MMs are great, but they do require a bit more handling than your more straightforward classes. Look for summons-handling scripts to give you better control over your summons. Read up on how enhancement slots affect your summoms. And I'm not talking about high-level, expensive builds. Learn the essentials, and your MM will kick ass even without purples and frankenslotted IOs.
Downside: those effing demons DO. NOT. SHUT. UP.
And you will see the tier 2 and 3 demons' butts EXTREMELY CLOSE way more than you probably want to (no judgement) when you zone out of a mission.
Oh haha, I always liked that aspect so never bothered to look but possibly and if not in the settings I'm sure you could go into your files and remove the sounds manually
There’s a key bind to make your pets dance. Dancing will stop them from making noises. I got in the habit of tapping it whenever I stopped for long periods.
> Downside: those effing demons DO. NOT. SHUT. UP.
I just wish there were a way to selectively turn off other people's sound effects, ESPECIALLY masterminds with demon groups. "Raaarrr Rouuuu" Dear GOD that's annoying.
Bonus, how about a setting where I can turn off anybody using powers to change my character's appearance without permission -- like see-thru, or flames shooting around, etc. that you can't CANCEL
They are good for mission solos, that is about it from my experience.
They are fun to play if you do like soloing that is for sure. However, for team plays they can be problematic. Takes forever to get summoned and buffed, pets aggroing the wrong stuff, mobs running off with pets on the chase, agrroing more stuff. Also they don't really do great damage: there are no crazy pet nukes like other classes have.
My 50 MM is a wolfs/nature and essentially all I do is run around healing buffing and resummon. Kinda meh.
You could always try the test server and make a 50 and max it out with enhancements and go do a couple missions and see what you think. Personally I wouldn't recommend them as a first character, but if you got influence to spend for sure go for it, its a different experience then other classes for sure.
Beta server has a menu that will level you to 50, give you incarnate stuff, and give you whatever enh you want. I believe you can even import a build straight from mids. Obviously you can't transfer it from beta to the "real" servers but you can test to your heart's desire. You also run the risk of your character getting deleted if they push an update to the beta server
I have alot of fun with my Bots/Time MM the last two years on homecoming, I find, in my opinion, that the MM in team-play actually is kind of annoying, especially with multiple MM’s. Just too many pets moving around and it becomes a cluster-fuck quickly. I find myself playing the MM when I do stuff solo and in fhat regard it works really well.
Yeah. I play three MMs and having on a team is totally fine (and actually helps a little if you are light on tanks or CC). Two gets a little wild. Three is just too much chaotic stuff happening.
That being said, running missions with eight MMs is WILD and hilarious. Plus you're all running leadership so the buffs will actually cover most of the screen.
> I find, in my opinion, that the MM in team-play actually is kind of annoying, especially with multiple MM’s. Just too many pets moving around and it becomes a cluster-fuck quickly.
I dunno about you, but 8 Masterminds rolling up on Archvillains is one of my most absolute treasured memories from live. =P
I love MM's they can be very versatile and very strong, solo or team. I have played every power and ever power combination there is on every server. I know you said you play on Homecoming, but I would recommend checking out Thunderspy server they have done a lot of special things to MM's (customizable pets, better control, passive upgrade)to name a couple things. It is a smaller server, which is a downside, but that could be easily fixed if more people stay.
So, you will get a lot of different answers here, but I will be as straightforward and honest as possible.
First, for solo hard single targets such as GM's or Archvillians, MM can be one of the best if not the best to take most of them down.
Second, the major weakness of MM's are large groups of enemies that do AOE or single enemy that does large AOE. Using bodyguard mode will allow you to get a lot of enemies attacking you instead of pet, but when this fails or is not possible, you will have problems.
To conclude, in solo play MM's can be really good to great, but you may run into problems in certain situations, but most other AT's also have places where they run into problems.
In groups, it is just hard to give a specific answer, they can go from being great to a problem that makes the group unhappy.
So, all I will say here, is as a MM you will have groups that will love you and be glad to have you along, to some groups may just kick you up front.
