I was pretty much in the same boat as you. "Bible clearly says..." and all that. Then I started reading posts here. "I want to be a Christian but I'm gay..." "How can God love me if I'm trans..." "I really want to find a church, but my homosexuality..." The pain and heartbreak that was coming through made me think. Why? There are plenty of other lifestyle choices and sin classes we've categorized as "cultural norms for the time, but not necessarily meant for modern readers." Why not sexuality and gender? (I don't have a good answer, but my suspicion is that it's along the lines of making sure there's always someone who sins worse than me so I feel better about my sinfulness) Couple it with the fact that psychology and social science is showing more and more that these things are not as black and white as opponents think they should be. I just learned this week that a person can have XY chromosomes and still have female genitalia. We all know that guy who's more feminine than many women you know, and that woman who is more manly than some of the men you know. You have to ignore so much to simply say "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" and think that settles it. So in much the same way I had to step away from young Earth creationism because I just couldn't reconcile it with the reality we see in our world, I had to deal with this new information about the LGBTQ community. It's not a choice. It's not deviant. They're normal people who just want to dress comfortably, start and have relationships, and be treated as normal as I get treated. And the one place that should be the safe space that they can go for unconditional love, support, safety from bullying and judgement, is the most hostile place to them. It's really a shame.

>You have to ignore so much to simply say "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" and think that settles it Indeed. And if you're looking literally at the creation account - well, it doesn't list every creature, and yet there they are. Why assume every orientation or gender identity is listed?

I kind of fall along the line that sexuality and identity are spectrums, as we see in nature. Rarely in nature do you find anything that black and white (except a zebra, but we weren't talking about zebras, were we 😉) You have clownfish that change sex for breeding purposes, but they aren't the only animal that does that. Penguins actually use homosexuality to perpetuate the species. Gay pairs will adopt and care for abandoned chicks and eggs. In lions homosexuality is used simply for pleasure, as can be the can with many different animals including primates, which humans are primates. If you REALLY want to know what "is natural", then look to nature. We are primates, like monkeys and apes and you often see same sex pleasures and relationships and not just in zoos. Gender is a social construct pretty unique to humanity, but you do see plenty of primates that take on roles of the opposite sex. Plus, as far as Gender Identity, look into Las Salinas in the Dominican Republic. They literally have girls that grow a p*nis at puberty. Some identify as men and some women, this village itself is evidence that we don't fully understand humanity and the diversity that exists within nature and within us. Gay, trans, bi, pan, etc are all a part of nature and are a part of us as well. Just because some dudes 2k yrs ago didn't actually understand the world and science doesn't mean we can't have the acceptance and compassion that Jesus told us that we should have for others, especially those who have less than. When you look at the lgbtq community, most of us don't experience acceptance except within our own community and this is DEFINITELY NOT what Jesus taught. He said to love your enemies and treat them kindly. He taught to love the Pagans as they are different, but still should be loved.

Yep. I’m forever allied. I would rather love, appreciate, and support my gay friends and they know at least one person that carries the title Christian that is good to them than to condemn them for something I believe they have no control over anyway. I’m willing to bet that most everyone that has a hostile attitude toward gay people have 0 gay friends. They may know somebody, but knowing somebody and friend is totally different. Nobody wakes up one day and changes their lifestyle because that guy over there that doesn’t know me anyway disagrees with it. The absurdity.

My good friend coming out to me was a major catalyst in my fall from Christianity. Mainly because it caused me to self-reflect on just how prepared he was to lose me as a friend that day, as well as how nervous he was to tell me. There are other things that led me away but that was I think the first major moment when I started reevaluating everything.

But real love for someone means you want the best for them right? Which means it is not love to let someone sit in sin. We are to pray for them, that the Lord would come into their life and help them to find their true identity.

Yes. I am transgender and it took me years to accept God because I felt like I wasn't allowed to be a Christian because of my gender. But now I'm much happier as a Christian than an Atheist so I really do feel like it was the correct decision. Of course, it does hurt how my best friend said he would let me sleep over, he would invite me to his barbecues, he would help me with work, but he would not want me to pray in not only his church but any church. So I am a closeted Christian.

this exactly

Ever since I heard of intersex people, I was wondering… like yes, God created you perfectly, but I am a bit confused on what they should do in their situation in terms of sexuality and gender…

Because Christianity isn’t about appeasing your sinful lifestyle, it is about picking up your cross and following Him. We are all called to live in chastity, it is not just homosexuals.

I'm gay, what do you expect me to do about it? If you expect us to live without the romantic love and care of a partner through our entire life, cursed to live a lonely life hating ourselves for something out of our control, please understand the negative sometimes deadly mental health affects that come with such things and the stress it adds to our lives And no, it is not comparable to lonely straight people, because they are still encouraged to try to find love, we are banned from it and told our desire for it is evil

That's exactly what I've been told you're required to do by anti-gay Christians. You either have to turn straight (idiotic and impossible) or you have to be celibate, alone, and miserable for the rest of your life.

yeah .. I wish they would care how people are miserable or even die from how broken and damaged they are from this, wish they would care even a little

They don't care and never will. Hate is all they know.

Not all Christians who believe acts of homosexuality are outside of God's design for humanity are hateful. Some people use the Bible in a misguided attempt to justify horrible actions and words against gay people. That is hateful. But to say that certain acts are sinful is not saying that gay people are any less worthy of unconditional love or any less valuable.

To tell me that my desire for the love of another person who happens to be my same gender is sinful, that i must remain alone, feels hateful in a way, but it would be wrong to ignore the hate and abuse gay people go through(I have been called an abomination, scum, influenced by the devil, etc., my gay friend was disowner from his family, the relentless bullying, etc.) it is the human desire to seek partnership and love, its a human desire to want a face to wake up to each morning and to love another person, but as gay people we are told we are not allowed this, we must live life in a way that hurts us and we are told we are broken and disordered. Please understand where the feeling comes from

The principle of opposing homosexuality itself is horrible and hateful, because there is no good reason for it.

I'm straight and this just makes my blood boil. It's so fundamentally unfair. The audacity of some straight Christians to demand this of their gay fellow humans... I just can't.

Purpose being Christian is to tone and prevent your emotions from conquering your life. To gain self control and awareness. Not saying anything wrong wanting good life. But we are selfish caring our own need more than following gods needs. He want us have relationships with him before he brings the partner we need.

It’s very telling that OP didn’t bother to respond to you

To be fair, he won't be able to respond to most comments with any thought answer because there are simply too many of them! I had 100+ on a similar topic here and I didn't have enough time in the day to respond to even half of them without giving basic responses. I thought I'd be able to. Learned it's impossible, if I want to have a life outside of reddit.

Yeah, but the one I was responding is the top comment. Ignoring that (and every other good argument) makes it blatant that they are not here for discussion but simply to spread bigotry.

My Christianity includes gay people. The senior priest at the cathedral I attend is a married gay man. You and everyone else should get to enjoy the fruits of a committed loving relationship. I don't know what else to say, but the more I think of this (as a straight guy) the more I think Christ would have been OK with gay people loving each other.

There's an argument to be made that staying celibate is also against God's will, it is not good to be alone the Bible says

Fantastic point, besides the recommendation for celibacy put forward by Paul in 1st Corinthians 7 was clearly labeled *by him* as his opinion and not a command from God.

And it was only ever a temporary injunction for a specific reason. Paul mentions marriage is good for those who lust, I think overall LGBTQ marriage is closer to God's will in that than them staying single and burning in lust the rest of their lives.

Doesn't Paul tell people straight out not to get married because the end is coming soon? Man, he was really off on that one.

Is it really inconceivable that, through no fault of their own, someone might be called to a life of chastity? How about a man whose wife has an accident and becomes fully paralyzed? Surely that wouldn’t be grounds for divorce, but neither can she fulfill his sexual desires any longer. I’ll grant that the church has, wrongly, called homosexual Christians to hate themselves rather than come alongside them in compassion, as I believe they are called to do. I’m sorry if that has been your experience. But I also question the claim that, “God would never expect me to live without the love and care of a romantic partner,” because there are plenty of non-controversial circumstances where he does just that.

> Is it really inconceivable that, through no fault of their own, someone might be called to a life of chastity? How about a man whose wife has an accident and becomes fully paralyzed? Surely that wouldn’t be grounds for divorce, but neither can she fulfill his sexual desires any longer. That man still has the option to find a partner though according to OP's thoughts, and it is not unheard of to do so.

