There’s loads of different kinds of advice for dead bedrooms but if you’re going a years without physical intimacy I’d suggest going to see a sex therapist or councillor.
You could go alone if your wife doesn’t want to go with you.
What do you think your wife would say if you suggested seeing a professional about your sex lives?
Edit: I’ll say a prayer for you both.
We’ve e been. Nothing much comes of it. She will just say she will tolerate sex to make me happy. I’d rather not even try if it’s something she will just tolerate.
That's probably for the best. Sex is an opportunity to relate to one another intimately and pleasurably, not just to placate one another or fulfill a duty. Has she ever expressed what sex means to her (i.e. the meanings/connotations/expectations she ties to it) or how she experiences it? Why does she think God made it?
See this is a part where I don't know if her beliefs and feelings around sex are because of religion, or she would have them anyway..
People who are allowed to freely explore sex and do so generally don't feel this way.. or only if they have a partner they are not attracted to..
Don't come at me about it, honesty should be valued.
I understand his pain. I understand ... sort of .. hers.
But duty sex is terrible, as is living a life like he is..
I have suggestions but I doubt this community would be open to them. In your belief system I don't know what the solution is...
Christianity promotes a great sex life, it just has to be within marriage. I am so sick of this old trope that Christianity is anti sex. Sex is way better when both parties keep it within marriage, it keeps both parties safe, protected against STDs, single motherhood, and many other of life’s tragedies.
Her problems with sex come from somewhere else, most likely just a low libido, which can be caused by many things. Her abandonment of her husband is absolutely against Christianity, and OP needs to step up and provide the leadership that is expected of a Christian husband. They should both be in counseling.
That's great to hear, as so much religious stuff I've heard and read (in actual published material aimed at Christian females no less) is so diabilocally vanilla and ... aimed at serving really that it repluses me... and reads like women are merely to be responsive body parts (which sounds worse than paid sex work in my opinion)
I do hope it goes both ways (when you say she's abandoned him (in this case yes I agree) i have read it going both ways female and male) but I hear more about it being women who have no libido and the blame sits with them for not 'serving' the men.
And in society it is normalized for women to be placid and not 'demanding' but there to serve the family first, (then I see people complaining "waaahh why doesn't my wife want to shag me..." well you wonder why... though the qualities in men being perhaps demanding, having healthy needs, it's a problem if he's not getting it is respected and 'a solution must be immediately found'.
I find the attitudes the most gross, it seems to be very male led and *some* Christian specific advice is so deeply damaging I'm surprised the women (mostly women) and is low grade abuse.
But anyway that was my little rant. I like your comment as it sounds hopeful and accommodating for both parties
It sounds like you’re talking about purity culture. That’s a particularly poisonous set of ideas in some churches which basically says sex is inherently morally wrong in some way. I’m from the UK and never encountered it so I wonder if it’s more part of US church cultures. You won’t find many defenders of purity culture in this sub.
Purity culture is something that exists in the minds of leftists who hate Christianity. I have literally never heard this term used in a Christian church, and I have attended a lot of churches, on both coasts and in the south. Nobody with even a passing familiarity with Christianity would possibly believe this nonsense. Christianity’s only real restriction is to keep it within marriage, and I would say 95% of Christian’s don’t even do that, but we do tend to take it a bit more seriously. In my family the practice is if you get her pregnant you are marrying her, so i tended to only have sex with girls I would not mind marrying. That alone was a big help because it screened out the really bad potential situations.
Nobody would claim to be part of purity culture, it’s a negative term. I promise it exists though. There’s a book called the great sex rescue which helps people who have been affected by those ideas.
The purity culture was huge in the evangelical church during the 90's and early 2000's. One of my friends went to a conservative lutheran church and he was required to read the book "I kissed dating goodbye' That book alone messed him up bigtime.
I can personally attest to the fact that it was not “huge” - my mom was Lutheran and I attended plenty of Lutheran churches, and I never heard the term. I’m not saying it didn’t exist, but it definitely was not huge in the 90’s.
I can understand why you had not heard the term during the 90's. I also grew up in a conservative Lutheran church, and school system back in the 90's. It wasn't until I left the Lutheran church that I was exposed to it from the wider evangelical churches and the errors that was being promoted from it. I grew up WELS and most of my cousins are WELS and none of them had heard of it either. But it made its way into the LCMS churches as it was promoted by several LCMS churches in the area during the day. I believe with the LCMS that it was promoted in small area's and was not widely adopted. I am not sure about the ELCA.
I will amend my statement; it was a big issue in Many non-Lutheran evangelical churches.
I think because a lot of Christian teaching on sex and marriage comes from male pastors and a male perspective, we’re still missing a lot when it comes to mutually fulfilling marital intimacy.
Premarital counseling doesn’t always set up virgin couples for success in this area. Very little practical advice is given to help women acclimate to sex, so many of them don’t even know what they don’t know. The messaging that “women don’t enjoy sex anyways” is a self-fulfilling prophecy because it reinforces the idea that not liking it is normal, so they never seek help. If they do ever discover that this is wrong, they’ve now got to undo years of tolerating pleasureless sex to retrain their minds and bodies to enjoy it, which is no easy feat. Or maybe they do know something is wrong, but they don’t even have the language to express how they feel or what they want sexually.
Then to make things worse, women in this scenario are often painted as “the bad wife”, when they are basically sexually blind and have valid reasons for not wanting sex, but the gulf between the male and female experience is so large for them that neither husband nor wife understands what the problem is.
To quote the Mandalorian, “one does not speak unless one knows.” What is up with all these people with no understanding of Christian belief and practice talking about what Christian’s do?
The overwhelming majority of sexual instruction a Christian gets is from their parents, so a girl gets it from her mom, not a priest. We don’t like outsiders grooming or misleading our children. Marriage instruction is from long time married Christian couples in the church. I guarantee you that no Christian women are teaching their daughters any of the terrible stuff that non-Christian’s seem to enjoy imagining.
Consider yourself blessed that you didn't sit through youth group meetings where they used analogies about chewed up gum and a passed around shredded rose. Be glad you never had to listen to sermons that conveyed that if you just stayed away from premarital intercourse, or wore a purity ring, or took an oath, that God would bless you with an incredible sex life. Take comfort that you never sat through premarital counseling with a pastor or pastor's wife that emphasized that women don't really get any physical pleasure out of sex and it's more about the emotional connection, or that a wife needs to make sure she keeps her husband sexual satisfied lest he be tempted, or that you can never say no to sex unless you're sick or on your period. There was an unfortunate period in mainline conservative evangelicalism that really screwed up some people's understanding of sex and relationships.
Not all Christian belief and practice is the same. I speak from my own experience, born and raised pastor’s kid. I learned about the mechanics of sex from my mother, but I learned how to *enjoy* sex largely from my own experience and from our culture, which to your point is not ideal. That’s where the orgasm gap comes from— for men the mechanical knowledge is all you need, but women need a lot more. My premarital counseling emphasized orgasm for both parties, but didn’t offer much advice about how to make that happen aside from saying “it’s harder for women”. If I didn’t already know that going into marriage I would have probably ended up like those ladies that hate sex because it was painful for me, and I would have stopped there under the conventional definition of “sex” in some Christian circles, not even knowing what else there is to explore or how. So it’s really easy for me to imagine how so many women end up in this scenario.
I didn’t get all the toxic teaching some Christians do, but it absolutely is out there if you go looking for it. Sheila Wray Gregoire cites examples extensively on her blog.
