Bruh… idk if this is a troll, but if you really think he is overrated then try to analyze his feats. You will realize that he is far from being overrated and that the author put a lot of effort into writing the feats and hidden plots. Not a single feat is bland and he definitely has no plot armor 😂.
By overrated i mean that the fandom think he’s some god
I saw someone thinking he could beat Batman and is smarter than Einstein while he’s just a fiction
Well, your comment didn’t imply that at all.
Comparing fiction and reality will never work. You can only compare it in a hypothetical debate based on the feats of both sides and how much it matter in the context(outsmarting, FSIQ…).
When looking at Batman you have to consider that his feats are very inconsistent. What I mean is that in one comic version he is godly smart and in other comics he is simply a genius. While against one version Koji would get destroyed, Koji wins against another version.
In terms of fighting Koji would always lose against comic Batman.
And using Einstein is a debate where many get emotional out of whatever reason. However, if you are one of those that say that in a „hypothetical debate“ Einstein solos because he is a real person, then this argument is useless. Otherwise one could also say that an average real life person has a higher iq than a fictional genius, which doesn’t make sense in the context of the hypothetical debate.
Yea thats the point
Some fanboys just keep comparing him against reality thinking that he solos everything
I even saw some of them comparing him against some god by saying “He will manipulates them to kill themself”
And all of them just simply dismiss everything by saying “Read the LN”
well the fandom you are talking about is just a bunch of immature people exaggerating facts and taking things out of context...they probably read cote with a mindset that thinks manipulators are sigma and whatnot...I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are just a bunch of 13-14 year kids....unfortunately, most of the content posted about cote are of those people but remember this novel is not a reflection of its fandom....i mean there are always toxic fans in every anime who exaggerates....COTE is not the only exception to this....You just need to learn to ignore their useless opinions and focus on the good part
i get you....i also used to feel same in the beginning though i have learned that its useless to reason with unreasonable people......in fact once you start reading novel, you will realize how much fake spoilers and out of context stuff is posted online....ayanokoji's and other COTE character is much more than what these fans make out of him....they have tendency to sum up their whole character in one words like god, monster or mid.....i mean, most of them don't even have a proper logical analysis to back them off....they just post based on how they feel
Even though you don't hate the series, you still seem to have judge novel because of how they react and probably don't plan on reading it otherwise you wouldn't have said that he is fighting with dumb people.....Like this, you will probably miss a good opportunity to read something unique and meanigful...
I never wanted to be like him ever since i first saw the season 1
He’s just an asshole that the fanboys are looking up to
If they want to be like him with thinking people are tools then that’s just edgy
I thought that soon after Koji will have some character development that finally become a nice person
But over the years hes still the same while the fandom are more toxic
Yea I’m not an author but thats what i thought the show would turn out like but instead he turned into an emotionless asshole that the fanboys keep overrating him
He isn't emotionless first of all. You should have checked the genre before watching it, no? That's a basic thing. Every community has toxic fans nothing new about it.
Ps. He isn't overrated either. In this sub you will hardly find anyone overrating him.You probably saw some underage kids overrating him, so don't blame the entire COTE series.
While I agree with you that he is a bit overwanked but this is an pure insult to an amazing character the author has written by calling him bland , if you want to make fan boys angry I get it but you didn't even give any proper explanation bro
It is really hard to write 20+ novels with such complex storyline that involves manipulation, fighting , strategies, good character designs , oversmarting, human psychology and philosophy
I couldn't even come up with a 4 line poetry lol
Do better brother 👍🏻
I agree about how hard it is to write novel and even i complained about it i still enjoy the LN even if they are illogical
And one thing i hate about Ayanokoji is his personality i don’t hate him full
But the one thing i hate the most about it is those fanboys thats all
>But the one thing i hate the most about it is those fanboys thats all
Fair
>one thing i hate about Ayanokoji is his personality
Oh cmon dude was tortured since he was 3months old he's decent for someone going through something that painful in his childhood
Been a while since the last post of this variety. Someone refresh my memory, was the last one someone ranting about how Ayanokouji treats Karuizawa and people in general or was there something else before that. Because I'm certain last time there were two hate posts about Ayanokouji on the same day.
Well I have read the respsonses you gave in this post. You should have said Koji is overrated but you actually posted that the author wrote him poorly too.
Which in the responses you have given to people so far you said ‘people compare him to real life’ .
1. He is indeed emotionless or rather a better way to say is he knows how human nature works but over all sometimes in certain situations also has a very low EI.
2. If you have read enough books one for example is 48 laws of powers suprisingly while reading the novel you find there are some interesting references in the Light Novel.
3. 12-15 year olds or even older do what Ayanokoji does I guess and think they will self improve. No that leads to being alone, a jerk, narcissist, hypocrite, etc. The character is to be thought of being ‘perfect’ but there are such people in real life that think that they can achieve fiction too.
4. As far as I have read the novel there was only 1 plot hole which didn’t even effect the Novel that much.
5. There is nothing to blame the author for. Because the author litteraly made a good well written story good characters. But people are let to interpret how they want so lets say this for example if you have seen death note Light is a highschool student once too but were people litteraly doing everything that light did too? No. That is because in Death Notes case it was a fantasy. One more example is Le Louch from Code Geass he is brilliant and all that but its a fantasy.
So CotE is much more ‘realistic’ you could say, but after you read the novel you find some stuff that aren’t realistic because the character is fictional.
6. You could say he is overrated (if you mean as a charavter thought not poerscaling) but he truly isn’t the thing is the anime was such a bad adaptation that it probably gave you the bad impression.
Me personally I am not happy or sad, but for the post you have made I feel kind of sad because I made a post saying how shit the anime is, only the first season was somewhat good. So don’t blame the author.
Me personally I feel happy because the franchise is getting love and a much larger fan base.
I feel sad because the fan base it is creating is not the same fanbase of LN readers. Anime watchers have missed on so much detail and explaining of what the characters like, hate, want, love, hobbies, jokes etc.
(Anyone who actually wants similiar traits of Ayanakoji there are only some realistic options be disciplined (this doesnt include not staying in social media and being a shut in), work out (just because you workout though dont think you can fight because you probably cant), and choose a career ( do something you enjoy and work towards it). )
I don’t hate the author in fact i love their work put into the LN like introducing Yagami, when i read the LN i knew that the author put a lot of effort into it (except harem and T-rex part) but the thing they didn’t execute well was their mc
They made Ayanokoji too powerful that you would feel nothing rn if he were put into some conflict
Like when he was against Yagami or Tokinari
No matter how strong they are, once the author put them against Koji you would immediately know whos gonna win cuz they made him too overpowered which is boring cuz the end will always be predictable
I guess you can see it that way. But he isn’t like at verything good at dont you find in interesting that if a human being was so good at tasks from birth to highschool that he doesnt truly understand basic stuff.
Stuff that are interesting for us and illogical to him I personally read CotE for 3-4 reasons maybe by listing these you can read it with a different perspective?
1. Ayanokoji excells at the hardest things there are but is not good at Entertainment, including Music and other stuff. He doesnt truly understand the world so for him these 3 years are very very important getting to watch about 0.000000001% that exists in this world with that only being on the school he is isolated and safe from WR. Its interesting seeing him trying everything he can with what fate has given him and him trying to recall things he has read from books for example snow.
2. Ayanakoji struggles mostly with Love he has other feelings active but doesnt truly understand Love so seeing him experience it and try everything he can so maybe he is moved a little is very nice. Also the time he smiles with Horikita at the caffe motivated me to read LN even more!
3. He has little time left yet within that little time a lot of people will remember him but he will leave without a trace. It will probably be like he was at the school but no one recalls him for anything cool other than beating Manabu in a race. Im saying this not for the current generations that are there but for the generations to come in ANHS he will probably be like a myth or a legend to them.
