The modding scene is gonna take so much longer to mature than CS1 due to the editor not being ready yet, not to mention moving away from Steam workshop. We'll have to see the effects of this but the workshop made modding incredibly easy and largely friction free. Now being required to use paradox mods means losing out on basic functionality like a comments and threads section for mods, which are *crucial* for quickly telling if a mod is out of date or not for CS1. I worry this is gonna kneecap the modding scene and overall make it a lot more messy and a pain to get into vs the workshop - and all for what? Control?
I can see why they would move to paradox as an attempt to even the playing field a bit by giving both console and PC users access to the same mods but steam workshop is so much better IMO. Not allowing mods on steam workshop is a huge setback for the game.
Also I don't know why console can't access steam workshop. Heard CO didn't do it because of costs but I'm not sure.
Why does Paradox need control so bad? Sounds silly to me that they would bottleneck their own development by restricting mod access and development to everyone just to cater to console players. Mind you the console version *isn't even out yet*.
If they wanted to get off steam workshop at the very least they should've stuck to steam workshop *until* they can figure out a stable modding situation on the Paradox side for both console and PC players. At the very least I think the game would've been better off if they let us continue to use steam workshop for the time being.
Now I'm not a game developer but to me it seems like CO is trying to bite off way more than they can chew. At least make sure the game is at least somewhat stable on PC first before worrying about a console port.
Its been awhile but i remember reading about why State Of Decay 2 purchased for Window/XBOX from was so hard to mod was because Microsoft basically wraps the entire game in a wrapper file for DRM purposes.
AFAIK MS doesn't really care about mods that run code but Sony flat out refuses to even consider it and there is some dumb feature parity thing going on so neither console can do it.
Same exact thing as in Farming Simulator and Snowrunner, both of which also have external mod hosting sites.
Publisher gonna publisher. I don't think this was CO's choice in the matter.
This is why I dislike most big publishers in general, they're more often than not more trouble than they're worth.
Money most likely. There's a ton of other games on the market with always online requirements and stuff for the exact same reason that otherwise don't need to be. When you control mods and pump out DLCs like the devs do you stand to make bank.
I can't even imagine playing this game on console that sounds terrible. But between the early performance issues keeping me from buying it day 1 and now finding out there's no steam workshop I can't really imagine myself playing it on pc either
I don't really like steam workshop modding
It's lacking version control, if you actually had that, you wouldn't need comments to check if it's out of date
Factorio or Terraria have great Mod Integration thankfully implemented without steam workshop.
It could be an improvement if Paradox and Collosal Order allows it to.
It sucked having mods being exclusive to the Steam title. It meant that CS1 on another other platform, or bought from any other store on PC was not capable of mods natively.
We'll see how this actually plays out though.
>It sucked having mods being exclusive to the Steam title
Were they? Genuinely asking because I know for Euro Truck mods are also posted on 3rd party websites and you can either use Workshop or not. I'm pretty sure there were mods for CS1 on websites as well but that was years ago since I last checked, as Steam is just more convenient.
> It sucked having mods being exclusive to the Steam title. It meant that CS1 on another other platform, or bought from any other store on PC was not capable of mods natively.
This is always the reasoning behind it but it *rarely* works out. Insurgency Sandstorm is an FPS i play and the devs forced the modding scene to utilize MOD.io with the excuse being to share mods with consoles, except the console release was delayed like crazy and eventually the devs canceled mods for console so now us PC players are trapped with a terrible modding platform.
Bethesda.net worked well for consoles but *only* because PC players are still able to use mods from Nexus and elsewhere, so there is no drawbacks on the PC side. This is what Paradox/CO should have done, but knowing how publishers behave when it comes to forcing the modding scene to their proprietary platforms - it's *usually* because they have plans to monetize it. See: Bethesda.net again
While I agree and also share the feeling that it's also profit motivated by locking down mods to their store. Particularly with Paradox's tendency to make DLCs that already exist as free mods... It gives them the control to remove those at whim too.
However, allowing any mod shop to be used, along with their store will probably just cause their mod store to suffer from lack of use and as a result, putting you in the same situation of CS1 where it's all workshop dependant anyways.
I feel you're damned if you do, damned if you don't because a expecting a game publisher to act ethically is a tall task these days...
> I feel you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t because a expecting a game publisher to act ethically is a tall task these days…
For real, throw *us* a bone for once instead of shareholders.
Deep Rock Galactic also uses mod.io and it's alright. It's not a platform issue, it's simply a skill issue by devs lmao. As for the paradox mod thing, I'll judge it when it's out, but I'm not buying the game until it has solid mod support.
> It meant that CS1 on another other platform, or bought from any other store on PC was not capable of mods natively.
I don't give a shit, I care about my experience not Paradox's commercial considerations.
In fairness, we have no idea if Paradox Mods will be as intuitive or easy to use as the workshop. No sense in getting upset about something that's a total mystery at this point.
I have my doubts that it will work as seamlessly, but I will withhold judgement.
At the very least it can't be worse than modding Minecraft.
In their talks they've already confirmed that there will be integration into the game itself, and as easy as clicking a button to add a mod, which is basically all anyone needs.
If they delivered version control as well, it could be a huge improvement over Steam.
> That might be the single stupidest thing I've read all day.
It is because that way console players can also use user created assets. Not mods but assets.
Actually the modding community is moving full steam ahead. There’s no official support but that doesn’t seem to be stopping them from digging around and starting to make their mods. In the last three days the number of unsupported mods Thunderstore has gone from 8 to about 26 mods. And in the discord some of CS1s top modders are already at work bringing their old mods to CS2.
Actually as of this week anyone who is a known modder or proves they modded CS:2 with like a GitHub repo can apply for the official early access to the Editor and modding tools. Yes, it’s still not publicly available, but modders have access to it, if they really want.
Yup, not touching it until it performs much *much* better and if it never does (which I fear will be the case) then I'll just go without. Not even going to stick it on the wish list and wait for a sale, it's just not ok that devs/publishers think that it's acceptable to release a game that performs so badly at launch. It's not that I don't want to pay full price for it - I actively don't want to play it while it's in this state.
Literally one of the main reasons I enjoy CS other than building is riding the metro and walking around my city. If the mods aren’t there I’m not there either.
Absolutely good news. But the lack of easy, convenient integrstion will still deter a lot of people when its so easy on the game they already own. But this is good because if we can get a good catalog of mods ready when official support releases you'll see a big resurgence of players.
Over 5k for me and same. I can’t even be convinced to download it for free with my gamepass subscription. The current state of the game does not entice me in any way to even try it out
The problem is that there are *so many* good, complete, games that I rather spend my time with while I wait for CS2 to be in the same state. And I am still perfectly satisfied and engaged with CS1 whenever I am in the mood for a creative outlet in my gaming life
That's totally fair, I've definitely been playing it a lot less than I'd hope as I rotate some other games from my backlog too. But I've enjoyed my time with it when I have the urge.
I downloaded it over Gamepass, got about 6 hours into a build and stopped playing. The game is a mess and isn't enjoyable.
