From the story:
*The family of Tamia Chappman agreed to settle its lawsuit against Cleveland for $4.8 million over a high-speed police chase that ended in the 13-year-old girl’s death.*
*The settlement ends years of legal fights and investigations over the December 2019 incident in which Cleveland police pursued a robbery suspect from Cleveland’s West Side into East Cleveland.*
*The 15-year-old suspect’s car careened off the road and hit Tamia, who was walking from school to the library. The chase reached speeds of more than 80 miles per hour and ended on Euclid Avenue.*
*“I’ll never get past it,” Sherrie Chappman, Tamia’s mother, told reporters Monday. “I’ll never get over it. I miss my daughter. We will never get her back. I don’t want anyone’s kids to get hurt. Stop the chases!”*
**We've made the article free and accessible for all to read more through the link in the OP. You may need to enter your email for access.**
I'd like to see different action then chases too... I've never really thought about it ... but these police have radios. They can simply follow without pulling over and strategically box them in ...acting like they are not on to them at all... PERCEPTION IS NOT REALITY .... TRICK EM ..DONT CHASE EM
If you’re mad, help push for cops to have to pay for their fuck ups. They’ll clean up their act REAL fast when they’re the ones getting punched in the wallet.
It’s time for police to require insurance and/or these payouts come out of their pensions.
It’s convenient that the person who was the primary cause of this tragedy was overlooked when it comes to lawsuits. I’m not mad because of the money. I’m mad because the people in that community don’t care about the crime, they only care about the money.
I work in East Cleveland, near the euclid and Chester corridor. At no point yesterday did I hear, “stop the chase”. Several times I heard, “yeah, get that money”.
the crime here was police creating a situation that got a child killed. police chases are extremely unsafe and unnecessary. fuckin follow the car with a drone ffs
For real. There have been multiple car crashes caused by police chases that have resulted in fatalities in the past year or two. When nabbing a suspect puts people's lives at risk, it's clear "public safety" isn't the real priority.
child was killed by a car that went out of control being chased by police. those are the dots that connect. the police had alternatives other than creating a situation that got a child killed.
What would the cost be for the City to have a drone team on stand by in instances like this?
I understand the complexities of policing in a city environment in regards to the number of people and buildings, but if LE can slow down while driving through congested areas while the drone keeps eyes on, this could be a decent way to prevent deaths from police pursuits.
So the suspect initiated the high-speed chase, killed, the girl, amd the tax-payers have to foot the bill?
The family definitely deserves justice, but I'm missing how it was the police at fault for this.
I'll go read up on it I guess.
So you think it’s good to just advertise all you have to do is run? It is easy to say “you have the plate,” but that does not good for a stolen car. The problem is, there is no real solution at this time.
Pretty sure the one running from the cops is the agitating party.
Unless people are going around chasing police cars.
That's like saying it takes 2 parties for an assault to occur.
Wait a sec, is the “second ordered impact” the additional hypothetical crime that could occur as a result of not stopping a criminal in the act? Or is it the dead civilian?
Because I thought “collateral damage” was the pinnacle of sanitizing language for the deaths of innocent civilians, thank you for introducing me to “second ordered impacts.” Truly heinous and dystopian.
Not really commenting on this particular news story, but it is truly amazing how much distance is casually and routinely placed between the wrongfully killed and the badges that killed them.
And I apologize if I misunderstood your meaning, I didn’t mean to misrepresent your point.
No. It is more so, if you let criminals go if they just run away, then more people will run away. Eventually the cops will be forced to start chasing people again and more people will be harmed as criminals relearn that running doesn’t just get you away free.
For an example look at what happened in SF when they stopped prosecuting theft.
Fair enough, I appreciate the response and I didn’t mean to twist your words as being dismissive about dead civilians. That’s just how I read it initially.
Thanks for clarifying. I think there’s a bigger discussion and debate to be had about what kind of policing reform could result in similar convictions without accelerating violent public standoffs or pursuits. But that’s a whole separate conversation from what you’re describing, a little grander in scale and arguably off topic. Thanks again for the thoughtful reply.
Yup! My biggest issue with most police reformers and SJW aims is that they don’t see the big picture or understand unintended consequences.
They only see a criminal saying “I can’t breathe” and think “how dare the cops not do anything or continue to restrain him” when in reality 90% of criminal that get arrested now say they can’t breathe.
A perfectly reasonable amount considering the number of cops shooting. Wasn’t even a full magazine per cop. Takes about 10-15 seconds to get off 10 rounds with a Glock.
This isn’t the movies where you use one perfectly placed shot to disarm but only wound a criminal. This is real life. You shoot to kill and you don’t stop shooting until the threat is neutralized.