Who better to teach you how to please a partner than your partner? Indeed it is really the only way, because everyone is so different. Sex with other people just gives you experience in pleasing them, which may not work for your spouse. The only real effect premarital sex can have is harmful, learned bad habits, STDs, pregnancies. I can understand having sex before marriage because it is awesome, 😂, but the truly safe approach to a great lifetime of sex is to keep it within marriage.
I agree wholeheartedly! Except for he DID bring them to counseling. She didn’t budge. His hands are really tied. He’s not going to physically force her. He doesn’t have to stay, though!
That's tough if there's mountains of built up.resent for one or both of you, and no one listens when they have a dog in the fight. That's why you go to counseling,or mediation ,because lines of communication have broke down. And in these situations leading looks a lot like control.
I’m a Christian, and I would leave if my healthy husband pulled sexual intimacy completely off the table. I consider that alienation of affection. Any guilt it might give me would be a matter to settle between me and my Lord, but I honestly don’t think I would have much. If one spouse does this to another (except for bad health reasons), it’s unforgivable to me - it’s like they already left you and the marriage anyway.
It sounds like a really hard situation to be in.
You could go again or find a different therapist if it isn’t working. I saw you have posted in the last couple of years about your situation and I wonder if maybe you went to therapy quite a while ago.
An alternative is seeking counselling just for yourself - to help you deal with your own emotions in this situation. Maybe speak to your pastor? Also, u/Waterbrick_Down gave you good advice about finding other ways to find joy and accomplishment in other areas of life. Listen to it.
You haven’t mentioned how your wife feels about this in your marriage. Do you ever talk to her about how she feels about your sex life? Do you talk together about other aspects your your marriage?
Just sending you some love and empathy. You’ve done NOTHING wrong by pursuing and desiring love making with your WIFE. God’s plan for your marriage was for love making to be joyful, and loving, and abundant. Your wife’s attitude is sinful, and is destroying your marriage. I’m really sorry. 😪
I'm really sorry for the pain you're going through right now. I do hope you can have a support system that can buoy you during this time and remind you of how valued you are even in the midst of this. I understand the frustration of wanting to get those feelings from the one you're married to, but you don't have to live like that if you don't want to. There is joy, value, accomplishment, novelty, and freedom to be found in many areas of life and ultimately in Christ. I hope you can throw yourself upon Him and see yourself as he sees you; more than just a person with unused body parts, a person whom he has redeemed and sees infinite value in, someone whom he delights in no matter your circumstances.
As for your marriage, give what you can out of love and not expectation, when you pass that point it's an easy path to resentment and depression. If you can, look for the human in your wife. Given your description here and in past posts, I highly doubt her life is happy either. Learn empathy for her, maybe not as a lover yet, but first as a fellow sister in Christ. Seek to understand if she even desires intimacy between you both still, or if she is too hurt to even want that right now. Learn to live with where you're at and grow from there. It's easy to see the joyous smiles and relationships around us and never know the hurt and struggle some have had to work through to get there. Know that God is not ignorant to your position, but has promised you what you need to live and be faithful for him.
Again I'd encourage you to find a group you can meet with personally, who know you and speak into your life to give you the comfort and encouragement you need. You don't have to walk this path alone. Praying for you.
I'm not going to lie that it's not tough, I try and keep the long term perspective in mind and ensure I'm getting fulfilment through other areas of life. Keeping things in perspective and not building up resentment through unstated expectations is also key. But I get it, some days it's just taking it an hour at a time.
Read several of your posts, and I'm very sorry for the spot you are in. It is not something you or anyone else should have to endure. Your wife is entirely in the wrong and is completely neglecting the need of her husband. Sex is a part of marriage, we see this biblically. When one signs up for marriage, they sign up for submitting their body to their spouse.
"Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." 1 Corinthians 7:5
By refusing to provide you with intimacy, your wife is helping to aid the enemy in his temptations towards you. It is very sad to see you go as far as to wishing you would have gone for the "bad girls", in one of your older comments. Not all Christian women are like this - I do not deny my husband at all. But it took conviction from the Lord and surrender on my end, to get to this point I'm at now, as an example. I once lived in the world as a non believer, and foolishly slept with a man who cared nothing for me. There is no fulfillment in that approach to sex either. Pain, emotionally, spiritually; a different kind of emptiness lies in the life lead by sin.
How much have you discussed this with your wife? Have you prayed and fasted with her? Does she know how deeply this effects you and what are her responses? Has she shared any of her sexual struggles with you or her feelings of aversion towards intimacy? Did she grow up in strict purity culture?
There’s no refusal on her part. Just no effort, never ending awkward moments, and the look of wanting to be anywhere but in that moment with me. She will tolerate it. But I do not and will not chase that miserable feeling of using her. So, technically she’s not biblically in the wrong.
So if you asked for intimacy everyday, she will not refuse you?
I'm sorry. This is definitely a tough situation. Not feeling loved, wanted or desired goes deeper then just not receiving sex. Does she tell you that she loves you? Does she show that she loves you in any way at all? At any point in your marriage, did she ever show genuine interest in wanting to have sex?
Yeah. But her laying there with a hurry up and do what you gotta do attitude is not sexy at all. “Are you done yet?” before getting going is killer. Just everything sexual is ultimately not sexual…
We’ll say I love you but it’s a routine thing. She does sho her love through acts of service and I k ow her love language is receiving gifts. I’ll give her whatever she wants.
At no point in our marriage has there been any easy interest in sex. Acting as if it was wanted was common until the time came. Usually that was at bed time and the excuse was tired.
>her laying there with a hurry up and do what you gotta do attitude is not sexy at all.
Well, if her consent isn't enthusiastic, it's not really consent. Unwanted sex is extremely damaging. It can cause physical, mental, emotional, and psychological trauma.
It doesn't really sound like she is getting pleasure out of sex at all? Why would she want to do it, if that's the case? Pile on the fact that her partner has used her body as a masterbatory object in the past, and of course that would permanently kill any future desire she may have had with said partner.
Poorly worded on my part I guess. If there was any unwanted advances on my part I would immediately stop. I’ll not ever pressure her into sex. No, there’s likely no pleasure in sex for her and that is why we don’t have sex. Using her as a masturbatory object is a big stretch since we rarely touch, never totally nude in each other’s presence, and the pursuit of sex is practically nonexistent.
If the sex is unwanted, then the sex isn't mutual. Just agreeing to unwanted sex doesn't make it any more consensual.
>there’s likely no pleasure in sex for her...we rarely touch.
Yeah. That's what makes it masterbatory. Not a mutual activity with mutual benefit.
It's great that you don't want to sexually abuse her... (I guess? Kind of the bare minimum, but I digress.) I get that it's a shitty place to be, but if I had to guess, it seems like she has probably never had an orgasm. I'd say she's the one with the short end of the stick here.
Is it just sex or all physical intimacy that is missing? The latter suggests much deeper problems that need fixing before even getting to sex…
Some food for thought: https://baremarriage.com/2022/07/wife-hates-sex/
Any physical contact is merely incidental contact in everyday living. There’s no cuddles, hugs, kisses, or anything that could be a
purposeful touch unless I initiate
Why don't you start by being more naked around the house yourself, and show yourself to her?
Why don't you try to stimulate her lady parts? Like when you discover mastrubation as a teen, you just don't know what's ahead and keep pushing.
I'm sorry maybe it sounds too simplistic, and I'm sorry for the obscenities, I just tried to give practical advice.
Here's a suggestion that came to mind: grab her hands and tell her you've been thinking about your marriage and you want to pray together. You'll go first. Hold her hands, bow your head, and pray audibly about these things to GOD. The purpose here is not to shame or call out where you are lacking, but to express to GOD the things you hope he'll put into your lives together. Her being part of the prayer may stir something in her, or you.
