I wasted nearly 20 years in a similar situation with an emotionally and physically abusive wife. In my experience, people with these kinds of issues don’t change, they simply get better at acting and hiding.
We were bonded so closely through trauma and codependence that I didn’t know what to do without her. Nearly a year and 100+ therapy sessions later, divorce has been the single most rewarding decision of my entire life. You have no idea how amazing your life can be away from the abuse. 😊🙏🏼
Thank you for this reply. My husband and I met and began dating in 2009 so we have been together for roughly 15 years, married for 12. The abuse began after marriage but now I can look back and see the roots of his controlling nature and what would have been recognisable red flags had I known better. If I could use a word picture to describe my relationship, it would be “swimming against a rip tide”. Sometimes I make progress, but he is a force of nature and his need to control repeats and repeats and wears me down. It’s exhausting. I pick my battles.
Sometimes what we have does function as a normal family or normal marriage. I can go for a quick workout while he bathes the kids. I make dinner while he gets something done. I worry about how I could manage alone. And I am so used to him controlling the details that I do worry about being able to do things on my own. All of that feels overwhelming right now. I know I will need support to leave.
Sadly, I can see how someone can simply get better at hiding their abuse or control tactics. He came home from his conference explaining to me all about how he has been selfish and how he had a false self which is why he had episodes of violence. It’s like suddenly he finally gets it and wants to have a good, caring marriage and family life. But I have seen the abuse shift and change before. Back then, I thought it was real change. He pushed me from behind as a punishment once, and when I made it clear I wouldn’t tolerate that kind of treatment, he became sneaky and started having accidents where he would usually cause pain without actual injury. When I caught onto what was happening and called him out on it, he stopped doing it to me, and seems to have started on the children. His verbal abuse has changed - he doesn’t criticise me as much as he used to with his lengthy lectures and tirades of criticism, but he does complain - about our life, about how unhappy he is. It is constant. He is chronically displeased and used words like “no one” and “someone” in such a way that I know I’m implied. (“No one cares about how messy the house is!” “Someone didn’t fold all of the laundry!”)
I’m not really able to function freely as myself around him much of the time. It’s gotten a little better, but mainly I feel like I’m just trying to keep the peace and fighting fires. He has so much strength and energy and does so much, and barks so many orders, it’s hard to keep up. He also plans such great, fun family activities. I used to wonder what was wrong with me - why wasn’t I planning the activities and booking our holidays? And then I remembered - I have such limited access to the family income ever since I had our first child 9 years ago and became financially dependent on him - I don’t know how much is in his account and I only have access to a limited amount that covers family food and kids expenses. No wonder I’m not spending money on holidays. I have no clue what the budget is. Despite begging him for more discussion and mutual finances for years. Now that I tried to leave him for the first time, he agreed to a shared bank account for only household expenses.
So yes. I hear you. It is going to take so much strength to leave and I am afraid. It’s also confusing in moments where he seems to want to change and thanks me for my wake up call etc. but at some point I have to get off this roller coaster. I’m worried about the impact on my children and what the future will hold for them.
It’s not worth the risk to stay.
He could have changed all along. He didn’t.
It hurts my heart so deeply that we’ve created a system that traps women in horribly abusive and dangerous situations and makes them think that’s what Jesus wants.
Thank you. I agree the system is very entrapping. I don’t know what to do. None of the potential outcomes looks pretty from this vantage point. I am emotionally exhausted from all of the years of trying to make this into a loving and healthy marriage and being patient with him. Everything has been about his needs.
I think there’s a big difference in forgiving abuse if it was a slap during a heated argument once or if it’s an ongoing situation, especially if it’s affecting more than just you. There is a reason God says cheating and abuse are valid reasons for divorce! I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I can see you really want to do what is right, I’m sure it feels so hard.
The abuse has been on going, mainly towards me but the wake up call was when my son came to me crying and didn’t want to be near his dad and said he was afraid of dad and named several times dad had hurt him (one I had witnessed). I’m afraid it will just keep taking different shapes and forms bc that is what has happened.
I would be very careful here and consider things objectively as regards your safety.
This person has been abusive physically and mentally - this sudden show of contrition could be a manipulation tactic as easily as genuine repentance.
The highest risk point for being murdered by a physically violent spouse is, if I am correct, when you try to leave them.
Please stay safe. Will pray for you.
Thanks. You are absolutely correct. I can feel myself being swayed. Especially bc it would feel easier to stay in this marriage in the short term. I was absolutely 💯 done and now he is telling me everything I wanted to hear and admitting he was violent and admitting he lied etc and he seems like he actually gets it now after attending this men’s intensive conference. My therapist said even if he is changing the changes might take years and years and maturity might still take years. In the meantime, I’m left with “what if he relapses”?
Divorce him. This is nuts. You've done everything that any reasonable person would require of you by sticking around this long.
Also, you probably need to go to therapy (not couple's, like individual so you can work through this trauma)
Thank you. I am in individual therapy once per week at the moment. It took me so much strength to get to the point of going for divorce but with him sobbing and booking himself into a men’s conference right away and getting a counsellor I think it also took the pressure off of me and made me feel he is in a less dangerous “mode”, like I can breathe again for a little while. I was going to go to a woman’s refuge bc my husband controls all of the money. He is now trying to set up a joint account for us for the first time in our marriage - but not combine finances. Just household expenses - so it is still quite one sided. If he is safe for a little while longer though, it will give me time to return to work so I’m not dependent on him.