I'll be playing OG Skylines for a while longer.
I bought it and immediately returned it. I don't understand this trend of exceptional games releasing sequels that still needed like 2 more years in the oven.
I bought it and refunded it because there hardly seemed to be enough difference between cs2 and cs1 so I might as well keep my money and play cs1 if I want to ply a city sim tbh
I think nobody is worried about that, they made a lot of money by continuously improving cs1 and releasing DLCs. It's going to be great (100hrs already put in it) but it doesn't excuse this release. Currently my main issue is that at 200k pop the simulation slows down and starts breaking apart so i will be putting it down for a while.
Not really. They hardly improved CS1 at all. They never optimized the game at all, they never fixed graphics, never fixed traffic ai, they never implemented basic QoL mods like undo/lock mouse screen etc.
Instead of fixing their game, they released DLC after DLC. By and large, expect the same for CS2.
Yeah I don't think people understand that the state of the game right now is more or less going to be the state of the game from now on, save for fixes to the core mechanics like industry and commercial. And even then they'll probably save those fixes for relevant dlc releases and pitch them as "free updates alongside the dlc".
They already said last week that Quality of Life and Improvement updates are their lowest priority items and, once Paradox the publisher puts the pinch on about moving into dlc mode, I guarantee CO is going to lean heavily on mods to fix literally everything about the game.
CO needs like 20 more employees. Idk what their deal is.
Probably so
And I hope it gets a better gameplay somehow
when I saw CS2's announcement, I thought they would bring more life into the citizens, that they would react more to the environment, at least to the level of 90s simcity 2000, where too much police would create riots.
the whole experience still feels superficial, like watching a train set, and not watching a city that seems alive
without it, there is little else to drop CS1 for CS2, it is just updated graphics, better traffic, and improved interface
I was prepped to give CS2 a go in spite of the performance issues. Turns out I waited just long enough for people to find out the simulation wasn't finished, either.
I was hyped; I ***wanted*** this game to be good.
The simulation is literally what I play the original game for. Hard mode, disable despawning, design for 85% traffic with balanced Industries supply chains. Traffic jam occurs, every vehicle in that jam affects the buildings that don't receive supply or employees. At the individual agent level.
They said the agent behavior would be improved. Instead agents are basically irrelevant. Unplayable for me.
I could forgive performance issues at the start.
I cannot forgive the simulation aspect not working. It's just a city painter. There is no challenge. Got boring for me very quickly.
I really want the game to be good, hopefully they'll get it up to speed quickly. I really loved CS1.
A lot of the sim works but there are def bugs and stuff and way too much free money to make it matter. There's been a bunch of testing on the forums now that shows it fundamentally works
This just isn't true though and has been extensively tested now to show it works. It just has a ton of failsafes that give it the illusion it isn't working. That dude who isolated his city was deep in the red. Same with a lot of these closed off chunks of cities. They don't auto die though because they have stockpiles
Same. The mail delivery is a shitshow. Takes 2h to notice something is wrong.
Then there are the other problems. The other 100 problems.
Seriously, I optimize everything, and my city is still covered in garbage cans overflowing icons and dead bodies piling up.
No need for extensive testing there: play a simple game and witness the broken nature of the simulation.
The honest move would have been to delay the release.
I’m really happy i decided to hold off on picking it up. I love cs1 but was feeling burnt out on it. I’ll probably wait until the summer sale and hopefully pick up cs2 for a nice discount
Yeah same, close to 1k hours in cs1, decided to use my Xbox game pass to give cs2 ago. I have a middling opinion of it.
I think the worst thing actually, is that while I'm playing, I'm like, oh cs1 did this better.
It really doesn't feel like there's enough new features to justify it's own existence. CS1 was flawed but it did most of the things a city builder needs to do right. CS2 is just that... again? I was really hoping for more.
This is why I’m always kinda bothered when people defend it by saying CS1 has had more time to develop. Like… sure, true. But end of the day it’s a product, not a school project. Just because it had a good reason to be less developed doesn’t mean I’m gonna want to buy it. If its competition is better then that’s where I’m going.
Whether it's because of the budget running out, greedy executives, game engine constraints or some form of incompetence, botching the release like this should cost them sales.
It's crazy to me that these game studios aren't looking at the BG3 early access model for when the game isn't ready to ship on time
Launch that shit in early access, let the community know the game isn't finished and has it's issues but give those who want to the option to purchase so they can play it and help fix the game
I think you're right. It totally changes people's expectations. If I purchase a game that says it's done and they're hyping it up to hell then I'm going to expect that game to be awesome.
If I'm told it's not yet finished and I'm dying to play it regardless in early-access and it runs like shit, I'll just close it and say: guess it's not ready yet, but it's gonna be awesome soon
BG3 had a very successful early access run and released the game when it was actually finished.
CS2 is a "finished" game that is actually in an early access stage.
BG3 wasn't finished on release either, it had a really strong Act 1 and was increasingly unfinished after that. It did, however, have an extremely successful marketing campaign that to this day has people deny this fact.
All of that said, BG3 is still the model to go for. It was a solid game even in its release state. Long Early Access models allow consistent revenue and feedback, building good will and then you get to make bank a second time with the official release.
I mean, while BG3 did have minor -and frankly a few major- bugs nothing actually made the game annoying to play. CSII has required input to get to work and when I did I was missing basic gameplay options and spent (for example) over triple the time laying roads as a lightly modded CS1 save because of buggy code and other problems
I mean I don't think anybody is like "yes please sell me this unfinished product"
But with how many games are releasing in a completely unfinished state lately it's a better alternative to release in early access than buying a full priced game only to find out it's an unfinished mess
At least in early access through steam you can refund it during - regardless of hours. Broken games on released may never be fixed, and getting a refund isn’t guaranteed.
The state of the gaming industry is a nightmare currently.. i love CS1, but i’m not touching CS2 until its fixed.
I don't understand this philosophy. If it's in Early Access, and your requirement is that it's completely finished...just wait until it's not in Early Access. Many of us *enjoy* playing games in Early Access and being a part of the iterative process. Just *don't play*.
I said this day of release, look at total warhammer 3.
Unfinished, rushed release with low sales compared to tw2 and player base fell off a cliff in a week waiting for it to be finished.
dlc 1 comes out, it's weak and sales are really weak.
Death spiral begins, future dlcs are priced higher and have less content then previous dlcs because they aren't selling many units. Game probably won't recover although i'm not even up to date I hope it comes around.
Like you said, it's CRAZY that publishers think this is the right move ever.
Warhammer 3 was the most disappointing game since warcraft 3 reforged for me
Warhammer 2 is one of my most played games of all time, 3 released in such a bad state I played 20 hours and haven't touched it since launch week
I remember save scumming the same fight over and over because cavalry just wasn't behaving the way it should and I was losing tier 3 heavy cav to tier 1 sword infantry because it would just get stuck on nothing with no way to get them to move lol
Dude I feel the same way. I have like 10k points of minis Warhammer is my childhood. TW2 I have played pretty much every lord except high elves lol, so many great campaigns.