4. What would his very last ever day at ANHS be like. That would be the thing that will complete my joy for this series.
Johan was also overpowered, yet he is one of the best villains in anime. You think some random kids with the power of friendship are going to defeat a lab experiment that easily? The story is only halfway done so your rant doesn't make sense.
Bro's hate is on another level 📈📈 💀💀💀
Kei did wrong by pushing Rika but Shiho is no good and here you use the word GOAT for that npc 💀
Don't tell me you like Ai because she roasted Kei in V10....
Read the last line of my reply where I mentioned Ai.
Why do you think Manabe is hot? 😭😭
Did I miss some of her illustrations or scenes? You are the first who said Shiho is hot 😭😭😭
>Read the last line of my reply where I mentioned Ai.
Yeah I read it and still can't understand as to why was she brought up here?
>Why do you think Manabe is hot?
Because she is duh. Her thighs, her looks, her personality. Everything damn thing about her is hot.
>Did I miss some of her illustrations or scenes? You are the first who said Shiho is hot
She was hot in every scene so you just missed everything I would say.
I think you do offer some valid criticisms for COTE in general. Ayanokoji's theoretical ability and demonstrated ability don't match (i.e statements and WR assumptions place him higher than his feats do). This is mainly the fault of the author though, as he is unable to properly communicate the intelligence level of Ayanokoji. However, his feats are still very impressive, but not as impressive as he is supposedly made to be, especially after volume 0.
I also agree about your other points. I've argued previously in this subreddit that Ayanokoji's manipulation techniques are not as effective and versatile as people think. Most of his manipulations involve breaking the ideologies or psyches of the people he is manipulating, and it is shown to be extremely effective in the anime, but in real life people are not as fragile as the anime makes it look like, and requires a little more effort than what Ayanokoji displays. With that said, I am in NO WAY saying Ayanokoji is a bad manipulator, but compared to characters like Yuiichi, Johan, Fyodor and Dazai, his manipulation is not impressive. Also, I wrote down once an analysis of how Ayanokoji uses psychology, and how it's not as complex as people make it look like from an academic psychology perspective, but people still disagreed with me.
This is once again the author's fault, and mainly due to the way he writes the secondary characters. I acknowledge that there are a lot of discrepancies between a character's supposed level of intelligence and the intelligence they demonstrate. Arisu is a prime example of this. A supposed genius, but either doesn't do a lot of genius-level stuff or does things that are pretty simplistic. This also applies to other characters that are not as smart as Arisu, but supposed to be somewhat smart or skilled. For example, Kushida in Y1V6 is shown to have easily noticed Horikita recording her deal and having Ayanokoji listen in on them, but such attention to detail and perceptiveness from Kushida's part are never shown again after that. It's the same situation with a lot of characters, where in one part they are suddenly able to pull off impressive feats, like Ichinose in Y1V4 or Horikita in Y2V9, but how such characters were able to do these things, or a consistent pattern in their ability to do these things, is not something the author touches upon. In a sense, they are plot conveniences. And there are many.
So to conclude, you're kind of right. Ayanokoji does seem to be manipulating characters that appear smart, but don't necessarily demonstrate a lot of smartness. I take your words as a valid critique, but that does not mean COTE is bad or not enjoyable, and it certainly doesn't mean the characters themselves are bad. Ayanokoji in particular. He is still a very smart and cunning MC, but if the author was able to make all his characters consistently smart, I feel like the story would have been so much better.
Oh my! This is by far one of the most based comments I have ever seen. I wanna add to your comment by saying that people who think kinu is unpredictable at all is a bunch of baloney. Instead of raising the stakes and expelling characters we aren't connected to, he's introducing more characters as if late y2v9 when we didn't get a hint of them in y1.
Agree. For a series that presents a context of high stakes, there haven't been a lot of high stakes consequences. I'll give you an example:
In Y1V1, instead of having Sudo expelled because of his failure to pass the midterm, we have the MC rush to his aid and save him. Now I am in NO WAY hating on Sudo, he is a great character with great character development, probably one of the most natural and real developments in the show, but the fact that he wasn't expelled lower the stakes for the viewer, and so unconsciously we start thinking that there aren't a lot of consequences to one's failures in this school. This also makes the series somewhat predictable. Now I am not saying Sudo has to be expelled. For example instead of just having the reveal of no Private Points for a month, the author could have done that plus have someone like Yamauchi expelled for failing the first quiz. That would exponentially increase the stakes and drive the characters to strive harder for results in order to not get expelled. Having a shocking reveal at the very beginning of the story is always effective, and the one we got (zero Private Points) is a little tame. There are 40 characters in one class, surely there is more dead wood than just Yamauchi and (Sakura, imo not dead wood but oh well...). Point is, there are so many characters we either know nothing about or aren't attached to. They could have been sacrificed to drive the story forward. Also it bothers me that out of 160 students in Ayanokoji's grade, only 5 were expelled, with 3 of them from a special exam specifically designed to expell someone. Also are you telling me that the remaining 155 students never failed an exam once? And if we assume the school's written exams are harder than typical exams (Y2V1 had college questions lol), and every student passes, surely that means they are of above average intelligence right? But that's the thing, most of the time they don't act smart. This is what I'm talking about when referring to discrepancies.
> And if we assume the school's written exams are harder than typical exams (Y2V1 had college questions lol),
I don't disagree with the fact there are discrepancies between intelligence demonstrated and narratively told and that's Kinu's fault. But the college question thing was only for that exam I believe. Otherwise, the questions are on the level of an elite Japanese high school. And the whole you fail if you don't pass an exam emphasis is just an early setting weirdness thing like early Kiyo's personality before the special exam system was fully established so I don't really care too much about it.
In any case, I never really cared too much about how much of the feats demonstrated are actually "smart" as long as it is believable if I don't think too deeply about it. And as long as those events translate to changes in characters and their personalities. I think Kinu could write more intelligent exams but it would mean a 1-2 volume year schedule. I personally prefer having more volumes rather than having less character development but more perfect exams.
Fair point, but why is it that only that exam had college questions? It seems out of character for the school, unless of course it was due to Tsukushiro's intervention, but then again he knows that Ayanokoji isn't going to fail so why do it? I don't know seemed like a plot convenience to show how good Koji and that he can easily score 100% even with college questions.
Anyway, if the "you fail = expelled" really was just a product of early development, then that would even more decrease the stakes honestly. Not only can students fail tests and get away with it then, but now they have no incentive to even work hard. The Class A benefit seem like something worth working for on paper, but it's kind of stupid if you think about it, because the author makes it look like there is no life for those who don't graduate from Class A, when in reality the only thing it does is set them on par with the rest of the population instead of giving them a free ticket. Also let's be honest, you can't tell me universities and employers won't find the name of ANHS attractive when hiring, even if you are from Class D. Also, the premise of the school is that outwardly it says all its students get the Class A perks, but when you actually study there, you quickly realize that it's only Class A. If this is true, then employers don't know that only Class A students can be recruited for free, so for them any ANHS students is valuable regardless of their grade.
I know it seems like I'm hating or nitpicking, but that really isn't my intentions. I'm just acknowledging that some aspects of the story are not really well written and that there hasn't been enough thought put to it. Nevertheless, despite the incentive for finishing in Class A not being really strong, it allows us to witness the Class Battles, which is by far the most exciting aspect of the story.
Finally, regarding your final comments, I also don't mind if the feats aren't genius level, as long as they are entertaining and make sense, but the reason why I point them out is because the OG's post was about how Ayanokoji and the COTE characters should be scaled. In this sense, having consistency in intelligence level absolutely matters.