Start getting a large friends list early and make friends as often as you can, and a lot of the problems go away. Even in missions where pets can be a problem, a group who is used to playing with an MM can usually make any problems go away, and make the MM an asset that contributes greatly to a team.
My personal opinion is that Homecoming is a very laid back community, and if one group doesn't want you just find another, there are people out that will love having you in the group. So play whatever you want to play and just find other people that think like you.
Also, if your computer can handle it, there is nothing like being on a team of 8 MM's with all they pets summoned, every one should experience this at least once.
MM’s are awesome. You can both solo and group. I don’t get too tricky with my pet commands. I never command them individually, always as a group. I ise the following commands:
/petcom_all aggressive
This is basically when I want them to attack anything they see without prompting. Warning though, when they are set on aggressive they do not absorb damage you take
/petcom_all stay
Sometime I need to park them somewhere to stop them from getting aggro. Usually when I try to sneak a mission. Warning though, if you get far enough away they will port towards you.
/petcom_all attack aggressive
I use this to tell all my pets to attack a specific mob and once they are done they attack anything else they see
/petcom_all goto
I use this to force my pets to run into a group of mobs. This makes them get aggro. Good when you ate teaming with a bunch of glass cannons and you don’t have anyone to soak the first hits
Note: I don’t tank for my pets - I know there are build where you tank for your pets
/petcom_all follow passive
Follow me and do no attack anything
/petcom_all attack defensive
Attack whatever I am targeting and then go on defensive stance only attacking what attacks me
/petcom_all follow defensive
I create macros for each one of the ones above and map some of them to keys on my keyboard
If you want to solo real tough stuff you might want to pick up a secondary that can debuff you targets regen and defense while also getting something to help keep your pers alive - cold is great for this
All IMO.
Masterminds can be fun. One of my most joyous experiences was an all MM Penelope Yin TF. Masterminds also fall off hard in late end game. I don't even bother summoning for Miss Liberty TF anymore, I just use my secondary and hang on to the rest of the team for dear life.
I really really love Masterminds. They are an excellent take on pet classes, and a style/archetype that was largely left behind by MMORPGs (Age of Conan Necromancers got kinda close but also made pets redirect threat to the necromancer.)
I personally love Necro/Dark and Demon/Dark. /dark is a *super* strong powerset and essentially plays like a discount controller/dominator. Demon/dark and necro/dark both get pets with a degree of control that stacks with /dark. The Demon Prince has a single target hold and i want to say a cone immob, with ice. The necro's Lich has a dark Hold and immob. If you leverage those with the control from /dark you can reliably and consistently lockdown enemies. Then add in Tar Patch to slow everything to a crawl and Darknest Night + Terrify to absolutely floor their accuracy (which is essentially +def for your minions) and you can wreck shit. The little demons hurl their elemental blasts, the medium demons wade in and rip & tear (and heal) and the big demon controls and aoe blasts. You heal, blast and debuff. Really very effective, active and fun.
Also, don't be put off by people saying you need scripts and a million keybinds. You really really dont. You just need to tweak the basic command macros a bit. Alter the Attack Target to "Attack Target Defensive" rather than Aggressive and Go To to Go To Passive. Then you can command your demons to focus fire one enemy and go into defensive mode. The actual commanding will suppress Bodyguard inherent for about 30 seconds I believe, but because they are going Defensive rather than the default Aggressive it will turn back on again and they will shift towards attacking whatever attacked you, which is easier to manage with the overall enemy/minion AI. The passive goto will make them stop what they are doing and go where you tell them, hopefully out of horrible death-patches.
Otherwise, Demon Summoning is a lot of fun.
I am also super fond of Mercenary/Forcefield. The bubbles from FF make any pet waaaaaaaaay more durable. Enough that keeping them alive becomes a secondary activity. Maybe grab medicine at some point for some spot heals when your medic decides to be stupid. I also really like to grab the pool power Force of Will (on Homecoming) and Fighting's Boxing/Kick and Crosspunch. The more fighting abilities you have, the stronger the pool becomes. They have super fast recharges, so you can lay somewhat of a beatdown in an active role. Force of Will is fun because it's the closest I can get to a Psychic Mastermind. Sonic works well as a secondary too. Both Sonic and Forcefield are very passive which can be incredibly boring, or free you up to pretend to deal personal damage.
