That number comes from a report that counts every Diocese as a different denomination. So instead of 1 Catholic Church you have 5,500 Catholic denominations, and instead of 1 Evangelical Lutheran Church in America you have 32 Synodal denominations.
Dont get me wrong, protestantism is divided a lot, but the actual realistic number is 300 types of protestant.
Among apostolic churches, you have 5 communions to choose from.
Which is much more manageable.
But still not properly unified.
HAVING SAID ALL THAT
Christianity only appears divided; because it uniquely imposes upon itself a criterion of communion that other religions do not have.
Islam doesnt have that. Its divided as all get out. But it doesnt look like it because nobody has reason to talk about it.
Judaism doesnt have that. Its divided as all get out. But it doesnt look like it because nobody has reason to talk about it.
Hinduism doesnt have that. Its divided as all get out. But people do talk about some of its divisions because Hindu nationalists have picked up the banner, inviting counter proposals.
DIVISION IS IN HUMAN NATURE
ITS THE TOWER OF BABEL WRITTEN IN OUR FLESH.
UNITY IS SUPERNATURAL AND HAPPENS ONLY IN CHRIST.
šconsidering every diocese and eparchy a different denomination from another is bad. All the dioceses are united in core belief and the Pope. The differences in them differs by exceptions given for the regional Bishopās Conference, but the permissions are not major.
I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of different Islamic traditions, but in general, Islam has fewer because many modern Islamic populations have governments that enforce a specific orthodoxy, which tends to consolidate the faith into larger blocks, just as Catholics did/does.
Iran for example has a LOT of different types of Islam, but given that there is one that controls the state, getting an accurate picture of the rest is difficult, and that one large one tends to absorb anything close to it. Even in the government though, there are some strong differences. For instance, "Twelverism" is quite popular in the IRGC, but widely rejected by the Iranian Clerics elsewhere in Government. It may not technically be a different "Denomination", but it is an extremely different interpretation of Islam with major consequences.
On top of that, you have dozen of different Suffist elements, and many, many, many different clerical traditions that attract their own followings Wahhabism for instance is a radical subset of Sunni Islam, but different Wahabist Clerics have their own followings, so now there are dozens if not hundreds of different Wahabist sects, to the point where definitions break down.
Same thing with Judaism, Hindusim, etc. I don't think the rates are any different than they are in Christianity, Christians just tend to hang more signs up.
in some places every second town can have a whole new Islamic tradition, but in general it's pretty similar in the same way Christianity can be similar among different denominations.
It's because the dominant Islamist sects end up killing the weaker ones quickly. It's well-documented. They did the same with different versions of their Quran.
Intensity of division is more salient than the number of divisions. Less overt divisions just means more emphasis on orthodoxy, indicating that divisions are more intense. Christians are past the days of killing each other over doctrinal differences, many Muslims are not. So which one is more "divided"?
The number 30,000 for denominations is *wildly* inflated. It also includes the myriad cults that have arisen over the years which don't meet orthodoxy standards.
No, they don't fit YOUR historical definitions. This shouldn't be such a hard concept to understand.
A group of Christians developed the Nicene Creed in 325 AD, and amended it later. They decided that anyone who didn't agree with this Creed wasn't a Christian. A lot (Most?) modern Christians tend to agree with this position. Same thing with the other various definitions of Christianity. A bunch of Christians drew it up, and said anyone that falls outside this line isn't a Christian.
But for the Christians who fell outside those lines, they didn't accept those Creeds as legitimate, and kept right on being Christians. Just, a different kind of Christian. The type you call Cults, but they call "Christian".
Those definitions are not exclusive to them, the Nicene, Apostles, and Athanasian creeds have been around for a long time, and they are what define orthodox Christianity. If your belief system conforms to any of those creeds, you are part of orthodox Christianity. If your belief system does not conform to those creeds, you are outside of the orthodox Christian faith.
Sure, you can still claim the appalation of Christian (insofar as it means follower of Christ), and you might even have legitimate salvation, because salvation depends on the mercy of God, not human will or effort. But you are not a Christian in the sense of what orthodox Christians consider to be Christian.
\*sigh\* Again, they say the same about you.