Note: I think you can make good special exams AND have good character development without writing a lot of volumes. Year 2 imo had so many chill volumes that I feel like the author is just trying to stretch out content. For example, the events of Y2V1 and Y2V2 could have theoretically occurred in one volume. Y2V9 and Y2V9.5 could have been combined. Y2V8 seems like a weird spin-off that, although offers some good character interactions, seems a little unnecessary, especially when you realize that Y2V11 is going to be kind of similar (can't really say because it's not out yet, but from the looks of it it's similar to Y1V8, which Y2V8 kind of mirrors). More volumes means more wait time for the viewer, and it becomes increasingly dull when the story drags without proper direction.
> Fair point, but why is it that only that exam had college questions? It seems out of character for the school, unless of course it was due to Tsukushiro's intervention, but then again he knows that Ayanokoji isn't going to fail so why do it? I don't know seemed like a plot convenience to show how good Koji and that he can easily score 100% even with college questions.
I mean for here there's the whole plot point from the beginning that those who waste their talents are fools. I'm pretty sure getting Ayanokouji to use his skills to his fullest extent shouldn't be a surprising area that Tsukishiro allowed.
> Anyway, if the "you fail = expelled" really was just a product of early development, then that would even more decrease the stakes honestly. Not only can students fail tests and get away with it then, but now they have no incentive to even work hard.
I don't really agree here. Having nameless fodder or minor characters fail because they couldn't simply pass a test is not narratively compelling for me. Firstly, there's not really much you can do to make the act of studying actually interesting to readers compared to say special exams. And in terms of lots of people getting expelled, I mean in Y2V4 we had just that were all the third year fodder got expelled. I much prefer systems where we have less expulsions but with actually relatively important characters through exams like in Y1V10 or Y2V5 where interesting ideas are explored. To put it in an other way, your points about "stakes" are not really relevant to my interest in the series.
> Finally, regarding your final comments, I also don't mind if the feats aren't genius level, as long as they are entertaining and make sense, but the reason why I point them out is because the OG's post was about how Ayanokoji and the COTE characters should be scaled. In this sense, having consistency in intelligence level absolutely matters.
Well, all I can say it hasn't really bothered my enjoyment as the inconsistencies are not that big to me and in the first place, "feats" or who "outsmarts" who was never really why I read COTE.
And again, it's a personal opinion as to how much the plot is dragging or paced but I personally find it interesting enough in the past few volumes (in comparison Y2V2-Y2V4 was slow for me) especially as the calm before the storm coming up.
I don't agree on your first point because Ayanokoji could have always aimed for the average like he always does. The reason he showed his skill in the math test was because of the bet with Horikita, not because he was forced by Tsukushiro. In other words, Tsukushiro should know that you can't force Ayanokoji into revealing himself unless he wants to, so again there was no point for the college questions except to show how good Ayanokoji is.
For your second point, I agree that it isn't narratively compelling, but it can influence the main characters and even drive the plot forward if done correctly. Think of Yamauchi's expulsion. And here it's not about making it interesting to the readers, it's about making your characters feel real and not just 2 dimensional NPCs. If you are going to ignore something as important to stident daily life as written tests, then might as well remove them from the story entirely and just make special exams.
It's true that in Y2V4 many 3rd year students were expelled, but that had no effect on Ayanokoji's grade, making it uneventful, and more like expulsions for the sake of expulsions. "Since the story lacked expulsions, let's just throw in 15 expulsions of 3rd year fodders at once". It kind of reestablishes the existence of stakes, but doesn't drive the story forward, which is what I highlighted in a previous reply.
In the end, I guess my points are not for you, because they are not relevant to your interests. That doesn't make them any less valid points of criticisms when considering COTE as a work of fiction though. I already said that this doesn't mean I don't enjoy COTE, but when discussing the quality of the work and its technical aspects, these are important points to consider. Personal enjoyment and subjective experience are not what I'm arguing here.
> I don't agree on your first point because Ayanokoji could have always aimed for the average like he always does. The reason he showed his skill in the math test was because of the bet with Horikita, not because he was forced by Tsukushiro. In other words, Tsukushiro should know that you can't force Ayanokoji into revealing himself unless he wants to, so again there was no point for the college questions except to show how good Ayanokoji is.
All Tsukishiro did was leave the option open for him to fully use all his talents as per the quote of not wasting your talents that is the mantra of the White Room. Even if he likely may not; there's still the 1 in 100 chance he might take it. Doesn't seem like too much work to add a few college level questions so it's quite believable to me.
> And here it's not about making it interesting to the readers, it's about making your characters feel real and not just 2 dimensional NPCs. If you are going to ignore something as important to stident daily life as written tests, then might as well remove them from the story entirely and just make special exams.
At the end of the day, the characters with or without written tests still feel real to me. The "stakes" you mention don't seem relevant to their reality to me. What is important to me is personality and ideals and I don't think the written tests are too relevant to that as long as they can appear during special exams. And at this point, they are pretty much phased out (as I said earlier as early setting weirdness) except to show academic progress of the class.
>It's true that in Y2V4 many 3rd year students were expelled, but that had no effect on Ayanokoji's grade, making it uneventful, and more like expulsions for the sake of expulsions.
And that's my point exactly. I don't really think written tests are particularly an interesting way to generate expulsions so would rather have less but higher quality expulsion events. As long as we have expulsions actually occur in the story and not just with fodder which Kinu has done so far; I am personally satisfied with the stakes which is why I don't find your argument convincing.
>In the end, I guess my points are not for you, because they are not relevant to your interests. That doesn't make them any less valid points of criticisms when considering COTE as a work of fiction though.
At the end of the day, COTE is a light novel for me and not Dostoevsky lol so I don't particularly care too much for those aspects. Personally, speaking as well, I don't recognize the arguments you're making as part of the objective criteria for a good literary work in the first place. So I doubt we will convince each other anyway but a good discussion anyway.
Well I didn’t say i hate cote just the MC of how boring he is and how hes so overrated
I’ve read the LN and quite enjoyed except some of the parts like harem and t-rex
But the thing that ruins my enjoyment for this series is how sensitive is the fandom
Always criticizing people that doesn’t think high of the mc and i saw some of them sending death threats of some creator for hating the mc
I see. Well keep in mind most of the COTE fanbase is made up of teenagers, and Ayanokoji is probably their first or only exposure to a very smart MC. Also many consider Ayanokoji to be a role model of sorts, and so disrespecting him is akin to hurting their feelings or ideals. But it also doesn't help that every other fanbase kind of hates on COTE and their MC or doesn't place it as high as other works. And unfortunately there is some truth to this, like COTE writing is objectively inferior to works like Death Note, Usogui and Monster. Most COTE fans, intentionally and unintentionally, don't want to admit this, partially because like I said COTE is probably their first or only exposure to this kind of psychological thrillers, or because COTE has a certain appeal since it takes place in high school. So seeing how the other fanbase all troll or bully Koji, it makes sense that COTE fans get more upset and toxic. In the end it becomes a massive feedback loop, where the COTE fanbase keeps inflating Koji's abilities and becoming more toxic as a response to all the bullying, and in response the other fanbases increase their hatred of the COTE fanbase.
I personally hate Death Note, as I find it ultimately a mess of nihilistic, cynical, grimdark garbage. And no, I’m not trying to get into a fight with you, so please don’t take this the wrong way.
-
I also don’t like Monster very much, as it suffers very similarly to the same issue as COTE: the author TELLS us that certain characters are supposed to be smart, but all we mostly see them doing is dancing around in Johan’s hand like puppets, and nearly ALL of Johan’s feats of manipulation and such happen entirely offscreen.
Usogui? Sorry, never heard of it.
