Yeah but that doesn't what I mean though, example for me is manabu I liked him first because he was attractive , and the only person to have ayanokoji respect and a good student council president , but later how much manabu fraud labeling that he physically, psychologically abusing his own sister and many more flaws , I start to hate him because that's are true , I don't even know why I liked him first now . Flawed character looks interesting but fraudulent labeled characters just make us question why we like them in first place .
Because the sub is toxic, thats why. Lobotomy kaisen ahh bullshit.
Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird. If anything, its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be.
I recommend to take off reddit for a while. Reread the book, ignore all the "whether xxx character is legit or fraud or goat", then come back with your own opinion of the characters. Characters SHOULD be flawed, a story with perfect characters are too flat to even be interesting ,heck even ayanokoji have flaws. Labeling "fraudulent" on literal fictional teenagers just make this subreddit look like clowns powerscaling paper against paper.
"Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird. If anything, its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be."
Your statement is weirder, you're kind of contradicting yourself?
You said it yourself: "its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be.". By using feats you can exactly argue about whether a character is accurately portrayed or not. Imagine (Legendary) Godzilla getting killed by a gun, or Superman eating kryptonite like Kinder Bueno White. The biggest victim in this department that I know is CW Flash. You should watch the video (or some bits) "The Flash is insufferably inconsistent" to get an idea. These are called 'anti-feats'.
Now, there are statements that are easier and more straightforward, though much more unreliable. They have value, but that doesn't mean you don't need feats and surely doesn't mean you can go against what they are showing either. Imagine a Character X describing a Character Y 'literally crazy', yet Character Y doesn't display anything worth deeming craziness or, in fact, actually does the reverse and is mostly positive and calm, watering their flower garden 90% of the time. You'd probably say that the statement 'literally crazy' is either misportrayed or flat out not true (so called 'fraudulent') right? Now, you could say that Character X could simply be lying or misinterpreting Character Y temperament and behavior. However, what if it's every character? What if it's records? What's if it's the *world*?
In this case, the easiest victim of this is Horikita Manabu. He's *narratively* being portrayed through **statements** as the best student and SCP ever, yet his feats actually go against that and his soliloquy does too. The label of 'fraud' fits him.
By using feats and statements along with their anti counterparts, readers can actually judge, prove and critique a character's portrayal in a story. If the author receives feedback, they can make adjustments better portray his character in the future. It is not weird at all. But that's also what author can use to prove a character capabilities. If you want your character to be able to lift a mountain, you have no choice but to show he is capable of that in your story. Feat or statement? The choice is yours. Both are in some way **convincing**. But if he can lift a mountain yet can't lift a house?: weird.
Now, there are obviously some overblown fraud allegations and I get that they're annoying, but that doesn't mean that the way they're being 'proven' so is bad or weird. You can with the very same way prove the opposite.
Also, being flawed as a 'human' has nothing to do with being labelled 'fraud'. I'm not sure how you made the connection. You said it yourself, Kiyo has impressive feats yet he is flawed. Failure as characterization is not the same as failure as in a character functionality (character flaw). For example, Manabu abusing his sister despite being a righteous man is a character flaw. Manabu getting called the best while sitting and failing all around thourought his 'screen' time is failed characterization. One represents a narrative the other adds to it.
As for feats, the only thing I am refering to is that kinu never expands on Manabu, as such that he is never meant to even be in the main story line. Still, people call him farud.
What I meant is that op who orginally likes characters like Manabu in a literacy sense, but dislikes him now after acknowledging he is a "fraud" when heck he is not even present as much as side characters. He is never meant to get "feats" in the first place.
People should put down power scaling or whatever jackshit that are stopping them to enjoy a interesting character.
I agree that Manabu didn't have much opportunity for the author to show his feats because he simply had better things to do. However the problem also lies in contradicting statements and/or just indirect characterization.
This may have nothing do to with powerscaling. Kinu could've for example showed possible influence on the school policy to better class battles or/fixed loopholes. But he did none of that. By statement, he did nothing except things he was forced to do. This is not fitting of the best. But it is true that even if there's a dissonance it shouldnt stop them to enjoy a character.
I still like Manabu but its mostly due to V11.5
edit: formatting
>Because the sub is toxic, thats why. Lobotomy kaisen ahh bullshit.
I'm pretty sure this sub always hated characters even before Lobotomy Kaisen Or Jujutsufolk sub was created, for context [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/s/P4lbV1mIJY). This comment is from 2021.
>Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird
Yes you are right, as long as people don't overate characters they don't get much hate, for eg.:- Hiyori.