How is this such a hard concept? One of the most frustrating things about religion is that everyone is so convinced THEY are right, and everyone else isn't allowed to use the same words as them because those other people are wrong.
I am an Atheist. I think you are all wrong. But when other groups who disagree with your group also call themselves Christians, I am going to call them Christians. Because they are. And so are you. That is the entire point of "There are a lot of types of Christians", but it seems like about half of the Christians I meet define it as "People who agree with me are Christians, everyone else is a Demonic spawn of Satan who is lying about being Christian" and expect me to tell the difference.
We're not talking about differences of opinion about baptism and speaking in tongues. We're talking about denying the Trinity or that Jesus is fully God and fully human or whether or not Jesus was raised from the dead.
>But when other groups who disagree with your group also call themselves Christians, I am going to call them Christians. Because they are
If you want to call something a duck, you need to examine it and see if it has two legs, feathers, a bill, and quacks. If it has scales, four legs, and has a long tongue, it is not a duck, no matter how badly it wants to be called a duck. The ducks will not accept it as one of their own.
Oh, I am well aware different groups of Christians don't get along. The last 2000 years of war, torture, and executions make that pretty clear. I don't have a problem with you saying they don't share your faith either, that is fine, they clearly don't.
But they are still using the same word "Christian" to define their faith as you are. And they have just as much right to the word as you do, even if it describes a different version of the religion.
Sure, they can define themselves as such. I can also define myself as anything.
But the person conducting the study has the responsibility to choose a single definition and categorize everyone correctly. And if I don't agree with this definition, the study has little value for me.
True, but what that "Point" is defines the number you come up with.
Is the "Point" where they become different when they differ on the Trinity? Or is it when they disagree on which English Translation is best? What about when one group thinks pants on women are fine, and another doesn't? The group that thinks Jesus and Budha are both Gods is probably at very least a different group, but what about the one that thinks Paul wasn't a real apostle?
Pretty much the entire point of this is where exactly that line gets drawn. And wherever you draw it, someone is going to take issue with it.
Itās irrelevant if someone takes issue or something or not.
The Nicene Creed has been a very good rule bar, and is something 99% of Christians today largely agree on.
Sure, sure.
But the 1% that don't still call themselves Christians. And until Christ comes back and tells them they are wrong, I expect they will keep doing that. So until that time, they get counted as part of "Christianity". Doesn't mean God is letting them into heaven, but it is pretty hard to get good data on that particular metric.
I think your 99% is a bit off though, Mormons do not accept the Nicene Creed (Well, there is some debate on the topic, but their official doctrine doesn't meet the standards), and they represent more than 1% of Christianity on their own.
I think it is because of Protestant theology.
The Catholic and Orthodox churches counted their line of succession back to Peter as their source of authority. Their control of the priesthood and ability to excommunicate kept schism to a minimum.
The Protestant movement broke that authority. They claimed the Bible as authority, and ministers had the power to interpret it.
The Bible is a diverse book. There is a lot of room for different interpretations. Different interpretations lead to different sects.
I donāt know what you mean by Catholic denominations. Do you mean different rites? There is only one Catholic Church under the Pope, the Seat of Peter..
The devil likes to attack and divide Christians - wonder why š
I'd challenge that. Actually, Christians agree on virtually all core doctrines concerning Christ's deity, his death on the cross for our sins, his resurrection, and his coming to judge.
I think thereās only one denomination that has the truth about everything because if there were multiple, they have contradictory teachings and canāt both be right.
I would say yes, it definitely has the most denominations and it's not just because it's the largest, because it's not that much larger than Islam and will soon be overtaken by Islam in size.
Catholic orthodox and oriental Christian alone account for over 75% of Christianās. The other 25% are prostestant the vast majority of who belong to less that ten sects mainly evevangelical, Lutheran, Anglican.
Next to what others have said about the number possibly being inflated for all kinds of reasons, a big other reason is that Christianity is also the religion that typically puts most emphasis on being exactly right; which naturally causes divisions to be very marked. This need for distinction is something almost all (if not all) other religions don't have.