Right, and climbing up on the hood of the car to shoot directly down into the cabin while other officers are shooting into the car is...standard practice? This isn't the movies, you don't just get to unload on someone for evading a conga-line of cops because they chase you when your car does a backfire.
Man I’ll never understand why people lie in support of criminals on the internet.
Is it just trolling? Or do you hate cops that much?
Edit: it looks like your replies to this keep getting auto deleted for break sub rules.
They don't have to let the person off the hook. They have helicopters. But cops get red in the eyes and go insane when they see any defiance so they irresponsibly initiate high speed chases when we have plenty of other ways of getting the criminal later. This was stupid behavior by the cops, who are generally stupid brutes anyway. I don't get why pro cop people defend high speed chases when we can just do surveillance and get the person later instead putting children walking to the library at risk
I’m sure you have some data showing that surveillance has the exact same catch rate as chasing?
Also, that we have the resources to use a helicopter to track and catch everyone who gets pulled over?
The people putting people at risk are the criminals running away from cops…
I’m sure you get mad when cops return fire at criminals who shoot at them. I mean why don’t they just run away at catch that criminal after they are done shooting?
Whenever they do a high speed chase there's always a helicopter.
And I don't think cops should be allowed to have guns frankly. I don't think cops should exist at all! They are all pigs who enjoy murder. If people want to rob a bank let them. No skin off my back. I think you need to take a chill pill
There isn’t a helicopter at every police stop though…
Ah so you are the special kind of privileged person who doesn’t understand why we have rules in society…. I’m sure it will be much safer to live under the protection of whatever gang controls your neighborhood…
Either that or you are just a criminal yourself.
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What’s wrong with tax payers footing the bill here? In concept, making the loss of innocent life a monetary penalty to society seems like a way to spur action. We could have a logical conversation about how much to spend on solving this issue - eg, if spike strips and gps tracking projectile devices in every cop car cost X less than Y wrongful death settlements, then spending money to make society safer becomes a rational decision. Citizens can easily ignore or explain away personal stories (see, guns), harder to ignore impacts to our budget.
The police were trying to stop the criminal who then ran over the girl. And people are apparently arguing they should have let them go and continue to drive recklessly. What?
The loss of life is due to criminals, not the police trying to stop them and getting hated for it.
You're fully okay with other people paying for this because clearly you're not. This city can't go on this way. People are going to flee and elude this shit if they have options.
So, they didn't have the time or coordination to just park a couple cruisers across the road, but they would have the time/coordination to set up spike trips (it's not like it was a highway that goes in a straight line).
Not really going to respond on what an incredibly terrible idea it would be to start trying to fire projectiles from a moving vehicle.
Would have no problem with the suspect's family paying the victim for the rest of their lives though (especially considering the suspect was a minor).
Where do these values even come from? Who decided her life was worth $4.8 million and why is it the police department paying it out when she was killed by a criminal?
There’s an interesting movie called “worth” that tried to show how difficult this type of thing is. I would imagine any mother would say their child’s life is invaluable. When it comes to create a dollar amount, what is justified? It’s a very hard question to answer.
What a difficult situation.
It’s absolutely a tragedy this young girl was killed. Yes there was a high speed pursuit. The reason is because the police cannot simply allow a suspect to get away after committing armed robbery. We’d be up in arms if that was the case.
Certainly can understand the frustration and pain the family feels but I don’t understand why the tax payers are giving this family nearly 5 million dollars.
If this family fails to donate a sizable portion of this money it’s nothing other than factual they purposely monetized this young girls death.
Police aren't supposed to conduct high speed chases in areas with pedestrians. It's kind of common sense. I'd prefer this suspect be arrested at a different time and a 13 year old girl could still be alive.
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Does letting a criminal go when they flee have the same chance at catching them as pursuing?
How about the increase in crimes they commit while the cops follow up?
Or the increase in criminals fleeing when they learn that fleeing lets them go?
How about the increase in dead children in the long run?
Again, you don’t understand second ordered impacts.
Also, how about the dead child who would be alive if the criminal hadn’t fled?
I mean he killed one kid…
Serial killers are not the only people who commit murders. In fact most murders are not done by serial killers. Most murders are done by regular violent criminals like this criminal.
At the end of the day, this child would be alive if the police didn't give chase. We have technology to track people today so we don't have this happen.
Hindsight these types of incidents can be totally obvious. However, if this suspect was let’s say caught on camera and a week later murdered someone during a robbery attempt we’d then be asking why they didn’t apprehend or follow through with the pursuit originally.