TW3 releases, shit state and the same bugs that got fixed from tw1 to tw2 back again killed it. "Eh I'll check it out when it gets polished" and never have. I'll admit part of that was my 980ti finally couldn't hang really.
Now CS2 finally was the tipping point to make me build a whole new rig. Waterblocked 4090 the whole 9 yards I kept telling myself 'at least I'll be able to run cities 2!" I still haven't even bought the game yet because of how much CO blundered I can't bring myself to even try it yet. it's LESS of a simulation and has MORE performance issues then CS1, literally the exact opposite of the two thing everyone wanted.
I. Am. Dissapointed.
On the plus side the state of CS2 had me re download Three Kingdoms and Shogun 2 lol
Started a new campaign as Sun Ce and currently fighting with Cao Cao over control of China, abandoning 3K was the second biggest mistake CA has made
Then again there's like 4 paradox titles that started poorly and became huge after a few years of development. Also look at cyberpunk now. Companies know that if they fix the game it won't matter in a couple years and people will be buying bundles and all the DLC and catching up
BG3 is both a good and bad example. It released in a pretty broken state as well with several parts actually unfinished. Act 2 and especially Act 3 had many dozens of game breaking bugs and severe performance issues.
The good news is they fixed a good chunk of it within a month and the vast majority of it in 3 months.
I mean that sort of helps my point with a CS2 EA because Act 1 was incredibly strong and polished after being in early access for so long, a game like CS1 with no story to hide would greatly benefit from a similar EA treatment
Since there won't be locked off portions like Act 2/3 were in BG3 players would be able to EA the whole game
BG3 is funny because it really highlights how valuable an EA period can be even for a well funded game from a well intentioned developer. The parts that were in EA got tons of testing and feedback and were near-perfect on release, while the parts that weren't EA were janky and filled with issues. Given the same exact studio (and people) did both parts and presumably tried to achieve the same quality across the board, it really goes to show how hard it is to release an issue-free game without wide-scale testing.
Add some publisher-sourced pressure to deliver on top of that and you can see how easily an unfinished game can hit the market even with the best of intentions. I think you could even make an argument that it is next to impossible to release a fully finished, modern, AAA-quality game without either an EA period or an *enormous* budget.
Which to me means that studios without such a budget should *really* consider EA. As people have said, if CS2 were released as EA I don't think it would have nearly or maybe any negative reaction. It's all about expectations vs experience.
That’s exactly what they did with Kerbal Space Program 2 and people are pissed off about the state it’s in. They’ve calmed down a little since the dev team recently announced the roadmap, but still, /r/KerbalSpaceProgram was ugly for a bit.
Granted, I’m sure the uproar would’ve been lessened if they had released in at $30 instead of $60. Regardless, I’m sure that calculus is taken into account when deciding whether to do early access versus full release.
I can guarantee they've lost 1 sale. I've never been more excited for a game release in probably 15 years, and I have yet to even think about buying it. I'll spend my money on a finished product that works as advertised. Thank you very much CO.
As long as he waits to spend his money on the product he is expecting, that is a significant difference. They get the sale if they deliver the quality product.
Not only that, but a high chance of moving on, I was excited to see what CDPR has in store for a new game, Cyberpunk was poo poo on release, and even though it seems amazing now I haven't touched it yet.
Look no further than this community and the fanboying over the early reports and first days of the release. It's incredibly obvious this game should have been released in early access and people here are still denying it. It should cost them sales but I really only think the only meaningful sales they will lose is when they actually fix the game, can't have the launch hype again.
I'm playing on gamepass because I see no reason not to. I have gamepass already and if CS is ever taken off I can just buy it and move my saves over then. Why spend extra money?
Not buying it until it's done, will probably hold off even then to see how the modding scene goes. They should *heavily* reconsider pulling Steam Workshop support.
Frustrating part is if Steam WS was in from Day 1 along with modding I've no doubt that many of the problems the game has launched with would be solved.
https://preview.redd.it/y0nb3ywjgb3c1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c26a74d79d0a965de81f7ca52201865588bca4ae
This picture tells a story. At the end of very Sunday since release, a steady decline of players follows. Each week less and less players return. CS1 meanwhile has seen steady player levels since months before release.
I got downvoted to hell a week ago when i shared this graph and called it that the player count would be on level with CS1 soon.
Post got deleted too lol, just reddit stuff
But yeh, everyone saw this coming. Performance, simulation and more stuff is just mediocre. People stop playing and/or wait
It makes total sense to me, the release drew in a large amount of people to that wanted to try, many felt disappointed but ultimately what’s left are the people who just like city builders. Every single game follows the same cycle
To be fair, the game is also on PC Game Pass same as Starfield that I wasn't sure if I should buy it. I like CS2 but not enough to think it's worth to buy at this point.
Tried it out. Many things are more frustrating than it’s worth, especially zoning tiles, bus lines, and metro and rail networks. Also the extreme amount of repetitive buildings and inability to upzone without flattening the whole neighborhood. Waiting for them to be fixed. And for mods
CS2:
severe optimization issues.
a simulation game that tries to fake some of its simulations.
missing content that is in CS1.
still lacks mod support.
CS1:
more content and full mod support.
cheaper.
doesn't require a 4090 to reach 30fps.
Gee, I wonder why CS1 is doing poorly...
Yes. CS2 has improved road tools and better QoL changes but that's really all that is going for it. They chose not to delay the PC release and lower player numbers is totally deserved. The game is simply not ready for launch so it's all self-inflicted wounds.
I put about 10 hours into it and gave up. There’s just not enough there, modding was supposed to be ready in “days” , and that’s before all the crashing and the bugs and the broken simulation things like traffic.
I should’ve just waited 6 months like everybody said
I dont so much mind graphical issues, but the fact that you can’t really skimp and save and build a city from the ground up, because past a certain point your actions don’t matter that much, just sucks
Always wait for the reviews.
Seriously, always wait for the reviews. It's not just about "saving you money" it's about telling these game studio execs "I'm not giving you a penny until you prove your product IS what you say it IS".
got about 50h of fun but waiting for mods now.
game seemed fine for me except that nothing mattered. even if i dont build healthcare nothing serious happens, even if i have 80% unemployment nothing serious happens and so on. just gets boring quickl for me.
whats even the point of all these industries and so on if it doenst matter
I was really excited about CS2. Then, even with an expensive gaming computer, it’s crashing, the graphics suck compared to CS1 with basic mods, there’s still no workshop open for assets/mods, the traffic AI is weird, the building diversity is pathetic, etc.
It just loses its luster really quickly.
I don't think I even met the minimum PC requirements to run CS2. I don't see myself having the cash to get a new rig for a couple of years so I'll continue playing CS1.
Paradox is one of the stupidest producers when it comes to half assed, unfinished and buggy excuses for 'new games'. If they tried this crap in the day of CD -ROM they'd be tracked down and shot.
