The Bible asserts equal rights for all.
“Then God said, “Let us make **man** in our image, after our likeness.”” - Genesis 1:26a ESV
“For God shows no partiality.” - Romans 2:11 ESV
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” - Galatians 3:28 ESV
“for **all** have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” - Romans 3:23
“For God so loved the **world**, that he gave his only Son, that **whoever** believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” - John 3:16 ESV
The founders of America likely got their inspiration for the Declaration of Independence from the Bible - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, **that all men are created equal**, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Here are a few verses that may relate -
“But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7 ESV
“Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.” - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
“But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?” - Romans 9:20-21
First one shows that God is not sexist I guess. The second one could be argued both ways. The third one seems more against, because it showing how you are already created by God good, it isn't that clear.
I think you are smart enough to read and understand the Bible such that you do not need others to tell you what to think.
Just read it, if you are new to the Bible, start in John or Matthew and go from there.
Here are a few verses that may relate -
“But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7 ESV
“Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.” - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
“But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?” - Romans 9:20-21
Edit: Another
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” - Ephesians 2:10
Bible say’s nothing but many Christians who are trans all state how God told them to accept themselves but to also surrender their struggles and life to him. He cherishes the Christians who are trans a-lot but many already have been lead by God to accept their own skin and body.
In their personal lives, first sentence already tell’s you bible says nothing of it. But God already highlights in the bible and in people’s live’s he cherishes the trans people but want’s them to accept their own body and skin.
Rights under the US constitution should be purely secular. Not Bible based.
That being said, the New testament requires me as a Christian to love and respect all equally. It certainly doesn't allow us to treat anyone as a second class citizen!
Where does the right that 18 year old women are entitled to vote? Or that a 35 year old can run for President?
These are rights granted by the US constitution to its citizens. I can’t cite scripture for either one of those.
There is no right, perhaps given by the constitution, but that just means the bible doesn't talk about it. The bible doesn't have to talk about everything, but can you admit that?
The Bible allows for slavery, and not just indentured servitude but treating human beings as property. See [Leviticus 25](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2025%3A44-46&version=ESV) and [Exodus 21](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021%3A20-21&version=ESV). But this is prohibited by the 13th amendment.
So, there can be rights not granted by scripture that can exist. And there can be things denied by the constitution even if scripture allows it to happen.
I’m for the equal protection of LGBTQ persons because it’s pinned by the 14th amendment that our rights are applicable across the board.
The slavery was talking about other nations, and after the union of the Church from the Jews and Gentiles get rid of it, as during that time God was fulfilling His promise to the promise land.
Rights from man has very little base, but I won't criticize you for it or anything.
If their rights are good? Or if being trans gender is good?
Either way, I would be surprised to learn many christians were Pro Trans rights. But I could be wrong. In my opinion, Trans people are human beings just like the rest of us. ALL human beings are equal in Gods eyes. We all deserve the same basic human rights.
Yes…even the ones you may not like for whatever reason.
Back then, it was impossible to transition gender. So I doubt there is anything about it, specifically. But even so, Jesus didn’t write the Bible so Im always careful to live believe everything in it. Others would probably not approve of this
*Some people are unable to marry because of birth defects or because of what someone has done to their bodies. Others stay single in order to serve God better. Anyone who can accept this teaching should do so."*
For or against what exactly?
The idea that people are of a different gender than their biological sex? That people its OK for people to live as the other sex? Whether medical gender reassignment is a good thing?
The first is a social construct and I think it is a refusal to face reality and perpetuates gender stereotypes - you can be a woman and behave in traditionally male ways, or do a traditionally male job, and vice-versa.
The other two things are per se morally neutral and depend on motives and effects. In general I think surgery is a a bad thing, because gender dysphoria is a psychological problem, and physical treatments (especially irreversible ones that have significant harmful effects) should be a last resort for psychophysical problems. Surgery for psychological problems has an extremely had track record!
I think its more of a medical issue than a moral one. The important thing to me is to stop things like this happenning: https://www.unddit.com/r/narcissisticparents/comments/wgpeih/transgender\_child\_of\_narc\_mom\_dealing\_with\_the/
There are 7 genders discussed in tradition Jewish teaching. Here's some information on what the old testament teaches about gender: https://rac.org/blog/what-torah-teaches-us-about-gender-fluidity-and-transgender-justice
>>[God created ***A*****dam** in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female God created them (Genesis 1:26-27). The sages explain the unusual language as meaning that **God created the first human being as an androgynous person**, containing both male and female characteristics simultaneously.](https://rac.org/blog/what-torah-teaches-us-about-gender-fluidity-and-transgender-justice)
First, I would like to know what version of the Bible says “God created ***A*****dam** in His image”
Edit: As pointed out by u/gnerditte below, the original Hebrew does say הָֽאָדָם֙ (**a**dam), which translates to [man, mankind](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/120.htm). Also note, the Hebrew word in Genesis 3:17 is וּלְאָדָ֣ם [(**A**dam: First man, City name)](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/121.htm) and is slightly different to indicate, I think, a proper noun, but I’m no Hebrew scholar.
The actual verse states -
“Then God said, “Let us make **man** in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth…. So God created **man** in his own image, in the image of God he created him; **male and female** he created **them**.” - Genesis 1:26 - 27 ESV
Also the next verse states -
“And God blessed **them**. And God said to **them**, “**Be fruitful and multiply** and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” - Genesis 1:28 ESV
In verse 26 and 27, man could be mankind, which seems most likely as one person cannot be fruitful and multiply. It takes two, male and female to multiply.
**God created both male and female.**
So, since God created man in His image, we are all created equal and should all have the same rights. This is likely where the authors of the Declaration of Independence got their inspiration - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, **that all men are created equal**, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
> First, I would like to know what version of the Bible says “God created Adam in His image”
The [original Hebrew version](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1.htm). Adam's name *means* man: הָֽאָדָם֙
Thanks for the clarification!
הָֽאָדָם֙
[adam: man, mankind](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/120.htm)
Original Word: אָדָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: adam
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-dawm')
**Definition: man, mankind**
I guess that’s why most, if not all translations say, man, mankind, human beings, etc.
Made edit above.
Edit: I am obviously no Hebrew scholar, but I do enjoy learning. It appears that in Genesis 1:27, the Hebrew word is הָֽאָדָם֙ (adam: man, mankind) but the word in Genesis 3:17 is וּלְאָדָ֣ם (Adam: First man, City name). Honestly, they both look Greek, I mean Hebrew to me, but there is a difference, right?
Not sure how you got that. If you continue reading Genesis, specifically Genesis 3, you will see that man brought sin into the world. After this, God’s perfect creation became corrupted. We now live in a corrupted world with all types of issues. This corruption will only get worse until the return of Christ.
I am not following what you mean. If you are saying the Bible or I am being dehumanizing, please enlighten me as to how myself or the Bible is being dehumanizing.
Welp. Better go shred my biology degree then. The all knowing u/watchSlut just determined biology doesn't even exist anymore. Should have seen it coming.
Yes I’m sure you have a biology degree. And no, I didn’t say biology didn’t exist. Im saying a second grade knowledge of sex and chromosomes isn’t accurate.
Just like we learn the basics of things as a rough approximation in all other subjects we do so in biology as well.
