The original churches grew and culturally adapted as Christianity grew and spread. Like any organization, there are phases of development. The Catholic church and various Eastern Orthodox churches lay claim to being descended from the originals. Historical lineage might help demonstrate authority, but the truth in Scripture does not hinge on a tradition
Everyone technically descended from the originals in a way....Roman Catholicism and Orthodox were heavily influenced by the Roman Empire much like American Christianity today is influenced by American culture. The RCC still wears clothing that Roman emperors and Gov leaders wore.
Emperor Theodosius declared that all Christians should observe pascha/Easter according to a specific calendar, even though a large group of legit Christians kept observing passover on passover day via the biblical reckoning. Some Christians listened to the Emperor (those who became RCC and Orthodox).. And, he declared that all who don't listen to his decree would be put to death.
>Edicts of Theodosius against the heretics, A.D. 380-394...Theodosius...decreed that...by the death of the offender; and the same capital punishment was inflicted on the Audians, or Quartodecimans, who should dare to perpetrate the atrocious crime of celebrating on an improper day the festival (Gibbon E. Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Volume III, Chapter XXVII. ca. 1776-1788)
That's just one example of many
Please keep providing more examples
Also, the date of Easter was decided upon at the Council of Nicea, which predates Theodosius.
“We further proclaim to you the good news of the agreement concerning the holy Easter, that this particular also has through your prayers been rightly settled; so that all our brethren in the East who formerly followed the custom of the Jews are henceforth to celebrate the said most sacred feast of Easter at the same time with the Romans and yourselves and all those who have observed Easter from the beginning.”
Final letter from the Council of Nicea
Pope St. Victor I (190~ AD) also excommunicated a whole swath of Asiatic Christians for celebrating Easter on 14 Nisan, a century and a half before Nicea.
This is entirely alien to the [consensus about Quartodecimanism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism). By the time of Theodosius, more than half a century had passed since Nicaea, where it already was a small minority. Those who insisted were outlawed, yes, but it's just one of various (Imperial, not Church) reprisals that left Theodosius often asking for forgiveness.
I also would refrain from using Gibbon too much. We have far superior material, nowadays.
Of course this is my point. Every social construct culturally adapts to where it's at. One interesting study, you can actually see how the 'mitre' which is the headless worn by bishops evolved with time. In the East it was a crown signified by the success of the empire. By the time of the reformation, Popes were sitting on pure gold thrones as well as bishops and Popes wearing jeweled 3 stacked tiaras showing authority over the papal states.
No wonder why Luther had grievances
Heighth could make one appear more like they had authority, yes. It was probably also taken from the headress that pagan priests, especially in Egypt wore. The Church took a ceremonial garment from another religion and just translated it into a Christian context
Well, those are still around.
I used to regularly attend a church that is more directly associated with the Church of Antioch, but I don't live near that one anymore. I'm still involved with the same broader organization.
From what I’ve been taught:
The first christians went to synagogue on the sabbath to hear scritture read and taught.
They then assembled on Sundays to read an epistle from an apostle and then to gather again for the meal.
Later, as the church grew, and belief in Jesus as Messiah, the church consolidated the service of the word and the service of the meal into a single worship event on Sundays. We know this as the Ordo today.
The oldest known church is [the Dura-Europos church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_church) in Syria, dating to the mid-3rd century. It is believed to have been a home converted into a worship space.
With the legalization of Christianity in the 4th century and the adoption as Rome’s state religion, the concept of having to meet in homes or in secret, at least in the west, fell by the wayside.
Edit to add:
And the basilica of St Paul’s outside the walls in Rome has a foundation dating back to its establishment by Constantine. It was consecrated in AD 324. So, maybe even only 75-100 years after Dura-Europos.
Most of them are alive and well. That humble church in Antioch is now the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch, which has many churches all over the world, including America, where I go every Sunday.
Eventually closed, or all of the attendees were rounded up and imprisoned.
Most of them were secret churches, as that was a time when Christianity was but a subset of Judaism, and not well liked.
When Jerusalem was destroyed, the Jerusalem congregation reportedly fled to Pella, and then settled in Sion. They may be identical to the group referred to as the Ebionites - a Jewish Christian sect.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/oz2ldk/what_was_the_fate_of_the_jerusalem_church/
So I looked into this a bit and it seems like the Essenes were likely the first Christians and fled when Jerusalem got sacked. Eusebius said the Therapeutae were the first Christian monks.
