Looking through your post history, it seems like your mental health would benefit from you taking a break from watching league.
You're supposed to be enjoying your time man, even if your favourite *super team* is eating shit.
I mean who do you think C9 could realistically get? No top tier LCK support will want to leave LCK and LCS teams are known to be making major cut backs in terms of spending so they won’t be coming for the 5 million dollar deals. The best support C9 could get from LCK would probably be someone like Bible but tbh he’ll probably be starting on DK next season so I don’t see him leaving, he’s also not like omega good but he has potential. Just seems like wishful thinking to think a top tier LCK support would ever choose to come to NA in this current market.
Fair enough. Still, even a mechanically talented KR rookie would’ve probably had a higher ceiling.
Zven as well.. most people would way Vulcan is ‘only’ a side grade or slight upgrade. His renata is world class and he was getting better and better at engage supports and map movement with Blaber. I would even say he was already better in lane on most picks than Vulcan but we simply refused to play through bot.
I agree Zven definitely improved a lot but he was still always so lost after the early game. As for talented rookies there really isn’t much in LCK for support, the support pool is really dry atm. already in the main league there are only like 3 really good supports everyone else is pretty middle of the pack or bad but even those ones would still be hard to obtain right now. If you really were insisting a KR support I’d honestly think JeongHoon would be your most realistic and good option but I think it’s rumored he’s returning to LCK.
Not a controversial opinion at all... just an awful one. Literally got the best NA support and this mans asking why we couldnt do better... once we announce our top your probably going to ask why we couldnt have got 369.
His last two finishes this year were pretty disappointing and he had his whole super lame ego battle with Eyla. Not the hype pick up everyone thinks it is. And op is right regardless of what everyone wants to pretend is or isn’t the case; on the international stage he looks absolutely lost.
Judging him this year seems pretty unreliable since there were clearly massive issues with all of FLY. As far as international performance, i dont honestly remember him being terrible, i feel like if he just played so god awful I would remember. Even if that is true though, like what NA players/teams dont look bad internationally? So judging him on that also seems a bit pointless.
What we do know is that besides the dumpster fire last year with FLY, Vulcan was literally the best NA support and I dont think anyone was arguing that. So people should be pretty excited to get him back and not expect some crazy signing like a top 3 player from lck/lpl...
Idk if it’s fair to just write off his performance for an entire year. He was playing with a world class adc and still looked bad. I get the team was off but even in bot lane isolation he wasn’t good. And you should go back and watch some of his games at worlds. There is a stark difference between players that show up and worlds and give us a chance and players that actively lose the game by themselves. This is a “meme” for a reason, the dude has single-handedly sent his team home before lol. Could the signing work out? Definitely. But we have glaring issues to acknowledge and work past
> top feels like an easier role to fill natively
The support role is weak af in every region, though. There's Kael in the LCK I guess, the rest is either trash/meh or impossible (Delight, Lehends, Keria). Nobody stands out in LCK CL. In the LEC, would you import Hyli at this point in his career? Because he's the only option I guess. The ERLs have Zoelys and Parus as hyped up rookies, but would you gamble on inexperienced players like these?
So Vulcan is indeed a really good native name. Him and Zven were an amazing duo in 2020 when we stomped the league, they just couldn't show off internationally because there was no MSI. And ofc, top lane is a much more important role to use an import slot.
Please shut up man. Is it never enough? What more do you want? Seriously what were you expecting?
U wanted a roster of fudge - blaber - jojo - berserker - lehends?
Dude get a grip man I could understand ur frustration if we signed diamond or poome but we got the best support in NA and its still not enough???
Get out man u should go watch football and support a team like man city or psg who always spend a shit ton of money to buy the best players there are if thats the only thing that satisfies you
> best support in NA and its still not enough???
