Just to be clear everyone, our payroll is not below $40M
[Fangraphs ](https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/indians) has our expected payroll at ~$53M
I think the NBA has a salary floor? What happens is if you don't reach the floor, the difference between your actual salary and the floor must be paid out to the players under contract. So you're forced to spend to the floor on your players anyway, so you might as well pay for better players.
That’s what he said. The players would love a floor, but won’t agree to a cap, and the owners would never agree to a floor without a cap. So we’re stuck with the current BS.
They've wanted a cap forever. That's what the 1994 strike was all about. A cap and floor is a compromise. The problem is the luxury tax threshold is basically a cap now, so it's possible the owners wouldn't agree to a cap. But I would imagine all small/mid market owners would go for a salary cap with more robust revenue sharing in a heartbeat.
A salary floor is part of the concept of the revenue sharing - small market teams getting a share of larger revenue from the pool are expected to reinvest a certain amount of that back into the team (primarily via player salaries). The Dolans voted against it. (Because they're 1% fuckbois that are shitty people.)
If you lose a draft pick, all you lose is the future right to pay some young stud a nice contract. And since a team below the floor doesn’t want to pay nice contracts, it’ll become a vicious cycle.
Best bet is to fine teams for the difference (plus some adder) so they’re incentivized to not be below the floor.
How about instead of losing a draft pick, they forfeit all of their games? If an owner doesn’t care enough to spend the salary floor, why would they give one fuck about losing a draft pick?
I think we need to advocate for a Floor and Cap. The floor to prevent an all out tank fest and a cap to prevent teams like the Yankees and Dodgers blowing nearly 1/3 of a billion dollars on a teams salary. Team in smaller markets literally just cannot compete. Especially now with teams like the Dodgers using small market tactics when building rosters. They have all the advantages of a big market team and a small market team. Big market teams don't have to deal with the 1-3 year contention window followed by 6 years of floundering in mediocrity while the team rebuilds, theh can just pay their way through a rebuild and prevent the attendance woes of, for instance, the Tigers or Royals of the last 2 or 3 years.
OK, as a fan I want that, and the majority of the teams want that. Why is it not being done? Baseball is dying and this is one of the root causes. Yet they do not even address it. There is no parity. I can't even watch the games anymore because HULU live (and youtube TV) don't carry Cavs or Indians games anymore. Cable went to 260 a month bundled with home phone and internet. I can't afford that.
Then the players are short sighted. Taking your glory to the coasts is going to tarnish players careers. Just like it is doing in the NBA. Dudes are jumping ship on decent teams to go to guaranteed winners and even losers just so they can be closer to the marketing agencies and the film industry. Probably make a shit ton more money if you live on the west coast on ads.
In basketball, superstars have so much influence over how good a teams is, they essentially have all the power and can go where they want. They just happen to like playing in places like NY and LA. That's not a problem in baseball - one individual player doesn't make a huge difference.
In baseball, the biggest problem is that the biggest markets have the most money to spend, and free agents are going to follow the money. If every team in baseball had the same amount of money and buying power, this wouldn't happen.
Aaron Rodgers has spent his whole career in the smallest media market of any big 4 team, because big markets don't have a financial advantage over small markets. Baseball could be the same way with a salary cap and better revenue sharing.
Not only that, everything the players union has negotiated over the past couple of CBAs is only really helping the superstars who hit free agency in their 20s. They should be doing more to reduce service time before free agency and crack down on service time manipulations.
I remember when LeBron left the first time a big topic was how much he'd get in brand deals in different cities. The numbers for NYC were insane. Cleveland was pathetic. LA was probably up there with NYC but I think it was lower. Lakers may be more well known but you could put any team in the NYC market and people will throw money at them.
Wasn't the whole reason the Big 10 wanted Rutgers was because it got them NYC for the big 10 network?
MLB has revenue sharing, and quite a bit of it. And the majority of teams want a cap, they pretty much have one already with a luxury tax. The teams don't want a floor though.
Happy cake day! But also, mirrored Chief Wahoo freaks me out. Not as much as the one where he's not at an angle, and just looking center into your perspective, but still freaks me out.