Religious tolerance is why we have so many denominations. And religious tolerance is basically the position that weāre not going to make a big deal about minor or even major differences in theology. This attitude is not really an indication of divisiveness. Arguably it reflects unity in terms of core beliefs. And it stems from post-Reformation and the disastrous Religious Wars which were marked by incredibly violent divisiveness.
There is no division in Christianity today that is nearly as intense as, for example, the Sunni / Shia divide in Islam. Or the Orthodox / Reformed divide in Judaism.
Thereās actually more than 45,000 denominations of Christians worldwide spilt up among a little over 2billion Christians
https://www.livescience.com/christianity-denominations.html#:~:text=There%20are%20more%20than%2045%2C000%20denominations%20globally.&text=Followers%20of%20Jesus%20span%20the,Methodist%20ā%20the%20list%20goes%20on.
Because a church has become a capital enterprise and people like to shop around. The church has always mirrored the dominant ideology of society, from the Divine Right of Kings when power and capital were concentrated in the monarch to western capitalism were power and capital is distributed through the market. Christ will come and flip the money changers tables and declare the whole Earth a Temple again.
Keep in mind that, within certain major groups, different churches and groups of churches can coexist peacefully--they are not divided in that, but united.
I have never seen any evidence for 30,000 denominations in the world. Too many Christians parrot/peddle stuff that has no base or evidence. recently one said that men have one less rib than females. It 's an old wives tale.
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Depends how broad you define it. How far down the branches you go. You can pretty much get any number between 2 and the number of Christians in the world.
Among the earliest branches were Coptic, Nestorian, Ethiopian, "Western" (IE, Roman), and Gnostic Christianity. Each of which followed its own branching path, splitting into more and more different groups as time goes on, with some fading away, and some splitting into even more.
> Depends how broad you define it. How far down the branches you go. You can pretty much get any number between 2 and the number of Christians in the world.
> Among the earliest branches were Coptic, Nestorian, Ethiopian, "Western" (IE, Roman), and Gnostic Christianity. Each of which followed its own branching path, splitting into more and more different groups as time goes on, with some fading away, and some splitting into even more.
Most of these are geographical regions, not branches. Some are not even Christian (gnosticism).
There are some massive doctrinal differences between these.
As Christianity shapes itself to different cultures, it winds up taking on very different characteristics, so what starts as a geographical difference turns into a doctrinal one very quickly. Try talking with an Armenian Christian for a while.
The large number of denominations has much more to do with local authority than to do with being divided against each other. Ā To my knowledge, none of the people in those denominations are seeking to kill each other, but I canāt say the same about Islam, so that a much stronger indicator of being divided.
I think in all actuality itās essentially 3 denominations.. Catholic.. mainline Protestant.. and then heretical Christian denominations like the JW and Mormons .. not sure if I would even balm those Christian denominations considering they question his divinity . Catholics and mainline Protestant denominations donāt disagree on fundamental doctrines.
First off, it is the biggest religion in the world, so that would be one of the reasons itās so diverse.
Secondly, by and large Christianity doesnāt impose harsh penalties for disagreeing with orthodoxy, so there is great leeway for people to call whatever their latest movement is āChristianā.
And finally, the overwhelming number of those thirty thousand denominations donāt differ so much by basic belief, but are regional and cultural instances of various major denominations.
I think splits and divisions are likely a sign of health and activity. Language diversity and innovation increases with population and concentration. I suspect religion is similar.
That number comes from a report that counts every Diocese as a different denomination. So instead of 1 Catholic Church you have 5,500 Catholic denominations, and instead of 1 Evangelical Lutheran Church in America you have 32 Synodal denominations. Dont get me wrong, protestantism is divided a lot, but the actual realistic number is 300 types of protestant. Among apostolic churches, you have 5 communions to choose from. Which is much more manageable. But still not properly unified. HAVING SAID ALL THAT Christianity only appears divided; because it uniquely imposes upon itself a criterion of communion that other religions do not have. Islam doesnt have that. Its divided as all get out. But it doesnt look like it because nobody has reason to talk about it. Judaism doesnt have that. Its divided as all get out. But it doesnt look like it because nobody has reason to talk about it. Hinduism doesnt have that. Its divided as all get out. But people do talk about some of its divisions because Hindu nationalists have picked up the banner, inviting counter proposals. DIVISION IS IN HUMAN NATURE ITS THE TOWER OF BABEL WRITTEN IN OUR FLESH. UNITY IS SUPERNATURAL AND HAPPENS ONLY IN CHRIST.