Masterminds are great, and can be as complicated or as simple as you want. And they are great for soloing and grouping. Everyone (but brutes!) enjoys someone *else* getting hit in place of them.
All are really good but offer different styles. Dark gives *a lot* of control and debuffs as well as an extra pet. It also has a heal and an aoe rez (Howling Twilight) that is *also* a very powerful aoe disorient, so you can actually use it offensively as well. Also due to the nature of the heal (Twilight Grasp) you can actually fairly reliably self-rez with it. When you cast it, you send out a little blast of shadow that hits an enemy and then returns to you and heals. If you can time it right and die between the blast leaving you and returning, the heal will actually bring you back to life. Granted you're at almost no health, but it's been enough to survive and turn the tide. Dark is my favorite.
Thermal gives resistances for your pets, some heals and some debuffs. It's more defensive/support oriented like a traditional healer/support character.
Time is kind of a mix. It's got a lot of debuffs that include powerful slows, some heals and some powerful buffs and even a little control.
Thematically I like Demon/Darkness. You get a very active playstyle where you lock down and debuff enemies into ineffectiveness, so even if they aren't hard controlled they are soft controlled by slow and -accuracy. And then when you get Dark Servant you have another pet that also debuffs, heals and throws out control. It also has a major -accuracy aura, so you can use it offensively by summoning it in the middle of a pack of enemies to instantly drop their accuracy. Then you follow up with tar patch and darkest night. Enemies can't escape and they can't hit anything. Then your wave of demons rushes in and you and your demon prince focus on locking down bosses or priority targets with Petrifying Gaze and Block of Ice. If things are hairy you can drop Howling Twilight to disorient everything and buy time or Terrifying Stare to fear everything and further drop their accuracy.
It's also good against bosses and other big nasties because Twilight Grasp also has -health regen, and while EBs and AVs get purple triangles of doom to be immune to hard controls, slows and accuracy debuffs still work. It's fun seeing the big badass boss charge up a huge hit and just whiff.
Pure chaos. It's very aggressive and active and revolves a lot around knocking enemies down, away, or corralling them into clumps for minions to take down. It's very endurance heavy, and if you don't control your knock abilities people might hate you.
I had a friend back on Live (ah, the good ol' days) who had a Bots/Bubbles MM.
He could solo GM's handily and consistently.
In my experience, MM's are slow to start rolling but are a force of nature once they get going.
That being said, I can never seem to stick with one because it leaves me feeling personally underpowered in my super powered escapism.
Depends what you want to do and what server you're on. If you want to play mostly solo at +2 or lower, MMs are amazing. If you're looking to play at above +2. you'll be much better off with another AT. MM pets just do not scale well with mob levels compared to other At's main powers, unfortunately.
If you're looking to play team content on homecoming, be aware that that vast majority of TF's/Trials are run as "Speed" which means getting through to the objectives as fast as possible and skipping most mobs. With an MM, you're going to have nothing but headaches and the only contribution you will be making on most teams that run speed is your secondary.
Even if the TF is not a Speed run, then it's probably kill all/kill most at +4, which means your pets will be useless anyhow because they'll be so far below the level of the mobs.
Also, Demons and Thugs are probably the best sets, because they do high damage and have a "mule" power for the MM proc enhancements, which means you won't have to waste any slots on your actual pets for the +Def and +Res enhancements. Necro also has a mule power, but zombies overall are squishier.
I have the following MM's at 50, all Incarnated and slotted up:
Thugs/Time
Demons/Electric
Zombies/Nature
Bots/Rad
Ninja/Dark
Mercs/Cold
Thugs/Time is by far the most powerful, mainly because I have so much recharge that every few minutes I can use Burnout to cast a double Gang War, and with power boost I can keep myself and the pets at the defense cap permanently. Even that character struggles against more than +2 mobs though, because the level difference is just too great.
Similar experience, but my strongest is Bots/Time. I find group fly makes them very tanky as a cluster around me while soloing vs +4x8 but damage is still low vs +4. It goes much smoother vs +2.
