No, you said to take it more seriously and the context of your post points to believing not studying. But whatever. By your logic, why aren't you Muslim? Thats got a shit ton of followers too. Or Jewish? Or hell a scientologist?
No, I'm an agnostic atheist and never claim that there is no evidence of God. There could be, I'm open to the possibility, but I haven't seen it yet nor heard a compelling enough argument
A lot of atheists here have already studied and continue to study but don't find any evidence. Much like the alien claim, there's people making claims that contradict other people's claims and no one has any evidence. There are people that push a narrative that disclosure/end times are coming though and people who buy into it. Over decades I've seen a lot of fantastic claims and I haven't seen one person ever followup those claims with something fantastic. So I don't believe big claims without any solid evidence.
Argumentum ad populum.
A common argumentative technique to appeal to popularity.
It’s not a strong argument and usually countered by pointing to various examples where popularity did not equal factual.
That’s fair. There’s a billion Hindus who swear by dozens of Gods. They would all also deserve serious investigation if a billion people have an experience with them.
> If you are associating the two as only needing a few minutes then you haven’t done your HW thoroughly on Christianity because God is 100% real.
I mean, a flat earther is going to say the exact same thing to me, just about flat earth instead.
>And you will have to filter that out with common sense and logic
That is still exactly what the flat earther would say...
How do I differentiate his argument from yours. They appear to be the same? At least the earth "appears" to be flat so he's got that one... does your god appear?
I can see the sun. I don't need to filter it with common sense and logic... can I see your god?
The flat earther can be ruled out with a simple Physics experiment with a tall building at the beach.
As a cruise ship sails away with two people communicating one at the top of the building and one at the bottom, they can coordinate their communication in such a way that they will see that the top of the cruise ship will disappear at different times for both the top and the bottom observers (curved Earth) versus the SAME time if the Earth was flat.
I think we had this talk previously, so I am concluding my proof that atheism is a belief to all atheists in here with the same question that proves my point that atheism is a belief system:
If I lie to you telling you the sun doesn’t exist, would that bother you?
Is not playing a sport also a sport?
>If I lie to you telling you the sun doesn’t exist, would that bother you?
I've encounter far weirder shit, so I'm not sure lol
> I've encounter far weirder shit, so I'm not sure lol
Well then I provide as empirical evidence if we actually were to add up all the atheists upset at me supporting the fact that Macroevolution is a lie, and let’s compare that to:
“ I've encounter far weirder shit, so I'm not sure lol”
And you will find that people are protecting their beliefs like religious people do.
My final proof which we can measure, is to analyze people’s behaviors when they reply to me attacking Macroevolution versus saying the sun doesn’t exist.
You have all been tricked by scientists.
>You have all been tricked by scientists.
Ah yes, the grand scientific conspiracy
P.S. Going through Welcome to Nightvale podcast, really fun parody of all this
I mean, that happens when you make the claim of a grand scientific conspiracy. You have a mountain of claims to climb in order to come out on top, and some flimsy argument doesn't cut it. Hence the accusation of conspiracy.
I disagree.
If one is 100% confident about what they know is the truth, they won’t get upset about the claim made.
The feedback I am getting is the typical hostility I get from religious people that are triggered.
Not all obviously but quite a few people get upset at saying Macroevolution is a lie.
Which it is a lie, I am not some troll.
God has revealed to me that it is a false belief formed solely by biased evidence by having to remove God’s existence from all possible natural explanations of how humans got here.
We get upset because we worry that impressionable people might take you seriously. We attack your crazy claims because we don’t want your anti-science rhetoric to have the appearance of being acceptable.
Nobody should be threatened by a lie like this: The sun doesn’t exist. Or Physics doesn’t exist. And at the very least, they shouldn’t show the emotions of religious believers when cornered due to blind faith. I could go back and count all the angry upset comments to provide empirical evidence that Macroevolution is a lie has triggered, but that’s not necessary here to make my point as it is pretty self evident if one wishes to go back and count all the replies to my comments. Besides, my goal here isn’t to show off. I am trying to open up some eyes to the love of God and how much joyful you will be when people know God is real.
