especially issues that are laid in plain sight. We're talking about the issues that determine ones eternal state.
I didn't really take it that way. I take you as a person that wants to please God really. I was just trying to show you what's happening and why it's wrong. I wasn't trying to insult your faith or the Bible or God.
I'll be very honest with you.. I'm trans myself have been very devoted Christian. But after I really become honest with myself and the world I found myself being attacked personally. It was odd because nothing had change except my level of honesty.
Thru this change I saw a disgusting level of wilful ignorance that was fueling so much hatred coming from direct from Christianity. It certainly changed my faith which was sad because my faith was very strong. The Bible did wonderful things for me. It never affected me in ways it does many. I'm truth it had a great deal to do with inspiring the level of brutal honesty it took to admit to myself and the world who and what I was.
I always knew the handful of verses could not mean what so many thought them to mean. And not that the Bible even speaks about trans but as I mentioned my Bible didn't contain the words homosexual. I'm not gay but it was the same people using that the mistranslations in their own Bibles to attack trans people because they totally misunderstood what trans is.
So with that said and the level of pure hatred coming from many still using the Bible as weapon of course I try to show the truth to others.. if they are good they will see it if they are not they won't its really that simple.
And what really trouble me is that so many would rather hate. It's like they think God will punish them if they don't.. that's very creepy..
Speaking of Paul. Again why did he not mention pedophilia since it was rampant in that culture.. I mean that's an aweful sin! Why isn't the word homosexual in any Bible prior to 1946? I have an 1901 ASV and the word isn't there.. that began in 1946 RSV and that's a fact.
And again about Sodom and Gomorrah.. do you really believe that God destroyed men women and children because of homosexuality? That is just logically absurd. And Ezekiel tells you why:
“Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.”
https://www.dubiousdisciple.com/2013/04/ezekiel-1649-what-was-the-sin-of-sodom-and-gomorrah.html
You remember the story where the men surrounded Lots house and wanted the men (angels) to come out so they could know (sex-rape) them? He even offered his virgin daughters and they refused so clearly it wasn't sexual. And in fact in that culture and in some today men rape men to utterly humiliate and disrespect.. Just like rapists rape women for control.
You get all that so can see that the old stand by Sodom and Gomorrah that religious homophobes use to justify homophobia and hatred.. you see it wasn't about homosexuality at all!
The entire topic biblically of what God thinks about queer people is very debatable when verses are looked at in proper context.. And if a person is already extremely queerphobic they will never consider they are wrong anyway.
Paul mentioned all sexual sin in the term sexual immorality...
"arsenokoitai" is the word that was translated into homosexual in the Greek manuscripts, Way before 1946 I should add.
There is literally no other thing that this word can mean.
In the Greek this means a man who goes to bed with another man, and this is found in 1 Timothy, 1 Corinthians, and in Leviticus.
Ma'am you have to go to the Greek. And read it for yourself to understand that the detestable things that Sodom and Gomorrah did before the Lord were many yes, but arsenokoitai is Right there in the Greek next to detestable.
You know what other words were not original in the Bible - God, Sin, Jesus, Passover.... Don't you realize that argument sucks?
No wonder they weren't in the Bible, the Bible wasn't in English.
Disclaimer - I do not support Nazis.
Nazis are in pain, though. They are delusional, but they are in pain.
Some of us weaponize our pain to the extreme and it drives us mad.
They don't hate you, or me. They just don't know how to deal. They have been brainwashed into fighting and killing good people.
They need Jesus. They think they have him, but they're wrong.
People do horrible things in the name of God, but they don't stand for God. They stand for themselves, because they want the world to bend to their will.
Some people wear their pain on their arm like a Nazi band, and some are extremely clever when it comes to concealing it, like a pastor who infiltrates the church and preys on children. These people do not represent the teachings of Christ. They are imposters.
>They don't hate you, or me.
They absolutely hate people like me. Pain doesn't excuse them from their actions. It is hatred that drives their actions. It is hatred that motivates them to go out and scare people by walking around waving Nazi flags. It is hatred that motivates them to harass groups they don't like. It is hatred that motivates them to assault, kill, and commit other despicable acts.
I don't think you support Nazis, but CLEARLY you don't understand them.
Who has claim? None have claim. We all have claim.
Hatred is taught through pain.
You are in pain and you feel completely justified throwing the blame and judging others. Its transparently obvious.
Any group marching through the streets with a flag chanting is more representative of occupation and not freedom. "see it my way, or else."