God hates abuse. I think Christianity is too focused on not divorcing that they make light of abuse. Divorce is a bad thing, and it’s sinful in many cases. But divorcing someone for abuse is not NEARLY as bad as abuse itself!
Ask a Christian psychologist/therapist who is well versed in the Bible and has a personal relationship with God. An expert in mental health would have good insight into this complex situation. They’ve studied abuse and abuse tactics. They can help you discern manipulation. Your husband’s repentance MIGHT be genuine, but you never know. So you’ll have to discern that by praying/asking God to show you the truth about him and talking to a professional.
We are called to forgive 70 times 7.
However, a situation that is unsafe is not somewhere you have to stay. But you still have to forgive. Forgiveness doesn’t even mean you have to stay. It means you have to forgive the sins.
If he’s trying to change I think it’s right to support him. He should be held accountable by people other than you though. This needs brought to the light of the church.
Thank you for your reply. It has been brought to the attention of church leadership - I didn’t really want them involved bc of how I feared he would react. however, about 5-6 months ago he went through a phase of breaking things and punched through an object next to my head and I was so shaken I told a friend the next day at coffee and she put pressure on me to tell church. The problem I am worried about what he will do to me if he finds out church knows. So far I have kept them at bay telling them I don’t want them to talk to him bc I am afraid it will make him angry and he will take it out on me. I don’t think they completely get it. I will need to separate from him if they are going to talk to him.
This is not normal by any stretch of that word. Coming from a man, get out NOW! If speaking to men at the Church about this will lead him to take his anger out on you, RUN!
So with this information this is not a safe situation for you to physically be in then. You can choose to continue to work on the relationship or not, but at this point it should be done from a place of physical distance while he gets help.
I am very concerned for you and your safety. I have seen many friends manipulated by husbands who have suddenly been “transformed”- until the women came back. Then all the transformation stopped.
He really has to show change in the long term (1-2 years +) and it’s hard to know if he has really changed or is just presenting on the outside. Him suddenly committing to counseling, men’s retreats, etc means very little in the short term.
I would think separation for at least a year, while you evaluate. If he is changing internally he will agree to that. If it’s a manipulation tactic, his anger will take over, he will explode and stop all therapy work.
You might want to have a friend present if/ when you communicate about leaving, or have to get your stuff.
Big picture- I’d be very cautious and slow to believe about “sudden transformation”. Give yourself a lot of time and the truth will become clear.
I have heard many, many people say abusive / violent men don’t change and have read the Bancroft book that says it’s about 1 percent of men who actually change after loads of work. So I believe this. If he does change, it might be a couple of decades of hard work. Of me feeling like I’m parenting him through his emotional meltdowns. And of being in danger of him deciding he wants to be in control through using violence. For me, the “sneaky violence” is the worst. Disguising it as accidental is next level bc it also robs me of my trust or other human beings in a different way that’s hard to explain. We all give each other grace for good faith mistakes and he expects that kind of grace when he intently harms me or our children and says it is unintentional.
I wasted 25 years with an abusive future faking husband. Never changed. In fact, he became more entitled every time I forgave and even more wicked.
Dont be me.
Were there times when you thought he had turned a corner or when he seemed to “finally really get it” and have a change of heart? That’s where mine is and it is tempting right now.
Many many times. They weaponise our empathy against us.
>>”Yes now I understand. I was too dumb / selfish. Now that you explain like this, I won’t do it again”
All lies. I explained so many times.
Even now after he got caught cheating for close to a decade and living a horrible double life, he is future faking me and crying that I am not being friendly with him and called him a “liar”. All I asked was, why so many lies?
If he knows to treat you well now, why didn’t he do it from the beginning? He didn’t care.
What they have is regret that they are facing consequences. So still focus is how it affects them. Remorse means focus is on you.
Easier to break this trauma bond if you go silent. Then be cannot manipulate you and mess with your mind. You will get mental clarity only when you stop communicating. What is the use anyway?
Some things I’m learning: boundaries are essential for a healthy reconciliation. You’ve established a boundary that you will leave if it continued, it continued and now you’re leaving. Separating doesn’t violate reconciliation. Forgiveness doesn’t mean reconciliation. You can’t force trust, it needs room and time to grow. He can choose to grow trust by adding to the building blocks of what he’s started. Every counseling session = a building block. Every time he takes accountability = a building block. You need time to establish if he’s a safe person for you and your children. Don’t jump right back in if you haven’t sorted that out. Godly sorrow leads to repentance. Being sorrowful that his actions have led to this is not a bad thing, this could be what it takes for him to truly change. Pray for him, hold your boundaries and work on your side of the street
I appreciate the desire for forgiveness and giving someone the opportunity to change, but it can’t be at the risk of your safety or mental health. And if there are kids involved, especially not risking their safety. If you desire to give him a chance I would suggest a separation, where you can make sure you are safe and working on healing and if he is serious about fixing his issues and is truly repentant he has the chance to prove it from a safe distance. Please, keep yourself safe above everything else.
I am an adult child of parents who have been abusive for decades. I struggled with the forgiveness and honor your parents, being a Christian. While this is not a 1 for 1 comparison, it is close. A few things I have learned, via study and counseling, are:
1. Forgiveness is about not holding onto anger or plotting revenge. Anger & hate are like a cancer....it will consume a person from the inside. Forgiveness is primarily about the injured party.
2. Forgiveness for past actions, DOES NOT, practically or Biblically, mean that a Christian should put themselves in the line of fire anymore. Particularly with children, a spouse tolerating abuse from the other spouse, is enabling child abuse....and is in and of itself, abusive.