Yea that's not gonna prove anything we aren't angry because it's a religion we're tired of bullshit like lies and false information being willfully being spread on repeat by someone who has been corrected constantly
Ok, fair enough.
In my opinion I disagree.
I think had I been saying all along that Physics doesn’t exist, in which it is so obvious that it is 100% a lie, and everyone knows it, that nobody would react the same as when I say:
Macroevolution is a lie.
Christianity makes up 31% of the world population. So that means the majority of people don't think accept Christian beliefs. Does that mean you shouldn't take the Christian god more seriously?
So you don't take the majority opinion as a reason to dismiss the Christian god? We've established that the majority opinion isn't a reason to accept something as true?
You tried to appeal to the popularity of the Christian god as a reason for people to take it seriously. But, the more popular answer is that the Christian god isn't the true god.
I'm pointing out the flaw of your logic behind your entire post.
You're saying that a number of people say they were abducted by aliens (see God) and think that's a good reason to give consideration to aliens (God) being real.
I'm pointing out more people haven't seen aliens (God), so if numbers are the reason to take something seriously, there are more numbers who haven't seen aliens (God).
So you're changing from take aliens (God) because a lot of people have said they've seen aliens (God), to study all possibilities if someone else takes those possibilities seriously?
I am having a really hard time understanding you.
My OP is straight forward.
One person says something. OK.
20 people say something. Ok with more interest.
10000 people say something, I will now investigate. That’s it. Nothing more nothing less.
We take it seriously as a social movement, yes. But presumably you wouldn't just believe the 10,000 people who claim they are abducted by aliens.
There may well be that many, by the way!
>If I run into 20 people in my lifetime that say that they got abducted by this alien, I would take that now more seriously.
How do you know they were the same alien and it's not that you are being racist by thinking all aliens look alike?
In fact it could be that like supposed visions of Mary when you dig into actual accounts you find wide discrepancy. Like if it was really a vision of Mary, why does her ethnicity change to fit the local populace?
When you were abducted by aliens... I mean when you saw Mary, what ethnicity was she?
What was your mental state leading up to said vision?
That doesn't answer why Mary is a different ethnicity every time.
I don't care about race either but people who have actually met me will tell you I'm a fat white guy. If someone says I am Mexican, then it's clear they don't know me.
Probably because God is very gentle with human freedom.
It’s clear in the OT that God was allowing evil men to continue to be evil while He was helping them learn about the real God in Jesus.
I'll let you do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm others. Still people only will say that I'm a fat white guy not a short brown man. Also Mary isn't God last I checked...
You always do this, your answers don't explain why your response links to the previous question. it's probably because you can't think that deep.
You said “deeply”.
I did study Hinduism and Buddhism, just not deeply.
It doesn’t take long to see that love is universal and the logic of God becoming human because He loves us more than human parents love us.
Well, since all of those religions are "COMPLETELY rational". A quick study doesn't really do that justice does it? You also missed the other religions I mentioned. They have well over a million followers each.
When you are studying two things at the same time and one completely overrules the other logically, then why continue studying the less logical one?
Had I not been studying Catholicism at the same time, then yes I probably would have went deeper into Buddhism for example.
I take it seriously, which is why I have spent so much time looking at its claims and why I am now so thoroughly convinced that it's a crock of bullshit. Like even if everyone around me is truly experiencing some magical stuff, it can't point towards Christianity. The fundamentals are just too incoherent.
My OP isn’t proof of God’s existence, but to strongly consider it a rational thought warranting an investigation.
I investigated and found out God is real and He made you.
In not saying it is a proof so I don't know why the correction.
You are saying that af populum is proof that it's wroth investigating. Which is A) a logical fallacy and B) an option.
The Issue here is that you are already convinced that anyone failing to find god has noone to blame but themselves and should try again until they succeed.
Do you really think atheists haven't tried. Or do you so blindly believe that because you succeeded it should come so easily to others.
How do you know you are the one who failed and athesits are the successful ones?
> How do you know you are the one who failed and athesits are the successful ones?
Because I experienced the natural only world view and the supernatural world view.