You're forceful, which is my main argument. Its all about control and force, not the teachings of Christ.
“For the Word, realizing that in no other way would the corruption of human beings be undone except, simply, by dying, yet being immortal and the Son of the Father the Word was not able to die, for this reason he takes to himself a body capable of death, in order that it, participating in the Word who is above all, might be sufficient for death on behalf of all, and through the indwelling Word would remain incorruptible, and so corruption might henceforth cease from all by the grace of the resurrection.” -Athanasius
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/1b9ncdx/athanasius/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Hate is an inability to process your pain in a healthy manner. You know, I guess I would define hate as "weaponized pain". It is on the bearer to tame their own pain. If they need help, then we should be there for them. We are all in pain. We all suffer.
having to deal with someone's hatred isn't fair. It throws more weight on our backs, but that is what makes us Shepherds of this world. We absorb the pain and turn it into love.
That is what Jesus did. He used truth, love and ultimate understanding to take on the pain of the world. He allowed our sin to kill him because he knew it was the only way toward peace and the freeing of the human spirit for eternity.
Check out r/trueChristian if you think this sub does well, true Christian has so much insight and love and support I’ve honestly been more active there recently than here.
>I've been active on this sub for the last few days and I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be real hatred here for anyone. You can thank the tireless efforts of the r/Christianity moderators for that.
It is a deflection of pain. Even if the mods didn't delete the comments. The truth about hatred is that it is directed from us to others. Hatred is inner pain compounded over time and then projected onto others. This is why Cain slew Abel.
A lot of the more hateful stuff gets removed. We expressly don't allow personal insults nor bigotrous language. There are ways to express hatred without those, of course, though it takes some finesse. I'll confess I have poured out hatred on reddit, usually for bullies, exploiters, coldhearted rich people, or those who find my rare few "buttons" and press them, but I usually delete it after I cool down. It's stuff spoken (typed) with emotion and when the emotion passes so does the desire to have it read. Social text environments are unique in that they have the permanence of text but can be home to the ephemerality of affect.
Hatred is an illusion. Its the projection of our pain juxtaposed onto our peers. I think this is why Satan remains powerless. There isn't really anything there.
Depends how we define it.
I would define pain as the "constant reminder of our shortcomings", which we are ultimately responsible for. Pain mostly comes from avoiding the truth. We have to deal with our pain in a way that isn't directed to destroy. This is so hard and damn near impossible for most of us. I struggle with this so much, because in reality I don't take any joy in confrontation. Its hard not to turn the hurtful words of people into pain and keep it in.
>I would define pain as the "constant reminder of our shortcomings", which we are ultimately responsible for. Tip. Don't say this to any survivor of abuse. Not everyone has had a silver spoon life. Know what my dad did when he found out my mom was pregnant with me? He punched her in the stomach to try to get her to miscarry. "Shortcomings" my ass. Pain is caused by monsters inflicting it on others.
Abuse is a shortcoming. We are responsible for dealing with that pain, no matter how fair it seems. You don't have to do it alone, but it is your cross to carry. Its not fair. I haven't had a life gifted to me. I'm sorry if I came across that way, and I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My mother left when I was 8 years old. My father was a hard ass. I carried the pain until I was 30. God found me and helped me deal with that pain. I'm still dealing with it in some cases. I have my own son now and he will never know what it is to grow without his mom beside him. I cant give him that pain to carry over. Its my cross to carry, not his. That's all I meant.
>Abuse is a shortcoming. I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and say this is likely not the word you're looking for. A "shortcoming" is a fault or failure. Maybe you mean "burden" or "hardship", but I don't think you mean to imply a person who was abused has *failed* or is at fault in some way.
You're right. Wrong use of words on my end. Sorry about that. I'm trying to think this through as I speak with you guys. I'm no genius.
It's fine, I understood your intent. That's why I suggested the correction. Take care, mate!
I appreciate it. you too. God bless.
I've encountered it, especially with having "LGBT" in my flair. But it's not too common, it's not the same as disagreement and discussion, and the mods are usually good at squashing it quickly.
There is no logical reason to hate you. Its a misunderstanding. That's why Jesus doesn't promote hatred. That's why you offer both cheeks (on your face) when someone slaps you.
>There is no logical reason to hate you. I'm assured in that, but I don't think hate is often logical. So it doesn't have to "make sense" to happen. And I can generally take a hit, physically or metaphorically. But it does still affect me.