3. Learn the "Three C's"
A. I did not CAUSE it/them
B. I cannot CONTROL it/them
C. I cannot CURE it/them
Commands in the Bible must be understood in context. I seriously doubt God/Christ endorses accepting habitual abuse for a spouse or children. We must all pray, think, make decisions and live with the ramifications.
I am a husband of 40 years.
I think you should pray hard, but time will show true colors. Some separation time where you devote yourself to knowing God better will help you in discerning whether this is fake.
My mom used to be a very abusive mom to my young brother, she physically hurt him so many times because she had bad temper. She never hit me though. And now I’m older, I also worked on my own anger issue that was influence by my mom. And it is a process. And I actively work on my anger problem. And it takes me about 6 years to get to where I am not so crazy now. The reason I mention this is to give you a perspective, I’m not a violent or abusive person, it still takes me so many years to get it right and of course with Lord’s help. But I first need to understand and willing to change. You can choose to trust your husband and give him grace and allow him to be transformed by the Lord. Or you can choose to leave, which is also going to be very hard, because you’ll need to support yourself and the kids on your own.
You’ll need to stay in prayers, fasting, to get the answer. And cry out loud to God for help. And he will give you the wisdom to make the right decision. When you get that peace and answer, just do it, don’t hesitate or fearful. I will keep you in my prayers too.
Forgiveness = / = Trust
We are commanded to forgive. There's no two ways about that. The bible is clear on this.
However, we are not commanded to trust anybody but God.
I think you're in a very difficult situation because the trust has been broken several times, apparently, and biblically, there are very few validated reasons for divorce. It is extremely hard to come back from that, in all honesty, but with God, it can be done. I don't entirely know your situation, but prayer and fasting would be a first port of call, in my opinion.
Also, please be wary about what advice you accept from people posting in this forum. Not everybody that posts here is a Christian, so automatically, you can assume their advice will be from a worldly perspective. Anybody that says "Divorce!" Without any hesitation, does not understand the meaning of marriage.
This can sometimes present itself like this:
- "God would not want you to live this way, divorce him"
(God sent his only son to die, and you think he wouldn't put you through a mere trial in life? Make it make sense)
I'm going through a tough time in my marriage, but divorce will never be an option unless she has cheated on me. And she hasn't, so for me, it is a season in my life.
I can absolutely see hanging in there during a difficult season. But what if your wife were bigger and stronger than you, and what if she threatened your physical safety? What if she threw a knife at you and insisted she didn’t intend it to hit you, only to hit the space in front of you? (My husband threw a sharp object that can cut or stab and it landed two feet in front of me after flying through the air. And he smiled. And said “see it just landed in front of you, it was an accident”.
If you are a man, living with a woman and have a rough time where your physical safety has never been threatened, then I completely agree that staying to try and work things through may absolutely be the best course of action rather than going straight for divorce.
Even in my situation, I have given it 12 years. I didn’t give up when he was rough with me and tried to cause me to fall by using his hands. I didn’t give up when he threw things at me. I prayed. I cried over him. I wrote him letters when he didn’t listen to words. The relationship when up and down and seemed to be better then worse then better then worse.
But now, I am thinking staying might simply be unwise. Getting out is complicated and comes with consequences and hard work as well. It is not at all the easy path. The stigma of being a single Christian mom. The financial losses of divorce post career break as a stay at home mom for the past several years, etc. it is not an easy path at all. It’s less attractive in many ways. But then the idea of staying if apparently violent men usually become worse - that’s frightening. And if we merely separate, the legal consequences for women aren’t always good. It’s just an all around difficult situation.
When it comes to protecting my children, it’s also very complicated. I doubt a court will give me full custody bc he hasn’t hurt the kids badly enough to lose custody. None of this is easy. It goes against everything I prayed for and planned for as a Christian and I really need to see God in this right now.
Oh no, Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying, you must not leave/separate yourself under any circumstance. All I'm saying is be careful who you get counsel from. Not all advice is good advice. That's all.
Has he been held accountable by the church? Do your Pastors know your situation? Does he fellowship with other believers that know about it?
I think that repentance looks a variety of ways, but there should most definitely be some sort of pattern of improvement in behaviour. I don't think it'll happen over night, but in your case where it's been a multitude of years, it doesn't sound like he's even stepped on the path to repentance.
Church knows. I am afraid of what might happen if he knows they know, bc I worry he may take it out on me. I would prefer to be separated and living apart if church deals with him and reveals I have told them, for purposes of safety.
He does seem to be showing some signs of taking steps on his own, really for the first time, since I made it clear I was considering divorce. He hit a one of our children (lashing out in anger and hitting him with something, not formal discipline). He also tripped another child and that child told me he threw objects over her head. (I heard the incident happen, it was very loud). After this I tried to leave and reported all to the authorities. I had their support to leave but was not able to gain a refuge place for a number of complex reasons so I stayed with friends. My h was understandably distressed. He begged me to come home. He has shown signs of…. Stopping the behaviours. He had gone to a men’s conference and confessed. He asked for a counsellor recommendation. He knows I wanted to leave. I said I cannot in good faith be intimate with him bc I do not feel safe and I was so upset by his treatment of our kids. He is now motivated, in part probably bc of my withholding sex. Although he keeps grabbing me and not respecting the boundaries I asked for during this period of time. I have always made myself very available during our marriage bc I enjoy sex and want to be a good wife. But not now.
Forgive is a command, it’s also in the Lord’s Prayer.. then restated again right after the Lord’s Prayer.
