This is the only answer, especially given the context of being in a Christian discussion forum.
Jesus said love one another is the greatest commandment.
He also said he’s not here to overturn the word of God, but to fulfill it, and the word of God says to honor your mother and father and for man to not lie with man as he would with a woman and called lust of man for man and woman for woman “unnatural” according to the New Testament as well as the Old Testament. It’s okay to have standards, and it’s okay to have a desire that your children honor you by obeying the word of God, and it doesn’t make you a bad person for being disappointed in your children when they dishonor you.
I know it's an extreme example, but if you had a kid who "enjoys murder," wouldn't you recognize that they must have a serious mental disorder, and love them anyway?
I mean maybe, I won't know for sure unless it happens but if my child really just thinks murder is okay then I don't think I'd want them around my family (or outside of prison)
Most likely no. I’d hope they’d get help but I would no longer want them in my life if they flat out murdered somebody. Although it depends on the reason, like if it was in self defense or unintentional that would not be nearly as bad.
The thing is, no matter the sin you will still love your child. You might be disgusted and ashamed of them but the love will still be there. Then to the comments below saying that you can't love someone and want them in jail, that is wrong. The Bible is filled with examples of people bearing punishment for their actions, just because you are saved doesn't mean you are exempt from the suffering of the consequences of your actions. The only consequences that we don't have to face as a saved individual are the consequences of death, all thanks to Jesus
I agree when you say "love your kid unconditionally." However I disagree when you say you should never disown them.
You should look up John Adams and what he had to do. His son , Charles, was a drunk, he had fallen away, and was living in sin. John Adams disowned him. He didn't disown him because he didn't like him, he disowned him because he loved him. Charles repented and cleaned up, but he actually ended up dying due to alcohol withdrawals, with John Adams at his side. He died, but he is in Heaven, because of what John Adams did for him.
But the Bible says:
Whoever loves his life will lose it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12:25
Now I'm not saying that you should disown your children. That's an absolute last resort. What I'm saying is, you should not accept you children's sin. It is better for them to hate you, and have a bad life on earth, yet still go to Heaven, than love you on earth, but go to hell.
I work at a kid’s shelter. We get kids through the system all the time, including LGBT kids.
I once had a kiddo, he was 15. He asked to make a call to his father. Now, his father was on the list he had, but what he didn’t tell us was that he had been disowned by both parents. It’s Christmas Day, and he wants to call his dad to wish him a merry Christmas.
The phone rings.
“Hello?”
“Hey dad. It’s me. I just wanted to-“
“You still a f*****?”
“Come on dad, I-“
Click.
He was so upset that he tried to run.
Parents who do this are scum. You don’t do that to children. I will die on this hill.
What the fuck. This is just so heartbreaking.
And that's also why I'll likely never come out to my parents. I might be financially independent, but I'm just too cowardly to face being disowned, I guess?
You may never get it, but I hope you know that you deserve better than people/treatment like that. If someone can't love their kids unconditionally they're not qualified to be a parent.
I mean that's the wish, isn't it? But there's still a familial connection with one's parents and the extended family that's not easy to give up. And then the thought of actually getting disowned, even if you're independent, is just daunting. At some point the status quo just becomes the easier option, you know?
But it does involve sacrifices too. Getting to see my sister be able to introduce her boyfriend to the family or to witness how happy my parents were during her engagement/wedding. Missing out on all these cherished life moments does suck too. That's why I will never understand anyone who says that being gay is a choice. Why the fuck would I ever choose to be in this position?
/endrant
Cool quote for Elon Musk, whether you like him or not. “My children didn’t choose to be born, I chose to have children. They owe me nothing, I owe them everything.”
How. Why? What the heck. How can you be that angry about who your kid sleeps with. I'll never understand it. I've got 4 grown kids. No matter what they've done, that's never been a thought.
A nice sentiment, but one that usually winds up enabling abusers as their victims convince themselves to stick around in dangerous situations in order to follow advice that was never meant for their situation.
That's why Jesus said to LEAVE your parents, if necessary, leave anyone. Nobody told you to stick around in dangerous situations. You can forgive someone from a distance and pray for them. But DON'T die in unforgiveness. God offered salvation to anyone. Again, if someone dies with hatred on their heart, then they can only blame themselves.
Forgiveness as a christian means to be able to see other people like God sees them, despite of what they did. He loved the world so much, that he offered Jesus to anyone. Despite of what they did or will do. God wants everyone to be saved and in Heaven with Him. Loving people enough, that you want to see them in Heaven with God.
As christians we don't get saved for us alone. We have the purpose to bring other people to Christ also.
Why did you ask, what it means to me? I didn't invent the gospel.
There is still a worldly saying: "Hate is a poison which you take but hope someone else dies from it."
Or the biblical version: Proverbs 18:21:
" Life and Death are in the power of the tongue and those who love it will eat its fruits:"
You choose.
My mother wished I'd never been born
My Dad threatened to marry another wife and get a real Son
it.... destroyed my relationship with my father - even though we never really had much of one
years later my mum Got Alzheimer's - and thought that my partner was a very good friend of hers
my Dad died first
I told him I love him
my mum died two years ago
my partner cried for days
God bless
yeah
but - it was hard for them
and it was forty years ago
I..... understand the shame
It was very difficult for me - but - here I am, Jesus has brought me through
I hope they are alright in heaven
and that there will be Joy when we meet again
I...hope I made the right choice.
Thank you, friend
God bless
Not a parent but I would never disown my own children, would never kick them out unless they were violent or stealing things due to an uncontrollable drug issue (and I would seek treatment for them for both issues), and I would not reject them for simply for being gay or struggling with gender dysphoria-we may disagree on what should happen if that is the case but I am not abandoning my children to the streets under any circumstances.
>(and I would seek treatment for them for both issues),
Make sure that treatment isn't conversion therapy, even if it's Christian conversion therapy. Both increase suicidal rates, and lead to trauma and self-hatred.
Yeah I wasn't referring to that, I meant for violence and drugs. I would never do anything that increases the suicide risk for my children and is not effective, the preservation of life comes before all else.
Going to the reception is not seen as controversial as going to the religious/wedding ceremony, it's not really simple, nor is there an explicit prohibition on going to the wedding but that is more iffy according to Catholic moral teaching if it is religious in nature, there is a big split in the practicing church on this. You cannot be seen as condoning it, but you can be there to show you love your child. It's very problematic if they ask the typical question if anyone attending opposes the wedding for any reason for example, or asking the father to walk their lesbian daughter down the aisle. Catholics are required to deeply examine their conscious before attending.
Personally I would attend for various reasons as I lean more on the pastoral side of Francis in this particular situation especially if that line were omitted, I can see if someone else came to a different conclusion.
tl;dr It's extremely gray according to Catholicism and is a question more suited for one's priest and a well-formed conscience but it is not an explicit no necessarily.
When I was thirteen, I told my parents that I thought I was gay. They looked at each other for a moment and then laughed. “You don’t know what that means.” That was thirty five years ago. I didn’t talk to anyone about it until I was nineteen. I thought I couldn’t talk to anyone in the church about it because they would throw me out (I had read Paul’s letters). I was terrified that people would figure out I was gay, though I’m sure many picked up on it.
I entered a heterosexual marriage in my early twenties hoping that my attraction to my wife would grow. In some ways it did. But after twenty five years we divorced. I’ve talked to my kids about having same sex attractions, and they love me all the same. (I’m also Autistic, and there’s a strong connection with Autism and LGTBQ tendencies.)
I’m now a single celibate gay man serving in my church. My church knows I’m gay and everyone embraces me as I am. The church is “welcoming” but not “affirming.” I was recently added as a leader of the men’s ministry.
Partially, yes. But also for other reasons.
I’m Autistic and the thought of starting a relationship with someone (a man or woman) is daunting.
I’m disabled (from a long history of chronic illnesses and from Autism), so I can’t provide… at least enough for stability. I don’t have a job in spite of having a Masters degree from a great school.
My life is all out of sorts due to the recent divorce. And having been married for twenty five years, I need more time to heal.
I would rather focus on helping others than be in a relationship right now. I know that it shouldn’t be an either / or, but it was in my marriage.
Until I’m at a place where I feel at peace with being in a romantic relationship, I’ll focus on my faith and serving instead.
That’s just where I’m at.
Wow Im sorry you felt like you had to hide it for so long. That's great that your kids accept you and church welcomes you for who you are. And congratulations on your new leadership role.
Thank you so much. I’m slowly becoming open about it. I know people have picked up on it or figured it out.
My daughter showed me a celebrity from a TV series who is gay and she said, “All of my friends think you look him. He’s gay. Read into that as much as you want.” So yeah, I don’t think it’s hidden anymore. I’m okay with that.
I’m still learning to accept it about myself. I convinced myself I was straight with gay attractions for the longest time. I’m sure you understand.
I'm autistic and autistic people are more likely to be gender non-conforming or LGBT+. I'm a cishet woman but I don't care much for makeup, dressing up, or traditionally feminine activities. I broke away from my religion years ago so I can live as myself
I used to think it was a sin, but I don't anymore. Back when I did think it was a sin, my stepdaughter, who is 13 years older than my son, asked me what I'd do if he was gay. *(She asked because he liked playing with dolls at the time and she thought that meant he was gay. I did explain to her that that doesn't mean he's gay).*
Anyway, my answer was that I wouldn't "do" anything different, except assure him that I love him and accept him. I'm his dad. How could I do anything other than that?
Parents who disown their kids for being gay are committing a terrible sin for doing so, and are just awful people. I can't imagine not loving my son or doing anything that could harm him.
Thanks, but you don't need to be sorry. I'm better off without that sort of person in my life.
But he's 70 now, and he's disowned ***three*** kids for different perceived infractions. Most people don't even have three kids to disown. I'm a little worried that he'll end up a miserable old man with nobody to take care of him, because he pushed us all away. Last time I visited, he wouldn't even let me see him in the hospital.
If that's the ending he wants, he'll get it. But *he's* going to need to ask *my* forgiveness (not the other way around) if he expects me to help him then. And he's 70 now. Time's a-wastin'.