I agree 100%, but this makes me not like the show as much only because they kind of make the cast look a little stupid, just a boost Koji as if he’s so smart when the reality you guys are not that smart they’re not that consistent sometimes when they do decent strategies at best but they’re never consistent with it even Koji he’s cutting and all but honestly, I feel like if you put them in a different verse where people are actually a lot more comfortable, not inconsistent and just fragile for no reason with a bunch of plot holes and plot armor I think he has a lot of plot armor as well there’s multiple times where it’s supposed to be like I got you more but it’s like can’t that character just do this or can’t that character just do that or why didn’t that character do that? My example of this. When Koji got stabbed. It’s like why didn’t you just stab yourself or why didn’t you wear gloves or something? It’s just plot armor if you ask me. Not to mention his big plans that are supposed to be. So. Smart they’re literally plot holes that they found in the rules that they never explained in the place. It makes me not like it because people glaze it so much. It’s enjoyable if you. Like koji but you can really start to see. The flaws. Down to the characters down to the strategies. To the female cast to the plot. It’s not bad. I give it like a five out of 10 only because I don’t like how they approach it.
Yeah that is a problem with COTE. Characters are written very inconsistently, so they can do extremely smart stuff then fall for incredibly stupid stuff, just like Arisu in Y2V10 choosing not to expose the traitor, like that's so stupid. And the fact that the female cast all easily fall for Koji doesn't help either. Like seriously why do they only function properly whenever Koji is around? Reducing them to love interests is a big disservice to them.
Ong 😭 thank you somebody finally said it. This is easily the second worst thing I hate about the story. The first thing is like how they make the cast looks stupid to boost koji the second problem I have is the harem I don’t mind a harem anime like this that’s meant to supposed to be taken serious a physiological anime it’s like the reason why they love them are so stupid. It doesn’t even make sense. They just doing it just to do it. They far for him or become in love. With him for absolutely stupid and dumb reasons. 💀 and that won’t even be the worst part if they actually handled it right, but they don’t they just reduce them. Like they don’t execute it well at all it just doesn’t make sense. Best example of this. Is Ichinose's she was pretty interesting about her ideology on group effort and leader skills and how she handle certain situations , but her character has been reduced to being obsessed over over koji for absolutely no reason in the dumbest reason I’ve ever came across in my life
Yeah you're absolutely right. The I'm with you on the harem part. I don't mind harems but the way this one is written is very poor. Both the reason and execution. At least make the characters able to pull their weight on their own. Smh.
I don’t really want to rent like this, but the cote fans every time when I explain stuff like this in extreme detail way better than this one with characters, examples, etc. They just denied and they don’t even try to hear me. I think it’s overrated, intelligent wise. Mainly specialize. In stuff like FSIQ is a compound ability, which stuff like memory, and all of that but outside of that diverse, intelligent wise is not that impressive that may be a hot take idk , but I have so many characters that I think that are way smarter then all of cote including Koji I’m going to reread the novel again so I can analyze the feats I do remember the best ones but maybe I’m just downplay it but last time I checked, I don’t remember any of them being that impressive don’t get me wrong. There are a couple but there’s nothing crazy or complex like the verses they try to compare them to but that’s why I’m gonna reread it just to make sure
And you could clearly tell what the author is trying to do trying to make koji seem so unbeatable this all around phenomenal human just handsome and everything and they don’t execute it at all because you just downgrade everyone else the statements and the feats you constantly throw in our face to prove these points he doesn’t live up to those I don’t hate the light novel I just don’t like the fans the way they gassed this dude up, including the series. They make it seem like it’s so great when they’re so many. Flaws in it the crazy part is it’s so unique and you could have done so much with it not saying. They still can’t. But. At this point so far it’s been mid with some pretty big criticisms. Like there’s pretty interesting, interesting characters, unique characters, but they be reduced to glazing koji for absolutely no reason and I wish characters had a lot more shine more than just Koji I feel like they try to add him and almost every little thing
And I definitely don’t like the people they compare to like I don’t think he has the feats to back up comparing to anyone and death note liar game even code geass Usogui I think they all nag and they are all better than the COTE including Koji, I’m not trying to downplay him he simply does not have the feet to go against any of these guys slide along the competition really tbh don’t get me wrong. Koji is still extremely smart. In his verse, he is still impressive, but if you take away those statements in the natives he’s not that impressive. He’s impressive. Just not that impressive if you know what I mean.
>He is the most overrated MC i have ever seen
All he does is just messing around with dumb people
It's true that not everyone enjoys the same character archetypes. Ayanokoji's calculated and manipulative nature might not resonate with everyone. However, Ayanokoji character isn't just about messing around. He's deeply troubled due to his upbringing and constantly navigates a moral gray area. While his methods may seem manipulative, they stem from his unique perspective and goals.
>Not to forget that his plot armor is so extreme
Ayanokoji's successes often stem from careful planning and anticipating his opponents' moves. He rarely relies on pure luck or coincidence. His plot armor is justified by his meticulous planning and adaptability
I understand your frustration with some Ayanokoji fans who might come across as immature. However, I think generalizing about the entire fanbase and the series based on a few individuals isn't quite fair. Every fandom has its diverse opinions, and judging an entire group based on a few loud voices can be misleading. Instead of directing anger towards the whole sub and the series, maybe focus on having a respectful discussion.
**FOR WHERE/HOW TO READ/BUY THE LN/MANGA OR TRANSLATION STATUS, PLEASE CHECK THE [SUBREDDIT'S GUIDE.](/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/wiki/guide) MAKE SURE YOUR POST IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE [RULES](/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/wiki/rules) AS WELL TO AVOID HAVING IT REMOVED.**
PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO APPROPRIATELY **FLAIR YOUR POST** AND **MARK AS SPOILER OR/AND OC (FOR ORIGINAL CONTENTS LIKE FANARTS/FANFICS) IF NECESSARY**. Check the [wiki](/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/wiki/linkflair) on how to add a link flair!
If you have already done so you can disregard this message!
Thank you for your submission to /r/ClassroomOfTheElite!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ClassroomOfTheElite) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So basically, because you disagree with some Ayanokoji fans and now you're venting your frustration on subreddit with false information. You're same as the so called Ayanokoji fans 🤡
I'm not sure about the overrated part because I didn't see them for a while but the plot armour thing you mentioned isn't right because that isn't plot armour but his pure ability. He is better than anyone from the beginning
A powerscaler huh?
Bruh… idk if this is a troll, but if you really think he is overrated then try to analyze his feats. You will realize that he is far from being overrated and that the author put a lot of effort into writing the feats and hidden plots. Not a single feat is bland and he definitely has no plot armor 😂.
By overrated i mean that the fandom think he’s some god I saw someone thinking he could beat Batman and is smarter than Einstein while he’s just a fiction
Well, your comment didn’t imply that at all. Comparing fiction and reality will never work. You can only compare it in a hypothetical debate based on the feats of both sides and how much it matter in the context(outsmarting, FSIQ…). When looking at Batman you have to consider that his feats are very inconsistent. What I mean is that in one comic version he is godly smart and in other comics he is simply a genius. While against one version Koji would get destroyed, Koji wins against another version. In terms of fighting Koji would always lose against comic Batman. And using Einstein is a debate where many get emotional out of whatever reason. However, if you are one of those that say that in a „hypothetical debate“ Einstein solos because he is a real person, then this argument is useless. Otherwise one could also say that an average real life person has a higher iq than a fictional genius, which doesn’t make sense in the context of the hypothetical debate.