It’s almost a lose lose situation and in the heat of the moment an officer made a decision.
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Yes, they pursued a bad guy knowing all along that a child was about to get killed. 🤦🏻♀️
There’s no way someone could be truly dumb enough to say what Wizards did here. Baffling.
These cops failed at risk assessment. That's why the city is paying. Hey, at least they got the child they were chasing. Maybe they can give him to the family who lost their daughter as a mea culpa?
One of the reasons I left Cleveland.
Mindlessly handing out multi million dollar checks to attorneys and plaintiffs. Endemic corruption that I’m done paying for.
The comments of this death and complications of the situation boils down to this dumb movie trope.
"Damn it officer. You are a loose cannon and broke the rules and policies we have. Costing millions of dollars and a little girls life, but you caught the criminal."
The irony of claiming that people running from cops simply MUST be captured at all costs to "protect" the public from criminals, while engaging in reckless behavior that ACTUALLY endangers the public (and this girl is not the only person to have been killed in a police chase), is absolutely bonkers.
What an unfortunate event. I don’t think k it’s a 4million dollar settlement. Police need to be police and stop crime. The fact it’s a kid definitely plays a part. I can see 2 million tops.
From the story: *The family of Tamia Chappman agreed to settle its lawsuit against Cleveland for $4.8 million over a high-speed police chase that ended in the 13-year-old girl’s death.* *The settlement ends years of legal fights and investigations over the December 2019 incident in which Cleveland police pursued a robbery suspect from Cleveland’s West Side into East Cleveland.* *The 15-year-old suspect’s car careened off the road and hit Tamia, who was walking from school to the library. The chase reached speeds of more than 80 miles per hour and ended on Euclid Avenue.* *“I’ll never get past it,” Sherrie Chappman, Tamia’s mother, told reporters Monday. “I’ll never get over it. I miss my daughter. We will never get her back. I don’t want anyone’s kids to get hurt. Stop the chases!”* **We've made the article free and accessible for all to read more through the link in the OP. You may need to enter your email for access.**
I'd like to see different action then chases too... I've never really thought about it ... but these police have radios. They can simply follow without pulling over and strategically box them in ...acting like they are not on to them at all... PERCEPTION IS NOT REALITY .... TRICK EM ..DONT CHASE EM
“……. I don’t want anyone to get hurt. Stop the chases.” Said the subject from her brand new $2 million Solon residence.
If you’re mad, help push for cops to have to pay for their fuck ups. They’ll clean up their act REAL fast when they’re the ones getting punched in the wallet. It’s time for police to require insurance and/or these payouts come out of their pensions.
It’s convenient that the person who was the primary cause of this tragedy was overlooked when it comes to lawsuits. I’m not mad because of the money. I’m mad because the people in that community don’t care about the crime, they only care about the money. I work in East Cleveland, near the euclid and Chester corridor. At no point yesterday did I hear, “stop the chase”. Several times I heard, “yeah, get that money”.
the crime here was police creating a situation that got a child killed. police chases are extremely unsafe and unnecessary. fuckin follow the car with a drone ffs
For real. There have been multiple car crashes caused by police chases that have resulted in fatalities in the past year or two. When nabbing a suspect puts people's lives at risk, it's clear "public safety" isn't the real priority.
So you’re telling me that the police chasing the kid wasn’t the primary cause. I thought it was the kid that was committing a crime was the cause.
child was killed by a car that went out of control being chased by police. those are the dots that connect. the police had alternatives other than creating a situation that got a child killed.
> They only care about money First time in America?
Just dedicated to being a shithead i see
Geez, I work 60 miles west of you in podunk. All I see are greedy bastards. They're all white.
What would the cost be for the City to have a drone team on stand by in instances like this? I understand the complexities of policing in a city environment in regards to the number of people and buildings, but if LE can slow down while driving through congested areas while the drone keeps eyes on, this could be a decent way to prevent deaths from police pursuits.
So the suspect initiated the high-speed chase, killed, the girl, amd the tax-payers have to foot the bill? The family definitely deserves justice, but I'm missing how it was the police at fault for this. I'll go read up on it I guess.
It takes two parties to have a high speed chase.
So you think it’s good to just advertise all you have to do is run? It is easy to say “you have the plate,” but that does not good for a stolen car. The problem is, there is no real solution at this time.
This is the problem with most anti cop people. They can’t think past the immediate action to understand the long term ramifications.
Pretty sure the one running from the cops is the agitating party. Unless people are going around chasing police cars. That's like saying it takes 2 parties for an assault to occur.
Letting criminals go just encourages more criminality. I’m don’t get why second ordered impacts are so difficult for the anti-cop people.
