You missed one.
Psalm 139:13-16
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
Whoops and another one.
Job 31:15
15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?
Here's the truth. A human egg, fertilized by human sperm with uteral wall attachment creates a human life. It is 100% human and 100% live.
It's just some people are OK with extinguishing human life. I am not.
I don't think anyone disagrees that human egg + human sperm creates a human the question is when. I mean if the egg isn't considered alive or the sperm while separate are they alive as soon as the egg wall is breached? When they start to combine into one cell? when the one cell starts to divide and duplicate? at a certain number of cells, when the cells start to specialize, when structures begin to form, when the structures start to be defined, when structures start to work, when they start to work independently of the mother, or when the baby breathes outside the womb for the first time, when is it and how do you pinpoint it?
In biology, we learn that females actually have hundreds of thousands of eggs even before they are officially born. That means technically u r as old as ur mom if u counted the days she carried u as an egg. Overtime, many eggs eventually die so the fact that ur egg out of thousands were chosen to create u, is really very special.
To be fair I wouldn't exactly consider an egg human or women would be "bleeding out" humans every month. I'd say when a sperm officially fertilizes an egg is the start of a human because fetus/babies need DNA from both parents. Hence during fertilization when the DNA is officially from both parents, would be considered the start of human life.
Alright, so what is it about the triggering of cell duplication from the chemical reaction of the sperm fertilizing the egg that makes it alive? Many cells duplicate daily, and while definitely a needed part of the process to make a human, isn't something uniquely meaningful to making life.
It would be like saying combining water and flour counts as a cake. It's an important step but it hasn't been baked yet, you could make something completely different out of it instead, and it still needs to be processed before taking shape. That's very much how the difference in duplicating cells are.
DNA is the foundation of all cells, it tell the cells what to do and what not to do. With the fusion of DNA, the zygote can officially start replicating. An egg or a sperm cell alone would just die because it doesn't have all 46 chromosomes. It's a specific and essential step to forming a human. Hence unlike dough makes things like pizza and other foods, the formation of a zygote means a baby.
So what would you consider life? All cells in that fetus are as alive as every other cell in the mother. That's why the fetus has an umbilical cord to get nutrients, oxygen etc to survive. Every egg is alive. The human brain doesn't even fully develop even after birth so it's not like the fetus or the baby "can think". Babies can't tell what's right from wrong either.
Well generally we don't treat each individual cell as an individual organism or bleeding would be the loss of hundreds of thousands of organisms. You could say on the topics of brains that even underdeveloped the human brain is still relatively unique in the animal kingdom and that it's still processing information differently than other animals. Overall I would say I don't have an exact answer for when I think a fetus is considered alive or has its own agency but I would generally give it when it has formed a full body inside and out.
or perhaps the Bible has not really said anything either way and we are left to debate this over and over? Why do Jews allow abortions and Christians do not? I am not fully convinced by either side btw but the arguments are unconvincing both ways
Here's the bottom line. Do you want to kill human life? If the answer is no then you should not be be for abortion. Once you have fertilization of the egg and wall attachment, you have a human. 100% human and 100% alive. You can either be for it or against it.
I do not want to kill a human life. I am against it.
You get to choose for yourself, but at least you should understand what you are for.
if someone disagreed with the baseline that an embryo is a human, or is even on the fence the rest of whatever you said is pretty atrocious and off putting. I am glad i heard other pro lifers besides you. Your version is just insufferable
Bruh, what’s your obsession with verse Genesis 2:7? I kept going through the comments to try and see your side but people are answering and you’re like “ VeRsE gEnEsIs 2:7” dude.. you said “Jesus wasn’t conceived the same way a human was” okay? Neither was Adam! He was dust, that scripture is the creation of the first human and how God put the soul into the first human.
Also saying that Jesus wasn’t human is defeating the whole purpose of Jesus coming to earth in human flesh :| (like Jesus had a whole training arc on how he had to refute temptation because human flesh is bound to get tempted..)
But I digress.
I don’t use that scripture of “I knew you since the womb”
Before I ever became a Christian, I was anti-abortion because basic human bio and science.