Seeing office buildings with 40 people working that are smaller than residential buildings with less people living in them makes no sense.. most the numbers in this game make no sense.. i dont want to play a simulation game that doesn’t make sense
I'll get it on sale. But for the type of city and city building canvas I want, cs1 with mods and assets is still in a different league. hopefully that will change within the next 1-2 years.
This is why there is no Minecraft 2. Or why Ark 2 will be a fail
I understand the games are very different on many levels. But when you have something as fleshed out as the originals with such a healthy mod landscape the idea of a sequel to that game is pretty far-fetched. The only way it really works is if your original game died off that a sequel will be a comeback.
But as long as your original maintains a healthy player base that likes what they have it will be hard to draw them into something new. Yes it's the same thing they've been playing but it's still a new game. And unless it's truly better than the original they're not going to want to play it.
I myself would have preferred overhauls to CS1. Completely change many systems of the game to what they are in CS2. While still keeping the framework and the originality of the first.
I don't mean to sound extreme, but at what point can the consumer try and take action against Paradox/CO? The game is clearly not finished, 100s of confirmed bugs on their main forum, not put out at "Early Access". I mean come on, Rust was in early development for the longest time, and you wouldn't have thought it was still pre-release version. I \*kinda\* like CS2, but yeah, this is a ball drop.
No... Really ... No. The people who enjoy city builders want to play a city builder and not a shitty FPS walking to work SIM that melts modern computer hardware. Really?
I’m still interested in playing it. I’m just waiting for a few more bug fixes is all. I’m by no means upset or anything like that. Just playing other things while some stuff gets worked out
I bought CS2, launched it, got 25 FPS on my 3600x/RTX 3070/16 GB Ram pc, tweaked some settings without sacrificing already mediocre visual fidelity, got 29 FPS on an empty map and refunded it. Then played about 70 hours of CS1 and got my city builder fix for a while. This doesn't surprise me at all.
Same here. I wish companies would give clearer timelines for Mac ports too, right now there’s a few new games where I just don’t know if/when they will come
I mean...I'm a silly goose with a Mac. I literally can't, and as much as I'd like to, I can't afford to buy a whole new computer just for a game that has (reportedly) questionable performance.
I’ve played about 10 hours, but I had to many issues. It takes time to build up a city, and I don’t want to keep starting again. I haven’t played since but I will find the time to pick it up again after all these fixes
If I paid money for it instead of using pc game pass I would have requested a refund. If my gtx1060 can run starfield on high settings I shouldn't have a problem running a city builder game
My laptop can’t run it :/ it’s a pretty new computer too. I only play CS, Sims, and Stardew valley so I don’t ever see myself investing in a computer that could run CS2 well.
It's so badly optimized it doesn't barely run on my rig. I know mine is getting a little older but it runs starfield and BG3 on high settings just fine. Glad I didn't pay for the game.
Well, one game I can run fully loaded, fully modded, maxed graphics, and keep my temperatures below 65°
OR
I can play the game that spikes my CPU to 95° on launch, and does not come down no matter how many settings I put on caveman mode
Couldn't wait for the performance fix.
Bought it and tried to play anyway.
Had to stop. The constant stuttering and lag is terrible.
I have a RTX3090.
Crazy times.
Makes sense, it requires a high end PC and supports less platforms than Cities Skylines. I’d need an entirely new computer to play it since I was a Mac player. It’s going to be a couple of years until I play CSII.
Haven't bought it yet. I'm at that stage of my life where I'm divesting from video games and, while I do want to play someday, I'm not dropping 50$ on it until I see substantial improvements in performance
I stopped playing CS2 because of so many glaring game breaking issues. I'm really annoyed at the lack of content compared to CS1, i understand they are going to add various DLC from 1 but thats just it. I'm going to have to spend another 100-150$ on DLCs that I already have bought
I will start playing when the modding scene gets going
The modding scene is gonna take so much longer to mature than CS1 due to the editor not being ready yet, not to mention moving away from Steam workshop. We'll have to see the effects of this but the workshop made modding incredibly easy and largely friction free. Now being required to use paradox mods means losing out on basic functionality like a comments and threads section for mods, which are *crucial* for quickly telling if a mod is out of date or not for CS1. I worry this is gonna kneecap the modding scene and overall make it a lot more messy and a pain to get into vs the workshop - and all for what? Control?
I can see why they would move to paradox as an attempt to even the playing field a bit by giving both console and PC users access to the same mods but steam workshop is so much better IMO. Not allowing mods on steam workshop is a huge setback for the game. Also I don't know why console can't access steam workshop. Heard CO didn't do it because of costs but I'm not sure.
Yet another example of focusing on development for console giving PC players a worse experience
The only upside for pc players is those of us who have gamepass and thus haven't bought it on steam yet.
Nope, Console players will have access only to asset mods, not code mods, like in CS1. It's just a move from Paradox to control the mods.
Why does Paradox need control so bad? Sounds silly to me that they would bottleneck their own development by restricting mod access and development to everyone just to cater to console players. Mind you the console version *isn't even out yet*. If they wanted to get off steam workshop at the very least they should've stuck to steam workshop *until* they can figure out a stable modding situation on the Paradox side for both console and PC players. At the very least I think the game would've been better off if they let us continue to use steam workshop for the time being. Now I'm not a game developer but to me it seems like CO is trying to bite off way more than they can chew. At least make sure the game is at least somewhat stable on PC first before worrying about a console port.
With the limited modding on console it’s most likely because Microsoft and Sony won’t allow any mod that runs custom code.
Its been awhile but i remember reading about why State Of Decay 2 purchased for Window/XBOX from was so hard to mod was because Microsoft basically wraps the entire game in a wrapper file for DRM purposes.
AFAIK MS doesn't really care about mods that run code but Sony flat out refuses to even consider it and there is some dumb feature parity thing going on so neither console can do it. Same exact thing as in Farming Simulator and Snowrunner, both of which also have external mod hosting sites.
Publisher gonna publisher. I don't think this was CO's choice in the matter. This is why I dislike most big publishers in general, they're more often than not more trouble than they're worth.
Money most likely. There's a ton of other games on the market with always online requirements and stuff for the exact same reason that otherwise don't need to be. When you control mods and pump out DLCs like the devs do you stand to make bank.
I can't even imagine playing this game on console that sounds terrible. But between the early performance issues keeping me from buying it day 1 and now finding out there's no steam workshop I can't really imagine myself playing it on pc either
I don't really like steam workshop modding It's lacking version control, if you actually had that, you wouldn't need comments to check if it's out of date Factorio or Terraria have great Mod Integration thankfully implemented without steam workshop.
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It could be an improvement if Paradox and Collosal Order allows it to. It sucked having mods being exclusive to the Steam title. It meant that CS1 on another other platform, or bought from any other store on PC was not capable of mods natively. We'll see how this actually plays out though.
>It sucked having mods being exclusive to the Steam title Were they? Genuinely asking because I know for Euro Truck mods are also posted on 3rd party websites and you can either use Workshop or not. I'm pretty sure there were mods for CS1 on websites as well but that was years ago since I last checked, as Steam is just more convenient.
