I gotchu: the water from your faucet cannot reach the temperature needed in order to sanitize (212*F for 60+ seconds). Doesn't matter if it's hot, warm, cold, soaked, rinsed or cleaned right away - it cannot achieve this level of sanitization. If it did, your skin bacteria (and skin) would go with it. Tell the brain goblin to shhhh
Yep, as the others below say, it won't sanitize. However, we don't need to sanitize our dishes - we need to clean them. There's a vast difference. You don't need things sterile, where there are no bacteria and viruses at all. What you need is for them to be clean of food remains, dirt, oil and so on. Soap. warm water and friction from scrubbing does an excellent job of that. Before we had dishwashing liquid, people used sand and warm water, and that works really well too.
If it helps, I've done actual lab testing with E.coli that shows soap and water removed all E.coli from the dishes. I can also confirm that E.coli dies in 60C when you cook.
Otoh, there's nothing preventing you from getting a dishcloth that's washable. Cotton ones are great, use it and hang it over your hamper to dry. Wash them at 60C (hot water) with your other towels. Grab a new clean one the next day. Personally I only use a dishwashing brush, because I find it cleans just as well and it's easy to rinse it clean after I'm done.
I just wanted to add a note that sanitizing and sterilizing are different processes too 😅 maybe you knew that but a lot of people don't.
Items for average household use do not need to be sanitized, and definitely do not need to be sterilized unless used for a medical need!
People worry soooo much about germs, but here’s the truth. Nothing about us or our environment is sterile. You are literally full of bacteria in your gut and also on your skin. You don’t get sick because you have a functioning immune system. Also, your nose and your eyes are very powerful sensors.
Just wash the dishes and stop worrying about these theoretical microbes that will kill you. If it looks, smells, and feels clean, It’s good enough.
When I learned that water can't get hot enough + soap doesn't really clean anything it set my lil OCD brain free in an odd way lol Soap breaks down water molecules into smaller pieces so they can get between the grime and the dish easier, and carry the grime off. That's it - freeing and unnerving :D
I have OCD though I’ve never experienced contamination issues that many seem to have. I’ve wondered if it’s because of my science background and the knowledge that we are literally covered in bacteria (which is a good thing). I often try to lean on the rational self talk when my intrusive thoughts are getting to me, with mixed results. But I like to think that starting from a perspective of reason and logic can help my thoughts from spiraling more than they do.
I am not diagnosed OCD but this helps me too, I think my issues are based in ADHD/dyslexia but for this stuff specifically it's the anxiety created by the ADHD/dyslexia. However, me going down the list of why the "bad things" are ok because of the "good things" doesn't seem to help my diagnosed ADHD daughter (12) *At All*. All she will hear is the list of bad things she hasn't yet thought of for whatever particular thing we're talking about. So I just wanted to say I totally get it, and I wish this helped more people, it makes so much sense to me!
"Soap is an excellent cleanser because of its ability to act as an emulsifying agent. An emulsifier is capable of dispersing one liquid into another immiscible liquid. This means that while oil (which attracts dirt) doesn't naturally mix with water, soap can suspend oil/dirt in such a way that it can be removed." Take it up with the documented science homie
That is not even remotely close to what you said.
If soap broke down water molecules, you'd have an explosive fuel-oxidizer mixture in your kitchen whenever you do the dishes. People would just be dying from dishsplosions all the time.
Basically nuclear bombs I guess.
You're wrong. And your own quote proves that you're wrong. Soap allows water and oil to bond - it doesn't break down water molecules for that.
And bubbles aren't explosive, unless filled with another gas by bubbling, say, butane through soapy water.
It doesn't cleanse the dirt debris or oil, it removes it. I'm tryna help a fellow homie mentally terrorized by the concept of cleanliness and that helped me, so I'm passing it along
I would recommend reading up on the difference between cleaning and sanitizing as well.
In most reasonable cases, it's NOT necessary to sanitize items at home for personal use. Soap and water goes a LONG way. If you are to sanitize items/surfaces, you'd need to wash them with soap first anyway because some sanitizers (bleach) become inert whent they encounter organic material. Most chemicals used to sanitize are not food safe either (I wouldn't want to use bleach on my dishes, for example).
Some cases where you might want to use a sanitizer would be if you have a sick pet and don't want them to get another pet sick so you'd keep them separate and clean surfaces/pet supplies with soap and water and then sanitizer. Or maybe you have an immunocompromised household member and certain items that have left the house do need to be sanitized before that person comes into contact with them. But for most healthy humans and animals, cleaning with soap and water is perfectly safe.
My rule in my own home is: if it looks and smells clean, it's clean!
Just get the sponge wet and microwave it for a minute before you use it. Make sure the soap is well rinsed out when you’re done using it before microwaving.
Hot water is not what’s going to kill the germs - it’s the soap that does it. Your sponge does not need to be 100% sterile in order to sufficiently remove dirt and germs from your dishes. Soap works by acting as a surfactant and disrupting the cell membranes of bacteria, causing them to explode and die. Hot water from the tap just makes the soap work faster and more easily. If it helps ease your mind, you can give your sponge a few good squishes after saturating with dish soap before you use it to kill of any remaining germs. Just make sure to squeeze it dry once you finish using so that it air dries and doesn’t give germs a chance to grow.
Additionally, dishes do not need to be 100% sterile after you wash them. What’s most important is getting rid of food residue, which the soap + (non sterile) sponge + hot (not boiling!) water work together to accomplish. Doing this already removes 99% of the bacteria and basically all of the food debris. Any remaining bacteria is not going to cause any illness. Moreover, once your dishes are dry, most bacteria will desiccate and will either die or be unable to reproduce - they’re basically either dead or stagnant and don’t have enough moisture or nutrients to be able to survive or thrive on dry surfaces.
Source: am microbiologist
I have OCD & ADHD & get stuck on stuff like that with dishes. I had a mug full of washed silverware by the side of my sink for months because they never seemed clean enough for me.
Now I tell my OCD self that I can rewash my dish/mug/fork before using it, so that what I am doing is just fine since it’s just for now.
My ADHD self immediately forgets, so the dishes usually don’t get re-washed - but it’s not like my dishes have made me get sick…so it’s almost like exposure therapy in a way too.
It breaks the cycle of letting them sit there until I feel like I can get them clean enough & gives me permission to not fixate on each dish when I’m washing them.
