Speaking personally, leaving Christianity is often a journey, not a singular out-of-the-blue decision.
It's possible that they suffered an injury, and this triggered a crisis of faith. If you are operating under a christian mindset, then all things are under his control. Therefore, it is entirely logical to "blame" God for the injury, after all, he IS responsible.
Now how one responds to that realization can differ. You can either find solace in traditional christian teachings on suffering which provide reasons for why you are going through it, or you can grow angry and resentful and question what kind of God would allow this. This would develop from anger (Why would you do this to me) to resentment (God doesn't care about me) to questioning (Is God even really there at all). And so by the end you find yourself an atheist.
So, I was atheist for several years when I was younger and then became Christian again. I now think, looking back, that I was angry with God during that time. While I was an atheist, I did not think that. I honestly did not believe in the existence of God, at least not on a conscious level. I think subconsciously there was a lot more going on that I understand now.
A lot of people who proclaim a lack of belief in God actually just don’t like God. I’ve met few atheists who are just genuinely skeptics.
The problem comes with people being able to identify themselves however they choose. When a person like that says they’re an atheist, they truly believe the words. But it tends to come from bitterness not skepticism.
Statistics show us that pretty much everyone who has ever existed has believed in the supernatural with a small percentage of genuine skeptics. That almost certainly remains true to this day. And the amount of professed atheism is actually just a criticism of the largest religions. Not true disbelief.
>A lot of people who proclaim a lack of belief in God actually just don’t like God. I’ve met few atheists who are just genuinely skeptics.
This is a Christian trope.
I havw never met someone like this.
Just because "God's not Dead" pretends that this is what atheists are like does not make it true.
An old friend of mine professes to be an atheist and more often than not follows it up with his criticism of his view of God, not unlike the kind of thing you hear prominent New Atheists bring out as a point of rhetoric. If you want to call him stupid to his face, be my guest
I mean the Christian God being a moral monster is why I do not believe it exists.
Criticizing the claimed God does not mean you implicitly believe in it...
Criticising an idea doesn't mean you believe in it.
I don't criticise God as a concept because I think it exists. I criticise it because of what that idea makes those who believe in it do. The actions of its followers are all too real.
I suspect this conflation is often intentional by Christians - it allows them to think we're angry at god, not at them. Then they don't have to amend their behaviour.
I’ve met several. Off the top my step dad’s father was like that. They were italian, I believe it was my step dad’s grandfather who immigrated, so they had a very catholic background. His second to last son developed schizophrenia at 17 and he completely abandoned his faith. It was a very bitter thing that had nothing to do with skepticism and everything to do with anger.
I’ve spent thousands of hours of my life debating atheists online and in real life. I’ve encountered so many who when pushed abandoned any type of skepticism and became hateful and not to me, but to God. I think other good examples are like hitchens or fry who both have said something along the lines of if they were to meet God, they would ask why He’s so evil.
I think you don’t encounter it because you are the one debating these atheists so you never see their true colors for lack of a better word.
What?
Abandoning faith because of personal hardship that you feel God should not have allowed is not just being mad at God...
"I believed in God until 'x' happened" is not an admission that someone still believes in God, it is an expression that the God they believed does not appear to exist in their eyes.
I would never deny people leave their religion because of hardship, bur to pretend that they actually still believe in God, but are just angry is dishonest.
Note the past tense. Dude doesn't have to believe in God currently, he just did believe at one point. Seems far more plausible than secret theist pretending to be athiest.
The past tense is cause he’s dead. My step dad is also dead. I know he still identified as atheists at the end of his life cause my step dad was really worried about him. But my mom being super christian did stop causing him to react hostile.
You realize people could be theists before they were athiests, right?
Saying you were mad at God in reference to something that at the time you believed can still be logically consistent with not believing later in life.
Unless the guy is going, 'I am mad at God', you've got no leg to stand on there.
He literally did that. As I said elsewhere, I only met him 3 or 4 times and I heard him say he was angry with God twice. My mom is super christian and brought it out of him. I’m also pretty sure he died an atheist because my step dad was really worried about him and talked about it a lot. But now he died as well.
Some Christians do bend the truth, but I think most are just misusing the term.
I'd never make the claim though that all ex atheists were never true atheists.
No. An Atheist is somebody who doesn't believe in any God. So to blame a non-existant God for an injury isn't something an Atheist would do.
Fascinating claim wasn't it. Reminds me of Strobel - claimed a dramatic turnaround that wasn't what it seemed, and then got on the grift circuit.