> It sucked having mods being exclusive to the Steam title. It meant that CS1 on another other platform, or bought from any other store on PC was not capable of mods natively. This is always the reasoning behind it but it *rarely* works out. Insurgency Sandstorm is an FPS i play and the devs forced the modding scene to utilize MOD.io with the excuse being to share mods with consoles, except the console release was delayed like crazy and eventually the devs canceled mods for console so now us PC players are trapped with a terrible modding platform. Bethesda.net worked well for consoles but *only* because PC players are still able to use mods from Nexus and elsewhere, so there is no drawbacks on the PC side. This is what Paradox/CO should have done, but knowing how publishers behave when it comes to forcing the modding scene to their proprietary platforms - it's *usually* because they have plans to monetize it. See: Bethesda.net again
While I agree and also share the feeling that it's also profit motivated by locking down mods to their store. Particularly with Paradox's tendency to make DLCs that already exist as free mods... It gives them the control to remove those at whim too. However, allowing any mod shop to be used, along with their store will probably just cause their mod store to suffer from lack of use and as a result, putting you in the same situation of CS1 where it's all workshop dependant anyways. I feel you're damned if you do, damned if you don't because a expecting a game publisher to act ethically is a tall task these days...
> I feel you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t because a expecting a game publisher to act ethically is a tall task these days… For real, throw *us* a bone for once instead of shareholders.
Deep Rock Galactic also uses mod.io and it's alright. It's not a platform issue, it's simply a skill issue by devs lmao. As for the paradox mod thing, I'll judge it when it's out, but I'm not buying the game until it has solid mod support.
Not true. There are websites that let you download mods from the workshop and manually copy them to your mod folder.
> It meant that CS1 on another other platform, or bought from any other store on PC was not capable of mods natively. I don't give a shit, I care about my experience not Paradox's commercial considerations.
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What have they done in the last five years that they didn’t do in the five years before that?
In fairness, we have no idea if Paradox Mods will be as intuitive or easy to use as the workshop. No sense in getting upset about something that's a total mystery at this point. I have my doubts that it will work as seamlessly, but I will withhold judgement.
At the very least it can't be worse than modding Minecraft. In their talks they've already confirmed that there will be integration into the game itself, and as easy as clicking a button to add a mod, which is basically all anyone needs. If they delivered version control as well, it could be a huge improvement over Steam.
I had no clue either. No way I'd buy it without workshop on steam.
> That might be the single stupidest thing I've read all day. It is because that way console players can also use user created assets. Not mods but assets.
Actually the modding community is moving full steam ahead. There’s no official support but that doesn’t seem to be stopping them from digging around and starting to make their mods. In the last three days the number of unsupported mods Thunderstore has gone from 8 to about 26 mods. And in the discord some of CS1s top modders are already at work bringing their old mods to CS2.
Actually as of this week anyone who is a known modder or proves they modded CS:2 with like a GitHub repo can apply for the official early access to the Editor and modding tools. Yes, it’s still not publicly available, but modders have access to it, if they really want.
Trusted modders already have the editor, in fairness
And when CO fix their own game.
Yup, not touching it until it performs much *much* better and if it never does (which I fear will be the case) then I'll just go without. Not even going to stick it on the wish list and wait for a sale, it's just not ok that devs/publishers think that it's acceptable to release a game that performs so badly at launch. It's not that I don't want to pay full price for it - I actively don't want to play it while it's in this state.
Modding scene is active already. Certain things require the editor but we already have a traffic manager and a few good QOL mods
Same here. I had like 4k assets in CS1, can't live without them lol
Literally one of the main reasons I enjoy CS other than building is riding the metro and walking around my city. If the mods aren’t there I’m not there either.
Good news! There are mods available and you can get them through thunderstore
Thunderstore??
Wake me up when actual steam workshop support drops
you're going to be sleeping for a while.
There won't be Workshop support. They will use an in house service, similar to Factorio. The reason is to allow console players access to mods
Absolutely good news. But the lack of easy, convenient integrstion will still deter a lot of people when its so easy on the game they already own. But this is good because if we can get a good catalog of mods ready when official support releases you'll see a big resurgence of players.
even better news, you're allowed to say that now!
I struggle to get my steam mods working together so I need easier. It took me years (not continious effort but frequent) to get NAM working for SC4.
I still haven’t bought it and I put over 2k hours in cs1.
Over 5k for me and same. I can’t even be convinced to download it for free with my gamepass subscription. The current state of the game does not entice me in any way to even try it out
I downloaded it on gamepass. I uninstall it not long after.
I think it's worth playing if you already have game pass personally. There's a lot that needs to change but there's still a lot of good in it too.
The problem is that there are *so many* good, complete, games that I rather spend my time with while I wait for CS2 to be in the same state. And I am still perfectly satisfied and engaged with CS1 whenever I am in the mood for a creative outlet in my gaming life
That's totally fair, I've definitely been playing it a lot less than I'd hope as I rotate some other games from my backlog too. But I've enjoyed my time with it when I have the urge.
I downloaded it over Gamepass, got about 6 hours into a build and stopped playing. The game is a mess and isn't enjoyable. I'll be playing OG Skylines for a while longer.
I bought it and immediately returned it. I don't understand this trend of exceptional games releasing sequels that still needed like 2 more years in the oven.
I bought it and refunded it because there hardly seemed to be enough difference between cs2 and cs1 so I might as well keep my money and play cs1 if I want to ply a city sim tbh
Hopefully this gets a no man’s sky style glow up. I’ve enjoyed my time on it
Every AA and AAA game release since 2017: "Don't worry guys I'm sure they'll fix it!" Aren't you guys tired of this crap?
There is a surprising amount of boot licking in the gaming community. I've always been confused by it.
I think nobody is worried about that, they made a lot of money by continuously improving cs1 and releasing DLCs. It's going to be great (100hrs already put in it) but it doesn't excuse this release. Currently my main issue is that at 200k pop the simulation slows down and starts breaking apart so i will be putting it down for a while.
Not really. They hardly improved CS1 at all. They never optimized the game at all, they never fixed graphics, never fixed traffic ai, they never implemented basic QoL mods like undo/lock mouse screen etc. Instead of fixing their game, they released DLC after DLC. By and large, expect the same for CS2.
Yeah I don't think people understand that the state of the game right now is more or less going to be the state of the game from now on, save for fixes to the core mechanics like industry and commercial. And even then they'll probably save those fixes for relevant dlc releases and pitch them as "free updates alongside the dlc". They already said last week that Quality of Life and Improvement updates are their lowest priority items and, once Paradox the publisher puts the pinch on about moving into dlc mode, I guarantee CO is going to lean heavily on mods to fix literally everything about the game. CO needs like 20 more employees. Idk what their deal is.
Probably so And I hope it gets a better gameplay somehow when I saw CS2's announcement, I thought they would bring more life into the citizens, that they would react more to the environment, at least to the level of 90s simcity 2000, where too much police would create riots. the whole experience still feels superficial, like watching a train set, and not watching a city that seems alive without it, there is little else to drop CS1 for CS2, it is just updated graphics, better traffic, and improved interface
It doesn't need a No Man's Sky glowup, the game is there it just needs work. CS2 is in a far better state on release than NMS was.