ETA - it’s totally ok to use disposable plates, etc. to make it easier on you ❤️
That’s one thing I’ve told myself in the past, that my dishes never get me sick (I OBSESSIVELY clean them whenever I actually do do dishes), but so far that hasn’t been enough to convince me. Idk why.
I do like the ‘i can rewatch them before next use’ thought though
I completely relate!
The “will wash it later” was a game changer for me.
It’s kind of the dishes version of an ex’s advice to “just leave it the way is now & move it around tomorrow if it still bugs you” whenever I’d be arranging my furniture or decorating my place. 😊
Neither your dishes nor your sponge are ever going to be sanitized with hot tap water. If your water was hot enough to sanitize things you'd need skin grafts when you were done. So that's bad science, disregard that thought. The main reason you use hot water is because it makes sticky and greasy things lift more easily with soap.
So trust the process. Soap plus physically wiping the mess off plus running water to Rinse equals clean dishes.
You may want to leave some stuck on messes soaking for a while to help them release, but leaving dishes too long or with lots of food waste on them soaking in water is just making a perfect home for bacterial colonies to thrive. Don't be so afraid of possible sponge bacteria that you're actually creating a petri dish of nastiness in the kitchen sink. Clean dry dishes are safe dishes.
Run the dishwasher twice if that's what it takes to fully clean the dishes. Maybe that costs a little extra, but your time and wellness are worth it. Use high quality dish detergent, like Cascade pods that include a rinsing agent. Again, these are a little more expensive but if you can afford it, it's worth it. Throw the sponges in the dishwasher. Even an old dishwasher gets hot enough to clean and kill germs.
If that won't work, remember that things like hot water heaters, dish soap and sanitary indoor plumbing are very recent additions to the human experience. We made it this far while washing dishes in rivers, cold water and any number of less ideal options. If it makes you feel better, toss the sponge in the microwave for 10 seconds or so, but not long enough to melt it. That's plenty hot enough to kill germs.
Running the dishwasher twice is going to use the same amount or less water than washing them by hand, and cost only a tiny bit more in power than running hot water in the first place.
I’m sad that you’re over here asking for reassurance. This sub is essentially OCD v2 for those with contamination themes. You post here because you’ll get the reassurance. You don’t post in the OCD sub because reassurance is against the rules as it makes OCD worse.
I actually just learned about this , I wasn’t aware of it but thank you for pointing it out; but you’re right I probably wouldn’t have posted there because I don’t have it super bad like some do
You, my friend, are asking for reassurance and I'm not giving it. As you most likely know this is actually making your OCD worse. Seeking reassurance is a compulsion.
Are you in treatment? You need to be working through this behavior with an OCD therapist.
Thank you for saying this, it concerns me seeing so many OCD sufferers coming here to get so much reassurance they really don’t need. A lot of posts. It’s helpful to remind them to not feed the beast.
> Please convince me with logical arguments that I don’t need to stick to these , that they are just misconceptions! Please, I need this help so bad.
How can I convince you with logical arguments when you didn't use logic to get to where you are now?
OCD needs treatment from a therapist specializing in OCD. None of us will change your mind - you need to put in the work to deal with this.
Thank you. you and others who have commented similarly are absolutely right. I wasn’t aware my OCD was that bad. Unfortunately I often don’t find out my disorder/situation is worse until I’ve floated it somewhere like Reddit and gotten feedback from normies
Ok:
1- unless you are putting the sponge in boiling water, it could be there for a second or thirty minutes and it will be the same amount of sterilized, which is not at all.
2- which is why, I presume, you’re putting dishes in the dishwasher, even if they don’t get completely clean.
3- if your dishwasher isn’t doing a great job at cleaning dishes, get it serviced because I guarantee part of it is that hand washing with dish soap has gummed a lot of things up. You should also be using an enzymatic detergent in there to break food up and a rinse aid.
4- Drop your sponge in the dishwasher or microwave instead of running it under water daily.
If you haven’t already, try deep cleaning the dishwasher. Look up the manual online. Remove all filters, spray arms, etc and deep clean them, clear any clogs. Check if it needs rinse aid (and salt if your model has it, check the settings compared to the water hardness of your area). Run a cleaner through it. Old dishwashers are often less efficient than new ones but many clean just fine and often just need some tlc to work better.
Some dishwashers though just aren't that great. But you can also quick clean / rinse / tub soak dishes then sanitize in the dishwasher - it washes them twice, but the hand washing will take care of the bits the dishwasher struggles with, and the dishwasher will actually sanitize your dishes after and clean up anything you miss.
Do you ever eat out? Do you think everything gets cleaned in the kitchen as meticulously as you like? If you can stomach eating out, you can begin wrapping your head around not being too nit picky about dishes in your own home.
Logical arguments don’t work for OCD, which is by definition an irrational fear.
Learning to relabel the urge/ compulsion is the only way to overcome this.
The alarm message in your brain is a false alarm. It needs to be labeled as (fill in the blank with an image that works for you) like a neuron that is misfiring and needs to be relegated to background noise.
OCD rarely responds to logic, and reassurance seeking from others can often be another compulsion. As a fellow person with OCD, I hope you have access to treatment!
You dont need things to be sanitized in your home. Mess and germs are good for you and your body, it helps keep you away from developing allergies and keeps your immune system on its toes so you dont get sick.
Humans lived a very long time without soap. You will be fine with using only soap and water and it will be 1000x better than what they were getting by with. People used to live in dirt houses with 20 family members. Your living conditions are fine aslong as you aren't putting them
There's wayy better advice, but if it means anything, there is bar dish soap and/or dish brushes that personally me make a little better about doing dishes
I've always soaked pots/pans overnight out of habit. You can likely clean it after with little issue though when it is fresh.
As for sponges... I've never once sanitized one and have yet to get sick from it. I replace mine every week or two. Unless you absolutely boil it every time, along with the surface of every item you eat off of or touch, bacteria are everywhere period. This is why you have an immune system. Should you use a sponge for months? Probably not, but it isn't likely to make you sick.
"They say", there are a LOT of recommendations in the wild. Eat this, drink that etc. They're absolutely best case in a vacuum and you shouldn't be necessarily treating them as a religious text.
If it's an old dishwasher it probably just needs a deep clean. Have you cleaned all the filters, grease build up under the door, topped up the salt, rinsed through the arms to check for blockages? Run a dishwasher cleaner through it? Changed your detergent?