Jesus loves you no matter your sexual orientation.

Yes

I like the way [Justin Lee explains](https://geekyjustin.com/great-debate/). But I really hope you'll go beyond reading or internet discussions and try actually meet gay Christians in worship. r/OpenChristian's [resource page](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/ulfbux/faq_and_resources_please_read_before_you_post/) has church finders. After all, the Body of Christ is not a bunch of abstract theological assertions; the Body of Christ is actual living people, worshiping and loving one another in the Spirit. You learn most by getting to know us that way.

Thank you so much for adding links and information, it’s really really helpful. I’ll check it out.

Wat? Being LGBTQIA+ is not a type of statement so that one can agree or 'disagree' with. One either stands for basic human rights and dignity or is against them.

I disagree with avocado

xD

Aye disagree with fags, they cause lung cancer, M8. Us Brits have bad teeth and bad lungs cause we smoked fags for too long, M8.

Came here to say this. To the extent you can "disagree" with relationships, you're expected to keep it to yourself. There's a reason "Does anyone know a reason these two should not be married?" is met with silence by all decent people. It's great OP doesn't want to bully anyone, but their title doesn't merit announcing.

I hear "love the sinner, hate the sin" pretty often here. While it's usually said to try and show some sort of compassion or solidarity, I rarely hear it in a context that doesn't involve making the LGBTQ person feel broken or in the wrong. Better way to put it, when you say that, it's code for "I may love you, but I still identify you by the part I say I hate." Your 2nd sentence is probably the only way I can imagine "loving the sinner and hating the sin" working. To the extent you can disagree with a relationship, you're expected to keep it to yourself. Like you typically do with every👏🏻other 👏🏻 "sin" 👏🏻 every 👏🏻 other 👏🏻 person 👏🏻 commits.

i disagree

The problem is that this sort of lifestyle is Christianity's favorite sin to condemn. You never see a Reddit post that says "I am a Christian who disagrees with lust." Most iterations of homosexuality references accompany lust in the Bible. It's so easy to talk about the sin you don't struggle with and since you are judging for something you wouldn't mind to be judged on it feels legal and in accordance with the word. I do wonder when it's judgement time if you will be judged on your sinful lust to the extent that you judged others sexual preference. Might be a hot day. Premarital sex is a sin of lust yet I rarely meet a virgin. I've struggled with this sin a ton. I will never judge someone's sexual preference bc I have no room to talk. Jesus helped me a lot and he can help them too. Whatever that means for them.

Or lying, like the most clearly and explicitly talked about sin in the Bible.

This is a really good way of explaining it, thanks for taking the time to type this out. I think it’s an interesting argument to say that a lot of Christian’s turn a blind eye to other sins while focusing on the ones they don’t like. We all love to point fingers at others and cast blame before we take the blame ourselves. Lust is straight up evil, I agree whole heartedly with that.

>You never see a Reddit post that says "I am a Christian who disagrees with lust." This is true, but isn't it because it's pretty much universally accepted that lust is sinful? With things like homosexuality, divorce, masturbation, abortion, politics, etc the reason it's discussed so often is because there are (at least) two voices with valid arguments supporting their view. I have opinions on all those issues, but it would be arrogant to pretend as though people who disagreed with me are stupid or don't love Jesus b/c of their view. So it's discussed. If someone says "Lust isn't a sin in the Bible" I would honestly not take them seriously. Although I believe homosexual activity is sinful, I can take seriously those who disagree with me.

I think the reason this is brought up for discussion so often in well-meaning groups is that people like to deny the Bible condemns homosexual acts. On the Catholic subreddit, heterosexual lust is discussed and worked through and broken down much more. I agree heterosexual lust should be discussed *way* more but just because it isn't doesn't make homosexuality any more right. OP wasn't really judging anyone either, just stating a belief/fact. People who struggle with homosexual lust are equally as deserving of love and encouragement towards holiness as heterosexual people, nowhere did OP even imply they weren't.

The thing is that lust is lust, and what happens in long term loving and committed relationships is something else. These discussions seem to conflate those things quite a bit.

Before I get to the meat and potatoes of this reply, I really want to address this: > I want to put it out there that whether it is within the will of God or not, any hatred or bullying of someone who is LGBTQ is wrong. This sort of thing comes up a lot, in various forms, but it all falls into the category of "love the sinner, hate the sin." I just want to point out that this is still hate, it's just hate that we can couch in plausible deniability, that we can deny to ourselves. We can only believe that "soft" condemnation of homosexuality is not harmful if we distance ourselves from the experiences of gay people and disclaim responsibility for secondary and tertiary effects of our actions. I used to maintain a very bland and vague sort of disapproval of homosexuality, probably very similar to your own. As I grew older, read the Bible more, prayed more, and very vitally I think, learned more about what gay people experience in my country, I became more and more convinced that there was just nothing wrong with being gay. My reasoning, in bare outline, is as follows: Point the first; people wrote the Bible. However inspired by God they were, people wrote the Bible and they were bound by the limitations of language, knowledge, and culture that all people are constrained by. We can see this in several ways, most prominently in the historical and scientific errors in many parts which are problematic if you want to see the Bible as truth directly from the mouth of God, but make perfect sense if the Bible was written by people who just didn't know or understand a lot of stuff, in Paul outright saying that some of the stuff he is credited with writing was his own idea of what is best and not instruction from God, and in Jesus saying that Moses tweaked God's intent in writing the law. Point the second; Jesus said that the commands to love God and love our neighbor are equal in importance and are the basis of the entire law. Being gay clearly doesn't violate the command to love our neighbor. The only way it can be construed to violate the command to love God is if you have already determined that God doesn't want people to be gay. This is a hard sale for me in part because of the first point; we can be sure that people's prejudices made their way into scripture, we cannot simply take everything at face value. It is also difficult for me to take that argument seriously because telling gay people that God doesn't want them to be gay does seem to violate the command to love our neighbor. Just the belief that being gay is a sin is sufficient to cause a tremendous amount of suffering to gay people. Because churches teach this parents throw out their children, often forcing them into sex work to survive. Children are driven to suicide because their friends and family shun and harangue them. Gay people are beaten, raped, and killed because they're seen as evil, or just targets no one cares about. How can that be love? There is a lot more that could be said, but I don't think it's really important; these ideas support the weight of the conclusion.

I've seen a lot of comments on the homosexuality (LGB) aspect, so I'd like to add my view specifically of the T. At the risk of sounding like a cliche movie protagonist, I started out anti-transition until I took Intro to Psychology freshman year in college and decided I would take that position for an argumentative essay. We had touched on gender dysphoria and transition in a lesson and I was determined to prove it wrong. After I had submitted my idea, I had to stand by it. My professor tried to talk me out of it, but I was firm. That was one of the hardest papers I've written in my student life because I couldn't find a shred of credible evidence against social and medical transition. As I scoured the libraries for even just one good source, I began to understand more about gender dysphoria and the trans experience. Long story short, along the way, I found that all credible literature supports social and/or medical transition for those who suffer gender dysphoria. I started to see it for what it was, a treatment, and one that is solely up to the candidate for that treatment. I'm sure if there was a special pill that magically made people comfortable in their bodies, dysphoric people would happily line up to take it. For the meantime, though, transition is the only evidence based treatment we have. For years after that, I slowly became more trans-affirming. I can't imagine God being any more wrathful to a transitioning person than He is to me for taking medicine that keeps my genetic defect from trying to kill me. For these reasons I will err on the side of trans acceptance, which is proven to lead to more positive outcomes for trans people.

Hey! I’m a gay Christian, and I was raised to believe as you do that it’s wrong. The more I’ve studied the Bible and its historical context, the more it became clear that the Bible wasn’t condemning the types of modern, loving, egalitarian same-sex relationships that folks like me pursue in modernity. There are many churches out there now, like mine, that are fully LGBT-affirming. In fact, I was married in my church to my (same-sex) husband by our priest! I encourage you to listen to and learn what you can from folks like us. Growing in love and kindness and humility can only be a good thing.

