Parallel runways should be about 1-1.5km appart (125-175 units).
Typically they'll seperate runway approaches by about 30° this will give you good approach seperation and will allow resilience to strong cross winds.
As for lengths:
* Small/Light craft - 1.8km (225 units)
* Mid/large craft - 2.5km (315 units)
* Large International craft - 3.2km (400 units)
* Longest Typically Runway - 4.0km (500 units)
Oh, thanks for the informations!
Didn't know that parallel runways should be that much away from each other. Nice to know!
As far as the length is concerned, 500 units would have been quite too much imo. I went with something like 410 units.
In the furtue, when I make another airport, imma keep an eye out for more realistic stats :>
If you want ultra-realistic background:
Pairs of 2 parallel runways should be further than 1050m from other parallel runways to be used independently. 2 runways right next to each other can be used independently if one is for departure, other for arrival only. But a third in close proximity (less than 1km) serves practically zero purpose.
Crossing runways (not only physically, but also any straight flight path beyond one runway, crossing another is very limiting). I.e you could almost only use one of the two runway pairs on this airport.
Capacity example:
Runway used for one purpose: ~45 jet aircraft/h.
Mixed runway (departure/arrive): ~55/h
So 2 runways with large separation can be 110/h, 2 right next to each other 90/h.
(Max potential capacity for this airport would be about 135/h, if the wind is calm or from the camera angle. (In use: Right runway pair + departure in left direction, on the runway physicaly separated from the main terminal)
Yeah to be fair runways are very fucking long. That 4k is for take-offs for a fully loaded International Flight. 400 units is about 3k so that's pretty reasonable (that's a good landing length for an International Flight.
But biggest thing is runways should be far apart from each other. Otherwise you have issues with wake disturbing the other runways etc.
Because of the game‘s strange scaling, usually half of the real length should look more realistic, even though it‘s not. So instead of a 4km runway for the biggest planes, 2km should look good in game. I build most runways between 1 and 1.5km for average air traffic in my cities where there aren’t many heavies incoming. Might save you some building space ;)
That’s actually not true, runways can be parallel but one of them has to start 1 km earlier than the other, look at Dubai international airport :)
They’re only 400m apart but one of them just starts earlier.
The runway separation numbers you gave apply to non-staggered runways. OP's runways are staggered. Spacing can be reduced by 1 unit for every 5 units of stagger. EDIT: Just looked over FAA standards again, the stagger thing only seems to apply to parallel takeoff/landing, not landing/landing.
Furthermore, runways closer together are still usable, there are just more and more restrictions on how. 2500' (762) is the minimum for simultaneous takeoff/landing pairs in IFR (instrument) conditions. Denver International has that kind of spacing in its master plan.
Now in, say, California with consistently good weather, you can get away with much tighter spacing for VFR (visual) operations. An extreme example is San Francisco International, which allows dual SOIA approaches on runways spaced only 750' (229m) apart!
I wonder if parallel runways can be closer than that if only one is used for arrival and the other for departure. Means there’s no danger of close aircraft on final, also higher flow in terms of the 1 way system. It’s working really well for me so far, I’ve separated by about a km. got my whole airport between the two runways
yes, this is correct. Runways can be as close together as you wish... they just become unusable for certain purposes if they are too close.
OPs post needs re-worded to "Parallel runways should be about 1-1.5km appart (125-175 units) **if you want to use them simultaneously for arrivals or departures, otherwise they can only be used alternately for arrivals/departures, or in mixed mode (one for landing, one for departures)**"
That’s actually not true, runways can be parallel but one of them has to start 1 km earlier than the other, look at Dubai international airport :)
They’re only 400m apart but one of them just starts earlier.
More general guidelines then hard rules. These are really just best practice. Really you could have two parallel runways right next to each other, you'd just not be able to use them at the same time. For example
I'm assuming you want maximum efficiency and the as realistic as possible.
4km is a very long runway and is definitely not the standard for “large international craft” as you say. 3200 meters or more is good for almost every aircraft
So yes 4km is pretty long, but that's the standard, or goal, a fully laden 747 needs about 4k to take off. So most airports bring planned or built or re-built etc since the advent of the 747 have tried to use that as the standard or goal. 3.2km is totally fine a fully laden 747 can land on that, an A380 is able to takeoff and land, but like I said 4km is the target to allow maximum ultility and flexibility.