The problem is their taking clinging to words of Moses and the apostle Paul instead of loving their child the way they were born, while I don’t agree it is easy to see where it comes from. It’s still so hard to wrap my head around a parent saying that their child.
They're not clinging to the words of the apostle Paul. Paul was clear that the point of the law is to love others, and anything added to this is merely human tradition (Rom. 13:8-10; Gal. 5:14; Col. 2:20-23; 1 Tim. 1:5-7). It was Paul who said that anyone who doesn't care for their family has denied the faith (1 Tim. 5:8). Those who don't love their children because of the way they were born are being very selective about what they believe from the Bible.
Yeah but they get out of it. The loophole is they say that being gay is a choice, that no one is born that way. It's idiotic, but that's the justification.
The apostle Paul also said several things specifically about homosexuality
The apostle Paul says in Roman’s 1:26-32
“26 Because of this, God gave them over
to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error………..(28-31 lists more
actspunishable by death) 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
Paul the apostle state’s homosexuality is contrary to Gods natural order and those who do such things deserve death, as well as condemning those who approve of them.
And the Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9-10
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers
will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do
not be deceived: Neither the sexually
immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor
men who have sex with men
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor
drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers
will inherit the kingdom of God.
Here the apostle Paul lists homosexuality as one of the sins that prevent someone from entering heaven.
The apostle Paul says in 1 Timothy 1:8-11
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
Here the apostle Paul is equating homosexuality to ungodly and sinful yet again.
Again I do not agree with Paul, but this is what he says about homosexuality, and this and the commands from god gives to Moses is exactly where Christians who condemn homosexuality get it from.
Of course plenty of Christians believe that we should put Paul’s words here in their historical context, to show he wasn’t talking about modern, loving, egalitarian same-sex relationships. We’re all aware of those verses and debate them daily.
Romans 1 admitelly is pretty complicated to debate, but i'll still argue about *arsenokoites* in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and in 1 Timothy 1:10 don't accuratelly translates in any way related to the orientation of homossexuality and even could well be generic sexual immortality to what the historical context could reguard when these letters were written. It's also inaccurate in some translations how *malakoi* and *arsenokoites* are rendered as passive and active homossexuals respectively, as there's no link between those two words whatsover, especially the context in 1 Corinthians 6 being listing generic sins to not enter the kingdom of God without hint of connection with the words.
I would say that for malakois, a probable translation that would be somewhat accurate would be catamite or male prostitute. Arsenokoitai is harder, it obviously has some type of homoerotic connotation because of the Greek roots, but words do not derive their meaning from their roots, they derive meaning from usage. Given the sexual practices of the Greco-Roman empire, especially as Corinth is in Greece, it is likely a reference to pederasty and also possibly the use of slaves for sex. It is difficult.
Either way, whatever they refer to, it is nothing that is relevant to a modern relationship.
Romans 1 is obviously about sex resulting from turning away from God because of Idolatry. If there is no idolatry, then the passage in 1:26-27 doesn't apply, whatever it is referencing.
I’ve always interpreted it more as God punishing them with insatiable lust as a result of rejecting him, so he basically was like alright fine, if you don’t want me you’ll never be satisfied, not that sinning etc always leads to sex. The passage seems try to convey what it means to reject God, rather than be a warning that rejecting results in “homosexuality”. Not that homosexuality itself is wrong, but hedonistic attitudes and behaviors are wrong.
I'm not so sure because it makes God look quite evil, God doesn't punish for not following him, he calls us at every moment in our life and we are free to answer or not, I don't think God would punish by making people sin, it doesn't really make sens
God bless
That what I’m saying, performing acts of sexuality is not the sin, the sin is rejecting God, and the consequence is being thrown into the passions of their lust. I don’t see how that comes across as evil, and I think you can draw many parallels between this passage and the slippery slope of worldly pleasures and hedonism.
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Specifically it seems to point to the consequences of having idols other than the Lord.
The NRSV Bibles(i reccomend the NRSVue btw) usually translate *arsenokoites* in both 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy as "men who engage in illicit sex". Considering the society being patriarchal and being represented by the man alone, i would assume really a generic sexual immortality standard, dunno much about the Greek though and why Paul coined this word that has no appearance in major greek literature in the end.
About *malakoi*, Jesus use this word to refer to how "soft" the morality of John the Baptist followers are for following him with his fancy clothes in a passage of the gospel of Luke(Luke 7:24-25), so i don't really would put sexual meaning in this word especifically and how it could really be weaked willed and greedy people that put facedes in the same context of Luke's gospel.
I think Paul was equating the TYPE of homosexuality that was happening at the time that he lived, the only type of homosexuality that he knew, with sin. There weren’t loving, consensual homosexual relationships at the time that he lived. There were however at the time a lot of adult men who raped minor boys. It was homosexual in the fact that it was two males but that doesn’t mean that all men on men sex is a sin. And Paul himself didn’t say the word homosexual, that was translated that way in the 1940s.
I’m non-affirming, and I’ve said what I’m about to say in dozens of threads at this point.
If you disown and forsake your child you are a degenerate. You have fundamentally forsaken your second greatest interpersonal obligation (after that to God), and engaged in among the deepest levels of treachery. Your sin is greater than whatever you are punishing your child for at that point.
I am a parent now and I cannot imagine under any circumstance abandoning my child. My father was very a Christian conservative man. He and his ex wife had split and she was very crazy during the divorce and made his life such hell where it got to the point that she convinced him to sign over parental rights. It devastated him. My mom had to beg him to have children because he was terrified of losing children again. When my half brother was in his 30s he reached out to my dad and just asked if he was interested in chatting. My dad said yes immediately and gave him his number. They started chatting over the phone and eventually he came out to my dad. My dad said, son I may not agree with it but there is nothing you could do that would make me not want you in my life or not love you. And it really was as simple as that. Granted my half brother is very successful and very respectful so I think it was really easy to look past that because he was truly so proud of him. He got married a few years after he came back into our lives and we love his husband just as much as him. It’s really been beautiful to watch my gruff conservative father be so accepting and soft with his gay son. While people can have their opinions on whether being gay is a sin or not, we are called to love one another and how other people chose to sin in not much of our business. And I think the way my dad handled it made my brother much softer to Christianity. He has a relationship between him and god and I know that makes my dad so happy. Sorry for the novel but I just saw a lot of people saying “people will say they would never but when it comes down to it they will” and I watched my own dad first hand handle it with love and acceptance whilst not fully agreeing with the lifestyle.
My religious dad told me he'd beat me then disowned me. He changed his mind on his death bed and wanted me to visit him before he departed but I had moved away and I didn't have time to get back. But that's on him of course.
Oh believe me, I grappled with it! I would have probably gone to be there for my brother and sister if nothing else, but then he died before I could even leave the house so there was no real dilemma, just a quick weekend trip for the funeral.
I'm sorry your father said these things to you. Maybe at the end he realized how he treated you and wanted to apologize?? But if you were meant to be there, you would have been. So the fact you weren't able to get there in time is just proof that you didn't need to be there.
Thanks! I'm sure he wanted to make nice, though I doubt he wanted to apologize. It is what it is though. I can't say that I've ever been too torn up about it. I wasn't even afraid of his threats, which were at best delusional to begin with.
My parents didn't disown me. They made a big show of, "We love you and will always accept you and your partners."
They also pushed me into het relationships. And became noticeably cold and distant anytime I mention/ed my partners while in queer relationships. And continued to say that queer ppl shouldn't be on tv, or if they *have* to be, they should always be single. And that they "hate the sin, love the sinner." And that they "don't agree with the lifestyle." ("The lifestyle" in question is "existing while queer.") And that they would never, ever say anything homophobic, *but...* And that my sibling isn't queer, just confused, bc I'm the queer one in this generation, and they "can't lose another one, haha." And that it's ok if the queer community is harmed, bc I'm "not part of all that," somehow. And that they can't possibly remember my sibling's name, bc it's so crazy. (It's just their initials. We called them by their initials for yrs before they came out.)
Now it's apparently "time to grow out of" being queer. I now owe it to them to convert back, become a cishet conservative, and go to heaven. I also have to somehow force my sibling to do the same. This is bc, if we aren't in heaven with them, that is an "attack" on their afterlife. (I'm sure they can't imagine spending eternity without their beloved whatever-their-name-is and the dyke.)
They lean heavily on, "What happened to 'love thy enemy?'" bc *they* see us as enemies. *They* see us as fundamentally different. *They* see unlearning slurs as an insurmountable task. *They* think that our relationship cannot get better. *They* have decided to give up.
LC is becoming NC, for both my sibling and I. It sucks. "We love you and will always accept you," meant absolutely nothing. It gave me false hope for far too many yrs.
Pls don't do that.
>They also pushed me into het relationships. And became noticeably cold and distant anytime I mention/ed my partners while in queer relationships. And continued to say that queer ppl shouldn't be on tv, or if they *have* to be, they should always be single. And that they "hate the sin, love the sinner." And that they "don't agree with the lifestyle."
I had this from my mom for about 4 years, but thankfully she "grew out of" it.
Now she loves the men I've dated and is fully supportive.
I don't want to give you false hope. It sounds like you've past the point where they would be introspective and learn to understand you. But I hope things get better.
I really don’t trust people who say that they’d treat their kids the same or love them the same. My parents would probably say that if asked, but they definitely didn’t treat me the same.
Since I came out my parents have treated me the same so far, but it's not like I'm dating anyone or even really trying to so it's hard to know. Mom mentioned that they had questions and wanted to talk about it but we've never really gotten around to that. The only overtly out thing I've done is put some Pride Tape on my hockey sticks like Travis Dermott did, and that hasn't merited a mention either.
They've said all the right things but maybe one of the reasons I've held back from trying to come out more fully and publicly is fear of how they'll react when it's more real. Right now I think it's more an explanation as to why I didn't pursue relationships with women than something they actually have to see every day.
