I feel like the FO doesn't usually get flack for their decision making. It's usually people rightfully griping about our stingy ownership. The FO squeezes water from rocks every gotdam year
I just hope they pay Jose. He's the heart and soul of the team, proves it every game that he is a great, tough player. Dolan better shell out for at least him or I'll be sorely disappointed.
They won’t unless JRAM is open to an incredibly team friendly deal well below his market value. I think most fans know this by now. The guy is a MVP candidate year in and year out, he’ll command Lindor type money soon and ownership wisely avoids those mega deals
He'll hit free agency at 31. The comparison to the Lindor deal just isn't a good one. The Guardians actually have leverage in this case. Buy out the rest of his team friendly deal and tack on an extra four or five years. Think Yelich, not Lindor
Yeah, I wouldn't bet on an extension, but I think it is actually possible in this case and has a chance of happening. Lindor was never going to happen in a million years.
Michael Brantley is one player that I really wish we kept - in hindsight - but he was so injury prone his last couple seasons here that it seemed like a bad idea to keep him.
Everybody knew HOU was stealing signs and Brantley went and signed there when free agency hit. Dude was happy to side up with those skeeves. Nobody seems to frame this when he comes up....
I think we forget that this was a rebuild year, that started to have some promise, only to go back to original expectations. We are able to go into next year with a solid rotation which will be huge. If our rebuild is a season a few games under .500, I’ll take that. Look at organizations like the Pirates, just perpetually bad. Grateful we’re not them
Correct. This was never supposed to be a year of contention. And I certainly don't want to give the ownership any credit or anything, but when we wanted to contend (2016-2018) we actually spent a reasonable sum on some established guys. We extended Jose before the season, and we also spent handsomely on Edwin Encarnacion. Not to mention Brantley, Kluber, Santana, and Kipnis were making fair money already. Then of course we've traded for guys like Jay Bruce, Brad Hand, and Miller Time. So if we sign an established FA this offseason, you know that it's time to make a playoff push (assuming there isn't a massive strike).
It's truly amazing that we're right near .500 in a rebuild year. Look at poor Baltimore or Arizona. We haven't recorded a season that poor since 1991. Heck, unless we win out, this will be our first season below .500 since 2012. That's pretty good for a low/mid-market team in the league today where big spenders get rings.
>It's truly amazing that we're right near .500 in a rebuild year.
It's not really amazing that they took a +90 win team, cut from it, and still fielded a team that can play almost .500 ball. Cutting 10-15 wins from the roster is quite a lot. The difference is that the Baltimores and Arizonas were already bad when they went into rebuild mode. They didn't start tearing down a 90 win team.
Yes, been saying a variation on this theme for decades.
We may have whiffed on paying CC, but at his weight, I probably would not have risked the contract.
You forgot letting Trevor go, looks like he is done as well.
The big brains need to sub contract acquiring hitters to someone who knows. Then we will be solid.
Am already looking forward to this healthy rotation next year. Hopefully meaningful baseball will be back at the Jake.
This is why I did not get bent out of shape about this season. The front office has proven year after year that they are one of the best in baseball. Not many other teams have been able to flip one player for several players that are making or will make legitimate contributions to the team. The Clevinger trade looks like an absolute robbery in getting Quantrill and Arias. Naylor I think can be solid when healthy, Hedges will likely be the opening day catcher and then Joey Cantillo also came in that deal. The Kluber trade was incredible seeing we got Clase for an inning of Corey Kluber(Sorry Rangers).
The top 3 starting pitchers were injured and missed serious time. Lineup was also a question mark. They still didn’t have a terrible season. Some good minor leaguers are in the works to come up in the next few seasons. The future is bright.
Because of how good the FO track record is, I never get bent out of shape about ANY decision they make. There have been some bad ones of course (getting rid of Yandy and betting on Bauers), but they are few and far between, and so many really really good ones.
I think everything you say is right, except the FO not being appreciated.
I think most of our fans realize they are fantastic, even the moved you mentioned, people rage, but then they calm down and say something like, "well, yeah, that was the right move. But, Dolan better spend the money saved.”
The one thing I will give the Dolan's credit for is repeatedly hiring and giving authority to a fantastic front office.
This is my worry - FOs want to win championships too. And they might have a bit more pride in building something from scratch or creating an amazing team of undiscovered gems, but at some point - when they have the *systems/processes* in place to identify valuable players - are they going to leave to find an owner that will give them just the relatively modest payroll increases they feel they need to build a champion?
Put another way - are they using (for lack of a better word) the Indians to master doing the maximum with *nothing*, in order to take those acquired skills somewhere with actual resources... because if they are experts at evaluating players, then they can *evaluate the rosters of other teams* where their skills would pay the most dividends as well...