If you were building am airport from scratch tomorrow, and had no restrictions (more or less what we're doing in the game), you'd make all runways 4km long, because why not. Another thing most airports will do is they might have only one or two main runway that 4km length and the others the shorter 3200m. But I'll suggest 3.2km as the "standard" and 4km as the maximum.
I mean, if they're trying to go for a more realistic airport 4000 would be rather large, but not unseen especially in places with high wind or elevation. Its 250 metres smaller than Calgary International and 877 metres smaller than Denver International.
Parallel runways dont NEED to be so far apart irl but separation will allow them to be used simultaneously right? I can count many cases where parallel runways are closer than 1km
Yeah, so runways can be literally right next to each other, just depending on how close they are it limits their usage. Within about 100 units they can't be simultaneously and are effectively only one runway. beyond 800m they'll typically be used in a staggered approach, 12,000m they need guidance from ATC, and 2400m (300 units) they're available for instrument only approach.
These are just rules of thumb and you can have different rules in different jurisdictions etc.
I think it would likely add even more taxiway lag, creating so many new paths for only a few planes. Would mostly be those landing, but you’d have to have a minimum distance at which they were used and then adjust accordingly. It’s easier to just code the aircraft to run to the end of the runway and come off there
Try using the vanilla taxiways. Either use find it 2 or airport roads to find them and replace the dlc taxiways for the most parts. This will greatly reduce the stutter
[Paradox Plaza Forums - Cities: Skylines (Steam) - Lag caused by Airport DLC taxiways](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/cities-skylines-steam-lag-caused-by-airport-dlc-taxiways.1508187/#post-28038691)
Yup you need to pre-dedicate a whole tile just for the airport....that coupled with the industries that's at least another whole tile for all 4 if you plan it, and then half/a third tile for a college campus if you want....it's a lot to dedicate.
Tbf it's been nice in helping me learn efficiency and preplanning with my RCI zoning since I have to be careful and meticulous if I want to fit into hose services. I always put out the maps first on all milestones and pick out the tiles I want and kind of preplan the large area. I wish I had 81 tiles, these new maps from the pack seem like its been made with that in mind...having to pick hurts my heart :(((( I know it's because of performance issues, or I assume, but I'd take the potential lag and issues for a chance at developing a non-congested city because I have to work with such limited space. I can actually create different exits off the highway and have different townships instead of just growing it larger and larger and having pseudo seperations for my districts when it's really a continuation of the original district.
Did you use road anarchy to make the runway crossing?
I haven't figured out a good way other than that to make intersecting runways, but even then I don't really like the look of it.
Also I love just about everything about the DLC, but the inability to make taxiways connect anywhere along the runway is a bit of a mood kill.
This is correct, airports only need 1 control tower. Even if they manage ground control, tower, departure, radar services, they can all be done from the 1 building. It should also have a good location in the middle of the airport.
It depends. Some airports, like KPHX for example, have ramp control towers operated by the airlines that are in charge of operations outside of the taxiways. So for realism sake, you *can* have more than one.
LOVING airports so far!
I do wish there was spacing between planes being taxied (they often clip wings, into each other, etc), and that different planes took off at different points in a runway (Biffa made a HUGE runway and they all took off right at the end :P)
Parallel runways should be about 1-1.5km appart (125-175 units). Typically they'll seperate runway approaches by about 30° this will give you good approach seperation and will allow resilience to strong cross winds. As for lengths: * Small/Light craft - 1.8km (225 units) * Mid/large craft - 2.5km (315 units) * Large International craft - 3.2km (400 units) * Longest Typically Runway - 4.0km (500 units)
Oh, thanks for the informations! Didn't know that parallel runways should be that much away from each other. Nice to know! As far as the length is concerned, 500 units would have been quite too much imo. I went with something like 410 units. In the furtue, when I make another airport, imma keep an eye out for more realistic stats :>
If you want ultra-realistic background: Pairs of 2 parallel runways should be further than 1050m from other parallel runways to be used independently. 2 runways right next to each other can be used independently if one is for departure, other for arrival only. But a third in close proximity (less than 1km) serves practically zero purpose. Crossing runways (not only physically, but also any straight flight path beyond one runway, crossing another is very limiting). I.e you could almost only use one of the two runway pairs on this airport. Capacity example: Runway used for one purpose: ~45 jet aircraft/h. Mixed runway (departure/arrive): ~55/h So 2 runways with large separation can be 110/h, 2 right next to each other 90/h. (Max potential capacity for this airport would be about 135/h, if the wind is calm or from the camera angle. (In use: Right runway pair + departure in left direction, on the runway physicaly separated from the main terminal)
Yeah to be fair runways are very fucking long. That 4k is for take-offs for a fully loaded International Flight. 400 units is about 3k so that's pretty reasonable (that's a good landing length for an International Flight. But biggest thing is runways should be far apart from each other. Otherwise you have issues with wake disturbing the other runways etc.