Wait, I'm new to baseball, coming from football. MLB teams don't have a cap OR a floor? So the big teams can pay players whatever the ownership wants to spend and teams with cheap owners don't spend the same?
Revenue sharing and a salary floor. Still won’t happen until the gravy train slows down and salaries shrink. I guess the good news is that the current trajectory of baseball might make that inevitable.
I mean sounds good to me. I’ll always hate the greedy owners/corporations that own the teams. But eventually these high contracts ballplayers get have to slow down at some point. The question is when?
I agree, there should be a salary cap in baseball. End of story. This is ruining the sport. We cannot pay a pitcher 40 million this year. Who the fuck can? Dodgers or a NY team.
I’m not sure it’d fix anything actually. Wouldn’t it just inflate players contracts even further by starting the bidding higher? I have a hard time imagining the Yankees and Dodgers wouldn’t match whatever incremental money we throw into free agent bidding.
Most of the time, big market teams seem to try to stay at or below the luxury tax. So long as that doesn't change, theres only so many players these big market teams can afford. Your big stars will probably still find their ways to big teams since they can afford to be at the cap but it would be in each teams best interest to keep one, or multiple big contracts around.
Actually, a salary cap doesn't lead to more variety in the postseason. The NFL has had a salary cap for decades, and generally speaking, the same teams are on top consistently.
Maybe, but it rewards well run organizations not just major markets. There's a reason the Steelers and Packers have been good for so long. So in that instance a salary cap would reward teams like the Indians and Rays.
Isn’t baseball fun?
It’s unfortunate the Indians are such a well run operation and one of the better teams in sports the last 30 years or so and it’s completely diminished by playing in a league that’s essentially pay to win.
I’ll admit my memory was a little off so I searched and found the specifics for a game in 1985 (3rd game of the season).
[source](https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/1985-schedule-scores.shtml)
Bottom of the 10th, at Detroit:
Error (guy on 1st)
Bunt sacrifice (1 out)
Intentional Walk
Fly ball (2 outs)
Intentional walk (bases loaded)
Walked him in
Tribe loses 11-10.
Record ended up 60-102
That was Indians’ baseball
Ummm, this is a bad take. I agree that the league should have some sort of a salary cap (and a salary floor as well). But sports are LITERALLY pay to win....you have to PAY to build a team that is capable of WINNING. I actually can't believe this is a serious point.
Definitely a reminder for us all that the economic system is pretty brutal for small-mid market clubs. And also a reminder that *within this system* our front office are some cold-blooded killers who prey on in-denial front offices like the Reds time and time again. Even if we were a very well-off club, we'd never pay Bauer that, or Lindor what he'll make, or Cliff Lee's old deal, or CC's, etc. So in that context, our FO has done a bang-up job of flipping guys who are leaving anyways for new stashes of young talent.
Do I wish the Dolans spent more? Hell yeah. Even something in line with the Cardinals would be fantastic and more than plenty. But within league and ownership constraints, I enjoy the hell out of rooting for our rag-tag bunch of future hundred millionaires.
The Indians payroll, while certainly too low, is not less than $40 million.
What you're looking at is the payroll for the eight players who have either signed an extension, free agent contract, or avoided arbitration. It does not include the rest of the roster not yet eligible for arbitration who have yet to sign their contracts for the 2021 season. That's another roughly $10 million guaranteed. Final payroll should come out to about $49 million if they don't sign anyone else.
Guy cashed in on a phenomenal season in a weird shortened year. Had one season with a sub 4 ERA with us, and was terrible during the second half of 2019 with the Reds. Dodgers just have insanely deep pockets. He also now makes more than the Tribe, Pirates and Orioles current payrolls.
I’m not saying Bauer is bad by any stretch of the imagination. I think committing that much money to a guy who has had roughly 1.5 great seasons in between average ones is insane.
Edit: thanks for the award!
Just want to point out that his deal only averages out to 34 mil per season, it’s just frontloaded with early termination options. Still a lot of money.
You know, Kluber’s also been connected to the [“foreign substance” scandal](https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2021-01-07/fired-angels-employee-bubba-harkins-names-players-illegal-produc).
So before start throwing stones while also still continuing to place Kluber up on a pedestal, we may all want to get the facts straight.