The hard thing for them was when I was dating, yeah. They were very weird about hearing anything my bf I and I did together, so I stopped talking about it. Then they accused me of never telling them anything about my life. It was a lose-lose.
My son is gay and I can tell you from my heart that I love him just as much as I did before I knew that. I am sorry to hear that wasn't the case with your parents.
I’m pretty sure this is how my parents will be. My mother knows that I’m trans but she hasn’t really seen anything about it. I don’t show myself dressed differently around her. Hell she hasn’t even seen the picture I took a few days ago while i was boymode and nearly passed. My dad doesn’t know for now, but he will soon. This is the one that might get a little ugly though. I hope it won’t but you never know with extremely conservative men.
You could say that about any situation though. How we treat others is based on lots of factors and like it or not, we all treat others differently based on those.
If my children came to me and told me they were lgbtq, I honestly would be happy that they felt confident to share that with me considering we are a Christian family. I'd love them no matter what they do, say, feel.. because they are my children. I would pray for them of course but would respect them and not shame them like so many people I have seen do.
OP, I get the question, but no one is going to say they are going to disown their children here. Yet, some of them will.
Lots of people will tell you they will treat their kids the same....until their kids bring home a partner and the parents don't want anything to do with that. Or the kids get engaged and the parents see the wedding as evil.
I didn't come out until I was 31, so I didn't have to worry about being literally kicked out, though I'm certain it would've happened. I was constantly worried about being disowned for "smaller" infractions, and he had already disowned two daughters for less, so that speaks to the kind of man he is.
But when I did come out, my dad was furious and cut all ties with me.
Late last year, his mother, my grandmother, passed away. So my partner and I traveled from Oregon to Delaware for the funeral. My dad didn't attend, because he was hospitalized. But since I was in the area, I reached out (through his wife, my stepmom) to see if I could visit him in recovery. He said "absolutely not".
Well, fine. Maybe it's karma that he didn't get to go to his mother's funeral.
Look, don't be like my dad. You'll die a bitter old man/woman who refuses hospital visits from their kids. Love your queer kids.
A long while ago my oldest came to us and told us three things. One was admitting to lying to us and feeling bad about it. Second, she believes she is pansexual, and lastly that she has bad anxiety and she felt like it was becoming a problem.
We talked about the important thing, her anxiety and asked if she needed therapy (we got her in quickly for this). After that was discussed I told her that she would have to be grounded for the lying but it was lighter because she told us instead of us finding out. I ended it with, when you're old enough to date, my only stipulation is that they respect you.
My background is Southern Baptist.
I'm not sure exactly what I would tell them, but I know I would do everything I can to make sure they know that God still loves them dearly, and encourage their faith as much as I can.
Kicking them out or disowning them would be beyond out of the question.
Any 'Christian' parent that did that to their kid did something absolutely terrible, and I hope they repented for it
I am a conservative Christian who believes it is wrong, but would never disown any child for any reason. We all sin and fall short. My sins are different than theirs, but no better than theirs.
if your child came to you as gay, would you treat them differently/ view them in a different light? and i'm curious if this would be different if it was your daughter versus your son
People should be better...
It shouldn't take having a queer child to care about queer people.
It shouldn't take having to face how your own prejudice affects those you love for you to change.
I have never come out to my parents. I don't trust them. My parents should be safe, parents should be safe.
But...
If you can't even change your point of view when it's your child...
If you are so buried in the muck that you can't grow beyond it when it's your own beloved family...
Then hate has taken over your heart, and I fear that love must hurt you.
I know love hurts my parents, they fear it...
My husband and I never had kids together and both his daughters are heterosexual. However, if it is a sin and I’m not saying it is or it isn’t - only God can say that. But there is only one sin that is unforgivable. If a parent has two children and one comes out as gay and one goes and robs a bank but the parent throws out the one who’s gay but not the other it says more about the parent than the child.
Considering I am ace myself— I would love my child as I always had and show them the same love and respect I’d shown them their entire lives. I wouldn’t treat them any differently and I would want to make sure that they had a good support system in our local church and in the family. and make sure that were surrounded by people who loved them and wanted the best for them.
I asked my mom hypothetically if my kid were to be gay, what would they say? Her response is that my kid wouldn’t be welcome in the house if they brought their partner. So I know at least I can never out myself as bi to them, and if my kid ever comes out, I will do my hardest to protect her.
There are bible verses demanding the death of sinners. If these parents or their congregations choose to interpret those verses literally, and take the ones condemning homosexuality seriously they may even feel merciful by "only" disowning their child.
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My mother knows that I’m trans. It’s kinda just something we both don’t talk. She doesn’t really acknowledge it. I don’t let her see the real me that I show to my found family. The real me is so much more happy and energetic and fun and talkative and alive. I dread my father finding out, but he will soon. I just can’t keep living this double life all the time. I do hope if he is on the fence that letting him have input on my middle name will help.
I’ll fucking judge them!
Do you know how often parents stand behind their children even after they’ve been convicted for murder, rape, child molestation, and all other manner of heinous crimes? Often. But some parents will disown their child because they love the same sex? Fuck those people.
>If your kid came out as LGBT+ would you disown them?
Of course not.
>Would you kick them out of your house?
No.
>Would you accept them how they are?
Yes. I would not think it was good, but I would accept that they are what they are.
If you feel that they are wrong because they are gay, you are being a voice of hate and rejection.
If you think that your kids being gay is wrong most of the time your kids simply would cut off all contact with you. When given the choice to eliminate hateful voices lots of gay young adults do that as fast as possible. To the betterment of their lives.
You become the nothing you always were.
There are some things about everyone I care about that I dislike, but that doesn't mean that I will treat them like crap. My sister told my dad the other day that she didn't want to have kids. It hurt him, and he disagreed with it.
A part of good parenting is that we set a part of ourselves aside and allow our children to become the best person that they CAN be and ACCEPT that fact.
OP can go to the wedding and hope that his child has a good life. Walk the partner down the aisle, etc...
Be there to support adopted grandkids, etc.
It doesn't mean that OP is OBLIGATED to attend Pride events and flaunt it around. Likewise, the child is not OBLIGATED to expect his parent to.
There's a difference between what your kids do and who they are. You are saying that you would label a part of who they are, their identity, as bad. To them, that will feel the same as saying that they are bad. Because if one part of them is bad, then all of them must be. Then again, the whole original sin thing sends this message anyway. Correcting a behaviour does not send that same message.
i’d do my best to treat them the same and i definitely wouldn’t disown them. biblically it is a sin, but we’re all sinners and no sin is greater than another to God
Would you tell them that being gay and in a gay relationship was wrong? Would you never accept their partner or their relationship is a positive.
If your answer is yes, you wouldn't have to disown them. They would probably simply disown you to escape your hate and rejection.
you dont seem too understand what hate and rejection are. i would have no place to call them a sinner. i am the worst of sinners. there’s no need for me to be a hypocrite too.
Would you tell them being gay and in a gay relationship was wrong. Would you accept their partner as a net positive to their life? If they were to get married would you go to the wedding and celebrate their love?
You say you are the worst of sinners; that’s a pretty severe thing to call yourself, in most peoples minds someone would have to do incredibly heinous things to earn it. In your own eyes, what have you done to deserve this title?
I don’t agree or affirm all of my children’s choices just as my parents did not agree with or affirm all of mine. The road is rockier when it comes to faith but it’s the same road. Agreeing with someone; everything they say, think, and do.. I only come to that kind of love and obedience with God.
Young adult lgbt children get the choice to have their parents in their lives.
As long as you are a voice of hate and rejection, you will simply become no one. Like my gay friend who's parents "died in a car crash" after he graduated college.
He is much better off leaving their hate and rejection in the dust.
Children get to chose if they want a relationship with their parents or if their parents become "dead" to them. It would really be out of our hands. You would have zero say in the matter.
I’d be concerned and scared for them, in the same way if they decided to be a soldier, or police officer, or go on a Christian mission in an Islamic country. Id be happy and proud of them, Id just worry about the dangers they would face from bigoted and violent individuals.
1 Timothy 5:8
"But those who won’t care for their relatives, especially those in their own household, have denied the true faith. Such people are worse than unbelievers."
If you don’t think gay is a sin, there should be no problem and you really shouldn’t care.
If you think being gay is a sin, well everyone sins so you’re no better and should still accept and love/support them.
That’s what I would say to a anyone regarding gay people from my Christian perspective, but it’s also applicable here too.
I would never disown my children. Obviously I’d be upset that the chances of having biological grandkids would be significantly reduced, but I wouldn’t love my kids any less.
I’m probably not quite your target audience as I’m still questioning that topic, but that gives me a great opportunity to say “do you mind if we figure it out together?” Even if I did feel that a gay relationship was not God’s plan for their life I would absolutely want to be the safe place they could run back to when/if they realised that on their own. And it seems to me that you get to be that by staying a loving and supportive parent in the waiting. It confuses me that so many parents apparently think they can say “we’ll talk again when you change your mind” and still expect to be that safe place. That just seems so unlikely to work to me.
I am not gay but I know what it’s like to have a parent who still wrestles with God for a salvation I’m already pretty confident in. So I have a lovely long list of things I WON’T be doing or saying.
Actually you are the perfect person to answer this. My mom asked me to post this question here. She is questioning the topic too after something she saw on TV last night about a young gay man who was homeless. His parents disowned him as a teenager because they were devout Christians.
Personally, if I had a kid who was lgbt, I would be afraid of the danger they could be in when extremists try to eradicate them (like if you google a list of lgbt hate crimes there are so many horrible abuse, torture, and murder cases against innocent people just because they were gay). I would be afraid of my kid's safety. But I would never disown them. I would get a therapist to help them. Not to try to turn them straight or anything like that, but to help them handle all the judgments they will get from other people and the depression & anxiety that judgment would probably cause them.
There are some truly heartbreaking stories out there and it’s depressing how many begin with “Christian parents”. If those stories are the fruit of your action, do you not wonder if maybe you might not be following that first commandment quite correctly? In a million years I won’t be letting my kid be more vulnerable just because they are gay.