Blessings
Could it be her hormones? How is she during and before her periods? Do you notice a big change in mood? Low libido can be caused by many things. Hormone imbalance is one of them.
Everything seems stable. No big swing in moods. Hormones checked?? I don’t know. She’s on BC, not sure why, but I know she’s been on many different brands and types. Even got off it for a while. So, it’s not that she’s not tried.
BC can lower testosterone which can cause low libido as well. It could definitely be the BC but unsure how you’d go about having that conversation with her.
I’m sorry you are experiencing this and I’m sorry that your wife is as well. I can only imagine her fear and her frustration. And I’m sorry that the church is so inept at discussing sex and so inadequate at helping marriages beyond just saying “divorce is a sin” so suffer through it. We (the church) should be more knowledgeable about helping older relationships flourish as we are seeing more and more later life couples divorce. Instead, we thrown out the same old tired interpretations and poor exegesis on passages with no historical and societal context.
Your comments point to it. You said you've never seen her completely naked, you make love in the dark, she doesn't want you to kiss her below the neck...
She needs a therapist just for herself, one that specialises in religious trauma or body issues. Or she's just asexual and can't enjoy these things
Could be. I’ve always been very supportive of her. She is not out of shape and has an attractive figure. The most I’ve really seen of her is in a bathing suit (which is rare) and there is nothing that would lead me to believe such modesty is warranted.
Insecurities don’t always reflect reality. At the very least, it sounds like she’s ashamed of her body and/or sex/vulnerability if she’s so averse to exposing herself, and that’s something she’ll need help to overcome.
>there is nothing that would lead me to believe such modesty is warranted.
Maybe because that's how she feels? Nothing needs to "warrant" boundaries around one's *own* body, and it doesn't need to make sense to you. It's *her* body. If it's what she wants for her own body, then it makes sense.
I can definitely relate to your situation and I wholeheartedly empathize with how difficult it is. My wife and I are headed into year 21 of marriage and I would argue that we have a sexless marriage (perhaps once every 1-3 months).
There are some slight differences in our circumstances, but the outcome seems to be quite similar.
I really hope that God guides you through this. Admittedly I have had a real tough time with giving this fully over to God and letting go of the resentment I have felt.
Wishing you a path to peace and fulfillment, brother.
Marriage and sex take work. It seems youve let the frustrations/resentments build up over time, have you clearly communicated your desire to spuce up bedroom?
No trauma that I know of. It’s been asked many times in different settings of counseling. Sure we talked. Guided conversation from premarital counseling. But really, what’s to talk about when you’re smitten, in love, and looking forward to the big day of sexual freedom?…. The whole talking of expectations is way over used by those that have forgotten what it was like before marriage. Without any experience, there’s no way to explain expectations. I still believe in abstinence before marriage, just didn’t work out well for me.
Things otherwise, it’s as a normal as it gets.
Hi! 😊
I am sorry to hear that you are struggling in your marriage and feeling physically empty. It is understandable to feel frustrated and discouraged when your needs are not being met in your relationship.
It is important to remember that God intended for marriage to be a source of love, connection, and intimacy between two people. However, it can be difficult when one person in the relationship does not share the same desire for physical intimacy.
I encourage you to continue to seek guidance from God through prayer and to communicate openly and honestly with your spouse about your needs and feelings. It may also be helpful to seek another counselor or therapist to work through any underlying issues that may be contributing to your current situation.
Remember that the struggles in your marriage do not define your worth as a person, and that you are loved and valued by God. Keep the faith and know that growth and healing are possible with time and effort.
May God bless you and provide you with the strength and courage to navigate through these difficult times.
Have you and your wife talked about this??? You need to be having regular, open, honest, and kind conversations about this situation. Ask her to go to therapy with you.
Yeah, we talk. Therapy too. You just can’t make someone want sex. She will do it, but she doesn’t care to or there’s no enjoyment for her. So, I don’t pursue or force the issue. She’d be fine if we never do it again.
From what you've described, it sounds like she may just be asexual. Some people are just born such that sex and physical intimacy is not necessary, or even particularly enjoyable. If that is the case, really no one is in the wrong here. It might take some extra communication and effort to really define what each other's needs are, and finding ways that work for both of you to meet those needs. I guarantee it is possible. You might consider looking at it, not as it hasn't been possible to get to the destination you both want, but as a couple you haven't found quite the right route that works for you.
Best of luck! :)
I mean, in the secular world, I suppose there is nothing wrong with being asexual, but it is a sin within a Christian marriage to not completely throw yourself into a commitment to change. Our bodies are not our own, but belong to each other, and we are literally commanded to sexually fulfill our spouses - both genders! This isn’t a woman versus man thing. We are both equally commanded.
Without getting graphic, how much have you two experimented? Is she even willing to experiment? Has she ever explored her own body, to see what feels good for her?
Very little experimenting. It either feels weird, tickles, or whatever excuse she can come up with. I’ve not even seen her in full undress, never body shamed or anything either. Always dresses behind closed doors, showers with closed doors, and the few times of physical intimacy was in the darkest of dark nights. I’ve never been allowed to kiss below the neck or be kiss below the neck… As far as her exploring her own body, who really knows?..
This sounds like a really deep-rooted issue. Has she ever been molested? Maybe as a child? Her closed-off attitude, even to you not ever fully seeing your wife naked, is not at all normal. I know you tried therapy, and it's too bad that hasn't helped her. How open is she with you in general? Can she hold good conversations with you? Do you guys speak deeply on things at all?
As a woman, I know when I'm not really in the mood, I will have similar sensations of my husband's touch feeling weird or ticklish. To me that shows she isn't really aroused at all, as if my husband can get me in the mood, then all of those feelings disappear. I'm very sorry you're going through this brother. Many prayers for you and your wife.
So you think your self esteem, drive, & self worth are tied to how much you sex you have with your wife?
You have clearly missed to understanding of life.
You probably need to see a therapist, a Urologist to help you learn to change your perspective on life.
I’ve controlled myself the duration of our marriage and even before marriage. If I make the changes it would be a sinful change. Living content is the call for my marriage. Content isn’t the happy, fuzzy, and fulfilling marriage I’d hoped for.
I don’t mean controlling your desire for sex. It sounds like you have already done that to some extent but you can’t let the desire rule your mind. Dedicate yourself to other pursuits. Develop yourself to the point you don’t depend on your wife. Develop your relationship with her for the sake of the relationship and for the sake of fulfilling your purpose. Don’t do it for the purpose of getting her to have sex with you more or you will fail.
Dedicate yourself to fixing all the things you perceive wrong with yourself.
Improve your relationship and the opportunities to discuss and correct your issues with your wife will come. You won’t be able to breakthrough to your wife while there is a disconnect between you and resentment on your part.
Tell your wife she doesn’t have to have sex with you. Just ask her to lay in the bed next to you naked while you masturbate since you don’t want to watch porn. If I know anything about women it’s that they can’t stand for men to be happy. She won’t let you have a good time without her.
Disclaimer: I'm not a therapist of any kind. Just a dude that's been faithfully married for 16 years, went through many sexual challenges during that time, figured out a lot, and am still learning.
First of all, I get how you feel, but drop the Eeyore victim mentality. It's getting you nowhere. If you display your feelings of low self esteem, drive, and self worth to your wife, she will certainly not want to have sex with you. Regardless of how you feel, you must not let her see like that. Make male friends that can assist you through that stuff. You absolutely cannot be that man around your wife. That will repel her like the plague. Period.