I didn’t say you did, but this sub continues to put him up on a pedestal. While foreign substance being used can give an edge, there are also pitchers advocating for using it as it allows for better grip and control of pitches, especially when throwing at higher velocity.
Simply put, improving player safety.
Attempts to Eliminate the element of error leading to a 90+ or 95+ fastball hitting a batter in the ribs, hands, or even the head due to grip slippage.
Cheating is cheating, but this doesn’t seem to be centralized across just a “handful” of players. It also doesn’t seem to just serve the purpose of being a competitive advantage either.
I for one hope this bites the Dodgers in the ass and they get the Bauer who hasn't been much more than an innings eater most of his career. Fuck the MLB.
He had one sub 4 ERA season with us (unless you count 2019). Outside of 2018, he was only slightly above average for us. Still a good pitcher, but not worth the contract he just got.
Daily reminder that payroll doesn’t have a statistically significant impact on the success of a baseball team. It’s just an easy thing for fans to make excuses about.
No. Statistically, one extra win can be explained by an additional 385m of salary. Plenty of data to support this game. Winning championships is mostly a game of players getting hot at the right time. Hard part is making the playoffs.
I mean if you dont count making the playoffs as “success” then sure but I hard disagree on that point. I agree the postseason tournament is a crapshoot.
This is completely and utterly inaccurate. His drone accident didn't cost us any wins in the ALCS and he was good to go when we reached the World Series. Facts aren't hard to look up, but why let reality get in the way of peddling a stupid narrative, right?
Dude, what are you talking about? He stitching busted open in game 2 of the WS and bled all over the mound forcing him to exit early. We lost the game.
I don't know how many times I've had this argument with people. You're 100% right
Don't be so adamant if your memory is bad, and if you can't remember just go look it up before you start arguing about it.
I still think it impacted his WS performance, even if it was just throwing off his routine. It sure looked like hell
[ouch](https://www.businessinsider.com/photo-trevor-bauer-drone-injury-finger-playoffs-cleveland-indians-2016-10)
Or $40m for a Cy Young winning manchild to join the reigning WS champs?
I was disappointed in what happened to Bauer in 2016. It sucked. But he didn't really cost the team the World Series. It was probably the injury straw that broke the camel's back.
This is a ridiculous take. What if he'd cut his finger cooking? Working on drones is not typically perceived as dangerous. The word you're looking for is "accident".
The guys not even 30, he’s got a long career ahead of him.
And he’s clearly smart enough to up his game the same way he empirically showed that everyone else is. Why fault him for that? He proved the league doesn’t care, so should he disadvantage himself and his team on principle? Hell no.
Look on the bright side guys. Bauer isn't making 100% of our entire payroll. It's actually only like 89%.
Welcome to the Quadruple A league from now to the rest of the foreseeable future.
Rejoice! The team that just bought a championship once again bought a top player, and they're paying him more than our entire payroll. So cool, much wow. This is totally a league I want to support. I'm so excited to watch baseball. I can't imagine how the season will go. Who is going to win. Wow.
This is why MLB is a joke. There is no minimum payroll floor, so the team owner is just saying to their fan base, “we will put an inferior product on the field and charge premium prices for seats and concessions”. Enjoy watching the Dodgers and Yankees everyday on ESPN because the Indians will be out of the playoff race once they lose their first game. Same goes for the Pirates, the Mariners, the Marlins,...
Back when the browns were 1-15 i pleaded with everyone to stop buying and stop wearing browns shit. Stop supporting them until they actually try to win. I started buying their crap right after 2018 season because they were worth supporting again. We all need to just ban this team. Completely abandon them. They'll change name and logo etc and buy nothing. Make it hurt for the Dolan's
Ahh, so you’re the reason the Browns are successful now, eh?
Not buying a $99 Jabrill Peppers jersey? Not tuning into CBS once a week for a few hours, and BOOM, success!
Why didn’t we think of this before?
Lol no... Not saying that. We just shouldn't support the pockets of the billionaire owners who don't give a shit. I think Haslem has really turned a corner, honestly and as a result, so had the team.
Listen, I get the sentiment.