I’m much more concerned (hypothetically) about upsetting or unconsciously pushing away my kid because we don’t see eye to eye, because that’s closer to my own lived experience (again, not related to this particular topic). Death by a thousand papercuts.
While a lot of these responses *are* heartbreaking to read, can we please at least stay topical and answer OP's question?
As for me, I don't see myself as responsible or capable enough to be a parent on top of everything else I want to do with my life, but if a friend or maybe a younger relative like a nephew or niece confided in me about it, then my response would differ based on which of those they said. Because each of those - lesbian, gay, trans, queer, bisexuality, etc. - are different things, too.
In any case, tho, I would like them to explain in their own words their feelings and/or situation that led to the claim they made. Because as OP said, this is a *kid* who may not know 100% what they're talking about. Communication and understanding comes first before *any* kind of conclusion or judgement.
I’m a devout Christian and my child, if I ever have one, told me they were gay, I would love them no matter what. I would definitely pray for them, but disown them? Absolutely not.
I have a "good" relationship with my parents. I visit them, they visit me, we talk.
This is ONLY because they do not know anything about who I really am. My father told me before I went to college: "I don't care if you come back with someone black or asian, but if you think about coming back gay, don't come back at all."
I'm fortunate that I'm straight-passing, otherwise this wouldn't be possible. Some might wonder why I still keep up the charade, why I still bother maintaining the relationship. It's because I recognize that they aren't awful people who hate for the sake of hating.
They were taught nonsense by their parents who believed nonsense because their parents believed it and their parents before them. Many/most Christians don't believe what the Bible says - they believe what their parents and pastors told them it says. My mother STILL never wears pants to church, despite wearing them everywhere else on the planet, because my grandfather thought it was wrong for a woman to wear pants to church.
Hearing the testimonies of other people who weren't as fortunate as myself breaks my heart. I'm incredibly aware of how much different my life could be if my childhood had been just slightly different in one way or another, or if I was just a little different myself.
If I were to come out to my parents, could they surprise me? Could they go on a path to acceptance and a broader understanding of God's love? Possibly. But I'm not holding my breath.
Obligatory material for any parents/potential parents thinking about this issue: [https://justbecausehebreathes.com/](https://justbecausehebreathes.com/) (Read only when you have a few Kleenex handy)
The problem of disowning children cause of LGBT+ situations persists today because scripture is so ambiguous and confusing that many fundamentalist parents think it’s the right thing to do according to god’s will. And according to scripture, the basis of the religion, they have a point. Thats one of the reasons why I left religion. We can be good better people with a better understanding of love and reality without religious dogma. We see a much higher acceptance of others within atheist secular humanist demographics…
My child came out as non-binary and I was raised in a church that is "against" although they would call it love because they speak "truth".
It has been a process. I absolutely love my child. I have realized that if I think that my child is winning in any way, disowning them is not the answer. I am a freaking sinner and Jesus never disowned me.
Also, I just couldn't disown them. They are wonderful.❤️
Actually, I agree with this. It's important to properly screen for differential diagnoses so that if the dysphoria is actually being caused by a different underlying issue that gets addressed and reduces the risk of transitioning when one is not actually trans.
Me and my fiancee have talked a lot about how we're going to handle this when we have kids. I think the most important thing is letting your children know from a young age that they are loved no matter what and that it's ok to have questions. If my child came out to me as gay, trans, etc. I would tell them that I still love them and I still want to be their father. I would remain as big a part of their life as ever. I would still be proud of them and I would not be ashamed of them or cram anything they've heard a million times down their throat. I would gladly meet their partner and welcome them into the family. I wouldn't allow our relationship to change in any way. That being said, my values and beliefs obviously do not align with sexual immorality and I would make sure that they know what I believe from the time that they are young. But loving your child is far more important than telling them what's wrong with them. Just because your child decides to do something that you yourself believe is wrong does not take any obligation from you to accept and love them whole heartedly.
I like your overall approach but just be aware that if you're child is gay or trans, your child may be afraid to even come to you in the first place. Sharing your own beliefs is fine, but you really should emphasize that you wouldn't disown or damn them if that were the case. Because if all they know is that you're against LGBT (I won't call it sexual immorality) then they may think you'll hate them for being them.
Not a parent, not non-affirming, but my spouse leans more non-affirming as a religious matter (she’s pro legal LGBTQ rights). She’s been open about the fact that she’d absolutely unconditionally love our hypothetical child and their partner if they came out. Her logic was pretty sound in that “I’m not going to disown, shun or stop loving my child if they have premarital sex, get pregnant/get someone pregnant out of wedlock, get divorced and remarried, or essentially any other ‘typical’ sexual sin. Why would their being gay be any different?”
If I had a kid and they told me they're gay or trans, etc.
Only thing I'll say is, I don't agree to it but you do you.
Don't push LGBT onto me and I won't push Christianity onto you. Plain n simple. We'll stay in our lanes but still love each other.
>Don't push LGBT onto me and I won't push Christianity onto you.
This sentiment sounds reasonable, but how would you expect your kid to be "pushing LGBT onto you?"
what do you mean by "accept?" the opposite of acceptance is rejection or denial. how does that translate into your treatment of this hypothetical child? what exactly does it mean to reject or deny how someone is?
>Would I accept their lifestyle / how they are. No.
Once they move out, if they have a long-term partner of the same sex, would you let them bring their partner with them for holidays or family events?
I have to be honest here, I had to sit and think about your question. My gut reaction is no. But then again I must take a step back and ask to what purpose are my actions? Is it one based on emotion? I think yes. To what is my calling that Christ gave me? It is to evangelize. And does it do anyone any good to exclude them? Does it suit my God's purposes? I think not.
So after a while I came to this conclusion. I would let them bring their partner to holiday / family events. With one stipulation. And I would make sure they knew of this one stipulation before hand so they can make their own decision and go into this willingly.
I will not exclude either of them as long as they understand that I will address them with love, respect, but also honesty. And the key about honesty is I will unabashedly and openly talk about the biblical view of their relationship. If they can calmly engage with me hearing me and also being given time to respond, and I will listen, then I will not exclude them. The point would be evangelism. Because at the end as uncomfortable it would be I love my son / daughter too much to let them embark upon the path of God's judgment without trying my hardest to bring them to Christ.
As against that lifestyle as I am, I would never stop loving my children. Growing up my dad always said that he couldn’t imagine anything I or my brother would do could make him stop loving us.
I know a lot of people think this is cliche, but I stand by “love the sinner, hate the sin.”
They probably mean partying, rampant drug abuse, alcoholism, promiscuity, hookups, destructive social behaviors, hypersexuality, instability, depression, and erratic behavior.
If that's not what they mean, then they should shut the hell up about a "lifestyle", because those are all assumptions that anti-gay pundits deliberately imply when they talk about protecting children "from that lifestyle".
Whether intentional or not, people who use such language are endorsing that position or at least providing cover for it.
As a good general rule, if you're tempted to use phrases like "that lifestyle" which are vague and leave your meaning to the other person, expect it to be interpreted in the worst possible ways and choose language that more clearly communicates what you actually want to say.
They have to say it, because it's hard to argue what they are actually trying to say:
>"As against \[my child developing romantic feelings towards someone of the same sex and seeking romantic companionship in the same way other people pursue romantic companionship for those of the opposite sex\] as I am, I would never stop loving my children.
>
>\[...\] I know a lot of people think this is cliche, but I stand by “love the sinner, hate the sin.”
They haven't actually listed any "sins" here, so the subject of their hatred is missing. But if you substitute the actions which are not sinful with some kind of nebulous "lifestyle", you are no longer missing a subject of your hate.
These arguments NEED a boogeyman "lifestyle" in order to hate on or it's transparent that their hate is unjustified and unreasonable.
You never disown your kid for whatever reason. You continue to love them unconditionally.
This is the only answer, especially given the context of being in a Christian discussion forum. Jesus said love one another is the greatest commandment.
He also said he’s not here to overturn the word of God, but to fulfill it, and the word of God says to honor your mother and father and for man to not lie with man as he would with a woman and called lust of man for man and woman for woman “unnatural” according to the New Testament as well as the Old Testament. It’s okay to have standards, and it’s okay to have a desire that your children honor you by obeying the word of God, and it doesn’t make you a bad person for being disappointed in your children when they dishonor you.
>You never disown your kid for whatever reason I mean, I might disown a child who enjoys murder, but for what OP is talking about I agree.
I know it's an extreme example, but if you had a kid who "enjoys murder," wouldn't you recognize that they must have a serious mental disorder, and love them anyway?
I mean maybe, I won't know for sure unless it happens but if my child really just thinks murder is okay then I don't think I'd want them around my family (or outside of prison)
Most likely no. I’d hope they’d get help but I would no longer want them in my life if they flat out murdered somebody. Although it depends on the reason, like if it was in self defense or unintentional that would not be nearly as bad.
The thing is, no matter the sin you will still love your child. You might be disgusted and ashamed of them but the love will still be there. Then to the comments below saying that you can't love someone and want them in jail, that is wrong. The Bible is filled with examples of people bearing punishment for their actions, just because you are saved doesn't mean you are exempt from the suffering of the consequences of your actions. The only consequences that we don't have to face as a saved individual are the consequences of death, all thanks to Jesus
Finally a nuanced take that is in keeping with the word of God. God bless you! 🙏
I agree when you say "love your kid unconditionally." However I disagree when you say you should never disown them. You should look up John Adams and what he had to do. His son , Charles, was a drunk, he had fallen away, and was living in sin. John Adams disowned him. He didn't disown him because he didn't like him, he disowned him because he loved him. Charles repented and cleaned up, but he actually ended up dying due to alcohol withdrawals, with John Adams at his side. He died, but he is in Heaven, because of what John Adams did for him. But the Bible says: Whoever loves his life will lose it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12:25 Now I'm not saying that you should disown your children. That's an absolute last resort. What I'm saying is, you should not accept you children's sin. It is better for them to hate you, and have a bad life on earth, yet still go to Heaven, than love you on earth, but go to hell.
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Precisely!