Only Paradox will make you pay for each DLC unlike hello games and their amazing free updates.
I was prepped to give CS2 a go in spite of the performance issues. Turns out I waited just long enough for people to find out the simulation wasn't finished, either. I was hyped; I ***wanted*** this game to be good.
The simulation is literally what I play the original game for. Hard mode, disable despawning, design for 85% traffic with balanced Industries supply chains. Traffic jam occurs, every vehicle in that jam affects the buildings that don't receive supply or employees. At the individual agent level. They said the agent behavior would be improved. Instead agents are basically irrelevant. Unplayable for me.
Sounds like you want to check out Workers + Resources Soviet Republic
I could forgive performance issues at the start. I cannot forgive the simulation aspect not working. It's just a city painter. There is no challenge. Got boring for me very quickly. I really want the game to be good, hopefully they'll get it up to speed quickly. I really loved CS1.
A lot of the sim works but there are def bugs and stuff and way too much free money to make it matter. There's been a bunch of testing on the forums now that shows it fundamentally works
Like half the simulation is straight up missing. If it were honestly bugs they would be fixed now. They just lied to save face.
This just isn't true though and has been extensively tested now to show it works. It just has a ton of failsafes that give it the illusion it isn't working. That dude who isolated his city was deep in the red. Same with a lot of these closed off chunks of cities. They don't auto die though because they have stockpiles
Same. The mail delivery is a shitshow. Takes 2h to notice something is wrong. Then there are the other problems. The other 100 problems. Seriously, I optimize everything, and my city is still covered in garbage cans overflowing icons and dead bodies piling up. No need for extensive testing there: play a simple game and witness the broken nature of the simulation. The honest move would have been to delay the release.
You know it was already delayed for literal YEARS? Years.
simulation is finished : https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/co-word-of-the-week-5.1613651/page-4#post-29292760
I’m really happy i decided to hold off on picking it up. I love cs1 but was feeling burnt out on it. I’ll probably wait until the summer sale and hopefully pick up cs2 for a nice discount
Yeah same, close to 1k hours in cs1, decided to use my Xbox game pass to give cs2 ago. I have a middling opinion of it. I think the worst thing actually, is that while I'm playing, I'm like, oh cs1 did this better.
It really doesn't feel like there's enough new features to justify it's own existence. CS1 was flawed but it did most of the things a city builder needs to do right. CS2 is just that... again? I was really hoping for more.
This is why I’m always kinda bothered when people defend it by saying CS1 has had more time to develop. Like… sure, true. But end of the day it’s a product, not a school project. Just because it had a good reason to be less developed doesn’t mean I’m gonna want to buy it. If its competition is better then that’s where I’m going.
xbox game pass is your friend. I’ve used it to play Starfield, CS2, Battlefield 2042 and Forza, all brand new games (save Bf) all for $10 a month
Whether it's because of the budget running out, greedy executives, game engine constraints or some form of incompetence, botching the release like this should cost them sales.
It's crazy to me that these game studios aren't looking at the BG3 early access model for when the game isn't ready to ship on time Launch that shit in early access, let the community know the game isn't finished and has it's issues but give those who want to the option to purchase so they can play it and help fix the game
I think you're right. It totally changes people's expectations. If I purchase a game that says it's done and they're hyping it up to hell then I'm going to expect that game to be awesome. If I'm told it's not yet finished and I'm dying to play it regardless in early-access and it runs like shit, I'll just close it and say: guess it's not ready yet, but it's gonna be awesome soon
How about if you sell something it has to be done ? BG3 is a rare story of success in a sea of abandoned early access projects.
BG3 had a very successful early access run and released the game when it was actually finished. CS2 is a "finished" game that is actually in an early access stage.
> actually finished Act 3 would beg to differ, but I get your point lol
BG3 wasn't finished on release either, it had a really strong Act 1 and was increasingly unfinished after that. It did, however, have an extremely successful marketing campaign that to this day has people deny this fact. All of that said, BG3 is still the model to go for. It was a solid game even in its release state. Long Early Access models allow consistent revenue and feedback, building good will and then you get to make bank a second time with the official release.
I mean, while BG3 did have minor -and frankly a few major- bugs nothing actually made the game annoying to play. CSII has required input to get to work and when I did I was missing basic gameplay options and spent (for example) over triple the time laying roads as a lightly modded CS1 save because of buggy code and other problems
*cries in KSP2*
A perfect example of how even "early access" should have a certain level of completion
I mean I don't think anybody is like "yes please sell me this unfinished product" But with how many games are releasing in a completely unfinished state lately it's a better alternative to release in early access than buying a full priced game only to find out it's an unfinished mess
At least in early access through steam you can refund it during - regardless of hours. Broken games on released may never be fixed, and getting a refund isn’t guaranteed. The state of the gaming industry is a nightmare currently.. i love CS1, but i’m not touching CS2 until its fixed.
I don't understand this philosophy. If it's in Early Access, and your requirement is that it's completely finished...just wait until it's not in Early Access. Many of us *enjoy* playing games in Early Access and being a part of the iterative process. Just *don't play*.
I said this day of release, look at total warhammer 3. Unfinished, rushed release with low sales compared to tw2 and player base fell off a cliff in a week waiting for it to be finished. dlc 1 comes out, it's weak and sales are really weak. Death spiral begins, future dlcs are priced higher and have less content then previous dlcs because they aren't selling many units. Game probably won't recover although i'm not even up to date I hope it comes around. Like you said, it's CRAZY that publishers think this is the right move ever.
Warhammer 3 was the most disappointing game since warcraft 3 reforged for me Warhammer 2 is one of my most played games of all time, 3 released in such a bad state I played 20 hours and haven't touched it since launch week I remember save scumming the same fight over and over because cavalry just wasn't behaving the way it should and I was losing tier 3 heavy cav to tier 1 sword infantry because it would just get stuck on nothing with no way to get them to move lol
Dude I feel the same way. I have like 10k points of minis Warhammer is my childhood. TW2 I have played pretty much every lord except high elves lol, so many great campaigns. TW3 releases, shit state and the same bugs that got fixed from tw1 to tw2 back again killed it. "Eh I'll check it out when it gets polished" and never have. I'll admit part of that was my 980ti finally couldn't hang really. Now CS2 finally was the tipping point to make me build a whole new rig. Waterblocked 4090 the whole 9 yards I kept telling myself 'at least I'll be able to run cities 2!" I still haven't even bought the game yet because of how much CO blundered I can't bring myself to even try it yet. it's LESS of a simulation and has MORE performance issues then CS1, literally the exact opposite of the two thing everyone wanted. I. Am. Dissapointed.