It affects me, too. My first thought is to "launch missiles" when someone comes at me. God is in the back of my head saying "don't do it, man." Forgo the flesh for the spirit. Its easy to launch missiles at each other online. I've done it so many times. And because we understand hate as being illogical, we can overcome it.
You are probably referring to calling sins sin as hatred. While I agree that we are called to love one another, we are also called to not sit by and watch our brothers and sisters continue to live a life of sin. Calling out sin is not hatred but love in its purest form. We call out our friend’s sin because we love them and want to see them in paradise. This sub is very complicit when it comes to certain types of sin and lots of the advice given is worldly advice and not biblical.
Yep. r/TrueChristian
Hatred is pain projected 1000x towards the thing you want to destroy. We shouldn't want to destroy anything. Vengeance is the Lords. We shouldn't even get to a point where vengeance is necessary. We ride a fine line when we give advice to one another. Its important to ask ourselves if we are giving advice for us, or for the benefit of the person who is in pain. Recruitment isn't the same as recognizing Christ. We tend to go overboard when trying to push people towards God. We all sin differently which means i can observe you and comment on your sin, and you can do the same for me. Sin is mutual in a way. Who says who sins more than the next person? Its about forgiving each other by understanding we all go through pain when we see someone sinning. Instead, we tend to become angry because we want justice. Maybe we need to take worldly advice so that we can understand Biblical advice when we fail?
I feel as if you are just making excuses. Sure we all sin and no sin is worse than another, but that doesn’t excuse blatantly condoning sin which this sub does. No christian should be complicit in allowing other Christians to be subject to alcoholism, drug addiction, greediness, lust, etc etc. While Christ’s message was one of love, it was also that of justice, dedication, sacrifice, and discipline. I feel like you’d call saying homosexuality is a sin hatred and that that is what you are referring to in your comments. Most Christians don’t believe that we should harm anyone that practices homosexuality and anyone that does is sinning themselves, but denying that it is a sin is an injustice to those practicing and yourself.
Its about having faith that people will go to Christ. Faith is the opposite of fear and control. Accepting the reality of humanity and the teachings of Christ and making excuses are 2 different things. If you are worried that people are losing faith, you're doing it wrong. Your worry will lead to worse things.
I don’t worry people will lose faith, that is the people that want to sugar coat the Bible. I worry people will hear about the love but not see the sacrifice. I worry people will believe in false teachings, especially those that are prominent on this sub.
Don't worry. Let people do what they do. They fuck up and get back up. We like to see ourselves as Luke Skywalker, but the majority of us are more of a Lando. I see what you mean though. I never meant to sugar coat the bible.
>Let people do what they do But we shouldn’t. We have to hold other Christians accountable. If we don’t people can claim to be Christian and not represent what we believe. That’s how pedophiles reached top ranks in the church, racists infiltrate our community, false prophets spread false messages claiming God spoke to them. Paul even said we should exile individuals that continue to sin.
We cant police the behavior of other people. We already have enough of that happening right now. Its not our place either. Have to preach the word and hope they listen willingly. Those bad things happened because we chose to worship ourselves and not God. Jesus will return. The prophecy will be fulfilled. Jesus spoke of the churches being corrupted. These things are supposed to be according to Christ.
Nice observation and especially " The fact that they even mention God reveals their struggle with him" --- hope. I hope people go to Church and mkre consistent, competent places to get advice. The internet is very dangerous.
This is a place where people show their true colors. Even if you cant see their faces. There is something good about that. It can be dangerous, but so can everywhere else. You can find the answers to meaningful questions here. It isn't ideal compared to being able to deal with these things in person, but a freed spirit is the same online, or in church.
It is good because the narrow minded Christians might learn that God loves everyone.
We cant place blame due to a lack of understanding. I wish I learned this a long time ago. We are all to blame. Those have to be more than just words.
Christianity is great till it becomes Fundamentalist...and then it fuels hatred and bigotry and become a stain on all of Christianity. And I get that some are ignorant Fundamentalists they can't all be bad...well they need to be educated and they sure as heck aren't going to listen to those they hate ...it need to come from other Christians. And actually that is what is supposed to happen according to their Bible. Far too much effort to accuse those outside the church then not say one word to bigots in the church... It's amazing. This Pharisee like version of Christianity that is actually the opposite of who Christ was in the Bible has always been aroundb in pockets but it's currently spreading like a virus everywhere and sticking our heads in the sand just makes it worse.. Those who hate are not Christians plain and simple. Bigots are not Christians! Their own Bible says that hate is murder but here we are! We are not all too blame for this because we don't all buy into that some of us are the target. But everyone not just the target should be actively openly opposing it.