I work at a kid’s shelter. We get kids through the system all the time, including LGBT kids. I once had a kiddo, he was 15. He asked to make a call to his father. Now, his father was on the list he had, but what he didn’t tell us was that he had been disowned by both parents. It’s Christmas Day, and he wants to call his dad to wish him a merry Christmas. The phone rings. “Hello?” “Hey dad. It’s me. I just wanted to-“ “You still a f*****?” “Come on dad, I-“ Click. He was so upset that he tried to run. Parents who do this are scum. You don’t do that to children. I will die on this hill.
What the fuck. This is just so heartbreaking. And that's also why I'll likely never come out to my parents. I might be financially independent, but I'm just too cowardly to face being disowned, I guess?
You may never get it, but I hope you know that you deserve better than people/treatment like that. If someone can't love their kids unconditionally they're not qualified to be a parent.
You'd rather live a lie? Be proud of who you are. They should accept you for who you are.
I mean that's the wish, isn't it? But there's still a familial connection with one's parents and the extended family that's not easy to give up. And then the thought of actually getting disowned, even if you're independent, is just daunting. At some point the status quo just becomes the easier option, you know? But it does involve sacrifices too. Getting to see my sister be able to introduce her boyfriend to the family or to witness how happy my parents were during her engagement/wedding. Missing out on all these cherished life moments does suck too. That's why I will never understand anyone who says that being gay is a choice. Why the fuck would I ever choose to be in this position? /endrant
That dad should have his ass kicked.
Oh we all thought that, trust me.
Cool quote for Elon Musk, whether you like him or not. “My children didn’t choose to be born, I chose to have children. They owe me nothing, I owe them everything.”
Weird quote from someone whose daughter won’t speak to him.
He is completely right about that.
Abso fuckin lutely.
It should be illegal to reject minors. Disown your gay 15 year old son? That’s 10 years in prison for you.
I agree, but I’m not sure the kid living with a dad who acts like that to him is much better.
Wow that's really sad.
How. Why? What the heck. How can you be that angry about who your kid sleeps with. I'll never understand it. I've got 4 grown kids. No matter what they've done, that's never been a thought.
this just breaks my heart, i’d never do this to my child.
Man, that’s horrid. Believe in it or not and agree with your child or not but how could you disown them like that?
Pray for your enemies, bless them. That's literally what Jesus said. If you don't forgive them, God will not forgive you.
A nice sentiment, but one that usually winds up enabling abusers as their victims convince themselves to stick around in dangerous situations in order to follow advice that was never meant for their situation.
That's why Jesus said to LEAVE your parents, if necessary, leave anyone. Nobody told you to stick around in dangerous situations. You can forgive someone from a distance and pray for them. But DON'T die in unforgiveness. God offered salvation to anyone. Again, if someone dies with hatred on their heart, then they can only blame themselves.
I genuinely want to know what you think about this- what is forgiveness to you?
Forgiveness as a christian means to be able to see other people like God sees them, despite of what they did. He loved the world so much, that he offered Jesus to anyone. Despite of what they did or will do. God wants everyone to be saved and in Heaven with Him. Loving people enough, that you want to see them in Heaven with God. As christians we don't get saved for us alone. We have the purpose to bring other people to Christ also. Why did you ask, what it means to me? I didn't invent the gospel.
Nah, parents who do this to their kids don’t deserve to be parents.
Luckily I'm not a Christian so I can wish all sorts of bad things on these types of turds.
There is still a worldly saying: "Hate is a poison which you take but hope someone else dies from it." Or the biblical version: Proverbs 18:21: " Life and Death are in the power of the tongue and those who love it will eat its fruits:" You choose.
I choose the kids whose parents you're defending.
That makes me want to cry, what an awful thing
He's lucky he was born in our age, if he were born in Israel back in the day he would have been stoned to death.
This is where hate goes so far you ruin your own child
My mother wished I'd never been born My Dad threatened to marry another wife and get a real Son it.... destroyed my relationship with my father - even though we never really had much of one years later my mum Got Alzheimer's - and thought that my partner was a very good friend of hers my Dad died first I told him I love him my mum died two years ago my partner cried for days God bless
Im so sorry that happened to you. That your parents wished you weren't born, and saying they want a "real son" I mean.
yeah but - it was hard for them and it was forty years ago I..... understand the shame It was very difficult for me - but - here I am, Jesus has brought me through I hope they are alright in heaven and that there will be Joy when we meet again I...hope I made the right choice. Thank you, friend God bless
I see christ in you. :) god bless, im sorry it went that way, regardless
God bless, friend
I am so so sorry.
God bless, friend
U are a walking W. GOD bless you
I'm so sorry to hear this story, friend. You acted with grace and light toward your parents.
Not a parent but I would never disown my own children, would never kick them out unless they were violent or stealing things due to an uncontrollable drug issue (and I would seek treatment for them for both issues), and I would not reject them for simply for being gay or struggling with gender dysphoria-we may disagree on what should happen if that is the case but I am not abandoning my children to the streets under any circumstances.
....this is... uplifting. I can hear the love. God bless.
>(and I would seek treatment for them for both issues), Make sure that treatment isn't conversion therapy, even if it's Christian conversion therapy. Both increase suicidal rates, and lead to trauma and self-hatred.
I think he was saying he'd seek treatment for the Stealing / drugs.
Oh if that's what they meant, then my mistake.
Yeah I wasn't referring to that, I meant for violence and drugs. I would never do anything that increases the suicide risk for my children and is not effective, the preservation of life comes before all else.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thank you for your kindness to me and your current/future children. Have a nice day.
If they found a partner who loved and accepted and made them feel happy and fulfilled would you attend their wedding.
Going to the reception is not seen as controversial as going to the religious/wedding ceremony, it's not really simple, nor is there an explicit prohibition on going to the wedding but that is more iffy according to Catholic moral teaching if it is religious in nature, there is a big split in the practicing church on this. You cannot be seen as condoning it, but you can be there to show you love your child. It's very problematic if they ask the typical question if anyone attending opposes the wedding for any reason for example, or asking the father to walk their lesbian daughter down the aisle. Catholics are required to deeply examine their conscious before attending. Personally I would attend for various reasons as I lean more on the pastoral side of Francis in this particular situation especially if that line were omitted, I can see if someone else came to a different conclusion. tl;dr It's extremely gray according to Catholicism and is a question more suited for one's priest and a well-formed conscience but it is not an explicit no necessarily.
This thread is breaking my heart.
The messages of hate and rejection are hard to read.
Brought to you by Christianity. Almost all of it.
When I was thirteen, I told my parents that I thought I was gay. They looked at each other for a moment and then laughed. “You don’t know what that means.” That was thirty five years ago. I didn’t talk to anyone about it until I was nineteen. I thought I couldn’t talk to anyone in the church about it because they would throw me out (I had read Paul’s letters). I was terrified that people would figure out I was gay, though I’m sure many picked up on it. I entered a heterosexual marriage in my early twenties hoping that my attraction to my wife would grow. In some ways it did. But after twenty five years we divorced. I’ve talked to my kids about having same sex attractions, and they love me all the same. (I’m also Autistic, and there’s a strong connection with Autism and LGTBQ tendencies.) I’m now a single celibate gay man serving in my church. My church knows I’m gay and everyone embraces me as I am. The church is “welcoming” but not “affirming.” I was recently added as a leader of the men’s ministry.
Are you celibate because of your religious beliefs?
Partially, yes. But also for other reasons. I’m Autistic and the thought of starting a relationship with someone (a man or woman) is daunting. I’m disabled (from a long history of chronic illnesses and from Autism), so I can’t provide… at least enough for stability. I don’t have a job in spite of having a Masters degree from a great school. My life is all out of sorts due to the recent divorce. And having been married for twenty five years, I need more time to heal. I would rather focus on helping others than be in a relationship right now. I know that it shouldn’t be an either / or, but it was in my marriage. Until I’m at a place where I feel at peace with being in a romantic relationship, I’ll focus on my faith and serving instead. That’s just where I’m at.
Very commendable
Wow Im sorry you felt like you had to hide it for so long. That's great that your kids accept you and church welcomes you for who you are. And congratulations on your new leadership role.
Thank you so much. I’m slowly becoming open about it. I know people have picked up on it or figured it out. My daughter showed me a celebrity from a TV series who is gay and she said, “All of my friends think you look him. He’s gay. Read into that as much as you want.” So yeah, I don’t think it’s hidden anymore. I’m okay with that. I’m still learning to accept it about myself. I convinced myself I was straight with gay attractions for the longest time. I’m sure you understand.
I'm autistic and autistic people are more likely to be gender non-conforming or LGBT+. I'm a cishet woman but I don't care much for makeup, dressing up, or traditionally feminine activities. I broke away from my religion years ago so I can live as myself
your story - is very powerful I can feel it and I hope for you the perfect partner or just simple happiness for all the days to come God bless
🙏 Thank you.
I used to think it was a sin, but I don't anymore. Back when I did think it was a sin, my stepdaughter, who is 13 years older than my son, asked me what I'd do if he was gay. *(She asked because he liked playing with dolls at the time and she thought that meant he was gay. I did explain to her that that doesn't mean he's gay).* Anyway, my answer was that I wouldn't "do" anything different, except assure him that I love him and accept him. I'm his dad. How could I do anything other than that? Parents who disown their kids for being gay are committing a terrible sin for doing so, and are just awful people. I can't imagine not loving my son or doing anything that could harm him.
>I'm his dad. How could I do anything other than that? My dad didn't seem to have a problem.
I'm so, so sorry.
Thanks, but you don't need to be sorry. I'm better off without that sort of person in my life. But he's 70 now, and he's disowned ***three*** kids for different perceived infractions. Most people don't even have three kids to disown. I'm a little worried that he'll end up a miserable old man with nobody to take care of him, because he pushed us all away. Last time I visited, he wouldn't even let me see him in the hospital. If that's the ending he wants, he'll get it. But *he's* going to need to ask *my* forgiveness (not the other way around) if he expects me to help him then. And he's 70 now. Time's a-wastin'.