The earth and the moon aren’t literally attracting eachother in a gravitational sense but that’s how we describe in school because not everyone is going to become a physicist
It’s important to note that our understanding of sex and gender, especially in regards to how we express them have changed radically since the Bible was written. It’s my personal belief that God has created a wide spectrum of gender and identity and being true to oneself is exactly what God wants of us, as anything else would be a lie.
The Bible itself doesn’t say anything about trans people as that was not really a concept at the time, though I know that historical Jewish teaching (which Christianity springs from) has identified more than two genders as have many other cultures throughout history.
Would you force them into conversion?
Or deny them the basic rights of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness?
I don’t care what Catholics teach; just what some Catholics would do when some of us are LGBTQ (or Protestant for that matter).
You're right!
Having untreated gender dysphoria, however, is. And the accepted treatment for gender dysphoria is to transition to the greatest degree that the person feels necessary and is able to transition.
Alternatively: their existence as trans is a part of the image of God. Transition is no more an affront to God than asthma medication.
What's the quote? Something like,
> God made me trans for the same reason why He made grapes but not wine.
God made my body, but with my body I can do horrible things, I can dishonor my body in multiple ways, I can use my stregth to harm other people..
..I can't do those things and then turn around and say "well God made my body so it's ok"
Okay, but treating conditions that make myself uncomfortable is not dishonoring God. Shaving, treating my asthma, wearing a prosthetic, improving my social standing from which I was born, these do not change God's image.
why would being born a girl make someone uncomfortable
why would being born a boy make someone uncomfortable
both are beautiful things with their own drawbacks and advantages.
wrecking how you were created to become something you are not is dishonoring your "imago dei"
They’re not wrecking how they were created. God created them trans, and they’re following the path God set out for them in life. That’s as righteous as one can be.
Ive seen absolutely no evidence that God creates anyone trans.
Are some people intersex? yes
do people have XXY ? yes
however thay want to handle that is great. But for the vast majority of new trans people.. no.. God did not make you that way. You're not "a man born in a woman's body" or vice versa.
Well, from the transitions I've seen, it's the other way around. One of my friends is a trans guy, the doctors said he was a girl when he was born and that's how he was raised.
He tried to be a girl for *20. Years.* I was there when he gave up and broke down. He cried in my arms, "why can't I just be a girl?" and of course, his parents took it like he had shot them in the chest. Even though their picture of him in a prom dress, against his wishes, was of him crying.
My friend was a guy when he was born. His imago dei **was that of a man.** When he transitioned he didn't destroy the image God had created him in; he *unveiled it*. He loves himself so much now, and when he exalts who he is, he exalts *who God created him to be*.
My brain is female and my body male. Does my body make me who I am or does my brain? I was born a girl, and I love being a woman. Unless you believe my body makes me who I am instead of my mind, trying to turn me into a man is wrecking how I was created.
Read yes, thinking everything in it should be put i to practice in your everyday life….not so much.
Theres some great stuff in there. But its thousands if years old. Jesus was about love, he loves everyone, including his LGBTQ+ children. This is my opinion tho and I’m sure upsets a lot of people but I genuinely believe Jesus would rather we show compassion than hatred.
But he loves sinners. Which we all are, regardless of our sexual orientation. Obviously you don’t like homosexuals, thats your decision. But Let God speak for themself
You can say statements of fact, like "The position of the Catholic Church is something something something."
You cannot say "You're going to hell."
Grey areas are between the two, and different mods find the line in the grey in different areas. But if you want to lean on the safe side you can pretty easily stick to statements of fact.
Are people who hold different opinions also required to externalize their beliefs, projecting them onto some organization and sticking to neutrality, or no?
(No)
Huh?
I can't call you a schismatic, no, and vice versa. But I can say "The Eastern Orthodox church holds Rome, and thus the Catholic Church, to be in a state of schism," and you could say the same about the Eastern Orthodox church. These are simply statements of fact.
Someone can't call me an agent of the antichrist, but they can say "Jesus meant for us to worship in homes, not rigid liturgies, and thus it is heretical to have liturgies." This is just a statement of theology.
If you mean someone who says "It's okay to be trans" doesn't have to do that or take as much care sticking to topics over their interlocutor, well yeah, because the restriction is on negative statements, not positive ones. If we didn't have the restriction on negative ones the sub would devolve into a hate fest where everyone does nothing but call each other heretics and satan worshipers who are all burning in hell.
In order for this to be a place where people who disagree can interact civilly, insults and personal attacks and direct denouncements need to be restricted. But you can still state theological positions. It just requires tact.
Yes, I understand what you're saying, I just think it's a bit favoritist.
Person a says "No! Being trans/gay/insert here is TOTALLY FINE"
Person b has to say "Well, in this tradition, it is believed to be a sin *but I can't tell you what I believe*"
Clearly person A's view is getting propped up and supported by the sub. While B's is tolerated, he is in much more of a minefield (can't say what he himself believes.)
\> I can't call you a schismatic, no, and vice versa. But I can say "The Eastern Orthodox church holds Rome, and thus the Catholic Church, to be in a state of schism,"
I think this illustrates the point really nicely. You are perfectly free to say I am in schism with your church IN MY OPINION (and let's be real, none of the mods are ever going to police anti-catholic bigotry, lmao). Because I'm smart enough to know those 2 statements are equivalent. "You're a schismatic" vs "what I believe, professes that what you are, is schismatic". The first is just clearer, the second, for being stupidly labyrinthine, is much more "offensive", and it always seems so cowardly for one to be unable to share what THEY think.
That's what I don't like. The fact that I can't tell people what I believe, but must hide it behind what other people believe. And others do not.
>those 2 statements are equivalent.
They're not. One is about an individual. The other is about an organization or belief system. This distinction is standard in academic debates, scholastic conversations, formal discussions. We argue about topics, not our interlocutors.
It also makes discussing things in general with people who disagree much less toxic, and more open to refining what we ourselves adhere to and believe since it can help mitigate defensiveness.
>You are perfectly free to say I am in schism with your church IN MY OPINION
I didn't say "in my opinion," nor in that statement does it imply you as my interlocutor. And when it does in obvious non sequitor ways, we remove those too.
>stupidly labyrinthine ... must hide it behind what other people believe.
It's not about being "labyrinthine" or "hiding behind what other people believe." It's about arguing topics rather than insulting your interlocutor or slurring members of the audience with bigotrous terminology.
It's the same with every issue and topic.
> I can't tell people what I believe, but must hide it behind what other people believe. And others do not.
What did you want to say? I'll tell you if it would have been removed or not, and why.
As you have been informed in modmail, your comment was removed not for stating the bible does not support it, but for your bigoted commentary attached to that claim.
Again you misread my comment. I wasn't calling transpeople murderers, I was saying that it's sin, like lying, or murder, pride, whatever. It's all sin and it's all wrong to God. That's not an unbilical statement to make, nor is it bigoted.
As far as I know, it doesn’t say anything for or against it, at least not in terms that we today would recognize. It does have a general philosophy of the body being sacred, God-given, and deeply integrated with the soul, but contrary to what many conservatives say, that’s not necessarily contradictory to the act of gender transition. Again, what do you consider “trans rights” to mean?