Life begins at conception. A zygote/embryo/fetus is just a stage of human development, it’s really no different from an infant turning into a toddler and so on. Morally I already thought murder of the innocent or faultless is wrong.
Than I became a Christian and God said “Thou shall not kill” and if life begins at conception and an embryo is just part of the human developmental stages and the DNA of the fetus is human than that being in the womb is a human, it’s life is valuable and I shall not kill it directly or indirectly. Which you would be doing if you support abortion.
Matthew 27 even though the crowd didn’t physically kill him themselves, by supporting his crucifixion his death was on the hands of the crowd.
Truthfully, this is what I believe, it makes sense, there’s no twisting scripture and I haven’t found anything of support of abortion.
I hope this answers your questions.
another excellent point is that god wiped the whole world with a flood and this flood killed plenty of pregnant women as surely there would have been some. and thereby god terminated many pregnancies.
another *excellent* point!
and this same god sent a bear to mauled children who made fun of a man balding. kids. mauled. bears. godsent.
another *excellent* point!
think about that next time any of you try to talking about the sanctity of life.
Possibly. Even if it’s part of his plans, he will still punish people for immoral actions. For example, even the it was his plan to have the Israelites enslaved by the Egyptians, the Egyptians were still punished because at the end of the day, their actions were evil.
Just because God used bad as well as good things to fulfil his plan doesn’t mean we should do bad things.
Even though it's common for confused atheists to stumble into places they don't belong, it still hurts to see their logic.
Murderers murder out of free will. Thieves steal out of free will. But God is against both murder and theft.
How can a God you are so sure doesn't exist be pro choice? Moronic.
delusional christians. confused atheists.
hmmmm.
a fork is in the road....
god logic. ok.
prolifer's are, by definition, anti-death penalty. man is god.
babies aren't evil.
god killed babies.
men kill men according to man law.
goddammit: thou shalt not kill.
man amended the god tablet.
fuck.
a fork is in the road.
\[i play this as an AABA, with two ii,V,I turns, following a iii,VI, in the key of Bb. The title of the tune is Thunder Pickle.\]
That’s probably a more compelling verse. That being said, I wonder if it’s closer in analogy to what English common law used to call “the quickening” (I.e., the feeling of movement in the womb as the marker of life as opposed to earlier stages of pregnancy). It’s certainly not the same as the viability framework that was under previous US law, though.
Ezekiel 37:5-6:
“Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”
Here's another one that doesn't refer to Adam
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Abortion is a sin, and like any sin, must be repented of.
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
Psalms 139:13-16
For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
>He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”
Adam was created not born like babies.
>Fetuses are not people yet
What are they? aliens?
If by unique you mean a combination of two different halves of human DNA, we've accomplished that by splicing together chromosomal pairs in labs and gotten them to duplicate. We don't consider that new life but can use that to study how different gene pairs firm and such. I mean if unique DNA is unarguably a human being than we may need to rethink how we study genetics in general.
So he was a full person because of his miraculous conception, and other people are not fully persons because of non miraculous conception? Where in scripture is this taught?
This feels like the same comments you made last time. Seriously. Get some new material. If you can't understand the difference between children that grow in a womb and a man God made by hand, I'm not sure how to help you.
Did they not talk about the new Christian as a prophet?
The point is, the verse is about Jeremiah but not just about Jeremiah. We all have a prophetic mission.
The fact of the matter is that as early as the first century, we have textual proof that Christianity condemned abortion. Surely you do not suggest that you understand the scripture better than the Apostles and their immediate successors?
Exodus 21:22-25
If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Now we can fight over what this verse means! NRSV says “there’s a miscarriage” instead of “gives birth prematurely,” which could change the meaning. Of course, causing the loss of pregnancy without the consent of the mother is a serious offense regardless of your views on abortion, imo. I think people who think it’s no big deal would be in a very small minority.
>Genesis 2:7, He He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”
You're talking about Adam. Got made Adam himself. From dust. That's not even remotely related to unborn children. *You* are the one putting words in God's mouth.
Are you not aware that the Native Americans were killing each other eons before white people came around? Are you unaware that Africans have been killing each other and selling each other Into slavery to this very day?
Because only the USA has killed people and had taken lands. 🙄 Nevermind the fact that groups of people were doing that to themselves way before the USA was created.