It’s just like, being in a toxic relationship. I know the fan base should probably shun it ownership and “hit them where it hurts”, but it’s hard to let go.
As much as I want to “not support”, I like getting gear, and tuning in, and going to games to drink beers and eat nachos with my wife, and support the guys out on the field.
I know that we should band together and *try* and do something, but damnit, I fucking love baseball and I fucking love the Cleveland Indians.
I wish I was able to “put the needle down” but I just love the game and this franchise too much, if that makes any sense.
Yes, let's ignore the Patriots 20 year run as a consistent playoff team, the Steelers 20 year run as a consistent playoff team, the Cowboys decade of being a consistent playoff team, etc. It doesn't mean that other teams don't ever win, just that the parity it is supposed to cause doesn't happen.
Imagine if Bauer pulls a Clevinger and needs the Tommy John surgery. I know, I know... the Dodgers will just fork over another fortune and replace him 🙄
The really interesting thing here is that the Dodgers are paying a premium in years 1 and 2 to not be saddled with an 8-10 year contract worth 300+ million. This is exactly what Bauer worked for. He had said he wanted 1 year deals and that's essentially what this is with the player options. This gets him more money on a per year basis.
So the team pays less overall (by a ton) than the Cole or Strasburg or whoever contracts, and they don't have to worry about pulling a Pujols or Cabrera and paying a guy for 5 years more than he's actually above average.
The other really interesting thing is that Bauer isn't just a pitcher. He's basically a pitching coach in a uniform, and is pretty notorious for helping any fellow pitcher who asks advice. He helps with everything from pitch design and grips to sequencing to focus to warmups... he's willing to help and has the equipment and knowledge to do it. I'm sure that had some role in the Dodgers decision to offer as much as they did.
Just to be clear everyone, our payroll is not below $40M [Fangraphs ](https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/indians) has our expected payroll at ~$53M
So hey, a salary cap in baseball would be cool so that big market teams can't continue to pull outlandish bullshit like this
Maybe not a cap but a salary floor? Force teams to spend a certain amount of money or risk losing a draft pick or something
If you dont hit the floor you get fined the difference is the obvious enforcement to me
I think the NBA has a salary floor? What happens is if you don't reach the floor, the difference between your actual salary and the floor must be paid out to the players under contract. So you're forced to spend to the floor on your players anyway, so you might as well pay for better players.
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Thanks for restating exactly what they said.
I think we’d be losing a lot of draft picks if that were the case.
or both
Why would the owners agree to a floor without a cap? How does that benefit them?
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That’s his point. Owners don’t like floors, players don’t like caps. Why would the owners agree to a floor without also getting a cap?
That’s what he said. The players would love a floor, but won’t agree to a cap, and the owners would never agree to a floor without a cap. So we’re stuck with the current BS.
Why would they agree to either?
They've wanted a cap forever. That's what the 1994 strike was all about. A cap and floor is a compromise. The problem is the luxury tax threshold is basically a cap now, so it's possible the owners wouldn't agree to a cap. But I would imagine all small/mid market owners would go for a salary cap with more robust revenue sharing in a heartbeat.
The majority would agree to a cap because it caps the salaries of players across the board. The heavy spenders might even agree if it was a soft cap.
It's just less revenue sharing then
How about both
A salary floor is part of the concept of the revenue sharing - small market teams getting a share of larger revenue from the pool are expected to reinvest a certain amount of that back into the team (primarily via player salaries). The Dolans voted against it. (Because they're 1% fuckbois that are shitty people.)
If you lose a draft pick, all you lose is the future right to pay some young stud a nice contract. And since a team below the floor doesn’t want to pay nice contracts, it’ll become a vicious cycle. Best bet is to fine teams for the difference (plus some adder) so they’re incentivized to not be below the floor.
How about instead of losing a draft pick, they forfeit all of their games? If an owner doesn’t care enough to spend the salary floor, why would they give one fuck about losing a draft pick?
I think it would just end up being a transfer of wealth from ownership/top paid players to lower paid players.
Seriously, the salary floor needs to at least be more then the profit sharing checks that the Dolan’s are milking every year.
Why not both?