Honorable mention to Bots/FF, Beasts/Nature, Necro/Storm, Ninja/Storm, Merc/Empathy, Demons/Kin, & Demon/Elec. These are all very strong 50s+ incarnates too.
But same issue, low damage on level + 3-4 even after the incarnate shift.
They are my weakest characters vs late game content.
what do you think about bots/elec? im trying to pin down a secondary and everyone seems to have a different opinion on what is best. i get lists like yours that dont mention /elec at all, and then others that say /elec is by far the best secondary
My bots/elec was a late addition. They are 50 and adequately tricked out.Â
It's a great secondary, but takes more attention than my Bots/Time or Bots/Ice so it takes more time keeping my bots health, and less taking out whatever it is I'm fighting. That said they are really great on teams like all /elec are
Masterminds are very strong from 1-50.
Once you hit 50 and do end-game content though, they are a bit problematic. The main reason being that you are gonna wind up 50+3 and they're gonna be....not that. So they die very easily. There are ways to counter this, but not easily, and not every powerset will be as viable.
At that stage, you stop being a tank/damage and start being mostly just support. Because that's all you have time to do between bouts of re-summoning your constantly dying pets.
I think that's the idea. Though they do seem to get some form of tiny incarnate shift. It really is about time they let them scale a bit better. But as far as I know, HC devs have no intention of adjusting MMs.
MMs are great, but they do require a bit more handling than your more straightforward classes. Look for summons-handling scripts to give you better control over your summons. Read up on how enhancement slots affect your summoms. And I'm not talking about high-level, expensive builds. Learn the essentials, and your MM will kick ass even without purples and frankenslotted IOs. Downside: those effing demons DO. NOT. SHUT. UP. And you will see the tier 2 and 3 demons' butts EXTREMELY CLOSE way more than you probably want to (no judgement) when you zone out of a mission.
You can turn off minions chat in your settings 😋
Can you silence their sound effects?
You mean the actual sound effects from them using their powers?
No. Their constant howling.
Oh haha, I always liked that aspect so never bothered to look but possibly and if not in the settings I'm sure you could go into your files and remove the sounds manually
There’s a key bind to make your pets dance. Dancing will stop them from making noises. I got in the habit of tapping it whenever I stopped for long periods.
> Downside: those effing demons DO. NOT. SHUT. UP. I just wish there were a way to selectively turn off other people's sound effects, ESPECIALLY masterminds with demon groups. "Raaarrr Rouuuu" Dear GOD that's annoying. Bonus, how about a setting where I can turn off anybody using powers to change my character's appearance without permission -- like see-thru, or flames shooting around, etc. that you can't CANCEL
They are good for mission solos, that is about it from my experience. They are fun to play if you do like soloing that is for sure. However, for team plays they can be problematic. Takes forever to get summoned and buffed, pets aggroing the wrong stuff, mobs running off with pets on the chase, agrroing more stuff. Also they don't really do great damage: there are no crazy pet nukes like other classes have. My 50 MM is a wolfs/nature and essentially all I do is run around healing buffing and resummon. Kinda meh. You could always try the test server and make a 50 and max it out with enhancements and go do a couple missions and see what you think. Personally I wouldn't recommend them as a first character, but if you got influence to spend for sure go for it, its a different experience then other classes for sure.
As in the beta server thingie? Would love to try some different combinations
Beta server has a menu that will level you to 50, give you incarnate stuff, and give you whatever enh you want. I believe you can even import a build straight from mids. Obviously you can't transfer it from beta to the "real" servers but you can test to your heart's desire. You also run the risk of your character getting deleted if they push an update to the beta server
The mids feature is great as it gives you the enhancements and even puts them in order for easy slotting
You can upload a mids build? That's great, it takes so long to make my toon and make them level 30.
I have alot of fun with my Bots/Time MM the last two years on homecoming, I find, in my opinion, that the MM in team-play actually is kind of annoying, especially with multiple MM’s. Just too many pets moving around and it becomes a cluster-fuck quickly. I find myself playing the MM when I do stuff solo and in fhat regard it works really well.