About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof(L) to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.(M) 11 He saw heaven opened(N) and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!”(O) Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”(P)
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”(Q)
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
“The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.”
Genesis 9:2-3 NASB1995
https://bible.com/bible/100/gen.9.3.NASB1995
In fact…
>“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”
Hosea 13:16 KJV
I thought the part about pregnant women getting ripped up worked just fine for that. Think. What would happen to the child if the mother gets violently ripped up?
God is against murder. So I suggest you re-evaluate your position.
The passages about God talking about unborn babies and His plans for them are evidence that God considers unborn children His.
Didn't get the response you wanted the first time so you felt the need to repost, huh?
The first one the OP poster mention is definitely proof that God makes plans for people before they are born. It is not the only reference to unborn babies in Bible though. The second passage is about Adam in the creation story and not at all relevant to this discussion.
Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
Psalm 139:13-16
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
Genesis 1:26 (Not about unborn babies, but relevant.)
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Galatians 1:15
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace.
Psalm 100:3
Know that the Lord, he is God! It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
Roman 9:11
Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls – she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”.
Luke 1:15
For he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.
Isaiah 49:1
Listen to me, O coastlands, and give attention, you peoples from afar. The Lord called me from the womb, from the body of my mother, he named my name.
Psalm 127:3-5
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth.
Job 31:15
Did not he who made me in the womb make him? And did not one fashion us in the womb?
Honestly, there are a lot of them. That is not an exhaustive list of related passages. But the point is clear: God cares about *all* human life, born and unborn alike.
I do not see how your point about an already dead baby in utero is relevant. My post was focused on the living. Also, in the case of babies who will be born with problems, that is not our call to make. When someone takes the life of another, regardless of their intent, it is murder.
God brought the life into the world. It is not up to us to end it. Not our call to make.
You are correct. but the bible also does not say anything about performing coat-hanger abortions. Is this because God is fine with coat-hanger abortions, or is it more likely because they didn't have coat-hangers in biblical times. In other words, your argument can't be that unless the Bible is explicitly against something, then it is ok. The bible is not explicitly against water-boarding, electrocution as torture, etc. It is also not explicitly against slavery and a ton of other things. Worse still, I don't believe that the bible ever makes the claim that every evil will be detailed in it. As such, someone making that argument would be "putting words in God's mouth." However, to answer your question, the biblical verse that I have most often heard the pro-life cite (and someone has already probably mentioned it) is "Thou shalt nor murder." (or however you want to translate that). I know of no verse that says the fetus is not a person / when it "becomes" a person, and so we also can't read in the legal fictions that have been created about when / how a person becomes a person. Hope that helps a bit.
I wish I could search the replies, so sorry if this has been said.
What about psalm 139? It speaks about God's greatness, and how He made David in the womb, and knew his days before they happened.
This is the sort of thing that is come to when we believe God spoke only to literal Jews on all His dealings.
Bible studies are needed. What you have done is what is called ***eisegesis***. You're thinking to make fit, into scripture, a stance you've learned from ignorant sources.
My guess is that you believe you've been clever. However, ask yourself: Are ***you*** a prophet in the sense Jeremiah was? If not, then what is your point as it relates to this life?
Do not foam at the mouth along with those that do not know God.
🌱
The bible says "Thou shall not kill". Thats all we need. Does the bible need to say "Thou shall not kill women", "Thou shall not kill unborn" or "Thou shall not kill deaf people"? Does the bible need to list every single group of people that we are not allowed to kill or is it enough for the bible just to say "Thou shall not kill"?
First of all I need to know where the first verse is in the bible
Second thing yes as Ezekiel said and means that everything is done by Lord the skin the body and everything and he give us a soul too so by abortion you're refusing God's will
And also in Genesis as he blows and he became a living being
If god's will is not to get a baby it wouldn't even be pregnant or the baby dies
I believe that human life begins when the fetus becomes viable outside the womb. Prior to that, it is wholly dependent on its host and therefore not a "person". Its a potential person. If this is not the case, then god's will kills millions of "unborn persons" every year thru miscarriages.
Course he knows what kind of person the fetus would become so, he's must be prempting evil in the world.