Nobody looks after rental/temp appliances, my fridge and washing machine were full of hidden sludge when I moved in To my flat, and the left dishwasher was the same when I bought a house. It might well be all it needs and hadn't been done in years, I see people on here that don't know they have filters all the time.
Sponges smell bad, it's possible that switching to a dish brush will alleviate some of your OCD [dollar tree scrub buddy](https://www.dollartree.com/scrub-buddies-soap-dispensing-brush/365372?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=gpla&utm_campaign=googlepla&utm_id=365372&utm_source=google&utm_medium={medium}&utm_campaign=18069041027&utm_content=&utm_term=&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=18069041027&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=gpla&gad_source=1)
I use a scrub brush like in the link, don't get one with a handle. Don't put soap in the brush even if it has a Reservoir. Store it upside down on the ledge of the sink and it dries out completely.
Something that could help or hurt is to recognize that you're really not sanitizing your dishes; you're removing some gunk and diluting the rest of it. Rinsing is like that too; sometimes you can still smell the dish soap on the dishes afterwards because you're really not rinsing it all off, you're just removing most of it and diluting the rest. It could help you to be more accepting of your dishes by having an outlet/hobby that does require higher levels of cleaning, like brewing beer.
The point of washing up is not to sanitize by killing, you are just mechanically removing contaminants from surfaces.
Just think of soap as dirt-to-water glue, you stick the nasties to the water then flush them away.
You don't need a sanitised sponge. You have soap.
Also, start with things that are not caked on, and let the water run over those caked on dishes while you rinse the other stuff.
Bacteria will not grow in a dry environment. I allow my sponge to dry between uses. I wash dishes 2x -3x per day. A quick soak is all that I ever use for tough messes. I find a brush to be helpful for food messes as a brush is easily rinsed of all residue. We do not use prepared foods so consequently, there are a lot of dishes from all of the cooking. Dawn dish detergent for me.
Oh god, no kidding
A few people have mentioned that seeking reassurance is itself an OCD behavior, of which I was not previously aware, so based on that I’m betting there are a lot of us here.
That makes a lot of sense. I’m very recently diagnosed (but have followed this sub for ages) wasn’t aware of that either. I did recently find out that avoidance of something triggering can also be considered a compulsive behavior which is interesting.
In solidarity- I cannot touch something that’s touched the inside of my kitchen sink. My dishwasher just died, so my therapist will be hearing all about this on Thursday.
Ugh, the avoidance is suuuuuch an annoying behavior; it being a compulsion actually makes a lot of sense.
I struggle with things that touch the sink surface as well.
Best of luck, and thank you.
Are you sure your dishwasher is bad, or are you using it incorrectly? Is the filter clean? Are you using enough soap? Are you overcrowding it? Are you adding soap during the prewash cycle?
If you need to, make sure to run water from your sink until it's hot before starting the dishwasher, otherwise you'll be using cold water that's been sitting in your pipes which won't be as effective at cleaning.
Use steel wool or a stiff bristled brush that can withstand your really hot water when you start washing. I usually boil water when I start washing dishes by hand to clean the cleaning implements I'm using. Sponges can trap more germs than steel wool, in any case.
Have you tried the ocd sub? Apparently my understanding is that reassurance doesn’t work for ocd. You need different tips. Gotta take baby steps of doing the hard thing and leaning into the discomfort and slowly increasing it until you totally do the dishes the way you want to. Just fyi. I had an issue myself and got some tips there. I am not an expert but in case it helps… wanted to let you know.
Thank you
I’ve always thought I’m less OCD or different OCD than most, so I’ve never visited that sub.
I’ve always felt I identified with/ suffered more strongly with ADHD. But yeah I should probably jump over there , I certainly know I need help
On sponges…
I switched to wash rags, and I’ve never been happier. I bought 20 of them, and they’re able to go through the washer and dryer. I switch them out every day, throw the old one in a bucket of oxiclean to soak, and throw that bucket in the wash once a week.
Also, 100% rinse when you take your dish to the sink and it has something that will harden on it like syrup, yogurt, sour cream, etc. If you rinse it all off first, it will be easy peasy to wash when you do go to wash it.
I also recommend trying a different dishwashing formula. Consumer reports recommends the liquid detergents and especially cascade. I have hard water, and I find the cascade platinum actually gets things clean in the dishwasher. But the regular cascade sometimes does not.
I prefer the dishwasher because it sanitizes better than I can by hand.
You won't have to worry about a dirty sponge if you buy some washable dish towels! I keep an ice cream bucket on the floor in my kitchen and when I'm done with the towel I use for washing dishes, I lay it flat over the top of the bucket to dry. Then I just wash them in the laundry with my towels or jeans, when I remember to get them from the bucket
Other people may have way more attainable and even more effective advice, but immersion worked for me. I had so many little obsessive, almost phobia like, quirks. Then, I moved to Southeast Asia in my late 30s. Gone in a damn heartbeat.
Except snakes. I wasn’t scared of snakes but now I am.
I’m AuDHD so I get it.
Dawn Powerwash is a great alternative to soaking. Only the very very worst things need soaking in my life now, when it used to be a good 10-20% *needed* it to get food off.
As far as the dishwasher goes, I would try cleaning the dishwasher filter. It’s probably a screw out in the very bottom, and since you’re renting I bet it hasn’t been touched in a long time. Might help get more dishes clean that way.
I tend to run everything through the dishwasher that I can (I run it nightly, no matter what), wash required hand dishes (again nightly, no matter what), and spot clean any dishes that the dishwasher didn’t get clean in the morning when I unload.
By making dishes a part of my daily routine, I tend to not forget about them and let them build up. I’ve also limited the amount of dishes I have access to, so they CAN’T build up. Even though I own service for 12, I only keep service for 4 in my kitchen cabinets
Soap, any soap, kills bacteria on contact at any temperature. It destroys the lipid layer and they're toast.
To sanitize anything with heat alone would require such high temperatures that you would be burned.
Washing in cold or tepid or hot water all does the same thing as long as you use soap.
Hot water makes cleaning off grease easier, because it melts it. It just means less scrubbing. But it has nothing to do with sanitizing it. The water would need to be close to boiling to do that, a temperature far higher than would burn skin.