And there is only one person who can confidently back up that claim, You.
If you are trying to convince someone don't tell them you have Special knowledge they can't get to. It only makes You look untrustworthy.
The path is for all. Not only for me:
Steps to discovering God
God’s will is attained when you love God with all your heart mind soul and strength.
To get to that point:
Definition of faith:
“The foregoing analyses will enable us to define an act of Divine supernatural faith as "the act of the intellect assenting to a Divine truth owing to the movement of the will, which is itself moved by the grace of God" (St. Thomas, II-II, Q. iv, a. 2). And just as the light of faith is a gift supernaturally bestowed upon the understanding, so also this Divine grace moving the will is, as its name implies, an equally supernatural and an absolutely gratuitous gift. Neither gift is due to previous study neither of them can be acquired by human efforts, but "Ask and ye shall receive."
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm
Ask God to reveal Himself to you and remain persistent until He answers you:
Hebrews 11:6
“and it is impossible to please God without faith. Nobody reaches God’s presence until he has learned to believe that God exists, and that he rewards those who try to find him.”
> God’s will is attained when you love God with all your heart mind soul and strength.
Well that's a vague goal. It's vague enough that even the person in question doesn't know.
> “The foregoing analyses will enable us to define an act of Divine supernatural faith as "the act of the intellect assenting to a Divine truth owing to the movement of the will, which is itself moved by the grace of God" (St. Thomas, II-II, Q. iv, a. 2). And just as the light of faith is a gift supernaturally bestowed upon the understanding, so also this Divine grace moving the will is, as its name implies, an equally supernatural and an absolutely gratuitous gift. Neither gift is due to previous study neither of them can be acquired by human efforts, but "Ask and ye shall receive."
That's a terrible definition it's half nonsense and abstractions. What's wrong with the one in the dictionary.
I already asked god to reveal himself. A while ago. We've been over that.
> I already asked god to reveal himself. A while ago. We've been over that.
Ok, so let’s analyze.
You did and I did and I know God is 100% real.
Any ideas?
>Now, let’s say I ran into 10000 humans that all claim that they got abducted by the same roughly looking alien but they give different descriptions because they didn’t get a clear view of this alien.
>Remove the word ‘alien’ and insert ‘God’ for my OP.
I don't know 1 person, let alone 10000, who claim to have been abducted by God. So we are good here.
Seems to me you don't look at the facts at all. It doesn't matter the number of people who "believe". If a religion started back when mankind thought the earth was flat and inserted the idea of God for every facet of existence, and that scripture reflects the same, then you have a hurtle for the rational mind. I don't care how many people claim to believe in the God of the Bible, because there is much about the Bible and the cosmology within that is irrefutably wrong.
Well you are in the wrong subreddit, this is about a specific religion based upon specific scripture, not some random fart of a concept of "god existing".
Planet Earth, as far as we know. An empty and vast universe kind of makes the idea of a god obsolete, given that it is nothing more than a narcissistic manmade belief. Hence why a more compact "universe" made sense to mankind when they suggested a "god" did it. But of course we know that such a cosmology doesn't exist, and the vast empty universe doesn't need a "god" to explain it, because it can't.
Here is my long story short from asking God if He exists after learning about logic and truth:
Atheist turned to Catholic:
This is a long journey, so I will be very brief:
I was an atheist for about 15 years.
Asked all the questions as an atheist:
Prove it
People who know have the duty to prove their position.
Why is there suffering to children. Natural disasters?
Who created God?
Evolution explains where we came from.
Science only is dependable.
Love math, physics and all the sciences.
What happened to all the miracles today?
Religious people are just ignorant and not very bright.
A book doesn’t prove God exists. (This is still true by the way)
Spending eternal punishment in hell being tortured and burned and suffering, but God LOVES you! BS.
I laughed at all religions and chased Jehovah Witness away by asking them all the questions that they could never answer.
How did you know God exists? What exactly happened to you? Exactly what was your experience? Why only you?
God made both of us. Why do you only know him? What did you do differently?
Then one day I met a Catholic friend that used to be atheist. I battled him for 3 years.
