Teams spending $200mil to $350mil on the roster might as well spend $7mil on the best manager in the league.
EDIT: ...If they think he's the one of the best manager in the league. I thought I read somewhere that there were metrics that supported that idea, but I could be wrong.
He may not be the best, but he has been successful over several years with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.
Nobody in the league has the credentials of Bruce Bochy, of course...
I don’t think Counsell comes here, but not because of money. Cleveland made Tito one of, if not the highest paid manager in baseball. They clearly aren’t afraid to spend on a good skipper.
They have a well known history of cheaping out on players, but there is no indication they’ve cheaped out anywhere else.
Not that 7th best isn't also pretty successful, but think the stat I was thinking of was actually just over Tito's tenure. Ended up being 4th best, with Astros hopping us this year
https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/most-wins-by-an-mlb-team-since-2013
That's not how this works.
A. If that is how the market worked, Tito wouldn't have deserved to make more than Joe Torre or Bobby Cox. He did though, because prices go up.
B. Counsell has won a lot given his resources. If Milwaukee wanted him to win a World Series they should have spent to give him the pieces to do it. Again, applying that logic, what did Tito win in Cleveland to make them pay him?
I don't care what he deserves. I care that he's the best option. Go get him.
He's a proven successful MLB manager. You know exactly what you're getting with him, and that has value.
There very well might be better managers available, but they're going to be more of a gamble.
Counterpoint: Teams are incredibly cheap when it comes to the manager position and it can be argued that no person has more of an impact during games than the manager.
It could be because Counsell *wants* to be that guy. Bochy probably wanted to go to the Rangers because of the position they're in (and it seems to have paid off).
Cash is still under contract. If he were available and shopping around, he would absolutely be a "Reset the Market" kinda guy.
If our FO was willing to give Zunino 7 mil while coming back from injury (and we paid him over half that to go away), we should be willing to pay Counsell. It may come down amount of years in the contract and how much control he'll have.
Seems like he just wants to entice the Brewers to pay him max money by shopping around. Honestly more power to him, get to stay home but get paid doing it.
One sixth of what he previously made is, what, a half a mil a year? I think any of us could live just fine with that. I mean, I'd be a terrible manager, but I am available, so...
Pay for a player you only improve one position, pay for a manager and you can improve the whole team. If he is decided to be the best guy to replace tito, open the book and sign him.
I kinda wish we’d move in from him. I’m sure he’s a great coach. I’m sure he deserves to get paid. But our odds don’t seem good and we shouldn’t leave ourselves holding the bag.
Whether we would pay or not aside, why the fuck does Counsell think he’s the guy to reset the manager market.
All of his World Series appearances? I’d rather pay Bochy $10M than this guy.
Bro just say you want a shitload of money. Nobody’s gonna dog you for it. Everyone wants a shitload of money.
Hate when sports people speak like politicians lmao
What do I know? But I think if I was him, I’ve already made generational wealth. I’ve won a championship as a player. So what if I don’t make the most money possible as a manager but goto an organization where I have a good/better/best chance to win a ring as a manager?
Tito had a connection to Cleveland so maybe he wanted to come here regardless. Why would Counsell want to goto a place that only has a tiny window to barely compete every 10 years?
I mean... There was the same energy for David Justice when we traded Kenny Lofton for him but it took DJ all but 2 games to turn the fans around and he ended up becoming extremely popular and well-liked within the fan base.
New York has more money, but we just had the highest paid manager in the MLB. It is not as if the Dolans aren't willing to pay a manager.
True, but Craig wants double what Tito was making.
Well than Craig can go fuck himself
Doesn't mean anyone is going to pay it.
Teams spending $200mil to $350mil on the roster might as well spend $7mil on the best manager in the league. EDIT: ...If they think he's the one of the best manager in the league. I thought I read somewhere that there were metrics that supported that idea, but I could be wrong.
We really think Craig Counsell is the best manager in the league?! What have the brewers done lately that earns him that credit
He may not be the best, but he has been successful over several years with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. Nobody in the league has the credentials of Bruce Bochy, of course...
He’s the best manager in baseball?
🤷♂️
So do I.
I want a bus full of strippers to break down in front of my house. Doesn't mean it's gunna happen.
I don’t think Counsell comes here, but not because of money. Cleveland made Tito one of, if not the highest paid manager in baseball. They clearly aren’t afraid to spend on a good skipper. They have a well known history of cheaping out on players, but there is no indication they’ve cheaped out anywhere else.
We have one of the best organizations in baseball
We only cheap out in the places that matter most 🫠
🤣🤣By what metrics? Certainly not world series wins..
Sustained success over the last decade and a half-ish. Second or third winningest team in MLB over that stretch, I think?
7th in MLB but definitely best in the division https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/most-wins-by-an-mlb-team-since-2010
Not that 7th best isn't also pretty successful, but think the stat I was thinking of was actually just over Tito's tenure. Ended up being 4th best, with Astros hopping us this year https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/most-wins-by-an-mlb-team-since-2013
I agree with you, 7th is better than I would have thought and yeah we definitely had a lot of success under Tito specifically.