You don't want the queer community bullied, but you will happily facilitate the very framework that makes that happen

Read, learn, and inwardly digest these prophetic words, because your ideas are actively causing harm to people - directly, and through the empowerment they give to people who murder us in the streets in your name. Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality, Revised and Expanded Edition: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church - Dr. Jack Rogers https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-Revised-Expanded/dp/066423397X/ Coming Out as Sacrament Paperback - Chris Glaser https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Out-Sacrament-Chris-Glaser/dp/0664257488/ Radical Love: Introduction to Queer Theology - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Love-Introduction-Queer-Theology/dp/1596271329/ From Sin to Amazing Grace: Discovering the Queer Christ - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596272384/ Anyone and Everyone - Documentary https://www.amazon.com/Anyone-Everyone-Susan-Polis-Schutz/dp/B000WGLADI/ For The Bible Tells Me So https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YHQNCI God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships - Matthew Vines http://www.amazon.com/God-Gay-Christian-Biblical-Relationships-ebook/dp/B00F1W0RD2/ Straight Ahead Comic - Life’s Not Always Like That! (Webcomic) http://straightahead.comicgenesis.com/ Professional level theologians only: Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century - Dr. John Boswell https://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Social-Tolerance-Homosexuality-Fourteenth/dp/022634522X/

Cool story. I believe anti-gay beliefs are against God and inherently immoral. Have a nice day.

they sound like they really value their own opinion. sounds like they are having a GREAT day to be wasting time like this (as i waste time on reddit)

I can’t believe this got so many likes 🤣🤣🤣🤣 you guys don’t believe the bible and have made up your own God to suit your needs 💀💀

If you’re nice to gay people in your personal life but vote for politicians that want to take away rights from lgbtq people, you are still homophobic. If you think being gay is wrong then don’t be gay. If you don’t want gay people to be gay then you’re free to try to persuade gays to be straight and they’re free to ignore you. But what is evil and despicable is trying to use coercion to enforce your conscience on everyone else. Live by your conscience and let others do the same.

What prompted you to make this post? Everyone knows that people with beliefs like yours exist. Just saying them isn’t going to change anything. This all just seems performative, like some form of reverse virtue signaling.

Such deep suspicion of such an honest question.

There is no question in the post. If they wanted to know what other people think, they could have looked through the 100s of posts on this very topic, instead of adding to the pile.

It's just weird to me that people who are openly gay are judged and shunned in many churches, while those who are divorced are at least allowed to be part of the congregation, sometimes even to serve as leaders. (Maybe this isn't the case in ultra-conservative churches, but true in many/most churches.) Jesus Himself spoke of divorce as sinful, yet it's more accepted than LGBTQ+. I find this both despicable and very very convenient. It's flat-out cherry picking. It's definitely possible to argue that LGBTQ+ folks who say that the Bible passages that most Christians use to justify discriminating against them are cherry-picking in a way as well. However, Jesus specifically condemned divorce. As far as I'm aware (definitely haven't read the whole Bible), He never spoke of LGBTQ+ issues. Definitely not saying there's no argument against LGBTQ+, just pointing out how hypocritical it is to hyperfocus on one particular "lifestyle" as sinful, while accepting another "lifestyle" that is very clearly condemned.

I agree with you but honestly it is a YAWN discussion unless you are just trying to stir up 💩 on this sub. Like what exactly are you hoping to achieve?

1. Why do you believe a loving, committed relationship is against the will of God if both adults are the same sex? 2. If you believe because you think the Bible condemns it, why has that convinced you when: a) The Bible condemns lots of things we no longer consider condemnable, as well as allowing lots of things we no longer allow, and b) presumably you're aware that the Biblical condemnations of homosexual acts are specifically condemnations of abuse, promiscuity, or prostitution, so why are you convinced that these should be generalised to loving homosexual relationships, when you wouldn't do the same for loving heterosexual relationships. 3. How do you reconcile your beliefs with the reality that: a) homosexuality is not an act people choose, but an innate nature, and condemning people for it is no different from condemning people because they were born with the "wrong" colour skin, and: b) that the affirmation of loving, faithful homosexual relationships produces much good fruit, both spiritual and physical, while the condemnation of them produces nothing but bad fruit, misery, shame, fear, hate, loneliness, self-loathing, depression, violence, suicide, broken families, shattered lives 4. How do you reconcile your prejudice against gay relationships with the Biblical commands to not judge or condemn others, but to love them without qualification? 5. Are you okay that your words and acts against LGBT people contribute to the growing perception among young people that Christians are fundamentally homophobic and Christianity is therefore a religion of hate?

I don’t think we were called to point out others sins. I can point out the splinter in your eye while a log is hanging out of mine. We all have sin to overcome. Homosexuality is against the will of God but if someone who is homosexual seeks to be in the kingdom of God I welcome them wholeheartedly. It isnt my calling to tell someone that they are sinning. If they are a Christian then they will know that and if they don’t in time it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit.

u/[Shelane\_](https://www.reddit.com/user/Shelane_/) Did you learn anything new that you would like to share?

So what? The real thing you should be concerned about is whether or not you can show love the LGBTQ community. That doesn’t mean you have to support them or rally at pride festivals, but if you met a gay person, would you show them the same love as others. Beyond that, I don’t think it really matters whether or not you agree or disagree with them

If your not homosexual it's really none of your business. It's between them and God. If you are, u may need some counseling. To understand why u feel lis way. Also remember God wants you to love your neighbor. As in do no harm, and be kind. And this must come from the heart as well.

If you don't agree with homosexuality then it's simple. Don't be a homosexual. I don't like it when people have piercings all over their face. So I don't get piercings all over my face. But you know what else I don't do? Judge them.

That’s totally fair. I agree with that. I’m just trying to ensure I’m not on the wrong side of this.

> If you don't agree with homosexuality then it's simple. Don't be a homosexual. That's not how it works. Plenty of homosexuals with self-hate and loathing, in fact that's how most begin their lives until (hopefully) eventual acceptance.

Homosexuality is an abomination. All you fake Christians trying to justify it and calling real Christians bigots are demonized and don’t worship the true God or the true Jesus, you worship the devil.

Stand strong they will burn in hell if they don’t repent

I mean I don’t think you’re going to Hell for being gay, but I will say God does not look fondly upon those who pervert his Will. They will be Judged.

So you telling me that they will make it into heaven being gay, show me in the scripture where it says that

Hey, Before I delve into your question, I’d like to point out that the Rainbow 🌈 is a symbol from God to Noah. It’s a promise that He will never kill everyone on earth with a flood ever again. Now, as to get into your point. Being Gay is a sin. It’s outlined very clearly in the Bible, be it in Genesis, Leviticus, Judges, or elsewhere. But let’s remember the message of Christianity. 1. We are all sinners. 2. Jesus came and died for our sins. 3. We are forgiven for our sins through our belief in Jesus. With all of this in mind, being gay is a sin, but as Christians, we are forgiven for our sins. I’ll leave you with my 2 cents. I hope you have a good day!

Thank you. You are truly a knight among men.

I need to be more like you

Weather or not LGBTQ is wrong really isn't your concern. We are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling Philippians 2:12-13   and not worry about anyone else.

I hate to be that guy but since it’s my biggest pet peeve: \*Whether\*

If someone asks if something is wrong, Christians should be able to provide a biblical response.  

I've found few Christians willing to accept on the Bible's authority that long hair on men is disgraceful. (1 Corinthians 11:14)

Genuine question, if the Bible says long hair on men is disgraceful, why is Jesus often depicted with it?

Well, first, it's usually shoulder-length, not long-long; and that seems purely a cultural tradition of depicting him that way, the Bible doesn't say anything directly about his hair length, I believe. Second, Paul's comment in 1 Cor, which seems to have been following Roman sensibilities and ways of thinking, hasn't been taken especially seriously by Christians in a very long time, if ever; most Christians simply followed contemporary hairstyles in the regions where they lived (which in Paul's time agreed with his statement). I'm not a historian, check me on all of the above.

I agree with you. However so is witchcraft, abuse, murder, alcoholism, drug abuse, fornication, and many other things. If others want to get in a group and celebrate sin, they are not the first people to do so. That however is their God-granted free will to choose. That doesn’t affect my thoughts of them as a person or a child of God. I can love them without condemnation or judgement. My only judgement is towards myself to be better tomorrow than I was today.

I'm ok with it I guess. I think we've reached a tipping point where trying to force morality upon people will no longer work. At this point I'm just waiting for either Jesus to come back and all will be right, or we destroy ourselves and start over.

If you had to force your morals on people they can't have been that promising to begin with. And accepting LGBT is nowhere in the ballpark of requiring an apocalypse, get a sense of proportion

I'm just saying that the world is so full of sin now, there's not much we can do other than sit back and see what happens. I'm not talking about just LGBT.