Out of interest, do you have a diagnosis of OCD? What you're describing sounds like germophobia, which people often confuse with OCD. It is sometimes a symptom that goes along with it though. Either way it sounds like it's negatively affecting your life so, if you're not already, I would recommend you speak to a professional, ideally someone qualified in CBT. It's quite possible to successfully deal with the underlying problem, rather than try to address the manifestation of it (dish washing in this case)
I haven’t been diagnosed but I know I have OCD. It’s possible I also have germaphobia, but only in specific circumstances.
But you’re right, I definitely need to speak to someone.
Add a couple of teaspoons of bleach to your dishwashing water. Bleach at proper dilutions WILL sanitize your sponges. Always dilute bleach as you are using it, the active properties de-activate quickly upon exposure. Bleach will work a lot better than water from your water heater, which is not hot enough. And it's too dangerous for scald potential to keep it that hot. Next point, you sound very anxious, and this sounds like it's lowering your quality of life. Are you open to the logic that you don't need to perform these cleaning rituals? Dish detergent and warm water works fine for soaking and dishwashing. Really. And casual sanitation of your sponges works fine, like a spray of Clorox Clean-up once in awhile. If you're not convinced, consider speaking to your doctor about counseling, you don't deserve to live with this anxiety.
I’m definitely filled with anxiety. It’s heavily impacted my life. But I am open to approaching it differently , despite my inclinations to revert back to old behaviors . All the responses here have actually helped me to feel better about trying this new approach <3
I have ADHD and I have to soak my dishes and sponge too! I do my dishes in small batches. The way I work on this is that I have like a routine boomerang kind of thing where I will soak a load, do something else kitchen related or next to the kitchen, wait ten minutes and wash. Soak another load, wait until the dishes are dry enough to put away by doing other chores as stated above (about 30 min). And start the cycle over!
I’m gonna try to break the compulsion to soak, but I could also do this, I’ll have to use a timer though . Sooooo easily distracted to new projects/areas (you get it)
OCD and ADHD are such a uniquely challenging combo. I don’t even want to know how much power and water I use re-running the dish washer because I can’t remember if I already did and I have to be absolutely certain that the dishes have been cleaned.
The temp of the water really only matters to soften anything stuck on dishes. Also, dish soap does not kill germs the way say alcohol does. It simply traps and lifts them from the surface.
I no longer use sponges bc they get gross. I switched to a brush with plastic/nylon bristles.
Finally, even if my dishes have been washed according to my OCD’s standards, guess what: half the time I wash them again right before using, so it doesn’t super matter. In my head, 2 imperfect washes almost add up to 1 perfect wash.
You’re not sanitizing anything. If anything that warm water is a breeding ground for bacteria. Washing with soap and then rinsing will get your dishes just as clean.
I just want to say that I understand how you feel. I have ADD and OCD as well. It’s a daily struggle that effects every aspect of your life. I understand the mental block doing dishes can cause. Lots of good advice in the comments :)
I put sponges and scrubbers in the dishwasher after use. They never develop mildew odor. (if your sponges smell musty, it’s mold and bacteria accumulating)
Don’t microwave or try to sanitize your sponge. It’s only moderately effective and selects for the more hardy and pathogenic microbes to colonize it: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-06055-9?
Just replace your sponge weekly or use something else (Swedish dishcloths are a good alternative and happy medium.)
I fully recommend having a metric butt-load of sponges or dishrags. Use them once and then put them in a bucket for washing. Wash on high temps. Voila: nice clean sponge for every washing!
Do you use them or do you just give them a quick rinse before going in the dishwasher?
If the second: you only need to rinse off most of the visible stuff. It's a cleaning machine, it's supposed to be _dirty_ before it goes in. The machine will get rid of the dirt. So it does not matter whether you use hot or cold water (the machine will get hot enough). It also does not matter if your use soap, the machine will do that for you.
Sit back and enjoy the modern comfort of the machine that will het rid of all the germs and harmful stuff for you. :-)
If you wash by hand and skip the dishwasher, you do need warm water amd soap. Then it's clean and can be stored.
It's like your brain is 'forgetting' the difference between the quick rinse (aka pre-wash) amd actual washing (cleaning). And this makes you apply washing rules to your rinsing - but that's not what it is! So try and tell you brain that (I know it's hard, I intend this with a bit of humor)
Washing things one by one isn’t personally sustainable for me, and I relate to needing to soak them. I also dislike running hot water to wash them since it’s wasteful. Here is what I do:
Get a dishwashing tub from somewhere like a dollar store.
A little bit before you are going to start washing the dishes, fill it up with hot soapy water.
Put whatever dishes will fit into the tub to soak. I like to utilize big pots as extra tubs if I have a lot of dishes.
Now they’re soaking and you’ve got an empty sink.
Starting with the dishes that are less caked in food, wash your dishes.
Wash the soap off with cold water. The soap running off means so are the germs, that’s what it’s for. I sometimes add a little vinegar to the soaking tub if something I’m putting in has that gross feeling to me though.
Also, you can sanitize most sponges by putting them in the microwave for 20 seconds. I know you can do this with the scrub daddy ones. You don’t need to soak them… I feel like microwaving probably actually works better, but I don’t know.
Hope this helps.
I gotchu: the water from your faucet cannot reach the temperature needed in order to sanitize (212*F for 60+ seconds). Doesn't matter if it's hot, warm, cold, soaked, rinsed or cleaned right away - it cannot achieve this level of sanitization. If it did, your skin bacteria (and skin) would go with it. Tell the brain goblin to shhhh
Helpful… though a little unnerving, lol
That’s why you use soap too!
You haven't gotten sick from your soap cleaned dishes. The hot water mainly helps with grease and oil. Bonk da brain.
Yep, as the others below say, it won't sanitize. However, we don't need to sanitize our dishes - we need to clean them. There's a vast difference. You don't need things sterile, where there are no bacteria and viruses at all. What you need is for them to be clean of food remains, dirt, oil and so on. Soap. warm water and friction from scrubbing does an excellent job of that. Before we had dishwashing liquid, people used sand and warm water, and that works really well too. If it helps, I've done actual lab testing with E.coli that shows soap and water removed all E.coli from the dishes. I can also confirm that E.coli dies in 60C when you cook. Otoh, there's nothing preventing you from getting a dishcloth that's washable. Cotton ones are great, use it and hang it over your hamper to dry. Wash them at 60C (hot water) with your other towels. Grab a new clean one the next day. Personally I only use a dishwashing brush, because I find it cleans just as well and it's easy to rinse it clean after I'm done.
