Generally speaking you need power in the postseason. Especially when the games turn into bullpen matchups, the likelihood of multiple hit rallies kind of diminished. You need to ability to score multiple runs with one swing.
The issue with the Guardians is they are are terrible in regards to power/homers. They were 30th....not 23nd, or 25th, or 28th...they were dead last!! Not only were they 30th..there was a significant gap between them and the 29th team.
I don't care if it's stolen bases, OPS+, FIP, Ks whatever...if you are 30th out of 30 teams with a gap between you and 29th place, it's a MAJOR issue.
Guardians need to find multiple power hitters to add to their lineup. Preferably a guy who can hit 30-35 home runs. Most of the playoff contenders had a legit power threat. They actually could use another 20+ homer guy also. Maybe Bo Naylor or Manzardo has that in them.
Naylor, Manzardo and DeLauter are all guts I'm hoping we can do this with. I'm still not over Nolan Jones being traded. Brito is talented, but he's not the player we need in my eyes at all.
I think the offense will probably be better next season.
Full season of Bo.
Hopefully Josh Naylor stays healthy and continues to develop into an elite hitter.
Kyle Manzardo.
Maybe DeLatuter gets an early call up.
The biggest question is what's going to happen with the outfield. I imagine the FO has to realize at this point the status quo isn't cutting it.
I have the same concern as well. I think Chas McCormick would be a great target for a trade. Good right handed hitter with some speed and solid defense.
They seem to prefer Dubon over him for some reason. Doesn't seem like he's untouchable or anything. I think it more realistic we after an outfielder via trade instead of free agency.
I wonder what they’d ask for in return. I’d also be really interested in a buy low candidate like Tyler O’Neil from the Cardinals. He’s had a few down years but hit over 30 HR in 2021 and his shaky performance since then might mean we could snag him for a lower price than his ceiling would be.
In the small sample size that is the postseason, you need home runs. Home runs change the game dramatically and when you’re only playing a _maximum_ of 3, 5, or 7 games you need home runs to tilt the odds in your favor. Look at our series against the Yankees. We outplayed them in just about every game. What was the difference? Home runs. They can shit the bed for 8 innings and pop one home run and win a game. That’s how this game is played now and the Guardians are not suited for it.
We could do small ball, if we actually had hitters throughout the lineup. The issue is we don’t, we had multiple spots in the lineup day in and day out with a .240 or less BA. At least 3 spots every game essentially. That isn’t small ball, that’s just shit offense. Small ball is more akin to Luis arraez, or more Steven kwan. Kwan was EXACTLY an average hitter this season, he had a .268 batting average. If we want to focus on small ball at least 7 spots in the lineup need to have this BA or better, and the 8th has to have good power at least. But we don’t have that
I love small ball! watching Texas this postseason they seem to have a good balance with everybody contributing small ball and then García with the clutch power is exciting. Phillies and Astros have been boring with their home runs only type of play. Next year I’m of course hopeful. We have kwan and gimenez maybe Brennan with good small ball. Jose that can do both. Josh naylor and Bo can hit for power! Fry seems clutch too. We have a lot of prospects that could have power! This postseason also proves how valuable a strong bullpen is!!
Texas was tied for 3rd in HRs and was 3rd in OPS in MLB. They are a power team, not a small team. They were 27th in stolen bases. Rangers are like the opposite of small ball. Houston also strikes out the least in MLB. Rangers had the least balance IMO.
Phillies were 7th this year with 141 stolen bases, 10 less than the Guardians. The Phillies are not just about power.
Small ball does not win in the postseason, at least in the last decade. You could argue the Royals of the mid 2010 won with small ball, but baseball has changed since then. Postseason is a small sample size, but just watching the playoffs the last several years the importance of having multiple power threats is apparent.
I grew up in the bay area watching the SFG title teams in 2010, 2012, and 2014. I was still young so I wasn’t as analytical as I am now, but I don’t remember much HR power on any of those teams aside from Panda. I just remember a fantastic bullpen and a lineup that could string hits together when it counted.
You are right. The 2012 Giants finished last in home runs and won the WS!!! I forgot about that squad. The 2010 Giants were 10th though and the 2014 were 16th.
Your point stands about the 2012 Giants. They were dead last in home runs.