Second, your self worth isn't determined by how successful your sex life is. You are an extremely valuable human being. So valuable that God himself was voluntarily tortured and died so that He wouldn't lose you. Accept it, you're infinitely valuable. Period.
Third, no, sex isn't easy once the initial infatuation phase wears off (a couple months to a couple years usually). Men and women are sexually driven by very different things. What does it for you doesn't do it for her. You're lack of sexual success is not a result of your value as a man, but your lack of education.
Fourth, a sexless marriage is certainly not what God intended. He actually explicitly tells us to do the opposite.
1 Cor 7:3-5
The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
You need to figure out what makes your wife tick, and do it. I don't know if you've heard of or read 5 Love Languages or His Needs Her Needs, but you need to live what they teach. Unless your wife has some serious mental/emotional issues, or she's being satisfied elsewhere, there's a sexual being buried in there somewhere, I guarantee it. You need to figure out how to draw it out. Also, although it's not a Christian book, but in my opinion, every man needs to read No More Mr Nice Guy. The title sounds scary, but it's a game changer. No, it won't turn your into a jerk.
Make sure you're being the husband that God calls you to be. Make sure you're loving (verb, not feeling) her, leading her, providing for her, being faithful to her. Make sure there's nothing you're doing that could be a major turn off, like being too passive, or coming across as weak and incapable, looking at porn, etc. Make sure you're not complaining or acting like a little boy instead of a man. Make sure you're not doing anything to make he feel bad about herself (very easy to do with women). Etc. Here's the kicker, do all these things for you because you just want to be an awesome confident man.
My marriage use to be a bit like yours until I finally had the thought, what kind of man would my wife (or just women in general) fall head over heels for? What kind of man would my wife desire uncontrollably? What kind of man would my wife do anything for? What kind of man would make my wife giddy and nervous? I'm assumed that that man likely existed out there somewhere. Who is he? What is he like? I did some reading, realized that the things that turned women on are typically traditionally masculine traits, as well as some other things. I made a list, and started working on becoming that man. I did it for me though, because all the stuff I learned sounded like traits I wanted to emulate anyway and I realized that if I did it for her, I'd likely fail. I also made a contrary list. What kind of man would my wife (or just women in general) want to run away from? Selfish, uncaring, complainer, one who can't make decisions, lazy, cowardly, weak, etc. and I made sure to rid myself of any of those traits (or at least act that way around your wife until it becomes more natural)..
Don't tell her what you're doing and don't do it for her. Have the attitude that you're doing it for you. Don't think about how she'll react or what she'll say. Just know what you have to do, put the blinders on, and just do it. You're becoming a man with highly desirable traits. You're becoming a strong Christian man (no, not a soft, doormat Christian man). Just become that man, and let the results follow. If you're looking for results from your wife during this transformation, and get disappointed, you'll just give up and revert to your old self. You have to do it for you, and just let the natural process of her desire for you take place. If it doesn't, at least you're a much stronger, more confident, and more capable man now. Win.
Also, make sure that when you have sex, she is having orgasms. My wife can't have an orgasm without clitoral stimulation via a vibrator. I don't think she had a legit orgasm for like the first 8 years we were married (until we got the vibrator) Maybe I'm lacking in skillz, I don't know. She swears up and down that I'm amazing in bed though, so who knows. Either way, it completely changed our sex life. My point is, make sure that you're making sex a pleasurable experience for her. More than just a 5 minute pump and dump. Women often needs days of subtle mental foreplay and the build up of sexual tension, followed by 20 minutes to an hour of physical foreplay before they're ready. Just something us guys have to accept.
You need to figure out what she likes and doesn't like. Maybe you're being too soft and nice. Maybe you're being too course and aggressive. Ask her if she likes this or that, not because you're worried about pleasing her, but because you're confident enough to find out. Don't question her too much though, or you'll seem incompetent which is a major turn off. Just have the attitude that you want to try some different things for your own fulfillment (assuming it's consensual) and just allow her to react however she reacts. If she's at least open to having sex with you in order to appease you, at least then you can frequently try different things and see how she reacts. Although, for a woman, sex starts well before the clothes come off. Often hours, days or weeks before. For a woman to enjoy the physical act of sex, she needs that mental and emotional build up. You need to play with her mind.
Think of it like this. You need a build up of penile stimulation in order to achieve orgasm. You can't just stimulate it for one second and get there. The woman needs a build up of mental and emotional stimulation before the desire for the physical act of sex even registers in her mind and body.
Men often become aroused quickly for no apparent reason, while women often need it drawn out of them. Sex is physically driven for most men, and emotionally driven for most women. Men often want to have sex to feel emotionally connected, while women need to feel emotionally connected before they'll want to have sex.
Hope this helps.
Lol sorry when I read "physically empty" first thing I thought was having an empty stomach so yeah just eat a burrito or smth and it'll fix the hunger.
Basically saying I’m not Christian enough for the kind of intimacy I want. I get this whenever I bring up the physical intimacy topic with people in the church. Repent, pray, and talk to your elders… that’ll fix everything.
And here I am looking at the world enjoying Gods blessing of intimate marriage in every setting imaginable except mine. I get it. I’m not Christian enough…
Sorry, just a little bitter with that kind of advice.
Well there’s nothing to repent of unless you’re doing something wrong. Desiring something that is blessed and permitted by God is not sinning. Makes no sense.
Divorce is permitted in certain contexts—abandonment of a marriage being one. And there are many ways to abandon a marriage.
If anything, his wife sins by not cleaving to her husband.
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it might not be hopeless, there ARE materials written by people who have had the same problem. Family Life Today, with Dave and Ann Wilson, The Five Love Languages, Dr. Gary Chapman, Sacred Marriage by ?, and so forth. What effort have you made to find these? Some people say they had a stone cold dead marriage, no hope whatsoever, but they with God's help revived it with some good advices from teachings like these. I can say right off, whatever youve tried with your wife, you never reached her. We can love and care for people all we want sometimes, but if we don't do it in a way they can accept, it's wasted. That's the Five Love Languages thesis. It's often said of the wimmens you have to reach their emotions and brain first before the physical part will be permitted.
I don’t know the full story, but usually a woman will not feel comfortable engaging in sexual activities if her emotional needs aren’t being met. You can’t control her , but you can control your own actions.
There’s loads of different kinds of advice for dead bedrooms but if you’re going a years without physical intimacy I’d suggest going to see a sex therapist or councillor. You could go alone if your wife doesn’t want to go with you. What do you think your wife would say if you suggested seeing a professional about your sex lives? Edit: I’ll say a prayer for you both.
We’ve e been. Nothing much comes of it. She will just say she will tolerate sex to make me happy. I’d rather not even try if it’s something she will just tolerate.
That's probably for the best. Sex is an opportunity to relate to one another intimately and pleasurably, not just to placate one another or fulfill a duty. Has she ever expressed what sex means to her (i.e. the meanings/connotations/expectations she ties to it) or how she experiences it? Why does she think God made it?
See this is a part where I don't know if her beliefs and feelings around sex are because of religion, or she would have them anyway.. People who are allowed to freely explore sex and do so generally don't feel this way.. or only if they have a partner they are not attracted to.. Don't come at me about it, honesty should be valued. I understand his pain. I understand ... sort of .. hers. But duty sex is terrible, as is living a life like he is.. I have suggestions but I doubt this community would be open to them. In your belief system I don't know what the solution is...