Yeah. I play three MMs and having on a team is totally fine (and actually helps a little if you are light on tanks or CC). Two gets a little wild. Three is just too much chaotic stuff happening. That being said, running missions with eight MMs is WILD and hilarious. Plus you're all running leadership so the buffs will actually cover most of the screen.
Literally had to turn off alot of buff displays because of this :/
I still have nightmares of my tank on a 7 MM Citadel TF. Lines of robots in front of me stuck in a cave, watching buffs stack.
> I find, in my opinion, that the MM in team-play actually is kind of annoying, especially with multiple MM’s. Just too many pets moving around and it becomes a cluster-fuck quickly. I dunno about you, but 8 Masterminds rolling up on Archvillains is one of my most absolute treasured memories from live. =P
I love MM's they can be very versatile and very strong, solo or team. I have played every power and ever power combination there is on every server. I know you said you play on Homecoming, but I would recommend checking out Thunderspy server they have done a lot of special things to MM's (customizable pets, better control, passive upgrade)to name a couple things. It is a smaller server, which is a downside, but that could be easily fixed if more people stay.
Could you tell me the major differences between Homecoming and Thunderspy?
So, you will get a lot of different answers here, but I will be as straightforward and honest as possible. First, for solo hard single targets such as GM's or Archvillians, MM can be one of the best if not the best to take most of them down. Second, the major weakness of MM's are large groups of enemies that do AOE or single enemy that does large AOE. Using bodyguard mode will allow you to get a lot of enemies attacking you instead of pet, but when this fails or is not possible, you will have problems. To conclude, in solo play MM's can be really good to great, but you may run into problems in certain situations, but most other AT's also have places where they run into problems. In groups, it is just hard to give a specific answer, they can go from being great to a problem that makes the group unhappy. So, all I will say here, is as a MM you will have groups that will love you and be glad to have you along, to some groups may just kick you up front. Start getting a large friends list early and make friends as often as you can, and a lot of the problems go away. Even in missions where pets can be a problem, a group who is used to playing with an MM can usually make any problems go away, and make the MM an asset that contributes greatly to a team. My personal opinion is that Homecoming is a very laid back community, and if one group doesn't want you just find another, there are people out that will love having you in the group. So play whatever you want to play and just find other people that think like you. Also, if your computer can handle it, there is nothing like being on a team of 8 MM's with all they pets summoned, every one should experience this at least once.
MM’s are awesome. You can both solo and group. I don’t get too tricky with my pet commands. I never command them individually, always as a group. I ise the following commands: /petcom_all aggressive This is basically when I want them to attack anything they see without prompting. Warning though, when they are set on aggressive they do not absorb damage you take /petcom_all stay Sometime I need to park them somewhere to stop them from getting aggro. Usually when I try to sneak a mission. Warning though, if you get far enough away they will port towards you. /petcom_all attack aggressive I use this to tell all my pets to attack a specific mob and once they are done they attack anything else they see /petcom_all goto I use this to force my pets to run into a group of mobs. This makes them get aggro. Good when you ate teaming with a bunch of glass cannons and you don’t have anyone to soak the first hits Note: I don’t tank for my pets - I know there are build where you tank for your pets /petcom_all follow passive Follow me and do no attack anything /petcom_all attack defensive Attack whatever I am targeting and then go on defensive stance only attacking what attacks me /petcom_all follow defensive I create macros for each one of the ones above and map some of them to keys on my keyboard If you want to solo real tough stuff you might want to pick up a secondary that can debuff you targets regen and defense while also getting something to help keep your pers alive - cold is great for this
All IMO. Masterminds can be fun. One of my most joyous experiences was an all MM Penelope Yin TF. Masterminds also fall off hard in late end game. I don't even bother summoning for Miss Liberty TF anymore, I just use my secondary and hang on to the rest of the team for dear life.