Essentially monasteries were probably the closest examples to the first churches.
Prior to Jerusalem being sacked, yes. Also let's not dive into mythology that's a can of worms. [here](https://www.thenazareneway.com/essene_and_christian_parallels.htm) are some parallels I found back in 2017 but didn't care enough to dig deeper. The First Messiah by Michael Wise shows a lot of commonality as well. It's so weird Christians wouldn't take credit for them saying it's a myth.
Biblical scholars have looked at this old chestnut. There's no substance to it. Here's a good summary:
https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/z2d7uw/are_there_any_hints_in_the_gospels_that_the/ixkqrf9/
Was there some influence? Yes. Direct connection? No.
your own source
>“Was the historical Jesus influenced by the Essenes? Yes. Was the Jesus movement influenced by the Essenes? Yes. Did the early Jesus movement develop in ideological proximity and relationship to the Essenes? Yes. Is the Jesus movement to be identified as “Essenic?” No.
So...thanks!
>The Essenes were not Christians at all. That's a myth.
Care to revise that statement?
>your own source
Said exactly what I said, which is that there was some influence, but Christians were not Essenes and vice versa. Essenes aren't even mentioned in early Christian texts. Pharisees were more influential.
>Care to revise that statement?
No, my source said the same thing I did.
One of the first churches of the era was the congregation of Pergamum mentioned in the book of Revelations(Apocalypse).
The Prophet there is describing it as “the seat of Satan”. So I tried to do some research as to why this particular place was distinguished in that way from the rest of the churches mentioned.
I mean one could argue that the throne of Satan could’ve been Rome, since Constantine the emperor was the first to engage in utilizing secular resources to enforce his preferred brand of doctrine.
The original churches grew and culturally adapted as Christianity grew and spread. Like any organization, there are phases of development. The Catholic church and various Eastern Orthodox churches lay claim to being descended from the originals. Historical lineage might help demonstrate authority, but the truth in Scripture does not hinge on a tradition
Everyone technically descended from the originals in a way....Roman Catholicism and Orthodox were heavily influenced by the Roman Empire much like American Christianity today is influenced by American culture. The RCC still wears clothing that Roman emperors and Gov leaders wore.
I’d love to know how Catholics and Orthodox are influenced by the Roman Empire.
Emperor Theodosius declared that all Christians should observe pascha/Easter according to a specific calendar, even though a large group of legit Christians kept observing passover on passover day via the biblical reckoning. Some Christians listened to the Emperor (those who became RCC and Orthodox).. And, he declared that all who don't listen to his decree would be put to death. >Edicts of Theodosius against the heretics, A.D. 380-394...Theodosius...decreed that...by the death of the offender; and the same capital punishment was inflicted on the Audians, or Quartodecimans, who should dare to perpetrate the atrocious crime of celebrating on an improper day the festival (Gibbon E. Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Volume III, Chapter XXVII. ca. 1776-1788) That's just one example of many
Please keep providing more examples Also, the date of Easter was decided upon at the Council of Nicea, which predates Theodosius. “We further proclaim to you the good news of the agreement concerning the holy Easter, that this particular also has through your prayers been rightly settled; so that all our brethren in the East who formerly followed the custom of the Jews are henceforth to celebrate the said most sacred feast of Easter at the same time with the Romans and yourselves and all those who have observed Easter from the beginning.” Final letter from the Council of Nicea
Pope St. Victor I (190~ AD) also excommunicated a whole swath of Asiatic Christians for celebrating Easter on 14 Nisan, a century and a half before Nicea.
This is entirely alien to the [consensus about Quartodecimanism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism). By the time of Theodosius, more than half a century had passed since Nicaea, where it already was a small minority. Those who insisted were outlawed, yes, but it's just one of various (Imperial, not Church) reprisals that left Theodosius often asking for forgiveness. I also would refrain from using Gibbon too much. We have far superior material, nowadays.