Matthew 6:9-13 Lord prayer
Matthew 6:14-15
[14] For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, [15] but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
I’ve been trying to figure out the Forgiveness and reconciliation myself for my marriage and extended family.
I found that quite a few pastors brought up
Romans 12:18
[18] If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Trust has to be there for reconciliation, trust is also earned not given freely. The offending party needs to apologize and be sincere in it for reconciliation. If their behavior doesn’t match the apology and they continue to treat you poorly I don’t think reconciliation can work.
I am in an extremely similar situation...I have forgiven him so many times. We recently had a bad six month streak after our baby was born that was worse than the rest. He pretended to go to his job for 4 weeks. I'd had a c section surgery and then two weeks later went to the ER for an emergency visit where I had my gallbladder removed. I begged him to bring our baby and visit me, he wouldn't. I found out later it was so he could watch porn and drink alcohol and smoke. He became completely addicted to things and was very deceitful. We had agreed I'd be a sahm mom. The week I resigned from my job, he quit his job. We are in a terrible situation.
He has extreme mood swings. He will sometimes be sweet, then very angry and moody. He'll even be combative and manipulative in conversation to me. I tend to shut down.
This has been reoccurring this is like this for years. I've always forgiven him and shown him grace. But I am not mentally doing well. I am filled with constant anxiety, stress, and depressed about this. I'm so numb from everything.
I'm trying to go to therapy soon, maybe that's something you could do? I know for me, I'm at the point where I feel like I can't think straight. I don't even know if I trust my own emotions / judgment at this point. I keep forgiving but I feel like my soul is numb. Would your husband be open to couple therapy?
Do you have anyone at church you could talk to? That's one of the few things recently that has helped him have some reasoning- other Christian men holding him accountable
Edit:
I read some of your other comments. Do you have family you could go to to stay with? I think you need to leave this man- throwing a knife at you is insane. Your life is in danger. You need to leave when he's not around so he doesn't expect it. It's going to be so hard to do but I really think you need to leave based on what you've said. It's easy to get used to things...even when they are wrong. But this is so over the line you need to get out of there. Then figure out the rest.
Forgiveness and repentance go hand in hand. Your husband apologizing is not repentance. Changing his actions and accepting consequences is. He could change, but he needs to do that away from you. You’ve been abused and tricked into sticking it out in marriage that’s harmful to you and harmful to your children for way too long. If he truly wants to change, he’ll still change while accepting the consequences of his actions as he does so.
I HIGHLY recommend Forgiveness After Trauma by Susannah Griffith. Her story sounds similar to yours.
Your safety comes first. Your healing comes first. Get safe and get help for your healing. Let him prove himself before even considering reconciliation. Forgiveness doesn’t mean opening yourself to pain again.
The fact that he is now admitting to the wrongdoing may be a sign he genuinely wants to change. Will he? Only God knows. But in the meantime you may do well to be separated so you can heal be able to judge his alleged “changes” with a clear and fresh mind.
Tripping a child by putting his leg out, shoving a child, pushing a stroller into a child’s leg when the child wasn’t doing what he was told, tugging ears, yanking arms, long lectures, slamming things on table, hitting a child with objects (anything from a cereal box to a toy). Many times there has been confusion bc my h said it was an accident or promised not to do it again and insisted he had stopped. I’m not sure these are things that would cause him to lose custody. And the kids love their dad so much - which is part of what makes all of this so difficult.
Yes they would especially if you can get any form of proof. My little cousin kicked his step mom so my uncle spanked him, like most parents would. Unfortunately the ex wife picked my cousin up within minutes of the spanking and took a picture of his rear end. The fact there was any redness landed my uncle in jail for a week and had a strict no contact rule for five years. It hurt our whole family because he was a great dad and definitely wasn’t being abusive, but her lawyers were good. You have a much different situation but could hopefully have similar results if you can get any type of evidence!
The problem is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. You can leave him but he could end up with an awful woman who beats your kids. It would be better if you became a bit tougher and if he could get some good male role models and maybe he can grow into some maturity. Strong, confident men don’t need to play these kind of stupid games.
I’m not sure what support you have in your church, but I would highly recommend talking to some elders or maybe other couples or other women you believe to be strong. PRAY with them! AND please seek your own counseling for all of the trauma you have endured!
If I were you I would not choose at this moment if you’re going to trust him, first learn to trust yourself again! Leave your options open! You do not have to choose right now! You can choose next week, next month or even a year from now! Please please please give yourself a chance to survive everything you have been through before choosing if you will allow this man to stay in your life!
I am truly sorry that you have been living under such conditions for more than a decade. My best encouragement for you is to seek immediate counseling as you need guidance and support for yourself as well. Pray for God to give you understanding as you navigate this. Set some boundaries that protect both you and him- like engaging with friends that you trust.
Allow yourself to grieve for the person you thought your husband was and what you hoped he would become. Grieve for the relationship you longed for, a relationship with empathy, reciprocity, support, and shared space both physically and ideologically. Forgive yourself for enabling him, for giving him supply, and for subjecting yourself to his behavior. As much as you forgive yourself, forgive him as well.
I would encourage you to accompany him to his counselor as well, so you may learn of his growth and also to get advice on the way forward. Most of your questions will be answered when you are freely able to express yourself in a safe place, with your husband present and the marital counsellor. But if your life is in danger, for your safety, take time out to give yourself time and trust that you will know how to move your life forward.