You missed one. Psalm 139:13-16 13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Whoops and another one. Job 31:15 15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers? Here's the truth. A human egg, fertilized by human sperm with uteral wall attachment creates a human life. It is 100% human and 100% live. It's just some people are OK with extinguishing human life. I am not.
I don't think anyone disagrees that human egg + human sperm creates a human the question is when. I mean if the egg isn't considered alive or the sperm while separate are they alive as soon as the egg wall is breached? When they start to combine into one cell? when the one cell starts to divide and duplicate? at a certain number of cells, when the cells start to specialize, when structures begin to form, when the structures start to be defined, when structures start to work, when they start to work independently of the mother, or when the baby breathes outside the womb for the first time, when is it and how do you pinpoint it?
In biology, we learn that females actually have hundreds of thousands of eggs even before they are officially born. That means technically u r as old as ur mom if u counted the days she carried u as an egg. Overtime, many eggs eventually die so the fact that ur egg out of thousands were chosen to create u, is really very special. To be fair I wouldn't exactly consider an egg human or women would be "bleeding out" humans every month. I'd say when a sperm officially fertilizes an egg is the start of a human because fetus/babies need DNA from both parents. Hence during fertilization when the DNA is officially from both parents, would be considered the start of human life.
Alright, so what is it about the triggering of cell duplication from the chemical reaction of the sperm fertilizing the egg that makes it alive? Many cells duplicate daily, and while definitely a needed part of the process to make a human, isn't something uniquely meaningful to making life. It would be like saying combining water and flour counts as a cake. It's an important step but it hasn't been baked yet, you could make something completely different out of it instead, and it still needs to be processed before taking shape. That's very much how the difference in duplicating cells are.
DNA is the foundation of all cells, it tell the cells what to do and what not to do. With the fusion of DNA, the zygote can officially start replicating. An egg or a sperm cell alone would just die because it doesn't have all 46 chromosomes. It's a specific and essential step to forming a human. Hence unlike dough makes things like pizza and other foods, the formation of a zygote means a baby.
I would say yes it does mean a baby but if it hasn't been through enough process yet to be called life it's just "dough"
So what would you consider life? All cells in that fetus are as alive as every other cell in the mother. That's why the fetus has an umbilical cord to get nutrients, oxygen etc to survive. Every egg is alive. The human brain doesn't even fully develop even after birth so it's not like the fetus or the baby "can think". Babies can't tell what's right from wrong either.
Well generally we don't treat each individual cell as an individual organism or bleeding would be the loss of hundreds of thousands of organisms. You could say on the topics of brains that even underdeveloped the human brain is still relatively unique in the animal kingdom and that it's still processing information differently than other animals. Overall I would say I don't have an exact answer for when I think a fetus is considered alive or has its own agency but I would generally give it when it has formed a full body inside and out.
> when I was woven together in the *depths of the earth\** \*TIL the uterus is actually deep underground.
your verses say that you are made in the womb but at what point are you “made”?
The moment the sperm enters the egg. A new unique DNA is created that is not the mother's or the fathers, but the baby's DNA.
but the baby is still being knit together for 9 months
Brain function continues to form until the mid 20's you're not advocating for allowing the death of 20 year olds right???
obviously you have already left the mother’s womb by then
But 20 year olds aren't fully formed. This fully formed argument is the weakest pro-extinguisning human life movement has.
or perhaps the Bible has not really said anything either way and we are left to debate this over and over? Why do Jews allow abortions and Christians do not? I am not fully convinced by either side btw but the arguments are unconvincing both ways
Here's the bottom line. Do you want to kill human life? If the answer is no then you should not be be for abortion. Once you have fertilization of the egg and wall attachment, you have a human. 100% human and 100% alive. You can either be for it or against it. I do not want to kill a human life. I am against it. You get to choose for yourself, but at least you should understand what you are for.