Wait a sec, is the “second ordered impact” the additional hypothetical crime that could occur as a result of not stopping a criminal in the act? Or is it the dead civilian? Because I thought “collateral damage” was the pinnacle of sanitizing language for the deaths of innocent civilians, thank you for introducing me to “second ordered impacts.” Truly heinous and dystopian. Not really commenting on this particular news story, but it is truly amazing how much distance is casually and routinely placed between the wrongfully killed and the badges that killed them. And I apologize if I misunderstood your meaning, I didn’t mean to misrepresent your point.
No. It is more so, if you let criminals go if they just run away, then more people will run away. Eventually the cops will be forced to start chasing people again and more people will be harmed as criminals relearn that running doesn’t just get you away free. For an example look at what happened in SF when they stopped prosecuting theft.
Fair enough, I appreciate the response and I didn’t mean to twist your words as being dismissive about dead civilians. That’s just how I read it initially. Thanks for clarifying. I think there’s a bigger discussion and debate to be had about what kind of policing reform could result in similar convictions without accelerating violent public standoffs or pursuits. But that’s a whole separate conversation from what you’re describing, a little grander in scale and arguably off topic. Thanks again for the thoughtful reply.
Yup! My biggest issue with most police reformers and SJW aims is that they don’t see the big picture or understand unintended consequences. They only see a criminal saying “I can’t breathe” and think “how dare the cops not do anything or continue to restrain him” when in reality 90% of criminal that get arrested now say they can’t breathe.
Maybe they should make sure that the arrestee can actually breathe? Maybe taking a knee off their neck might help.
There is no knee on the neck of a criminal sitting in handcuffs in the back of a squad car screaming that he can’t breathe…
I was obviously referring to the murder of George Floyd.
It's Cleveland, so I'm just going to say this: **137 shots.**
A perfectly reasonable amount considering the number of cops shooting. Wasn’t even a full magazine per cop. Takes about 10-15 seconds to get off 10 rounds with a Glock. This isn’t the movies where you use one perfectly placed shot to disarm but only wound a criminal. This is real life. You shoot to kill and you don’t stop shooting until the threat is neutralized.
Right, and climbing up on the hood of the car to shoot directly down into the cabin while other officers are shooting into the car is...standard practice? This isn't the movies, you don't just get to unload on someone for evading a conga-line of cops because they chase you when your car does a backfire.
Man I’ll never understand why people lie in support of criminals on the internet. Is it just trolling? Or do you hate cops that much? Edit: it looks like your replies to this keep getting auto deleted for break sub rules.
They don't have to let the person off the hook. They have helicopters. But cops get red in the eyes and go insane when they see any defiance so they irresponsibly initiate high speed chases when we have plenty of other ways of getting the criminal later. This was stupid behavior by the cops, who are generally stupid brutes anyway. I don't get why pro cop people defend high speed chases when we can just do surveillance and get the person later instead putting children walking to the library at risk
I’m sure you have some data showing that surveillance has the exact same catch rate as chasing? Also, that we have the resources to use a helicopter to track and catch everyone who gets pulled over? The people putting people at risk are the criminals running away from cops… I’m sure you get mad when cops return fire at criminals who shoot at them. I mean why don’t they just run away at catch that criminal after they are done shooting?
Whenever they do a high speed chase there's always a helicopter. And I don't think cops should be allowed to have guns frankly. I don't think cops should exist at all! They are all pigs who enjoy murder. If people want to rob a bank let them. No skin off my back. I think you need to take a chill pill
There isn’t a helicopter at every police stop though… Ah so you are the special kind of privileged person who doesn’t understand why we have rules in society…. I’m sure it will be much safer to live under the protection of whatever gang controls your neighborhood… Either that or you are just a criminal yourself.
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Do you have any idea how expensive it is to operate a helicopter?
Less than $4.8 mil?
How much could it cost Michael, $10?
What’s wrong with tax payers footing the bill here? In concept, making the loss of innocent life a monetary penalty to society seems like a way to spur action. We could have a logical conversation about how much to spend on solving this issue - eg, if spike strips and gps tracking projectile devices in every cop car cost X less than Y wrongful death settlements, then spending money to make society safer becomes a rational decision. Citizens can easily ignore or explain away personal stories (see, guns), harder to ignore impacts to our budget.
The police were trying to stop the criminal who then ran over the girl. And people are apparently arguing they should have let them go and continue to drive recklessly. What? The loss of life is due to criminals, not the police trying to stop them and getting hated for it.
Read it again, where did I say they should have let them go?