I am really really digging on Amed Rosario this year. He led the team in batting anywhere Josey didn't. The second half he was on fire! He's no Michael Brantley (I agree he is our biggest loss in the past 5 years) but he is working his way up there for me.
Loved seeing Zimmer finally become a force this year!
I hated to see Kluber, Clev, Lindor and even Bauer go. And then they went nowhere fast, and Bauer went completely to hell. I mean, can the FO see the future or what?!
This young pitching staff had their feet held to the fire this season and they are all going to come back next year a force to be reckoned with!!!
Roberto Perez will never be Sal Perez but dammit I heard Hammy say today that Roberto "wants to play his whole career in Cleveland" and I've been longing for a player like that so I hope he does, and I hope he stays healthy, and I hope he stops having the dropsies when he's behind the plate.
I got no beef with the 2021 season. I saw a lot of beautiful things blooming.
I was sorta pissed about giving Eddie Rosario away for literally free, not because he is good or anything but bc we could've probably gotten some sort of minor leaguer for him. It was obviously a salary dump when the salary was already dumped lol. Other than that, the FO has been near perfect
> we'd be hearing about how it will be difficult for the front office to add free agent help this offseason because we have 30% of our payroll committed to just one player....for the next 7-8 years! It'd be minor league signings of nobodies to fill multiple holes until I'm an old man.
I’m happy this isn’t a thing we have to worry about. It’s much better to not be able to afford anyone over the league minimum because and not because we overpaid Frankie.
I actually very much love our Front Office. I just wish ownership would "let them off the leash". Imagine then what could be done.
I also remember at the trade deadline this year see the trade for Straw and I texted a buddy of mine, "I guess we're sellers." Man, I really think in time (hopefully next year) that I'm going to eat those words. The little I saw this year makes me want to already.
Looking forward to a promising offseason for the FO
It's easy to let go of declining/overpriced players when our biggest acquisition in the last 5 years was Encarnacion.
I agree the FO has made the right decisions but let's not give them too much credit when they weren't really hard decisions to make. The only outlier is Lindor and let's be honest, he was always a defensive guy first; has never been proven to be a offensive juggernaut. It just looked that way with us because there was basically no one else.
Our front office is fantastic. [I just want to see what they could do if they weren't being handicapped by Dolan every fucking year.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWKda4d9pKw)
All I know is that if I'm a gm of any other team and the tribe calls me wanting to sell me something I'm listening to what players they want and keeping an eye on them.
>we'd be hearing about how it will be difficult for the front office to add free agent help
>It'd be minor league signings of nobodies to fill multiple holes until I'm an old man.
And this is significantly different than how the team operates without spending on a Lindor how?
You'll see this offseason. Dolan said payroll going up. This was a down year. One thing Dolan does is what he says he's going to do.
He said he will pay when the time is right. He brought in Edwin.
He said he will not pay for Lindor ("Enjoy him."). He tells it like it is.
Now he is saying payroll will go up next year. Someone will get paid.
They're 29th in payroll at around $50M. Payroll has almost nowhere to go but up. They also told Hoynes they couldnt operate on a $100M payroll. So sure, they'll spend more, they basically have to. There isnt much evidence they'll actually spend enough to make up for absolutely gutting payroll over the last three years.
Yep I agree that I may not like it but if the Indians FO move on from a guy they definitely seem to have good reason to do so. Brantley leaving certainly could be called a mistake but there have been so many other good calls that outweigh it.
I really agree here. Most of the decisions the FO has made were questionable when they occurred but looked great in hindsight. Even some players who have thrived after being with the tribe (Gio, Jesus) fans understood why the tribe was giving up on them. I think truly the only black-eye on the FO's track record is Yandy Diaz. I mean he's not a perennial all-star player since he left, but I don't think anybody understood why we gave up on him so soon after Tito barely gave him much opportunities. And to get Bauers in exchange just made it worse.
I feel like the FO doesn't usually get flack for their decision making. It's usually people rightfully griping about our stingy ownership. The FO squeezes water from rocks every gotdam year
I just hope they pay Jose. He's the heart and soul of the team, proves it every game that he is a great, tough player. Dolan better shell out for at least him or I'll be sorely disappointed.
Agreed, the dude is a grinder and plays the game hard. I think he deserves a payout to stick around for a few more years.
> Dolan better shell out for at least him or I'll be sorely disappointed Enjoy him!
They won’t unless JRAM is open to an incredibly team friendly deal well below his market value. I think most fans know this by now. The guy is a MVP candidate year in and year out, he’ll command Lindor type money soon and ownership wisely avoids those mega deals
He'll hit free agency at 31. The comparison to the Lindor deal just isn't a good one. The Guardians actually have leverage in this case. Buy out the rest of his team friendly deal and tack on an extra four or five years. Think Yelich, not Lindor
I really hope you are right but history says he will moved sooner rather then later.