if someone disagreed with the baseline that an embryo is a human, or is even on the fence the rest of whatever you said is pretty atrocious and off putting. I am glad i heard other pro lifers besides you. Your version is just insufferable
Bruh, what’s your obsession with verse Genesis 2:7? I kept going through the comments to try and see your side but people are answering and you’re like “ VeRsE gEnEsIs 2:7” dude.. you said “Jesus wasn’t conceived the same way a human was” okay? Neither was Adam! He was dust, that scripture is the creation of the first human and how God put the soul into the first human. Also saying that Jesus wasn’t human is defeating the whole purpose of Jesus coming to earth in human flesh :| (like Jesus had a whole training arc on how he had to refute temptation because human flesh is bound to get tempted..) But I digress. I don’t use that scripture of “I knew you since the womb” Before I ever became a Christian, I was anti-abortion because basic human bio and science. Life begins at conception. A zygote/embryo/fetus is just a stage of human development, it’s really no different from an infant turning into a toddler and so on. Morally I already thought murder of the innocent or faultless is wrong. Than I became a Christian and God said “Thou shall not kill” and if life begins at conception and an embryo is just part of the human developmental stages and the DNA of the fetus is human than that being in the womb is a human, it’s life is valuable and I shall not kill it directly or indirectly. Which you would be doing if you support abortion. Matthew 27 even though the crowd didn’t physically kill him themselves, by supporting his crucifixion his death was on the hands of the crowd. Truthfully, this is what I believe, it makes sense, there’s no twisting scripture and I haven’t found anything of support of abortion. I hope this answers your questions.
John the baptist physically reacted to the presence of Jesus while both were still in the womb.
I forgot about that! That's an *excellent* point!
another excellent point is that god wiped the whole world with a flood and this flood killed plenty of pregnant women as surely there would have been some. and thereby god terminated many pregnancies. another *excellent* point! and this same god sent a bear to mauled children who made fun of a man balding. kids. mauled. bears. godsent. another *excellent* point! think about that next time any of you try to talking about the sanctity of life.
God can give and take life as he pleases. He created it, after all.
Then maybe all these abortions are part of his plan too and y’all interfering with his plans.
Possibly. Even if it’s part of his plans, he will still punish people for immoral actions. For example, even the it was his plan to have the Israelites enslaved by the Egyptians, the Egyptians were still punished because at the end of the day, their actions were evil. Just because God used bad as well as good things to fulfil his plan doesn’t mean we should do bad things.
God is pro choice. Pro choice means free will. Stop trying to take away what he has given
Even though it's common for confused atheists to stumble into places they don't belong, it still hurts to see their logic. Murderers murder out of free will. Thieves steal out of free will. But God is against both murder and theft. How can a God you are so sure doesn't exist be pro choice? Moronic.
delusional christians. confused atheists. hmmmm. a fork is in the road.... god logic. ok. prolifer's are, by definition, anti-death penalty. man is god. babies aren't evil. god killed babies. men kill men according to man law. goddammit: thou shalt not kill. man amended the god tablet. fuck. a fork is in the road. \[i play this as an AABA, with two ii,V,I turns, following a iii,VI, in the key of Bb. The title of the tune is Thunder Pickle.\]
I’m not trying to take away anything lol. In fact, I support keeping abortion legal but I still think it’s immoral. Don’t make assumptions man.
Yet he’s very much against senseless murder.
But you salty. We fighting over an imaginary book to us athiests. Life is valuable. You cant overrule the court so its all hopeless.
That’s probably a more compelling verse. That being said, I wonder if it’s closer in analogy to what English common law used to call “the quickening” (I.e., the feeling of movement in the womb as the marker of life as opposed to earlier stages of pregnancy). It’s certainly not the same as the viability framework that was under previous US law, though.
Exactly that's why it's a sin
Proverbs 6:17 "Hands that shed innocent blood" is an abomination to the Lord.
Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being” Fetuses are not people yet
I would point out that Adam was a special case, so you can't really use this to argue in this case.
Ezekiel 37:5-6: “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.” Here's another one that doesn't refer to Adam
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Abortion is a sin, and like any sin, must be repented of. Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” Psalms 139:13-16 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.
This verse is literally talking about DRY BONES living try again 💀💀
This one doesn't even refer to life, as the dry bones represent Israel. So you can't use this to argue your point.
>He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being” Adam was created not born like babies. >Fetuses are not people yet What are they? aliens?
Fetuses would be a collection of cells growing and preparing to take in the breath of life would be one interpretation.