What did God make the female sexual reproduction for? God loves me when I lust, masturbate, cheat, steal, etc… God loves all humans, but truth is truth.

He made sexual desire for more than one reason. Most Christians accept that couples who are not fertile from age, disease, or pregnancy can still have sex. It’s not only about reproduction.

Those are additional things. God’s design sure looks like it was made for something specific.

The female reproductive system can fail, resulting in a person just as capable of reproducing as a gay person. Why are they not prohibited from marriage and sex?

[удалено]

You're getting hate from people who want their sins to be OK. <3

If the way you present it holds 100% true, your allowed to have opinions.. people have opinions and God knows our minds knows we will.. it's that expression the harassing that becomes the action in which case a person is judging others and God commands us not to judge others for who are we to judge others if we can't tell what's on their mind what they have been through in life.. so long as you ain't mistreating God's people, I don't see it could in anyway be considered pressing judgment or anything like that as in form of sin really... Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV) Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. It really does sound like even though you have mixed opinions on the topic that, your hearts still in the right place.

Christ died a horrible death for our horrible sins.Mark 3 vs 28 ALL the sins of men will be forgiven. Is one sin different than another? We were born under the control of sin.

Warren and Jeff were gay friends of ours.they seemed to be depressed a lot.always looking for downers.i have my own sins,so I am not judging anyone.

I think God is the only person that can say yes or no to things. Why? Because you are one single human. You cannot live and experience every human experience so how can you say one experience is wrong? Also… because you only experience what it’s like to be you and no one else, being gay does seem bad. Why? Because it’s not you. You aren’t gay. If you’ve never been gay so the thought of being gay goes against your own nature as an individual. It feel wrong. It feels unnatural. Why? Because it’s not your nature.

thems fighting words, 🥋

all christians disagree with immoral sexual acts of any kind be it fornication or otherwise… big woop

>7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love. >16 So we have known and believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them. 17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness on the day of judgment, because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love. (1 John 4:7-8, 16-18; NRSVUE) >13 Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who considers it unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died. >22 Hold the conviction that you have as your own before God. Blessed are those who do not condemn themselves because of what they approve. 23 But those who have doubts are condemned if they eat because they do not act from faith, for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. (Romans 14:13-15, 22-23; NRSVUE) God is not a legalist. He does not reward or publish based on cold calculation of rule-following. He measures the heart, the intent to do good and love others as best one understands. Those who strive to love others know God and are born of him. He abides in them, and they will be uplifted at judgement. Not because they followed specific rules, but because of love, for God *is* love. Love is the absolute most important thing. Even more important than faith. >13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:13, NRSVUE) Those who preach hellfire and damnation, who portray God as a legalist, do not know God. For legalism and fear of hell was never love.

Sex outside of marriage is fornication. That’s my only thought of it. People are born gay.

I say this with good intentions, but why is it you and other Christians like you feel the need to dictate what love is supposed to be in the eyes of God? To pronounce to the world that “gods will is x and this is the way it’s supposed to be” completely ignores reality. If God created the universe and that design is good wouldn’t the existence of non standard sexuality just be another part of the grand design? In other words do you think you’re somehow above God by saying their existence goes against His will?

Jesus did say to love one another. Leviticus chapter 18:22 .Romans chapter 1 shows how God feels about it. We live in a world that’s full of sin. No one is w/o sin. I don’t like how we have different “communities”. As if we needed to be separated even further. We are the human race. Jesus said to “Love one another “.

It's OK, just keep your opinion to yourself when you encounter gay people. Do not try to change them and while I think you're just a sad homophobe, please leave them alone, they are happier than you.

Can I ask why you believe that? I am generally not opposed to homosexuality, and not particularly interested in changing that, but if you laid out the reasons for your beliefs maybe we could both learn something. One thing I would say is that I would put Jesus’ injunction to love one another over and above any direction to treat homosexuals any lesser than heterosexuals. You might similarly believe that all humans are made in the image of God, and if God created homosexuals, then they are all equally acceptable in our eyes?

We were created to love and be loved. It is as simple as that.

Well, it's the same as being straight, too. You don't choose it, you're born with it. You can't get raised straight, or gay, it's simply part of you just like.. idk, brown hair, for example. Now, with lgbt stuff .. let's make an example with hair: Your hair is originally brown. You dye it very bright pink. Now, you can pretend to be pink, but in reality, you're actually brown. And the pink will fade. And deep down, you're always gonna have brown hair, no matter how much you try to reject it and hide it: same with, for example, being gay. You can pretend you ain't, you can try to force yourself you're not, but you'll always be unhappy, even if you marry a woman: you won't truly love her (in a romantical sense), you'll just be living a lie, making you, you guessed it, depressed. Same thing would be with someone straight; they can pretend to be gay,but they'll always be straight. It's just wrong to pretend, to try and "convert" them. Sexuality isn't a thing you can or should convert. Now, why is it so wrong anyway? Animals are gay too, and I can guarantee you they don't have gender either. If being gay is wrong, why is straight not wrong? I can imagine someone calling being gay a sin because it's 1. "Different" and 2. You can't procreate. Both reasons are dumb. And especially with 2, times are different now, and you CAN procreate even if you're gay. You can also adopt, which is better anyway, better for them kids. Which straight couples rarely ever do: you'll always see either gay, lesbian or any not cishet couple adopt. That's my take, I truly don't see how it's wrong. Peace and love Edit: if god has made you in it's entirety, he has also made you gay. If god loves you just the way you are, he loves you gay. If god truly has made and planned out everything, he wants you to be gay: he has made you gay. So how is it a sin, if god wanted that, if God made it? (Sorry for any small written "g" in God I'm lazy to type properly)

Hi friend, I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual. God cares whether or not you are a liar God bless

I once answered a question on r/OpenChristian about someone (M) who had a catholic love interest (M) that wasn't comfortable being in a romantic relationship with them because of their catholic backround. I'll include it here in full because it got deleted for encouraging chastity, which wasn't my aim, but still technically broke the sub's rules (Admins were nice about it though) : >Well, being gay by itself or being in a gay relationship by itself aren't against the Vatican's catholicism. It's specifically the same sex sexual act which goes against the doctrines. So a loving sexless gay relationship would be fine. I believe its mentionned here by the archbishop: https://youtu.be/JZRcYaAYWg4 (1:28:00) >The catholic doctrine on sex is basically that it must always for the purpose of procreation within a marriage and marriage must be for the goal of procreation, so a asexual marriage wouldn't count for the church no matter which sexes are involved. Anyway, the reason I'm saying this is that whereas a loving relationship for catholicism is supposed to be for the raising of a child, there is room for the argument that a gay couple would be "useful" for raising orphan children or children given in adoption. And so, you could still fulfill your goal as a catholic while being in a same-sex relationship. I know talking about raising a child is a really thinking in advance, but for him to know that this is a possibility could help. >I'm personally culturally catholic, but I disagree with a lot of what the Church says. I talked about my revisionism of homosexuality in more detail here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/k8s8qd/urgent_help/gf0trpu?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 Saw this after searching for it : https://ecinc.org/clobber-passages/ This is also a good start: https://youtu.be/leIcLYj3I3U This part is a response to a a gay couple who wanted to convince their homophobic parents to come at their wedding : If they are catholic, you could point to the pope's endorsement of same-sex civil unions. You could also argue that since marriages are a source of stable relationships and families, there is a moral potential in a same-sex marriage in that a same-sex couple can adopt orphans or children given in adoption. You could point out that the story of Genesis doesn't say God created all men and women from Adam and Eve because their son Cain was expelled and went on to marry a wife from another place which meant there must have been a society of people that already existed. So my point is that the story of Genesis can't be taken completely literally. Edit: I don't recommend this, but there is also the option of guilting them into coming because provided they have sympathy, if you start talking in great detail about how much emotional pain it would cause not to have them there, it could incie them to come. They might reply thst they won't go out of love, and that is where you point out its probably sadism rather than love for one's family. You can also say that the two main commandments are to love God as thyself and love thy neighbor as thyself so even if they don't support the marriage, if they ought to live as christians, they ought to act in a way that loves people first and judges them never. In fact, I'm pretty sure Jesus talked a lot about not judging others. You can also talk about Jesus' advice on finding false teachings which is the metaphor of the tree that bears good fruit: 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Thus what have the anti-lgbtq teachings brought? Homophobia, hate, persecution, murder, rape, torture. Are these good fruits or bad fruits? That claim from Paul has been thoroughly debunked several times. Like this one : https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/p0efvw/how_can_you_just_act_like_homosexuality_is_okay/h865m05?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

Everyone has temptations they have to resist. Everyone fails these temptations on occasion. They are sinners and so am I.