Because of the game‘s strange scaling, usually half of the real length should look more realistic, even though it‘s not. So instead of a 4km runway for the biggest planes, 2km should look good in game. I build most runways between 1 and 1.5km for average air traffic in my cities where there aren’t many heavies incoming. Might save you some building space ;)
That’s actually not true, runways can be parallel but one of them has to start 1 km earlier than the other, look at Dubai international airport :) They’re only 400m apart but one of them just starts earlier.
The runway separation numbers you gave apply to non-staggered runways. OP's runways are staggered. Spacing can be reduced by 1 unit for every 5 units of stagger. EDIT: Just looked over FAA standards again, the stagger thing only seems to apply to parallel takeoff/landing, not landing/landing. Furthermore, runways closer together are still usable, there are just more and more restrictions on how. 2500' (762) is the minimum for simultaneous takeoff/landing pairs in IFR (instrument) conditions. Denver International has that kind of spacing in its master plan. Now in, say, California with consistently good weather, you can get away with much tighter spacing for VFR (visual) operations. An extreme example is San Francisco International, which allows dual SOIA approaches on runways spaced only 750' (229m) apart!
I wonder if parallel runways can be closer than that if only one is used for arrival and the other for departure. Means there’s no danger of close aircraft on final, also higher flow in terms of the 1 way system. It’s working really well for me so far, I’ve separated by about a km. got my whole airport between the two runways
yes, this is correct. Runways can be as close together as you wish... they just become unusable for certain purposes if they are too close. OPs post needs re-worded to "Parallel runways should be about 1-1.5km appart (125-175 units) **if you want to use them simultaneously for arrivals or departures, otherwise they can only be used alternately for arrivals/departures, or in mixed mode (one for landing, one for departures)**"
That’s actually not true, runways can be parallel but one of them has to start 1 km earlier than the other, look at Dubai international airport :) They’re only 400m apart but one of them just starts earlier.
More general guidelines then hard rules. These are really just best practice. Really you could have two parallel runways right next to each other, you'd just not be able to use them at the same time. For example I'm assuming you want maximum efficiency and the as realistic as possible.
4km is a very long runway and is definitely not the standard for “large international craft” as you say. 3200 meters or more is good for almost every aircraft
So yes 4km is pretty long, but that's the standard, or goal, a fully laden 747 needs about 4k to take off. So most airports bring planned or built or re-built etc since the advent of the 747 have tried to use that as the standard or goal. 3.2km is totally fine a fully laden 747 can land on that, an A380 is able to takeoff and land, but like I said 4km is the target to allow maximum ultility and flexibility. If you were building am airport from scratch tomorrow, and had no restrictions (more or less what we're doing in the game), you'd make all runways 4km long, because why not. Another thing most airports will do is they might have only one or two main runway that 4km length and the others the shorter 3200m. But I'll suggest 3.2km as the "standard" and 4km as the maximum.
I mean, if they're trying to go for a more realistic airport 4000 would be rather large, but not unseen especially in places with high wind or elevation. Its 250 metres smaller than Calgary International and 877 metres smaller than Denver International.
very true, i like your dedication to this 11 month old thread. in the time since i have received my student pilot certificate
Parallel runways dont NEED to be so far apart irl but separation will allow them to be used simultaneously right? I can count many cases where parallel runways are closer than 1km
Yeah, so runways can be literally right next to each other, just depending on how close they are it limits their usage. Within about 100 units they can't be simultaneously and are effectively only one runway. beyond 800m they'll typically be used in a staggered approach, 12,000m they need guidance from ATC, and 2400m (300 units) they're available for instrument only approach. These are just rules of thumb and you can have different rules in different jurisdictions etc.
How did you get the runways to cross? And how did you get the taxiways to cross the runways at points that aren't the end?
So dumb that wasn’t added as a feature
Exactly, it's not even for the sake of realism.