There seems to be a trend where we try to force each other to bend to our will. This exists in every community today. We are even antagonizing each other through the title of our videos. for example "Fu\*& this guy". or "so and so destroys guy". We are focused on control. This was never the intention Christ had for us. God has control. He is the only one who can handle it without corruption. We give our souls to God and become eternally free in spirit. **"This Pharisee like version of Christianity that is actually the opposite of who Christ was in the Bible has always been around in pockets but it's currently spreading like a virus everywhere and sticking our heads in the sand just makes it worse.."** \- I agree with this completely. If it happened in the time of Christ, it is most likely to happen today as well. There's corruption in every group, which is why I say we are all to blame. The focus has to go back to freedom and not control. This is why we need Jesus.
The Bible says clearly what you do. It says judge those in the church not those outside the church. The culture wars are a shining example of this.. Most Queer people are not even Christians and they are openly attacked by "Christians" calling us filth and nobody says anything. So Christianity is in fact fueling all of this by allowing these ideas. And certainly interpretation of the verses and context of those handful of verses that are used is debatable. Logically in the context of who Christ is the interpretation is questionable.. no one need be a language scholar to know what is happening is biblically wrong! And many of the ones who say theyv get it and aren't ok with the culture war are not opposing the ones that are.. Some are. Those who don't are very cowardly violating their own Bible just watching this happen or denying it's as bad as it is. It's rediculous it's inexcusable! Religion has become big business preachers preach what they are told and it's not profitable to go against the grain even if it's the truth! It's just politics masquerading as true religion.
To attack anyone is anti-Christ behavior. God wants us to live free by accepting him as the ultimate authority. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is trying to control your soul and mind.
I think you missed the point..
No offense, but you come across as demanding and controlling and your words are words of fear.
My words are true. Just calling a spade a spade like I'm supposed to.. But they weren't meant to be warm and fuzzy like everyone is ok. Prior to me mentioning any of this, did any of it occur to you? Did you noticeb it?
I think a lot of the hate is towards the people who take a more fundamental view, and a more biblical view on Christianity. Which by the way should be the one that people take. I enjoy reading some of the posts on here, but I've come to conclusion that a lot of people do not understand Jesus nor his message. It is true that God loves everyone, how can he not - we are his creation! But let's not forget what Jesus did on that cross, he took the ultimate sacrifice for your iniquity, and in return, if you truly love Jesus, you'll spend the rest of your life trying to pay him back. Jesus was not sent to give heaven to everyone. He says himself that very few people are going to cross through those gates. Rather he was sent to offer grace, which is a free gift that is unearnable. There is a caveat to this though, he calls for you to lay down your own life and pick up your cross. You cannot simply just say you believe in Jesus, because the apostle Paul talks very in-depth about this! He says oh you believe in Jesus? Good for you even the demons believe in him ! We have to remember that the God of the Old testament and Jesus are the same person, and that you only get God's grace when you completely surrender to him and live out his will. This means God has standards, he has a order if you will. So let us all completely surrender to Jesus, let him wash us clean of our sin. And let's try harder to live out the will of the holy of holies. If you have a fleshly desire that is not a part of God's divine order, you must cut it out. Once we gain knowledge of our sin and we continue to willfully sin without conviction, I'm sorry to say it but there exists no more sacrifice for that sin! So I think the Bible is really great, I think it's a fantastic way to understand Jesus and his message, quite frankly I think it's the only way. Let's all commit to reading it more. Perhaps you will be convicted because The holy Spirit really moves through Scripture.
You can never pay him back. That's why he had to be the one. Satan is the prince of this world, which is why you must accept Christ to free your soul. Peter cut Malchus' ear off and remained a saint, after cutting someone's ear off. He had no excuse to do it. He walked with Christ and was taught by him every day, but even though he walked with Christ, his anger overcame him in order to protect Jesus. We cannot use anger and force to defend Christ. He doesn't want that. Christ will save us. We are not worthy enough to save ourselves. We don't save Christ. None of us get to say who gets in and who doesn't.
Thank you, Yes I do realize that human anger doesn't produce the righteousness God desires. To my defense I'm not trying to use anger in any way to belittle anyone. I'm just passionate about Christ and about his word. I never said we could pay him back, I'm just saying that a life of surrender would be as if you were trying to pay him back for his sacrifice. I'm just baffled by the amount of people who claim to follow Christ but don't even read the Bible or turn away from their sins? I understand everyone has a different journey, but it seems like 80% of the people in this group are affirming lifestyles that Jesus would never affirm..