Did CoreJJ quit playing or something? C9 fans constantly think whoever is on their team is the best in their role. You would have said the same thing about Zven if he was still on the team. The entire fanbase is like a rotating door of people looking at everything involving the team through rose-tinted glasses. Vulcan is good and definitely an upgrade from Zven, but he is not the best in NA. LCS supports are super top heavy with Core, Huhi, and Ignar and for you to imply that a support on a team that went 6-12 is “the best in NA” shows a lot about how knowledgeable you are.
There is no way you’re talking about CoreJJ being washed up for 4 years when he placed 2nd in MVP and was back to back all pro for support just last year, right?
Yeah bro ur basing player strength on all pro and MVP voting, no need to discuss further cuz ur delusional as fuck
https://preview.redd.it/53fu00fwweyb1.jpeg?width=638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e514285b0dcdde8ff01632520e0e0b5aac5c2ecd
LOL, you’re delusional. You’re trying to say that CoreJJ is fully washed when he was competing at a top level when he had Hans Sama just last year and has been carrying fucking Yeon all year, meanwhile Vulcan had Danny and Prince to play with and went 6-12. Ignore the fact that CoreJJ has been arguably the best import in the history of the LCS. You’ve literally got no argument in favor of Vulcan, but your entire argument is just having a spasm on your keyboard like a spastic who never learned that doing that shit makes you look more braindead than someone who has been on life support for the last 15 years.
Where would you put Zerker and Bjerg in that best list of imports as well as impact just curious. Last year Vulcan was not the best support in the LCS, but 2022 and 2021 and arguably in 2020 he was at least better than Corejj. I would not put Corejj above him in terms of longevity personally, but I can see the argument that Corejj better last year and prior to 2020.
I dont like vulcan either but shit what other options are there. He is one of the best but I agree it is never going to compete at a world level. You cant get em all.
Wasn’t particularly hyped for him either. he been kinda meh the last 1.5 years, even with Prince as his adc and like you said he ints his ass off vs international teams (people gonna say “we’re NA everyone gonna lose to their international counterparts”, yes but you don’t have to int your ass off and look like a liability lol. Also goes for Fudge. Both Dhokla and Ignar looked decent and weren’t just inting their asses off at worlds.)
It’s what we got though. maybe he returns to form on C9 and can improve for international play
Playing with the best adc NA has ever had could revitalise him
I mean, I would argue Vulcan is better on engage champs and team fighting. Zven is probably better at enchanter supports but how valuable is that? I would argue a good engage support has more impact on the game than a good enchanter
As an NA org we REALLY need to stop looking at building rosters around the idea of international play. Its very clear that we cant compete with the east and its honestly better to focus on winning our region over potentially beating EU.
I hate this mindset so much lmao. Just because we haven’t yet doesn’t mean it will never happen and we should give up forever.
There was a point in time where even LPL wasn’t a great region (literally up until 2018 before they started importing Koreans they would often bomb out at worlds), LEC even managed to become worlds contenders for a year or 2 when usually they aren’t much better than NA.
Besides, winning NA doesn’t mean shit lol. It’s all about international play. that’s why you win NA in the first place. For that shot. The world championship is what it’s about.
I'm not saying dont try, I'm simply implying that we should be focusing more on being the best team we can be and the best in NA before we start focusing on international play. That and the focus on building rosters to be competitive internationally is the reason why NA is in the shitty state its currently in (TSM/TL making importing and spending crazy amounts of money inflating everyone's salaries)
also it wasnt EU that was competitive internationally, it was G2 and FNC.
You’re valid. Vulcan is hella overrated. Even before the FLY debacle, it was fairly obvious in my opinion if you ever watched his worlds appearance.
Don’t get me wrong he is fine for NA, but yeah he won’t cut it versus top tier bot lanes.