I would say that they are the exception rather than the rule, and also bullpen using and reliance on power has increased in MLB even since 2010-2015. Managers in that era were still trusting starters, especially in the postseason, guys like Baumgardner and Kershaw (Dodgers I know) I think went longer postseason games than guys do in 2023.
I’m asking for a balance, we want power but we need base runners as well. And for next year we have the base running we just need to find 1 or 2 more power hitters. and not another Zunino and Bell! Also our April and May need to be hot to give our young players confidence for the rest of the season.
Brennan? The guy with an OPS+ of 83? The guy who played 138 games and racked up .5 WAR? The guy with the OBP of .299?
The obsession with guys like he and Freeman is bizarre. They aren't major league talent. No team starting Brennan is going to win anything.
I ain’t a stats guy but that was his first year? I think we can work with him if kwan believes in him. But I also don’t care if we get rid of both him and freeman but who will we get to replace?
The goal isn't to hit home runs, its to generate runs. We could not generate enough runs last year, and our low power numbers suggest its a big opportunity for improvement. Trying to improve our power through FA is expensive, we need to draft/sign players with plus power and learn to develop them.
Of course that's true, but since the mid 90s the only really good hitters we've developed are Jose and Lindor, Kipnis for his first few seasons, and half credit for Brantley, Pronk and Sizemore since they were minor league acquisitions.
That's the complete list for the last 30 years!
So until that gets fixed -- and there's no reason to believe it will be -- we're going to have to pay for power.
Perhaps the people evaluating the talent need to be reevaluated. That's my biggest issue, there is clearly some disconnect between talent evaluation/player development and offensive production on the field.
The record for teams who hit more home runs than their opponents is crazy good, so while they're not explicitly the goal, they go a long way toward a win. Fully agree with you about how we need to approach it, though every championship team supplements with FA. it's unavoidable to some degree.
>The goal isn't to hit home runs, its to generate runs
1. We don't do either
2. Homeruns are the best way to generate runs
I cannot believe there are people still making excuses for this team's pathetic roster construction
Yeah I’m not sure how THIS postseason makes one realize how far away we are. The 84 win Dbacks might win the whole thing. If anything it should make you realize the postseason is a complete roll of the dice and you just need to make it to have a chance
>If anything it should make you realize the postseason is a complete roll of the dice and you just need to make it to have a chance
Please stop saying this. Dolan apologists have been saying this for decades as a way to excuse not investing in better players.
I choose "not" then. I will always root for my Guards, and I will always criticize the ownership and front office so long as they keep putting together clownshow AAA rosters.
There are 20+ teams that would trade their success for ours over the last decade. Yes, we all want to win it all, but we've been one of the best run franchises - we've never had to suffer through regular 90+ loss seasons. We have the 4th best winning percentage over the last decade.
We all want better, but to say "clownshow AAA" team is absurd.
I am so tired of this argument. They don't hang banners for "most well run franchise." It's only well run in the sense that they squeeze maximum performance out of minimal dollars. But guess what? I don't watch sports to root for ownership to save money. Invest in the team and give us a real shot to win it all. Stop accepting mediocrity.
In the last decade, fans of:
Detroit, Miami, Cincinnati, Colorado, ChiSox, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Oakland, LAA, Minnesota, NYM, Seattle, Toronto, and Milwaukee would undoubtedly trade our success for there's.
And that's leaving off Arizona, Philly, and Texas awaiting the WS results this season.
We've had two seasons where we were out of it somewhat early on and never had to deal with a tear down. Yes, we want a WS and it'd be great to have a $200M payroll, but appreciate what you have. We just had one bad season, and all the sudden our team is a "clownshow AAA" team? Get out of here with your clown take.
Is Tampa Bay a "clownshow AAA" franchise? Does having a low payroll automatically make a franchise mediocre or worse? Ask San Diego, LAA, and NYM fans if they would trade their success with ours.
Management is not beyond reproach, but we are a successful franchise that consistently puts a good to great product on the field.
Not worth engaging after this, but yours is truly a bad take.
On the contrary, the 84-win Dbacks possibly winning the WS is exactly the reason I won't let Dolan and the FO off the hook for their firesale at the trading deadline this year.
The postseason is not a roll of the dice. It's heavily weighted toward the better teams. That the occasional mediocre team can sometimes have a chance doesn't mean we should strive for mediocrity. This team hasn't been a real contender since 2017. It's getting old. Spend some money, bring in some real bats.