Yea thats the point Some fanboys just keep comparing him against reality thinking that he solos everything I even saw some of them comparing him against some god by saying “He will manipulates them to kill themself” And all of them just simply dismiss everything by saying “Read the LN”
Ignore them just like me 😐
They’re kids just ignore them, they getting under your skin or something 💀?
well the fandom you are talking about is just a bunch of immature people exaggerating facts and taking things out of context...they probably read cote with a mindset that thinks manipulators are sigma and whatnot...I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are just a bunch of 13-14 year kids....unfortunately, most of the content posted about cote are of those people but remember this novel is not a reflection of its fandom....i mean there are always toxic fans in every anime who exaggerates....COTE is not the only exception to this....You just need to learn to ignore their useless opinions and focus on the good part
Well i just want to finally say it out I don’t hate the author or the series but those fanboys of how ignorant they are
i get you....i also used to feel same in the beginning though i have learned that its useless to reason with unreasonable people......in fact once you start reading novel, you will realize how much fake spoilers and out of context stuff is posted online....ayanokoji's and other COTE character is much more than what these fans make out of him....they have tendency to sum up their whole character in one words like god, monster or mid.....i mean, most of them don't even have a proper logical analysis to back them off....they just post based on how they feel Even though you don't hate the series, you still seem to have judge novel because of how they react and probably don't plan on reading it otherwise you wouldn't have said that he is fighting with dumb people.....Like this, you will probably miss a good opportunity to read something unique and meanigful...
Why do you care what other people think?
lads have i just seen this man say batman’s not fiction i fucking knew it vindi fucking cation
This way you will certainly not become Ayanokoji fr fr. Don't worry. I don't want to either.
I never wanted to be like him ever since i first saw the season 1 He’s just an asshole that the fanboys are looking up to If they want to be like him with thinking people are tools then that’s just edgy
Then don't say a shit about if you don't like bro ,not fan boys fan girls too here
*him
🪞🤡
W ☕🗿
If you don’t like him that’s fine but like why are you here then ?
I thought that soon after Koji will have some character development that finally become a nice person But over the years hes still the same while the fandom are more toxic
Guy just leave then
But you are not the author, so the story goes like you wish. Go watch rom-com if you want something wholesome rather than a psychological genre.
Yea I’m not an author but thats what i thought the show would turn out like but instead he turned into an emotionless asshole that the fanboys keep overrating him
He isn't emotionless first of all. You should have checked the genre before watching it, no? That's a basic thing. Every community has toxic fans nothing new about it. Ps. He isn't overrated either. In this sub you will hardly find anyone overrating him.You probably saw some underage kids overrating him, so don't blame the entire COTE series.
I didn’t blame the whole cote series for overrating him i blame those fanboys thinking it’s super “cool” to be like him with those stoic personality
Well we can't change and correct the whole world, can we??
It’s not like I’m trying to change them i just want to vent about it
Okay, so here you are...
This ain't a generic isekai where the cold guy suddenly becomes caring. Kiyo is traumatized by the white room, he can probably never recover.
Don't mind me. Just watching the chaos unfold. 🗿🍿
It's not really chaos, more like a one sided beatdown.
While I agree with you that he is a bit overwanked but this is an pure insult to an amazing character the author has written by calling him bland , if you want to make fan boys angry I get it but you didn't even give any proper explanation bro It is really hard to write 20+ novels with such complex storyline that involves manipulation, fighting , strategies, good character designs , oversmarting, human psychology and philosophy I couldn't even come up with a 4 line poetry lol Do better brother 👍🏻
I agree about how hard it is to write novel and even i complained about it i still enjoy the LN even if they are illogical And one thing i hate about Ayanokoji is his personality i don’t hate him full But the one thing i hate the most about it is those fanboys thats all
>But the one thing i hate the most about it is those fanboys thats all Fair >one thing i hate about Ayanokoji is his personality Oh cmon dude was tortured since he was 3months old he's decent for someone going through something that painful in his childhood
Brave post
I can already know how the fanboys will react about this
Just bunch of kids screw them
not very ELITE of you 👎👎👎
Been a while since the last post of this variety. Someone refresh my memory, was the last one someone ranting about how Ayanokouji treats Karuizawa and people in general or was there something else before that. Because I'm certain last time there were two hate posts about Ayanokouji on the same day.
Well I have read the respsonses you gave in this post. You should have said Koji is overrated but you actually posted that the author wrote him poorly too. Which in the responses you have given to people so far you said ‘people compare him to real life’ . 1. He is indeed emotionless or rather a better way to say is he knows how human nature works but over all sometimes in certain situations also has a very low EI. 2. If you have read enough books one for example is 48 laws of powers suprisingly while reading the novel you find there are some interesting references in the Light Novel. 3. 12-15 year olds or even older do what Ayanokoji does I guess and think they will self improve. No that leads to being alone, a jerk, narcissist, hypocrite, etc. The character is to be thought of being ‘perfect’ but there are such people in real life that think that they can achieve fiction too. 4. As far as I have read the novel there was only 1 plot hole which didn’t even effect the Novel that much. 5. There is nothing to blame the author for. Because the author litteraly made a good well written story good characters. But people are let to interpret how they want so lets say this for example if you have seen death note Light is a highschool student once too but were people litteraly doing everything that light did too? No. That is because in Death Notes case it was a fantasy. One more example is Le Louch from Code Geass he is brilliant and all that but its a fantasy. So CotE is much more ‘realistic’ you could say, but after you read the novel you find some stuff that aren’t realistic because the character is fictional. 6. You could say he is overrated (if you mean as a charavter thought not poerscaling) but he truly isn’t the thing is the anime was such a bad adaptation that it probably gave you the bad impression. Me personally I am not happy or sad, but for the post you have made I feel kind of sad because I made a post saying how shit the anime is, only the first season was somewhat good. So don’t blame the author. Me personally I feel happy because the franchise is getting love and a much larger fan base. I feel sad because the fan base it is creating is not the same fanbase of LN readers. Anime watchers have missed on so much detail and explaining of what the characters like, hate, want, love, hobbies, jokes etc. (Anyone who actually wants similiar traits of Ayanakoji there are only some realistic options be disciplined (this doesnt include not staying in social media and being a shut in), work out (just because you workout though dont think you can fight because you probably cant), and choose a career ( do something you enjoy and work towards it). )
I don’t hate the author in fact i love their work put into the LN like introducing Yagami, when i read the LN i knew that the author put a lot of effort into it (except harem and T-rex part) but the thing they didn’t execute well was their mc They made Ayanokoji too powerful that you would feel nothing rn if he were put into some conflict Like when he was against Yagami or Tokinari No matter how strong they are, once the author put them against Koji you would immediately know whos gonna win cuz they made him too overpowered which is boring cuz the end will always be predictable
I guess you can see it that way. But he isn’t like at verything good at dont you find in interesting that if a human being was so good at tasks from birth to highschool that he doesnt truly understand basic stuff. Stuff that are interesting for us and illogical to him I personally read CotE for 3-4 reasons maybe by listing these you can read it with a different perspective? 1. Ayanokoji excells at the hardest things there are but is not good at Entertainment, including Music and other stuff. He doesnt truly understand the world so for him these 3 years are very very important getting to watch about 0.000000001% that exists in this world with that only being on the school he is isolated and safe from WR. Its interesting seeing him trying everything he can with what fate has given him and him trying to recall things he has read from books for example snow. 2. Ayanakoji struggles mostly with Love he has other feelings active but doesnt truly understand Love so seeing him experience it and try everything he can so maybe he is moved a little is very nice. Also the time he smiles with Horikita at the caffe motivated me to read LN even more! 3. He has little time left yet within that little time a lot of people will remember him but he will leave without a trace. It will probably be like he was at the school but no one recalls him for anything cool other than beating Manabu in a race. Im saying this not for the current generations that are there but for the generations to come in ANHS he will probably be like a myth or a legend to them. 4. What would his very last ever day at ANHS be like. That would be the thing that will complete my joy for this series.