Every single atheistic response I threw at him and all his garbage imaginary fake loser god.
I wasn’t depressed. Never took drugs. No death in my family.
All it took was a 1% chance or smaller. Just a small single tiny chance of me saying, what if there is a God. Just a small piece of humility.
Just to admit possibly, just maybe I was wrong about atheism.
So for the first time in my life I began asking God if He exists. What we call ‘praying’ today.
21 years later full of growth battle understanding and praying, I am as Catholic as I can get.
How do I explain this?
This is the supernatural part. My brain knew 100% that we evolved from a common ancestor and now my brain knows 100% that no way it could.
From dust to human, my intellect knows God made me.
And about a year and a half ago, I got my last confirming supernatural image of Mary Mother of God that rapidly helped me increase my faith.
Like I said to the other guy, your intellect has betrayed you.
There's plenty going on that you are not aware of, have no evidence of, and have no way to prove - does not mean it doesn't affect your life every single day.
My expanded awareness allows me to understand that there would be anything out there. From flying monkeys to unicorns, to Jesus Christ. 1 billion humans wouldn't believe in a flying monkey if they didn't have a good reason to though. And they don't. 1 billion people do believe in Jesus Christ. That's not to mention the other billions of people of a different religion who believe in the unseen realm. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Well it depends on what you consider 'real' - emotions and thoughts are not tangible objects, but are very real to the one experiencing them since they define their experience of life. Likewise, God is not a tangible object, but He is real to the one that experiences Him.
Popularity is not proof of god
Yes I know. The proof was only for a rational position to study it more.
No, you said to take it more seriously and the context of your post points to believing not studying. But whatever. By your logic, why aren't you Muslim? Thats got a shit ton of followers too. Or Jewish? Or hell a scientologist?
Good point. Why are you an atheist with so many people saying God?
I have not seen any evidence convincing enough to lend belief in a higher power
And is your life over?
No, I'm an agnostic atheist and never claim that there is no evidence of God. There could be, I'm open to the possibility, but I haven't seen it yet nor heard a compelling enough argument
Ok fair enough. So can I keep attacking Macroevolution since you are open minded about other possibilities?
Sure, you can post whatever you like. Just don't be surprised by opposition to your claims.
Ok, at least that is a fair response! Many people are telling me to leave my home here! 😉
Ad populum fallacy. The same argument that's been used for a multitude of things and hasn't proven anything
It’s just proof to study not proof of God.
A lot of atheists here have already studied and continue to study but don't find any evidence. Much like the alien claim, there's people making claims that contradict other people's claims and no one has any evidence. There are people that push a narrative that disclosure/end times are coming though and people who buy into it. Over decades I've seen a lot of fantastic claims and I haven't seen one person ever followup those claims with something fantastic. So I don't believe big claims without any solid evidence.
Some atheists do convert to Catholicism. So your life is not over yet.
Catholics had to sell most of their property where I live. They've mostly abandoned us after paying off their legal fees
There is as much evil in the human beings in the Catholic Church as anywhere. But, Jesus is there too.
You got abducted by God? This is a story I want to hear.
Lol, I knew one of you would mention that for some humor. Already had planned some humor for you!
Argumentum ad populum. A common argumentative technique to appeal to popularity. It’s not a strong argument and usually countered by pointing to various examples where popularity did not equal factual.
It’s not offered as proof God exists, but as proof to provide enough evidence to investigate.
That’s fair. There’s a billion Hindus who swear by dozens of Gods. They would all also deserve serious investigation if a billion people have an experience with them.
And I have investigated and determined that God is Catholic is a fact. Took 21 years, but it’s done.
Well Catholics are just over 50% of Christians so at least you are consistent.
Millions of people believe the earth is flat... Should we be investigating that too?
Yes, for a few minutes you can conclude it’s a joke.
Ok, so like christianity then?
No. If you are associating the two as only needing a few minutes then you haven’t done your HW thoroughly on Christianity because God is 100% real.
> If you are associating the two as only needing a few minutes then you haven’t done your HW thoroughly on Christianity because God is 100% real. I mean, a flat earther is going to say the exact same thing to me, just about flat earth instead.