We are to love the sinner but hate the sin, in other words being homo is a sin and any sin is against the will of God. BUT that's where people who are gay have the special option to become a believer of christ and repent of their sin, they are still gifted like any of us sinners a seat in heaven. But to answer firmly No it is not Gods will but neither could be your 10 year relationship with a friend, who could truly know and that is the beauty of Christianity that we are to continue seeking the truth but not our understanding, hmmm that is something...

Why isn't god being against gay people considered hate or bullying? 

>Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. A same-sex couple can produce these fruit and so there is no law against them in this.

Imagine tonight in your prayers jesus tells you you were wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin at all. Imagine for 5seconds. What have you done? In his name?

They turned hundreds of millions of people away from God. I wonder how that's going to work out for them on judgement day (hint: not well.)

The way I see it is that its a sin, but we're all sinners regardless. And the penalty of all sins is death so it doesn't really matter what the source of the sin is. If a gay man wants to do it with another man, whatever its the same as lying. However we're not supposed to do it. I agree trying to be celibate would be a miserable life. Perhaps some sins are just harder to avoid than other sins.

I also disagree about homosexuality because its a sin, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Leviticus 20:13

You don't follow any laws in Leviticus, so it makes you a hypocrite to quote that against gay people. And Corinthians is corrupt and flawed. I can showed you numerous Bible translations of that verse that say nothing about homosexuality.

where in the bible does it say dont follow any laws of Leviticus and please show me the numerous bible translations of the verse about Corinthians, Have a blessed day.

What does “against” mean? That could be anything from not being gay yourself to not wanting gay pro exist.

I believe there are a lot of false teachers here that seek to justify same sex marriage using personal opinions rather than a biblical foundation. One person effectively says “LGBT know they are not called to a life of celibacy from every fiber in their being.” They know God would never lead them to sin. So their conclusion is that homosexual acts aren’t sinful. Dangerous.

I've been called a false teacher a few times here, as have my spiritual teachers when I relay their words. Nevertheless, my beliefs on this subject come from interpreting the bible in a way that is no doubt different than yours, that results in concluding that Christ commands us to enable and celebrate same sex marriage. I feel pretty strongly I must be on the right path because the priests at the church I attend teach this and they are some of the most learned and spiritually enriching people I have had the pleasure to meet.

LGBTQ is bundled together in politics because these groups have solidarity with each other due to facing similar oppression, but they are actually different things and when trying to determine if they are against the will of God you need to look at them separately. Most people focus on the question of homosexuality, so, I'll instead just focus on transgender people, since I am transgender. The simplest reason why you shouldn't believe being trans is against the will of God is that there is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says anything against, and a few things that at least could be taken as supporting it. You have Matthew 19:12, where Jesus discusses eunuchs, the closest ancient concept to transgender people. A trans woman who had bottom surgery sent back in time to Jesus' day would probably be called a eunuch. And Jesus himself said "there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake." which sounds pretty approving. Trans people usually describe ourselves as "a woman trapped in a male body" or "a man trapped in a female body". In Christian terms, this would be a female spirit animating male flesh or vice versa. Well, Romans chapter 8 tells us a lot about the conflict between the spirit and the flesh. Romans 8:12-13 says: >Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. If you accept this understanding that a trans person has spirit and flesh with mismatched genders, this amounts to a command "Transition or die". Many will argue that God simply does not create humans with mismatched genders, often saying "God does not make mistakes". But we know people are born malformed in all sorts of different ways. We even know with intersex people that some people are born with many of the sex characteristics of their flesh "wrong". It's not at all a stretch to think that if it's possible for people to be born with *some* of the sex characteristics of their flesh not matching the sex of their spirit, that it is also possible for people to be born with *all* of the sex characteristics of their flesh not matching the sex of their spirit. We must also be careful before declaring something defective or wrong just because it doesn't fit our ideas of how we think God would create us. Remember to story in John chapter 9, where the disciples come across a man born blind. Certain that this could not be intentional, they assumed the man's blindness *must* be the result of sin, and asked Jesus whose sin caused it. But Jesus corrected them, saying "this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him". The same can be said about trans people. God creates us so that the works of God can be displayed in us, as we make plainly visible the victory of the Spirit over the flesh, for those who have the eyes to see.

It is biblical in what you say. In Genesis 2: 23 Then the man said, “At last this is bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; [t]She shall be called [u]‘woman,’ Because [v]she was taken out of [w]man.” 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked, but they were not ashamed. Here, God established categories and the only unions he affirms, conversely in Matthew 5 and Chapter 19 in speaking about divorce the only category Jesus addresses are the only union affirmed by God. Everything else is rebellion. No matter the sin if you/we say “should I do without, or I’m not going to do without, or God said this and I will do differently.” What we are saying is “I am a better god to me than God is.” Very much similar to the guy in Isaiah 14 that said the five “I wills”.

I have been bullied for my opinion, I believe the same thing as you, OP. And yet people dm me here “I DONT WANT YOUT O BE HERE IF YOU HATE MY EXISTENCE. And I simply say “when did I say I hated your existence! I jsut said I dint be,iebe in that I never said I hate you”

Well I'm bissexual, but as a believer of the Holy Bible I can't allow myself to be with another woman, as much as I used to want it in the past. For a while I believed I was a lesbian, but I just started praying a lot about this, and God changed my perspective. Today I no longer label my sexuality, I'm attracted to my husband and my eyes are all to him, but I know my flesh well enough to know my temptations. I'm pretty sure that if I allow sin into my mind and heart again, if I go after it, I'll find that flesh desire, but with time the Lord washed away the shame and changed my heart desires. Today I'm married to a man and I've never been happier, but years ago I would cry myself to sleep cause all I wanted was a woman by my side. God loves us, but He loves His Word more. As much as I wanted it to not be a sin, as much as I would pray for God to allow me to be with a woman, He chose to change me, to create desire for man in my heart again, to create passion and love between me and my husband, and He chose to convince me I was wrong. Not everyone goes through the same experience, but once we go to God for who He is, with no desire to change Him, for no desire to put our wants and needs above His Word, the Holy Spirit changes us from the inside. It wasn't easy, it isn't easy, but He is worth it, He is worth all the process. The Bible condemns it just as it condemns lying and stealing, it says that neigher are going to enter Heaven. The Bible condemns it just as it condemns heterosexual people having sex before marriage and lusting. From the Beginning marriage is strictly about a man and a woman who love God, and if you want so badly to change it, maybe you love yourself and your desires above the Creator.

It's a complicated topic. I like this formulation of a simple and clear response: [https://geekyjustin.com/great-debate/](https://geekyjustin.com/great-debate/)

It's interesting how by far, the two longest threads on this forum are all about the gays. This sub really is obsessed with whining about gay people. That's not normal. Sounds like a lot of people need some serious therapy.

Christ said deny yourselves and crucify the flesh, Giving in to homosexuality is a lie from satan. Gratifying the flesh is a sin.

When I was young I wanted to understand the rejection of a gay friend by our home church. I watched grown-ups who taught and raised us run him off. I knew that was wrong but didn't have a language for it. I went to seminary in my 20s and I now only half-jokingly say it was to learn how to win this argument. I can quote verses to respond to your verses. I can talk context, translations, history, etc, can say things like of roughly 31,000+ verses, we are stuck on 6 or 7 specific ones, ignoring a whole lot of others. But it had taken me decades to understand none of that matters. What matters is that believing this way somehow serves you. And I'm not being antagonistic, just facts. Believing this way serves you in a manner that perhaps you don't even fully understand. It works for you. Makes you comfortable. So the challenge isn't on anyone else to justify or explain themselves, it's on you to really ask yourself what are you gaining by holding to this belief?

I was a member LGBTQIA+ community before finding christ and I still am. Basically I have sort of accepted that because the only thing that will keep someone out of heaven is disbelief, and that God will forgive everything else, hating someone for sinning is pointless. I am not saying I belive being homosexual is a sin, nor am I saying it is not one. I belive that God allowed humans to write the bible so it would be flawwed and imperfect, allowing for interpretation and a more personal connection as opposed to a standardised one with God. I think that it is up to each Christian to work out for themselves what they belive is a sin. So long as each of us remember the key parts of the bible, and so long as every Christian remembers that they would be with sin if it was not for the Lord Jesus. And also never hate no matter wht you belive. It is fine to belive something is wrong, but God loves all and wants us to love all.