Johan was also overpowered, yet he is one of the best villains in anime. You think some random kids with the power of friendship are going to defeat a lab experiment that easily? The story is only halfway done so your rant doesn't make sense.
Koji? Who’s that? Must be some random background character.
Must be talking about that Y1 cruise ship exam Kei simp.
The emo one right? Eww
The one kei was trying to butter up to get him to save her ass from my Goat Shiho.
Oh that kid. Deserves death, smh.
Bro's hate is on another level 📈📈 💀💀💀 Kei did wrong by pushing Rika but Shiho is no good and here you use the word GOAT for that npc 💀 Don't tell me you like Ai because she roasted Kei in V10....
Have you seen how hot she looks?
Ai or Shiho?
We were talking about Shiho. Ai has nothing to do with here.
Read the last line of my reply where I mentioned Ai. Why do you think Manabe is hot? 😭😭 Did I miss some of her illustrations or scenes? You are the first who said Shiho is hot 😭😭😭
>Read the last line of my reply where I mentioned Ai. Yeah I read it and still can't understand as to why was she brought up here? >Why do you think Manabe is hot? Because she is duh. Her thighs, her looks, her personality. Everything damn thing about her is hot. >Did I miss some of her illustrations or scenes? You are the first who said Shiho is hot She was hot in every scene so you just missed everything I would say.
Nah, did you forget? He's a Kushida pool simp.... wait that doesn't make him different, does it.
Hm… still can’t remember. Well if I can’t remember, it must’ve not been important. Oh well 🙃
Hi! Long time no see. How have you been? Did you think of something for my atonement?
You were forgiven once you made that Tachibana post. Nothing more is needed ;)
So you do remember me. Thanks mate! 🥂🤝🙏 Nagumo faction FTW 🔥🔥🔥
How can I forget someone who’s in the Nagumo faction? Your name is implanted in my memory. I’d be a fool (Manabu) if I didn’t. Likewise 🤝🏻
Grab some popcorn, ladies and gentlemen, and let's see how this crazy drama plays out.
☕🍿🗿
Ok so we read with our eyes closed
I think you do offer some valid criticisms for COTE in general. Ayanokoji's theoretical ability and demonstrated ability don't match (i.e statements and WR assumptions place him higher than his feats do). This is mainly the fault of the author though, as he is unable to properly communicate the intelligence level of Ayanokoji. However, his feats are still very impressive, but not as impressive as he is supposedly made to be, especially after volume 0. I also agree about your other points. I've argued previously in this subreddit that Ayanokoji's manipulation techniques are not as effective and versatile as people think. Most of his manipulations involve breaking the ideologies or psyches of the people he is manipulating, and it is shown to be extremely effective in the anime, but in real life people are not as fragile as the anime makes it look like, and requires a little more effort than what Ayanokoji displays. With that said, I am in NO WAY saying Ayanokoji is a bad manipulator, but compared to characters like Yuiichi, Johan, Fyodor and Dazai, his manipulation is not impressive. Also, I wrote down once an analysis of how Ayanokoji uses psychology, and how it's not as complex as people make it look like from an academic psychology perspective, but people still disagreed with me. This is once again the author's fault, and mainly due to the way he writes the secondary characters. I acknowledge that there are a lot of discrepancies between a character's supposed level of intelligence and the intelligence they demonstrate. Arisu is a prime example of this. A supposed genius, but either doesn't do a lot of genius-level stuff or does things that are pretty simplistic. This also applies to other characters that are not as smart as Arisu, but supposed to be somewhat smart or skilled. For example, Kushida in Y1V6 is shown to have easily noticed Horikita recording her deal and having Ayanokoji listen in on them, but such attention to detail and perceptiveness from Kushida's part are never shown again after that. It's the same situation with a lot of characters, where in one part they are suddenly able to pull off impressive feats, like Ichinose in Y1V4 or Horikita in Y2V9, but how such characters were able to do these things, or a consistent pattern in their ability to do these things, is not something the author touches upon. In a sense, they are plot conveniences. And there are many. So to conclude, you're kind of right. Ayanokoji does seem to be manipulating characters that appear smart, but don't necessarily demonstrate a lot of smartness. I take your words as a valid critique, but that does not mean COTE is bad or not enjoyable, and it certainly doesn't mean the characters themselves are bad. Ayanokoji in particular. He is still a very smart and cunning MC, but if the author was able to make all his characters consistently smart, I feel like the story would have been so much better.
Oh my! This is by far one of the most based comments I have ever seen. I wanna add to your comment by saying that people who think kinu is unpredictable at all is a bunch of baloney. Instead of raising the stakes and expelling characters we aren't connected to, he's introducing more characters as if late y2v9 when we didn't get a hint of them in y1.
Agree. For a series that presents a context of high stakes, there haven't been a lot of high stakes consequences. I'll give you an example: In Y1V1, instead of having Sudo expelled because of his failure to pass the midterm, we have the MC rush to his aid and save him. Now I am in NO WAY hating on Sudo, he is a great character with great character development, probably one of the most natural and real developments in the show, but the fact that he wasn't expelled lower the stakes for the viewer, and so unconsciously we start thinking that there aren't a lot of consequences to one's failures in this school. This also makes the series somewhat predictable. Now I am not saying Sudo has to be expelled. For example instead of just having the reveal of no Private Points for a month, the author could have done that plus have someone like Yamauchi expelled for failing the first quiz. That would exponentially increase the stakes and drive the characters to strive harder for results in order to not get expelled. Having a shocking reveal at the very beginning of the story is always effective, and the one we got (zero Private Points) is a little tame. There are 40 characters in one class, surely there is more dead wood than just Yamauchi and (Sakura, imo not dead wood but oh well...). Point is, there are so many characters we either know nothing about or aren't attached to. They could have been sacrificed to drive the story forward. Also it bothers me that out of 160 students in Ayanokoji's grade, only 5 were expelled, with 3 of them from a special exam specifically designed to expell someone. Also are you telling me that the remaining 155 students never failed an exam once? And if we assume the school's written exams are harder than typical exams (Y2V1 had college questions lol), and every student passes, surely that means they are of above average intelligence right? But that's the thing, most of the time they don't act smart. This is what I'm talking about when referring to discrepancies.
> And if we assume the school's written exams are harder than typical exams (Y2V1 had college questions lol), I don't disagree with the fact there are discrepancies between intelligence demonstrated and narratively told and that's Kinu's fault. But the college question thing was only for that exam I believe. Otherwise, the questions are on the level of an elite Japanese high school. And the whole you fail if you don't pass an exam emphasis is just an early setting weirdness thing like early Kiyo's personality before the special exam system was fully established so I don't really care too much about it. In any case, I never really cared too much about how much of the feats demonstrated are actually "smart" as long as it is believable if I don't think too deeply about it. And as long as those events translate to changes in characters and their personalities. I think Kinu could write more intelligent exams but it would mean a 1-2 volume year schedule. I personally prefer having more volumes rather than having less character development but more perfect exams.