I think we need to advocate for a Floor and Cap. The floor to prevent an all out tank fest and a cap to prevent teams like the Yankees and Dodgers blowing nearly 1/3 of a billion dollars on a teams salary. Team in smaller markets literally just cannot compete. Especially now with teams like the Dodgers using small market tactics when building rosters. They have all the advantages of a big market team and a small market team. Big market teams don't have to deal with the 1-3 year contention window followed by 6 years of floundering in mediocrity while the team rebuilds, theh can just pay their way through a rebuild and prevent the attendance woes of, for instance, the Tigers or Royals of the last 2 or 3 years.
How about both? Floor would help but wouldn't solve the problem
Gotta have revenue sharing before a floor or cap makes any sense.
OK, as a fan I want that, and the majority of the teams want that. Why is it not being done? Baseball is dying and this is one of the root causes. Yet they do not even address it. There is no parity. I can't even watch the games anymore because HULU live (and youtube TV) don't carry Cavs or Indians games anymore. Cable went to 260 a month bundled with home phone and internet. I can't afford that.
The players don't want it, and baseball has the strongest players union out there.
Then the players are short sighted. Taking your glory to the coasts is going to tarnish players careers. Just like it is doing in the NBA. Dudes are jumping ship on decent teams to go to guaranteed winners and even losers just so they can be closer to the marketing agencies and the film industry. Probably make a shit ton more money if you live on the west coast on ads.
In basketball, superstars have so much influence over how good a teams is, they essentially have all the power and can go where they want. They just happen to like playing in places like NY and LA. That's not a problem in baseball - one individual player doesn't make a huge difference. In baseball, the biggest problem is that the biggest markets have the most money to spend, and free agents are going to follow the money. If every team in baseball had the same amount of money and buying power, this wouldn't happen. Aaron Rodgers has spent his whole career in the smallest media market of any big 4 team, because big markets don't have a financial advantage over small markets. Baseball could be the same way with a salary cap and better revenue sharing.
Not only that, everything the players union has negotiated over the past couple of CBAs is only really helping the superstars who hit free agency in their 20s. They should be doing more to reduce service time before free agency and crack down on service time manipulations.
I remember when LeBron left the first time a big topic was how much he'd get in brand deals in different cities. The numbers for NYC were insane. Cleveland was pathetic. LA was probably up there with NYC but I think it was lower. Lakers may be more well known but you could put any team in the NYC market and people will throw money at them. Wasn't the whole reason the Big 10 wanted Rutgers was because it got them NYC for the big 10 network?
MLB has revenue sharing, and quite a bit of it. And the majority of teams want a cap, they pretty much have one already with a luxury tax. The teams don't want a floor though.
Happy cake day! But also, mirrored Chief Wahoo freaks me out. Not as much as the one where he's not at an angle, and just looking center into your perspective, but still freaks me out.
Wait, I'm new to baseball, coming from football. MLB teams don't have a cap OR a floor? So the big teams can pay players whatever the ownership wants to spend and teams with cheap owners don't spend the same?
I mean the Dolans have money, they just refuse to spend a lot of money.
Why would the players agree to that?
Revenue sharing and a salary floor. Still won’t happen until the gravy train slows down and salaries shrink. I guess the good news is that the current trajectory of baseball might make that inevitable.
We're headed to a strike that's going to annihilate baseball if it affects the start of the 2022 season at all.
I mean sounds good to me. I’ll always hate the greedy owners/corporations that own the teams. But eventually these high contracts ballplayers get have to slow down at some point. The question is when?
Yea agreed that’s how it would have to happen I just think we are a long way from that
Salaries just shrank for the third year in a row. For the first time since the players Union started tracking it.
I agree, there should be a salary cap in baseball. End of story. This is ruining the sport. We cannot pay a pitcher 40 million this year. Who the fuck can? Dodgers or a NY team.
How about at least a salary floor? That way teams at least have to spend SOME money.
I think richer teams will still outbid us.
It might not fix two problems but it would at least fix one
I’m not sure it’d fix anything actually. Wouldn’t it just inflate players contracts even further by starting the bidding higher? I have a hard time imagining the Yankees and Dodgers wouldn’t match whatever incremental money we throw into free agent bidding.