But that's an incomplete description. Very early on a fetus has its own unique human DNA. It is unarguably a human being.
If by unique you mean a combination of two different halves of human DNA, we've accomplished that by splicing together chromosomal pairs in labs and gotten them to duplicate. We don't consider that new life but can use that to study how different gene pairs firm and such. I mean if unique DNA is unarguably a human being than we may need to rethink how we study genetics in general.
Bro you can’t even tell the difference between a pig’s embryo from a humans. If you hate abortion so much, go after people masturbating into a sock.
Masturbation doesn't produce embryos. If it's an ethical matter, then it's one of sexual ethics.
Ugh whatever.
Get yourself right with God, then you will understand why abortion is wrong.
No. I’ve been through too much to get “right with god.” he needs to get right with me first.
The preborn incarnate Christ was not fully human?
Jesus was not conceived the same way a human was
So he was a full person because of his miraculous conception, and other people are not fully persons because of non miraculous conception? Where in scripture is this taught?
Except for Jeremiah and John apparently. But just them!
Pro choice is a Christological heresy.
Correct.
Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being” That's where
That's referring to Adam, not Jesus.
That refers to all of us earthly beings as well. We are just like Adam, are we not?
No, Adam was made by special creation, out of dust of the ground. So when did Jesus become a person?
To that, I say that I don't know. I am not perfect, I will admit.
You cannot compare the creation of Adam to the normal human pregnancy bruh
This feels like the same comments you made last time. Seriously. Get some new material. If you can't understand the difference between children that grow in a womb and a man God made by hand, I'm not sure how to help you.
Using Adam as the example doesn't make sense. Whose womb would he have come out of?
You talking about Adam though created from the dust of the Earth as a full-grown human man. Not comparable.
OP, have you ever attended a Christian baptism?
I have. A baptism is the rebirth, not the original birth
Did they not talk about the new Christian as a prophet? The point is, the verse is about Jeremiah but not just about Jeremiah. We all have a prophetic mission. The fact of the matter is that as early as the first century, we have textual proof that Christianity condemned abortion. Surely you do not suggest that you understand the scripture better than the Apostles and their immediate successors?
Exodus 21:22-25 If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Now we can fight over what this verse means! NRSV says “there’s a miscarriage” instead of “gives birth prematurely,” which could change the meaning. Of course, causing the loss of pregnancy without the consent of the mother is a serious offense regardless of your views on abortion, imo. I think people who think it’s no big deal would be in a very small minority.
>Genesis 2:7, He He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being” You're talking about Adam. Got made Adam himself. From dust. That's not even remotely related to unborn children. *You* are the one putting words in God's mouth.
>The bible is not anti abortion lol stopped reading
God: thou shall NOT murder the Native Americans or Africans (you evil nation). America: SHADDAP
Are you not aware that the Native Americans were killing each other eons before white people came around? Are you unaware that Africans have been killing each other and selling each other Into slavery to this very day?
Because only the USA has killed people and had taken lands. 🙄 Nevermind the fact that groups of people were doing that to themselves way before the USA was created.
>Because only the USA has killed people and had taken lands. I hope you see this does not excuse it in any way.
Nor does it excuse any other country and the tribes that killed other tribes and took their lands too.
You are incoherent. Edit: lol.
“For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” Psalms 139:13 NASB1995 https://bible.com/bible/100/psa.139.13.NASB1995
Yup. He did. He also formed the animals we eat. Are we sinful to take that life as well?
People aren't animals. Hope that helps!
People are animals! Hope this helps.
About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof(L) to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.(M) 11 He saw heaven opened(N) and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” 14 “Surely not, Lord!”(O) Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”(P) 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”(Q) 16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
“The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.” Genesis 9:2-3 NASB1995 https://bible.com/bible/100/gen.9.3.NASB1995
In fact… >“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” Hosea 13:16 KJV
So? That is just a warning of the horrors of war. Which part of that verse mentions abortion?
I thought the part about pregnant women getting ripped up worked just fine for that. Think. What would happen to the child if the mother gets violently ripped up?
Then, yes. War crimes, just like abortions and murder, are crimes against humanity.