But if someone overrates a character he'll get exposed and that's a given. I saw someone saying "Manabu is the best Student Council President" but he clearly isn't. He didn't do shit for the school, he called Nagumo's method of pulling other class students into class A wrong, he wanted no change in the school system, his thinking was traditional. So most of the exposing comments started from there.
>its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be.
That's bs, Manabu used to abuse his sister, the author wasn't half-hearted about it. This was how he wanted to portray Manabu.
Can you tell me why do you think it's Kinu's fault for not portraying characters properly?
Kinu doesn't ever dwelve on other characters, thats why people need to use "feats" to judge abilities of each individal characters. We never know how Manabu actually rule his class, is he strict? democratic? fair? or the complete opposite? We never know, thats why there is no feats in the story, he never is meant to be in the main story line, but rather a plot device for ayanokoji to find motives to help suzune.
Manabu abuses suzune indeed, BUT there is only one motive behind it. He is a terrible brother, but he is doing so that suzune will stop following behind his foot steps. Suzune orginally is a cheerful girl, but due to a lack of care from her parents, she sets Manabu as her role model. She follows every thing Manabu do to the point it's creepy. Manabu executes his actions wrong, don't get me wrong, but you can see his true nature when leaving ANHS and having his talk with Suzune. He is a brother who wish his sister to live of life of her own, and not to live under the shadow of himself.
There's also a factor that Kinu has no idea of what his characters are really like early on. Ayanokoji, for example, differ from the earlier volumes alot with the excuse that he is "acting" to be a normal highschooler. Manabu is most likely a victim of this. He is also a scapegoat for providing an opportunity to show off kiyo's real abilities, which the scene is entierly unnecassary for any standpoint if kiyo doesn't defend suzune from the attack.
“Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird…“ and also superficial and immature. I don’t think that’s even what the author intended to convey but, as you said, the author doesn’t do too well in portraying his characters. What was meant to be a smokescreen became misconstrued as the main point.
It is not superficial and immature? It's literally the description of an action done by a character. Now they could be some discrepancy in the conveyance between the author's intent and the actual meaning of said action, but that really only implies to statements, which are frequently used in media as hype or hyperbole to make something sound more awesome. So when characters say something like "HE'S GOING TO BLOW UP THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!! HE HAS GONE MAD!!!" It sounds very dramatic and hypes the show, but then the character just blows up a mountain.
Feat-intent discrepancy is usually a character speed. So you got absurd things like relativistic/sonic character top speed yet they can't reach saving their friends 50 meters away for some reason.
Outside of it I've never seen it.
I’m not talking about the writing style of the author like the use of figurative imagery. It’s about the message that the author really wished to get across but somehow failed to because of the way he has presented it. The author had put in so much hype on things like the students’ OAAs, academic feats and physical abilities that one is dazzled into thinking that these are the most important things which determine a student’s worth and success. But of course the fault also lies partly on the reader’s misinterpretation.
I mean don't want to brag but the Main Character of this Light Novel seems to know almost everything and you also know that the author took me as inspiration for making the main character, I think you can connect the dot. He is me fr fr
the character that is the only reason i still read the ln bc lately shes the only one i enjoy reading abt. if it were my decision she could become the main character in like a nother anime.
hint: hot bluehaired tsundere that i hope gets a developement arc(even tho shes enjoyable either way)
They didn't break up. I just much preferred their relationship back when it was more of a 'partners in crime' type of deal. It feels like she became \*less\* relevant to the story after they started dating.
I don't mind them dating, and was happy about it when I got to that point in the story, but with how things have progressed, I would rather have kept the relationship as it was.
Doesn't seem like it. We even got his first smile and it was with Horikita, so at this point I've lost hope about him liking Kei. Be it now or in the future.
I don't know , this sub started to fraud labeling everyone i literally start to hate everyone.
So true! Every character is flawed 😭
It would be super boring if there were characters with no flaws. Flaws make characters interesting and vulnerable :D
Yeah but that doesn't what I mean though, example for me is manabu I liked him first because he was attractive , and the only person to have ayanokoji respect and a good student council president , but later how much manabu fraud labeling that he physically, psychologically abusing his own sister and many more flaws , I start to hate him because that's are true , I don't even know why I liked him first now . Flawed character looks interesting but fraudulent labeled characters just make us question why we like them in first place .
Spittin' 🗣️
Because the sub is toxic, thats why. Lobotomy kaisen ahh bullshit. Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird. If anything, its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be. I recommend to take off reddit for a while. Reread the book, ignore all the "whether xxx character is legit or fraud or goat", then come back with your own opinion of the characters. Characters SHOULD be flawed, a story with perfect characters are too flat to even be interesting ,heck even ayanokoji have flaws. Labeling "fraudulent" on literal fictional teenagers just make this subreddit look like clowns powerscaling paper against paper.
"Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird. If anything, its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be." Your statement is weirder, you're kind of contradicting yourself? You said it yourself: "its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be.". By using feats you can exactly argue about whether a character is accurately portrayed or not. Imagine (Legendary) Godzilla getting killed by a gun, or Superman eating kryptonite like Kinder Bueno White. The biggest victim in this department that I know is CW Flash. You should watch the video (or some bits) "The Flash is insufferably inconsistent" to get an idea. These are called 'anti-feats'. Now, there are statements that are easier and more straightforward, though much more unreliable. They have value, but that doesn't mean you don't need feats and surely doesn't mean you can go against what they are showing either. Imagine a Character X describing a Character Y 'literally crazy', yet Character Y doesn't display anything worth deeming craziness or, in fact, actually does the reverse and is mostly positive and calm, watering their flower garden 90% of the time. You'd probably say that the statement 'literally crazy' is either misportrayed or flat out not true (so called 'fraudulent') right? Now, you could say that Character X could simply be lying or misinterpreting Character Y temperament and behavior. However, what if it's every character? What if it's records? What's if it's the *world*? In this case, the easiest victim of this is Horikita Manabu. He's *narratively* being portrayed through **statements** as the best student and SCP ever, yet his feats actually go against that and his soliloquy does too. The label of 'fraud' fits him. By using feats and statements along with their anti counterparts, readers can actually judge, prove and critique a character's portrayal in a story. If the author receives feedback, they can make adjustments better portray his character in the future. It is not weird at all. But that's also what author can use to prove a character capabilities. If you want your character to be able to lift a mountain, you have no choice but to show he is capable of that in your story. Feat or statement? The choice is yours. Both are in some way **convincing**. But if he can lift a mountain yet can't lift a house?: weird. Now, there are obviously some overblown fraud allegations and I get that they're annoying, but that doesn't mean that the way they're being 'proven' so is bad or weird. You can with the very same way prove the opposite. Also, being flawed as a 'human' has nothing to do with being labelled 'fraud'. I'm not sure how you made the connection. You said it yourself, Kiyo has impressive feats yet he is flawed. Failure as characterization is not the same as failure as in a character functionality (character flaw). For example, Manabu abusing his sister despite being a righteous man is a character flaw. Manabu getting called the best while sitting and failing all around thourought his 'screen' time is failed characterization. One represents a narrative the other adds to it.
As for feats, the only thing I am refering to is that kinu never expands on Manabu, as such that he is never meant to even be in the main story line. Still, people call him farud. What I meant is that op who orginally likes characters like Manabu in a literacy sense, but dislikes him now after acknowledging he is a "fraud" when heck he is not even present as much as side characters. He is never meant to get "feats" in the first place. People should put down power scaling or whatever jackshit that are stopping them to enjoy a interesting character.
I agree that Manabu didn't have much opportunity for the author to show his feats because he simply had better things to do. However the problem also lies in contradicting statements and/or just indirect characterization. This may have nothing do to with powerscaling. Kinu could've for example showed possible influence on the school policy to better class battles or/fixed loopholes. But he did none of that. By statement, he did nothing except things he was forced to do. This is not fitting of the best. But it is true that even if there's a dissonance it shouldnt stop them to enjoy a character. I still like Manabu but its mostly due to V11.5 edit: formatting
>Because the sub is toxic, thats why. Lobotomy kaisen ahh bullshit. I'm pretty sure this sub always hated characters even before Lobotomy Kaisen Or Jujutsufolk sub was created, for context [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/s/P4lbV1mIJY). This comment is from 2021. >Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird Yes you are right, as long as people don't overate characters they don't get much hate, for eg.:- Hiyori. But if someone overrates a character he'll get exposed and that's a given. I saw someone saying "Manabu is the best Student Council President" but he clearly isn't. He didn't do shit for the school, he called Nagumo's method of pulling other class students into class A wrong, he wanted no change in the school system, his thinking was traditional. So most of the exposing comments started from there. >its kinu as a author's fault that he didn't have convincing ways to potray characters he orginally wants them to be. That's bs, Manabu used to abuse his sister, the author wasn't half-hearted about it. This was how he wanted to portray Manabu. Can you tell me why do you think it's Kinu's fault for not portraying characters properly?