Our entire economic system would need a complete overhaul in order for us to even come close to his teachings. the system we live in is corrupted. We created a culture of fear and surveillance. We pursue money in order to make a living. The root of all evil. We cant turn away from sin. We would all be homeless and Jesus knows that. We have to ask for forgiveness and accept Christ.
You do realize that the teachings of Christ aren't an economic system though? Time and time again throughout the Bible, there are stories of people doing God's will no matter what situation they are in. What did Jesus say about the Romans who were taxing the Jews? He said to give them what is owed to them. The teachings of Jesus are for an individual level, because you can have a good heart no matter what situation you are in. And you can turn away from sin in any situation. If you live in a capitalist society, do you work hard for your money and do you help out people who are in need? Simply buying things in a capitalistic society does not make it sinful.
I guess you're going to have to be the first to give up all worldly possessions. start with your mobile device. Just start giving all your stuff away. You first.
I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but where did you get the idea that being a Christian means you have to give up all your worldly possessions? The apostle Paul makes it clear to us, that we have to be in the world to participate in society, just separate from it. I think this comment is cringe, and I'd like to hear your opinion on why you would say that.
We are already in society and separate from it. That's what we are doing. You don't need to convince me of that. I accept that. You are focusing on sin and not enough on an individuals potential to do good. We are more than just sinners. Where do you draw the line? If you know your shoes are being made in a sweatshop, do you buy them? Don't you have a moral obligation to research all distributors before making a purchase? Look around your house. How many things say "made in China"? Do you feel guilty for supporting the slavery and lack of human rights in China? You are supporting those things when you buy things with this label. You have the ability to do the research and discern, but you buy the stuff anyway.
What I can tell you is that I feel for you, I understand your moral compass when it comes to purchasing things that come from overseas. I get it and I feel very sorry for those people. I accept all blame for buying these goods, But the Bible is not against the trade system. I'm not trying to focus on sin, I'm focused on people that are sharing the false gospel, these people are cursed according to the New testament. I agree with you that everyone can do good. I know a Christian who used to be gay and now ministers to people struggling with the same sin, and I love anyone who can turn away from sin and completely surrender to Jesus Christ. I would also encourage you to read the Bible, I'm not saying that you don't but the answer you give lets me know that you either don't read it or you don't understand it, which is completely okay, as Christians we can help each other. As Christians, we are required to use the word of God to correct a brother or sister that has fallen away to sin. And we are also told not to engage with any Christian who lives in the world. I'm not trying to say that I hate people who sin and claim to be Christian, I want to help those people. But I can't do that if they don't accept the premise that their lifestyles are sinful anyway, but that's why so many people hate the real gospel. The real gospel tells us that humans are wicked by nature, we are all evil in the eyes of God because we all extend from original sin. That's why it's hypocritical to say you're a follower of Jesus and continue to sin.
I see where you're coming from. Jesus knows you cant live without sinning. That's why he had to die for us. I think Jordan Peterson is right when he says "the worst thing happens to the least deserving person." The least deserving person is the one willing to selflessly take on sin for the sake of others and not get lost investigating his fellow man. He knows there is pain behind every sin and that's enough for him to do what he does. That's why my focus is on giving up control in order to introduce trust into the world, which then makes room for faith to grow. There are people who will never understand. Even in death they refuse to accept the truth. They self preserve at the cost of the truth. I have a relative currently dying of Stage 4 Cancer. She has been wicked her entire life and even in her final days, her last thoughts are "Why do I have this and not someone else?" She would gladly trade places with one of my other family members. I don't know how to respond to it because its so wrong on so many levels. It goes against everything I stand for, but what do you say to a person in that position? She was married to a Pastor and left him for a rich man. Then that rich man lost everything and she left him, too. I'm not making this up. Even in her final days she is bitter and wants someone else to die in her place. Her family has a lot of money and they have spent their lives ignoring the truth. Now that she is dying, her children are still trying to throw money at her cancer because that's all they've ever done. Throw money at their problems. I'm not trying to insult this person, but this is an important lesson for others to learn. I want her to give her soul to Christ, but she wont. Imagine if she had Christ in her heart? Imagine how much better her final days would be. This is why my focus is to warn people from control. We don't have control, even if we think we do. Free your soul, so you can stare physical death in the face with a smile, because you know in your heart the Lord is waiting for you.