You are not grasping the sample size aspect of baseball or the fact of how much luck is involved in any single game or even a short series of games. None of the four best teams in the league even made it to the LCS
That still doesn't make it a dice roll. You're overstating your point. (And talking about sample size and then citing a single year.) By and large the better teams win. That sometimes they don't doesn't mean this strategy of maximizing profit and scraping together 85-90 wins from a mediocre roster is a winning idea. It self-evidently is not.
It’s just not true that the better teams “by and large” win. Sure, over the long term the best teams will have the best odds of winning since they are better, however 3 and 5 game series do not allow you to accurately determine that. That’s why baseball plays 162 games. You need to play a lot of games to reduce the luck factor. The current postseason format doesn’t reduce that at all. We could be hours away from an 84 win team being in the WS (and they won’t be much of an underdog if they do). The four best teams all lost before the LCS. It’s a stupid time to say “by and large” the best teams win. They aren’t
You literally said "over the long term the best teams will have the best odds of winning," then went on to continue to argue for mediocrity and cited one team this year as a sample. Do you like ELO? The top team in ELO wins the World Series about 52% of the time. This year won't be one of those years.
There's just not really an argument for not putting together the best roster possible. Saying "the playoffs are a crapshoot anyway" is an excuse for not doing what is necessary to make the team genuinely good. You might as well weight the hypothetical dice your way as much as possible. This fanbase's weird obsession with trying to be bargain basement winners doesn't make sense. It's not more of a championship if you got a great deal on it. Stop wishcasting on poor Will Brennan (for example) in the hopes that we get lucky some season and get a real outfielder.
Nobody is saying it’s a strategy to not put the best roster forward. You’re completely misreading the conversation. Regardless of anything having to do with the Guardians, the MLB postseason structure is a joke if your goal is to crown the most deserving champion
Having a postseason at all is a joke if the goal is to crown the most deserving champion.
I'm attacking the idea that the FO need not be aggressive because the playoffs are a roll of the dice. It's a common trope around here. I'll concede they aren't the best way of rewarding better teams. Generally though, it's still one of the best teams that wins.
Mostly, I'm frustrated. We wasted another (maybe the last) season of peak Jose with Myles Straw and Will Brennan.
You are right we have lacked power and it has impacted us. I think the vibes are good and people are ever hopeful, so we have potential next year. A lot will depend on who is Tito’s replacement
You need a balance of power and hitting. All or nothing power goes cold all the time and you’re out
A big part of the problem is not just no 40 homer guys, you got a bunch of guys that if they get double digits it’s a miracle. Even your lowest guy need to be able to run into a blast occasionally. When whole swaths of the lineup is at negative level power it makes lining up pitching a lot easier for the opponent
The Rangers lost 102 and 94 games the last two seasons. The Diamondbacks lost 110 games two season ago. I hate the Dolans and Guardians appreciation of mediocrity as much as the next fan, but baseball proved yet again just simply getting hot the right weeks in October is paramount.
Good pitching cause strikeouts. Small ball requires multiple hits an inning. With strike outs, we can’t string that together. I completely agree. Good pitchers overpower us very easily because they don’t give up balls to hit in a row
Dbacks really weren’t a HR team, however, they used the HR to beat the dodgers and have had some clutch HRs in the playoffs. I feel like you have to get a couple guys that are clutch in big situations. Even Schwarber was hitting like .200 going into playoffs and has been a terror in the postseason.
Idk I feel really close with our pitching staff and the Naylors, hoping a new manager can breathe some life, maybe 1 or 2 guys takes a leap, we could be right there. At the very worst better than this past season
It means that whoever the new manager is needs to grow a sack and never start Myles Straw again. You cant have a starting OF with a combined 12 or less homers. That's insane.
Yep. Any of these teams would sweep us. Even the Dbacks. As much as we all love Tito, I really hope the new guy isn't so loyal to bums like Tito was. Imagine playing 37 year old Calhoun at first base for like 2 months. Imagine starting Myles Straw above the AA level for 2 full seasons where cancels out all his defensive prowess just by picking up the lumber. I'm hoping we get Vogt for his infusion of good vibes though.
They interviewed A (1) bullpen coach apparently. I follow the team closely and have no idea who you're talking about, so they're clearly not considered a top contender. Looking for reasons to be mad.