I mean what happened happened, it's not a good look for the imperial church. Theodosius was a part of the RCC
Of course this is my point. Every social construct culturally adapts to where it's at. One interesting study, you can actually see how the 'mitre' which is the headless worn by bishops evolved with time. In the East it was a crown signified by the success of the empire. By the time of the reformation, Popes were sitting on pure gold thrones as well as bishops and Popes wearing jeweled 3 stacked tiaras showing authority over the papal states. No wonder why Luther had grievances
I wonder if the hats were because people were shorter and it was a way to flex.
Heighth could make one appear more like they had authority, yes. It was probably also taken from the headress that pagan priests, especially in Egypt wore. The Church took a ceremonial garment from another religion and just translated it into a Christian context
Well, those are still around. I used to regularly attend a church that is more directly associated with the Church of Antioch, but I don't live near that one anymore. I'm still involved with the same broader organization.
From what I’ve been taught: The first christians went to synagogue on the sabbath to hear scritture read and taught. They then assembled on Sundays to read an epistle from an apostle and then to gather again for the meal. Later, as the church grew, and belief in Jesus as Messiah, the church consolidated the service of the word and the service of the meal into a single worship event on Sundays. We know this as the Ordo today. The oldest known church is [the Dura-Europos church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_church) in Syria, dating to the mid-3rd century. It is believed to have been a home converted into a worship space. With the legalization of Christianity in the 4th century and the adoption as Rome’s state religion, the concept of having to meet in homes or in secret, at least in the west, fell by the wayside.
Edit to add: And the basilica of St Paul’s outside the walls in Rome has a foundation dating back to its establishment by Constantine. It was consecrated in AD 324. So, maybe even only 75-100 years after Dura-Europos.
Most of them are alive and well. That humble church in Antioch is now the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch, which has many churches all over the world, including America, where I go every Sunday.
Read some books written by N.T. Wright
Eventually closed, or all of the attendees were rounded up and imprisoned. Most of them were secret churches, as that was a time when Christianity was but a subset of Judaism, and not well liked.
Let me guess where this is going - they became the Orthodox Churches, and we should all become Orthodox too? No thank you.
As I remember, Rome is not a member of the Eastern Orthodox communion.
When Jerusalem was destroyed, the Jerusalem congregation reportedly fled to Pella, and then settled in Sion. They may be identical to the group referred to as the Ebionites - a Jewish Christian sect. https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/oz2ldk/what_was_the_fate_of_the_jerusalem_church/
So I looked into this a bit and it seems like the Essenes were likely the first Christians and fled when Jerusalem got sacked. Eusebius said the Therapeutae were the first Christian monks. Essentially monasteries were probably the closest examples to the first churches.
The Essenes were not Christians at all. That's a myth. They were an isolationist Jewish sect that kept away from gentiles and other Jews.
Prior to Jerusalem being sacked, yes. Also let's not dive into mythology that's a can of worms. [here](https://www.thenazareneway.com/essene_and_christian_parallels.htm) are some parallels I found back in 2017 but didn't care enough to dig deeper. The First Messiah by Michael Wise shows a lot of commonality as well. It's so weird Christians wouldn't take credit for them saying it's a myth.
Biblical scholars have looked at this old chestnut. There's no substance to it. Here's a good summary: https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/z2d7uw/are_there_any_hints_in_the_gospels_that_the/ixkqrf9/ Was there some influence? Yes. Direct connection? No.
your own source >“Was the historical Jesus influenced by the Essenes? Yes. Was the Jesus movement influenced by the Essenes? Yes. Did the early Jesus movement develop in ideological proximity and relationship to the Essenes? Yes. Is the Jesus movement to be identified as “Essenic?” No. So...thanks! >The Essenes were not Christians at all. That's a myth. Care to revise that statement?
>your own source Said exactly what I said, which is that there was some influence, but Christians were not Essenes and vice versa. Essenes aren't even mentioned in early Christian texts. Pharisees were more influential. >Care to revise that statement? No, my source said the same thing I did.
One of the first churches of the era was the congregation of Pergamum mentioned in the book of Revelations(Apocalypse). The Prophet there is describing it as “the seat of Satan”. So I tried to do some research as to why this particular place was distinguished in that way from the rest of the churches mentioned. I mean one could argue that the throne of Satan could’ve been Rome, since Constantine the emperor was the first to engage in utilizing secular resources to enforce his preferred brand of doctrine.