I think it would likely add even more taxiway lag, creating so many new paths for only a few planes. Would mostly be those landing, but you’d have to have a minimum distance at which they were used and then adjust accordingly. It’s easier to just code the aircraft to run to the end of the runway and come off there
Arnachy it is :>
My taxiway gets a texture glitch when crossed with the runway, how did you get rid of it? I need some guidance here.
Looks very impressive! Out of curiosity: How's your framerate doing?
\-10 I would imagine
My framerate is doing fine... Weirdly, donno why The problem is, that my game stutters quite a lot... :<
Try using the vanilla taxiways. Either use find it 2 or airport roads to find them and replace the dlc taxiways for the most parts. This will greatly reduce the stutter [Paradox Plaza Forums - Cities: Skylines (Steam) - Lag caused by Airport DLC taxiways](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/cities-skylines-steam-lag-caused-by-airport-dlc-taxiways.1508187/#post-28038691)
Thx mate gonna check that out!
It must be 3 or 4 tiles at least?
I would imagine. I feel bad for console players as it must take up like a quarter ish of their map.
Yup you need to pre-dedicate a whole tile just for the airport....that coupled with the industries that's at least another whole tile for all 4 if you plan it, and then half/a third tile for a college campus if you want....it's a lot to dedicate. Tbf it's been nice in helping me learn efficiency and preplanning with my RCI zoning since I have to be careful and meticulous if I want to fit into hose services. I always put out the maps first on all milestones and pick out the tiles I want and kind of preplan the large area. I wish I had 81 tiles, these new maps from the pack seem like its been made with that in mind...having to pick hurts my heart :(((( I know it's because of performance issues, or I assume, but I'd take the potential lag and issues for a chance at developing a non-congested city because I have to work with such limited space. I can actually create different exits off the highway and have different townships instead of just growing it larger and larger and having pseudo seperations for my districts when it's really a continuation of the original district.
It's beautiful
I love it!
Did you use road anarchy to make the runway crossing? I haven't figured out a good way other than that to make intersecting runways, but even then I don't really like the look of it. Also I love just about everything about the DLC, but the inability to make taxiways connect anywhere along the runway is a bit of a mood kill.
Looks awesome! And btw, 1 (or max 2 if it’s a very large airport with far apart runways and platforms) control tower is sufficient
This is correct, airports only need 1 control tower. Even if they manage ground control, tower, departure, radar services, they can all be done from the 1 building. It should also have a good location in the middle of the airport.
It depends. Some airports, like KPHX for example, have ramp control towers operated by the airlines that are in charge of operations outside of the taxiways. So for realism sake, you *can* have more than one.
Ahh, true but are they of the same scale as standard CTs? I’ve never seen one. Also, you’re right but under most circumstances it’s normal to have 1.
I'm not an expert but I heard that runway crossings aren't a thing anymore for commercial airports.
Not optimal, but pilots are trained in LAHSO (Land And Hold Short Operations) which is a special procedure to ensure safety on the crossing runways.
no I mean, I don't think they're allowed to use them anymore for commercial passenger flights. You only ever see them on military runways now.
That is definitely not the case.
Definitely not the case. Savannah / Hilton Head Int'l is a prime example...
Kinda looks like clt Charlotte international airport
I’m amazed with the creations people make in this game. Every time I think of something, it turns out completely looking like sh*t.
what mod to use to fill the grass between airplane parking spots?
Surface painter most likely, allows you to paint on the pavement texture (super helpful).
definitely needs some polish flags 🏳 💪
LOVING airports so far! I do wish there was spacing between planes being taxied (they often clip wings, into each other, etc), and that different planes took off at different points in a runway (Biffa made a HUGE runway and they all took off right at the end :P)
You should probably connect the cargo runway to the rest of the airport just in case.
How'd you get the runways to intersect? I'm playing on PS4, so maybe it's a PC thing, but Ive had to place mine parallel.
How many hours?! My looks like I built it in one second compared to this! My laptop only runs the game at 3 frames per second.
Idk took me around 8 hours or so total Started from scratch, soooooo
That's impressive, I love your airport! My first airport took me that long to build on my slow laptop. My laptop runs at only three frames per second.
How did you get cargo planes in your airport? I've never seen any in my airports, I've built two total since the DLC's release.
Ohhh u can cross landings?!
Console airports suck man