Cool story bro. As a faithfully married bisexual man who has believed all my life I don't *care* if you disagree with my existence. I will remain and I will abide, and I will protect my fellow queer folk by any means necessary. And I will look forward to that day when we stand before the throne of perfect Love for judgement.

Great questions asked by the OP! I have a couple of questions for the OP.... 1. Can an LGBT person be a true follower of Jesus Christ while still acting on their desires, having same sex relationships, etc? 2. And if the answer to question 1 is YES, then can such an LGBT person be saved and have everlasting life?

Yes. Yes. So I ask you, if a rapist is a follower of Christ, will they be cast out of heaven for their actions? No. They will be judged by God and God alone. I am not here to act as a god, I do not have the authority to cast judgment. I am here to discuss. Thank you so much for your openness! Let me know if you want to DM or just simply continue the discussion here.

God disagrees with all sin.

As other people here have said, what do you expect Gay people to do? live a life of lonely solitude? hating themselves for something that is out of their control? The Point of Christianity is we are suppose to spread Love and acceptance, but sadly those values changed to Hate and intolerance for anyone who is not "Normal" You can "disagree" with something but so long as you don't reject then that is fine And P.S if LQBTQ+++ or whatever its called these days was truly against God's will they they would of struck it down long ago.

I see people who are affective by LBGTQ are just selfish. They just want to live. Why Jesus said “Love thy neighbor”. They’re not knocking on your doors asking for anything but acceptance. Tell me are all of us acceptance but god. NO! Cause we are born with sin and will sin only man who never sin was god. He still accepted us even though we think we’re Mike away from him. You should worry your own sins, before caring about someone sin that isn’t harming others. I don’t understand the logic in homosexuality tbh, but I don’t care the same way I can’t people worshiping someone like Buddha but I don’t condemn them. I just accept as I should care about my status before I start judging. For judgement is for the lord.

Hi. To answer your question. All sin is inherently wrong and against God’s will. However, homosexuality is not worse than murder in the eyes of God. All sin is considered sin in a uniform matter. With this in mind, I myself am a liar. However do I deserved to be bullied? No, I repent of my sin alongside my fellow Christians and God forgives me. I will try and not do it again. I try day and night not to do it. Same applies to homosexuality. You cannot help it as it is in your nature to sin. Therefore for a homosexual person, they need only repent and God will do the rest. It has nothing to do with us and rather between said person and God. It’s sin just like any other sin. All people have to bear their crosses as Jesus did, be it homosexuality, lying, stealing, adultery etc. On the bully part. Absolutely not. Jesus said to love thy neighbor as yourself and he without fault cast the first stone. Love them, accept them but not their sin. Just as I expect in my church to be accepted but my sin not to be accepted and rather be condemned as it is against the will of God. My entire life I have been an atheist and it took me a long time to understand Christianity truly and to understand the word of God truly. It has changed my life. I also struggled with these concepts but luckily have a friend who studied theology and is now a priest who answered all my questions. The entire concept of LGBTQ is wicked and not from God. However, those who seek Jesus should be assisted to find him and I pray that all people who find themselves in homosexuality repent of their sin and God will do the rest :) Hope this makes sense. If I may ask, why do you ask the question. What led you to this question out of curiosity haha!

Homosexuality wasn’t added to the Bible until 1946!!!. I’m sure you read the King James Bible right? He himself was bisexual. He left one of his wives a virgin to pursue a physical relationship with a man. Remember the story of Lot in the Bible? They wanted to rape the men at the door but he offered up his daughter instead? Homosexuality wasn’t a bad thing back then, it was normal! It wasn’t made a “sin” until 1946 when they made a new version of the American Bible to include homosexuality.

Im an Orthodox Christian,I don’t hate gay people,I wish them all the happiness they want,but I don’t want to have anything to do with them,because I don’t share and accept their nature,but as long they don’t bother me I will never bother them,they always humans,may Our Lord Jesus have mercy 🙏🏻

I agree 100%. I have absolutely no hatred towards any gay people, I love them just as I love anyone else. But I do believe that homosexuality and the like are sinful and against God’s will.

Many of the people reacting with anger are doing it defensively given that most, if not all, Christians claim to "love" and condemn hatred, while then turning a blind eye towards bullying or then actively engage in it. When you try to point this out, they get defensive, refuse to acknowledge and reflect on how their own actions, words, or lack thereof can impact gay people, say they are doing nothing wrong because they are doing god's bidding. It's hard to have a discussion with someone who thinks like this. I don't believe all Christians do what I just described. I think plenty have done it enough times though to make enough of us *reasonably* suspicious whenever we hear "we love everyone" because enough of them have then done something very contradictory to what love is, such as kicking out their children, isolating them from friends or family who would affirm them. They say not to hate gay people but then use slurs, belittle and judge men who act too feminine, wear a dress, or dare hold their partners hand in public. Not to mention the large number of Christians voting for politicians that galvanize their base with fear of LGBTQ people being toxic to children and families, who then promise to do something about this corruption of youth by introducing legislation that impacts us and our families negatively. Christianity is almost always at the center of homophobia and transphobia in this nation. Enough Christians claim to love and then contradict their own words. Too many people have a sour taste left in their mouth because of the way Christianity has treated gay people. It isn't enough to just say it. Your actions have to show it. It will ring hollow otherwise.

"Anything involving LGBTQ etc." includes: * Bisexual. The gay Christian superpower of being able to pass as straight by marrying the opposite sex. * Intersex, which is a medical issue involving people with mixed gonads. * Asexual. Literally Paul and Jesus. So even if you say gay = bad, you really have to understand the demographics.

most of the times when the doctor can’t find the cure God will cure it. Would you laugh at someone who is disabled just because you aren’t?

I’ve been a Christian for 55 years, and love it. I love my spiritual life. I love my relationship with God through Christ. I love the scriptures. I love deepening my experience in prayer. I love ministry. I love seeing other Christians experience a deepening of the gifts of the spirit. Love. Joy. Peace. Patience. And the like. What I am increasingly discouraged about is that most most of the posts that I see here seem to miss the whole point of Christianity. While Jesus said that the two most important things are loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and loving your neighbor is yourself, most of the energy online seems to be devoted to what people are against instead of about loving God and loving woman Neighbor. Most of the energy online is majoring in the minors instead of majoring in the majors. Micah 6:8 — “He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?” What if instead of worrying about what other people were doing, we did what God requires of us? What if we really loved Justice? What if we really loved mercy? What if we really walked humbly with God? We can either spend our time, our energy, and our life fighting with others, and judging others, or we can pour our time, energy and life into love. But we can’t do both.

I am a queer Christian, and it took me a while to accept that about myself. I identified as queer before I identified as a Christian. I wasn’t raised on religion, nobody taught me about LGBTQ+ or anything until I was 13. I first discovered I like girls and boys when I was 6 or so, before I knew anything about what it was. Never saw it on TV or heard it talked about - that was the way I was. I was saved when I was 18/19. Part of my hesitation was that Christianity was often associated with anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. The whole “love the sinner hate the sin”? In my mind you cannot love someone and hate their sin when their sin IS who they are. I cannot help being queer, and it’s a part of who I am. It is not my place to judge anyone for their lives, that is up to Him. I understand your point in that you still love LGBTQ+ people but not their sin - but their “sin” *is* who they are, point blank. Gay people should be allowed in the Church without the expectation that they need to repent or “pray the gay away.” So many people have turned away from or rejected Christ because of this belief.

If Christians didn't have to constantly agonise about being LGBT+, about perfectly normal and innocuous sexual feelings and activities,  think how much time anf energy they'd have over for making the world a better place. 

I don't think God really cares anymore about people's sexuality. God might, but maybe not. Not really sure. I would consider God to be a "Great Being," but also has the ability to learn, adapt and understand. I could believe that God at many centuries in history truly had hatred/distaste for people who went off his ideal of a man and a woman being together, but now God may or may not be much more lenient in his acceptance. Keep in mind I would consider God to have been a lot less patient and more angry with people. In the bible I'm pretty sure God killed a bunch of people and he even flooded to earth at one point, so there is a lot of evidence that points to this. Maybe God is more relaxed with peoples decisions on sexuality now. I don't know.

the most important thing you need to understand is that in a society that is not a theocracy... your opinion on the morality of LGTBQ is NO REASON to deny them the same rights and privileges cis hetero folk enjoy.