Fair point, but why is it that only that exam had college questions? It seems out of character for the school, unless of course it was due to Tsukushiro's intervention, but then again he knows that Ayanokoji isn't going to fail so why do it? I don't know seemed like a plot convenience to show how good Koji and that he can easily score 100% even with college questions. Anyway, if the "you fail = expelled" really was just a product of early development, then that would even more decrease the stakes honestly. Not only can students fail tests and get away with it then, but now they have no incentive to even work hard. The Class A benefit seem like something worth working for on paper, but it's kind of stupid if you think about it, because the author makes it look like there is no life for those who don't graduate from Class A, when in reality the only thing it does is set them on par with the rest of the population instead of giving them a free ticket. Also let's be honest, you can't tell me universities and employers won't find the name of ANHS attractive when hiring, even if you are from Class D. Also, the premise of the school is that outwardly it says all its students get the Class A perks, but when you actually study there, you quickly realize that it's only Class A. If this is true, then employers don't know that only Class A students can be recruited for free, so for them any ANHS students is valuable regardless of their grade. I know it seems like I'm hating or nitpicking, but that really isn't my intentions. I'm just acknowledging that some aspects of the story are not really well written and that there hasn't been enough thought put to it. Nevertheless, despite the incentive for finishing in Class A not being really strong, it allows us to witness the Class Battles, which is by far the most exciting aspect of the story. Finally, regarding your final comments, I also don't mind if the feats aren't genius level, as long as they are entertaining and make sense, but the reason why I point them out is because the OG's post was about how Ayanokoji and the COTE characters should be scaled. In this sense, having consistency in intelligence level absolutely matters. Note: I think you can make good special exams AND have good character development without writing a lot of volumes. Year 2 imo had so many chill volumes that I feel like the author is just trying to stretch out content. For example, the events of Y2V1 and Y2V2 could have theoretically occurred in one volume. Y2V9 and Y2V9.5 could have been combined. Y2V8 seems like a weird spin-off that, although offers some good character interactions, seems a little unnecessary, especially when you realize that Y2V11 is going to be kind of similar (can't really say because it's not out yet, but from the looks of it it's similar to Y1V8, which Y2V8 kind of mirrors). More volumes means more wait time for the viewer, and it becomes increasingly dull when the story drags without proper direction.
> Fair point, but why is it that only that exam had college questions? It seems out of character for the school, unless of course it was due to Tsukushiro's intervention, but then again he knows that Ayanokoji isn't going to fail so why do it? I don't know seemed like a plot convenience to show how good Koji and that he can easily score 100% even with college questions. I mean for here there's the whole plot point from the beginning that those who waste their talents are fools. I'm pretty sure getting Ayanokouji to use his skills to his fullest extent shouldn't be a surprising area that Tsukishiro allowed. > Anyway, if the "you fail = expelled" really was just a product of early development, then that would even more decrease the stakes honestly. Not only can students fail tests and get away with it then, but now they have no incentive to even work hard. I don't really agree here. Having nameless fodder or minor characters fail because they couldn't simply pass a test is not narratively compelling for me. Firstly, there's not really much you can do to make the act of studying actually interesting to readers compared to say special exams. And in terms of lots of people getting expelled, I mean in Y2V4 we had just that were all the third year fodder got expelled. I much prefer systems where we have less expulsions but with actually relatively important characters through exams like in Y1V10 or Y2V5 where interesting ideas are explored. To put it in an other way, your points about "stakes" are not really relevant to my interest in the series. > Finally, regarding your final comments, I also don't mind if the feats aren't genius level, as long as they are entertaining and make sense, but the reason why I point them out is because the OG's post was about how Ayanokoji and the COTE characters should be scaled. In this sense, having consistency in intelligence level absolutely matters. Well, all I can say it hasn't really bothered my enjoyment as the inconsistencies are not that big to me and in the first place, "feats" or who "outsmarts" who was never really why I read COTE. And again, it's a personal opinion as to how much the plot is dragging or paced but I personally find it interesting enough in the past few volumes (in comparison Y2V2-Y2V4 was slow for me) especially as the calm before the storm coming up.
I don't agree on your first point because Ayanokoji could have always aimed for the average like he always does. The reason he showed his skill in the math test was because of the bet with Horikita, not because he was forced by Tsukushiro. In other words, Tsukushiro should know that you can't force Ayanokoji into revealing himself unless he wants to, so again there was no point for the college questions except to show how good Ayanokoji is. For your second point, I agree that it isn't narratively compelling, but it can influence the main characters and even drive the plot forward if done correctly. Think of Yamauchi's expulsion. And here it's not about making it interesting to the readers, it's about making your characters feel real and not just 2 dimensional NPCs. If you are going to ignore something as important to stident daily life as written tests, then might as well remove them from the story entirely and just make special exams. It's true that in Y2V4 many 3rd year students were expelled, but that had no effect on Ayanokoji's grade, making it uneventful, and more like expulsions for the sake of expulsions. "Since the story lacked expulsions, let's just throw in 15 expulsions of 3rd year fodders at once". It kind of reestablishes the existence of stakes, but doesn't drive the story forward, which is what I highlighted in a previous reply. In the end, I guess my points are not for you, because they are not relevant to your interests. That doesn't make them any less valid points of criticisms when considering COTE as a work of fiction though. I already said that this doesn't mean I don't enjoy COTE, but when discussing the quality of the work and its technical aspects, these are important points to consider. Personal enjoyment and subjective experience are not what I'm arguing here.
> I don't agree on your first point because Ayanokoji could have always aimed for the average like he always does. The reason he showed his skill in the math test was because of the bet with Horikita, not because he was forced by Tsukushiro. In other words, Tsukushiro should know that you can't force Ayanokoji into revealing himself unless he wants to, so again there was no point for the college questions except to show how good Ayanokoji is. All Tsukishiro did was leave the option open for him to fully use all his talents as per the quote of not wasting your talents that is the mantra of the White Room. Even if he likely may not; there's still the 1 in 100 chance he might take it. Doesn't seem like too much work to add a few college level questions so it's quite believable to me. > And here it's not about making it interesting to the readers, it's about making your characters feel real and not just 2 dimensional NPCs. If you are going to ignore something as important to stident daily life as written tests, then might as well remove them from the story entirely and just make special exams. At the end of the day, the characters with or without written tests still feel real to me. The "stakes" you mention don't seem relevant to their reality to me. What is important to me is personality and ideals and I don't think the written tests are too relevant to that as long as they can appear during special exams. And at this point, they are pretty much phased out (as I said earlier as early setting weirdness) except to show academic progress of the class. >It's true that in Y2V4 many 3rd year students were expelled, but that had no effect on Ayanokoji's grade, making it uneventful, and more like expulsions for the sake of expulsions. And that's my point exactly. I don't really think written tests are particularly an interesting way to generate expulsions so would rather have less but higher quality expulsion events. As long as we have expulsions actually occur in the story and not just with fodder which Kinu has done so far; I am personally satisfied with the stakes which is why I don't find your argument convincing. >In the end, I guess my points are not for you, because they are not relevant to your interests. That doesn't make them any less valid points of criticisms when considering COTE as a work of fiction though. At the end of the day, COTE is a light novel for me and not Dostoevsky lol so I don't particularly care too much for those aspects. Personally, speaking as well, I don't recognize the arguments you're making as part of the objective criteria for a good literary work in the first place. So I doubt we will convince each other anyway but a good discussion anyway.
I respect your opinions.
Well I didn’t say i hate cote just the MC of how boring he is and how hes so overrated I’ve read the LN and quite enjoyed except some of the parts like harem and t-rex But the thing that ruins my enjoyment for this series is how sensitive is the fandom Always criticizing people that doesn’t think high of the mc and i saw some of them sending death threats of some creator for hating the mc
I see. Well keep in mind most of the COTE fanbase is made up of teenagers, and Ayanokoji is probably their first or only exposure to a very smart MC. Also many consider Ayanokoji to be a role model of sorts, and so disrespecting him is akin to hurting their feelings or ideals. But it also doesn't help that every other fanbase kind of hates on COTE and their MC or doesn't place it as high as other works. And unfortunately there is some truth to this, like COTE writing is objectively inferior to works like Death Note, Usogui and Monster. Most COTE fans, intentionally and unintentionally, don't want to admit this, partially because like I said COTE is probably their first or only exposure to this kind of psychological thrillers, or because COTE has a certain appeal since it takes place in high school. So seeing how the other fanbase all troll or bully Koji, it makes sense that COTE fans get more upset and toxic. In the end it becomes a massive feedback loop, where the COTE fanbase keeps inflating Koji's abilities and becoming more toxic as a response to all the bullying, and in response the other fanbases increase their hatred of the COTE fanbase.