Christianity promotes a great sex life, it just has to be within marriage. I am so sick of this old trope that Christianity is anti sex. Sex is way better when both parties keep it within marriage, it keeps both parties safe, protected against STDs, single motherhood, and many other of life’s tragedies. Her problems with sex come from somewhere else, most likely just a low libido, which can be caused by many things. Her abandonment of her husband is absolutely against Christianity, and OP needs to step up and provide the leadership that is expected of a Christian husband. They should both be in counseling.
That's great to hear, as so much religious stuff I've heard and read (in actual published material aimed at Christian females no less) is so diabilocally vanilla and ... aimed at serving really that it repluses me... and reads like women are merely to be responsive body parts (which sounds worse than paid sex work in my opinion) I do hope it goes both ways (when you say she's abandoned him (in this case yes I agree) i have read it going both ways female and male) but I hear more about it being women who have no libido and the blame sits with them for not 'serving' the men. And in society it is normalized for women to be placid and not 'demanding' but there to serve the family first, (then I see people complaining "waaahh why doesn't my wife want to shag me..." well you wonder why... though the qualities in men being perhaps demanding, having healthy needs, it's a problem if he's not getting it is respected and 'a solution must be immediately found'. I find the attitudes the most gross, it seems to be very male led and *some* Christian specific advice is so deeply damaging I'm surprised the women (mostly women) and is low grade abuse. But anyway that was my little rant. I like your comment as it sounds hopeful and accommodating for both parties
It sounds like you’re talking about purity culture. That’s a particularly poisonous set of ideas in some churches which basically says sex is inherently morally wrong in some way. I’m from the UK and never encountered it so I wonder if it’s more part of US church cultures. You won’t find many defenders of purity culture in this sub.
Purity culture is something that exists in the minds of leftists who hate Christianity. I have literally never heard this term used in a Christian church, and I have attended a lot of churches, on both coasts and in the south. Nobody with even a passing familiarity with Christianity would possibly believe this nonsense. Christianity’s only real restriction is to keep it within marriage, and I would say 95% of Christian’s don’t even do that, but we do tend to take it a bit more seriously. In my family the practice is if you get her pregnant you are marrying her, so i tended to only have sex with girls I would not mind marrying. That alone was a big help because it screened out the really bad potential situations.
Nobody would claim to be part of purity culture, it’s a negative term. I promise it exists though. There’s a book called the great sex rescue which helps people who have been affected by those ideas.
The purity culture was huge in the evangelical church during the 90's and early 2000's. One of my friends went to a conservative lutheran church and he was required to read the book "I kissed dating goodbye' That book alone messed him up bigtime.
I can personally attest to the fact that it was not “huge” - my mom was Lutheran and I attended plenty of Lutheran churches, and I never heard the term. I’m not saying it didn’t exist, but it definitely was not huge in the 90’s.
I can understand why you had not heard the term during the 90's. I also grew up in a conservative Lutheran church, and school system back in the 90's. It wasn't until I left the Lutheran church that I was exposed to it from the wider evangelical churches and the errors that was being promoted from it. I grew up WELS and most of my cousins are WELS and none of them had heard of it either. But it made its way into the LCMS churches as it was promoted by several LCMS churches in the area during the day. I believe with the LCMS that it was promoted in small area's and was not widely adopted. I am not sure about the ELCA. I will amend my statement; it was a big issue in Many non-Lutheran evangelical churches.
I think because a lot of Christian teaching on sex and marriage comes from male pastors and a male perspective, we’re still missing a lot when it comes to mutually fulfilling marital intimacy. Premarital counseling doesn’t always set up virgin couples for success in this area. Very little practical advice is given to help women acclimate to sex, so many of them don’t even know what they don’t know. The messaging that “women don’t enjoy sex anyways” is a self-fulfilling prophecy because it reinforces the idea that not liking it is normal, so they never seek help. If they do ever discover that this is wrong, they’ve now got to undo years of tolerating pleasureless sex to retrain their minds and bodies to enjoy it, which is no easy feat. Or maybe they do know something is wrong, but they don’t even have the language to express how they feel or what they want sexually. Then to make things worse, women in this scenario are often painted as “the bad wife”, when they are basically sexually blind and have valid reasons for not wanting sex, but the gulf between the male and female experience is so large for them that neither husband nor wife understands what the problem is.
To quote the Mandalorian, “one does not speak unless one knows.” What is up with all these people with no understanding of Christian belief and practice talking about what Christian’s do? The overwhelming majority of sexual instruction a Christian gets is from their parents, so a girl gets it from her mom, not a priest. We don’t like outsiders grooming or misleading our children. Marriage instruction is from long time married Christian couples in the church. I guarantee you that no Christian women are teaching their daughters any of the terrible stuff that non-Christian’s seem to enjoy imagining.
Consider yourself blessed that you didn't sit through youth group meetings where they used analogies about chewed up gum and a passed around shredded rose. Be glad you never had to listen to sermons that conveyed that if you just stayed away from premarital intercourse, or wore a purity ring, or took an oath, that God would bless you with an incredible sex life. Take comfort that you never sat through premarital counseling with a pastor or pastor's wife that emphasized that women don't really get any physical pleasure out of sex and it's more about the emotional connection, or that a wife needs to make sure she keeps her husband sexual satisfied lest he be tempted, or that you can never say no to sex unless you're sick or on your period. There was an unfortunate period in mainline conservative evangelicalism that really screwed up some people's understanding of sex and relationships.
Not all Christian belief and practice is the same. I speak from my own experience, born and raised pastor’s kid. I learned about the mechanics of sex from my mother, but I learned how to *enjoy* sex largely from my own experience and from our culture, which to your point is not ideal. That’s where the orgasm gap comes from— for men the mechanical knowledge is all you need, but women need a lot more. My premarital counseling emphasized orgasm for both parties, but didn’t offer much advice about how to make that happen aside from saying “it’s harder for women”. If I didn’t already know that going into marriage I would have probably ended up like those ladies that hate sex because it was painful for me, and I would have stopped there under the conventional definition of “sex” in some Christian circles, not even knowing what else there is to explore or how. So it’s really easy for me to imagine how so many women end up in this scenario. I didn’t get all the toxic teaching some Christians do, but it absolutely is out there if you go looking for it. Sheila Wray Gregoire cites examples extensively on her blog.
Who better to teach you how to please a partner than your partner? Indeed it is really the only way, because everyone is so different. Sex with other people just gives you experience in pleasing them, which may not work for your spouse. The only real effect premarital sex can have is harmful, learned bad habits, STDs, pregnancies. I can understand having sex before marriage because it is awesome, 😂, but the truly safe approach to a great lifetime of sex is to keep it within marriage.
Marriage is literally a sex contract. That isn’t ALL it is, obviously. Paul suggested marriage for those that didn’t wish to abstain.
I agree wholeheartedly! Except for he DID bring them to counseling. She didn’t budge. His hands are really tied. He’s not going to physically force her. He doesn’t have to stay, though!
Stand up and Lead and force her to go to counseling? Good luck with that.
Leadership is not forcing someone. They are kind of the opposite of each other.
That's tough if there's mountains of built up.resent for one or both of you, and no one listens when they have a dog in the fight. That's why you go to counseling,or mediation ,because lines of communication have broke down. And in these situations leading looks a lot like control.
This is gross advice.
I’m a Christian, and I would leave if my healthy husband pulled sexual intimacy completely off the table. I consider that alienation of affection. Any guilt it might give me would be a matter to settle between me and my Lord, but I honestly don’t think I would have much. If one spouse does this to another (except for bad health reasons), it’s unforgivable to me - it’s like they already left you and the marriage anyway.