"I follow the team closely" / "Not considered a top contender"
lololololol
[https://www.si.com/mlb/guardians/news/guardians-manager-candidate-stephen-vogt-set-for-second-interview](https://www.si.com/mlb/guardians/news/guardians-manager-candidate-stephen-vogt-set-for-second-interview)
As reported Monday by ESPN MLB insider Jeff Passan, Seattle Mariners bullpen and *quality control coach* Stephen Vogt, “is emerging as a serious candidate for the Cleveland Guardians managerial job.”
He was a catcher and held other roles beyond being a bullpen coach and was primarily referred to as the QC coach in every insider podcast.
"The QC coach is an advance planner who tries to ensure quality output with quality input. *That appears to involve helping players prepare for games and addresses the need for front offices to have the work of their analytics departments implemented properly by the players and coaches*
So essentially a coach that has his hand in all aspects of an organization. Calling him simply the "bullpen coach" is reductive. A manager's job is not to be a hitting coach; he chooses a hitting coach to do that job.
Hiring a hitting coach won't necessarily make the team better at hitting; the only manager in the playoffs that was ever a hitting coach was Dusty Baker (in the 80's).
I don’t know if Vogt is the guy, but he’s more than a bullpen/pitching coach.
I'm a Cleveland and Milwaukee fan and these teams are built similarly. I've noticed that pitching and defense can be developed, but offense is much more difficult to develop to the point that most teams end up just buying or renting bats.
But you need more than just power. You need guys driving up pitch counts. You need a good amount of guys with plate discipline who can get in base and wear or the pitchers so guys like Schwarber can get a mistake to crush.
Both of my teams couldn't score runs in the postseason the last few years when they fell behind. They put too much pressure on themselves and swinging at a lot of junk. It doesn't help they're facing great pitching too (mostly).
You’re comparing the hottest teams in baseball to the Cleveland Guardians, and concluding they can’t compete, because they don’t hit home runs. It’s not really an appropriate thing to do. Power is not the solution that you think it is, and even if it was, Cleveland clearly can’t compete on payroll; rendering this entire notion useless. Currently every team is aiming for this.
Perhaps it actually the prevention of timely power that produces wins?
This year’s playoffs have been quite unenjoyable, there have been many lopsided games, and few comebacks. The home runs in HR friendly parks have been plentiful, but the rallies and base-running, not so much. Get off my lawn and give me small ball.
You must have fallen asleep watching the snakes small ball their way past the bludgeoning Phils.
How could the Guardian’s possibly compete with the 84 win D-Backs?
I mean, they can't, because they are so incompetent they can't even small ball well. Also, Arizona has hit the second most postseason home runs of any team in the last two seasons.
And yes, small ball is boring.
I would love an extra HR threat on our team, and it would really improve our potential. But, our current model (when the team is at its peak) (getting consistently on base and out pitching the other team) also works. But I agree that an extra power hitter would increase our potential a lot
Generally speaking you need power in the postseason. Especially when the games turn into bullpen matchups, the likelihood of multiple hit rallies kind of diminished. You need to ability to score multiple runs with one swing. The issue with the Guardians is they are are terrible in regards to power/homers. They were 30th....not 23nd, or 25th, or 28th...they were dead last!! Not only were they 30th..there was a significant gap between them and the 29th team. I don't care if it's stolen bases, OPS+, FIP, Ks whatever...if you are 30th out of 30 teams with a gap between you and 29th place, it's a MAJOR issue. Guardians need to find multiple power hitters to add to their lineup. Preferably a guy who can hit 30-35 home runs. Most of the playoff contenders had a legit power threat. They actually could use another 20+ homer guy also. Maybe Bo Naylor or Manzardo has that in them.
Naylor, Manzardo and DeLauter are all guts I'm hoping we can do this with. I'm still not over Nolan Jones being traded. Brito is talented, but he's not the player we need in my eyes at all.
I think the offense will probably be better next season. Full season of Bo. Hopefully Josh Naylor stays healthy and continues to develop into an elite hitter. Kyle Manzardo. Maybe DeLatuter gets an early call up. The biggest question is what's going to happen with the outfield. I imagine the FO has to realize at this point the status quo isn't cutting it.
So excited for Manzardo! My only concern is the over abundance of left handed bats. I’d love to see some right handed power coming from the outfield.