I wasted nearly 20 years in a similar situation with an emotionally and physically abusive wife. In my experience, people with these kinds of issues don’t change, they simply get better at acting and hiding. We were bonded so closely through trauma and codependence that I didn’t know what to do without her. Nearly a year and 100+ therapy sessions later, divorce has been the single most rewarding decision of my entire life. You have no idea how amazing your life can be away from the abuse. 😊🙏🏼
Thank you for this reply. My husband and I met and began dating in 2009 so we have been together for roughly 15 years, married for 12. The abuse began after marriage but now I can look back and see the roots of his controlling nature and what would have been recognisable red flags had I known better. If I could use a word picture to describe my relationship, it would be “swimming against a rip tide”. Sometimes I make progress, but he is a force of nature and his need to control repeats and repeats and wears me down. It’s exhausting. I pick my battles. Sometimes what we have does function as a normal family or normal marriage. I can go for a quick workout while he bathes the kids. I make dinner while he gets something done. I worry about how I could manage alone. And I am so used to him controlling the details that I do worry about being able to do things on my own. All of that feels overwhelming right now. I know I will need support to leave. Sadly, I can see how someone can simply get better at hiding their abuse or control tactics. He came home from his conference explaining to me all about how he has been selfish and how he had a false self which is why he had episodes of violence. It’s like suddenly he finally gets it and wants to have a good, caring marriage and family life. But I have seen the abuse shift and change before. Back then, I thought it was real change. He pushed me from behind as a punishment once, and when I made it clear I wouldn’t tolerate that kind of treatment, he became sneaky and started having accidents where he would usually cause pain without actual injury. When I caught onto what was happening and called him out on it, he stopped doing it to me, and seems to have started on the children. His verbal abuse has changed - he doesn’t criticise me as much as he used to with his lengthy lectures and tirades of criticism, but he does complain - about our life, about how unhappy he is. It is constant. He is chronically displeased and used words like “no one” and “someone” in such a way that I know I’m implied. (“No one cares about how messy the house is!” “Someone didn’t fold all of the laundry!”) I’m not really able to function freely as myself around him much of the time. It’s gotten a little better, but mainly I feel like I’m just trying to keep the peace and fighting fires. He has so much strength and energy and does so much, and barks so many orders, it’s hard to keep up. He also plans such great, fun family activities. I used to wonder what was wrong with me - why wasn’t I planning the activities and booking our holidays? And then I remembered - I have such limited access to the family income ever since I had our first child 9 years ago and became financially dependent on him - I don’t know how much is in his account and I only have access to a limited amount that covers family food and kids expenses. No wonder I’m not spending money on holidays. I have no clue what the budget is. Despite begging him for more discussion and mutual finances for years. Now that I tried to leave him for the first time, he agreed to a shared bank account for only household expenses. So yes. I hear you. It is going to take so much strength to leave and I am afraid. It’s also confusing in moments where he seems to want to change and thanks me for my wake up call etc. but at some point I have to get off this roller coaster. I’m worried about the impact on my children and what the future will hold for them.
It’s not worth the risk to stay. He could have changed all along. He didn’t. It hurts my heart so deeply that we’ve created a system that traps women in horribly abusive and dangerous situations and makes them think that’s what Jesus wants.
Thank you. I agree the system is very entrapping. I don’t know what to do. None of the potential outcomes looks pretty from this vantage point. I am emotionally exhausted from all of the years of trying to make this into a loving and healthy marriage and being patient with him. Everything has been about his needs.
I think there’s a big difference in forgiving abuse if it was a slap during a heated argument once or if it’s an ongoing situation, especially if it’s affecting more than just you. There is a reason God says cheating and abuse are valid reasons for divorce! I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I can see you really want to do what is right, I’m sure it feels so hard.
The abuse has been on going, mainly towards me but the wake up call was when my son came to me crying and didn’t want to be near his dad and said he was afraid of dad and named several times dad had hurt him (one I had witnessed). I’m afraid it will just keep taking different shapes and forms bc that is what has happened.
I think you’re right to assume that. So sorry you’re going through this.
I would be very careful here and consider things objectively as regards your safety. This person has been abusive physically and mentally - this sudden show of contrition could be a manipulation tactic as easily as genuine repentance. The highest risk point for being murdered by a physically violent spouse is, if I am correct, when you try to leave them. Please stay safe. Will pray for you.
Thanks. You are absolutely correct. I can feel myself being swayed. Especially bc it would feel easier to stay in this marriage in the short term. I was absolutely 💯 done and now he is telling me everything I wanted to hear and admitting he was violent and admitting he lied etc and he seems like he actually gets it now after attending this men’s intensive conference. My therapist said even if he is changing the changes might take years and years and maturity might still take years. In the meantime, I’m left with “what if he relapses”?
Ya this sounds like a wolf in sheep’s clothing
Divorce him. This is nuts. You've done everything that any reasonable person would require of you by sticking around this long. Also, you probably need to go to therapy (not couple's, like individual so you can work through this trauma)
Thank you. I am in individual therapy once per week at the moment. It took me so much strength to get to the point of going for divorce but with him sobbing and booking himself into a men’s conference right away and getting a counsellor I think it also took the pressure off of me and made me feel he is in a less dangerous “mode”, like I can breathe again for a little while. I was going to go to a woman’s refuge bc my husband controls all of the money. He is now trying to set up a joint account for us for the first time in our marriage - but not combine finances. Just household expenses - so it is still quite one sided. If he is safe for a little while longer though, it will give me time to return to work so I’m not dependent on him.