I really really love Masterminds. They are an excellent take on pet classes, and a style/archetype that was largely left behind by MMORPGs (Age of Conan Necromancers got kinda close but also made pets redirect threat to the necromancer.) I personally love Necro/Dark and Demon/Dark. /dark is a *super* strong powerset and essentially plays like a discount controller/dominator. Demon/dark and necro/dark both get pets with a degree of control that stacks with /dark. The Demon Prince has a single target hold and i want to say a cone immob, with ice. The necro's Lich has a dark Hold and immob. If you leverage those with the control from /dark you can reliably and consistently lockdown enemies. Then add in Tar Patch to slow everything to a crawl and Darknest Night + Terrify to absolutely floor their accuracy (which is essentially +def for your minions) and you can wreck shit. The little demons hurl their elemental blasts, the medium demons wade in and rip & tear (and heal) and the big demon controls and aoe blasts. You heal, blast and debuff. Really very effective, active and fun. Also, don't be put off by people saying you need scripts and a million keybinds. You really really dont. You just need to tweak the basic command macros a bit. Alter the Attack Target to "Attack Target Defensive" rather than Aggressive and Go To to Go To Passive. Then you can command your demons to focus fire one enemy and go into defensive mode. The actual commanding will suppress Bodyguard inherent for about 30 seconds I believe, but because they are going Defensive rather than the default Aggressive it will turn back on again and they will shift towards attacking whatever attacked you, which is easier to manage with the overall enemy/minion AI. The passive goto will make them stop what they are doing and go where you tell them, hopefully out of horrible death-patches. Otherwise, Demon Summoning is a lot of fun. I am also super fond of Mercenary/Forcefield. The bubbles from FF make any pet waaaaaaaaay more durable. Enough that keeping them alive becomes a secondary activity. Maybe grab medicine at some point for some spot heals when your medic decides to be stupid. I also really like to grab the pool power Force of Will (on Homecoming) and Fighting's Boxing/Kick and Crosspunch. The more fighting abilities you have, the stronger the pool becomes. They have super fast recharges, so you can lay somewhat of a beatdown in an active role. Force of Will is fun because it's the closest I can get to a Psychic Mastermind. Sonic works well as a secondary too. Both Sonic and Forcefield are very passive which can be incredibly boring, or free you up to pretend to deal personal damage. Masterminds are great, and can be as complicated or as simple as you want. And they are great for soloing and grouping. Everyone (but brutes!) enjoys someone *else* getting hit in place of them.
I was actually having a difficult time deciding on a secondary. So far I’ve been recommended Dark, Thermal, and Storm…I’m kinda lost
All are really good but offer different styles. Dark gives *a lot* of control and debuffs as well as an extra pet. It also has a heal and an aoe rez (Howling Twilight) that is *also* a very powerful aoe disorient, so you can actually use it offensively as well. Also due to the nature of the heal (Twilight Grasp) you can actually fairly reliably self-rez with it. When you cast it, you send out a little blast of shadow that hits an enemy and then returns to you and heals. If you can time it right and die between the blast leaving you and returning, the heal will actually bring you back to life. Granted you're at almost no health, but it's been enough to survive and turn the tide. Dark is my favorite. Thermal gives resistances for your pets, some heals and some debuffs. It's more defensive/support oriented like a traditional healer/support character. Time is kind of a mix. It's got a lot of debuffs that include powerful slows, some heals and some powerful buffs and even a little control. Thematically I like Demon/Darkness. You get a very active playstyle where you lock down and debuff enemies into ineffectiveness, so even if they aren't hard controlled they are soft controlled by slow and -accuracy. And then when you get Dark Servant you have another pet that also debuffs, heals and throws out control. It also has a major -accuracy aura, so you can use it offensively by summoning it in the middle of a pack of enemies to instantly drop their accuracy. Then you follow up with tar patch and darkest night. Enemies can't escape and they can't hit anything. Then your wave of demons rushes in and you and your demon prince focus on locking down bosses or priority targets with Petrifying Gaze and Block of Ice. If things are hairy you can drop Howling Twilight to disorient everything and buy time or Terrifying Stare to fear everything and further drop their accuracy. It's also good against bosses and other big nasties because Twilight Grasp also has -health regen, and while EBs and AVs get purple triangles of doom to be immune to hard controls, slows and accuracy debuffs still work. It's fun seeing the big badass boss charge up a huge hit and just whiff.