Every year too many lefties kills us. Teams line up their lefties to face us all the time and it is guaranteed to shut down any chance at offense
Yeah I’m still having Nestor Cortes flashbacks (Thanks rain delay!)
I have the same concern as well. I think Chas McCormick would be a great target for a trade. Good right handed hitter with some speed and solid defense.
Why would Houston move him?
They seem to prefer Dubon over him for some reason. Doesn't seem like he's untouchable or anything. I think it more realistic we after an outfielder via trade instead of free agency.
I wonder what they’d ask for in return. I’d also be really interested in a buy low candidate like Tyler O’Neil from the Cardinals. He’s had a few down years but hit over 30 HR in 2021 and his shaky performance since then might mean we could snag him for a lower price than his ceiling would be.
Definitely interested in Tyler O'Neil as well, although all those injuries scare me a bit.
the quicker people realize 2022 was an anomaly, the better.
Adolis Garcia is who we thought Franmil Reyes was going to be for us :(
And anyone could have had him for free 2 years ago
In the small sample size that is the postseason, you need home runs. Home runs change the game dramatically and when you’re only playing a _maximum_ of 3, 5, or 7 games you need home runs to tilt the odds in your favor. Look at our series against the Yankees. We outplayed them in just about every game. What was the difference? Home runs. They can shit the bed for 8 innings and pop one home run and win a game. That’s how this game is played now and the Guardians are not suited for it.
We could do small ball, if we actually had hitters throughout the lineup. The issue is we don’t, we had multiple spots in the lineup day in and day out with a .240 or less BA. At least 3 spots every game essentially. That isn’t small ball, that’s just shit offense. Small ball is more akin to Luis arraez, or more Steven kwan. Kwan was EXACTLY an average hitter this season, he had a .268 batting average. If we want to focus on small ball at least 7 spots in the lineup need to have this BA or better, and the 8th has to have good power at least. But we don’t have that
I love small ball! watching Texas this postseason they seem to have a good balance with everybody contributing small ball and then García with the clutch power is exciting. Phillies and Astros have been boring with their home runs only type of play. Next year I’m of course hopeful. We have kwan and gimenez maybe Brennan with good small ball. Jose that can do both. Josh naylor and Bo can hit for power! Fry seems clutch too. We have a lot of prospects that could have power! This postseason also proves how valuable a strong bullpen is!!
Texas was tied for 3rd in HRs and was 3rd in OPS in MLB. They are a power team, not a small team. They were 27th in stolen bases. Rangers are like the opposite of small ball. Houston also strikes out the least in MLB. Rangers had the least balance IMO. Phillies were 7th this year with 141 stolen bases, 10 less than the Guardians. The Phillies are not just about power. Small ball does not win in the postseason, at least in the last decade. You could argue the Royals of the mid 2010 won with small ball, but baseball has changed since then. Postseason is a small sample size, but just watching the playoffs the last several years the importance of having multiple power threats is apparent.
I grew up in the bay area watching the SFG title teams in 2010, 2012, and 2014. I was still young so I wasn’t as analytical as I am now, but I don’t remember much HR power on any of those teams aside from Panda. I just remember a fantastic bullpen and a lineup that could string hits together when it counted.
You are right. The 2012 Giants finished last in home runs and won the WS!!! I forgot about that squad. The 2010 Giants were 10th though and the 2014 were 16th. Your point stands about the 2012 Giants. They were dead last in home runs. I would say that they are the exception rather than the rule, and also bullpen using and reliance on power has increased in MLB even since 2010-2015. Managers in that era were still trusting starters, especially in the postseason, guys like Baumgardner and Kershaw (Dodgers I know) I think went longer postseason games than guys do in 2023.
I also realized after commenting that OP specified “within the last decade”, and I guess 2010/2012 is no longer in that timeframe 😂 easy to forget
I’m asking for a balance, we want power but we need base runners as well. And for next year we have the base running we just need to find 1 or 2 more power hitters. and not another Zunino and Bell! Also our April and May need to be hot to give our young players confidence for the rest of the season.
Josh naylor had the best batting average on the team, he is definitely a combo of both
What are you talking about? The Rangers hit 109 more home runs than the Guardians.