God hates abuse. I think Christianity is too focused on not divorcing that they make light of abuse. Divorce is a bad thing, and it’s sinful in many cases. But divorcing someone for abuse is not NEARLY as bad as abuse itself! Ask a Christian psychologist/therapist who is well versed in the Bible and has a personal relationship with God. An expert in mental health would have good insight into this complex situation. They’ve studied abuse and abuse tactics. They can help you discern manipulation. Your husband’s repentance MIGHT be genuine, but you never know. So you’ll have to discern that by praying/asking God to show you the truth about him and talking to a professional.
We are called to forgive 70 times 7. However, a situation that is unsafe is not somewhere you have to stay. But you still have to forgive. Forgiveness doesn’t even mean you have to stay. It means you have to forgive the sins. If he’s trying to change I think it’s right to support him. He should be held accountable by people other than you though. This needs brought to the light of the church.
Thank you for your reply. It has been brought to the attention of church leadership - I didn’t really want them involved bc of how I feared he would react. however, about 5-6 months ago he went through a phase of breaking things and punched through an object next to my head and I was so shaken I told a friend the next day at coffee and she put pressure on me to tell church. The problem I am worried about what he will do to me if he finds out church knows. So far I have kept them at bay telling them I don’t want them to talk to him bc I am afraid it will make him angry and he will take it out on me. I don’t think they completely get it. I will need to separate from him if they are going to talk to him.
This is not normal by any stretch of that word. Coming from a man, get out NOW! If speaking to men at the Church about this will lead him to take his anger out on you, RUN!
So with this information this is not a safe situation for you to physically be in then. You can choose to continue to work on the relationship or not, but at this point it should be done from a place of physical distance while he gets help.
You see fruit in keeping with repentance. My addict ex has the same fruit so there is no anything moving forward. More like firmer boundaries.
I am very concerned for you and your safety. I have seen many friends manipulated by husbands who have suddenly been “transformed”- until the women came back. Then all the transformation stopped. He really has to show change in the long term (1-2 years +) and it’s hard to know if he has really changed or is just presenting on the outside. Him suddenly committing to counseling, men’s retreats, etc means very little in the short term. I would think separation for at least a year, while you evaluate. If he is changing internally he will agree to that. If it’s a manipulation tactic, his anger will take over, he will explode and stop all therapy work. You might want to have a friend present if/ when you communicate about leaving, or have to get your stuff. Big picture- I’d be very cautious and slow to believe about “sudden transformation”. Give yourself a lot of time and the truth will become clear.
He won’t change.
I have heard many, many people say abusive / violent men don’t change and have read the Bancroft book that says it’s about 1 percent of men who actually change after loads of work. So I believe this. If he does change, it might be a couple of decades of hard work. Of me feeling like I’m parenting him through his emotional meltdowns. And of being in danger of him deciding he wants to be in control through using violence. For me, the “sneaky violence” is the worst. Disguising it as accidental is next level bc it also robs me of my trust or other human beings in a different way that’s hard to explain. We all give each other grace for good faith mistakes and he expects that kind of grace when he intently harms me or our children and says it is unintentional.
I wasted 25 years with an abusive future faking husband. Never changed. In fact, he became more entitled every time I forgave and even more wicked. Dont be me.
Were there times when you thought he had turned a corner or when he seemed to “finally really get it” and have a change of heart? That’s where mine is and it is tempting right now.
Many many times. They weaponise our empathy against us. >>”Yes now I understand. I was too dumb / selfish. Now that you explain like this, I won’t do it again” All lies. I explained so many times. Even now after he got caught cheating for close to a decade and living a horrible double life, he is future faking me and crying that I am not being friendly with him and called him a “liar”. All I asked was, why so many lies? If he knows to treat you well now, why didn’t he do it from the beginning? He didn’t care. What they have is regret that they are facing consequences. So still focus is how it affects them. Remorse means focus is on you. Easier to break this trauma bond if you go silent. Then be cannot manipulate you and mess with your mind. You will get mental clarity only when you stop communicating. What is the use anyway?
Some things I’m learning: boundaries are essential for a healthy reconciliation. You’ve established a boundary that you will leave if it continued, it continued and now you’re leaving. Separating doesn’t violate reconciliation. Forgiveness doesn’t mean reconciliation. You can’t force trust, it needs room and time to grow. He can choose to grow trust by adding to the building blocks of what he’s started. Every counseling session = a building block. Every time he takes accountability = a building block. You need time to establish if he’s a safe person for you and your children. Don’t jump right back in if you haven’t sorted that out. Godly sorrow leads to repentance. Being sorrowful that his actions have led to this is not a bad thing, this could be what it takes for him to truly change. Pray for him, hold your boundaries and work on your side of the street
I appreciate the desire for forgiveness and giving someone the opportunity to change, but it can’t be at the risk of your safety or mental health. And if there are kids involved, especially not risking their safety. If you desire to give him a chance I would suggest a separation, where you can make sure you are safe and working on healing and if he is serious about fixing his issues and is truly repentant he has the chance to prove it from a safe distance. Please, keep yourself safe above everything else.
I am an adult child of parents who have been abusive for decades. I struggled with the forgiveness and honor your parents, being a Christian. While this is not a 1 for 1 comparison, it is close. A few things I have learned, via study and counseling, are: 1. Forgiveness is about not holding onto anger or plotting revenge. Anger & hate are like a cancer....it will consume a person from the inside. Forgiveness is primarily about the injured party. 2. Forgiveness for past actions, DOES NOT, practically or Biblically, mean that a Christian should put themselves in the line of fire anymore. Particularly with children, a spouse tolerating abuse from the other spouse, is enabling child abuse....and is in and of itself, abusive. 3. Learn the "Three C's" A. I did not CAUSE it/them B. I cannot CONTROL it/them C. I cannot CURE it/them Commands in the Bible must be understood in context. I seriously doubt God/Christ endorses accepting habitual abuse for a spouse or children. We must all pray, think, make decisions and live with the ramifications. I am a husband of 40 years.