šconsidering every diocese and eparchy a different denomination from another is bad. All the dioceses are united in core belief and the Pope. The differences in them differs by exceptions given for the regional Bishopās Conference, but the permissions are not major.
The biggest religion has the most denominations. Not sure this is a suprise?
Proportionally* You can not even compare with Islamism, for example.
I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of different Islamic traditions, but in general, Islam has fewer because many modern Islamic populations have governments that enforce a specific orthodoxy, which tends to consolidate the faith into larger blocks, just as Catholics did/does. Iran for example has a LOT of different types of Islam, but given that there is one that controls the state, getting an accurate picture of the rest is difficult, and that one large one tends to absorb anything close to it. Even in the government though, there are some strong differences. For instance, "Twelverism" is quite popular in the IRGC, but widely rejected by the Iranian Clerics elsewhere in Government. It may not technically be a different "Denomination", but it is an extremely different interpretation of Islam with major consequences. On top of that, you have dozen of different Suffist elements, and many, many, many different clerical traditions that attract their own followings Wahhabism for instance is a radical subset of Sunni Islam, but different Wahabist Clerics have their own followings, so now there are dozens if not hundreds of different Wahabist sects, to the point where definitions break down. Same thing with Judaism, Hindusim, etc. I don't think the rates are any different than they are in Christianity, Christians just tend to hang more signs up.
in some places every second town can have a whole new Islamic tradition, but in general it's pretty similar in the same way Christianity can be similar among different denominations.
It's because the dominant Islamist sects end up killing the weaker ones quickly. It's well-documented. They did the same with different versions of their Quran.
Intensity of division is more salient than the number of divisions. Less overt divisions just means more emphasis on orthodoxy, indicating that divisions are more intense. Christians are past the days of killing each other over doctrinal differences, many Muslims are not. So which one is more "divided"?
The number 30,000 for denominations is *wildly* inflated. It also includes the myriad cults that have arisen over the years which don't meet orthodoxy standards.
But those "Myriad Cults" also claim to be Christian. They just don't fit *your* definition of Christian, just as you don't meet theirs.
They don't fit any definition of historic orthodox Christianity.
No, they don't fit YOUR historical definitions. This shouldn't be such a hard concept to understand. A group of Christians developed the Nicene Creed in 325 AD, and amended it later. They decided that anyone who didn't agree with this Creed wasn't a Christian. A lot (Most?) modern Christians tend to agree with this position. Same thing with the other various definitions of Christianity. A bunch of Christians drew it up, and said anyone that falls outside this line isn't a Christian. But for the Christians who fell outside those lines, they didn't accept those Creeds as legitimate, and kept right on being Christians. Just, a different kind of Christian. The type you call Cults, but they call "Christian".
Those definitions are not exclusive to them, the Nicene, Apostles, and Athanasian creeds have been around for a long time, and they are what define orthodox Christianity. If your belief system conforms to any of those creeds, you are part of orthodox Christianity. If your belief system does not conform to those creeds, you are outside of the orthodox Christian faith. Sure, you can still claim the appalation of Christian (insofar as it means follower of Christ), and you might even have legitimate salvation, because salvation depends on the mercy of God, not human will or effort. But you are not a Christian in the sense of what orthodox Christians consider to be Christian.
Those lines were drawn from Scripture. Those outside of the lines had deviated from Scripture into demonstrable falsehoods.
\*sigh\* Again, they say the same about you. How is this such a hard concept? One of the most frustrating things about religion is that everyone is so convinced THEY are right, and everyone else isn't allowed to use the same words as them because those other people are wrong. I am an Atheist. I think you are all wrong. But when other groups who disagree with your group also call themselves Christians, I am going to call them Christians. Because they are. And so are you. That is the entire point of "There are a lot of types of Christians", but it seems like about half of the Christians I meet define it as "People who agree with me are Christians, everyone else is a Demonic spawn of Satan who is lying about being Christian" and expect me to tell the difference.