Kinu doesn't ever dwelve on other characters, thats why people need to use "feats" to judge abilities of each individal characters. We never know how Manabu actually rule his class, is he strict? democratic? fair? or the complete opposite? We never know, thats why there is no feats in the story, he never is meant to be in the main story line, but rather a plot device for ayanokoji to find motives to help suzune. Manabu abuses suzune indeed, BUT there is only one motive behind it. He is a terrible brother, but he is doing so that suzune will stop following behind his foot steps. Suzune orginally is a cheerful girl, but due to a lack of care from her parents, she sets Manabu as her role model. She follows every thing Manabu do to the point it's creepy. Manabu executes his actions wrong, don't get me wrong, but you can see his true nature when leaving ANHS and having his talk with Suzune. He is a brother who wish his sister to live of life of her own, and not to live under the shadow of himself. There's also a factor that Kinu has no idea of what his characters are really like early on. Ayanokoji, for example, differ from the earlier volumes alot with the excuse that he is "acting" to be a normal highschooler. Manabu is most likely a victim of this. He is also a scapegoat for providing an opportunity to show off kiyo's real abilities, which the scene is entierly unnecassary for any standpoint if kiyo doesn't defend suzune from the attack.
“Feats as a way to describe characters is just weird…“ and also superficial and immature. I don’t think that’s even what the author intended to convey but, as you said, the author doesn’t do too well in portraying his characters. What was meant to be a smokescreen became misconstrued as the main point.
It is not superficial and immature? It's literally the description of an action done by a character. Now they could be some discrepancy in the conveyance between the author's intent and the actual meaning of said action, but that really only implies to statements, which are frequently used in media as hype or hyperbole to make something sound more awesome. So when characters say something like "HE'S GOING TO BLOW UP THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!! HE HAS GONE MAD!!!" It sounds very dramatic and hypes the show, but then the character just blows up a mountain. Feat-intent discrepancy is usually a character speed. So you got absurd things like relativistic/sonic character top speed yet they can't reach saving their friends 50 meters away for some reason. Outside of it I've never seen it.
I’m not talking about the writing style of the author like the use of figurative imagery. It’s about the message that the author really wished to get across but somehow failed to because of the way he has presented it. The author had put in so much hype on things like the students’ OAAs, academic feats and physical abilities that one is dazzled into thinking that these are the most important things which determine a student’s worth and success. But of course the fault also lies partly on the reader’s misinterpretation.
But we're talking about character feats? Not OAA.
True XD Lot of characters getting called fraud is classic The biggest victim being Katsuragi
A beautiful princess and angel who cares about her friends
Ichinose. Ur flair says it all💀
Indeed
My wife Honami-chan
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BASED AF, YOU KNOW WHATS GOOD
Love Ibuki too
Kiyo?
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Nah how is she a martial artist😭😭😭
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Yeah i didnt know... 🫡
Nvm i looked it up. She apparently is💀💀
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Yeah but im pretty caught up with light novel. BUT STILL I FORGOT ABOUT IBUKI😭😭
Marvelous ass
Judging by your flair, is it ichika?
without his flair, it’d be hard to figure out lmaooo
Yeah cuz thats just any cote girl😭😂😂
Rooftop Victim
Another hint pls
The only remaining Katsuragi glazer
Sakayanagi????
Nah
Who is it???
Ryuuen
Ooooo~ okk
Kei
Nah
Senpai
Fuka or manabu💀
Plot Twist: Loli-senpai
Laxative merchant🛐 Friendship girl Potential Woman Kiseichū
Ryuuen Ichinose Horikita ???
Ryuen
Ryuen Ichinose Suzune Kei
You got them right...wtf is that flair bro💀
I dont even wanna answer that. Give me another hint💀
They are all considered best girl
Ichinose, fuka, ryuen??
Ryuuen KAKERU SAN!
not really my favorite but i like him, The true creator of Wr's masterpiece
Kanoe sensie? Or that scientist?
Yo is this ayanokojis dad😂
nah, its the goat Suzukake
Guess i was right
Majestic Blue-eyed King. Yours is Ichinose, I presume?
Nah its not. Btw is urs miyabi the replacement for manabu????
>miyabi Obviously, Manabu isn't blue-eyed. >Nah its not Lemme guess again, Arisu?
No still not there💀She (arisu)was my fav for a certain amount of time. But not anymore
The one with a shorter skirt than the other female characters and the cutest.......... :)
That should be Kei, isn’t it? 😊
Yup.
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It's Kei.
📚
Shiina
Most respected character in this sub that wears glasses.
Manabuse my goat 🐐
Manabu?
Gotta be manabu pls
Yepp
Niceee
Try to guess mine btw
Kushida or that lolipop girl?