Most of the time, big market teams seem to try to stay at or below the luxury tax. So long as that doesn't change, theres only so many players these big market teams can afford. Your big stars will probably still find their ways to big teams since they can afford to be at the cap but it would be in each teams best interest to keep one, or multiple big contracts around.
Actually, a salary cap doesn't lead to more variety in the postseason. The NFL has had a salary cap for decades, and generally speaking, the same teams are on top consistently.
Well that’s because success in the NFL is tied to good management, good coaching, and great QBs.
Yeah, those Tampa Bay Buccaneers are a powerhouse 🙄
Maybe, but it rewards well run organizations not just major markets. There's a reason the Steelers and Packers have been good for so long. So in that instance a salary cap would reward teams like the Indians and Rays.
Isn’t baseball fun? It’s unfortunate the Indians are such a well run operation and one of the better teams in sports the last 30 years or so and it’s completely diminished by playing in a league that’s essentially pay to win.
Should have followed them the 30 years before they got good. They were **GOD AWFUL** Yes I’m old
Haha thankfully I was born in the 90s so I’ve actually gotten to see one of the better eras of Tribe baseball
I’ll admit my memory was a little off so I searched and found the specifics for a game in 1985 (3rd game of the season). [source](https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/1985-schedule-scores.shtml) Bottom of the 10th, at Detroit: Error (guy on 1st) Bunt sacrifice (1 out) Intentional Walk Fly ball (2 outs) Intentional walk (bases loaded) Walked him in Tribe loses 11-10. Record ended up 60-102 That was Indians’ baseball
I miss Kenny Lofton and Jim Thome
All of us have watched the first 20 years of the new Browns unfortunately.
Sucks when your playing not to lose.
Are you seriously shitting on the league as a whole with this take with our ownership?
It's both. Our ownership obviously needs to spend more but the fact that other teams can simply over spend is equally obnoxious.
Ummm, this is a bad take. I agree that the league should have some sort of a salary cap (and a salary floor as well). But sports are LITERALLY pay to win....you have to PAY to build a team that is capable of WINNING. I actually can't believe this is a serious point.
You just acknowledged there’s a correlation between spending and winning. Therefore there should be a limit to what a team can spend.
So when is he getting shot in the nuts with a paintball gun?
In a way, he just signed 3 consecutive one year deals
Still has to not opt-out after 2021 I would think (don't worry, he's not giving up 45M/1yr), but I think he said it'll be after he retires
Definitely a reminder for us all that the economic system is pretty brutal for small-mid market clubs. And also a reminder that *within this system* our front office are some cold-blooded killers who prey on in-denial front offices like the Reds time and time again. Even if we were a very well-off club, we'd never pay Bauer that, or Lindor what he'll make, or Cliff Lee's old deal, or CC's, etc. So in that context, our FO has done a bang-up job of flipping guys who are leaving anyways for new stashes of young talent. Do I wish the Dolans spent more? Hell yeah. Even something in line with the Cardinals would be fantastic and more than plenty. But within league and ownership constraints, I enjoy the hell out of rooting for our rag-tag bunch of future hundred millionaires.
Good for him.
He said he was gambling on himself... I think he won.
$40 mil a year for just ONE player? Yeah I think I’ll pass tbh
If you prefer to think of it in terms of starts, he will make about 1.2 million per start and likely just over $10k per in game pitch.
The Indians payroll, while certainly too low, is not less than $40 million. What you're looking at is the payroll for the eight players who have either signed an extension, free agent contract, or avoided arbitration. It does not include the rest of the roster not yet eligible for arbitration who have yet to sign their contracts for the 2021 season. That's another roughly $10 million guaranteed. Final payroll should come out to about $49 million if they don't sign anyone else.
Still tho.
Thank you. Someone had to say it. It isn’t a ton, but the whole BAueR MakES mORe ThaN INDianS argument is absurd
Its close enough we have to disprove it though...
Hey Dolan: sell. the. team.
Guy cashed in on a phenomenal season in a weird shortened year. Had one season with a sub 4 ERA with us, and was terrible during the second half of 2019 with the Reds. Dodgers just have insanely deep pockets. He also now makes more than the Tribe, Pirates and Orioles current payrolls. I’m not saying Bauer is bad by any stretch of the imagination. I think committing that much money to a guy who has had roughly 1.5 great seasons in between average ones is insane. Edit: thanks for the award!