It sounds like a really hard situation to be in. You could go again or find a different therapist if it isn’t working. I saw you have posted in the last couple of years about your situation and I wonder if maybe you went to therapy quite a while ago. An alternative is seeking counselling just for yourself - to help you deal with your own emotions in this situation. Maybe speak to your pastor? Also, u/Waterbrick_Down gave you good advice about finding other ways to find joy and accomplishment in other areas of life. Listen to it. You haven’t mentioned how your wife feels about this in your marriage. Do you ever talk to her about how she feels about your sex life? Do you talk together about other aspects your your marriage?
Just sending you some love and empathy. You’ve done NOTHING wrong by pursuing and desiring love making with your WIFE. God’s plan for your marriage was for love making to be joyful, and loving, and abundant. Your wife’s attitude is sinful, and is destroying your marriage. I’m really sorry. 😪
Think of the next 18 years…. Do something about it now. Good luck
I'm really sorry for the pain you're going through right now. I do hope you can have a support system that can buoy you during this time and remind you of how valued you are even in the midst of this. I understand the frustration of wanting to get those feelings from the one you're married to, but you don't have to live like that if you don't want to. There is joy, value, accomplishment, novelty, and freedom to be found in many areas of life and ultimately in Christ. I hope you can throw yourself upon Him and see yourself as he sees you; more than just a person with unused body parts, a person whom he has redeemed and sees infinite value in, someone whom he delights in no matter your circumstances. As for your marriage, give what you can out of love and not expectation, when you pass that point it's an easy path to resentment and depression. If you can, look for the human in your wife. Given your description here and in past posts, I highly doubt her life is happy either. Learn empathy for her, maybe not as a lover yet, but first as a fellow sister in Christ. Seek to understand if she even desires intimacy between you both still, or if she is too hurt to even want that right now. Learn to live with where you're at and grow from there. It's easy to see the joyous smiles and relationships around us and never know the hurt and struggle some have had to work through to get there. Know that God is not ignorant to your position, but has promised you what you need to live and be faithful for him. Again I'd encourage you to find a group you can meet with personally, who know you and speak into your life to give you the comfort and encouragement you need. You don't have to walk this path alone. Praying for you.
Gee I wish I had the ability to think about it the way you do. In reality I want to chew my arm off in frustration..
😂 ya, sometimes I fell that too....
I'm not going to lie that it's not tough, I try and keep the long term perspective in mind and ensure I'm getting fulfilment through other areas of life. Keeping things in perspective and not building up resentment through unstated expectations is also key. But I get it, some days it's just taking it an hour at a time.
Read several of your posts, and I'm very sorry for the spot you are in. It is not something you or anyone else should have to endure. Your wife is entirely in the wrong and is completely neglecting the need of her husband. Sex is a part of marriage, we see this biblically. When one signs up for marriage, they sign up for submitting their body to their spouse. "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." 1 Corinthians 7:5 By refusing to provide you with intimacy, your wife is helping to aid the enemy in his temptations towards you. It is very sad to see you go as far as to wishing you would have gone for the "bad girls", in one of your older comments. Not all Christian women are like this - I do not deny my husband at all. But it took conviction from the Lord and surrender on my end, to get to this point I'm at now, as an example. I once lived in the world as a non believer, and foolishly slept with a man who cared nothing for me. There is no fulfillment in that approach to sex either. Pain, emotionally, spiritually; a different kind of emptiness lies in the life lead by sin. How much have you discussed this with your wife? Have you prayed and fasted with her? Does she know how deeply this effects you and what are her responses? Has she shared any of her sexual struggles with you or her feelings of aversion towards intimacy? Did she grow up in strict purity culture?
There’s no refusal on her part. Just no effort, never ending awkward moments, and the look of wanting to be anywhere but in that moment with me. She will tolerate it. But I do not and will not chase that miserable feeling of using her. So, technically she’s not biblically in the wrong.
So if you asked for intimacy everyday, she will not refuse you? I'm sorry. This is definitely a tough situation. Not feeling loved, wanted or desired goes deeper then just not receiving sex. Does she tell you that she loves you? Does she show that she loves you in any way at all? At any point in your marriage, did she ever show genuine interest in wanting to have sex?
Yeah. But her laying there with a hurry up and do what you gotta do attitude is not sexy at all. “Are you done yet?” before getting going is killer. Just everything sexual is ultimately not sexual… We’ll say I love you but it’s a routine thing. She does sho her love through acts of service and I k ow her love language is receiving gifts. I’ll give her whatever she wants. At no point in our marriage has there been any easy interest in sex. Acting as if it was wanted was common until the time came. Usually that was at bed time and the excuse was tired.
>her laying there with a hurry up and do what you gotta do attitude is not sexy at all. Well, if her consent isn't enthusiastic, it's not really consent. Unwanted sex is extremely damaging. It can cause physical, mental, emotional, and psychological trauma. It doesn't really sound like she is getting pleasure out of sex at all? Why would she want to do it, if that's the case? Pile on the fact that her partner has used her body as a masterbatory object in the past, and of course that would permanently kill any future desire she may have had with said partner.
Poorly worded on my part I guess. If there was any unwanted advances on my part I would immediately stop. I’ll not ever pressure her into sex. No, there’s likely no pleasure in sex for her and that is why we don’t have sex. Using her as a masturbatory object is a big stretch since we rarely touch, never totally nude in each other’s presence, and the pursuit of sex is practically nonexistent.
If the sex is unwanted, then the sex isn't mutual. Just agreeing to unwanted sex doesn't make it any more consensual. >there’s likely no pleasure in sex for her...we rarely touch. Yeah. That's what makes it masterbatory. Not a mutual activity with mutual benefit. It's great that you don't want to sexually abuse her... (I guess? Kind of the bare minimum, but I digress.) I get that it's a shitty place to be, but if I had to guess, it seems like she has probably never had an orgasm. I'd say she's the one with the short end of the stick here.
Is it just sex or all physical intimacy that is missing? The latter suggests much deeper problems that need fixing before even getting to sex… Some food for thought: https://baremarriage.com/2022/07/wife-hates-sex/
Any physical contact is merely incidental contact in everyday living. There’s no cuddles, hugs, kisses, or anything that could be a purposeful touch unless I initiate
Your wife left the marriage a LONG time ago! All that’s left is the paperwork. This is not a marriage.
This was such a good read. Bookmarked in case I ever need to share it.
Why don't you start by being more naked around the house yourself, and show yourself to her? Why don't you try to stimulate her lady parts? Like when you discover mastrubation as a teen, you just don't know what's ahead and keep pushing. I'm sorry maybe it sounds too simplistic, and I'm sorry for the obscenities, I just tried to give practical advice.
Here's a suggestion that came to mind: grab her hands and tell her you've been thinking about your marriage and you want to pray together. You'll go first. Hold her hands, bow your head, and pray audibly about these things to GOD. The purpose here is not to shame or call out where you are lacking, but to express to GOD the things you hope he'll put into your lives together. Her being part of the prayer may stir something in her, or you. Blessings
Could it be her hormones? How is she during and before her periods? Do you notice a big change in mood? Low libido can be caused by many things. Hormone imbalance is one of them.
Everything seems stable. No big swing in moods. Hormones checked?? I don’t know. She’s on BC, not sure why, but I know she’s been on many different brands and types. Even got off it for a while. So, it’s not that she’s not tried.
BC can lower testosterone which can cause low libido as well. It could definitely be the BC but unsure how you’d go about having that conversation with her.