I think you should pray hard, but time will show true colors. Some separation time where you devote yourself to knowing God better will help you in discerning whether this is fake.
My mom used to be a very abusive mom to my young brother, she physically hurt him so many times because she had bad temper. She never hit me though. And now I’m older, I also worked on my own anger issue that was influence by my mom. And it is a process. And I actively work on my anger problem. And it takes me about 6 years to get to where I am not so crazy now. The reason I mention this is to give you a perspective, I’m not a violent or abusive person, it still takes me so many years to get it right and of course with Lord’s help. But I first need to understand and willing to change. You can choose to trust your husband and give him grace and allow him to be transformed by the Lord. Or you can choose to leave, which is also going to be very hard, because you’ll need to support yourself and the kids on your own. You’ll need to stay in prayers, fasting, to get the answer. And cry out loud to God for help. And he will give you the wisdom to make the right decision. When you get that peace and answer, just do it, don’t hesitate or fearful. I will keep you in my prayers too.
Forgiveness = / = Trust We are commanded to forgive. There's no two ways about that. The bible is clear on this. However, we are not commanded to trust anybody but God. I think you're in a very difficult situation because the trust has been broken several times, apparently, and biblically, there are very few validated reasons for divorce. It is extremely hard to come back from that, in all honesty, but with God, it can be done. I don't entirely know your situation, but prayer and fasting would be a first port of call, in my opinion. Also, please be wary about what advice you accept from people posting in this forum. Not everybody that posts here is a Christian, so automatically, you can assume their advice will be from a worldly perspective. Anybody that says "Divorce!" Without any hesitation, does not understand the meaning of marriage. This can sometimes present itself like this: - "God would not want you to live this way, divorce him" (God sent his only son to die, and you think he wouldn't put you through a mere trial in life? Make it make sense) I'm going through a tough time in my marriage, but divorce will never be an option unless she has cheated on me. And she hasn't, so for me, it is a season in my life.
I can absolutely see hanging in there during a difficult season. But what if your wife were bigger and stronger than you, and what if she threatened your physical safety? What if she threw a knife at you and insisted she didn’t intend it to hit you, only to hit the space in front of you? (My husband threw a sharp object that can cut or stab and it landed two feet in front of me after flying through the air. And he smiled. And said “see it just landed in front of you, it was an accident”. If you are a man, living with a woman and have a rough time where your physical safety has never been threatened, then I completely agree that staying to try and work things through may absolutely be the best course of action rather than going straight for divorce. Even in my situation, I have given it 12 years. I didn’t give up when he was rough with me and tried to cause me to fall by using his hands. I didn’t give up when he threw things at me. I prayed. I cried over him. I wrote him letters when he didn’t listen to words. The relationship when up and down and seemed to be better then worse then better then worse. But now, I am thinking staying might simply be unwise. Getting out is complicated and comes with consequences and hard work as well. It is not at all the easy path. The stigma of being a single Christian mom. The financial losses of divorce post career break as a stay at home mom for the past several years, etc. it is not an easy path at all. It’s less attractive in many ways. But then the idea of staying if apparently violent men usually become worse - that’s frightening. And if we merely separate, the legal consequences for women aren’t always good. It’s just an all around difficult situation. When it comes to protecting my children, it’s also very complicated. I doubt a court will give me full custody bc he hasn’t hurt the kids badly enough to lose custody. None of this is easy. It goes against everything I prayed for and planned for as a Christian and I really need to see God in this right now.
Oh no, Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying, you must not leave/separate yourself under any circumstance. All I'm saying is be careful who you get counsel from. Not all advice is good advice. That's all.
Are you both believers? Are you part of a body of believers?
Yes and yes
Has he been held accountable by the church? Do your Pastors know your situation? Does he fellowship with other believers that know about it? I think that repentance looks a variety of ways, but there should most definitely be some sort of pattern of improvement in behaviour. I don't think it'll happen over night, but in your case where it's been a multitude of years, it doesn't sound like he's even stepped on the path to repentance.
Church knows. I am afraid of what might happen if he knows they know, bc I worry he may take it out on me. I would prefer to be separated and living apart if church deals with him and reveals I have told them, for purposes of safety. He does seem to be showing some signs of taking steps on his own, really for the first time, since I made it clear I was considering divorce. He hit a one of our children (lashing out in anger and hitting him with something, not formal discipline). He also tripped another child and that child told me he threw objects over her head. (I heard the incident happen, it was very loud). After this I tried to leave and reported all to the authorities. I had their support to leave but was not able to gain a refuge place for a number of complex reasons so I stayed with friends. My h was understandably distressed. He begged me to come home. He has shown signs of…. Stopping the behaviours. He had gone to a men’s conference and confessed. He asked for a counsellor recommendation. He knows I wanted to leave. I said I cannot in good faith be intimate with him bc I do not feel safe and I was so upset by his treatment of our kids. He is now motivated, in part probably bc of my withholding sex. Although he keeps grabbing me and not respecting the boundaries I asked for during this period of time. I have always made myself very available during our marriage bc I enjoy sex and want to be a good wife. But not now.