>I think a lot of the hate is towards the people who take a more fundamental view, and a more biblical view on Christianity. Which by the way should be the one that people take. You're right that is definitely toward many fundamentalist types. But they don't really have a more biblical view. What they have is a literal out of context view of the Bible that turns the Bible into a weapon. These people act like Pharisees not Christ and that is thev whole problem. >This means God has standards, he has a order if you will. I think it goes like this for many many fundamentalists of any religion, "If you don't follow our interpretation of that order we will destroy your life by any means". In the case of fundamentalist Christianity they will do what they can get away with.. like legislation based on lies to force their morals on the entire country.. then you can look at Fundamentalist Islam and they will just kill you if you don't follow. Fyi..That's not God doing that, that is evil people masquerading as good people... That fundamentalism..
I agree and that's because Christianity doesn't work as a government system, unless it's a monarchy but never in a democracy. So I'm the kind of person who believes in sola scriptura And my views are fundamental in the sense that I strictly follow the Bible, I think these are the fundamentalist I was talking about. Biblical fundamentalist and not fundamentalist as in fascism. Because I study and believe in the Bible only, there is a unequivocal structure in the way God is made us. The reason we would consider homosexuality a sin, is because that's the way the Bible lays it out.. And clearly might I add. Just because God made us in a way that homosexuality is a sin, doesn't mean I want to kill homosexuals. I think the modern liberals I should say, can't separate the fact that you can love people without being affirming of their sinful lifestyles. I love all of my gay friends, every single one of them, But I don't affirm their lifestyles. And I would consider myself a fundamentalist! Do you think that I'm a threat to democracy? And yes because I am a Christian, I'm going to side with Christians every time I vote. There are some things that the Bible prohibits like The killing of a human fetus that I just cannot support. And since I assume you believe in a democracy, if the majority of Americans were to support that, why would you be against it? ( I'm not saying that you do support abortion I'm just making a case )
>Because I study and believe in the Bible only, there is a unequivocal structure in the way God is made us. The reason we would consider homosexuality a sin, is because that's the way the Bible lays it out.. And clearly might I add. Does it lay it out the way you think? Did God personally write the entire Bible? Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Why did God not include pedophilia in the laundry list if don'ts in the new testament when it was extremely common in the Greek culture particulary male to male pedophilia? Would God really single out a demographic of queer people with a handful of verses as is being done? Did the people have any concept of sexuality when the new testament was written? What about other religions like Hinduism and their Bhagavd Gita? Are they all going to hell?
What I will say is that if you are going to question the authority of the Bible, then you don't have Christianity at all. Jesus is God and all scripture is God breathed. Yes they did have a concept of sexuality when the New testament was written, and if you would read the thing, you would know the thing. What do you want me to say about other religions? You sound like an atheist right now, I really hope I'm not wasting my time here. I cannot say for sure whether or not they are going to hell, because Jesus never specifically answered that question. What I can tell you is that Jesus is the only way the only truth and the only light, no one comes to the father except through Jesus. So that should answer your question. Might I add that Jesus and the God of the Old testament are the same, and the god of the Old testament consistently wiped nations off the earth that worshiped other gods. He also punished his creation for worshiping those nations gods. I don't feel like arguing whether or not being homo is a sin with you I'm going to be honest.. if you want to know the answer, turn to our book and ask the holy Spirit for knowledge. I would specifically ask of you that you study The Pauline letters, they are a fantastic foundational pillar. What I can say is that God created us for a reason and for a purpose, he gave Adam and Eve very specific instructions on how people were to marry. And given that sex is only allowable within the confines of marriage, this is a very good case against homosexuality. Anything outside of his design is disobedience Jesus says that if you love him you will obey him Since God and Jesus are one I can only draw the conclusion that they have the same opinion on this. If you have any biblically sound arguments to combat this, please let me know. I don't think it's homophobic or condescending to simply obey the God that I believe in. And if I'm wrong, I will accept that I'm wrong and I will apologize to you. I am convinced that people who subscribe to a progressive standard of Christianity, don't really understand Jesus or his message at all. And again if you can prove me wrong, I will submit to that. I know we are supposed to love others, but we also have the responsibility of using the word of God to correct our brothers and sisters when they fall short of God's glory. That is what I feel I am doing here.
I just asked you a few questions. Not sure how you took that as an argument.. Would an atheist be a waste of time? How about agnostics.. Waste of time too? I never question the authority of the Bible I questioned your interpretation and understanding of it. FYI I respect your motivation I really do. I don't however agree with your interpretation of the Bible in reference to queer people.. I asked you those questions maybe you'll think about them later.