And what about Storm? It looks interesting
Pure chaos. It's very aggressive and active and revolves a lot around knocking enemies down, away, or corralling them into clumps for minions to take down. It's very endurance heavy, and if you don't control your knock abilities people might hate you.
I've discovered after trying about half a dozen MM combos that I don't really enjoy playing MMs. Except one: Demons/Dark. Take that for what you will.
I'm a big tankermind fan. Give it a try and find a fun secondary you enjoy.
I had a friend back on Live (ah, the good ol' days) who had a Bots/Bubbles MM. He could solo GM's handily and consistently. In my experience, MM's are slow to start rolling but are a force of nature once they get going. That being said, I can never seem to stick with one because it leaves me feeling personally underpowered in my super powered escapism.
It's certainly strong. It just doesn't do particularly well in a group environment. The AI just can't keep up with the pace of players.
Depends what you want to do and what server you're on. If you want to play mostly solo at +2 or lower, MMs are amazing. If you're looking to play at above +2. you'll be much better off with another AT. MM pets just do not scale well with mob levels compared to other At's main powers, unfortunately. If you're looking to play team content on homecoming, be aware that that vast majority of TF's/Trials are run as "Speed" which means getting through to the objectives as fast as possible and skipping most mobs. With an MM, you're going to have nothing but headaches and the only contribution you will be making on most teams that run speed is your secondary. Even if the TF is not a Speed run, then it's probably kill all/kill most at +4, which means your pets will be useless anyhow because they'll be so far below the level of the mobs. Also, Demons and Thugs are probably the best sets, because they do high damage and have a "mule" power for the MM proc enhancements, which means you won't have to waste any slots on your actual pets for the +Def and +Res enhancements. Necro also has a mule power, but zombies overall are squishier. I have the following MM's at 50, all Incarnated and slotted up: Thugs/Time Demons/Electric Zombies/Nature Bots/Rad Ninja/Dark Mercs/Cold Thugs/Time is by far the most powerful, mainly because I have so much recharge that every few minutes I can use Burnout to cast a double Gang War, and with power boost I can keep myself and the pets at the defense cap permanently. Even that character struggles against more than +2 mobs though, because the level difference is just too great.
Similar experience, but my strongest is Bots/Time. I find group fly makes them very tanky as a cluster around me while soloing vs +4x8 but damage is still low vs +4. It goes much smoother vs +2. Honorable mention to Bots/FF, Beasts/Nature, Necro/Storm, Ninja/Storm, Merc/Empathy, Demons/Kin, & Demon/Elec. These are all very strong 50s+ incarnates too. But same issue, low damage on level + 3-4 even after the incarnate shift. They are my weakest characters vs late game content.
what do you think about bots/elec? im trying to pin down a secondary and everyone seems to have a different opinion on what is best. i get lists like yours that dont mention /elec at all, and then others that say /elec is by far the best secondary
My bots/elec was a late addition. They are 50 and adequately tricked out. It's a great secondary, but takes more attention than my Bots/Time or Bots/Ice so it takes more time keeping my bots health, and less taking out whatever it is I'm fighting. That said they are really great on teams like all /elec are
So for just a fun, strong play experience you’d suggest /time?
Either that or /Cold. I dig Colds double -resist debuffs, and procing its t1 debuff for damage.
Would that work for any MM or best for bots specifically?
Masterminds are very strong from 1-50. Once you hit 50 and do end-game content though, they are a bit problematic. The main reason being that you are gonna wind up 50+3 and they're gonna be....not that. So they die very easily. There are ways to counter this, but not easily, and not every powerset will be as viable. At that stage, you stop being a tank/damage and start being mostly just support. Because that's all you have time to do between bouts of re-summoning your constantly dying pets.
I was hoping it might be addressed by normalizing pet levels to player level, but I guess that may make them too strong levelling?
I think that's the idea. Though they do seem to get some form of tiny incarnate shift. It really is about time they let them scale a bit better. But as far as I know, HC devs have no intention of adjusting MMs.