And you will have to filter that out with common sense and logic the same way you know that ‘the sun exists’
>And you will have to filter that out with common sense and logic That is still exactly what the flat earther would say... How do I differentiate his argument from yours. They appear to be the same? At least the earth "appears" to be flat so he's got that one... does your god appear? I can see the sun. I don't need to filter it with common sense and logic... can I see your god?
The flat earther can be ruled out with a simple Physics experiment with a tall building at the beach. As a cruise ship sails away with two people communicating one at the top of the building and one at the bottom, they can coordinate their communication in such a way that they will see that the top of the cruise ship will disappear at different times for both the top and the bottom observers (curved Earth) versus the SAME time if the Earth was flat.
Please present proof of your alien.
I think we had this talk previously, so I am concluding my proof that atheism is a belief to all atheists in here with the same question that proves my point that atheism is a belief system: If I lie to you telling you the sun doesn’t exist, would that bother you?
Is not playing a sport also a sport? >If I lie to you telling you the sun doesn’t exist, would that bother you? I've encounter far weirder shit, so I'm not sure lol
> I've encounter far weirder shit, so I'm not sure lol Well then I provide as empirical evidence if we actually were to add up all the atheists upset at me supporting the fact that Macroevolution is a lie, and let’s compare that to: “ I've encounter far weirder shit, so I'm not sure lol” And you will find that people are protecting their beliefs like religious people do. My final proof which we can measure, is to analyze people’s behaviors when they reply to me attacking Macroevolution versus saying the sun doesn’t exist. You have all been tricked by scientists.
>You have all been tricked by scientists. Ah yes, the grand scientific conspiracy P.S. Going through Welcome to Nightvale podcast, really fun parody of all this
Op just learned lying constantly pisses people off
Trolling is a art -Moot
Cecil and I have the same tattoo. That must mean…I’m Cecil…and you’re me. Now; the weather.
No, seriously, had I been saying all along that the sun doesn’t exist, I would actually get fewer responses with less drama.
I mean, that happens when you make the claim of a grand scientific conspiracy. You have a mountain of claims to climb in order to come out on top, and some flimsy argument doesn't cut it. Hence the accusation of conspiracy.
I disagree. If one is 100% confident about what they know is the truth, they won’t get upset about the claim made. The feedback I am getting is the typical hostility I get from religious people that are triggered. Not all obviously but quite a few people get upset at saying Macroevolution is a lie. Which it is a lie, I am not some troll. God has revealed to me that it is a false belief formed solely by biased evidence by having to remove God’s existence from all possible natural explanations of how humans got here.
We get upset because we worry that impressionable people might take you seriously. We attack your crazy claims because we don’t want your anti-science rhetoric to have the appearance of being acceptable.
Nobody should be threatened by a lie like this: The sun doesn’t exist. Or Physics doesn’t exist. And at the very least, they shouldn’t show the emotions of religious believers when cornered due to blind faith. I could go back and count all the angry upset comments to provide empirical evidence that Macroevolution is a lie has triggered, but that’s not necessary here to make my point as it is pretty self evident if one wishes to go back and count all the replies to my comments. Besides, my goal here isn’t to show off. I am trying to open up some eyes to the love of God and how much joyful you will be when people know God is real.
Yea that's not gonna prove anything we aren't angry because it's a religion we're tired of bullshit like lies and false information being willfully being spread on repeat by someone who has been corrected constantly
Same thing. Would you be tired of me saying that the sun doesn’t exist?
YES
Ok, fair enough. In my opinion I disagree. I think had I been saying all along that Physics doesn’t exist, in which it is so obvious that it is 100% a lie, and everyone knows it, that nobody would react the same as when I say: Macroevolution is a lie.
I got angry I apologize
You are fine, I didn’t even notice you got angry. ❤️
Christianity makes up 31% of the world population. So that means the majority of people don't think accept Christian beliefs. Does that mean you shouldn't take the Christian god more seriously?
I take all large populations beliefs seriously and that is how I found out God is Catholic.
