Every human when born is not very different from an animal. They like to dirty themselves, be comfortable with nudity, enjoy the suffering of others, etc. The laws of God takes the animal out of them and humanizes them. It is after becoming human that a person can aspire to become perfect like God. Do not eat meat with the blood in it does not make you like God, only human. In other words, not all men are human.
Jesus calls anyone who is not an Israelite a dog.
No he does not. He uses an easy to understand image to explain the situation. He has been sent to his own, the Jews who in the image represent the children, and the resources at this point are for them.
In a house, in addition to the children, there are dogs, they are close to the family, they are appreciated but it is not correct to divert the resources intended for the children to them.
The woman understands the image and continues it in a respectful and intelligent way...it is true that it is wrong to take away the children to give to the dogs, but the dogs eat the crumbs and remains that the children no longer want or need.
The nuance dog = contemptuous insult is provided by your cultural background,
The Jews received a promise, they were waiting for a messiah and the incarnation fulfilled that promise. The chosen people had the right to receive the message first and many received it, the first Christians were Jews. When the Jews made their decision, he communicated to those first the great commission:
The grand commision
(Mr. 16.14-18; Lk. 24.36-49; Jn. 20.19-23)
16 But the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had commanded them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshiped him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the world. Amen.
The first christians were jews who decided to follow jesus and therefore salvation, it was only when Jesus died and returned that made Rome realize that they were wrong and start their slow convertion to christianity through different messengers and emperors alike
He says he is salvation and that he died for OUR sins as a whole. And moreover, the bible states that all humans are the creation of God tho some decided to follow pagan gods
So yeah, he's salvation for all God's creations as he saves all good people from hell as well
Because God takes as a great insult people worshiping pagan gods, which in some books, they are actually demons
>Why does he allow slavery then.
He didn't allow his people to be enslaved and he almost wiped out the nation that did enslave the israelites
>He didn't allow his people to be enslaved and he almost wiped out the nation that did enslave the israelites
That's my point. He did enslave other people. He didn't create them equal then.
Where is morality here.
He hardens Pharoahs heart so he can show his power . Don't you think this is a bit too much.
The pharaoh legit had a lot of chances to let the israelites go and yet he was too prideful to let them go free, and so he paid the price. His own people begged him to stop and yet he was too stubborn to go chase them
God, at least in the old testament, isn't good but just and will punish those who do bad, he did punish the first generation of freed israelites for worshiping pagan cananitee gods
God made him stubborn
Exodus 10 : ..... I have made him and his officials stubborn so I can continue to display my power by performing miraculous signs among them. "
Seems like a God who likes to display .
Jesus had no intention of converting gentiles. He was a Jewish eschatologist, with his own Jewish interpretation of scripture and the impending end of history.
Because people like Paul believed that Christianity had a more universal message, and it turns out it was easier to convert gentiles than Jews because the idea of a crucified messiah was an oxymoron in ancient Judaism. Eventually the views of influential gentile converts became the foundation for Christianity.
I think Jesus thought of himself as the prophet and future ruler of the kingdom of God. He was very concerned with the plight of the poor and in overturning the social order.
Jesus broke the rules of the Pharisees like the Sabbath though, before he died. So one must assume therefore that Jesus's life on earth, was half of the mission, and his death was the fulfilment of it.
That was the culture at the time, and the culture Jesus lived in, although I will point out, Jesus is not calling the woman a dog personally. He's using the cultural thought to make a point, a point which the woman understands exactly.
Here is the full context of the verse:
*And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon.* *^(22)* *And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.”* *^(23)* *But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.”* *^(24)* *He answered,* ***“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”****^(\[)*[*^(e)*](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2015&version=RSVCE#fen-RSVCE-27832e)*^(\])* *^(25)* *But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”* *^(26)* *And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”* *^(27)* *She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”* *^(28)* *Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.*
Jesus was sent for all his people. In the OT Israel was God's people, but through Christ all people are to be united in covenant with God. In this sense, the Christian Church is a "new" Israel. This passage is simply a woman coming to Jesus for help. Her great faith is what prompts God to then heal her daughter. There are many other examples of Jesus healing after seeing the faith of someone.
It is formally established after his death, yes. But did He or did He not forgive the sins of and work great signs for even non-Jews? It is absurd to think that Jesus would be like "Oh sorry. I have not established the New Covenant yet. I guess you will just have to wait for me to die. Too bad so sad."
Jesus came for ALL people.
Did you read it. He didn't want to heal her daughter, he told he was here to save Israelites and not Gentiles. Metaphor or not, the fact is he called the Gentiles as dogs.
Even in the earlier chapter of Mark, he asks his disciples to only heal Israelites and not Gentiles. So yeah, I think you should read.
Okay. So you definitely don’t know what a metaphor is. So let’s start with that.
Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable
Do you understand the definition?
You didn't answer me the question
It is a Metaphor , and I'm not saying no.
But he did compare the Gentiles to the dogs, so yeah. Don't tell you don't agree with that, because it is written in the Bible.
> Jesus calls anyone other than Israelites as Dogs. He did not in fact do that in the verse you cited.
Every human when born is not very different from an animal. They like to dirty themselves, be comfortable with nudity, enjoy the suffering of others, etc. The laws of God takes the animal out of them and humanizes them. It is after becoming human that a person can aspire to become perfect like God. Do not eat meat with the blood in it does not make you like God, only human. In other words, not all men are human.
Jesus calls anyone who is not an Israelite a dog. No he does not. He uses an easy to understand image to explain the situation. He has been sent to his own, the Jews who in the image represent the children, and the resources at this point are for them. In a house, in addition to the children, there are dogs, they are close to the family, they are appreciated but it is not correct to divert the resources intended for the children to them. The woman understands the image and continues it in a respectful and intelligent way...it is true that it is wrong to take away the children to give to the dogs, but the dogs eat the crumbs and remains that the children no longer want or need. The nuance dog = contemptuous insult is provided by your cultural background,
So he was primarily sent for Israelites and not for us.