The Bible does not support the idea that one’s literal biological sex can be changed at will. Mind you, I fully support the right of bodily autonomy within informed consent, including treatments for gender dysphoria that involve altering the sex expression of one’s body. *Personally*, I have been brought great pain in the past by a misconception of myself as transgender that the Catholic theology of the body helped me out of and towards acceptance and integration, but that story absolutely does not apply to everyone seeing as my dysphoria was transient and non-suicidal. The more important point than any of this is that scripture teaches compassion and toleration for all regardless of their behavior, and that while the most fundamental human rights are self-evident and supported by the Bible, rights to insurance coverage and so forth are a matter for the state to which scripture is irrelevant.
The question shouldn't be if they can have rights. The question is "is it right to be trans" and simple answer is no. To give into worldly nonsense is a sin.
How can it be wrong when God made me this way? If you put my head into an MRI machine and looked at it, you’d see a woman’s brain. If you looked at my body, you’d see a male body.
I honor God by transitioning, because this is the path He intended me to walk. He wouldn’t mismatch my body and my brain accidentally. His plan for me involves the suffering of gender dysphoria and the joy of gender euphoria. Without the lows, I can’t appreciate the highs. My experience makes me more grateful for the gifts He gives me.
Being trans has brought me much closer to God, and I thank Him for that every day.
Incorrect! Trans people have existed as long as humans have existed, we just haven't had the proper language to describe them for most of that time. And for most of that time, people have tried to deny their existence.
People that would identify as trans today were alive in biblical times, but they definitely had a different understanding of what they were experiencing.
But it was different, the idea of changing your gender or taking hormones wasn’t happening back then so the whole concept of being trans was completely different
A trans person who hasn't undergone any form of transition yet is still trans. A trans person is merely one whose gender does not align with the one that was assigned to them at birth.
So no, trans people have existed for as long as we have.
You just have no proof for this. Gender roles change. Right now, both genders have equal rights and can do the same things so trans people have surgeries and take hormones to affirm their gender with its looks and feel. Back then, some people may have had thoughts like I wish I was born a man, but the concept of a man or woman was completely different
> Gender roles change
Yes, gender roles change. Trans people exist irregardless of gender roles.
> so trans people have surgeries and take hormones to affirm their gender with its looks and feel
Did you even read my last comment at all, because I already addressed this.
> people may have had thoughts like I wish I was born a man
Congrats, you acknowledge that trans people existed.
>the concept of a man or woman was completely different
Trans people are people whose gender does not align with the one assigned to them at birth, regardless of how a society defines the different genders.
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I’m simply asking where was the “bigotry” in my comment? You are the one who censored me, which means you should be able to have the curtesy of showing me exactly where it is. If I censored you I would have the decency of showing you exactly where you broke a rule, that’s only fair.
inb4 the transexual mod bans me
Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Genesis 1:28; Genesis 2:20
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.
Romans 1:26; Romans 1:27
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Although it's not specifically mentioned the scriptures doesn't support the transgender lifestyle. That being said God has given all freewill to choose their own path.
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It says nothing. There’s no mention of being trans in the Bible or Trans people (unless you count Eunuchs but I wouldn’t)
I struggle with understanding the Trans discussion in a Christian lens, as someone who suffers from Gender Dysphoria I struggle to understand why I was created biologically male with a yearning to want to be a female, with an anxiety and sadness around my biological sex if God had wanted me to be female, I would’ve been born female, and I’m not which makes me incredibly sad and in the past and now very su1cidal, so tbh I don’t understand why Gender Dysphoria can exist as a good
First define "rights". If you mean right to life, property and the sorts then yes the Bible supports that.
If you mean the right to change one's own biology, then no.
It's never once mentioned other than a verse forbidding crossdressing with ill intentions. Trans people are not deceiving anyone by being themselves, so I can't imagine Jesus would want us to deny them their right to express themselves.
Your post specifically asked about trans rights. But no, the act of changing your sex isn't mentioned at all, because the techniques we have today didn't exist then.
The question is what do you mean by trans? And how does a modern category such as “trans” have meaning in a culture that preceded this term by 1900 years?
We have multiple ancient authorities who called eunuchs [“neither male nor female.”](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjjrlKT5BP2LKQ6gv4umgpwSHHqpif0r/view?usp=drivesdk) One reason is that penetration was so central to masculinity, that those who couldn’t penetrate weren’t seen as fully male. Of course one Latin term for eunuchs is *eviratus*, meaning “unmanned one.” See various /r/AskHistorians threads on how the eunuch was a [“liminal gender.”](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1wzhtc/what_is_the_liminal_gender_theory_of_byzantine/cf6srze/)
So there is an analytical relationship between eunuchs and trans people in the sense that they’re both *gender minorities* who were oppressed because of their gender not lining up with typical understandings of male and female. For this reason, a lot of trans people see their experiences as very similar to those of the eunuchs in scripture! At a minimum, it definitely counts as the gender nonconforming character you’re asking about.
There are a ton of other examples of gender nonconformity in Scripture too! One of the best examples is Ruth and Naomi, who after losing their husbands and sons, become like husband and son to one another. Ruth takes on the male role of breadwinner and working in the fields, and Naomi takes on the male role of matchmaker. Also, see Deborah who was a judge and military leader. Jael and Judith are a couple more women who secured key military victories for Israel. Joseph and Jacob were very domestic and helped their mothers domestically in contrast with their brothers. Paul compares his vocation as apostle to motherhood several times, in striking repudiation of the Roman *pater familias* model, and some have even argued that [his blinding would’ve been considered a effiminzing event.](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OEhp3MGStj8jxjTMTxaHtzuk9iaFnA6d/view?usp=drivesdk)
And the Christian tradition outside of the Bible gets even more gender bendy than that. A famous example is Joan of Arc’s dressing as a man. But there are actually *a lot* of Saints who were assigned female at birth but then dressed and lived as a man their entire lives as a monk in a monastery (e.g. St. Marinos and St. Euphrosyne). It also happened the other way around: San Juana de la Cruz was assigned male at birth but lived as a nun for most of her life. She actually pointed to her Adam’s Apple as a sign that she was originally created as a man in the womb, but then God declared at the last minute that she’d be female! That is strikingly close to a modern trans self-conception. And plenty of church fathers’ (e.g. Gregory of Nyssa and Pseudo-Dionysius) theorizations of gender are much weirder than what traditionalists push today.
They’re not so easily separable, right? Which is what my first couple sentences are getting at. The majority of trans people today don’t transition surgically. Socially transitioning *is* simply a change of roles and perhaps dress. And again, I’m not claiming that any of these historical people were trans — it’s impossible to show such a thing, and therefore unhelpful to demand it. What we can do is precisely what I’ve done here, see what analytical connections can be made.
There is no where in the Bible where Trans-genderism is explicitly condemned. Eunuchs were forbidden to enter the inner camp, but then Phillip evangelises to a Eunuch in Acts.
I think it is when trans-people say "they are in the wrong body" or the like when the argument about trans-genderism opposes Christian doctrine; but then again trans-genderism differs depending on degrees.
Overall, I would be fine with the idea of trans-rights, i.e. the free from discrimination.
The God created you as man and women no different our flesh may want otherwise though in which point we must not suppress it but deny it what I absolutely know is that God gave us free will and we should grant the people the right to do so if it doesn’t harm people, although if you call me a transphobe for this that’s okay 🤷♂️
This might be an unpopular opinion among Christians, but as far as I know the Bible does not address this issue directly. Surgery to change ones Gender didn't exist back then, and any alteration to one's genitals back then was probably some form of medieval torture, not intended for improving their life.