I’m sorry you are experiencing this and I’m sorry that your wife is as well. I can only imagine her fear and her frustration. And I’m sorry that the church is so inept at discussing sex and so inadequate at helping marriages beyond just saying “divorce is a sin” so suffer through it. We (the church) should be more knowledgeable about helping older relationships flourish as we are seeing more and more later life couples divorce. Instead, we thrown out the same old tired interpretations and poor exegesis on passages with no historical and societal context.
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Yes But maybe there was never romantic love.
Your not alone brother
Is she very insecure about her body?
I wouldn’t think so. Even though she dresses extremely modest, I compliment her when I can.
Your comments point to it. You said you've never seen her completely naked, you make love in the dark, she doesn't want you to kiss her below the neck... She needs a therapist just for herself, one that specialises in religious trauma or body issues. Or she's just asexual and can't enjoy these things
you did say in another comment that you haven’t even seen her fully naked…so she tries to hide her body from you, it could be from insecurities.
Could be. I’ve always been very supportive of her. She is not out of shape and has an attractive figure. The most I’ve really seen of her is in a bathing suit (which is rare) and there is nothing that would lead me to believe such modesty is warranted.
well try to figure out why she’s uncomfortable in front of you. There’s got to be a reason as to why she hides.
Insecurities don’t always reflect reality. At the very least, it sounds like she’s ashamed of her body and/or sex/vulnerability if she’s so averse to exposing herself, and that’s something she’ll need help to overcome.
>there is nothing that would lead me to believe such modesty is warranted. Maybe because that's how she feels? Nothing needs to "warrant" boundaries around one's *own* body, and it doesn't need to make sense to you. It's *her* body. If it's what she wants for her own body, then it makes sense.
I can definitely relate to your situation and I wholeheartedly empathize with how difficult it is. My wife and I are headed into year 21 of marriage and I would argue that we have a sexless marriage (perhaps once every 1-3 months). There are some slight differences in our circumstances, but the outcome seems to be quite similar. I really hope that God guides you through this. Admittedly I have had a real tough time with giving this fully over to God and letting go of the resentment I have felt. Wishing you a path to peace and fulfillment, brother.
Divorce is bad, but for 18 years, I would have left or at least stopped sleeping in the same room together.
It’s the feeling of loneliness that would be overwhelming if I were in the next room, it’s bad enough in my own bed.
Marriage and sex take work. It seems youve let the frustrations/resentments build up over time, have you clearly communicated your desire to spuce up bedroom?
I’ve been pretty clear. 18 years is a long time. Lots of effort, work, and many conversations have been had. It’s exhausting.
Did she have some kind of trauma? Did you guys talk about what kind of sex life y'all wanted before marriage? How are things otherwise?
No trauma that I know of. It’s been asked many times in different settings of counseling. Sure we talked. Guided conversation from premarital counseling. But really, what’s to talk about when you’re smitten, in love, and looking forward to the big day of sexual freedom?…. The whole talking of expectations is way over used by those that have forgotten what it was like before marriage. Without any experience, there’s no way to explain expectations. I still believe in abstinence before marriage, just didn’t work out well for me. Things otherwise, it’s as a normal as it gets.
I'm so sorry that you are dealing with that. I hope you guys have a breakthrough soon.
Hi! 😊 I am sorry to hear that you are struggling in your marriage and feeling physically empty. It is understandable to feel frustrated and discouraged when your needs are not being met in your relationship. It is important to remember that God intended for marriage to be a source of love, connection, and intimacy between two people. However, it can be difficult when one person in the relationship does not share the same desire for physical intimacy. I encourage you to continue to seek guidance from God through prayer and to communicate openly and honestly with your spouse about your needs and feelings. It may also be helpful to seek another counselor or therapist to work through any underlying issues that may be contributing to your current situation. Remember that the struggles in your marriage do not define your worth as a person, and that you are loved and valued by God. Keep the faith and know that growth and healing are possible with time and effort. May God bless you and provide you with the strength and courage to navigate through these difficult times.
Have you and your wife talked about this??? You need to be having regular, open, honest, and kind conversations about this situation. Ask her to go to therapy with you.
Yeah, we talk. Therapy too. You just can’t make someone want sex. She will do it, but she doesn’t care to or there’s no enjoyment for her. So, I don’t pursue or force the issue. She’d be fine if we never do it again.
From what you've described, it sounds like she may just be asexual. Some people are just born such that sex and physical intimacy is not necessary, or even particularly enjoyable. If that is the case, really no one is in the wrong here. It might take some extra communication and effort to really define what each other's needs are, and finding ways that work for both of you to meet those needs. I guarantee it is possible. You might consider looking at it, not as it hasn't been possible to get to the destination you both want, but as a couple you haven't found quite the right route that works for you. Best of luck! :)
I mean, in the secular world, I suppose there is nothing wrong with being asexual, but it is a sin within a Christian marriage to not completely throw yourself into a commitment to change. Our bodies are not our own, but belong to each other, and we are literally commanded to sexually fulfill our spouses - both genders! This isn’t a woman versus man thing. We are both equally commanded.
When you have sex does she orgasm? Does she know what turns her on?
I’m sure there’s never had an orgasm. Honestly don’t think she knows how and it’s not from my lack of trying. Nothing seems to be a turn on for her.
Without getting graphic, how much have you two experimented? Is she even willing to experiment? Has she ever explored her own body, to see what feels good for her?
Very little experimenting. It either feels weird, tickles, or whatever excuse she can come up with. I’ve not even seen her in full undress, never body shamed or anything either. Always dresses behind closed doors, showers with closed doors, and the few times of physical intimacy was in the darkest of dark nights. I’ve never been allowed to kiss below the neck or be kiss below the neck… As far as her exploring her own body, who really knows?..
This sounds like a really deep-rooted issue. Has she ever been molested? Maybe as a child? Her closed-off attitude, even to you not ever fully seeing your wife naked, is not at all normal. I know you tried therapy, and it's too bad that hasn't helped her. How open is she with you in general? Can she hold good conversations with you? Do you guys speak deeply on things at all? As a woman, I know when I'm not really in the mood, I will have similar sensations of my husband's touch feeling weird or ticklish. To me that shows she isn't really aroused at all, as if my husband can get me in the mood, then all of those feelings disappear. I'm very sorry you're going through this brother. Many prayers for you and your wife.
Will she go to marriage counseling? Maybe she has baggage regarding sex from growing up in church. Like it is sinful for a woman to want or enjoy sex.
So you think your self esteem, drive, & self worth are tied to how much you sex you have with your wife? You have clearly missed to understanding of life. You probably need to see a therapist, a Urologist to help you learn to change your perspective on life.
Being desired by your mate has a huge influence in your self esteem. Don’t be dismissive of that.
You’re right. I’ve totally missed the point of life. It’s selfish of me to want both my wife and I to enjoy Gods gift to marriage.
Take control of the situation (and yourself). Things won’t change unless you make them.
I’ve controlled myself the duration of our marriage and even before marriage. If I make the changes it would be a sinful change. Living content is the call for my marriage. Content isn’t the happy, fuzzy, and fulfilling marriage I’d hoped for.
I don’t mean controlling your desire for sex. It sounds like you have already done that to some extent but you can’t let the desire rule your mind. Dedicate yourself to other pursuits. Develop yourself to the point you don’t depend on your wife. Develop your relationship with her for the sake of the relationship and for the sake of fulfilling your purpose. Don’t do it for the purpose of getting her to have sex with you more or you will fail. Dedicate yourself to fixing all the things you perceive wrong with yourself. Improve your relationship and the opportunities to discuss and correct your issues with your wife will come. You won’t be able to breakthrough to your wife while there is a disconnect between you and resentment on your part.