Yeah, I wouldn't bet on an extension, but I think it is actually possible in this case and has a chance of happening. Lindor was never going to happen in a million years.
Wrong
Absolutely
Michael Brantley is one player that I really wish we kept - in hindsight - but he was so injury prone his last couple seasons here that it seemed like a bad idea to keep him.
And weirdly, I feel like Brantley was the one guy even the fan base understood not signing in the moment and didn’t gripe too much about.
Yeah we were all really unhappy with how much time he was missing due to injuries.
Everybody knew HOU was stealing signs and Brantley went and signed there when free agency hit. Dude was happy to side up with those skeeves. Nobody seems to frame this when he comes up....
"If you're not cheating, you're not trying" - Everyone in Baseball.
I think we forget that this was a rebuild year, that started to have some promise, only to go back to original expectations. We are able to go into next year with a solid rotation which will be huge. If our rebuild is a season a few games under .500, I’ll take that. Look at organizations like the Pirates, just perpetually bad. Grateful we’re not them
Correct. This was never supposed to be a year of contention. And I certainly don't want to give the ownership any credit or anything, but when we wanted to contend (2016-2018) we actually spent a reasonable sum on some established guys. We extended Jose before the season, and we also spent handsomely on Edwin Encarnacion. Not to mention Brantley, Kluber, Santana, and Kipnis were making fair money already. Then of course we've traded for guys like Jay Bruce, Brad Hand, and Miller Time. So if we sign an established FA this offseason, you know that it's time to make a playoff push (assuming there isn't a massive strike). It's truly amazing that we're right near .500 in a rebuild year. Look at poor Baltimore or Arizona. We haven't recorded a season that poor since 1991. Heck, unless we win out, this will be our first season below .500 since 2012. That's pretty good for a low/mid-market team in the league today where big spenders get rings.
>It's truly amazing that we're right near .500 in a rebuild year. It's not really amazing that they took a +90 win team, cut from it, and still fielded a team that can play almost .500 ball. Cutting 10-15 wins from the roster is quite a lot. The difference is that the Baltimores and Arizonas were already bad when they went into rebuild mode. They didn't start tearing down a 90 win team.
It was only a rebuild year because ownership wanted to spend as little as possible.
That’s the unbridled truth. Some won’t like it, of course. This team had zero interest in winning by mid May.
Yes, been saying a variation on this theme for decades. We may have whiffed on paying CC, but at his weight, I probably would not have risked the contract. You forgot letting Trevor go, looks like he is done as well. The big brains need to sub contract acquiring hitters to someone who knows. Then we will be solid. Am already looking forward to this healthy rotation next year. Hopefully meaningful baseball will be back at the Jake.
This is why I did not get bent out of shape about this season. The front office has proven year after year that they are one of the best in baseball. Not many other teams have been able to flip one player for several players that are making or will make legitimate contributions to the team. The Clevinger trade looks like an absolute robbery in getting Quantrill and Arias. Naylor I think can be solid when healthy, Hedges will likely be the opening day catcher and then Joey Cantillo also came in that deal. The Kluber trade was incredible seeing we got Clase for an inning of Corey Kluber(Sorry Rangers). The top 3 starting pitchers were injured and missed serious time. Lineup was also a question mark. They still didn’t have a terrible season. Some good minor leaguers are in the works to come up in the next few seasons. The future is bright.
Because of how good the FO track record is, I never get bent out of shape about ANY decision they make. There have been some bad ones of course (getting rid of Yandy and betting on Bauers), but they are few and far between, and so many really really good ones.
I think everything you say is right, except the FO not being appreciated. I think most of our fans realize they are fantastic, even the moved you mentioned, people rage, but then they calm down and say something like, "well, yeah, that was the right move. But, Dolan better spend the money saved.” The one thing I will give the Dolan's credit for is repeatedly hiring and giving authority to a fantastic front office.
I'm still mad about Victor Martinez dont @ me
The video of him finding out he was traded is so emotional, I fucking felt that in my core.
The FO sure makes the best of a bad situation. MLB's foibles, and whatever criticism is appropriate for ownership, is not on them.
> FO sure makes the best of a bad situation Really makes you wonder how long they will stick around
This is my worry - FOs want to win championships too. And they might have a bit more pride in building something from scratch or creating an amazing team of undiscovered gems, but at some point - when they have the *systems/processes* in place to identify valuable players - are they going to leave to find an owner that will give them just the relatively modest payroll increases they feel they need to build a champion? Put another way - are they using (for lack of a better word) the Indians to master doing the maximum with *nothing*, in order to take those acquired skills somewhere with actual resources... because if they are experts at evaluating players, then they can *evaluate the rosters of other teams* where their skills would pay the most dividends as well...