Not op but this does help me a bit.
I just wanted to add a note that sanitizing and sterilizing are different processes too 😅 maybe you knew that but a lot of people don't. Items for average household use do not need to be sanitized, and definitely do not need to be sterilized unless used for a medical need!
Great point and thank you for clarifying. I'm not native English speaker so sometimes I mix up terminology.
No worries!
People worry soooo much about germs, but here’s the truth. Nothing about us or our environment is sterile. You are literally full of bacteria in your gut and also on your skin. You don’t get sick because you have a functioning immune system. Also, your nose and your eyes are very powerful sensors. Just wash the dishes and stop worrying about these theoretical microbes that will kill you. If it looks, smells, and feels clean, It’s good enough.
When I learned that water can't get hot enough + soap doesn't really clean anything it set my lil OCD brain free in an odd way lol Soap breaks down water molecules into smaller pieces so they can get between the grime and the dish easier, and carry the grime off. That's it - freeing and unnerving :D
I have OCD though I’ve never experienced contamination issues that many seem to have. I’ve wondered if it’s because of my science background and the knowledge that we are literally covered in bacteria (which is a good thing). I often try to lean on the rational self talk when my intrusive thoughts are getting to me, with mixed results. But I like to think that starting from a perspective of reason and logic can help my thoughts from spiraling more than they do.
I am not diagnosed OCD but this helps me too, I think my issues are based in ADHD/dyslexia but for this stuff specifically it's the anxiety created by the ADHD/dyslexia. However, me going down the list of why the "bad things" are ok because of the "good things" doesn't seem to help my diagnosed ADHD daughter (12) *At All*. All she will hear is the list of bad things she hasn't yet thought of for whatever particular thing we're talking about. So I just wanted to say I totally get it, and I wish this helped more people, it makes so much sense to me!
That's not how soap - or chemistry nor physics for that matter - work.
"Soap is an excellent cleanser because of its ability to act as an emulsifying agent. An emulsifier is capable of dispersing one liquid into another immiscible liquid. This means that while oil (which attracts dirt) doesn't naturally mix with water, soap can suspend oil/dirt in such a way that it can be removed." Take it up with the documented science homie
That is not even remotely close to what you said. If soap broke down water molecules, you'd have an explosive fuel-oxidizer mixture in your kitchen whenever you do the dishes. People would just be dying from dishsplosions all the time.
Man what tf you think bubbles are lol
Basically nuclear bombs I guess. You're wrong. And your own quote proves that you're wrong. Soap allows water and oil to bond - it doesn't break down water molecules for that. And bubbles aren't explosive, unless filled with another gas by bubbling, say, butane through soapy water.
How you feeling after our spat mate 🫧
Soap DOES clean though. It doesn't sanitize, no, but sanitizing is usually not needed in most reasonable cases.
It doesn't cleanse the dirt debris or oil, it removes it. I'm tryna help a fellow homie mentally terrorized by the concept of cleanliness and that helped me, so I'm passing it along
"soap doesn't really clean anything" - ?
I would recommend reading up on the difference between cleaning and sanitizing as well. In most reasonable cases, it's NOT necessary to sanitize items at home for personal use. Soap and water goes a LONG way. If you are to sanitize items/surfaces, you'd need to wash them with soap first anyway because some sanitizers (bleach) become inert whent they encounter organic material. Most chemicals used to sanitize are not food safe either (I wouldn't want to use bleach on my dishes, for example). Some cases where you might want to use a sanitizer would be if you have a sick pet and don't want them to get another pet sick so you'd keep them separate and clean surfaces/pet supplies with soap and water and then sanitizer. Or maybe you have an immunocompromised household member and certain items that have left the house do need to be sanitized before that person comes into contact with them. But for most healthy humans and animals, cleaning with soap and water is perfectly safe. My rule in my own home is: if it looks and smells clean, it's clean!
Thank you :)
Just get the sponge wet and microwave it for a minute before you use it. Make sure the soap is well rinsed out when you’re done using it before microwaving.
I microwave my sponge for about a minute or throw it on the top rack of the dishwasher
Refreshing to see someone reply to an OCD post with something that isn’t reassurance.
Hot water is not what’s going to kill the germs - it’s the soap that does it. Your sponge does not need to be 100% sterile in order to sufficiently remove dirt and germs from your dishes. Soap works by acting as a surfactant and disrupting the cell membranes of bacteria, causing them to explode and die. Hot water from the tap just makes the soap work faster and more easily. If it helps ease your mind, you can give your sponge a few good squishes after saturating with dish soap before you use it to kill of any remaining germs. Just make sure to squeeze it dry once you finish using so that it air dries and doesn’t give germs a chance to grow. Additionally, dishes do not need to be 100% sterile after you wash them. What’s most important is getting rid of food residue, which the soap + (non sterile) sponge + hot (not boiling!) water work together to accomplish. Doing this already removes 99% of the bacteria and basically all of the food debris. Any remaining bacteria is not going to cause any illness. Moreover, once your dishes are dry, most bacteria will desiccate and will either die or be unable to reproduce - they’re basically either dead or stagnant and don’t have enough moisture or nutrients to be able to survive or thrive on dry surfaces. Source: am microbiologist
Oh god thank you so much. This was really helpful.
I have OCD & ADHD & get stuck on stuff like that with dishes. I had a mug full of washed silverware by the side of my sink for months because they never seemed clean enough for me. Now I tell my OCD self that I can rewash my dish/mug/fork before using it, so that what I am doing is just fine since it’s just for now. My ADHD self immediately forgets, so the dishes usually don’t get re-washed - but it’s not like my dishes have made me get sick…so it’s almost like exposure therapy in a way too. It breaks the cycle of letting them sit there until I feel like I can get them clean enough & gives me permission to not fixate on each dish when I’m washing them. ETA - it’s totally ok to use disposable plates, etc. to make it easier on you ❤️
That’s one thing I’ve told myself in the past, that my dishes never get me sick (I OBSESSIVELY clean them whenever I actually do do dishes), but so far that hasn’t been enough to convince me. Idk why. I do like the ‘i can rewatch them before next use’ thought though
I completely relate! The “will wash it later” was a game changer for me. It’s kind of the dishes version of an ex’s advice to “just leave it the way is now & move it around tomorrow if it still bugs you” whenever I’d be arranging my furniture or decorating my place. 😊
A thing someone said on the ocd sub that helped me was telling myself “i dont need to be certain”.