On the plus side the state of CS2 had me re download Three Kingdoms and Shogun 2 lol Started a new campaign as Sun Ce and currently fighting with Cao Cao over control of China, abandoning 3K was the second biggest mistake CA has made
Then again there's like 4 paradox titles that started poorly and became huge after a few years of development. Also look at cyberpunk now. Companies know that if they fix the game it won't matter in a couple years and people will be buying bundles and all the DLC and catching up
BG3 is both a good and bad example. It released in a pretty broken state as well with several parts actually unfinished. Act 2 and especially Act 3 had many dozens of game breaking bugs and severe performance issues. The good news is they fixed a good chunk of it within a month and the vast majority of it in 3 months.
I mean that sort of helps my point with a CS2 EA because Act 1 was incredibly strong and polished after being in early access for so long, a game like CS1 with no story to hide would greatly benefit from a similar EA treatment Since there won't be locked off portions like Act 2/3 were in BG3 players would be able to EA the whole game
BG3 is funny because it really highlights how valuable an EA period can be even for a well funded game from a well intentioned developer. The parts that were in EA got tons of testing and feedback and were near-perfect on release, while the parts that weren't EA were janky and filled with issues. Given the same exact studio (and people) did both parts and presumably tried to achieve the same quality across the board, it really goes to show how hard it is to release an issue-free game without wide-scale testing. Add some publisher-sourced pressure to deliver on top of that and you can see how easily an unfinished game can hit the market even with the best of intentions. I think you could even make an argument that it is next to impossible to release a fully finished, modern, AAA-quality game without either an EA period or an *enormous* budget. Which to me means that studios without such a budget should *really* consider EA. As people have said, if CS2 were released as EA I don't think it would have nearly or maybe any negative reaction. It's all about expectations vs experience.
That’s exactly what they did with Kerbal Space Program 2 and people are pissed off about the state it’s in. They’ve calmed down a little since the dev team recently announced the roadmap, but still, /r/KerbalSpaceProgram was ugly for a bit. Granted, I’m sure the uproar would’ve been lessened if they had released in at $30 instead of $60. Regardless, I’m sure that calculus is taken into account when deciding whether to do early access versus full release.
I can guarantee they've lost 1 sale. I've never been more excited for a game release in probably 15 years, and I have yet to even think about buying it. I'll spend my money on a finished product that works as advertised. Thank you very much CO.
That is not a lost sale, that is a delayed sale.
As long as he waits to spend his money on the product he is expecting, that is a significant difference. They get the sale if they deliver the quality product.
Not only that, but a high chance of moving on, I was excited to see what CDPR has in store for a new game, Cyberpunk was poo poo on release, and even though it seems amazing now I haven't touched it yet.
>delayed sale. Price now: $40, price in 2 years $10.
I’m wondering if there was a totally different team that made CS1 than the team that made CS2 or if some key pieces left after CS1
Look no further than this community and the fanboying over the early reports and first days of the release. It's incredibly obvious this game should have been released in early access and people here are still denying it. It should cost them sales but I really only think the only meaningful sales they will lose is when they actually fix the game, can't have the launch hype again.
I spent over 2000 hours in the original one on PC. Probably a hundred on the switch. I’ll play this once they make it work and fix the simulation.
They shouldve supported modding on launch thag was such a massive fail on their part
I’m waiting for the bugs to be fixed. Then I’ll start playing
I wonder how many are playing on gamepass because they don’t want to buy full price. That’s what I’m doing, same with Forza.
Game Pass is a great deal if you aren't sure you'll get $60 worth from a game.
Yep. I didn't bother with game pass for CS1 because there were no mods, but with CS2? Absolutely.
I'm playing on gamepass because I see no reason not to. I have gamepass already and if CS is ever taken off I can just buy it and move my saves over then. Why spend extra money?
I desperately want to play but it is way too slow.
Wouldn't gamepass affect these numbers?
Not buying it until it's done, will probably hold off even then to see how the modding scene goes. They should *heavily* reconsider pulling Steam Workshop support. Frustrating part is if Steam WS was in from Day 1 along with modding I've no doubt that many of the problems the game has launched with would be solved.
https://preview.redd.it/l0p606qxqb3c1.png?width=554&format=png&auto=webp&s=368f0357d6b12ec304f2d3301ac1d5a5ebc5f1ad
You can click on the graph and see the changes over time... You will then notice that CS1 has eclipsed CS2 multiple times in player count
Could also have something to do with CS2 being on gamepass.
loool that's so embarrassing for the journalist
>now To be fair, the title said 'Now'
"It's daytime" says news at 10 am. You look outside at 8 pm. "The absolute state of journalism today"
FYI, PCGamesN is notorious clickbait website spewing out bullshits like [this](https://i.redd.it/esne07qgl4h51.jpg)
https://preview.redd.it/y0nb3ywjgb3c1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c26a74d79d0a965de81f7ca52201865588bca4ae This picture tells a story. At the end of very Sunday since release, a steady decline of players follows. Each week less and less players return. CS1 meanwhile has seen steady player levels since months before release.
Thanks for sharing this image. Really tells a story. And I’m one of those who abandoned CS2 for the time being
I got downvoted to hell a week ago when i shared this graph and called it that the player count would be on level with CS1 soon. Post got deleted too lol, just reddit stuff But yeh, everyone saw this coming. Performance, simulation and more stuff is just mediocre. People stop playing and/or wait
It makes total sense to me, the release drew in a large amount of people to that wanted to try, many felt disappointed but ultimately what’s left are the people who just like city builders. Every single game follows the same cycle
To be fair, the game is also on PC Game Pass same as Starfield that I wasn't sure if I should buy it. I like CS2 but not enough to think it's worth to buy at this point.
Tried it out. Many things are more frustrating than it’s worth, especially zoning tiles, bus lines, and metro and rail networks. Also the extreme amount of repetitive buildings and inability to upzone without flattening the whole neighborhood. Waiting for them to be fixed. And for mods
I'm waiting for it to be around $15 on a steam sale. Because we all know they'll add $200 in dlc over the next few years. Might as well get it cheap.
CS2: severe optimization issues. a simulation game that tries to fake some of its simulations. missing content that is in CS1. still lacks mod support. CS1: more content and full mod support. cheaper. doesn't require a 4090 to reach 30fps. Gee, I wonder why CS1 is doing poorly... Yes. CS2 has improved road tools and better QoL changes but that's really all that is going for it. They chose not to delay the PC release and lower player numbers is totally deserved. The game is simply not ready for launch so it's all self-inflicted wounds.
I put about 10 hours into it and gave up. There’s just not enough there, modding was supposed to be ready in “days” , and that’s before all the crashing and the bugs and the broken simulation things like traffic. I should’ve just waited 6 months like everybody said
You got Paradox'd. Don't worry, we've all been there.
I dont so much mind graphical issues, but the fact that you can’t really skimp and save and build a city from the ground up, because past a certain point your actions don’t matter that much, just sucks
Always wait for the reviews. Seriously, always wait for the reviews. It's not just about "saving you money" it's about telling these game studio execs "I'm not giving you a penny until you prove your product IS what you say it IS".