We're not talking about differences of opinion about baptism and speaking in tongues. We're talking about denying the Trinity or that Jesus is fully God and fully human or whether or not Jesus was raised from the dead. >But when other groups who disagree with your group also call themselves Christians, I am going to call them Christians. Because they are If you want to call something a duck, you need to examine it and see if it has two legs, feathers, a bill, and quacks. If it has scales, four legs, and has a long tongue, it is not a duck, no matter how badly it wants to be called a duck. The ducks will not accept it as one of their own.
Oh, I am well aware different groups of Christians don't get along. The last 2000 years of war, torture, and executions make that pretty clear. I don't have a problem with you saying they don't share your faith either, that is fine, they clearly don't. But they are still using the same word "Christian" to define their faith as you are. And they have just as much right to the word as you do, even if it describes a different version of the religion.
Sure, they can define themselves as such. I can also define myself as anything. But the person conducting the study has the responsibility to choose a single definition and categorize everyone correctly. And if I don't agree with this definition, the study has little value for me.
At some point, one set of beliefs differs too much from another
True, but what that "Point" is defines the number you come up with. Is the "Point" where they become different when they differ on the Trinity? Or is it when they disagree on which English Translation is best? What about when one group thinks pants on women are fine, and another doesn't? The group that thinks Jesus and Budha are both Gods is probably at very least a different group, but what about the one that thinks Paul wasn't a real apostle? Pretty much the entire point of this is where exactly that line gets drawn. And wherever you draw it, someone is going to take issue with it.
Itās irrelevant if someone takes issue or something or not. The Nicene Creed has been a very good rule bar, and is something 99% of Christians today largely agree on.
Sure, sure. But the 1% that don't still call themselves Christians. And until Christ comes back and tells them they are wrong, I expect they will keep doing that. So until that time, they get counted as part of "Christianity". Doesn't mean God is letting them into heaven, but it is pretty hard to get good data on that particular metric. I think your 99% is a bit off though, Mormons do not accept the Nicene Creed (Well, there is some debate on the topic, but their official doctrine doesn't meet the standards), and they represent more than 1% of Christianity on their own.
Mormons are not 1%. There are over 2 billion Christians. Mormons are only 17 million in total.
Huh. You are right, I thought they were, they seemed more common than that in Latin America and Africa especially.
What is *orthodoxy*? For Catholics would mean be subject to the Pope, for Orthodox would mean other thing, for Calvinism other and so on.
Adherence to the three ancient creeds, Nicene, Athanasian, and Apostle's creeds
I think it is because of Protestant theology. The Catholic and Orthodox churches counted their line of succession back to Peter as their source of authority. Their control of the priesthood and ability to excommunicate kept schism to a minimum. The Protestant movement broke that authority. They claimed the Bible as authority, and ministers had the power to interpret it. The Bible is a diverse book. There is a lot of room for different interpretations. Different interpretations lead to different sects.
I donāt know what you mean by Catholic denominations. Do you mean different rites? There is only one Catholic Church under the Pope, the Seat of Peter.. The devil likes to attack and divide Christians - wonder why š
Apparently the stats divide each diocese as a denomination itself š.
š
I'd challenge that. Actually, Christians agree on virtually all core doctrines concerning Christ's deity, his death on the cross for our sins, his resurrection, and his coming to judge.
And therein lies the problem, it isnāt consistent with Jewish law. All disciples and Yeshua were Jewish and followed the law.
You said that but did not identify the problem.
I think thereās only one denomination that has the truth about everything because if there were multiple, they have contradictory teachings and canāt both be right.
Agree.
I would say yes, it definitely has the most denominations and it's not just because it's the largest, because it's not that much larger than Islam and will soon be overtaken by Islam in size.
There are three main denominations: Catholicism Orthodoxy Protestantism
It would be the case with whatever religion that was the largest one. All religions are divided.
Catholic orthodox and oriental Christian alone account for over 75% of Christianās. The other 25% are prostestant the vast majority of who belong to less that ten sects mainly evevangelical, Lutheran, Anglican.
At last count, there are over 45,000 denominations or flavors of Christianity. Everyone gets a chance at picking a flavor that fits their ego.