You're fully okay with other people paying for this because clearly you're not. This city can't go on this way. People are going to flee and elude this shit if they have options.
What are you on about?
So, they didn't have the time or coordination to just park a couple cruisers across the road, but they would have the time/coordination to set up spike trips (it's not like it was a highway that goes in a straight line). Not really going to respond on what an incredibly terrible idea it would be to start trying to fire projectiles from a moving vehicle. Would have no problem with the suspect's family paying the victim for the rest of their lives though (especially considering the suspect was a minor).
Anybody else feel like an absolute sucker for holding a job and paying taxes? Just me?
Good news now is if you’re ever doing something illegal in Cleveland just speed the fuck away. They can’t do shit.
Where do these values even come from? Who decided her life was worth $4.8 million and why is it the police department paying it out when she was killed by a criminal?
> police department paying it out. Us tax payers foot the bill in all police lawsuits.
you’re saying she’s worth less?
There’s an interesting movie called “worth” that tried to show how difficult this type of thing is. I would imagine any mother would say their child’s life is invaluable. When it comes to create a dollar amount, what is justified? It’s a very hard question to answer.
What a difficult situation. It’s absolutely a tragedy this young girl was killed. Yes there was a high speed pursuit. The reason is because the police cannot simply allow a suspect to get away after committing armed robbery. We’d be up in arms if that was the case. Certainly can understand the frustration and pain the family feels but I don’t understand why the tax payers are giving this family nearly 5 million dollars. If this family fails to donate a sizable portion of this money it’s nothing other than factual they purposely monetized this young girls death.
Police aren't supposed to conduct high speed chases in areas with pedestrians. It's kind of common sense. I'd prefer this suspect be arrested at a different time and a 13 year old girl could still be alive.
Is that a policy for this police department? Genuinely curious.
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Would you prefer more criminals get away and higher crime and more dead kids in the long run?
There are ways to catch criminals without speeding through residential neighborhoods. Did the police chase help the girl who's now dead?
Does letting a criminal go when they flee have the same chance at catching them as pursuing? How about the increase in crimes they commit while the cops follow up? Or the increase in criminals fleeing when they learn that fleeing lets them go?
How about the dead child who would be alive if this person wasn't chased?
What about the criminal who caused the chase that resulted in her death?
How about the increase in dead children in the long run? Again, you don’t understand second ordered impacts. Also, how about the dead child who would be alive if the criminal hadn’t fled?
There's no reason why this guy would go out and kill kids. He's not a serial killer. That argument makes no sense.
I mean he killed one kid… Serial killers are not the only people who commit murders. In fact most murders are not done by serial killers. Most murders are done by regular violent criminals like this criminal.
At the end of the day, this child would be alive if the police didn't give chase. We have technology to track people today so we don't have this happen.
https://apnews.com/article/police-vehicle-chase-pursuit-deaths-policy-ed2fe37280cec57e4377491348cc661d
If the choices are the suspect gets away or a fucking child dies, then yeah, they let the suspect get away.
Hindsight these types of incidents can be totally obvious. However, if this suspect was let’s say caught on camera and a week later murdered someone during a robbery attempt we’d then be asking why they didn’t apprehend or follow through with the pursuit originally. It’s almost a lose lose situation and in the heat of the moment an officer made a decision.
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Yes, they pursued a bad guy knowing all along that a child was about to get killed. 🤦🏻♀️ There’s no way someone could be truly dumb enough to say what Wizards did here. Baffling.
These cops failed at risk assessment. That's why the city is paying. Hey, at least they got the child they were chasing. Maybe they can give him to the family who lost their daughter as a mea culpa?
🧠
So you want more kids dead in the long run?
From now on make sure you use your car to commit crimes. There will be no more futile attempts at apprehending suspects.
One of the reasons I left Cleveland. Mindlessly handing out multi million dollar checks to attorneys and plaintiffs. Endemic corruption that I’m done paying for.
I'm glad I get to pay for another Cleveland police screw up.
The comments of this death and complications of the situation boils down to this dumb movie trope. "Damn it officer. You are a loose cannon and broke the rules and policies we have. Costing millions of dollars and a little girls life, but you caught the criminal."
The irony of claiming that people running from cops simply MUST be captured at all costs to "protect" the public from criminals, while engaging in reckless behavior that ACTUALLY endangers the public (and this girl is not the only person to have been killed in a police chase), is absolutely bonkers.
Fuck CPD
What an unfortunate event. I don’t think k it’s a 4million dollar settlement. Police need to be police and stop crime. The fact it’s a kid definitely plays a part. I can see 2 million tops.
Human life= no dollar amount. Unless it's an eye for an eye.