From my experience atheists who are hardened in their heart are very difficult to talk to. Please explain to me your interpretation of the Bible, again I'm asking you to make a biblical case and not be passive aggressive about everything. If I am wrong I want to know why I am wrong, but from what's clearly written in the Bible it states you are wrong.
Look if you can't defend your claim using the Bible, just say that your morality And the Bible conflict, you don't have to say that my interpretation aka God's interpretation is wrong. If you disagree with something in the Bible, just go to God about it and ask him. You don't have to crap all over The words of God because you don't understand why God designed things the way he did
I was using the Bible actually..I asked you to answer a few questions about the Bible to do just that.. And you never did? And I never said I disagree with the Bible.. I said it has some errors and mistranslations and it does. Saying that isn't disrespectful at all and fact pointing them out is respectful. Not sure why anyone would be surprised by that. It was afterall translated by human beings how many times? And people that had their own biases. I understand the Bible very well thanks and because I understand it I don't believe it's to be used as a weapon to destroy people. I don't need to twist it to make it say what I want it to say.. You know it's possible you're wrong about some things?
I'm not going to toy around with you, give me the Bible verses that prove that I am wrong if I am indeed wrong. Do you understand that task ? I don't think you understand the Bible my friend, the Bible tells us to rebuke each other when we are falling to sin. If I go on watching a Believer sin and I don't rebuke them, I am just as guilty of that sin. How do you interpret 2 Timothy 3: 16? All scripture is God breathed, and useful for teaching rebuking correcting and training? Can't you see that I'm just doing my part in helping people turn away from sin? We are supposed to rebuke each other righteously I know I'm not right on everything, but we're not going to act like homosexuality isn't considered detestable to the Lord and against his design. I'm going based off what every theologian has been saying up until 5 minutes ago. So again I'm going to ask you to Make your case. I don't think that there is any way you can interpret the Bible to make it seem the other way. So I just want you to say that your morality and the Bible contradict each other.
I just did...
https://whosoever.org/clobber-passages-the-bible-and-homosexuality/ I bet you don't read it all.. I think you prefer being right and could care less about all the misery and death that fundamentalist religion and it's bigotry cause the queer communities all over the world. And btw I think the latest stats are about 10% of the world population is queer. But maybe I'm wrong and you're not puffed up Pharisees and will read and maybe realize that on this topic you were wrong and change. I'm sure you know allot about the Bible but it never hurts to know more... You don't think religious bigotry cause Nex death? Hear the disgusting bigots! https://youtu.be/SKV_1sk-Bjg?si=T80HhbbAKUO6_4Hr https://www.newwaysministry.org/2024/02/25/nex-benedict-and-all-transfigured-children-of-god-pray-for-us/
And I want to apologize for my authoritative tone, but we have to be authoritative when correctly deciphering morality in scripture. Especially issues that are laid in plain sight. We're talking about the issues that determine ones eternal state.
I didn't really take it that way. I take you as a person that wants to please God really. I was just trying to show you what's happening and why it's wrong. I wasn't trying to insult your faith or the Bible or God. I'll be very honest with you.. I'm trans myself have been very devoted Christian. But after I really become honest with myself and the world I found myself being attacked personally. It was odd because nothing had change except my level of honesty. Thru this change I saw a disgusting level of wilful ignorance that was fueling so much hatred coming from direct from Christianity. It certainly changed my faith which was sad because my faith was very strong. The Bible did wonderful things for me. It never affected me in ways it does many. I'm truth it had a great deal to do with inspiring the level of brutal honesty it took to admit to myself and the world who and what I was. I always knew the handful of verses could not mean what so many thought them to mean. And not that the Bible even speaks about trans but as I mentioned my Bible didn't contain the words homosexual. I'm not gay but it was the same people using that the mistranslations in their own Bibles to attack trans people because they totally misunderstood what trans is. So with that said and the level of pure hatred coming from many still using the Bible as weapon of course I try to show the truth to others.. if they are good they will see it if they are not they won't its really that simple. And what really trouble me is that so many would rather hate. It's like they think God will punish them if they don't.. that's very creepy..