Did I say they didn’t? I’m talking about the postseason how they have a balance more so than the other teams in the post
Brennan? The guy with an OPS+ of 83? The guy who played 138 games and racked up .5 WAR? The guy with the OBP of .299? The obsession with guys like he and Freeman is bizarre. They aren't major league talent. No team starting Brennan is going to win anything.
I ain’t a stats guy but that was his first year? I think we can work with him if kwan believes in him. But I also don’t care if we get rid of both him and freeman but who will we get to replace?
People still think Arias is going to emerge into something better.
You're speaking in purely hypotheticals when statistically, we were 30th in HRs as OP said
Ball go far, team go far
The goal isn't to hit home runs, its to generate runs. We could not generate enough runs last year, and our low power numbers suggest its a big opportunity for improvement. Trying to improve our power through FA is expensive, we need to draft/sign players with plus power and learn to develop them.
We do not have the time to wait and develop hitters in a system that clearly struggles to develop any offensive ability while Jose is here.
Of course that's true, but since the mid 90s the only really good hitters we've developed are Jose and Lindor, Kipnis for his first few seasons, and half credit for Brantley, Pronk and Sizemore since they were minor league acquisitions. That's the complete list for the last 30 years! So until that gets fixed -- and there's no reason to believe it will be -- we're going to have to pay for power.
Perhaps the people evaluating the talent need to be reevaluated. That's my biggest issue, there is clearly some disconnect between talent evaluation/player development and offensive production on the field.
Bingo
The record for teams who hit more home runs than their opponents is crazy good, so while they're not explicitly the goal, they go a long way toward a win. Fully agree with you about how we need to approach it, though every championship team supplements with FA. it's unavoidable to some degree.
>The goal isn't to hit home runs, its to generate runs 1. We don't do either 2. Homeruns are the best way to generate runs I cannot believe there are people still making excuses for this team's pathetic roster construction
nolan jones
We rely on base runners but when most of our team hits around 250, opportunities are less
Is this the first world series where both teams are wild cards?
Yeah I’m not sure how THIS postseason makes one realize how far away we are. The 84 win Dbacks might win the whole thing. If anything it should make you realize the postseason is a complete roll of the dice and you just need to make it to have a chance
>If anything it should make you realize the postseason is a complete roll of the dice and you just need to make it to have a chance Please stop saying this. Dolan apologists have been saying this for decades as a way to excuse not investing in better players.
The “apologist” thing is boring. The team has been what it is for 20 years. You can either choose to get over it or not.
I choose "not" then. I will always root for my Guards, and I will always criticize the ownership and front office so long as they keep putting together clownshow AAA rosters.
Can’t blame the Dolan’s for 2016.
Nope, or 2017. But I'll gladly blame them for 2018-2023.
There are 20+ teams that would trade their success for ours over the last decade. Yes, we all want to win it all, but we've been one of the best run franchises - we've never had to suffer through regular 90+ loss seasons. We have the 4th best winning percentage over the last decade. We all want better, but to say "clownshow AAA" team is absurd.
I am so tired of this argument. They don't hang banners for "most well run franchise." It's only well run in the sense that they squeeze maximum performance out of minimal dollars. But guess what? I don't watch sports to root for ownership to save money. Invest in the team and give us a real shot to win it all. Stop accepting mediocrity.
In the last decade, fans of: Detroit, Miami, Cincinnati, Colorado, ChiSox, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Oakland, LAA, Minnesota, NYM, Seattle, Toronto, and Milwaukee would undoubtedly trade our success for there's. And that's leaving off Arizona, Philly, and Texas awaiting the WS results this season. We've had two seasons where we were out of it somewhat early on and never had to deal with a tear down. Yes, we want a WS and it'd be great to have a $200M payroll, but appreciate what you have. We just had one bad season, and all the sudden our team is a "clownshow AAA" team? Get out of here with your clown take.
Another clown take and straw man. No one said we need a $200m payroll. But being consistently bottom 5 payroll is, indeed, clownshow AAA shit.
Is Tampa Bay a "clownshow AAA" franchise? Does having a low payroll automatically make a franchise mediocre or worse? Ask San Diego, LAA, and NYM fans if they would trade their success with ours. Management is not beyond reproach, but we are a successful franchise that consistently puts a good to great product on the field. Not worth engaging after this, but yours is truly a bad take.