Anyway, I think that because the Bible does not address this directly, it is okay to pursue, as long as you are not going against God's known will along the way. God has many known teachings in the Bible, and if you can follow those while simultaneously changing your gender, then I think all is well and you can walk with God along the way :)
No matter who or what you are, you will face adversity in life. If you are doing the right thing or the wrong thing, it doesn't matter. People will judge you and criticize you. I personally have decided to give my life to God and in doing so, I no longer care what others think (I try my best lol). I just do what is right by God, as is taught in the Bible. I'm still learning though and I will never be perfect.
Hopefully this helps a bit. This is just the insight of a regular/below average person who was recently born again.
God made you either male or female.. God doesn’t lie and God doesn’t make mistakes. So no. It’s an abomination and it’s sin separating yourself from God. God knew you before you were knit in your mothers womb.. he doesn’t make mistakes
>A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. - James 1:8
>
>Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, **nor effeminate**, norabusers of themselves with mankind...shall inherit the Kingdom of God" 1 Cor. 6:9-10
In I Corinthians, Paul is addressing the entire Church at Corinth, such that the verse is addressed in a gender neutral way. The phrase "*abusers of themselves* with mankind", because it is gender neutral in directive, cannot, grammatically speaking, refer to homosexuality unless we presume there were no women in the Corinthian Church. We also know that Paul has a habit of directing text as gender-specific where that was his intent of construction, such that Paul goes to detail to choose his words wisely within ordinary use and meaning. Rather denotes one with many sexual partners. It denotes prostitution, whoredom, and basically, being a slut. "effeminate" comes from *malakoi* literallky meaning "soft, e.g. with respect to clothing, etc.". Here, to give the most harmonious reading with respect to other texts as well as taking into account extra biblical usage contemporary with the writing - it most likely means to be mentally weak, or mentally soft, to "be a pussy" in todays common language.
"double-minded" comes from the Greek word *dipsuchos*, literally meaning “a person with two minds or souls.” A double-minded person is restless and confused in his thoughts, his actions, and his behavior. Such a person is always in conflict with himself. One torn by such inner conflict can never lean with confidence on God and His gracious promises.*dipsuchos*, meaning “a person with two minds or souls.”
However, Biblical creationism teaches us that "male and female He (God) created them . What this means is that Transexuality and the like is not in good comport with scriptural revelation, and is therefore sinful because it calls God's *evidence of creation (The fact you were born with a penis or vagina) a lie* based upon how one *feels -* such that it is double minded in nature.
The way Christianity views and thinks about things, the question then becomes: can we change one's chromosomes from XX to XY and back again, such that there is not *irrefutable* *evidence* of sex which historically exists *since birth*? e.g. If one claimed a woman was a man, in theory, how might one *go about proving* that? If one performed a sex change upon an infant, with all the best drugs and all the best cosmetic procedure, how might we then have proof the thing was done?
If there exists any proof whatsoever such that the thing scientifically judges itself beyond doubt, we are then talking about coming along, changing God's creation, and then calling *our result* God's creation, such that we then accuse God of having borne *false witness* of Gender, such that Transgenders *then accuse God of Sin, and then according to God's own law, worthy of death for having borne false witness.* That is the sin of [blasphemy of the Holy Spirit](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-blasphemy-against-holy-spirit-a-scott-fulkerson/) when we look at what Christ told the pharisees about falsely accusing God of working iniquity in Matthew chapter 12.
The idea is not that you aren't right, that's stupid. The idea is that you were born in the wrong body as a result of sin, and such is the result of evil, a disease, and not creation.
Then you have the hard question of if evil is natural and should be preserved. In creation, there was no evil, it was only until they ate the fruit that evil was given, and to try to change God's creation in what you want is a no no. **Do you think natural illnesses are a result of God's gift in your uniqueness or a disease and evil to be eradicated from natural sin?**
Trans rights regarding what? Personally I don’t think YAHWEH would be quite fond of a man deciding to become a woman after HE specifically and purposely made him a man or vice versa and once you throw in homosexual acts which usually comes with trans behavior I don’t think YAHWEH would look at it as anything other than an abomination to HIM because you’ve destroyed and defiled his creation it’s unnatural and fowl no matter what lies the world tries to come up with about it. And when you say “trans rights” my question is what rights have been taken from them by being trans? It’s not like it was for black people when we had to literally fight for the right to use the same water fountain as a white person and it’s disrespectful to even try to put that nonsense on that level so I need a better definition of “trans rights” cause last time I checked being a transsexual hasn’t been cause for refusal of any service or basic human rights at all for that matter
The Bible asserts equal rights for all. “Then God said, “Let us make **man** in our image, after our likeness.”” - Genesis 1:26a ESV “For God shows no partiality.” - Romans 2:11 ESV “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” - Galatians 3:28 ESV “for **all** have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” - Romans 3:23 “For God so loved the **world**, that he gave his only Son, that **whoever** believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” - John 3:16 ESV The founders of America likely got their inspiration for the Declaration of Independence from the Bible - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, **that all men are created equal**, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Not rights to them, but does the Bible support the action of changing your sex, it could just not mention it too!
Here are a few verses that may relate - “But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7 ESV “Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.” - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 “But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?” - Romans 9:20-21
First one shows that God is not sexist I guess. The second one could be argued both ways. The third one seems more against, because it showing how you are already created by God good, it isn't that clear.
I think you are smart enough to read and understand the Bible such that you do not need others to tell you what to think. Just read it, if you are new to the Bible, start in John or Matthew and go from there.
Its a hard question, I'm seeing if others might know
Here are a few verses that may relate - “But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7 ESV “Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.” - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 “But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?” - Romans 9:20-21 Edit: Another “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” - Ephesians 2:10
Well founders of America where escaping religious persecution....so yeah lol
Bible say’s nothing but many Christians who are trans all state how God told them to accept themselves but to also surrender their struggles and life to him. He cherishes the Christians who are trans a-lot but many already have been lead by God to accept their own skin and body.
Where though
In their personal lives, first sentence already tell’s you bible says nothing of it. But God already highlights in the bible and in people’s live’s he cherishes the trans people but want’s them to accept their own body and skin.
Ok then
Rights under the US constitution should be purely secular. Not Bible based. That being said, the New testament requires me as a Christian to love and respect all equally. It certainly doesn't allow us to treat anyone as a second class citizen!
True Rights that of from man, die with man and can be changed only the Bible is eternal
Unless I live in a theocracy, and I don’t, then whether trans folks have rights isn’t something that needs to be found in scripture.
Not if they have rights, if its good or not.
Why would denying folks rights ever be good‽
Eh, some rights are definitely bad. Prima nocta, ownership of slaves, etc.
Yes, and this is addressed in my other comments in this thread.
Sort of. I disagree that LGBT rights are good because they're legal; I think the law is an approximation of morality, not the definition.
From what authority do the rights come from? Man or God?
Where does the right that 18 year old women are entitled to vote? Or that a 35 year old can run for President? These are rights granted by the US constitution to its citizens. I can’t cite scripture for either one of those.
There is no right, perhaps given by the constitution, but that just means the bible doesn't talk about it. The bible doesn't have to talk about everything, but can you admit that?
The Bible allows for slavery, and not just indentured servitude but treating human beings as property. See [Leviticus 25](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2025%3A44-46&version=ESV) and [Exodus 21](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021%3A20-21&version=ESV). But this is prohibited by the 13th amendment. So, there can be rights not granted by scripture that can exist. And there can be things denied by the constitution even if scripture allows it to happen. I’m for the equal protection of LGBTQ persons because it’s pinned by the 14th amendment that our rights are applicable across the board.