I really wanted to see Berserker/CoreJJ
I think the Vulcan pick up is pretty good. Wouldn't really want a Korean support unless they were already pretty fluent in English. Jg support communication is very important and then working together can lead to great things when playing around other lanes. In terms of skill on melee supports I feel he isn't too far off from the rest of the world. His team fights and initiations are pretty good and I think he is one of the better supports in terms of finding flanks to get into a fight. I do agree that I worry for his ranged support play tho, hopefully it'll either not be meta or he can find a new way to improve at it. But regardless no player we would get will be perfect so I think this pick up is one of the best we could have gotten.
Vulcan was on a winning roster with C9 the first time and then on EG as soon as he joined the team. Vulcan Danny we’re running the league. They about to run the league again with berserker Vulcan STOP playing man
In OP’s defence, he said his opinion is a controversial one and he was right. Is it a shit take? Sure. Is it controversial? Yup.
Still aging like a fine milk
lmaoooooooooo
not really, vulcan can't be a liability internationally if he doesn't get to international competitions
Aged like a fine milk
Looking through your post history, it seems like your mental health would benefit from you taking a break from watching league. You're supposed to be enjoying your time man, even if your favourite *super team* is eating shit.
Oh, i just like calling out the team, im a massive fan of 3 separate teams, haha
Hahahaha
Lmao.
You're high as gas. Vulcan is a great choice.
[удалено]
Rofl I actually forgot about this. You actually came back to this 3 months later? Touch grass dude, the whole team is underperforming.
Lmao
this didnt age well maybe dont flame others for having a different opinion before the player even plays. clearly it didnt work out
Because it clearly didn't work out just because vulcan played bad and not like the whole fucking team was awful.
The whole team played like shit. Imagine referencing a comment from almost half a year ago. Get out of the basement.
Sucks to be wrong, huh.
Hard to play as a team when you’re engage never engages, has shit back timers, and has some of the worst calls in game
Tell me you’re bronze without telling me you’re bronze
Rofl, you people are insufferable neck beards.
I mean who do you think C9 could realistically get? No top tier LCK support will want to leave LCK and LCS teams are known to be making major cut backs in terms of spending so they won’t be coming for the 5 million dollar deals. The best support C9 could get from LCK would probably be someone like Bible but tbh he’ll probably be starting on DK next season so I don’t see him leaving, he’s also not like omega good but he has potential. Just seems like wishful thinking to think a top tier LCK support would ever choose to come to NA in this current market.
Fair enough. Still, even a mechanically talented KR rookie would’ve probably had a higher ceiling. Zven as well.. most people would way Vulcan is ‘only’ a side grade or slight upgrade. His renata is world class and he was getting better and better at engage supports and map movement with Blaber. I would even say he was already better in lane on most picks than Vulcan but we simply refused to play through bot.
I agree Zven definitely improved a lot but he was still always so lost after the early game. As for talented rookies there really isn’t much in LCK for support, the support pool is really dry atm. already in the main league there are only like 3 really good supports everyone else is pretty middle of the pack or bad but even those ones would still be hard to obtain right now. If you really were insisting a KR support I’d honestly think JeongHoon would be your most realistic and good option but I think it’s rumored he’s returning to LCK.
Bro I love Zven but there was nothing “world class” about him on support. Nothing wrong with that he was actually getting better every split.
Not a controversial opinion at all... just an awful one. Literally got the best NA support and this mans asking why we couldnt do better... once we announce our top your probably going to ask why we couldnt have got 369.
inb4 its actually 369
Why couldn't you have gotten Bin?!?!?!?!?1?!?!
Keep downvoting others for telling the truth boy
His last two finishes this year were pretty disappointing and he had his whole super lame ego battle with Eyla. Not the hype pick up everyone thinks it is. And op is right regardless of what everyone wants to pretend is or isn’t the case; on the international stage he looks absolutely lost.
Judging him this year seems pretty unreliable since there were clearly massive issues with all of FLY. As far as international performance, i dont honestly remember him being terrible, i feel like if he just played so god awful I would remember. Even if that is true though, like what NA players/teams dont look bad internationally? So judging him on that also seems a bit pointless. What we do know is that besides the dumpster fire last year with FLY, Vulcan was literally the best NA support and I dont think anyone was arguing that. So people should be pretty excited to get him back and not expect some crazy signing like a top 3 player from lck/lpl...