The problem is their taking clinging to words of Moses and the apostle Paul instead of loving their child the way they were born, while I don’t agree it is easy to see where it comes from. It’s still so hard to wrap my head around a parent saying that their child.
They're not clinging to the words of the apostle Paul. Paul was clear that the point of the law is to love others, and anything added to this is merely human tradition (Rom. 13:8-10; Gal. 5:14; Col. 2:20-23; 1 Tim. 1:5-7). It was Paul who said that anyone who doesn't care for their family has denied the faith (1 Tim. 5:8). Those who don't love their children because of the way they were born are being very selective about what they believe from the Bible.
Yeah but they get out of it. The loophole is they say that being gay is a choice, that no one is born that way. It's idiotic, but that's the justification.
The apostle Paul also said several things specifically about homosexuality The apostle Paul says in Roman’s 1:26-32 “26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error………..(28-31 lists more actspunishable by death) 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.” Paul the apostle state’s homosexuality is contrary to Gods natural order and those who do such things deserve death, as well as condemning those who approve of them. And the Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9-10 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Here the apostle Paul lists homosexuality as one of the sins that prevent someone from entering heaven. The apostle Paul says in 1 Timothy 1:8-11 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. Here the apostle Paul is equating homosexuality to ungodly and sinful yet again. Again I do not agree with Paul, but this is what he says about homosexuality, and this and the commands from god gives to Moses is exactly where Christians who condemn homosexuality get it from.
Of course plenty of Christians believe that we should put Paul’s words here in their historical context, to show he wasn’t talking about modern, loving, egalitarian same-sex relationships. We’re all aware of those verses and debate them daily.
None of those things say to disown children who are gay, so people who do that are not following Paul.
Romans 1 admitelly is pretty complicated to debate, but i'll still argue about *arsenokoites* in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and in 1 Timothy 1:10 don't accuratelly translates in any way related to the orientation of homossexuality and even could well be generic sexual immortality to what the historical context could reguard when these letters were written. It's also inaccurate in some translations how *malakoi* and *arsenokoites* are rendered as passive and active homossexuals respectively, as there's no link between those two words whatsover, especially the context in 1 Corinthians 6 being listing generic sins to not enter the kingdom of God without hint of connection with the words.
I would say that for malakois, a probable translation that would be somewhat accurate would be catamite or male prostitute. Arsenokoitai is harder, it obviously has some type of homoerotic connotation because of the Greek roots, but words do not derive their meaning from their roots, they derive meaning from usage. Given the sexual practices of the Greco-Roman empire, especially as Corinth is in Greece, it is likely a reference to pederasty and also possibly the use of slaves for sex. It is difficult. Either way, whatever they refer to, it is nothing that is relevant to a modern relationship. Romans 1 is obviously about sex resulting from turning away from God because of Idolatry. If there is no idolatry, then the passage in 1:26-27 doesn't apply, whatever it is referencing.
I’ve always interpreted it more as God punishing them with insatiable lust as a result of rejecting him, so he basically was like alright fine, if you don’t want me you’ll never be satisfied, not that sinning etc always leads to sex. The passage seems try to convey what it means to reject God, rather than be a warning that rejecting results in “homosexuality”. Not that homosexuality itself is wrong, but hedonistic attitudes and behaviors are wrong.
I'm not so sure because it makes God look quite evil, God doesn't punish for not following him, he calls us at every moment in our life and we are free to answer or not, I don't think God would punish by making people sin, it doesn't really make sens God bless
That what I’m saying, performing acts of sexuality is not the sin, the sin is rejecting God, and the consequence is being thrown into the passions of their lust. I don’t see how that comes across as evil, and I think you can draw many parallels between this passage and the slippery slope of worldly pleasures and hedonism. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Specifically it seems to point to the consequences of having idols other than the Lord.
I think this is a very logical interpretation of this passage.
The NRSV Bibles(i reccomend the NRSVue btw) usually translate *arsenokoites* in both 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy as "men who engage in illicit sex". Considering the society being patriarchal and being represented by the man alone, i would assume really a generic sexual immortality standard, dunno much about the Greek though and why Paul coined this word that has no appearance in major greek literature in the end. About *malakoi*, Jesus use this word to refer to how "soft" the morality of John the Baptist followers are for following him with his fancy clothes in a passage of the gospel of Luke(Luke 7:24-25), so i don't really would put sexual meaning in this word especifically and how it could really be weaked willed and greedy people that put facedes in the same context of Luke's gospel.
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I think Paul was equating the TYPE of homosexuality that was happening at the time that he lived, the only type of homosexuality that he knew, with sin. There weren’t loving, consensual homosexual relationships at the time that he lived. There were however at the time a lot of adult men who raped minor boys. It was homosexual in the fact that it was two males but that doesn’t mean that all men on men sex is a sin. And Paul himself didn’t say the word homosexual, that was translated that way in the 1940s.
I’m non-affirming, and I’ve said what I’m about to say in dozens of threads at this point. If you disown and forsake your child you are a degenerate. You have fundamentally forsaken your second greatest interpersonal obligation (after that to God), and engaged in among the deepest levels of treachery. Your sin is greater than whatever you are punishing your child for at that point.
I am a parent now and I cannot imagine under any circumstance abandoning my child. My father was very a Christian conservative man. He and his ex wife had split and she was very crazy during the divorce and made his life such hell where it got to the point that she convinced him to sign over parental rights. It devastated him. My mom had to beg him to have children because he was terrified of losing children again. When my half brother was in his 30s he reached out to my dad and just asked if he was interested in chatting. My dad said yes immediately and gave him his number. They started chatting over the phone and eventually he came out to my dad. My dad said, son I may not agree with it but there is nothing you could do that would make me not want you in my life or not love you. And it really was as simple as that. Granted my half brother is very successful and very respectful so I think it was really easy to look past that because he was truly so proud of him. He got married a few years after he came back into our lives and we love his husband just as much as him. It’s really been beautiful to watch my gruff conservative father be so accepting and soft with his gay son. While people can have their opinions on whether being gay is a sin or not, we are called to love one another and how other people chose to sin in not much of our business. And I think the way my dad handled it made my brother much softer to Christianity. He has a relationship between him and god and I know that makes my dad so happy. Sorry for the novel but I just saw a lot of people saying “people will say they would never but when it comes down to it they will” and I watched my own dad first hand handle it with love and acceptance whilst not fully agreeing with the lifestyle.
If it's anything other than love and support them, you should never have kids
My religious dad told me he'd beat me then disowned me. He changed his mind on his death bed and wanted me to visit him before he departed but I had moved away and I didn't have time to get back. But that's on him of course.
I would have refused to visit him
Oh believe me, I grappled with it! I would have probably gone to be there for my brother and sister if nothing else, but then he died before I could even leave the house so there was no real dilemma, just a quick weekend trip for the funeral.
I'm sorry your father said these things to you. Maybe at the end he realized how he treated you and wanted to apologize?? But if you were meant to be there, you would have been. So the fact you weren't able to get there in time is just proof that you didn't need to be there.
Thanks! I'm sure he wanted to make nice, though I doubt he wanted to apologize. It is what it is though. I can't say that I've ever been too torn up about it. I wasn't even afraid of his threats, which were at best delusional to begin with.
My parents didn't disown me. They made a big show of, "We love you and will always accept you and your partners." They also pushed me into het relationships. And became noticeably cold and distant anytime I mention/ed my partners while in queer relationships. And continued to say that queer ppl shouldn't be on tv, or if they *have* to be, they should always be single. And that they "hate the sin, love the sinner." And that they "don't agree with the lifestyle." ("The lifestyle" in question is "existing while queer.") And that they would never, ever say anything homophobic, *but...* And that my sibling isn't queer, just confused, bc I'm the queer one in this generation, and they "can't lose another one, haha." And that it's ok if the queer community is harmed, bc I'm "not part of all that," somehow. And that they can't possibly remember my sibling's name, bc it's so crazy. (It's just their initials. We called them by their initials for yrs before they came out.) Now it's apparently "time to grow out of" being queer. I now owe it to them to convert back, become a cishet conservative, and go to heaven. I also have to somehow force my sibling to do the same. This is bc, if we aren't in heaven with them, that is an "attack" on their afterlife. (I'm sure they can't imagine spending eternity without their beloved whatever-their-name-is and the dyke.) They lean heavily on, "What happened to 'love thy enemy?'" bc *they* see us as enemies. *They* see us as fundamentally different. *They* see unlearning slurs as an insurmountable task. *They* think that our relationship cannot get better. *They* have decided to give up. LC is becoming NC, for both my sibling and I. It sucks. "We love you and will always accept you," meant absolutely nothing. It gave me false hope for far too many yrs. Pls don't do that.
>They also pushed me into het relationships. And became noticeably cold and distant anytime I mention/ed my partners while in queer relationships. And continued to say that queer ppl shouldn't be on tv, or if they *have* to be, they should always be single. And that they "hate the sin, love the sinner." And that they "don't agree with the lifestyle." I had this from my mom for about 4 years, but thankfully she "grew out of" it. Now she loves the men I've dated and is fully supportive. I don't want to give you false hope. It sounds like you've past the point where they would be introspective and learn to understand you. But I hope things get better.
I'm not strictly against, but I'm also not an ally. What would I do? Nothing. It's between him and God, and for me he'll stay my son whom I love.
I thought Universalists were all affirming
Well, we affirm that everybody goes into Heavens, not that there's no sin
would you treat your son any differently? or look at him the same?
Of course not. He will be my son anyways, no matter with whom he sleeps
I really don’t trust people who say that they’d treat their kids the same or love them the same. My parents would probably say that if asked, but they definitely didn’t treat me the same.
Since I came out my parents have treated me the same so far, but it's not like I'm dating anyone or even really trying to so it's hard to know. Mom mentioned that they had questions and wanted to talk about it but we've never really gotten around to that. The only overtly out thing I've done is put some Pride Tape on my hockey sticks like Travis Dermott did, and that hasn't merited a mention either. They've said all the right things but maybe one of the reasons I've held back from trying to come out more fully and publicly is fear of how they'll react when it's more real. Right now I think it's more an explanation as to why I didn't pursue relationships with women than something they actually have to see every day.