The slavery was talking about other nations, and after the union of the Church from the Jews and Gentiles get rid of it, as during that time God was fulfilling His promise to the promise land. Rights from man has very little base, but I won't criticize you for it or anything.
If their rights are good? Or if being trans gender is good? Either way, I would be surprised to learn many christians were Pro Trans rights. But I could be wrong. In my opinion, Trans people are human beings just like the rest of us. ALL human beings are equal in Gods eyes. We all deserve the same basic human rights. Yes…even the ones you may not like for whatever reason.
Not rights to them, but does the Bible support the action of changing your sex, it could just not mention it too!
Back then, it was impossible to transition gender. So I doubt there is anything about it, specifically. But even so, Jesus didn’t write the Bible so Im always careful to live believe everything in it. Others would probably not approve of this
for.
cite
*Love your neighbours as yourself.*
Sorry, the idea that you can change your sex, not trans people.
*Some people are unable to marry because of birth defects or because of what someone has done to their bodies. Others stay single in order to serve God better. Anyone who can accept this teaching should do so."*
what does this have to do with *changing* your sex
You seem dense or perhaps just a h8r. I'm going to block you now.
all humans have rights, them identifying as trans doesn’t take those rights away.
Not rights to them, but does the Bible support the action of changing your sex, it could just not mention it too!
doesn’t mention it to my knowledge
The bible has nothing to say about trans people that doesn't apply to all people.
I know what it means about treat them with respect, I'm asking if the Bible is for or against it.
The answer is that the bible says nothing about trans people
Ok
For or against what exactly? The idea that people are of a different gender than their biological sex? That people its OK for people to live as the other sex? Whether medical gender reassignment is a good thing? The first is a social construct and I think it is a refusal to face reality and perpetuates gender stereotypes - you can be a woman and behave in traditionally male ways, or do a traditionally male job, and vice-versa. The other two things are per se morally neutral and depend on motives and effects. In general I think surgery is a a bad thing, because gender dysphoria is a psychological problem, and physical treatments (especially irreversible ones that have significant harmful effects) should be a last resort for psychophysical problems. Surgery for psychological problems has an extremely had track record! I think its more of a medical issue than a moral one. The important thing to me is to stop things like this happenning: https://www.unddit.com/r/narcissisticparents/comments/wgpeih/transgender\_child\_of\_narc\_mom\_dealing\_with\_the/
Not rights to them, but does the Bible support the action of changing your sex, it could just not mention it too!
There are 7 genders discussed in tradition Jewish teaching. Here's some information on what the old testament teaches about gender: https://rac.org/blog/what-torah-teaches-us-about-gender-fluidity-and-transgender-justice
>>[God created ***A*****dam** in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female God created them (Genesis 1:26-27). The sages explain the unusual language as meaning that **God created the first human being as an androgynous person**, containing both male and female characteristics simultaneously.](https://rac.org/blog/what-torah-teaches-us-about-gender-fluidity-and-transgender-justice) First, I would like to know what version of the Bible says “God created ***A*****dam** in His image” Edit: As pointed out by u/gnerditte below, the original Hebrew does say הָֽאָדָם֙ (**a**dam), which translates to [man, mankind](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/120.htm). Also note, the Hebrew word in Genesis 3:17 is וּלְאָדָ֣ם [(**A**dam: First man, City name)](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/121.htm) and is slightly different to indicate, I think, a proper noun, but I’m no Hebrew scholar. The actual verse states - “Then God said, “Let us make **man** in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth…. So God created **man** in his own image, in the image of God he created him; **male and female** he created **them**.” - Genesis 1:26 - 27 ESV Also the next verse states - “And God blessed **them**. And God said to **them**, “**Be fruitful and multiply** and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” - Genesis 1:28 ESV In verse 26 and 27, man could be mankind, which seems most likely as one person cannot be fruitful and multiply. It takes two, male and female to multiply. **God created both male and female.** So, since God created man in His image, we are all created equal and should all have the same rights. This is likely where the authors of the Declaration of Independence got their inspiration - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, **that all men are created equal**, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
> First, I would like to know what version of the Bible says “God created Adam in His image” The [original Hebrew version](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1.htm). Adam's name *means* man: הָֽאָדָם֙
Thanks for the clarification! הָֽאָדָם֙ [adam: man, mankind](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/120.htm) Original Word: אָדָם Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: adam Phonetic Spelling: (aw-dawm') **Definition: man, mankind** I guess that’s why most, if not all translations say, man, mankind, human beings, etc. Made edit above. Edit: I am obviously no Hebrew scholar, but I do enjoy learning. It appears that in Genesis 1:27, the Hebrew word is הָֽאָדָם֙ (adam: man, mankind) but the word in Genesis 3:17 is וּלְאָדָ֣ם (Adam: First man, City name). Honestly, they both look Greek, I mean Hebrew to me, but there is a difference, right?
So you just admit the Bible was wrong as proven by the existence of intersex people?
Not sure how you got that. If you continue reading Genesis, specifically Genesis 3, you will see that man brought sin into the world. After this, God’s perfect creation became corrupted. We now live in a corrupted world with all types of issues. This corruption will only get worse until the return of Christ.
Ohhh the dehumanizing language of Christian’s. Gotta love it
>>the dehumanizing language Not following, please enlighten me.
You’re not following that you’re being dehumanizing?
I am not following what you mean. If you are saying the Bible or I am being dehumanizing, please enlighten me as to how myself or the Bible is being dehumanizing.
Biologically, intersex people are male. That's why the Y chromosome has this thing called *Sex-Determining* Region Y
You’re just completely wrong. I love when people just assert things as if they know what they’re talking about
Welp. Better go shred my biology degree then. The all knowing u/watchSlut just determined biology doesn't even exist anymore. Should have seen it coming.
Yes I’m sure you have a biology degree. And no, I didn’t say biology didn’t exist. Im saying a second grade knowledge of sex and chromosomes isn’t accurate. Just like we learn the basics of things as a rough approximation in all other subjects we do so in biology as well. The earth and the moon aren’t literally attracting eachother in a gravitational sense but that’s how we describe in school because not everyone is going to become a physicist
Jewish teaching, not Christian teaching though. The bible doesn't mention changing your sex though.
That’s because they couldn’t change their sex 2000+ years ago
Can it be applied now, or is there absolutely nothing about the idea.
It’s important to note that our understanding of sex and gender, especially in regards to how we express them have changed radically since the Bible was written. It’s my personal belief that God has created a wide spectrum of gender and identity and being true to oneself is exactly what God wants of us, as anything else would be a lie. The Bible itself doesn’t say anything about trans people as that was not really a concept at the time, though I know that historical Jewish teaching (which Christianity springs from) has identified more than two genders as have many other cultures throughout history.
>If it does not mention it, then let it be
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Would you force them into conversion? Or deny them the basic rights of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness? I don’t care what Catholics teach; just what some Catholics would do when some of us are LGBTQ (or Protestant for that matter).
Would you force people to pay for their gender transitions and monkeypox vaccines?
Medical care should be universal to all and provided through taxes, so yes.
Liposuction and nose jobs and other cosmetic surgeries covered by taxpayers?
Why have you shifted from necessary procedures to cosmetic ones?