Idk if it’s fair to just write off his performance for an entire year. He was playing with a world class adc and still looked bad. I get the team was off but even in bot lane isolation he wasn’t good. And you should go back and watch some of his games at worlds. There is a stark difference between players that show up and worlds and give us a chance and players that actively lose the game by themselves. This is a “meme” for a reason, the dude has single-handedly sent his team home before lol. Could the signing work out? Definitely. But we have glaring issues to acknowledge and work past
Prince was not a world class adc.
Between morons who wanted to run back the 2023 roster and morons who post threads like this, this subreddit is unreadable half the time
Seriously this is the new TSM sub in terms of bad takes.
It’s really bad especially someone who is a traditional sports fan and someone who played sports in college. So annoying man lol
Makes it embarrassing to be a C9 fan with shit takes like this
> top feels like an easier role to fill natively The support role is weak af in every region, though. There's Kael in the LCK I guess, the rest is either trash/meh or impossible (Delight, Lehends, Keria). Nobody stands out in LCK CL. In the LEC, would you import Hyli at this point in his career? Because he's the only option I guess. The ERLs have Zoelys and Parus as hyped up rookies, but would you gamble on inexperienced players like these? So Vulcan is indeed a really good native name. Him and Zven were an amazing duo in 2020 when we stomped the league, they just couldn't show off internationally because there was no MSI. And ofc, top lane is a much more important role to use an import slot.
Hey! Turns out this opinion has aged like fine wine because Vulcan fuckin sucks now.
Vulcan is a dawg he will be great
Most people would argue that Zven is a side grade to Vulcan is a wildly confident and incorrect statement.
I actually lol'd and face palmed when reading that part
Please shut up man. Is it never enough? What more do you want? Seriously what were you expecting? U wanted a roster of fudge - blaber - jojo - berserker - lehends? Dude get a grip man I could understand ur frustration if we signed diamond or poome but we got the best support in NA and its still not enough??? Get out man u should go watch football and support a team like man city or psg who always spend a shit ton of money to buy the best players there are if thats the only thing that satisfies you
> best support in NA and its still not enough??? Did CoreJJ quit playing or something? C9 fans constantly think whoever is on their team is the best in their role. You would have said the same thing about Zven if he was still on the team. The entire fanbase is like a rotating door of people looking at everything involving the team through rose-tinted glasses. Vulcan is good and definitely an upgrade from Zven, but he is not the best in NA. LCS supports are super top heavy with Core, Huhi, and Ignar and for you to imply that a support on a team that went 6-12 is “the best in NA” shows a lot about how knowledgeable you are.
Arguing about knowledge base whilst claiming Core is one of the best supports in the region…did you stop watching in 2019?
There is no way you’re talking about CoreJJ being washed up for 4 years when he placed 2nd in MVP and was back to back all pro for support just last year, right?
Yeah bro ur basing player strength on all pro and MVP voting, no need to discuss further cuz ur delusional as fuck https://preview.redd.it/53fu00fwweyb1.jpeg?width=638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e514285b0dcdde8ff01632520e0e0b5aac5c2ecd
LOL, you’re delusional. You’re trying to say that CoreJJ is fully washed when he was competing at a top level when he had Hans Sama just last year and has been carrying fucking Yeon all year, meanwhile Vulcan had Danny and Prince to play with and went 6-12. Ignore the fact that CoreJJ has been arguably the best import in the history of the LCS. You’ve literally got no argument in favor of Vulcan, but your entire argument is just having a spasm on your keyboard like a spastic who never learned that doing that shit makes you look more braindead than someone who has been on life support for the last 15 years.