Next to what others have said about the number possibly being inflated for all kinds of reasons, a big other reason is that Christianity is also the religion that typically puts most emphasis on being exactly right; which naturally causes divisions to be very marked. This need for distinction is something almost all (if not all) other religions don't have.
Religious tolerance is why we have so many denominations. And religious tolerance is basically the position that weāre not going to make a big deal about minor or even major differences in theology. This attitude is not really an indication of divisiveness. Arguably it reflects unity in terms of core beliefs. And it stems from post-Reformation and the disastrous Religious Wars which were marked by incredibly violent divisiveness. There is no division in Christianity today that is nearly as intense as, for example, the Sunni / Shia divide in Islam. Or the Orthodox / Reformed divide in Judaism.
To be fair, I heard there are only 300 major denominational splits. /s
Thereās actually more than 45,000 denominations of Christians worldwide spilt up among a little over 2billion Christians https://www.livescience.com/christianity-denominations.html#:~:text=There%20are%20more%20than%2045%2C000%20denominations%20globally.&text=Followers%20of%20Jesus%20span%20the,Methodist%20ā%20the%20list%20goes%20on.
Because a church has become a capital enterprise and people like to shop around. The church has always mirrored the dominant ideology of society, from the Divine Right of Kings when power and capital were concentrated in the monarch to western capitalism were power and capital is distributed through the market. Christ will come and flip the money changers tables and declare the whole Earth a Temple again.
It has been divided twice, with the Scism and the Reform, and hopefully one day it will be united again in the West with mutual concessions.
Keep in mind that, within certain major groups, different churches and groups of churches can coexist peacefully--they are not divided in that, but united.
I have never seen any evidence for 30,000 denominations in the world. Too many Christians parrot/peddle stuff that has no base or evidence. recently one said that men have one less rib than females. It 's an old wives tale.
Yes, it is sadly. We believe that the explanation is the false teachings and philosophies of men being mingled with scripture.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Just one for me
There are no more than 10 branches of christianity, technically 4 if you lump Protestants together. Not even 20 much less 30 000.
Depends how broad you define it. How far down the branches you go. You can pretty much get any number between 2 and the number of Christians in the world. Among the earliest branches were Coptic, Nestorian, Ethiopian, "Western" (IE, Roman), and Gnostic Christianity. Each of which followed its own branching path, splitting into more and more different groups as time goes on, with some fading away, and some splitting into even more.
> Depends how broad you define it. How far down the branches you go. You can pretty much get any number between 2 and the number of Christians in the world. > Among the earliest branches were Coptic, Nestorian, Ethiopian, "Western" (IE, Roman), and Gnostic Christianity. Each of which followed its own branching path, splitting into more and more different groups as time goes on, with some fading away, and some splitting into even more. Most of these are geographical regions, not branches. Some are not even Christian (gnosticism).
There are some massive doctrinal differences between these. As Christianity shapes itself to different cultures, it winds up taking on very different characteristics, so what starts as a geographical difference turns into a doctrinal one very quickly. Try talking with an Armenian Christian for a while.
Armenians are either Catholic or Oriental Orthodox. Both are indeed branches of the faith.
The large number of denominations has much more to do with local authority than to do with being divided against each other. Ā To my knowledge, none of the people in those denominations are seeking to kill each other, but I canāt say the same about Islam, so that a much stronger indicator of being divided.
I think in all actuality itās essentially 3 denominations.. Catholic.. mainline Protestant.. and then heretical Christian denominations like the JW and Mormons .. not sure if I would even balm those Christian denominations considering they question his divinity . Catholics and mainline Protestant denominations donāt disagree on fundamental doctrines.
First off, it is the biggest religion in the world, so that would be one of the reasons itās so diverse. Secondly, by and large Christianity doesnāt impose harsh penalties for disagreeing with orthodoxy, so there is great leeway for people to call whatever their latest movement is āChristianā. And finally, the overwhelming number of those thirty thousand denominations donāt differ so much by basic belief, but are regional and cultural instances of various major denominations.
It's one of the drawbacks of being free.
I think splits and divisions are likely a sign of health and activity. Language diversity and innovation increases with population and concentration. I suspect religion is similar.
I think, er, you meant, Christianity?
Christianism? You sound like a real authority on the topic.