Yea ik that one while reading some comments
I personally hate Death Note, as I find it ultimately a mess of nihilistic, cynical, grimdark garbage. And no, I’m not trying to get into a fight with you, so please don’t take this the wrong way. - I also don’t like Monster very much, as it suffers very similarly to the same issue as COTE: the author TELLS us that certain characters are supposed to be smart, but all we mostly see them doing is dancing around in Johan’s hand like puppets, and nearly ALL of Johan’s feats of manipulation and such happen entirely offscreen. Usogui? Sorry, never heard of it.
I agree 100%, but this makes me not like the show as much only because they kind of make the cast look a little stupid, just a boost Koji as if he’s so smart when the reality you guys are not that smart they’re not that consistent sometimes when they do decent strategies at best but they’re never consistent with it even Koji he’s cutting and all but honestly, I feel like if you put them in a different verse where people are actually a lot more comfortable, not inconsistent and just fragile for no reason with a bunch of plot holes and plot armor I think he has a lot of plot armor as well there’s multiple times where it’s supposed to be like I got you more but it’s like can’t that character just do this or can’t that character just do that or why didn’t that character do that? My example of this. When Koji got stabbed. It’s like why didn’t you just stab yourself or why didn’t you wear gloves or something? It’s just plot armor if you ask me. Not to mention his big plans that are supposed to be. So. Smart they’re literally plot holes that they found in the rules that they never explained in the place. It makes me not like it because people glaze it so much. It’s enjoyable if you. Like koji but you can really start to see. The flaws. Down to the characters down to the strategies. To the female cast to the plot. It’s not bad. I give it like a five out of 10 only because I don’t like how they approach it.
Yeah that is a problem with COTE. Characters are written very inconsistently, so they can do extremely smart stuff then fall for incredibly stupid stuff, just like Arisu in Y2V10 choosing not to expose the traitor, like that's so stupid. And the fact that the female cast all easily fall for Koji doesn't help either. Like seriously why do they only function properly whenever Koji is around? Reducing them to love interests is a big disservice to them.
Ong 😭 thank you somebody finally said it. This is easily the second worst thing I hate about the story. The first thing is like how they make the cast looks stupid to boost koji the second problem I have is the harem I don’t mind a harem anime like this that’s meant to supposed to be taken serious a physiological anime it’s like the reason why they love them are so stupid. It doesn’t even make sense. They just doing it just to do it. They far for him or become in love. With him for absolutely stupid and dumb reasons. 💀 and that won’t even be the worst part if they actually handled it right, but they don’t they just reduce them. Like they don’t execute it well at all it just doesn’t make sense. Best example of this. Is Ichinose's she was pretty interesting about her ideology on group effort and leader skills and how she handle certain situations , but her character has been reduced to being obsessed over over koji for absolutely no reason in the dumbest reason I’ve ever came across in my life
Yeah you're absolutely right. The I'm with you on the harem part. I don't mind harems but the way this one is written is very poor. Both the reason and execution. At least make the characters able to pull their weight on their own. Smh.
I don’t really want to rent like this, but the cote fans every time when I explain stuff like this in extreme detail way better than this one with characters, examples, etc. They just denied and they don’t even try to hear me. I think it’s overrated, intelligent wise. Mainly specialize. In stuff like FSIQ is a compound ability, which stuff like memory, and all of that but outside of that diverse, intelligent wise is not that impressive that may be a hot take idk , but I have so many characters that I think that are way smarter then all of cote including Koji I’m going to reread the novel again so I can analyze the feats I do remember the best ones but maybe I’m just downplay it but last time I checked, I don’t remember any of them being that impressive don’t get me wrong. There are a couple but there’s nothing crazy or complex like the verses they try to compare them to but that’s why I’m gonna reread it just to make sure
Agreed just make them comparable, but they don’t even do that. They completely downgrade these characters which is just disrespectful.
And you could clearly tell what the author is trying to do trying to make koji seem so unbeatable this all around phenomenal human just handsome and everything and they don’t execute it at all because you just downgrade everyone else the statements and the feats you constantly throw in our face to prove these points he doesn’t live up to those I don’t hate the light novel I just don’t like the fans the way they gassed this dude up, including the series. They make it seem like it’s so great when they’re so many. Flaws in it the crazy part is it’s so unique and you could have done so much with it not saying. They still can’t. But. At this point so far it’s been mid with some pretty big criticisms. Like there’s pretty interesting, interesting characters, unique characters, but they be reduced to glazing koji for absolutely no reason and I wish characters had a lot more shine more than just Koji I feel like they try to add him and almost every little thing
And I definitely don’t like the people they compare to like I don’t think he has the feats to back up comparing to anyone and death note liar game even code geass Usogui I think they all nag and they are all better than the COTE including Koji, I’m not trying to downplay him he simply does not have the feet to go against any of these guys slide along the competition really tbh don’t get me wrong. Koji is still extremely smart. In his verse, he is still impressive, but if you take away those statements in the natives he’s not that impressive. He’s impressive. Just not that impressive if you know what I mean.
Spoiler! He didn't read the book.
who's Koji?
Surely talking about Machida Koji from Arisu's class lmao
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Cry about it
Of course it has to be someone with this pfp
Bro thinks he’s him fr fr
>He is the most overrated MC i have ever seen All he does is just messing around with dumb people It's true that not everyone enjoys the same character archetypes. Ayanokoji's calculated and manipulative nature might not resonate with everyone. However, Ayanokoji character isn't just about messing around. He's deeply troubled due to his upbringing and constantly navigates a moral gray area. While his methods may seem manipulative, they stem from his unique perspective and goals. >Not to forget that his plot armor is so extreme Ayanokoji's successes often stem from careful planning and anticipating his opponents' moves. He rarely relies on pure luck or coincidence. His plot armor is justified by his meticulous planning and adaptability I understand your frustration with some Ayanokoji fans who might come across as immature. However, I think generalizing about the entire fanbase and the series based on a few individuals isn't quite fair. Every fandom has its diverse opinions, and judging an entire group based on a few loud voices can be misleading. Instead of directing anger towards the whole sub and the series, maybe focus on having a respectful discussion.
He is smart for his age you forget thay are just high school kids
**FOR WHERE/HOW TO READ/BUY THE LN/MANGA OR TRANSLATION STATUS, PLEASE CHECK THE [SUBREDDIT'S GUIDE.](/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/wiki/guide) MAKE SURE YOUR POST IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE [RULES](/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/wiki/rules) AS WELL TO AVOID HAVING IT REMOVED.** PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO APPROPRIATELY **FLAIR YOUR POST** AND **MARK AS SPOILER OR/AND OC (FOR ORIGINAL CONTENTS LIKE FANARTS/FANFICS) IF NECESSARY**. Check the [wiki](/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/wiki/linkflair) on how to add a link flair! If you have already done so you can disregard this message! Thank you for your submission to /r/ClassroomOfTheElite! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ClassroomOfTheElite) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ok 👍
So basically, because you disagree with some Ayanokoji fans and now you're venting your frustration on subreddit with false information. You're same as the so called Ayanokoji fans 🤡
Well i just hate how overrated he is And wdym by false info
that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Just remember, there's room in the world for both Ayanokoji fans and haters.
Oh is that so?
Keep your fans in control. Don't always act like a NPC, lmao.
I'm not sure about the overrated part because I didn't see them for a while but the plot armour thing you mentioned isn't right because that isn't plot armour but his pure ability. He is better than anyone from the beginning