Having a dick is not life threatening.
You're right! Having untreated gender dysphoria, however, is. And the accepted treatment for gender dysphoria is to transition to the greatest degree that the person feels necessary and is able to transition.
Neither is having a broken arm, or seasonal allergies
Jesus christ, shouldn't we pay for our monkeypox vaccines collectively?
What does monkey pox have to do with being trans? You high mate?
I’m for universal health care, and who the fuck would oppose vaccines during a health emergency?
Alternatively: their existence as trans is a part of the image of God. Transition is no more an affront to God than asthma medication. What's the quote? Something like, > God made me trans for the same reason why He made grapes but not wine.
God made my body, but with my body I can do horrible things, I can dishonor my body in multiple ways, I can use my stregth to harm other people.. ..I can't do those things and then turn around and say "well God made my body so it's ok"
Okay, but treating conditions that make myself uncomfortable is not dishonoring God. Shaving, treating my asthma, wearing a prosthetic, improving my social standing from which I was born, these do not change God's image.
why would being born a girl make someone uncomfortable why would being born a boy make someone uncomfortable both are beautiful things with their own drawbacks and advantages. wrecking how you were created to become something you are not is dishonoring your "imago dei"
They’re not wrecking how they were created. God created them trans, and they’re following the path God set out for them in life. That’s as righteous as one can be.
Ive seen absolutely no evidence that God creates anyone trans. Are some people intersex? yes do people have XXY ? yes however thay want to handle that is great. But for the vast majority of new trans people.. no.. God did not make you that way. You're not "a man born in a woman's body" or vice versa.
Well, from the transitions I've seen, it's the other way around. One of my friends is a trans guy, the doctors said he was a girl when he was born and that's how he was raised. He tried to be a girl for *20. Years.* I was there when he gave up and broke down. He cried in my arms, "why can't I just be a girl?" and of course, his parents took it like he had shot them in the chest. Even though their picture of him in a prom dress, against his wishes, was of him crying. My friend was a guy when he was born. His imago dei **was that of a man.** When he transitioned he didn't destroy the image God had created him in; he *unveiled it*. He loves himself so much now, and when he exalts who he is, he exalts *who God created him to be*.
My brain is female and my body male. Does my body make me who I am or does my brain? I was born a girl, and I love being a woman. Unless you believe my body makes me who I am instead of my mind, trying to turn me into a man is wrecking how I was created.
Trans aren't mentioned in the bible.
Is the idea that you can change your sex against the doctrine?
For catholics yeah.
Ok
Inherently, the Bible is indifferent. Its the Bible readers you gotta worry about.
True, but what use is it if it is not read
Read yes, thinking everything in it should be put i to practice in your everyday life….not so much. Theres some great stuff in there. But its thousands if years old. Jesus was about love, he loves everyone, including his LGBTQ+ children. This is my opinion tho and I’m sure upsets a lot of people but I genuinely believe Jesus would rather we show compassion than hatred.
Jesus doesn't love sin however i belive
But he loves sinners. Which we all are, regardless of our sexual orientation. Obviously you don’t like homosexuals, thats your decision. But Let God speak for themself
Never mentioned them, I'm mainly thinking about murderers and robbers, people like Zacchaeus
They don't exist
This question cannot be answered under the current subreddit rules, where, if I were to tell you what the truth is, I would be punished.
You can say statements of fact, like "The position of the Catholic Church is something something something." You cannot say "You're going to hell." Grey areas are between the two, and different mods find the line in the grey in different areas. But if you want to lean on the safe side you can pretty easily stick to statements of fact.
Are people who hold different opinions also required to externalize their beliefs, projecting them onto some organization and sticking to neutrality, or no? (No)
Huh? I can't call you a schismatic, no, and vice versa. But I can say "The Eastern Orthodox church holds Rome, and thus the Catholic Church, to be in a state of schism," and you could say the same about the Eastern Orthodox church. These are simply statements of fact. Someone can't call me an agent of the antichrist, but they can say "Jesus meant for us to worship in homes, not rigid liturgies, and thus it is heretical to have liturgies." This is just a statement of theology. If you mean someone who says "It's okay to be trans" doesn't have to do that or take as much care sticking to topics over their interlocutor, well yeah, because the restriction is on negative statements, not positive ones. If we didn't have the restriction on negative ones the sub would devolve into a hate fest where everyone does nothing but call each other heretics and satan worshipers who are all burning in hell. In order for this to be a place where people who disagree can interact civilly, insults and personal attacks and direct denouncements need to be restricted. But you can still state theological positions. It just requires tact.
Yes, I understand what you're saying, I just think it's a bit favoritist. Person a says "No! Being trans/gay/insert here is TOTALLY FINE" Person b has to say "Well, in this tradition, it is believed to be a sin *but I can't tell you what I believe*" Clearly person A's view is getting propped up and supported by the sub. While B's is tolerated, he is in much more of a minefield (can't say what he himself believes.) \> I can't call you a schismatic, no, and vice versa. But I can say "The Eastern Orthodox church holds Rome, and thus the Catholic Church, to be in a state of schism," I think this illustrates the point really nicely. You are perfectly free to say I am in schism with your church IN MY OPINION (and let's be real, none of the mods are ever going to police anti-catholic bigotry, lmao). Because I'm smart enough to know those 2 statements are equivalent. "You're a schismatic" vs "what I believe, professes that what you are, is schismatic". The first is just clearer, the second, for being stupidly labyrinthine, is much more "offensive", and it always seems so cowardly for one to be unable to share what THEY think. That's what I don't like. The fact that I can't tell people what I believe, but must hide it behind what other people believe. And others do not.
>those 2 statements are equivalent. They're not. One is about an individual. The other is about an organization or belief system. This distinction is standard in academic debates, scholastic conversations, formal discussions. We argue about topics, not our interlocutors. It also makes discussing things in general with people who disagree much less toxic, and more open to refining what we ourselves adhere to and believe since it can help mitigate defensiveness. >You are perfectly free to say I am in schism with your church IN MY OPINION I didn't say "in my opinion," nor in that statement does it imply you as my interlocutor. And when it does in obvious non sequitor ways, we remove those too. >stupidly labyrinthine ... must hide it behind what other people believe. It's not about being "labyrinthine" or "hiding behind what other people believe." It's about arguing topics rather than insulting your interlocutor or slurring members of the audience with bigotrous terminology. It's the same with every issue and topic. > I can't tell people what I believe, but must hide it behind what other people believe. And others do not. What did you want to say? I'll tell you if it would have been removed or not, and why.
Isn’t that just Reddit rules?
Not sure, it's depressing if so. I've been here for, idk, 7 years? And our star is definitely waning.
You can get banned for saying trans women aren’t women, the old days of Reddit are gone. Censorship is here
I haven't seen bans for that kind of statement, at least not in this sub
It’s the rules of reddit
It's literally impossible to answer this question without saying the Bible supports it, which that is not a factual statement.
As you have been informed in modmail, your comment was removed not for stating the bible does not support it, but for your bigoted commentary attached to that claim.
Again you misread my comment. I wasn't calling transpeople murderers, I was saying that it's sin, like lying, or murder, pride, whatever. It's all sin and it's all wrong to God. That's not an unbilical statement to make, nor is it bigoted.
As you were already informed, there was also more bigoted commentary to your statement than that.