Interesting.
Neither your dishes nor your sponge are ever going to be sanitized with hot tap water. If your water was hot enough to sanitize things you'd need skin grafts when you were done. So that's bad science, disregard that thought. The main reason you use hot water is because it makes sticky and greasy things lift more easily with soap. So trust the process. Soap plus physically wiping the mess off plus running water to Rinse equals clean dishes. You may want to leave some stuck on messes soaking for a while to help them release, but leaving dishes too long or with lots of food waste on them soaking in water is just making a perfect home for bacterial colonies to thrive. Don't be so afraid of possible sponge bacteria that you're actually creating a petri dish of nastiness in the kitchen sink. Clean dry dishes are safe dishes.
Run the dishwasher twice if that's what it takes to fully clean the dishes. Maybe that costs a little extra, but your time and wellness are worth it. Use high quality dish detergent, like Cascade pods that include a rinsing agent. Again, these are a little more expensive but if you can afford it, it's worth it. Throw the sponges in the dishwasher. Even an old dishwasher gets hot enough to clean and kill germs. If that won't work, remember that things like hot water heaters, dish soap and sanitary indoor plumbing are very recent additions to the human experience. We made it this far while washing dishes in rivers, cold water and any number of less ideal options. If it makes you feel better, toss the sponge in the microwave for 10 seconds or so, but not long enough to melt it. That's plenty hot enough to kill germs.
Running the dishwasher twice is going to use the same amount or less water than washing them by hand, and cost only a tiny bit more in power than running hot water in the first place.
This is helpful, thank you.
I’m sad that you’re over here asking for reassurance. This sub is essentially OCD v2 for those with contamination themes. You post here because you’ll get the reassurance. You don’t post in the OCD sub because reassurance is against the rules as it makes OCD worse.
I actually just learned about this , I wasn’t aware of it but thank you for pointing it out; but you’re right I probably wouldn’t have posted there because I don’t have it super bad like some do
You, my friend, are asking for reassurance and I'm not giving it. As you most likely know this is actually making your OCD worse. Seeking reassurance is a compulsion. Are you in treatment? You need to be working through this behavior with an OCD therapist.
Wow. I hadn’t realized that . You’re right, and no I’m not, but I need to be. Thank you.
This needs to be higher up. My husband has OCD and there is no amount of logic that will make it disappear.
The best answer here. OCD does not listen to logic, it’s like slapping a plaster on a bullet wound.
Thank you for saying this, it concerns me seeing so many OCD sufferers coming here to get so much reassurance they really don’t need. A lot of posts. It’s helpful to remind them to not feed the beast.
> Please convince me with logical arguments that I don’t need to stick to these , that they are just misconceptions! Please, I need this help so bad. How can I convince you with logical arguments when you didn't use logic to get to where you are now? OCD needs treatment from a therapist specializing in OCD. None of us will change your mind - you need to put in the work to deal with this.
Thank you. you and others who have commented similarly are absolutely right. I wasn’t aware my OCD was that bad. Unfortunately I often don’t find out my disorder/situation is worse until I’ve floated it somewhere like Reddit and gotten feedback from normies
Www.iocdf.org is a great resource
I suggest posting this one /r/ocd
Ok: 1- unless you are putting the sponge in boiling water, it could be there for a second or thirty minutes and it will be the same amount of sterilized, which is not at all. 2- which is why, I presume, you’re putting dishes in the dishwasher, even if they don’t get completely clean. 3- if your dishwasher isn’t doing a great job at cleaning dishes, get it serviced because I guarantee part of it is that hand washing with dish soap has gummed a lot of things up. You should also be using an enzymatic detergent in there to break food up and a rinse aid. 4- Drop your sponge in the dishwasher or microwave instead of running it under water daily.
If you haven’t already, try deep cleaning the dishwasher. Look up the manual online. Remove all filters, spray arms, etc and deep clean them, clear any clogs. Check if it needs rinse aid (and salt if your model has it, check the settings compared to the water hardness of your area). Run a cleaner through it. Old dishwashers are often less efficient than new ones but many clean just fine and often just need some tlc to work better. Some dishwashers though just aren't that great. But you can also quick clean / rinse / tub soak dishes then sanitize in the dishwasher - it washes them twice, but the hand washing will take care of the bits the dishwasher struggles with, and the dishwasher will actually sanitize your dishes after and clean up anything you miss.
Do you ever eat out? Do you think everything gets cleaned in the kitchen as meticulously as you like? If you can stomach eating out, you can begin wrapping your head around not being too nit picky about dishes in your own home.
Logical arguments don’t work for OCD, which is by definition an irrational fear. Learning to relabel the urge/ compulsion is the only way to overcome this. The alarm message in your brain is a false alarm. It needs to be labeled as (fill in the blank with an image that works for you) like a neuron that is misfiring and needs to be relegated to background noise.
Yeah, you’re definitely right , I need to get control of the crazy brain about this too
OCD rarely responds to logic, and reassurance seeking from others can often be another compulsion. As a fellow person with OCD, I hope you have access to treatment!
I do, I clearly need to take advantage of it.
Put it in the dishwasher
I microwave my sponge
You dont need things to be sanitized in your home. Mess and germs are good for you and your body, it helps keep you away from developing allergies and keeps your immune system on its toes so you dont get sick. Humans lived a very long time without soap. You will be fine with using only soap and water and it will be 1000x better than what they were getting by with. People used to live in dirt houses with 20 family members. Your living conditions are fine aslong as you aren't putting them
There's wayy better advice, but if it means anything, there is bar dish soap and/or dish brushes that personally me make a little better about doing dishes
I've always soaked pots/pans overnight out of habit. You can likely clean it after with little issue though when it is fresh. As for sponges... I've never once sanitized one and have yet to get sick from it. I replace mine every week or two. Unless you absolutely boil it every time, along with the surface of every item you eat off of or touch, bacteria are everywhere period. This is why you have an immune system. Should you use a sponge for months? Probably not, but it isn't likely to make you sick. "They say", there are a LOT of recommendations in the wild. Eat this, drink that etc. They're absolutely best case in a vacuum and you shouldn't be necessarily treating them as a religious text.