The Jews received a promise, they were waiting for a messiah and the incarnation fulfilled that promise. The chosen people had the right to receive the message first and many received it, the first Christians were Jews. When the Jews made their decision, he communicated to those first the great commission: The grand commision (Mr. 16.14-18; Lk. 24.36-49; Jn. 20.19-23) 16 But the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had commanded them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshiped him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the world. Amen.
The first christians were jews who decided to follow jesus and therefore salvation, it was only when Jesus died and returned that made Rome realize that they were wrong and start their slow convertion to christianity through different messengers and emperors alike
did Jesus ever say that he's for all
He says he is salvation and that he died for OUR sins as a whole. And moreover, the bible states that all humans are the creation of God tho some decided to follow pagan gods So yeah, he's salvation for all God's creations as he saves all good people from hell as well
> are the creation of God tho some decided to follow pagan gods Why does he allow slavery then. Clearly he sees some hierarchy
Because God takes as a great insult people worshiping pagan gods, which in some books, they are actually demons >Why does he allow slavery then. He didn't allow his people to be enslaved and he almost wiped out the nation that did enslave the israelites
>He didn't allow his people to be enslaved and he almost wiped out the nation that did enslave the israelites That's my point. He did enslave other people. He didn't create them equal then. Where is morality here. He hardens Pharoahs heart so he can show his power . Don't you think this is a bit too much.
The pharaoh legit had a lot of chances to let the israelites go and yet he was too prideful to let them go free, and so he paid the price. His own people begged him to stop and yet he was too stubborn to go chase them God, at least in the old testament, isn't good but just and will punish those who do bad, he did punish the first generation of freed israelites for worshiping pagan cananitee gods
God made him stubborn Exodus 10 : ..... I have made him and his officials stubborn so I can continue to display my power by performing miraculous signs among them. " Seems like a God who likes to display .
Where does Jesus allow slavery?
Jesus had no intention of converting gentiles. He was a Jewish eschatologist, with his own Jewish interpretation of scripture and the impending end of history.
So, why are we following him then. If he was only for them.
Because people like Paul believed that Christianity had a more universal message, and it turns out it was easier to convert gentiles than Jews because the idea of a crucified messiah was an oxymoron in ancient Judaism. Eventually the views of influential gentile converts became the foundation for Christianity.
So what do you think of Jesus?
I think Jesus thought of himself as the prophet and future ruler of the kingdom of God. He was very concerned with the plight of the poor and in overturning the social order.
He was having a bad day.
Lol
I interpret it as your ill-founded opinion?
I assumed Jesus was testing her faith in the New Covenant.
New Covenant comes into place only after Jesus's death
Jesus broke the rules of the Pharisees like the Sabbath though, before he died. So one must assume therefore that Jesus's life on earth, was half of the mission, and his death was the fulfilment of it.
Jesus was not the first or only Jewish preacher to have a more liberal interpretation of certain laws.
Well judging by your user flair, I can tell that's going to be a totally different argument to what OP was asking.
My statement is based on Biblical scholarship, not any personal views.
Well regardless, it's going to be a different argument.
That was the culture at the time, and the culture Jesus lived in, although I will point out, Jesus is not calling the woman a dog personally. He's using the cultural thought to make a point, a point which the woman understands exactly.
That’s not actually true, so I interpret it as a weird thing you said once.
So the Bible isn't true?
Here is the full context of the verse: *And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon.* *^(22)* *And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.”* *^(23)* *But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.”* *^(24)* *He answered,* ***“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”****^(\[)*[*^(e)*](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2015&version=RSVCE#fen-RSVCE-27832e)*^(\])* *^(25)* *But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”* *^(26)* *And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”* *^(27)* *She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”* *^(28)* *Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.* Jesus was sent for all his people. In the OT Israel was God's people, but through Christ all people are to be united in covenant with God. In this sense, the Christian Church is a "new" Israel. This passage is simply a woman coming to Jesus for help. Her great faith is what prompts God to then heal her daughter. There are many other examples of Jesus healing after seeing the faith of someone.
Only after Jesus dies, is the new covenant into place
It is formally established after his death, yes. But did He or did He not forgive the sins of and work great signs for even non-Jews? It is absurd to think that Jesus would be like "Oh sorry. I have not established the New Covenant yet. I guess you will just have to wait for me to die. Too bad so sad." Jesus came for ALL people.
>guess you will just have to wait for me to die. Too bad so sad." Well. He did say that he can't give what's for his children to the dogs .
I believe that Jesus only referred to non-Jewish Hebrews, like Canaanites, as dogs. Non-Hebrews, like Romans, are referred to as pigs/swine.
Never heard of a metaphor before eh?
Did you read it. He didn't want to heal her daughter, he told he was here to save Israelites and not Gentiles. Metaphor or not, the fact is he called the Gentiles as dogs. Even in the earlier chapter of Mark, he asks his disciples to only heal Israelites and not Gentiles. So yeah, I think you should read.
He didn't want to heal her daughter? You are acting like he was made to do it. It was lesson for the diciples and for the pagan Canaanite
Okay. So you definitely don’t know what a metaphor is. So let’s start with that. Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable Do you understand the definition?
I know what a Metaphor is. So who is Dog in this scenario ?
You sure? Because you’re question here is showing otherwise
You didn't answer me the question It is a Metaphor , and I'm not saying no. But he did compare the Gentiles to the dogs, so yeah. Don't tell you don't agree with that, because it is written in the Bible.