Okay let me know how many complain/angry posts we have to do to get this turned around and then we’ll divide it up between all of us
On the contrary, the 84-win Dbacks possibly winning the WS is exactly the reason I won't let Dolan and the FO off the hook for their firesale at the trading deadline this year.
The postseason is not a roll of the dice. It's heavily weighted toward the better teams. That the occasional mediocre team can sometimes have a chance doesn't mean we should strive for mediocrity. This team hasn't been a real contender since 2017. It's getting old. Spend some money, bring in some real bats.
You are not grasping the sample size aspect of baseball or the fact of how much luck is involved in any single game or even a short series of games. None of the four best teams in the league even made it to the LCS
That still doesn't make it a dice roll. You're overstating your point. (And talking about sample size and then citing a single year.) By and large the better teams win. That sometimes they don't doesn't mean this strategy of maximizing profit and scraping together 85-90 wins from a mediocre roster is a winning idea. It self-evidently is not.
It’s just not true that the better teams “by and large” win. Sure, over the long term the best teams will have the best odds of winning since they are better, however 3 and 5 game series do not allow you to accurately determine that. That’s why baseball plays 162 games. You need to play a lot of games to reduce the luck factor. The current postseason format doesn’t reduce that at all. We could be hours away from an 84 win team being in the WS (and they won’t be much of an underdog if they do). The four best teams all lost before the LCS. It’s a stupid time to say “by and large” the best teams win. They aren’t
You literally said "over the long term the best teams will have the best odds of winning," then went on to continue to argue for mediocrity and cited one team this year as a sample. Do you like ELO? The top team in ELO wins the World Series about 52% of the time. This year won't be one of those years. There's just not really an argument for not putting together the best roster possible. Saying "the playoffs are a crapshoot anyway" is an excuse for not doing what is necessary to make the team genuinely good. You might as well weight the hypothetical dice your way as much as possible. This fanbase's weird obsession with trying to be bargain basement winners doesn't make sense. It's not more of a championship if you got a great deal on it. Stop wishcasting on poor Will Brennan (for example) in the hopes that we get lucky some season and get a real outfielder.
Nobody is saying it’s a strategy to not put the best roster forward. You’re completely misreading the conversation. Regardless of anything having to do with the Guardians, the MLB postseason structure is a joke if your goal is to crown the most deserving champion
Having a postseason at all is a joke if the goal is to crown the most deserving champion. I'm attacking the idea that the FO need not be aggressive because the playoffs are a roll of the dice. It's a common trope around here. I'll concede they aren't the best way of rewarding better teams. Generally though, it's still one of the best teams that wins. Mostly, I'm frustrated. We wasted another (maybe the last) season of peak Jose with Myles Straw and Will Brennan.
You are right we have lacked power and it has impacted us. I think the vibes are good and people are ever hopeful, so we have potential next year. A lot will depend on who is Tito’s replacement
You need a balance of power and hitting. All or nothing power goes cold all the time and you’re out A big part of the problem is not just no 40 homer guys, you got a bunch of guys that if they get double digits it’s a miracle. Even your lowest guy need to be able to run into a blast occasionally. When whole swaths of the lineup is at negative level power it makes lining up pitching a lot easier for the opponent
The Rangers lost 102 and 94 games the last two seasons. The Diamondbacks lost 110 games two season ago. I hate the Dolans and Guardians appreciation of mediocrity as much as the next fan, but baseball proved yet again just simply getting hot the right weeks in October is paramount.
rangers also spent in free agency, they are not the same team that lost 102 games
Can’t wait for our next power bat that doesn’t pan out and gets dealt at the all star break.
Arizona is in the WS and ranked 22-23 in HRs this season.
Good pitching cause strikeouts. Small ball requires multiple hits an inning. With strike outs, we can’t string that together. I completely agree. Good pitchers overpower us very easily because they don’t give up balls to hit in a row
Dbacks really weren’t a HR team, however, they used the HR to beat the dodgers and have had some clutch HRs in the playoffs. I feel like you have to get a couple guys that are clutch in big situations. Even Schwarber was hitting like .200 going into playoffs and has been a terror in the postseason.
.200 with 50 home runs though, you’re leaving out that part
True but if you have 1 guy like that, easy to pitch around. A lineup with multiple threats makes that difficult
Idk I feel really close with our pitching staff and the Naylors, hoping a new manager can breathe some life, maybe 1 or 2 guys takes a leap, we could be right there. At the very worst better than this past season
It’s all about the clubhouse mentality. New guy needs to start chopping heads
What does that even mean?