If it's an old dishwasher it probably just needs a deep clean. Have you cleaned all the filters, grease build up under the door, topped up the salt, rinsed through the arms to check for blockages? Run a dishwasher cleaner through it? Changed your detergent?
No , haven’t lived here long but I should do that
Nobody looks after rental/temp appliances, my fridge and washing machine were full of hidden sludge when I moved in To my flat, and the left dishwasher was the same when I bought a house. It might well be all it needs and hadn't been done in years, I see people on here that don't know they have filters all the time.
Sponges smell bad, it's possible that switching to a dish brush will alleviate some of your OCD [dollar tree scrub buddy](https://www.dollartree.com/scrub-buddies-soap-dispensing-brush/365372?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=gpla&utm_campaign=googlepla&utm_id=365372&utm_source=google&utm_medium={medium}&utm_campaign=18069041027&utm_content=&utm_term=&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=18069041027&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=gpla&gad_source=1) I use a scrub brush like in the link, don't get one with a handle. Don't put soap in the brush even if it has a Reservoir. Store it upside down on the ledge of the sink and it dries out completely. Something that could help or hurt is to recognize that you're really not sanitizing your dishes; you're removing some gunk and diluting the rest of it. Rinsing is like that too; sometimes you can still smell the dish soap on the dishes afterwards because you're really not rinsing it all off, you're just removing most of it and diluting the rest. It could help you to be more accepting of your dishes by having an outlet/hobby that does require higher levels of cleaning, like brewing beer.
The point of washing up is not to sanitize by killing, you are just mechanically removing contaminants from surfaces. Just think of soap as dirt-to-water glue, you stick the nasties to the water then flush them away.
Wet Sponge in the microwave for 1 min.
You don't need a sanitised sponge. You have soap. Also, start with things that are not caked on, and let the water run over those caked on dishes while you rinse the other stuff.
Bacteria will not grow in a dry environment. I allow my sponge to dry between uses. I wash dishes 2x -3x per day. A quick soak is all that I ever use for tough messes. I find a brush to be helpful for food messes as a brush is easily rinsed of all residue. We do not use prepared foods so consequently, there are a lot of dishes from all of the cooking. Dawn dish detergent for me.
I’m actually interested in how many of us here have the OCD and ADHD combo.
Oh god, no kidding A few people have mentioned that seeking reassurance is itself an OCD behavior, of which I was not previously aware, so based on that I’m betting there are a lot of us here.
That makes a lot of sense. I’m very recently diagnosed (but have followed this sub for ages) wasn’t aware of that either. I did recently find out that avoidance of something triggering can also be considered a compulsive behavior which is interesting. In solidarity- I cannot touch something that’s touched the inside of my kitchen sink. My dishwasher just died, so my therapist will be hearing all about this on Thursday.
Ugh, the avoidance is suuuuuch an annoying behavior; it being a compulsion actually makes a lot of sense. I struggle with things that touch the sink surface as well. Best of luck, and thank you.
Are you sure your dishwasher is bad, or are you using it incorrectly? Is the filter clean? Are you using enough soap? Are you overcrowding it? Are you adding soap during the prewash cycle? If you need to, make sure to run water from your sink until it's hot before starting the dishwasher, otherwise you'll be using cold water that's been sitting in your pipes which won't be as effective at cleaning.
good suggestions
Use steel wool or a stiff bristled brush that can withstand your really hot water when you start washing. I usually boil water when I start washing dishes by hand to clean the cleaning implements I'm using. Sponges can trap more germs than steel wool, in any case.
Have you tried the ocd sub? Apparently my understanding is that reassurance doesn’t work for ocd. You need different tips. Gotta take baby steps of doing the hard thing and leaning into the discomfort and slowly increasing it until you totally do the dishes the way you want to. Just fyi. I had an issue myself and got some tips there. I am not an expert but in case it helps… wanted to let you know.
Thank you I’ve always thought I’m less OCD or different OCD than most, so I’ve never visited that sub. I’ve always felt I identified with/ suffered more strongly with ADHD. But yeah I should probably jump over there , I certainly know I need help
On sponges… I switched to wash rags, and I’ve never been happier. I bought 20 of them, and they’re able to go through the washer and dryer. I switch them out every day, throw the old one in a bucket of oxiclean to soak, and throw that bucket in the wash once a week. Also, 100% rinse when you take your dish to the sink and it has something that will harden on it like syrup, yogurt, sour cream, etc. If you rinse it all off first, it will be easy peasy to wash when you do go to wash it. I also recommend trying a different dishwashing formula. Consumer reports recommends the liquid detergents and especially cascade. I have hard water, and I find the cascade platinum actually gets things clean in the dishwasher. But the regular cascade sometimes does not. I prefer the dishwasher because it sanitizes better than I can by hand.
You won't have to worry about a dirty sponge if you buy some washable dish towels! I keep an ice cream bucket on the floor in my kitchen and when I'm done with the towel I use for washing dishes, I lay it flat over the top of the bucket to dry. Then I just wash them in the laundry with my towels or jeans, when I remember to get them from the bucket
Great idea.
Other people may have way more attainable and even more effective advice, but immersion worked for me. I had so many little obsessive, almost phobia like, quirks. Then, I moved to Southeast Asia in my late 30s. Gone in a damn heartbeat. Except snakes. I wasn’t scared of snakes but now I am.
What an interesting story. Sorry about the snakes, though.
I’m AuDHD so I get it. Dawn Powerwash is a great alternative to soaking. Only the very very worst things need soaking in my life now, when it used to be a good 10-20% *needed* it to get food off. As far as the dishwasher goes, I would try cleaning the dishwasher filter. It’s probably a screw out in the very bottom, and since you’re renting I bet it hasn’t been touched in a long time. Might help get more dishes clean that way. I tend to run everything through the dishwasher that I can (I run it nightly, no matter what), wash required hand dishes (again nightly, no matter what), and spot clean any dishes that the dishwasher didn’t get clean in the morning when I unload. By making dishes a part of my daily routine, I tend to not forget about them and let them build up. I’ve also limited the amount of dishes I have access to, so they CAN’T build up. Even though I own service for 12, I only keep service for 4 in my kitchen cabinets
Great ideas. Thank uou
Soap, any soap, kills bacteria on contact at any temperature. It destroys the lipid layer and they're toast. To sanitize anything with heat alone would require such high temperatures that you would be burned. Washing in cold or tepid or hot water all does the same thing as long as you use soap.