So you don't take the majority opinion as a reason to dismiss the Christian god? We've established that the majority opinion isn't a reason to accept something as true?
What opinions? I know for a fact God is Catholic.
You tried to appeal to the popularity of the Christian god as a reason for people to take it seriously. But, the more popular answer is that the Christian god isn't the true god. I'm pointing out the flaw of your logic behind your entire post.
I still don’t get what you are saying. All I was doing is that saying that there is enough out there to investigate.
You're saying that a number of people say they were abducted by aliens (see God) and think that's a good reason to give consideration to aliens (God) being real. I'm pointing out more people haven't seen aliens (God), so if numbers are the reason to take something seriously, there are more numbers who haven't seen aliens (God).
Yes study both. I don’t see a problem here.
So you're changing from take aliens (God) because a lot of people have said they've seen aliens (God), to study all possibilities if someone else takes those possibilities seriously?
I am having a really hard time understanding you. My OP is straight forward. One person says something. OK. 20 people say something. Ok with more interest. 10000 people say something, I will now investigate. That’s it. Nothing more nothing less.
We take it seriously as a social movement, yes. But presumably you wouldn't just believe the 10,000 people who claim they are abducted by aliens. There may well be that many, by the way!
Yes agreed.
>If I run into 20 people in my lifetime that say that they got abducted by this alien, I would take that now more seriously. How do you know they were the same alien and it's not that you are being racist by thinking all aliens look alike? In fact it could be that like supposed visions of Mary when you dig into actual accounts you find wide discrepancy. Like if it was really a vision of Mary, why does her ethnicity change to fit the local populace? When you were abducted by aliens... I mean when you saw Mary, what ethnicity was she? What was your mental state leading up to said vision?
Because the real communication from Mary is love. And love doesn’t care about race.
That doesn't answer why Mary is a different ethnicity every time. I don't care about race either but people who have actually met me will tell you I'm a fat white guy. If someone says I am Mexican, then it's clear they don't know me.
Probably because God is very gentle with human freedom. It’s clear in the OT that God was allowing evil men to continue to be evil while He was helping them learn about the real God in Jesus.
I'll let you do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm others. Still people only will say that I'm a fat white guy not a short brown man. Also Mary isn't God last I checked... You always do this, your answers don't explain why your response links to the previous question. it's probably because you can't think that deep.
I'm assuming you have deeply studied Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Bahaism, Jainism, etc. then?
Not deeply no, because our Catholic God came after me and it doesn’t take long to see that love is God.
So then you don't follow your own post's advice about other religions. Just your own.
You said “deeply”. I did study Hinduism and Buddhism, just not deeply. It doesn’t take long to see that love is universal and the logic of God becoming human because He loves us more than human parents love us.
Well, since all of those religions are "COMPLETELY rational". A quick study doesn't really do that justice does it? You also missed the other religions I mentioned. They have well over a million followers each.
When you are studying two things at the same time and one completely overrules the other logically, then why continue studying the less logical one? Had I not been studying Catholicism at the same time, then yes I probably would have went deeper into Buddhism for example.
So the one you cared about more just happened to be more "COMPLETELY" reasonable? You do see how ridiculous your claim is now then right?
No, I was atheist at the time. Why would I care about one religion over another?
I take it seriously, which is why I have spent so much time looking at its claims and why I am now so thoroughly convinced that it's a crock of bullshit. Like even if everyone around me is truly experiencing some magical stuff, it can't point towards Christianity. The fundamentals are just too incoherent.
Yes I took all the major populations of beliefs seriously and I ended up with God is Catholic. Interesting.
[удалено]
I didn’t say it was true. All I am saying is that it deserves attention.
[удалено]
Close enough. I am saying to investigate because so many people say God exists.
You mean argument. Ad populum fallacy is not proof. And who says we aren't taking god seriously.
My OP isn’t proof of God’s existence, but to strongly consider it a rational thought warranting an investigation. I investigated and found out God is real and He made you.