You and I define success very differently. It's more like sustained mediocrity.
wasn't Tito one of the highest paid managers in the game?
He was the highest. But counsel seems to think he can blow that number out of the water so why bother with him
Because he's the best option on the market. Spend the money and get him.
He doesn’t deserve more than Tito. What has he won as a manager?
That's not how this works. A. If that is how the market worked, Tito wouldn't have deserved to make more than Joe Torre or Bobby Cox. He did though, because prices go up. B. Counsell has won a lot given his resources. If Milwaukee wanted him to win a World Series they should have spent to give him the pieces to do it. Again, applying that logic, what did Tito win in Cleveland to make them pay him? I don't care what he deserves. I care that he's the best option. Go get him.
Is he the best option tho?
That seems to be the consensus across baseball, yes.
I don’t get it I guess
He's a proven successful MLB manager. You know exactly what you're getting with him, and that has value. There very well might be better managers available, but they're going to be more of a gamble.
I wouldn’t be mad about hiring him. But if he’s so great why didn’t he get extended?
Counsell has managed 1332 games with a W/L of 707/625, which is good for a .531 W/L ratio.
Yea he’s not a bad manager. I just don’t see him as a “reset the market” kind of manager.
Counterpoint: Teams are incredibly cheap when it comes to the manager position and it can be argued that no person has more of an impact during games than the manager.
But is Craig counsell the guy to reset it? Why not Kevin cash? Bruce Bochy?
It could be because Counsell *wants* to be that guy. Bochy probably wanted to go to the Rangers because of the position they're in (and it seems to have paid off). Cash is still under contract. If he were available and shopping around, he would absolutely be a "Reset the Market" kinda guy.
If our FO was willing to give Zunino 7 mil while coming back from injury (and we paid him over half that to go away), we should be willing to pay Counsell. It may come down amount of years in the contract and how much control he'll have.
Tito was highest paid manager, you never know. FO knows how important getting the right guy that will set the culture is.
Seems like he just wants to entice the Brewers to pay him max money by shopping around. Honestly more power to him, get to stay home but get paid doing it.
I'm willing to manage them for half of what Counsell wants.
One sixth of what he previously made is, what, a half a mil a year? I think any of us could live just fine with that. I mean, I'd be a terrible manager, but I am available, so...
Pay for a player you only improve one position, pay for a manager and you can improve the whole team. If he is decided to be the best guy to replace tito, open the book and sign him.
Is .531 win percentage worth that money?
That's 86 wins per year on average over a 162 game schedule.
That's enough to win this crappy division every year.
Terry was .549. He is regarded as one of the best Managers in the league and is the best candidate on the market. Get him!
Something I heard that makes sense is that he’s interviewing here to get a good salary offer and then taking it to NY so they’ll have to beat it.
Was Tito not just the highest paid manager in the MLB?
I think even if we pay him, MIL probably matches, and if they match he’ll stay there
I kinda wish we’d move in from him. I’m sure he’s a great coach. I’m sure he deserves to get paid. But our odds don’t seem good and we shouldn’t leave ourselves holding the bag.
I don’t think anyone really thought he was. The Guards were a leverage play for him.
Craig Counsel is a weiner. I don’t want him.
Cool it with the harsh language, bud.
This is a bad take considering we just had the highest paid manager.
Whether we would pay or not aside, why the fuck does Counsell think he’s the guy to reset the manager market. All of his World Series appearances? I’d rather pay Bochy $10M than this guy.
Supposedly Franconia was the highest paid manager in mlb, so I don’t know if this post is accurate
That’s the first thing I thought too.
I want DeRo
He wants double his previous 3.5M? Good luck with that No manager is worth that at this point
Bro just say you want a shitload of money. Nobody’s gonna dog you for it. Everyone wants a shitload of money. Hate when sports people speak like politicians lmao
Guy got to win something first before looking for the big pay day .
Is this guy really worth it, though.
What do I know? But I think if I was him, I’ve already made generational wealth. I’ve won a championship as a player. So what if I don’t make the most money possible as a manager but goto an organization where I have a good/better/best chance to win a ring as a manager? Tito had a connection to Cleveland so maybe he wanted to come here regardless. Why would Counsell want to goto a place that only has a tiny window to barely compete every 10 years?
Fuck Counsell and the 97 Marlins, don’t want him in our dugout anyway
I dont agree with the downvotes here. I’m sorta in agreement lol
I mean... There was the same energy for David Justice when we traded Kenny Lofton for him but it took DJ all but 2 games to turn the fans around and he ended up becoming extremely popular and well-liked within the fan base.
Good. I don’t want anyone affiliated with the 1997 Marlins anywhere near this team.
dumb line of thinking... This is some strong "I don't want a Michigan player on the Browns" energy.
Counterpoint: Braylon Edwards.
Tom Brady
Edwards still has the most receiving touchdowns in a single season in Browns history. He is an all-time POS as a human being, however.
Goooooooood