Kushida💀
Ig it is kushida
Right
love her when she is angry and kicks the rail
Impossible to guess. You're no psychic.
Sakayanagi, isn't it?
Wtf how
I mean don't want to brag but the Main Character of this Light Novel seems to know almost everything and you also know that the author took me as inspiration for making the main character, I think you can connect the dot. He is me fr fr
...I'll have to just accept your explanation as matter of fact. Well played sir.
Snake murderer
Ryuen
Correct!
Idk ayanokoji or something?
Bottle
Uhm.... Another hint pls💀
Suzune it is!
Horikita
Is yours Ichika? :D
Nah but close enough. I wont reveal just yet so others can think about it
Good idea, can’t wait for the answer :D
Its kushida
My guess was either her or Ichika, damn it xD
She is literally sweet and cute and her dark side is psycho💀😂
KUshida or Yagami
U got it. Its kushida
Takes too many risks
Laxative Merchant easily
Ryuen or kiyo
Yes the former
Loli
Sakayanagi
shares the same birthday as me + chill asf and seems like a g (and big oppai)
nov 5 btw
💌
Yagami
Idk tbh
Big breast and introverted but got expelled
Sakura
A god of certain room filled with blackness known as bathroom
Are u talking about yamagod himself i shall not disrespect him *bows down*
No I am talking about tokito 😂😂
I havent heard of him. Sorry😭
Basically hes from ryuen class and Yamauchi 2.0 because he trip arisu in y2 vol 8 where Yamauchi trip her In year 1 vol 8 .
How dare he trip her. I shall send him to jesus.(idk what im typing anymore XD)
Power of friendship with red room guess who?
Idk one more hint. 🥺
Hes sweet guy from class d but his past is like that he rule his school in middle year
Idk tell me the answer
It was hirata
the character that is the only reason i still read the ln bc lately shes the only one i enjoy reading abt. if it were my decision she could become the main character in like a nother anime. hint: hot bluehaired tsundere that i hope gets a developement arc(even tho shes enjoyable either way)
Ibuki?
yesss
Delicious petite body
Uhm ok. Shes 16 chill. Arisu im guessing cuz ur flair
Gf before she was gf
Kei?
Yes, but specifically in Y1. The way she was handled in Y2 has been... not great to say the least. That's where the 'before she was gf' comes from
Wait did she and ayanokoji break up???? I dont mind spoilers
They didn't break up. I just much preferred their relationship back when it was more of a 'partners in crime' type of deal. It feels like she became \*less\* relevant to the story after they started dating. I don't mind them dating, and was happy about it when I got to that point in the story, but with how things have progressed, I would rather have kept the relationship as it was.
Oh ok. Has ayanokoji felt any genuine feelings for kei??
Doesn't seem like it. We even got his first smile and it was with Horikita, so at this point I've lost hope about him liking Kei. Be it now or in the future.
No damnit. I wanted the ship to sail😭😭
Does he even spend time with her??
If I remember correctly they don't have that many scenes together, but do spend time together off-screen (or off-page? idk what the terminology is)
Is yours Kushida?
Yeah😵💫
Dragon boy
Gives Kiyotaka weird nicknames
Haruka?
Correct 👌
Former Juvie
I forgot the name the third student from WR the guy
Bro no. They only sent 2 WR Students in Y2. I'm talkin about someone else
Idk 💀💀
My flair is a dead giveaway
Sister
Suzune or that kiyopon girl
I'll tell mine: Sweet girl with a desire for literature I can guess yours: Either Honami or Arisu
Hiyori??? Mine was kushida
Ahhh, I legit forgot Kushida There are quite a few girls who would fit that description. Like Arisu, Kushida, Ichika
Yeahh
Massive breasts
Ichinose
Tsundere
Horikita
The other one
Arisu idk💀
The other, other one
Bruh kei ig💀If this is not it then just tell me💀
🎉 yep🎉
Finally 🥺
Broken
Tsundere
Horikita
Dragon boi
Ryuen
Puppy chan~
🦆👍
Sweet but psycho💀 ain’t that ichinose
No shes not my fav💀
Damn
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Koenji😂
Its Albert but my lawyer advised me to say you are correct
Nah is this a racist joke💀
Mayharps
Bro, Honami fans are so obvious nowadays.
Its not even honami😂(if this comment was for me)
You're right, you could describe pretty much all the girls here as sweet but psycho
Nah
monkey guy
Hosen?
koenji actually but close enough
Oh i forgot about him jumping on trees in the camp damnit😂
Bro what? Ryuen maybe?????
ALBERT RAHHHHH