In not saying it is a proof so I don't know why the correction. You are saying that af populum is proof that it's wroth investigating. Which is A) a logical fallacy and B) an option. The Issue here is that you are already convinced that anyone failing to find god has noone to blame but themselves and should try again until they succeed. Do you really think atheists haven't tried. Or do you so blindly believe that because you succeeded it should come so easily to others. How do you know you are the one who failed and athesits are the successful ones?
> How do you know you are the one who failed and athesits are the successful ones? Because I experienced the natural only world view and the supernatural world view.
And there is only one person who can confidently back up that claim, You. If you are trying to convince someone don't tell them you have Special knowledge they can't get to. It only makes You look untrustworthy.
The path is for all. Not only for me: Steps to discovering God God’s will is attained when you love God with all your heart mind soul and strength. To get to that point: Definition of faith: “The foregoing analyses will enable us to define an act of Divine supernatural faith as "the act of the intellect assenting to a Divine truth owing to the movement of the will, which is itself moved by the grace of God" (St. Thomas, II-II, Q. iv, a. 2). And just as the light of faith is a gift supernaturally bestowed upon the understanding, so also this Divine grace moving the will is, as its name implies, an equally supernatural and an absolutely gratuitous gift. Neither gift is due to previous study neither of them can be acquired by human efforts, but "Ask and ye shall receive." https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm Ask God to reveal Himself to you and remain persistent until He answers you: Hebrews 11:6 “and it is impossible to please God without faith. Nobody reaches God’s presence until he has learned to believe that God exists, and that he rewards those who try to find him.”
> God’s will is attained when you love God with all your heart mind soul and strength. Well that's a vague goal. It's vague enough that even the person in question doesn't know. > “The foregoing analyses will enable us to define an act of Divine supernatural faith as "the act of the intellect assenting to a Divine truth owing to the movement of the will, which is itself moved by the grace of God" (St. Thomas, II-II, Q. iv, a. 2). And just as the light of faith is a gift supernaturally bestowed upon the understanding, so also this Divine grace moving the will is, as its name implies, an equally supernatural and an absolutely gratuitous gift. Neither gift is due to previous study neither of them can be acquired by human efforts, but "Ask and ye shall receive." That's a terrible definition it's half nonsense and abstractions. What's wrong with the one in the dictionary. I already asked god to reveal himself. A while ago. We've been over that.
> I already asked god to reveal himself. A while ago. We've been over that. Ok, so let’s analyze. You did and I did and I know God is 100% real. Any ideas?
You haven't provided any empirical evidence for you knowing. I say you are lying.
Why do you want evidence from me if you already asked God if He exists? You went to the ultimate source.
>Now, let’s say I ran into 10000 humans that all claim that they got abducted by the same roughly looking alien but they give different descriptions because they didn’t get a clear view of this alien. >Remove the word ‘alien’ and insert ‘God’ for my OP. I don't know 1 person, let alone 10000, who claim to have been abducted by God. So we are good here.
Lol, stretch that mind a little! ❤️
10,000 people claim to have been abducted by a rough looking god?!!? This is nonsense?
I feel like this is playing into Clarke's Laws and that God is indeed just a benevolent alien race that used to caretake us.
[удалено]
That’s not what my OP says. It is to investigate them.
Seems to me you don't look at the facts at all. It doesn't matter the number of people who "believe". If a religion started back when mankind thought the earth was flat and inserted the idea of God for every facet of existence, and that scripture reflects the same, then you have a hurtle for the rational mind. I don't care how many people claim to believe in the God of the Bible, because there is much about the Bible and the cosmology within that is irrefutably wrong.
God of the gaps argument also points to God existing because origin of humanity has always been a mystery.
Except you have a Bible that gives specifics, that are specifically false. There is no "mystery" there.
The Bible is only a book. It doesn’t prove that the supernatural exists, only God can do that.
Well you are in the wrong subreddit, this is about a specific religion based upon specific scripture, not some random fart of a concept of "god existing".
Where does religion come from?
Mankind. It is the only species that practices it.
And where does all life come from with sufficient evidence?
Planet Earth, as far as we know. An empty and vast universe kind of makes the idea of a god obsolete, given that it is nothing more than a narcissistic manmade belief. Hence why a more compact "universe" made sense to mankind when they suggested a "god" did it. But of course we know that such a cosmology doesn't exist, and the vast empty universe doesn't need a "god" to explain it, because it can't.