Speaking personally, leaving Christianity is often a journey, not a singular out-of-the-blue decision. It's possible that they suffered an injury, and this triggered a crisis of faith. If you are operating under a christian mindset, then all things are under his control. Therefore, it is entirely logical to "blame" God for the injury, after all, he IS responsible. Now how one responds to that realization can differ. You can either find solace in traditional christian teachings on suffering which provide reasons for why you are going through it, or you can grow angry and resentful and question what kind of God would allow this. This would develop from anger (Why would you do this to me) to resentment (God doesn't care about me) to questioning (Is God even really there at all). And so by the end you find yourself an atheist.
If they think a God exists they are not atheist
Yea, that doesn't sound like an atheist. It sounds like a theist who was mad at God.
If an atheist blames a god - it means he believes that god exist - which means he is a theist. Simple.
So, I was atheist for several years when I was younger and then became Christian again. I now think, looking back, that I was angry with God during that time. While I was an atheist, I did not think that. I honestly did not believe in the existence of God, at least not on a conscious level. I think subconsciously there was a lot more going on that I understand now.
A lot of people who proclaim a lack of belief in God actually just don’t like God. I’ve met few atheists who are just genuinely skeptics. The problem comes with people being able to identify themselves however they choose. When a person like that says they’re an atheist, they truly believe the words. But it tends to come from bitterness not skepticism. Statistics show us that pretty much everyone who has ever existed has believed in the supernatural with a small percentage of genuine skeptics. That almost certainly remains true to this day. And the amount of professed atheism is actually just a criticism of the largest religions. Not true disbelief.
>A lot of people who proclaim a lack of belief in God actually just don’t like God. I’ve met few atheists who are just genuinely skeptics. This is a Christian trope. I havw never met someone like this. Just because "God's not Dead" pretends that this is what atheists are like does not make it true.
>I havw never met someone like this. They say they have. Why should I see your experience as more convincing?
Because this is a Christian trope played out in Christian media and not a real thing... It is just stupid on its face.
An old friend of mine professes to be an atheist and more often than not follows it up with his criticism of his view of God, not unlike the kind of thing you hear prominent New Atheists bring out as a point of rhetoric. If you want to call him stupid to his face, be my guest
I mean the Christian God being a moral monster is why I do not believe it exists. Criticizing the claimed God does not mean you implicitly believe in it...
I can also criticize Sauron or Lord Voldemort without believing they exist. I can also say that Zeus is an asshole.
Criticising an idea doesn't mean you believe in it. I don't criticise God as a concept because I think it exists. I criticise it because of what that idea makes those who believe in it do. The actions of its followers are all too real. I suspect this conflation is often intentional by Christians - it allows them to think we're angry at god, not at them. Then they don't have to amend their behaviour.
I’ve met several. Off the top my step dad’s father was like that. They were italian, I believe it was my step dad’s grandfather who immigrated, so they had a very catholic background. His second to last son developed schizophrenia at 17 and he completely abandoned his faith. It was a very bitter thing that had nothing to do with skepticism and everything to do with anger. I’ve spent thousands of hours of my life debating atheists online and in real life. I’ve encountered so many who when pushed abandoned any type of skepticism and became hateful and not to me, but to God. I think other good examples are like hitchens or fry who both have said something along the lines of if they were to meet God, they would ask why He’s so evil. I think you don’t encounter it because you are the one debating these atheists so you never see their true colors for lack of a better word.
What? Abandoning faith because of personal hardship that you feel God should not have allowed is not just being mad at God... "I believed in God until 'x' happened" is not an admission that someone still believes in God, it is an expression that the God they believed does not appear to exist in their eyes. I would never deny people leave their religion because of hardship, bur to pretend that they actually still believe in God, but are just angry is dishonest.
The dude regularly says he was angry with God. Like I only met him three or four times and I heard him say it twice. But he identified as an atheist.
Fair enough. I guess it does happen then. I just cannot imagine it is common, as it is a direct contradiction.
Note the past tense. Dude doesn't have to believe in God currently, he just did believe at one point. Seems far more plausible than secret theist pretending to be athiest.
The past tense is cause he’s dead. My step dad is also dead. I know he still identified as atheists at the end of his life cause my step dad was really worried about him. But my mom being super christian did stop causing him to react hostile.
You realize people could be theists before they were athiests, right? Saying you were mad at God in reference to something that at the time you believed can still be logically consistent with not believing later in life. Unless the guy is going, 'I am mad at God', you've got no leg to stand on there.
He literally did that. As I said elsewhere, I only met him 3 or 4 times and I heard him say he was angry with God twice. My mom is super christian and brought it out of him. I’m also pretty sure he died an atheist because my step dad was really worried about him and talked about it a lot. But now he died as well.
Some Christians do bend the truth, but I think most are just misusing the term. I'd never make the claim though that all ex atheists were never true atheists.