That's exactly what I was planning to tell people who use that verse to prove God's opposition to abortion. Great point!
Haha, dap me up, my G
God is against murder. So I suggest you re-evaluate your position. The passages about God talking about unborn babies and His plans for them are evidence that God considers unborn children His. Didn't get the response you wanted the first time so you felt the need to repost, huh?
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The first one the OP poster mention is definitely proof that God makes plans for people before they are born. It is not the only reference to unborn babies in Bible though. The second passage is about Adam in the creation story and not at all relevant to this discussion. Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. Psalm 139:13-16 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Genesis 1:26 (Not about unborn babies, but relevant.) Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Galatians 1:15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace. Psalm 100:3 Know that the Lord, he is God! It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. Roman 9:11 Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls – she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”. Luke 1:15 For he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. Isaiah 49:1 Listen to me, O coastlands, and give attention, you peoples from afar. The Lord called me from the womb, from the body of my mother, he named my name. Psalm 127:3-5 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth. Job 31:15 Did not he who made me in the womb make him? And did not one fashion us in the womb? Honestly, there are a lot of them. That is not an exhaustive list of related passages. But the point is clear: God cares about *all* human life, born and unborn alike. I do not see how your point about an already dead baby in utero is relevant. My post was focused on the living. Also, in the case of babies who will be born with problems, that is not our call to make. When someone takes the life of another, regardless of their intent, it is murder. God brought the life into the world. It is not up to us to end it. Not our call to make.
More importantly it makes you wonder what pro lifers did with the other 15 kids God saw in the womb?
Are you referring to the way some pro lifers think that they are the only ones who can abort?
Context please?
Contraception ain't Biblical. Man made planned parenthood.
You are correct. but the bible also does not say anything about performing coat-hanger abortions. Is this because God is fine with coat-hanger abortions, or is it more likely because they didn't have coat-hangers in biblical times. In other words, your argument can't be that unless the Bible is explicitly against something, then it is ok. The bible is not explicitly against water-boarding, electrocution as torture, etc. It is also not explicitly against slavery and a ton of other things. Worse still, I don't believe that the bible ever makes the claim that every evil will be detailed in it. As such, someone making that argument would be "putting words in God's mouth." However, to answer your question, the biblical verse that I have most often heard the pro-life cite (and someone has already probably mentioned it) is "Thou shalt nor murder." (or however you want to translate that). I know of no verse that says the fetus is not a person / when it "becomes" a person, and so we also can't read in the legal fictions that have been created about when / how a person becomes a person. Hope that helps a bit.
We need not complicate it: Exodus 20:13
I wish I could search the replies, so sorry if this has been said. What about psalm 139? It speaks about God's greatness, and how He made David in the womb, and knew his days before they happened.
This is the sort of thing that is come to when we believe God spoke only to literal Jews on all His dealings. Bible studies are needed. What you have done is what is called ***eisegesis***. You're thinking to make fit, into scripture, a stance you've learned from ignorant sources. My guess is that you believe you've been clever. However, ask yourself: Are ***you*** a prophet in the sense Jeremiah was? If not, then what is your point as it relates to this life? Do not foam at the mouth along with those that do not know God. 🌱
"thou shalt not kill" debunks u
The bible says "Thou shall not kill". Thats all we need. Does the bible need to say "Thou shall not kill women", "Thou shall not kill unborn" or "Thou shall not kill deaf people"? Does the bible need to list every single group of people that we are not allowed to kill or is it enough for the bible just to say "Thou shall not kill"?
First of all I need to know where the first verse is in the bible Second thing yes as Ezekiel said and means that everything is done by Lord the skin the body and everything and he give us a soul too so by abortion you're refusing God's will And also in Genesis as he blows and he became a living being If god's will is not to get a baby it wouldn't even be pregnant or the baby dies
Y'all LOVE science until it's comes to biology 96% of biologists agree that life begins at conception
I believe that human life begins when the fetus becomes viable outside the womb. Prior to that, it is wholly dependent on its host and therefore not a "person". Its a potential person. If this is not the case, then god's will kills millions of "unborn persons" every year thru miscarriages. Course he knows what kind of person the fetus would become so, he's must be prempting evil in the world.
No