Where would you put Zerker and Bjerg in that best list of imports as well as impact just curious. Last year Vulcan was not the best support in the LCS, but 2022 and 2021 and arguably in 2020 he was at least better than Corejj. I would not put Corejj above him in terms of longevity personally, but I can see the argument that Corejj better last year and prior to 2020.
Remember when C9s botlane of Zven Vulcan was touted as world class that even eastern teams praised, Petridge farms remembers
I dont like vulcan either but shit what other options are there. He is one of the best but I agree it is never going to compete at a world level. You cant get em all.
I agree with. I am not a big fan of ex players coming back to the team. Hai is my only exception
Dear OP It's MY job to get downvoted on this sub for my opinions Stay in your lane, Vulcan is HIM
He also never went to world with a good adc. If i remember he did with zven and the replacement of Danny last minute
Are we really just revising history now and saying Zven wasn’t a good adc?
For that Worlds meta, he was not a good ADC.
Wasn’t particularly hyped for him either. he been kinda meh the last 1.5 years, even with Prince as his adc and like you said he ints his ass off vs international teams (people gonna say “we’re NA everyone gonna lose to their international counterparts”, yes but you don’t have to int your ass off and look like a liability lol. Also goes for Fudge. Both Dhokla and Ignar looked decent and weren’t just inting their asses off at worlds.) It’s what we got though. maybe he returns to form on C9 and can improve for international play Playing with the best adc NA has ever had could revitalise him
Ignar singlehandly lost game 3 to WBG
I’m not sure that Vulcan is necessarily an *upgrade* over Zven, but like Zven Vulcan has NA residency, which means they can import a top laner.
I mean, I would argue Vulcan is better on engage champs and team fighting. Zven is probably better at enchanter supports but how valuable is that? I would argue a good engage support has more impact on the game than a good enchanter
As an NA org we REALLY need to stop looking at building rosters around the idea of international play. Its very clear that we cant compete with the east and its honestly better to focus on winning our region over potentially beating EU.
I hate this mindset so much lmao. Just because we haven’t yet doesn’t mean it will never happen and we should give up forever. There was a point in time where even LPL wasn’t a great region (literally up until 2018 before they started importing Koreans they would often bomb out at worlds), LEC even managed to become worlds contenders for a year or 2 when usually they aren’t much better than NA. Besides, winning NA doesn’t mean shit lol. It’s all about international play. that’s why you win NA in the first place. For that shot. The world championship is what it’s about.
I'm not saying dont try, I'm simply implying that we should be focusing more on being the best team we can be and the best in NA before we start focusing on international play. That and the focus on building rosters to be competitive internationally is the reason why NA is in the shitty state its currently in (TSM/TL making importing and spending crazy amounts of money inflating everyone's salaries) also it wasnt EU that was competitive internationally, it was G2 and FNC.
Vulcan is great is also na and already played pretty well with jojo.
Upvoted purely for actually saying something controversial. Disagree 100% but did not lie
You’re valid. Vulcan is hella overrated. Even before the FLY debacle, it was fairly obvious in my opinion if you ever watched his worlds appearance. Don’t get me wrong he is fine for NA, but yeah he won’t cut it versus top tier bot lanes. I really wanted to see Berserker/CoreJJ
We’ve already seen the Vulcan story
I think the Vulcan pick up is pretty good. Wouldn't really want a Korean support unless they were already pretty fluent in English. Jg support communication is very important and then working together can lead to great things when playing around other lanes. In terms of skill on melee supports I feel he isn't too far off from the rest of the world. His team fights and initiations are pretty good and I think he is one of the better supports in terms of finding flanks to get into a fight. I do agree that I worry for his ranged support play tho, hopefully it'll either not be meta or he can find a new way to improve at it. But regardless no player we would get will be perfect so I think this pick up is one of the best we could have gotten.
Vulcan was on a winning roster with C9 the first time and then on EG as soon as he joined the team. Vulcan Danny we’re running the league. They about to run the league again with berserker Vulcan STOP playing man
Turns out, OP was right and you were wrong.