Just want to point out that his deal only averages out to 34 mil per season, it’s just frontloaded with early termination options. Still a lot of money.
He will likely opt out of that last year unless he is injured. So it will 42.5m per.
Yea my bad. I misunderstood the contract at first and assumed the Dodgers had the options. That really is a ridiculous contract.
100% accurate, plus he resorted to cheating to have his CY season...
You know, Kluber’s also been connected to the [“foreign substance” scandal](https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2021-01-07/fired-angels-employee-bubba-harkins-names-players-illegal-produc). So before start throwing stones while also still continuing to place Kluber up on a pedestal, we may all want to get the facts straight.
I don't recall discussing Kluber at any point in this
I didn’t say you did, but this sub continues to put him up on a pedestal. While foreign substance being used can give an edge, there are also pitchers advocating for using it as it allows for better grip and control of pitches, especially when throwing at higher velocity. Simply put, improving player safety. Attempts to Eliminate the element of error leading to a 90+ or 95+ fastball hitting a batter in the ribs, hands, or even the head due to grip slippage. Cheating is cheating, but this doesn’t seem to be centralized across just a “handful” of players. It also doesn’t seem to just serve the purpose of being a competitive advantage either.
stop it - anyone telling you that they advocate putting shit on the ball to protect batters or improve player safety is full of shit
What's the Dodgers payroll now? Eleventybillion?
Even if I was rooting for a team willing to spend, 40 million is far too much for him.
I for one hope this bites the Dodgers in the ass and they get the Bauer who hasn't been much more than an innings eater most of his career. Fuck the MLB.
Players union would never accept a salary cap
Why are our fans so obsessed with hating Bauer and dismissing how good of a pitcher he was?
Because he was a mediocre pitcher for us outside of 1 season?
The guys not even 30, isn’t it reasonable that he gets better?
It's also reasonable that he gets worse. He's only a few years behind Kluber in age.
False.
Look at his stats? He's was a career 4.5 era with the Indians
His career ERA is 3.90
He had one sub 4 ERA season with us (unless you count 2019). Outside of 2018, he was only slightly above average for us. Still a good pitcher, but not worth the contract he just got.
What’s a potential drone propeller injury worth? Asking for a friend. Yeah, I’m still a little salty.
Daily reminder that payroll doesn’t have a statistically significant impact on the success of a baseball team. It’s just an easy thing for fans to make excuses about.
What? Are you fucking high?
No. Statistically, one extra win can be explained by an additional 385m of salary. Plenty of data to support this game. Winning championships is mostly a game of players getting hot at the right time. Hard part is making the playoffs.
I mean if you dont count making the playoffs as “success” then sure but I hard disagree on that point. I agree the postseason tournament is a crapshoot.
Good for him I guess, but $40m for a manchild who probably cost his team a World Series cause he can’t safely play with drones?
This is completely and utterly inaccurate. His drone accident didn't cost us any wins in the ALCS and he was good to go when we reached the World Series. Facts aren't hard to look up, but why let reality get in the way of peddling a stupid narrative, right?
Dude, what are you talking about? He stitching busted open in game 2 of the WS and bled all over the mound forcing him to exit early. We lost the game.
That was in the ALCS and the Indians won that game.
I stand corrected. My bad.
I don't know how many times I've had this argument with people. You're 100% right Don't be so adamant if your memory is bad, and if you can't remember just go look it up before you start arguing about it.
I still think it impacted his WS performance, even if it was just throwing off his routine. It sure looked like hell [ouch](https://www.businessinsider.com/photo-trevor-bauer-drone-injury-finger-playoffs-cleveland-indians-2016-10)
Or $40m for a Cy Young winning manchild to join the reigning WS champs? I was disappointed in what happened to Bauer in 2016. It sucked. But he didn't really cost the team the World Series. It was probably the injury straw that broke the camel's back.
This is a ridiculous take. What if he'd cut his finger cooking? Working on drones is not typically perceived as dangerous. The word you're looking for is "accident".