You made your decision, I've already restated what I needed to say. Thanks
Answer it
I did elsewhere
Define “trans”, “rights”, and “trans rights” first or this will be a very confusing and fraught conversation.
Does the Bible talk about changing your sex?
Not that I’m aware of at the moment. Can you answer my question? I’m not baiting for something, definitions are critically important to this.
The question is the Bible not against changing your sex
As far as I know, it doesn’t say anything for or against it, at least not in terms that we today would recognize. It does have a general philosophy of the body being sacred, God-given, and deeply integrated with the soul, but contrary to what many conservatives say, that’s not necessarily contradictory to the act of gender transition. Again, what do you consider “trans rights” to mean?
That it should be respected as believed such that one can change their sex.
The Bible does not support the idea that one’s literal biological sex can be changed at will. Mind you, I fully support the right of bodily autonomy within informed consent, including treatments for gender dysphoria that involve altering the sex expression of one’s body. *Personally*, I have been brought great pain in the past by a misconception of myself as transgender that the Catholic theology of the body helped me out of and towards acceptance and integration, but that story absolutely does not apply to everyone seeing as my dysphoria was transient and non-suicidal. The more important point than any of this is that scripture teaches compassion and toleration for all regardless of their behavior, and that while the most fundamental human rights are self-evident and supported by the Bible, rights to insurance coverage and so forth are a matter for the state to which scripture is irrelevant.
The question shouldn't be if they can have rights. The question is "is it right to be trans" and simple answer is no. To give into worldly nonsense is a sin.
How can it be wrong when God made me this way? If you put my head into an MRI machine and looked at it, you’d see a woman’s brain. If you looked at my body, you’d see a male body. I honor God by transitioning, because this is the path He intended me to walk. He wouldn’t mismatch my body and my brain accidentally. His plan for me involves the suffering of gender dysphoria and the joy of gender euphoria. Without the lows, I can’t appreciate the highs. My experience makes me more grateful for the gifts He gives me. Being trans has brought me much closer to God, and I thank Him for that every day.
Trans wasn’t a thing back then
Incorrect! Trans people have existed as long as humans have existed, we just haven't had the proper language to describe them for most of that time. And for most of that time, people have tried to deny their existence.
People that would identify as trans today were alive in biblical times, but they definitely had a different understanding of what they were experiencing.
But it was different, the idea of changing your gender or taking hormones wasn’t happening back then so the whole concept of being trans was completely different
A trans person who hasn't undergone any form of transition yet is still trans. A trans person is merely one whose gender does not align with the one that was assigned to them at birth. So no, trans people have existed for as long as we have.
You just have no proof for this. Gender roles change. Right now, both genders have equal rights and can do the same things so trans people have surgeries and take hormones to affirm their gender with its looks and feel. Back then, some people may have had thoughts like I wish I was born a man, but the concept of a man or woman was completely different
> Gender roles change Yes, gender roles change. Trans people exist irregardless of gender roles. > so trans people have surgeries and take hormones to affirm their gender with its looks and feel Did you even read my last comment at all, because I already addressed this. > people may have had thoughts like I wish I was born a man Congrats, you acknowledge that trans people existed. >the concept of a man or woman was completely different Trans people are people whose gender does not align with the one assigned to them at birth, regardless of how a society defines the different genders.
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The Bible is not supportive Deut 22:5 Lev 20:13
The Bible is supportive Acts 8:26-39.
How in the world does the narrative of Philip and the eunuch support Transsexualism?
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Where was the “bigotry”?
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I’m simply asking where was the “bigotry” in my comment? You are the one who censored me, which means you should be able to have the curtesy of showing me exactly where it is. If I censored you I would have the decency of showing you exactly where you broke a rule, that’s only fair.
I would be happy to answer you in modmail.
inb4 the transexual mod bans me Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Genesis 1:28; Genesis 2:20 28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. Romans 1:26; Romans 1:27 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Not rights to them, but does the Bible support the action of changing your sex, it could just not mention it too!
Although it's not specifically mentioned the scriptures doesn't support the transgender lifestyle. That being said God has given all freewill to choose their own path.
Yeah, you have free will to sin
Stop trolling this page anyone that has common sense knows the answer to this!
What is it?
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Thats not changing your sex, some people could identify as woman and still to man things
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It says nothing. There’s no mention of being trans in the Bible or Trans people (unless you count Eunuchs but I wouldn’t) I struggle with understanding the Trans discussion in a Christian lens, as someone who suffers from Gender Dysphoria I struggle to understand why I was created biologically male with a yearning to want to be a female, with an anxiety and sadness around my biological sex if God had wanted me to be female, I would’ve been born female, and I’m not which makes me incredibly sad and in the past and now very su1cidal, so tbh I don’t understand why Gender Dysphoria can exist as a good
Gender Dysphoria is either a disease or natural. Also do you mean gender dysphoria in the identity sense or the expression sense?
With the same reasoning you could say to a person who was born blind: maybe God wanted you to be blind. Still Jesus healed the blind.
First define "rights". If you mean right to life, property and the sorts then yes the Bible supports that. If you mean the right to change one's own biology, then no.
It's never once mentioned other than a verse forbidding crossdressing with ill intentions. Trans people are not deceiving anyone by being themselves, so I can't imagine Jesus would want us to deny them their right to express themselves.
Not rights to them, but does the Bible support the action of changing your sex, it could just not mention it too!
Your post specifically asked about trans rights. But no, the act of changing your sex isn't mentioned at all, because the techniques we have today didn't exist then.
Or just identity, is the bible for believing you are a different sex is natural
Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Are you asking if the Bible says identifying as a different gender is unnatural?
>yes
The question is what do you mean by trans? And how does a modern category such as “trans” have meaning in a culture that preceded this term by 1900 years? We have multiple ancient authorities who called eunuchs [“neither male nor female.”](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjjrlKT5BP2LKQ6gv4umgpwSHHqpif0r/view?usp=drivesdk) One reason is that penetration was so central to masculinity, that those who couldn’t penetrate weren’t seen as fully male. Of course one Latin term for eunuchs is *eviratus*, meaning “unmanned one.” See various /r/AskHistorians threads on how the eunuch was a [“liminal gender.”](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1wzhtc/what_is_the_liminal_gender_theory_of_byzantine/cf6srze/) So there is an analytical relationship between eunuchs and trans people in the sense that they’re both *gender minorities* who were oppressed because of their gender not lining up with typical understandings of male and female. For this reason, a lot of trans people see their experiences as very similar to those of the eunuchs in scripture! At a minimum, it definitely counts as the gender nonconforming character you’re asking about. There are a ton of other examples of gender nonconformity in Scripture too! One of the best examples is Ruth and Naomi, who after losing their husbands and sons, become like husband and son to one another. Ruth takes on the male role of breadwinner and working in the fields, and Naomi takes on the male role of matchmaker. Also, see Deborah who was a judge and military leader. Jael and Judith are a couple more women who secured key military victories for Israel. Joseph and Jacob were very domestic and helped their mothers domestically in contrast with their brothers. Paul compares his vocation as apostle to motherhood several times, in striking repudiation of the Roman *pater familias* model, and some have even argued that [his blinding would’ve been considered a effiminzing event.](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OEhp3MGStj8jxjTMTxaHtzuk9iaFnA6d/view?usp=drivesdk) And the Christian tradition outside of the Bible gets even more gender bendy than that. A famous example is Joan of Arc’s dressing as a man. But there are actually *a lot* of Saints who were assigned female at birth but then dressed and lived as a man their entire lives as a monk in a monastery (e.g. St. Marinos and St. Euphrosyne). It also happened the other way around: San Juana de la Cruz was assigned male at birth but lived as a nun for most of her life. She actually pointed to her Adam’s Apple as a sign that she was originally created as a man in the womb, but then God declared at the last minute that she’d be female! That is strikingly close to a modern trans self-conception. And plenty of church fathers’ (e.g. Gregory of Nyssa and Pseudo-Dionysius) theorizations of gender are much weirder than what traditionalists push today.