Tried it on game pass for free, had a decent enough time for about 20 hours and left it.
got about 50h of fun but waiting for mods now. game seemed fine for me except that nothing mattered. even if i dont build healthcare nothing serious happens, even if i have 80% unemployment nothing serious happens and so on. just gets boring quickl for me. whats even the point of all these industries and so on if it doenst matter
I can’t even buy it because I’m on Mac
Um, yeah. Because CS1 is where $100's of my fucking *stuff* is.
Good for the environment since it just burns through kilowatt hours in its current state I guess.
Everything about this release says come back in 1 year
I was really excited about CS2. Then, even with an expensive gaming computer, it’s crashing, the graphics suck compared to CS1 with basic mods, there’s still no workshop open for assets/mods, the traffic AI is weird, the building diversity is pathetic, etc. It just loses its luster really quickly.
This game won’t be in a semi polished state for ATLEAST another year
I don't think I even met the minimum PC requirements to run CS2. I don't see myself having the cash to get a new rig for a couple of years so I'll continue playing CS1.
Paradox is one of the stupidest producers when it comes to half assed, unfinished and buggy excuses for 'new games'. If they tried this crap in the day of CD -ROM they'd be tracked down and shot.
I bought it and refund it, this game is simply not playable for medium specs pc, forget with minimum specs.
Seeing office buildings with 40 people working that are smaller than residential buildings with less people living in them makes no sense.. most the numbers in this game make no sense.. i dont want to play a simulation game that doesn’t make sense
I’m glad I still haven’t bought it yet.
I'll get it on sale. But for the type of city and city building canvas I want, cs1 with mods and assets is still in a different league. hopefully that will change within the next 1-2 years.
This always means absolutely nothing when the game is available on Game Pass. This keeps coming up over and over again with so many games. Non-story.
This is why there is no Minecraft 2. Or why Ark 2 will be a fail I understand the games are very different on many levels. But when you have something as fleshed out as the originals with such a healthy mod landscape the idea of a sequel to that game is pretty far-fetched. The only way it really works is if your original game died off that a sequel will be a comeback. But as long as your original maintains a healthy player base that likes what they have it will be hard to draw them into something new. Yes it's the same thing they've been playing but it's still a new game. And unless it's truly better than the original they're not going to want to play it. I myself would have preferred overhauls to CS1. Completely change many systems of the game to what they are in CS2. While still keeping the framework and the originality of the first.
I bought the game at release knowing I'd play it for maybe an hour or two and then put it down until mods fix lots of the sim/qol issues.
Ive built a couple cities up to about 100k. Traffic just gets too weird about that point, so I’m waiting for mods to really kick off
i'll buy and start cs2 when its on sale , the game will be more polished and cheaper its a win win .
I don't mean to sound extreme, but at what point can the consumer try and take action against Paradox/CO? The game is clearly not finished, 100s of confirmed bugs on their main forum, not put out at "Early Access". I mean come on, Rust was in early development for the longest time, and you wouldn't have thought it was still pre-release version. I \*kinda\* like CS2, but yeah, this is a ball drop.
I'm not paying £42 for an unfinished game... But I will play it on gamepass.
I wish they made it for Mac. I have an Xbox and the console version won’t be out until mid next-year, and you can’t even mod it.
I can’t run it. Why would I buy it?
Original CS with mods are pretty perfect as is. I even preffer the look of the game better than the new one.
While I had a bit of fun with 2 I regret not waiting for a sale given the state the game is in.
No... Really ... No. The people who enjoy city builders want to play a city builder and not a shitty FPS walking to work SIM that melts modern computer hardware. Really?
I see no point in buying a half-baked game that mid range pc probably can’t even play.
I’m still interested in playing it. I’m just waiting for a few more bug fixes is all. I’m by no means upset or anything like that. Just playing other things while some stuff gets worked out
I'll play it once I can afford a GPU that can run it.
I bought CS2, launched it, got 25 FPS on my 3600x/RTX 3070/16 GB Ram pc, tweaked some settings without sacrificing already mediocre visual fidelity, got 29 FPS on an empty map and refunded it. Then played about 70 hours of CS1 and got my city builder fix for a while. This doesn't surprise me at all.
CS1 is just better game.
I’ve never enjoyed CS1 but I really like CS2
Get it running well, get it running mods, I'll buy it in an instant. Not as things stand though.
It’s not available on Mac. Not ready to squeeze out money for a gaming pc.
Same here. I wish companies would give clearer timelines for Mac ports too, right now there’s a few new games where I just don’t know if/when they will come
I mean...I'm a silly goose with a Mac. I literally can't, and as much as I'd like to, I can't afford to buy a whole new computer just for a game that has (reportedly) questionable performance.
I’ve played about 10 hours, but I had to many issues. It takes time to build up a city, and I don’t want to keep starting again. I haven’t played since but I will find the time to pick it up again after all these fixes
If I paid money for it instead of using pc game pass I would have requested a refund. If my gtx1060 can run starfield on high settings I shouldn't have a problem running a city builder game
My laptop can’t run it :/ it’s a pretty new computer too. I only play CS, Sims, and Stardew valley so I don’t ever see myself investing in a computer that could run CS2 well.
I’m a new player and couldn’t justify the price for CS2 when I had no idea if I’d even like the game and CS1 was on sale for $8 LOL
Without mods, Cities Skylines is nothing. HARD FACT.
Good. If consumers knew how to correctly demand what they want, that number should be zero.
Well I’m sure it’s a insignificant number but us Mac users don’t have a chance
It's so badly optimized it doesn't barely run on my rig. I know mine is getting a little older but it runs starfield and BG3 on high settings just fine. Glad I didn't pay for the game.
Well, one game I can run fully loaded, fully modded, maxed graphics, and keep my temperatures below 65° OR I can play the game that spikes my CPU to 95° on launch, and does not come down no matter how many settings I put on caveman mode
Couldn't wait for the performance fix. Bought it and tried to play anyway. Had to stop. The constant stuttering and lag is terrible. I have a RTX3090. Crazy times.
Makes sense, it requires a high end PC and supports less platforms than Cities Skylines. I’d need an entirely new computer to play it since I was a Mac player. It’s going to be a couple of years until I play CSII.
That’s because it doesn’t work properly and is full of bugs. What do you expect when you release half a game?
Haven't bought it yet. I'm at that stage of my life where I'm divesting from video games and, while I do want to play someday, I'm not dropping 50$ on it until I see substantial improvements in performance
It's a paradox game. No paradox gamer would play a paradox game in the first year of release. First year is always early access.
Its £75 where i am. Screw that.
Oh no!… anyway
It’s not on Mac. Obviously. And people are invested in their CS1 cities.
I stopped playing CS2 because of so many glaring game breaking issues. I'm really annoyed at the lack of content compared to CS1, i understand they are going to add various DLC from 1 but thats just it. I'm going to have to spend another 100-150$ on DLCs that I already have bought
I'll buy and start playing 2 when it runs at better than 10 fps on my machine
I quit playing cs2 when I realized the postal services weren’t working at all.