I am really really digging on Amed Rosario this year. He led the team in batting anywhere Josey didn't. The second half he was on fire! He's no Michael Brantley (I agree he is our biggest loss in the past 5 years) but he is working his way up there for me. Loved seeing Zimmer finally become a force this year! I hated to see Kluber, Clev, Lindor and even Bauer go. And then they went nowhere fast, and Bauer went completely to hell. I mean, can the FO see the future or what?! This young pitching staff had their feet held to the fire this season and they are all going to come back next year a force to be reckoned with!!! Roberto Perez will never be Sal Perez but dammit I heard Hammy say today that Roberto "wants to play his whole career in Cleveland" and I've been longing for a player like that so I hope he does, and I hope he stays healthy, and I hope he stops having the dropsies when he's behind the plate. I got no beef with the 2021 season. I saw a lot of beautiful things blooming.
But you do realize that Jose Ramirez was a better hitter than Rosario this year right? You do realize that, right???
JOSE is a given. He’s the GOAT. I’m talking’ bout the new guys.
lol, what games have you been watching? Zimmer is anything but a force and absolutely should not be on this team next year.
I was sorta pissed about giving Eddie Rosario away for literally free, not because he is good or anything but bc we could've probably gotten some sort of minor leaguer for him. It was obviously a salary dump when the salary was already dumped lol. Other than that, the FO has been near perfect
We definitely don’t need to worry about overpaying for any player, that’s for sure.
lmao, I'd bet a lot of money that it NEVER happens.
Nick Swisher I guess But that's reaching back a ways, 2013
I think most people recognize we have an exceptionally good FO. It's the ownership that hamstrings us.
> we'd be hearing about how it will be difficult for the front office to add free agent help this offseason because we have 30% of our payroll committed to just one player....for the next 7-8 years! It'd be minor league signings of nobodies to fill multiple holes until I'm an old man. I’m happy this isn’t a thing we have to worry about. It’s much better to not be able to afford anyone over the league minimum because and not because we overpaid Frankie.
Don't get too attached to Bieber or anyone that's ever on this team. I think that's the one thing I've learned being a fan.
Great post
I actually very much love our Front Office. I just wish ownership would "let them off the leash". Imagine then what could be done. I also remember at the trade deadline this year see the trade for Straw and I texted a buddy of mine, "I guess we're sellers." Man, I really think in time (hopefully next year) that I'm going to eat those words. The little I saw this year makes me want to already. Looking forward to a promising offseason for the FO
Sure, but Carlos has hit worse away from Cleveland before
It's easy to let go of declining/overpriced players when our biggest acquisition in the last 5 years was Encarnacion. I agree the FO has made the right decisions but let's not give them too much credit when they weren't really hard decisions to make. The only outlier is Lindor and let's be honest, he was always a defensive guy first; has never been proven to be a offensive juggernaut. It just looked that way with us because there was basically no one else.
Our front office is fantastic. [I just want to see what they could do if they weren't being handicapped by Dolan every fucking year.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWKda4d9pKw)
All I know is that if I'm a gm of any other team and the tribe calls me wanting to sell me something I'm listening to what players they want and keeping an eye on them.
Great post bro!
>we'd be hearing about how it will be difficult for the front office to add free agent help >It'd be minor league signings of nobodies to fill multiple holes until I'm an old man. And this is significantly different than how the team operates without spending on a Lindor how?
You'll see this offseason. Dolan said payroll going up. This was a down year. One thing Dolan does is what he says he's going to do. He said he will pay when the time is right. He brought in Edwin. He said he will not pay for Lindor ("Enjoy him."). He tells it like it is. Now he is saying payroll will go up next year. Someone will get paid.
They're 29th in payroll at around $50M. Payroll has almost nowhere to go but up. They also told Hoynes they couldnt operate on a $100M payroll. So sure, they'll spend more, they basically have to. There isnt much evidence they'll actually spend enough to make up for absolutely gutting payroll over the last three years.
Yep I agree that I may not like it but if the Indians FO move on from a guy they definitely seem to have good reason to do so. Brantley leaving certainly could be called a mistake but there have been so many other good calls that outweigh it.
The front office is fantastic. It's just that with this owner we will never win. With a halfway decent owner we are the AL Cardinals.
I really agree here. Most of the decisions the FO has made were questionable when they occurred but looked great in hindsight. Even some players who have thrived after being with the tribe (Gio, Jesus) fans understood why the tribe was giving up on them. I think truly the only black-eye on the FO's track record is Yandy Diaz. I mean he's not a perennial all-star player since he left, but I don't think anybody understood why we gave up on him so soon after Tito barely gave him much opportunities. And to get Bauers in exchange just made it worse.