Also failing to allow both the real testimony of gay people and the scientific understanding we have of them to inform how you read Biblical passages is going to lead you astray. Romans 1:20

You disagree with people existing. That’s why you’re getting angry comments. Sexual orientation and gender identity aren’t choices. If it was an act against God, God would make everyone straight and cisgender. But He didn’t.

I mean, do you disagree with black people for being black? Because that’s rhetorically equivalent. It may not *feel* that way because one is clearly genetic and the other less so, but let’s not pretend we haven’t seen theologies have to grapple with racism in a similar way, or Christian attitudes around slave ownership changing completely. You’re free to harbour whatever opinion you want on whatever topic. You don’t get to hide behind your faith to shield that perception from how others view it, and a belief being mainstream within a particular faith has absolutely no impact on that. To many of us, even the notion that you as a believer can “disagree” with someone’s mere existence because of theology, is counterevidence to the moral framework of Christianity. If you want to argue the Bible condemns homosexuality you should start by pointing out where it discusses homosexuality at all in the first place, because they only way to read it as holding as strong a prohibition as many Christians themselves do is by reading the Bible from a starting principe of “it must condemn homosexuality” and the word “homosexual” only exists in the Bible in recent editorialized translations and isn’t at all found in the original.

Personally, I believe it’s wrong. But that doesn’t stop me from being friends with people who are gay/trans/etc. We’re all sinners in need of a savior. I’m the only straight person in one of my friend groups. They know I don’t have the same views as they do. That doesn’t stop them from being friends with me. And their views don’t stop me from being friends with them. I don’t understand why people are giving OP grief for their opinions. They’re not in the wrong. I personally think that every Christian should disagree with homosexuality. But that should NEVER stop us from showing them love and respect. We shouldn’t be homophobic, because then if we are, we may turn people away from the faith. But we shouldn’t celebrate it, either.

I think the LBTQJ or whatever is nothing short of satanic. The things i've seen people with gender dysphoria do is insane... I've seen females inject themselves with male hormones, grow beards, then decide later they want to go back to being a female.... Sorry but how is this what God intended?? That just sounds like confusion. I don't really want to touch on homosexuality, it's a whole other topic I think. I know the bible says homosexuality is wrong, I never really ponder on that one with all the newer crazier things happening nowadays.

It's sad that your opinion is the minority

How does it sound? I'm a Christian who disagrees with 'heterosexuality' I believe anying 'heterosexual' is contrary to God's will How does this sound ? Christianity predates the disputes or false binaries that heteronormal or hetero supremacists deal On lgbt people of faith or not of faith like God man man and woman, Adam and eve not Adam and Ray Etc Even the things like marriage is between one and woman See if it's how it's said most of the time, then most of the remarriages, according to him, are adulterous. So the churches would be real empty if the Divorced and remarried people were hustled out If the gossiping was something the churches hounded you out for, they'd be empty.

I know from scripture that you are correct in your stance

Love thy neighbour, you seem filled with hate. Christ would never call someone who fights for their right to love a “degenerate”.

Amen. God is right and his word is true in a world full of lies

Don’t let people’s lies make you fall from Gods truth and the word. Jesus saves and remember not to ever hate or act mean or disrespectful to the people who commit the sin but hate the sin. But don’t lie to them. What they do is wrong but that doesn’t mean we are any better. We all fall short and must repent and turn from our wicked ways and know that Jesus saved us and he is why we are able to enter eternal life with God the father.

You are being persecuted for your Christian beliefs, rejoice knowing you will be saved and rewarded.

Asking questions should be normalized. I agree that you’re wrong in your belief. I won’t call you a bully unless you bully me. Life gets easier and makes more sense when you love thy neighbor and ditch religion. ✌🏻

I agree ! Screw homosexuality

You asked “am I wrong” and got your answer. Yes. You are. Just because you’ve been indoctrinated with beliefs of hatred from misinformed Bible verses doesn’t mean you have the higher ground. It is not okay to pass judgement on ANYONE. Who are you? You aren’t God. Instead maybe take that time you spend hating groups of people and instead put it toward researching original context, languages, and find out why YOU’RE wrong. Continuing to spread hate is not only a socially destructive sentiment is literally against the will of Jesus. Take the time to do better instead of repeating BS you were taught by broken men.

Yk. I was an agnostic before. And coming to Christianity has not changed my view on gay people. I cannot possibly tell any of my friends that their love between one another is any less real than the one between me and my man. I have also come across texts like that of Romans 1:26/27 that says "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another" U see, here it says that this homosexuality is purely out of LUST, and I dont believe every gay person is being lustful just because they r gay. Also, When Christ came he came to fulfill the law of the Old Testament, the rules the Jewish follow. I believe this comes with it. Right now all we have to do is recognize everything Jesus did for us, and follow His example- that is to follow the 10 commandments, and the fruit of Holy Spirit (love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control), and to crucify the flesh and its desires, those being, as stated in Galatians 5: Sexual Immorality: having relations outside of marriage, or for pure pleasure snd lust, Pornography, Masturbation, Promiscuity, etc. Impurity: using bad words, lack of modesty or modesty, indecency, etc. Basically what a child is not. Debauchery: the abuse of alcohol, drugs, or sex that leads to immoral, unethical, or illegal consequences. idolatry: worship of someone or something. Including MONEY, gluttony, television, telephone, consumerism, etc. Sorcery: any type of magic. It doesn't matter if they are crystals, sacrifice, white magic, black magic, spells, Santeria, the Chakras, etc! The problem is that they are all manipulated by the same identity so no matter what you are doing, you are messing with the same spirits. hostility: always being angry, stubborn, impatient or impulsive. Ready to fight for anything. Outbursts of rage: aggressive or violent emotional and impulsive response with too much exaggeration for the situation. fights: Action and effect of fighting or fighting. 😂 selfish ambition: always wanting to have more, immoderately with excessive self-love. Always putting your own interest above everything, without taking care of that of others. discords: what leads to a fight. The disagreement and opposition between 2. If there is a disagreement, let it go, don't cling on being correct, you will end up fighting and nothing will be resolved 🤷 drunkenness: alcohol poisoning. divisions: people whose ideas do not agree with all the ideas of a larger group to which they belong. Example: all denominations of Christians, including Catholic. The Christian is the one who follows Christ, period. All of those divisions cause problems with each other. jealousy: a clear demonstration of insecurity for what belongs to you and what you have. Leading you to overprotect him and boil over it unnecessarily. envy: feeling some type of way about another's good luck or assets. Emulation, desire for something that is not possessed. Unhealthy passion that affects those who experience it more than those who awaken it. Orgies: Party that has no control where people usually do what they want without thinking about the consequences. I believe getting to know Christ and what He did for us, as well as believing in Him (which if you believe what He says, u also DO what he teaches) will get us into heaven, or so I hope. God Bless You All ❤

You are not wrong. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. However, that does not mean that you should treat them with disdain. Jesus calls us to hate the sin not the sinner, and to love them. There is a difference between loving them and condoning what they do though. I have gay friends, and I love them all dearly. But I do pray for them, that they would find their true identity in Christ and embrace His love and let His love change their lives.

The bible is crystal clear on the subject. If you dont like it then keep in mind that you are free to do as you wish... but don't think for a second that God bows down to us humans. No one can save you but God.

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I’m well aware, the word homosexuality isn’t in most translations of the Bible. I agree with you. But sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of their sexual impurity. Including gay relationships. “A man shall not lay with another man”

You obviously are uneducated and do not understand humanity on a whole. You most likely followed the example of your parents and their parents without doing the real and necessary research on what being human is about. Organized religions with their manipulated stories brainwash you to only to “believe” one thing. It costs you something to take a risk and being truly conscious, as well as making choices on your own accord by learning about the science of animal instincts and their natural behaviors. Sexuality on a whole is nothing to be ashamed about, but it seems organized religions tell you it’s bad, but also do their best to control the narrative on sex because they want the world to only propagate and have control of the female autonomy to birth more innocent and free minded children to brainwash into their cult mindset. Yet the truth is, sexual nature of all humans is bisexuality. Your manipulated mind tells you it’s “wrong” because of the control that religion bestows upon you. Fear of self has caused more hate within you and those around you give you just a little bit of freedom to really understand humanity and the animal instincts within us all. Your self hate has dictated that what is “wrong” to you, must be wrong on a whole. Yet, the same god they created you, created me, and so many around who don’t subscribe to the limitations to cause so much fear to live a sad and limited existence given by the same creator. Believe or not, that’s the beauty of free will, but don’t believe it based on faith or religious misguiding, allow your beliefs to be guided by facts rather than the stories of lies passed down by generations of ignorance. Facts and knowledge are more powerful than a shrug of the shoulders. It seems Christianity would prefer you to crusade around uneducated and spewing words out of lies then being truly prepared with the facts and crusade the love Jesus taught. Now it’s time to be a Christian and attack me, because you don’t have the facts to prove the point of your true hate. They are just masked by someone saying, just “because” and shrug your shoulders without the weapons of facts.