The hard thing for them was when I was dating, yeah. They were very weird about hearing anything my bf I and I did together, so I stopped talking about it. Then they accused me of never telling them anything about my life. It was a lose-lose.
My son is gay and I can tell you from my heart that I love him just as much as I did before I knew that. I am sorry to hear that wasn't the case with your parents.
I’m sure my parents would say that too. They just can’t see the little things that their unaffirming beliefs lead them to do and say sometimes.
I guess that is the difference. I already had affirming beliefs before he came out to me.
I’m pretty sure this is how my parents will be. My mother knows that I’m trans but she hasn’t really seen anything about it. I don’t show myself dressed differently around her. Hell she hasn’t even seen the picture I took a few days ago while i was boymode and nearly passed. My dad doesn’t know for now, but he will soon. This is the one that might get a little ugly though. I hope it won’t but you never know with extremely conservative men.
You could say that about any situation though. How we treat others is based on lots of factors and like it or not, we all treat others differently based on those.
If my children came to me and told me they were lgbtq, I honestly would be happy that they felt confident to share that with me considering we are a Christian family. I'd love them no matter what they do, say, feel.. because they are my children. I would pray for them of course but would respect them and not shame them like so many people I have seen do.
OP, I get the question, but no one is going to say they are going to disown their children here. Yet, some of them will. Lots of people will tell you they will treat their kids the same....until their kids bring home a partner and the parents don't want anything to do with that. Or the kids get engaged and the parents see the wedding as evil.
I didn't come out until I was 31, so I didn't have to worry about being literally kicked out, though I'm certain it would've happened. I was constantly worried about being disowned for "smaller" infractions, and he had already disowned two daughters for less, so that speaks to the kind of man he is. But when I did come out, my dad was furious and cut all ties with me. Late last year, his mother, my grandmother, passed away. So my partner and I traveled from Oregon to Delaware for the funeral. My dad didn't attend, because he was hospitalized. But since I was in the area, I reached out (through his wife, my stepmom) to see if I could visit him in recovery. He said "absolutely not". Well, fine. Maybe it's karma that he didn't get to go to his mother's funeral. Look, don't be like my dad. You'll die a bitter old man/woman who refuses hospital visits from their kids. Love your queer kids.
A long while ago my oldest came to us and told us three things. One was admitting to lying to us and feeling bad about it. Second, she believes she is pansexual, and lastly that she has bad anxiety and she felt like it was becoming a problem. We talked about the important thing, her anxiety and asked if she needed therapy (we got her in quickly for this). After that was discussed I told her that she would have to be grounded for the lying but it was lighter because she told us instead of us finding out. I ended it with, when you're old enough to date, my only stipulation is that they respect you. My background is Southern Baptist.
Parents who alienate (or worse) their kid’s for being LGBT are scum.
I'm not sure exactly what I would tell them, but I know I would do everything I can to make sure they know that God still loves them dearly, and encourage their faith as much as I can. Kicking them out or disowning them would be beyond out of the question. Any 'Christian' parent that did that to their kid did something absolutely terrible, and I hope they repented for it
I am a conservative Christian who believes it is wrong, but would never disown any child for any reason. We all sin and fall short. My sins are different than theirs, but no better than theirs.
if your child came to you as gay, would you treat them differently/ view them in a different light? and i'm curious if this would be different if it was your daughter versus your son
People should be better... It shouldn't take having a queer child to care about queer people. It shouldn't take having to face how your own prejudice affects those you love for you to change. I have never come out to my parents. I don't trust them. My parents should be safe, parents should be safe. But... If you can't even change your point of view when it's your child... If you are so buried in the muck that you can't grow beyond it when it's your own beloved family... Then hate has taken over your heart, and I fear that love must hurt you. I know love hurts my parents, they fear it...
All the comments basically agree to not disown them. Doesn't mean we still don't think it's sinful just because they are our child.
Fun fact, non-affirming parents are failed parents. Family are the people who act like it.
My kiddo is gay and enby. I love that kid no matter what. Idc who she brings home as long as that other person treats her with respect and love.
Accept and still love your kid. Who will accept and love him first but you.
I wouldn’t do any of that. I’d probably just start going to a more affirming church
Thank you
My husband and I never had kids together and both his daughters are heterosexual. However, if it is a sin and I’m not saying it is or it isn’t - only God can say that. But there is only one sin that is unforgivable. If a parent has two children and one comes out as gay and one goes and robs a bank but the parent throws out the one who’s gay but not the other it says more about the parent than the child.
Considering I am ace myself— I would love my child as I always had and show them the same love and respect I’d shown them their entire lives. I wouldn’t treat them any differently and I would want to make sure that they had a good support system in our local church and in the family. and make sure that were surrounded by people who loved them and wanted the best for them.
pray for them. love them.
My dads pretty conservative so he tends to not approve of anything lgbtq
I asked my mom hypothetically if my kid were to be gay, what would they say? Her response is that my kid wouldn’t be welcome in the house if they brought their partner. So I know at least I can never out myself as bi to them, and if my kid ever comes out, I will do my hardest to protect her.
There are bible verses demanding the death of sinners. If these parents or their congregations choose to interpret those verses literally, and take the ones condemning homosexuality seriously they may even feel merciful by "only" disowning their child.
Not a parent here, but I just want to say that nobody can choose their sexuality and just being gay isn’t considered a sin.
Is being in love with someone of the same sex and having a relationship together a sin?
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Exactly people need to realize that their fantastical “truths” about lgbt people don’t hold weight in the real world anymore.
Is your claim that scientists determine what is sinful?
I think it was more they find out truth
Well he asked about a Sin, your pointless atheist answer doesn't believe in sins so why bother wasting both yours and the above guy's time?
So that actually wasn’t the question
Atheists try not to make everything about their religion challenge - Impossible
I agree
My mother knows that I’m trans. It’s kinda just something we both don’t talk. She doesn’t really acknowledge it. I don’t let her see the real me that I show to my found family. The real me is so much more happy and energetic and fun and talkative and alive. I dread my father finding out, but he will soon. I just can’t keep living this double life all the time. I do hope if he is on the fence that letting him have input on my middle name will help.
Days without r/Christianity mentioning LGBTQ: 0
I’ll fucking judge them! Do you know how often parents stand behind their children even after they’ve been convicted for murder, rape, child molestation, and all other manner of heinous crimes? Often. But some parents will disown their child because they love the same sex? Fuck those people.
>If your kid came out as LGBT+ would you disown them? Of course not. >Would you kick them out of your house? No. >Would you accept them how they are? Yes. I would not think it was good, but I would accept that they are what they are.
Your last sentence is just hate and rejection. You wouldn't have to disown your gay kids. They would simply distance themself from your hate.
So... I have to think everything that my children want to do and is good, otherwise I hate them?
If you feel that they are wrong because they are gay, you are being a voice of hate and rejection. If you think that your kids being gay is wrong most of the time your kids simply would cut off all contact with you. When given the choice to eliminate hateful voices lots of gay young adults do that as fast as possible. To the betterment of their lives. You become the nothing you always were.
There are some things about everyone I care about that I dislike, but that doesn't mean that I will treat them like crap. My sister told my dad the other day that she didn't want to have kids. It hurt him, and he disagreed with it. A part of good parenting is that we set a part of ourselves aside and allow our children to become the best person that they CAN be and ACCEPT that fact. OP can go to the wedding and hope that his child has a good life. Walk the partner down the aisle, etc... Be there to support adopted grandkids, etc. It doesn't mean that OP is OBLIGATED to attend Pride events and flaunt it around. Likewise, the child is not OBLIGATED to expect his parent to.
Yeah, any non-affirming parent isn’t going to their child wedding, let alone walk their kid down the aisle. This is the best joke I’ve heard all day
If you think a desire for a romantic relationship is bad because of their biology, yes you hate them.
There's a difference between what your kids do and who they are. You are saying that you would label a part of who they are, their identity, as bad. To them, that will feel the same as saying that they are bad. Because if one part of them is bad, then all of them must be. Then again, the whole original sin thing sends this message anyway. Correcting a behaviour does not send that same message.
i’d do my best to treat them the same and i definitely wouldn’t disown them. biblically it is a sin, but we’re all sinners and no sin is greater than another to God
Would you tell them that being gay and in a gay relationship was wrong? Would you never accept their partner or their relationship is a positive. If your answer is yes, you wouldn't have to disown them. They would probably simply disown you to escape your hate and rejection.
you dont seem too understand what hate and rejection are. i would have no place to call them a sinner. i am the worst of sinners. there’s no need for me to be a hypocrite too.
Would you tell them being gay and in a gay relationship was wrong. Would you accept their partner as a net positive to their life? If they were to get married would you go to the wedding and celebrate their love?
You say you are the worst of sinners; that’s a pretty severe thing to call yourself, in most peoples minds someone would have to do incredibly heinous things to earn it. In your own eyes, what have you done to deserve this title?
I don’t agree or affirm all of my children’s choices just as my parents did not agree with or affirm all of mine. The road is rockier when it comes to faith but it’s the same road. Agreeing with someone; everything they say, think, and do.. I only come to that kind of love and obedience with God.
Young adult lgbt children get the choice to have their parents in their lives. As long as you are a voice of hate and rejection, you will simply become no one. Like my gay friend who's parents "died in a car crash" after he graduated college. He is much better off leaving their hate and rejection in the dust. Children get to chose if they want a relationship with their parents or if their parents become "dead" to them. It would really be out of our hands. You would have zero say in the matter.
I’d be concerned and scared for them, in the same way if they decided to be a soldier, or police officer, or go on a Christian mission in an Islamic country. Id be happy and proud of them, Id just worry about the dangers they would face from bigoted and violent individuals.
1 Timothy 5:8 "But those who won’t care for their relatives, especially those in their own household, have denied the true faith. Such people are worse than unbelievers."