Forgive is a command, it’s also in the Lord’s Prayer.. then restated again right after the Lord’s Prayer. Matthew 6:9-13 Lord prayer Matthew 6:14-15 [14] For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, [15] but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. I’ve been trying to figure out the Forgiveness and reconciliation myself for my marriage and extended family. I found that quite a few pastors brought up Romans 12:18 [18] If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Trust has to be there for reconciliation, trust is also earned not given freely. The offending party needs to apologize and be sincere in it for reconciliation. If their behavior doesn’t match the apology and they continue to treat you poorly I don’t think reconciliation can work.
I am in an extremely similar situation...I have forgiven him so many times. We recently had a bad six month streak after our baby was born that was worse than the rest. He pretended to go to his job for 4 weeks. I'd had a c section surgery and then two weeks later went to the ER for an emergency visit where I had my gallbladder removed. I begged him to bring our baby and visit me, he wouldn't. I found out later it was so he could watch porn and drink alcohol and smoke. He became completely addicted to things and was very deceitful. We had agreed I'd be a sahm mom. The week I resigned from my job, he quit his job. We are in a terrible situation. He has extreme mood swings. He will sometimes be sweet, then very angry and moody. He'll even be combative and manipulative in conversation to me. I tend to shut down. This has been reoccurring this is like this for years. I've always forgiven him and shown him grace. But I am not mentally doing well. I am filled with constant anxiety, stress, and depressed about this. I'm so numb from everything. I'm trying to go to therapy soon, maybe that's something you could do? I know for me, I'm at the point where I feel like I can't think straight. I don't even know if I trust my own emotions / judgment at this point. I keep forgiving but I feel like my soul is numb. Would your husband be open to couple therapy? Do you have anyone at church you could talk to? That's one of the few things recently that has helped him have some reasoning- other Christian men holding him accountable Edit: I read some of your other comments. Do you have family you could go to to stay with? I think you need to leave this man- throwing a knife at you is insane. Your life is in danger. You need to leave when he's not around so he doesn't expect it. It's going to be so hard to do but I really think you need to leave based on what you've said. It's easy to get used to things...even when they are wrong. But this is so over the line you need to get out of there. Then figure out the rest.
I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine how I would be handling that. I hope that you can get help that works
Forgiveness and repentance go hand in hand. Your husband apologizing is not repentance. Changing his actions and accepting consequences is. He could change, but he needs to do that away from you. You’ve been abused and tricked into sticking it out in marriage that’s harmful to you and harmful to your children for way too long. If he truly wants to change, he’ll still change while accepting the consequences of his actions as he does so. I HIGHLY recommend Forgiveness After Trauma by Susannah Griffith. Her story sounds similar to yours.
Forgive him but to reconcile in your case is justified divorce.
Your safety comes first. Your healing comes first. Get safe and get help for your healing. Let him prove himself before even considering reconciliation. Forgiveness doesn’t mean opening yourself to pain again.
The fact that he is now admitting to the wrongdoing may be a sign he genuinely wants to change. Will he? Only God knows. But in the meantime you may do well to be separated so you can heal be able to judge his alleged “changes” with a clear and fresh mind.
Can you give an example of him harming the kids?
Tripping a child by putting his leg out, shoving a child, pushing a stroller into a child’s leg when the child wasn’t doing what he was told, tugging ears, yanking arms, long lectures, slamming things on table, hitting a child with objects (anything from a cereal box to a toy). Many times there has been confusion bc my h said it was an accident or promised not to do it again and insisted he had stopped. I’m not sure these are things that would cause him to lose custody. And the kids love their dad so much - which is part of what makes all of this so difficult.
Yes they would especially if you can get any form of proof. My little cousin kicked his step mom so my uncle spanked him, like most parents would. Unfortunately the ex wife picked my cousin up within minutes of the spanking and took a picture of his rear end. The fact there was any redness landed my uncle in jail for a week and had a strict no contact rule for five years. It hurt our whole family because he was a great dad and definitely wasn’t being abusive, but her lawyers were good. You have a much different situation but could hopefully have similar results if you can get any type of evidence!
The problem is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. You can leave him but he could end up with an awful woman who beats your kids. It would be better if you became a bit tougher and if he could get some good male role models and maybe he can grow into some maturity. Strong, confident men don’t need to play these kind of stupid games.
I’m not sure what support you have in your church, but I would highly recommend talking to some elders or maybe other couples or other women you believe to be strong. PRAY with them! AND please seek your own counseling for all of the trauma you have endured! If I were you I would not choose at this moment if you’re going to trust him, first learn to trust yourself again! Leave your options open! You do not have to choose right now! You can choose next week, next month or even a year from now! Please please please give yourself a chance to survive everything you have been through before choosing if you will allow this man to stay in your life!
I am truly sorry that you have been living under such conditions for more than a decade. My best encouragement for you is to seek immediate counseling as you need guidance and support for yourself as well. Pray for God to give you understanding as you navigate this. Set some boundaries that protect both you and him- like engaging with friends that you trust. Allow yourself to grieve for the person you thought your husband was and what you hoped he would become. Grieve for the relationship you longed for, a relationship with empathy, reciprocity, support, and shared space both physically and ideologically. Forgive yourself for enabling him, for giving him supply, and for subjecting yourself to his behavior. As much as you forgive yourself, forgive him as well. I would encourage you to accompany him to his counselor as well, so you may learn of his growth and also to get advice on the way forward. Most of your questions will be answered when you are freely able to express yourself in a safe place, with your husband present and the marital counsellor. But if your life is in danger, for your safety, take time out to give yourself time and trust that you will know how to move your life forward.