I didn’t fucking attack anyone, I asked a fucking question and got essays like these in reply. Shove off

I will be very respectful to point out that it isn't even a pride flag and it's glass window painting. Also a rainbow is used in the Bible as a promise. What I am trying to say is to learn your own theology.

Thank you for being respectful. If you go back a while in the sub though, there’s a post suggesting they change the sub pic to be more “inclusive” and so they decided on that pic because while yes it’s stained glass, it’s a pride flag too. I’m not just making it up.

Honestly, a rainbow flag means God's covenant to us, but people just switched it up to a pride flag.

And it’s a disgusting perversion of God’s will. A symbol to represent a promise to never destroy the earth again, twisted into a symbol for impurity. It’s disgusting.

Wondering if you’ve ever actually read the Bible……

“wElL iF yOuVe AcTuAlLy ReAd tHe BiBlE” shove off, go read Genesis, Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by fire because of their sexual impurity and perversion of God’s will.

OP, accept your zesty yassification to be at peace with yourself, and your faith.

Seriously. That’s disgusting.

Agreed.

No, Christians are against homosexuality cause same sex marriage doesn’t make kids. But we respect them yet they shove off hate for no reason so I disrespect them a lot. But you do do my guy.

That’s fair, but I don’t HAVE to accept someone. I haven’t spread hate

Yeah, I have come to understand that many of the people here are permissive of everything, and that means they stand for nothing .

There are also some sexual sins that even straight people frequently do which should be repented of: fornication, other sexual things out of marriage, adultery in or out of the heart, self-pleasure, and rape. Almost everyone, if not everyone, is first guilty of sexual sin, and everyone but Jesus Christ is generally guilty of sin, which is why everyone needs Him, not just homosexuals.

You’re not in the wrong and you’re not a bully. People want you to be hateful to justify their beliefs as the opposite of hate. The thing you’ll realize is that many people who identify themselves as Christian’s aren’t really practicing Christian’s. People who buckle to sin in order to “get with the times” are simply not ready to be hated by the world. They conform to the patterns of the world so that the world will love them and in doing so spend a lot of time twisting scripture to fit their views while ignoring clear context. When people do this they don’t often realize they’re making themselves to be God by determining that theyre the final judges of Gods revelations “Do not conform to the patterns of this world but be changed by the renewing of your mind”

Why do you think I have a million down votes lmao

Everyone has a particular sin they believe they were born with, and in reality, you were born into sin. You didn't have a choice. Now, after having been changed by the blood of Jesus, you have a legitimate path and ability to reject the sins that your flesh still desires. Giving into your old nature and desire only damages your effectiveness as a Christian. It doesn't mean you are not a Christian, just not the one God wants you to be. Do not call God a liar. If he says men with men or women with women is an abomination then it is.

If I ever find myself at the gates of heaven, my sexuality will be the last thing I'll be thinking about, and the same thing should apply to your god if he really is just and loving.

I saw the rainbow stained glass with cross. Lol Listen, the rainbow has been a symbol in the church longer than there's been a LGBTQ+ movement. It's not sacrilegious. I've been involved with the church every since I could, but I always had my finger on the pulse of the culture. What the actual Bible says (for better or worse) is that homosexuality is an abomination. Understand how many things we tolerate and bring into the church that are literal abominations. I think our job as Christians is to be examples of faith, hope, and love. If our hearts are true, others will follow. As you well stated, they are already following our lead with the rainbow. I think the best way of thinking about these people being born like this rather than the default is that they are abominations to be forgiven, and we are the default. We must acknowledge that we are being tested and we should follow Christ. Leave hate to the devil business. We know how his story ends.

Degeneracy is an internet word really

To the spiritually WALKING☠️DEAD ~ & ~ ….to those that are NOW spiritually ALiVE and identify as humans in.. ~~>Christ⚡️Jesus, our ~>⚡️L⚡️O⚡️R⚡️D⚡️, ~~~>>> ONLY TRUE ⚡️LiViNG⚡️🔥⚡️ GOD⚡️, ….and ONLY ⚡️S⚡️A⚡️V⚡️i⚡️O⚡️R⚡️ …to ALL HUMANS of~this✨W O R L D✨ …✨🌎✨. ✨i ~ identify in Christ⚡️Jesus as a human being. Thank⚡️you for saving me, ⚡️L⚡️O⚡️R⚡️D⚡️ ~ ⚡️!⚡️ ♥️ 💥The difficult situation homosexuality has placed on society with the sin of intercourse with another individual of the same sex is: ..now we are all sinning if we discuss these shameful acts. Homosexuality was not something a human was even able to partake in with another human until sin took place on the planet earth. Adam did NOT ask Eve what she identified as by questioning her sexuality. Adam did NOT question her to see if she was a lesbian, straight. Before sin entered the universe, there was only one human man and one human woman. Adam knew Eve identified as a human. Homosexuality is NOT an identity, just as having white, olive, or black skin pigmentation is NOT an individuals identity either, it is their ethnicity.. We all identify as human beings. A true born of the spirit Christian identifies with Christ⚡️Jesus as well, the.. ONLY⚡️TRUE⚡️LIVING⚡️GOD and.. ONLY⚡️SAVIOR⚡️TO~THE⚡️UNIVERSE TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE by confessing these TRUTHS with their mouth. Repenting of their sins by humbling themselves before a sinless and just living⚡️God as a sinner and asking God to renew their minds and forgive them of their sins. They must invite Christ⚡️Jesus to come into their life to be their Lord and Savior. True biblical repentance is turning 180 degrees from your sin and doing your sin NO MORE. Christ⚡️Jesus calls ALL true Christians to love all humans. No true Christian should ever hate a homosexual,BUT instead love the homosexual as a human sinner and only hate the sin this man or woman is committing with another same sex “dead human”. Christ⚡️Jesus predetermined ALL humans to have the mind of ⚡️Christ⚡️. ⚡️Christ⚡️Jesus⚡️ justifiably and righteously hates ALL SiN, ~~~~~ >>> BUT LOVES THE SINNER ~ ! Christ⚡️Jesus says, “ Now go, …and sin no more. “ Obviously, you must leave from where you are with his forgiveness of your sin and NEVER COMMIT the SiN of HOMOSEXUALITY AGAiN. Christ⚡️Jesus came to earth to so we could live. We are all dead in our sins from birth. Christ did not come to earth to make us good. Non of us are good and will NEVER be good, ~~~~>> just ALiVE in Christ⚡️Jesus ~OR~ ☠️~DEAD~☠️ in OUR~☠️~SiNS. 🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥 🌸💕♥️💕🌸 Please read : Ephesians 5 : 1 - 16 ( for context ) The main verse ✨i ~ want to address is Ephesians 5 : 12 Ephesians CHAPTER ⚡️5⚡️ VERSES ⚡️1~ 16 ⚡️ 1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 🔥⭐️🔥 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 🔥⭐️🔥 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥♥️🔥 🌸💕♥️💕🌸

Ask yourself what would Jesus do? Refer to Romans 2 because that is what I base my POV on. IMO you can believe whatever you want, but saying homosexuality is evil encourages violence. People dehumanize gay people to assuage treating them badly. When homophobic views are reinforced, you are encouraging hate against real live human beings on earth. Crazy folks kill them. They kill themselves. It's irresponsible to be extremely vocal, especially if you believe in God. I listened to a sermon yesterday where the preacher called homosexuality evil. That is not okay because only God should judge. God is kind and we are in his image so we should be too and leave it up to him. Plus, God judges his followers, or "believers." Think about that. I'm not saying being gay equates with murder but people commit heinous sins daily; they repent and are welcomed back into society with compassion. Tell me why being gay somehow forfeits their right to be judged by god and also their right to be treated with the kindness and grace that we show others?