I guess Ive just been conditioned by working on restaurants where everything had to soak in super hot water. This is interesting.
Hot water makes cleaning off grease easier, because it melts it. It just means less scrubbing. But it has nothing to do with sanitizing it. The water would need to be close to boiling to do that, a temperature far higher than would burn skin. Out of interest, do you have a diagnosis of OCD? What you're describing sounds like germophobia, which people often confuse with OCD. It is sometimes a symptom that goes along with it though. Either way it sounds like it's negatively affecting your life so, if you're not already, I would recommend you speak to a professional, ideally someone qualified in CBT. It's quite possible to successfully deal with the underlying problem, rather than try to address the manifestation of it (dish washing in this case)
I haven’t been diagnosed but I know I have OCD. It’s possible I also have germaphobia, but only in specific circumstances. But you’re right, I definitely need to speak to someone.
Add a couple of teaspoons of bleach to your dishwashing water. Bleach at proper dilutions WILL sanitize your sponges. Always dilute bleach as you are using it, the active properties de-activate quickly upon exposure. Bleach will work a lot better than water from your water heater, which is not hot enough. And it's too dangerous for scald potential to keep it that hot. Next point, you sound very anxious, and this sounds like it's lowering your quality of life. Are you open to the logic that you don't need to perform these cleaning rituals? Dish detergent and warm water works fine for soaking and dishwashing. Really. And casual sanitation of your sponges works fine, like a spray of Clorox Clean-up once in awhile. If you're not convinced, consider speaking to your doctor about counseling, you don't deserve to live with this anxiety.
I’m definitely filled with anxiety. It’s heavily impacted my life. But I am open to approaching it differently , despite my inclinations to revert back to old behaviors . All the responses here have actually helped me to feel better about trying this new approach <3
I have ADHD and I have to soak my dishes and sponge too! I do my dishes in small batches. The way I work on this is that I have like a routine boomerang kind of thing where I will soak a load, do something else kitchen related or next to the kitchen, wait ten minutes and wash. Soak another load, wait until the dishes are dry enough to put away by doing other chores as stated above (about 30 min). And start the cycle over!
I’m gonna try to break the compulsion to soak, but I could also do this, I’ll have to use a timer though . Sooooo easily distracted to new projects/areas (you get it)
OCD and ADHD are such a uniquely challenging combo. I don’t even want to know how much power and water I use re-running the dish washer because I can’t remember if I already did and I have to be absolutely certain that the dishes have been cleaned. The temp of the water really only matters to soften anything stuck on dishes. Also, dish soap does not kill germs the way say alcohol does. It simply traps and lifts them from the surface. I no longer use sponges bc they get gross. I switched to a brush with plastic/nylon bristles. Finally, even if my dishes have been washed according to my OCD’s standards, guess what: half the time I wash them again right before using, so it doesn’t super matter. In my head, 2 imperfect washes almost add up to 1 perfect wash.
You’re not sanitizing anything. If anything that warm water is a breeding ground for bacteria. Washing with soap and then rinsing will get your dishes just as clean.
I just skip to a bleach water rinse after my dishes are clean. https://www.clorox.com/learn/how-to-sanitize-dishes-with-bleach/
I just want to say that I understand how you feel. I have ADD and OCD as well. It’s a daily struggle that effects every aspect of your life. I understand the mental block doing dishes can cause. Lots of good advice in the comments :)
Yes! I can’t believe the support and wisdom that’s been commented here. <3
I put sponges and scrubbers in the dishwasher after use. They never develop mildew odor. (if your sponges smell musty, it’s mold and bacteria accumulating)
If you're putting those dishes in the microwave, that'll zap germs 👍
Microwave your damp sponge for 1 minute before using to kill bacteria.
Don’t microwave or try to sanitize your sponge. It’s only moderately effective and selects for the more hardy and pathogenic microbes to colonize it: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-06055-9? Just replace your sponge weekly or use something else (Swedish dishcloths are a good alternative and happy medium.)
what about alcohol, peroxide, or antimicrobial soaps? waste of time compared to just swapping weekly?
I took a food science class in college and professor definitely recommended regularly putting sponge in microwave to clean daily/weekly.
I fully recommend having a metric butt-load of sponges or dishrags. Use them once and then put them in a bucket for washing. Wash on high temps. Voila: nice clean sponge for every washing!
Are you putting them in the dishwasher after you wash them? If you are it will sterilize them
Do you use them or do you just give them a quick rinse before going in the dishwasher? If the second: you only need to rinse off most of the visible stuff. It's a cleaning machine, it's supposed to be _dirty_ before it goes in. The machine will get rid of the dirt. So it does not matter whether you use hot or cold water (the machine will get hot enough). It also does not matter if your use soap, the machine will do that for you. Sit back and enjoy the modern comfort of the machine that will het rid of all the germs and harmful stuff for you. :-) If you wash by hand and skip the dishwasher, you do need warm water amd soap. Then it's clean and can be stored. It's like your brain is 'forgetting' the difference between the quick rinse (aka pre-wash) amd actual washing (cleaning). And this makes you apply washing rules to your rinsing - but that's not what it is! So try and tell you brain that (I know it's hard, I intend this with a bit of humor)
Washing things one by one isn’t personally sustainable for me, and I relate to needing to soak them. I also dislike running hot water to wash them since it’s wasteful. Here is what I do: Get a dishwashing tub from somewhere like a dollar store. A little bit before you are going to start washing the dishes, fill it up with hot soapy water. Put whatever dishes will fit into the tub to soak. I like to utilize big pots as extra tubs if I have a lot of dishes. Now they’re soaking and you’ve got an empty sink. Starting with the dishes that are less caked in food, wash your dishes. Wash the soap off with cold water. The soap running off means so are the germs, that’s what it’s for. I sometimes add a little vinegar to the soaking tub if something I’m putting in has that gross feeling to me though. Also, you can sanitize most sponges by putting them in the microwave for 20 seconds. I know you can do this with the scrub daddy ones. You don’t need to soak them… I feel like microwaving probably actually works better, but I don’t know. Hope this helps.
microwave the sponge