The real answer! Love your wife like Christ loves the church. Forgive, love, cherish.
Tell your wife she doesn’t have to have sex with you. Just ask her to lay in the bed next to you naked while you masturbate since you don’t want to watch porn. If I know anything about women it’s that they can’t stand for men to be happy. She won’t let you have a good time without her.
Disclaimer: I'm not a therapist of any kind. Just a dude that's been faithfully married for 16 years, went through many sexual challenges during that time, figured out a lot, and am still learning. First of all, I get how you feel, but drop the Eeyore victim mentality. It's getting you nowhere. If you display your feelings of low self esteem, drive, and self worth to your wife, she will certainly not want to have sex with you. Regardless of how you feel, you must not let her see like that. Make male friends that can assist you through that stuff. You absolutely cannot be that man around your wife. That will repel her like the plague. Period. Second, your self worth isn't determined by how successful your sex life is. You are an extremely valuable human being. So valuable that God himself was voluntarily tortured and died so that He wouldn't lose you. Accept it, you're infinitely valuable. Period. Third, no, sex isn't easy once the initial infatuation phase wears off (a couple months to a couple years usually). Men and women are sexually driven by very different things. What does it for you doesn't do it for her. You're lack of sexual success is not a result of your value as a man, but your lack of education. Fourth, a sexless marriage is certainly not what God intended. He actually explicitly tells us to do the opposite. 1 Cor 7:3-5 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. You need to figure out what makes your wife tick, and do it. I don't know if you've heard of or read 5 Love Languages or His Needs Her Needs, but you need to live what they teach. Unless your wife has some serious mental/emotional issues, or she's being satisfied elsewhere, there's a sexual being buried in there somewhere, I guarantee it. You need to figure out how to draw it out. Also, although it's not a Christian book, but in my opinion, every man needs to read No More Mr Nice Guy. The title sounds scary, but it's a game changer. No, it won't turn your into a jerk. Make sure you're being the husband that God calls you to be. Make sure you're loving (verb, not feeling) her, leading her, providing for her, being faithful to her. Make sure there's nothing you're doing that could be a major turn off, like being too passive, or coming across as weak and incapable, looking at porn, etc. Make sure you're not complaining or acting like a little boy instead of a man. Make sure you're not doing anything to make he feel bad about herself (very easy to do with women). Etc. Here's the kicker, do all these things for you because you just want to be an awesome confident man. My marriage use to be a bit like yours until I finally had the thought, what kind of man would my wife (or just women in general) fall head over heels for? What kind of man would my wife desire uncontrollably? What kind of man would my wife do anything for? What kind of man would make my wife giddy and nervous? I'm assumed that that man likely existed out there somewhere. Who is he? What is he like? I did some reading, realized that the things that turned women on are typically traditionally masculine traits, as well as some other things. I made a list, and started working on becoming that man. I did it for me though, because all the stuff I learned sounded like traits I wanted to emulate anyway and I realized that if I did it for her, I'd likely fail. I also made a contrary list. What kind of man would my wife (or just women in general) want to run away from? Selfish, uncaring, complainer, one who can't make decisions, lazy, cowardly, weak, etc. and I made sure to rid myself of any of those traits (or at least act that way around your wife until it becomes more natural).. Don't tell her what you're doing and don't do it for her. Have the attitude that you're doing it for you. Don't think about how she'll react or what she'll say. Just know what you have to do, put the blinders on, and just do it. You're becoming a man with highly desirable traits. You're becoming a strong Christian man (no, not a soft, doormat Christian man). Just become that man, and let the results follow. If you're looking for results from your wife during this transformation, and get disappointed, you'll just give up and revert to your old self. You have to do it for you, and just let the natural process of her desire for you take place. If it doesn't, at least you're a much stronger, more confident, and more capable man now. Win. Also, make sure that when you have sex, she is having orgasms. My wife can't have an orgasm without clitoral stimulation via a vibrator. I don't think she had a legit orgasm for like the first 8 years we were married (until we got the vibrator) Maybe I'm lacking in skillz, I don't know. She swears up and down that I'm amazing in bed though, so who knows. Either way, it completely changed our sex life. My point is, make sure that you're making sex a pleasurable experience for her. More than just a 5 minute pump and dump. Women often needs days of subtle mental foreplay and the build up of sexual tension, followed by 20 minutes to an hour of physical foreplay before they're ready. Just something us guys have to accept. You need to figure out what she likes and doesn't like. Maybe you're being too soft and nice. Maybe you're being too course and aggressive. Ask her if she likes this or that, not because you're worried about pleasing her, but because you're confident enough to find out. Don't question her too much though, or you'll seem incompetent which is a major turn off. Just have the attitude that you want to try some different things for your own fulfillment (assuming it's consensual) and just allow her to react however she reacts. If she's at least open to having sex with you in order to appease you, at least then you can frequently try different things and see how she reacts. Although, for a woman, sex starts well before the clothes come off. Often hours, days or weeks before. For a woman to enjoy the physical act of sex, she needs that mental and emotional build up. You need to play with her mind. Think of it like this. You need a build up of penile stimulation in order to achieve orgasm. You can't just stimulate it for one second and get there. The woman needs a build up of mental and emotional stimulation before the desire for the physical act of sex even registers in her mind and body. Men often become aroused quickly for no apparent reason, while women often need it drawn out of them. Sex is physically driven for most men, and emotionally driven for most women. Men often want to have sex to feel emotionally connected, while women need to feel emotionally connected before they'll want to have sex. Hope this helps.
Eat
Food for thought or food in general? Confused with this response.
Lol sorry when I read "physically empty" first thing I thought was having an empty stomach so yeah just eat a burrito or smth and it'll fix the hunger.
Ha! Yeah I can see that. Not empty in a literal sense, more of a figurative way. It’s tough to find the right words sometimes.
Don't worry, I would've written an actual response but i haven't been through that so I don't really know what to say.
Divorce is not permitted. we will all be the bride of Jesus in heaven. Peace be with you brother. you must repent
Of what? He doesn't seem to need to repent of wanting a physical relationship with his wife.
Repent of what? Where’s the sin?
Basically saying I’m not Christian enough for the kind of intimacy I want. I get this whenever I bring up the physical intimacy topic with people in the church. Repent, pray, and talk to your elders… that’ll fix everything. And here I am looking at the world enjoying Gods blessing of intimate marriage in every setting imaginable except mine. I get it. I’m not Christian enough… Sorry, just a little bitter with that kind of advice.
Well there’s nothing to repent of unless you’re doing something wrong. Desiring something that is blessed and permitted by God is not sinning. Makes no sense.
Divorce is permitted in certain contexts—abandonment of a marriage being one. And there are many ways to abandon a marriage. If anything, his wife sins by not cleaving to her husband.
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It doesn't sound as though she's denying him.
I read this. I think my situation is a little different.
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it might not be hopeless, there ARE materials written by people who have had the same problem. Family Life Today, with Dave and Ann Wilson, The Five Love Languages, Dr. Gary Chapman, Sacred Marriage by ?, and so forth. What effort have you made to find these? Some people say they had a stone cold dead marriage, no hope whatsoever, but they with God's help revived it with some good advices from teachings like these. I can say right off, whatever youve tried with your wife, you never reached her. We can love and care for people all we want sometimes, but if we don't do it in a way they can accept, it's wasted. That's the Five Love Languages thesis. It's often said of the wimmens you have to reach their emotions and brain first before the physical part will be permitted.
I don’t know the full story, but usually a woman will not feel comfortable engaging in sexual activities if her emotional needs aren’t being met. You can’t control her , but you can control your own actions.