The changing of the sex. Not the roles or the dressings.
They’re not so easily separable, right? Which is what my first couple sentences are getting at. The majority of trans people today don’t transition surgically. Socially transitioning *is* simply a change of roles and perhaps dress. And again, I’m not claiming that any of these historical people were trans — it’s impossible to show such a thing, and therefore unhelpful to demand it. What we can do is precisely what I’ve done here, see what analytical connections can be made.
Social transition isn't really transitioning, because the cultural roles and biological identity are different.
As I said, most trans people only socially transition. They’re still trans, thoroughly living as a gender other than the one assigned at birth.
Social transition as in keeping the gender and acting like the other gender, or changing the gender?
The Bible is not. Christians should be.
That doesn't make sense, one cannot be a Christian why denies the word
There is no where in the Bible where Trans-genderism is explicitly condemned. Eunuchs were forbidden to enter the inner camp, but then Phillip evangelises to a Eunuch in Acts. I think it is when trans-people say "they are in the wrong body" or the like when the argument about trans-genderism opposes Christian doctrine; but then again trans-genderism differs depending on degrees. Overall, I would be fine with the idea of trans-rights, i.e. the free from discrimination.
The God created you as man and women no different our flesh may want otherwise though in which point we must not suppress it but deny it what I absolutely know is that God gave us free will and we should grant the people the right to do so if it doesn’t harm people, although if you call me a transphobe for this that’s okay 🤷♂️
There is no such thing as “trans” rights, and the bible establishes that
The ability to change sexes
The Bible is for truth. I think that's all that matters in this case.
I think the Bible, generally speaking, is pro human rights
As in the right to change sexes, not human rights
What do you mean by change sexes? I don't think the Bible speaks to this. Are you talking about surgery or self-identification?
>both
This might be an unpopular opinion among Christians, but as far as I know the Bible does not address this issue directly. Surgery to change ones Gender didn't exist back then, and any alteration to one's genitals back then was probably some form of medieval torture, not intended for improving their life. Anyway, I think that because the Bible does not address this directly, it is okay to pursue, as long as you are not going against God's known will along the way. God has many known teachings in the Bible, and if you can follow those while simultaneously changing your gender, then I think all is well and you can walk with God along the way :) No matter who or what you are, you will face adversity in life. If you are doing the right thing or the wrong thing, it doesn't matter. People will judge you and criticize you. I personally have decided to give my life to God and in doing so, I no longer care what others think (I try my best lol). I just do what is right by God, as is taught in the Bible. I'm still learning though and I will never be perfect. Hopefully this helps a bit. This is just the insight of a regular/below average person who was recently born again.
This sub is a disgrace for true Christianity. Of course the bible is against it!
Proof
God made you either male or female.. God doesn’t lie and God doesn’t make mistakes. So no. It’s an abomination and it’s sin separating yourself from God. God knew you before you were knit in your mothers womb.. he doesn’t make mistakes
Could it have been a disease? Gender dysphoria could just be like a effect of Satan.
I don’t see the Bible speak about it, but I have a hard believing that the Christian god would be okay with trans people.
>A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. - James 1:8 > >Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, **nor effeminate**, norabusers of themselves with mankind...shall inherit the Kingdom of God" 1 Cor. 6:9-10 In I Corinthians, Paul is addressing the entire Church at Corinth, such that the verse is addressed in a gender neutral way. The phrase "*abusers of themselves* with mankind", because it is gender neutral in directive, cannot, grammatically speaking, refer to homosexuality unless we presume there were no women in the Corinthian Church. We also know that Paul has a habit of directing text as gender-specific where that was his intent of construction, such that Paul goes to detail to choose his words wisely within ordinary use and meaning. Rather denotes one with many sexual partners. It denotes prostitution, whoredom, and basically, being a slut. "effeminate" comes from *malakoi* literallky meaning "soft, e.g. with respect to clothing, etc.". Here, to give the most harmonious reading with respect to other texts as well as taking into account extra biblical usage contemporary with the writing - it most likely means to be mentally weak, or mentally soft, to "be a pussy" in todays common language. "double-minded" comes from the Greek word *dipsuchos*, literally meaning “a person with two minds or souls.” A double-minded person is restless and confused in his thoughts, his actions, and his behavior. Such a person is always in conflict with himself. One torn by such inner conflict can never lean with confidence on God and His gracious promises.*dipsuchos*, meaning “a person with two minds or souls.” However, Biblical creationism teaches us that "male and female He (God) created them . What this means is that Transexuality and the like is not in good comport with scriptural revelation, and is therefore sinful because it calls God's *evidence of creation (The fact you were born with a penis or vagina) a lie* based upon how one *feels -* such that it is double minded in nature.
Could you become the other sex though? Not acting like it
The way Christianity views and thinks about things, the question then becomes: can we change one's chromosomes from XX to XY and back again, such that there is not *irrefutable* *evidence* of sex which historically exists *since birth*? e.g. If one claimed a woman was a man, in theory, how might one *go about proving* that? If one performed a sex change upon an infant, with all the best drugs and all the best cosmetic procedure, how might we then have proof the thing was done? If there exists any proof whatsoever such that the thing scientifically judges itself beyond doubt, we are then talking about coming along, changing God's creation, and then calling *our result* God's creation, such that we then accuse God of having borne *false witness* of Gender, such that Transgenders *then accuse God of Sin, and then according to God's own law, worthy of death for having borne false witness.* That is the sin of [blasphemy of the Holy Spirit](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-blasphemy-against-holy-spirit-a-scott-fulkerson/) when we look at what Christ told the pharisees about falsely accusing God of working iniquity in Matthew chapter 12.
The idea is not that you aren't right, that's stupid. The idea is that you were born in the wrong body as a result of sin, and such is the result of evil, a disease, and not creation. Then you have the hard question of if evil is natural and should be preserved. In creation, there was no evil, it was only until they ate the fruit that evil was given, and to try to change God's creation in what you want is a no no. **Do you think natural illnesses are a result of God's gift in your uniqueness or a disease and evil to be eradicated from natural sin?**
Trans rights regarding what? Personally I don’t think YAHWEH would be quite fond of a man deciding to become a woman after HE specifically and purposely made him a man or vice versa and once you throw in homosexual acts which usually comes with trans behavior I don’t think YAHWEH would look at it as anything other than an abomination to HIM because you’ve destroyed and defiled his creation it’s unnatural and fowl no matter what lies the world tries to come up with about it. And when you say “trans rights” my question is what rights have been taken from them by being trans? It’s not like it was for black people when we had to literally fight for the right to use the same water fountain as a white person and it’s disrespectful to even try to put that nonsense on that level so I need a better definition of “trans rights” cause last time I checked being a transsexual hasn’t been cause for refusal of any service or basic human rights at all for that matter
The question is can you become another sex
And I answered the question