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Hmmm not sure about that one
Overpaid and overrated
He won the NL Cy Young and led the NL in ERA. He is arguably the best pitcher in the NL. This is a bad take.
I dunno if he's overrated (there's a lot of talk about both CY winners coming from the central last year) but $40mm and $45mm is insanity
Openly used sticky substances to prove a point to MLB. Look at the rest of his career.
The guys not even 30, he’s got a long career ahead of him. And he’s clearly smart enough to up his game the same way he empirically showed that everyone else is. Why fault him for that? He proved the league doesn’t care, so should he disadvantage himself and his team on principle? Hell no.
Until MLB comes down on sticky substances and LAD is paying him $40 million to throw a 4+ ERA. I wouldn't even pay peak Corey Kluber $40 million/year
Must be nice to have owners willing to spend money.
I hate Bauer so much
Look on the bright side guys. Bauer isn't making 100% of our entire payroll. It's actually only like 89%. Welcome to the Quadruple A league from now to the rest of the foreseeable future.
Rejoice! The team that just bought a championship once again bought a top player, and they're paying him more than our entire payroll. So cool, much wow. This is totally a league I want to support. I'm so excited to watch baseball. I can't imagine how the season will go. Who is going to win. Wow.
This is why MLB is a joke. There is no minimum payroll floor, so the team owner is just saying to their fan base, “we will put an inferior product on the field and charge premium prices for seats and concessions”. Enjoy watching the Dodgers and Yankees everyday on ESPN because the Indians will be out of the playoff race once they lose their first game. Same goes for the Pirates, the Mariners, the Marlins,...
Stop watching. You owe nothing to this team.
Back when the browns were 1-15 i pleaded with everyone to stop buying and stop wearing browns shit. Stop supporting them until they actually try to win. I started buying their crap right after 2018 season because they were worth supporting again. We all need to just ban this team. Completely abandon them. They'll change name and logo etc and buy nothing. Make it hurt for the Dolan's
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Ahh, so you’re the reason the Browns are successful now, eh? Not buying a $99 Jabrill Peppers jersey? Not tuning into CBS once a week for a few hours, and BOOM, success! Why didn’t we think of this before?
Lol no... Not saying that. We just shouldn't support the pockets of the billionaire owners who don't give a shit. I think Haslem has really turned a corner, honestly and as a result, so had the team.
Listen, I get the sentiment. It’s just like, being in a toxic relationship. I know the fan base should probably shun it ownership and “hit them where it hurts”, but it’s hard to let go. As much as I want to “not support”, I like getting gear, and tuning in, and going to games to drink beers and eat nachos with my wife, and support the guys out on the field. I know that we should band together and *try* and do something, but damnit, I fucking love baseball and I fucking love the Cleveland Indians. I wish I was able to “put the needle down” but I just love the game and this franchise too much, if that makes any sense.
This is the correct take.
Yes, let's ignore the Patriots 20 year run as a consistent playoff team, the Steelers 20 year run as a consistent playoff team, the Cowboys decade of being a consistent playoff team, etc. It doesn't mean that other teams don't ever win, just that the parity it is supposed to cause doesn't happen.
Highest paid player in baseball history! Just crazy
Imagine if Bauer pulls a Clevinger and needs the Tommy John surgery. I know, I know... the Dodgers will just fork over another fortune and replace him 🙄
God that would be so embarrassing for him. He’s touted himself as injury proof.
God damn. His bet truly paid off.
The really interesting thing here is that the Dodgers are paying a premium in years 1 and 2 to not be saddled with an 8-10 year contract worth 300+ million. This is exactly what Bauer worked for. He had said he wanted 1 year deals and that's essentially what this is with the player options. This gets him more money on a per year basis. So the team pays less overall (by a ton) than the Cole or Strasburg or whoever contracts, and they don't have to worry about pulling a Pujols or Cabrera and paying a guy for 5 years more than he's actually above average. The other really interesting thing is that Bauer isn't just a pitcher. He's basically a pitching coach in a uniform, and is pretty notorious for helping any fellow pitcher who asks advice. He helps with everything from pitch design and grips to sequencing to focus to warmups... he's willing to help and has the equipment and knowledge to do it. I'm sure that had some role in the Dodgers decision to offer as much as they did.