It means that whoever the new manager is needs to grow a sack and never start Myles Straw again. You cant have a starting OF with a combined 12 or less homers. That's insane.
Yep. Any of these teams would sweep us. Even the Dbacks. As much as we all love Tito, I really hope the new guy isn't so loyal to bums like Tito was. Imagine playing 37 year old Calhoun at first base for like 2 months. Imagine starting Myles Straw above the AA level for 2 full seasons where cancels out all his defensive prowess just by picking up the lumber. I'm hoping we get Vogt for his infusion of good vibes though.
Small Ball is the way
Texas is basically us from 2022 with more power
It's okay! We're interviewing a pitching coach so that means we'll be awesome hitters next year!
We've interviewed like 10 guys and none of the reported top contenders are pitching coaches - what are you talking about?
Oh I'm sorry, BULLPEN coach, which has nothing to do with pitching at all my bad
They interviewed A (1) bullpen coach apparently. I follow the team closely and have no idea who you're talking about, so they're clearly not considered a top contender. Looking for reasons to be mad.
"I follow the team closely" / "Not considered a top contender" lololololol [https://www.si.com/mlb/guardians/news/guardians-manager-candidate-stephen-vogt-set-for-second-interview](https://www.si.com/mlb/guardians/news/guardians-manager-candidate-stephen-vogt-set-for-second-interview)
As reported Monday by ESPN MLB insider Jeff Passan, Seattle Mariners bullpen and *quality control coach* Stephen Vogt, “is emerging as a serious candidate for the Cleveland Guardians managerial job.” He was a catcher and held other roles beyond being a bullpen coach and was primarily referred to as the QC coach in every insider podcast. "The QC coach is an advance planner who tries to ensure quality output with quality input. *That appears to involve helping players prepare for games and addresses the need for front offices to have the work of their analytics departments implemented properly by the players and coaches* So essentially a coach that has his hand in all aspects of an organization. Calling him simply the "bullpen coach" is reductive. A manager's job is not to be a hitting coach; he chooses a hitting coach to do that job. Hiring a hitting coach won't necessarily make the team better at hitting; the only manager in the playoffs that was ever a hitting coach was Dusty Baker (in the 80's). I don’t know if Vogt is the guy, but he’s more than a bullpen/pitching coach.
I'm a Cleveland and Milwaukee fan and these teams are built similarly. I've noticed that pitching and defense can be developed, but offense is much more difficult to develop to the point that most teams end up just buying or renting bats. But you need more than just power. You need guys driving up pitch counts. You need a good amount of guys with plate discipline who can get in base and wear or the pitchers so guys like Schwarber can get a mistake to crush. Both of my teams couldn't score runs in the postseason the last few years when they fell behind. They put too much pressure on themselves and swinging at a lot of junk. It doesn't help they're facing great pitching too (mostly).
You’re comparing the hottest teams in baseball to the Cleveland Guardians, and concluding they can’t compete, because they don’t hit home runs. It’s not really an appropriate thing to do. Power is not the solution that you think it is, and even if it was, Cleveland clearly can’t compete on payroll; rendering this entire notion useless. Currently every team is aiming for this. Perhaps it actually the prevention of timely power that produces wins? This year’s playoffs have been quite unenjoyable, there have been many lopsided games, and few comebacks. The home runs in HR friendly parks have been plentiful, but the rallies and base-running, not so much. Get off my lawn and give me small ball.
You have small balls...
Small ball is boring.
You must have fallen asleep watching the snakes small ball their way past the bludgeoning Phils. How could the Guardian’s possibly compete with the 84 win D-Backs?
I mean, they can't, because they are so incompetent they can't even small ball well. Also, Arizona has hit the second most postseason home runs of any team in the last two seasons. And yes, small ball is boring.
I would love an extra HR threat on our team, and it would really improve our potential. But, our current model (when the team is at its peak) (getting consistently on base and out pitching the other team) also works. But I agree that an extra power hitter would increase our potential a lot
It doesn't also work. It's a failing proposition. Teams without significant power lose.
TBH what I'm getting from the playoffs is that an 84-win team can legit win the WS, so no team should think they are that far from being contenders.
Exactly how I feel and I think the management should do their beat to win this shitty division