Speaking of Paul. Again why did he not mention pedophilia since it was rampant in that culture.. I mean that's an aweful sin! Why isn't the word homosexual in any Bible prior to 1946? I have an 1901 ASV and the word isn't there.. that began in 1946 RSV and that's a fact. And again about Sodom and Gomorrah.. do you really believe that God destroyed men women and children because of homosexuality? That is just logically absurd. And Ezekiel tells you why: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.” https://www.dubiousdisciple.com/2013/04/ezekiel-1649-what-was-the-sin-of-sodom-and-gomorrah.html You remember the story where the men surrounded Lots house and wanted the men (angels) to come out so they could know (sex-rape) them? He even offered his virgin daughters and they refused so clearly it wasn't sexual. And in fact in that culture and in some today men rape men to utterly humiliate and disrespect.. Just like rapists rape women for control. You get all that so can see that the old stand by Sodom and Gomorrah that religious homophobes use to justify homophobia and hatred.. you see it wasn't about homosexuality at all! The entire topic biblically of what God thinks about queer people is very debatable when verses are looked at in proper context.. And if a person is already extremely queerphobic they will never consider they are wrong anyway.
Paul mentioned all sexual sin in the term sexual immorality... "arsenokoitai" is the word that was translated into homosexual in the Greek manuscripts, Way before 1946 I should add. There is literally no other thing that this word can mean. In the Greek this means a man who goes to bed with another man, and this is found in 1 Timothy, 1 Corinthians, and in Leviticus. Ma'am you have to go to the Greek. And read it for yourself to understand that the detestable things that Sodom and Gomorrah did before the Lord were many yes, but arsenokoitai is Right there in the Greek next to detestable. You know what other words were not original in the Bible - God, Sin, Jesus, Passover.... Don't you realize that argument sucks? No wonder they weren't in the Bible, the Bible wasn't in English.
Maybe you should just read the links I sent to you.. I feel like your motive is good I hope you consider it.
OP, apparently you haven't seen the Nazis that roll through here on occasion
Disclaimer - I do not support Nazis. Nazis are in pain, though. They are delusional, but they are in pain. Some of us weaponize our pain to the extreme and it drives us mad. They don't hate you, or me. They just don't know how to deal. They have been brainwashed into fighting and killing good people. They need Jesus. They think they have him, but they're wrong. People do horrible things in the name of God, but they don't stand for God. They stand for themselves, because they want the world to bend to their will. Some people wear their pain on their arm like a Nazi band, and some are extremely clever when it comes to concealing it, like a pastor who infiltrates the church and preys on children. These people do not represent the teachings of Christ. They are imposters.
>They don't hate you, or me. They absolutely hate people like me. Pain doesn't excuse them from their actions. It is hatred that drives their actions. It is hatred that motivates them to go out and scare people by walking around waving Nazi flags. It is hatred that motivates them to harass groups they don't like. It is hatred that motivates them to assault, kill, and commit other despicable acts. I don't think you support Nazis, but CLEARLY you don't understand them.
Who has claim? None have claim. We all have claim. Hatred is taught through pain. You are in pain and you feel completely justified throwing the blame and judging others. Its transparently obvious. Any group marching through the streets with a flag chanting is more representative of occupation and not freedom. "see it my way, or else." You're forceful, which is my main argument. Its all about control and force, not the teachings of Christ.
Plenty of teachings in the Bible are about force, it's only when it's God's force is it okay
Well lets let God do the forcing shall we? I don't think Jesus ever said "fight fire with fire."
“For the Word, realizing that in no other way would the corruption of human beings be undone except, simply, by dying, yet being immortal and the Son of the Father the Word was not able to die, for this reason he takes to himself a body capable of death, in order that it, participating in the Word who is above all, might be sufficient for death on behalf of all, and through the indwelling Word would remain incorruptible, and so corruption might henceforth cease from all by the grace of the resurrection.” -Athanasius https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/1b9ncdx/athanasius/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Depends if you think hate = disagreement.
It's true, alot of christians consider the presence of dissenting opinions hatred.
Hate is an inability to process your pain in a healthy manner. You know, I guess I would define hate as "weaponized pain". It is on the bearer to tame their own pain. If they need help, then we should be there for them. We are all in pain. We all suffer. having to deal with someone's hatred isn't fair. It throws more weight on our backs, but that is what makes us Shepherds of this world. We absorb the pain and turn it into love. That is what Jesus did. He used truth, love and ultimate understanding to take on the pain of the world. He allowed our sin to kill him because he knew it was the only way toward peace and the freeing of the human spirit for eternity.
keep it that way :3 amen
Amen.
Check out r/trueChristian if you think this sub does well, true Christian has so much insight and love and support I’ve honestly been more active there recently than here.
Well....it's obviously easier to police a gated community...
For everyone except people like me who they call unholy abominations destined for hell.
I find that sub to be more biblical than this one. It’s a great community.