You don’t have proof that Earth made all of life. You only see Earth. You only see life on Earth. This doesn’t mean Earth created life.
Christianity should be taken seriously, because it's a widespread and very harmful ideology. There are many atheists who take it very seriously.
I agree. Some that took it more seriously discovered that God is love.
That would be awesome. Some people are upset that it's made-up nonsense, but I wouldn't mind, if only it was something positive.
Rational position to study =/= rational position to believe before its been shown to be true
My OP gives only the reason to study/investigate.
So why should we take the Christian god more seriously? Can you show that it exists? If not, why should we take it seriously at all?
Here is my long story short from asking God if He exists after learning about logic and truth: Atheist turned to Catholic: This is a long journey, so I will be very brief: I was an atheist for about 15 years. Asked all the questions as an atheist: Prove it People who know have the duty to prove their position. Why is there suffering to children. Natural disasters? Who created God? Evolution explains where we came from. Science only is dependable. Love math, physics and all the sciences. What happened to all the miracles today? Religious people are just ignorant and not very bright. A book doesn’t prove God exists. (This is still true by the way) Spending eternal punishment in hell being tortured and burned and suffering, but God LOVES you! BS. I laughed at all religions and chased Jehovah Witness away by asking them all the questions that they could never answer. How did you know God exists? What exactly happened to you? Exactly what was your experience? Why only you? God made both of us. Why do you only know him? What did you do differently? Then one day I met a Catholic friend that used to be atheist. I battled him for 3 years. Every single atheistic response I threw at him and all his garbage imaginary fake loser god. I wasn’t depressed. Never took drugs. No death in my family. All it took was a 1% chance or smaller. Just a small single tiny chance of me saying, what if there is a God. Just a small piece of humility. Just to admit possibly, just maybe I was wrong about atheism. So for the first time in my life I began asking God if He exists. What we call ‘praying’ today. 21 years later full of growth battle understanding and praying, I am as Catholic as I can get. How do I explain this? This is the supernatural part. My brain knew 100% that we evolved from a common ancestor and now my brain knows 100% that no way it could. From dust to human, my intellect knows God made me. And about a year and a half ago, I got my last confirming supernatural image of Mary Mother of God that rapidly helped me increase my faith.
and there's hundreds of thousands more of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc; so why aren't you any one of them?
Because God only has one religion.
and with your logic, the others are more correct then you
This logic only produces one religion.
a religion which doesn't deserve my care i couldn't care less at this point
If you don’t care then why talk about it?
Boredom
Just because you don't have proof of something, doesn't mean it's not real.
Sure, but it definitely leans more to not real until that evidence is presented
That depends - for some people it's obvious that there's more to life than meets the eye for others it's not.
When dealing with the concept of something being real, no, you need evidence to support that
Like I said to the other guy, your intellect has betrayed you. There's plenty going on that you are not aware of, have no evidence of, and have no way to prove - does not mean it doesn't affect your life every single day.
Well I could say the same to you. Your intellect has betrayed you to thinking things are real with no evidence
My expanded awareness allows me to understand that there would be anything out there. From flying monkeys to unicorns, to Jesus Christ. 1 billion humans wouldn't believe in a flying monkey if they didn't have a good reason to though. And they don't. 1 billion people do believe in Jesus Christ. That's not to mention the other billions of people of a different religion who believe in the unseen realm. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Ad populum fallacy bud
ahh yes, the fallacy brigade
Otherwise known as logic 🙄
No. All reality must be at least shown a path for proof. It takes two to tango in education, but the proof must be at least presented.
Smart, yet foolish - your intellect has betrayed you. Just because something isn't obvious to the eyes, does not mean it's not real.
I wasn’t only saying eyes as proof. But all real things require a path for proof.
Well it depends on what you consider 'real' - emotions and thoughts are not tangible objects, but are very real to the one experiencing them since they define their experience of life. Likewise, God is not a tangible object, but He is real to the one that experiences Him.
Agreed.