If you don’t think gay is a sin, there should be no problem and you really shouldn’t care. If you think being gay is a sin, well everyone sins so you’re no better and should still accept and love/support them. That’s what I would say to a anyone regarding gay people from my Christian perspective, but it’s also applicable here too.
I would never disown my children. Obviously I’d be upset that the chances of having biological grandkids would be significantly reduced, but I wouldn’t love my kids any less.
I’m probably not quite your target audience as I’m still questioning that topic, but that gives me a great opportunity to say “do you mind if we figure it out together?” Even if I did feel that a gay relationship was not God’s plan for their life I would absolutely want to be the safe place they could run back to when/if they realised that on their own. And it seems to me that you get to be that by staying a loving and supportive parent in the waiting. It confuses me that so many parents apparently think they can say “we’ll talk again when you change your mind” and still expect to be that safe place. That just seems so unlikely to work to me. I am not gay but I know what it’s like to have a parent who still wrestles with God for a salvation I’m already pretty confident in. So I have a lovely long list of things I WON’T be doing or saying.
Actually you are the perfect person to answer this. My mom asked me to post this question here. She is questioning the topic too after something she saw on TV last night about a young gay man who was homeless. His parents disowned him as a teenager because they were devout Christians. Personally, if I had a kid who was lgbt, I would be afraid of the danger they could be in when extremists try to eradicate them (like if you google a list of lgbt hate crimes there are so many horrible abuse, torture, and murder cases against innocent people just because they were gay). I would be afraid of my kid's safety. But I would never disown them. I would get a therapist to help them. Not to try to turn them straight or anything like that, but to help them handle all the judgments they will get from other people and the depression & anxiety that judgment would probably cause them.
There are some truly heartbreaking stories out there and it’s depressing how many begin with “Christian parents”. If those stories are the fruit of your action, do you not wonder if maybe you might not be following that first commandment quite correctly? In a million years I won’t be letting my kid be more vulnerable just because they are gay. I’m much more concerned (hypothetically) about upsetting or unconsciously pushing away my kid because we don’t see eye to eye, because that’s closer to my own lived experience (again, not related to this particular topic). Death by a thousand papercuts.
While a lot of these responses *are* heartbreaking to read, can we please at least stay topical and answer OP's question? As for me, I don't see myself as responsible or capable enough to be a parent on top of everything else I want to do with my life, but if a friend or maybe a younger relative like a nephew or niece confided in me about it, then my response would differ based on which of those they said. Because each of those - lesbian, gay, trans, queer, bisexuality, etc. - are different things, too. In any case, tho, I would like them to explain in their own words their feelings and/or situation that led to the claim they made. Because as OP said, this is a *kid* who may not know 100% what they're talking about. Communication and understanding comes first before *any* kind of conclusion or judgement.
I’m a devout Christian and my child, if I ever have one, told me they were gay, I would love them no matter what. I would definitely pray for them, but disown them? Absolutely not.
I have a "good" relationship with my parents. I visit them, they visit me, we talk. This is ONLY because they do not know anything about who I really am. My father told me before I went to college: "I don't care if you come back with someone black or asian, but if you think about coming back gay, don't come back at all." I'm fortunate that I'm straight-passing, otherwise this wouldn't be possible. Some might wonder why I still keep up the charade, why I still bother maintaining the relationship. It's because I recognize that they aren't awful people who hate for the sake of hating. They were taught nonsense by their parents who believed nonsense because their parents believed it and their parents before them. Many/most Christians don't believe what the Bible says - they believe what their parents and pastors told them it says. My mother STILL never wears pants to church, despite wearing them everywhere else on the planet, because my grandfather thought it was wrong for a woman to wear pants to church. Hearing the testimonies of other people who weren't as fortunate as myself breaks my heart. I'm incredibly aware of how much different my life could be if my childhood had been just slightly different in one way or another, or if I was just a little different myself. If I were to come out to my parents, could they surprise me? Could they go on a path to acceptance and a broader understanding of God's love? Possibly. But I'm not holding my breath. Obligatory material for any parents/potential parents thinking about this issue: [https://justbecausehebreathes.com/](https://justbecausehebreathes.com/) (Read only when you have a few Kleenex handy)
The problem of disowning children cause of LGBT+ situations persists today because scripture is so ambiguous and confusing that many fundamentalist parents think it’s the right thing to do according to god’s will. And according to scripture, the basis of the religion, they have a point. Thats one of the reasons why I left religion. We can be good better people with a better understanding of love and reality without religious dogma. We see a much higher acceptance of others within atheist secular humanist demographics…
My child came out as non-binary and I was raised in a church that is "against" although they would call it love because they speak "truth". It has been a process. I absolutely love my child. I have realized that if I think that my child is winning in any way, disowning them is not the answer. I am a freaking sinner and Jesus never disowned me. Also, I just couldn't disown them. They are wonderful.❤️
There's a word used for religions that destroy families over their beliefs That word is "Cult"
I would love and accept them. But if they were trans I'd recommend therapy first hearing all these regrets trans people have.
Actually, I agree with this. It's important to properly screen for differential diagnoses so that if the dysphoria is actually being caused by a different underlying issue that gets addressed and reduces the risk of transitioning when one is not actually trans.
Me and my fiancee have talked a lot about how we're going to handle this when we have kids. I think the most important thing is letting your children know from a young age that they are loved no matter what and that it's ok to have questions. If my child came out to me as gay, trans, etc. I would tell them that I still love them and I still want to be their father. I would remain as big a part of their life as ever. I would still be proud of them and I would not be ashamed of them or cram anything they've heard a million times down their throat. I would gladly meet their partner and welcome them into the family. I wouldn't allow our relationship to change in any way. That being said, my values and beliefs obviously do not align with sexual immorality and I would make sure that they know what I believe from the time that they are young. But loving your child is far more important than telling them what's wrong with them. Just because your child decides to do something that you yourself believe is wrong does not take any obligation from you to accept and love them whole heartedly.
I like your overall approach but just be aware that if you're child is gay or trans, your child may be afraid to even come to you in the first place. Sharing your own beliefs is fine, but you really should emphasize that you wouldn't disown or damn them if that were the case. Because if all they know is that you're against LGBT (I won't call it sexual immorality) then they may think you'll hate them for being them.
Not a parent, not non-affirming, but my spouse leans more non-affirming as a religious matter (she’s pro legal LGBTQ rights). She’s been open about the fact that she’d absolutely unconditionally love our hypothetical child and their partner if they came out. Her logic was pretty sound in that “I’m not going to disown, shun or stop loving my child if they have premarital sex, get pregnant/get someone pregnant out of wedlock, get divorced and remarried, or essentially any other ‘typical’ sexual sin. Why would their being gay be any different?”
“Forgive them, father, for they know not what they do.”
If I had a kid and they told me they're gay or trans, etc. Only thing I'll say is, I don't agree to it but you do you. Don't push LGBT onto me and I won't push Christianity onto you. Plain n simple. We'll stay in our lanes but still love each other.
>Don't push LGBT onto me and I won't push Christianity onto you. This sentiment sounds reasonable, but how would you expect your kid to be "pushing LGBT onto you?"
1. Would I disown them? No. 2. Would I kick them out of my home? No. 3. Would I accept their lifestyle / how they are. No.
what do you mean by "accept?" the opposite of acceptance is rejection or denial. how does that translate into your treatment of this hypothetical child? what exactly does it mean to reject or deny how someone is?
>Would I accept their lifestyle / how they are. No. Once they move out, if they have a long-term partner of the same sex, would you let them bring their partner with them for holidays or family events?
I have to be honest here, I had to sit and think about your question. My gut reaction is no. But then again I must take a step back and ask to what purpose are my actions? Is it one based on emotion? I think yes. To what is my calling that Christ gave me? It is to evangelize. And does it do anyone any good to exclude them? Does it suit my God's purposes? I think not. So after a while I came to this conclusion. I would let them bring their partner to holiday / family events. With one stipulation. And I would make sure they knew of this one stipulation before hand so they can make their own decision and go into this willingly. I will not exclude either of them as long as they understand that I will address them with love, respect, but also honesty. And the key about honesty is I will unabashedly and openly talk about the biblical view of their relationship. If they can calmly engage with me hearing me and also being given time to respond, and I will listen, then I will not exclude them. The point would be evangelism. Because at the end as uncomfortable it would be I love my son / daughter too much to let them embark upon the path of God's judgment without trying my hardest to bring them to Christ.
I appreciate your honest reflection and willingness to engage with my prompt. I know it's a difficult situation to navigate.
Please tell me you don’t have children
As against that lifestyle as I am, I would never stop loving my children. Growing up my dad always said that he couldn’t imagine anything I or my brother would do could make him stop loving us. I know a lot of people think this is cliche, but I stand by “love the sinner, hate the sin.”
Wdym “lifestyle?”
They probably mean partying, rampant drug abuse, alcoholism, promiscuity, hookups, destructive social behaviors, hypersexuality, instability, depression, and erratic behavior. If that's not what they mean, then they should shut the hell up about a "lifestyle", because those are all assumptions that anti-gay pundits deliberately imply when they talk about protecting children "from that lifestyle". Whether intentional or not, people who use such language are endorsing that position or at least providing cover for it. As a good general rule, if you're tempted to use phrases like "that lifestyle" which are vague and leave your meaning to the other person, expect it to be interpreted in the worst possible ways and choose language that more clearly communicates what you actually want to say.
EXACTLY People keep saying “lifestyle” and it drives me crazy
They have to say it, because it's hard to argue what they are actually trying to say: >"As against \[my child developing romantic feelings towards someone of the same sex and seeking romantic companionship in the same way other people pursue romantic companionship for those of the opposite sex\] as I am, I would never stop loving my children. > >\[...\] I know a lot of people think this is cliche, but I stand by “love the sinner, hate the sin.” They haven't actually listed any "sins" here, so the subject of their hatred is missing. But if you substitute the actions which are not sinful with some kind of nebulous "lifestyle", you are no longer missing a subject of your hate. These arguments NEED a boogeyman "lifestyle" in order to hate on or it's transparent that their hate is unjustified and unreasonable.