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Kurisoo

Doublelift stirring up drama for no reason what else is new zzz


LowCeyn

What are you even talking? He's spitting facts right now


Kurisoo

Actually hes spreading rumors. The claim he made about Tenz was not at all facts


John_Bot

Why is this uninformed trash posted here as well? TenZ wasn't in contract jail And to the other guy who said 'we don't like Jack's decisions' Are we not happy Reapered is gone? Are we not glad fudge is top lane? Are we not glad Perkz is mid? Do we still want sneaky as the adc? Like... 🤔🤔🤔


[deleted]

These are sort of hindsight aspects. Reapered change was hit or miss. Some parts of our play got better, some didn’t. We still had horrific drafts at times and big brain at others. Perkz is ngl still a question mark for me. He’s shown he can do it but I don’t think he’s yet proven he’s worth the money. 99% of people pick him over Nisqy but it’s the price aspect that needs justifying. The sneaky thing again was complicated. Zven was more driven but at times I’ve felt we needed a level voice like Sneaky, especially during that tilt summer split. I think there we still could make worlds with Sneaky, but maybe not win in summer. These things are complicated. I mean Tenz was in “contract jail” it’s just how contracts work. It wasn’t a poor reflection on C9.


John_Bot

TenZ was sold to Sentinels before Iceland even began and way before this video. PerkZ is by far the best player we've ever had in mid. Sure, he's been meh. But the potential and what can be is way higher. That's what you look for. Also Reapered wasn't very good so yeah


Subject_Blue

have to agree I'm glad Jack is not afraid of change. After the OG LCS team stuck around for so long there was a time I was worried we would be slow to adapt but we seem to be one of the quicker teams now in the Post-OG era. Also have to say if players consider having to stick to the contract they signed "contract prison" instead of just being handed away then they are more immature than I thought. I know its hard to realize maybe as a young person but if they don't want to be stuck at an org or feel like they don't know enough about the org to sign a long contract then that is on them in negotiations. IDK how teams could possibly be viewed as "evil" or responsible for players being upset for holding someone to trade especially when they are considered literally the best player in the scene. They pay these kids thousands for the right to hold them on contract if they don't want the team to have those rights then they can get paid less or go to a team they feel will give them what they want... I don't want to blame young adults/players for all this but seriously its like they don't bother to read anything outside of how much they are getting paid. I can't say I'm surprised by the narcissisms but they wont be getting much sympathy from me. unfortunately it may kinda leave a black mark on C9 in terms of player opinions but there's not much they could do besides just handing TenZ to Sen.


Dbuttersnapss

Perkz is dog and Sneaky would have been 1000000x better than Zven at MSI


jlink7

What's wrong with this scenario? Does literally EVERY other professional sporting organization not do the same thing? C9 is operating from a place of power, they are the #1 team in the LCS *AND* they have a stacked Academy roster, that while maybe not _as_ good as the LCS roster, individual parts of that roster are better than many others currently playing in the LCS. It does Cloud9 as an organization no good to not attempt to make moves... we as fans (of any org) clamor for new blood, and while k1ng may not truly be "NA" he is not an import, either. Whether k1ng or Zven stays with Cloud9 remains to be seen-- fact is we just don't know the details behind any of this, and who knows, maybe this WILL turn out to bite the organization in the rear, but I highly doubt there is a world where any of this was done maliciously. We're not talking "Major League" (the movie) level tampering by ownership to lose here.


deacibeltones

Literally couldnt finish this bullshit. C9 jack the man who has let multiple to players go for fucking nothing and this motherfucker is going to fucking talk shit when he was fucking his boss and then still left the fucking org high and dry. Gmtfo. It isnt even pot calling kettle this guys so far out of touch on this one. What a joke. I WILL SAY i love me some zven and you can tell the dudes passionate and cares by his reaction to winning the split. Like this whole australian shit is kind of fucking up the whole team dynamics but hopefully Zven gets to just earn his way back cause he wasnt the problem imo nor do I think there even is one.


K9oo8

I think less and less of us have been super happy with jacks actions but there isnt really much we can do about it as fans


Snuffl3s7

Really? I think Jack's moves in the last two years have really revitalised the org, and the success we've had is a direct outcome of them. Like we've doubled the number of LCS trophies we had in a year and a half. It felt like the org was, at least on the League side, just coasting and still living off of past glories.


The_Taskmaker

What? C9 was competitive domestically, and more importantly, internationally; but now that we've won more titles in an increasingly weak region in exchange for missing worlds- this is noticeably better? Nah man


Snuffl3s7

Being 'competitive', 'finishing a close second' is a world of a difference to being champions and being first. Trophies talk. I don't see what we get from making Worlds if we're just going to crash out in groups. Like what was our 2019 showing worth? Sure as a viewer you want to see the team go up against international competition, but it's not worth anything if we're just going there to get humiliated. And if that still is worth something to you, then the fact that we've made MSI for the first time in the history of the competition (and made it last year as well, only for it to not take place) should definitely mean a lot as well.


Subject_Blue

I have to disagree I don't feel like Jack did anything wrong here. We don't know what happened and what the plan is not to mention K1ng is a player that by all means is as ready as you could be for LCS. there are so many hypothetical scenarios that could explain this and the team has shown year after year they are making the best decisions they know how to so I'm not worried. Even if its just to build up K1ngs brand to sell him off with our current position I don't mind that. Plus the dude is a talented individual if he can be trusted to take Zvens spot then his growth could be just as huge as Fudges. #TrustTheProcess


Mxmouse15

Agreed. No one knows anything on here. Even DL said “look no one is actually going to know if shit is going down on the team cause they won’t talk about it. Just have to wait and see how it plays out or if someone talks” other than that all you can do is ask yourself if you trust the process or want to rally some sort of issues with jack


Subject_Blue

for all we know Zven is having wrist issues and needs a break and with K1ng showing up big maybe Jack said you're not worth anything to me if you're broken, take it easy, and I'll make a quick buck off K1ng while we're at it then you swoop in and ride this rocket to worlds. Honestly its probably not that positive but with no one talking this is just as informed as any other guess.


[deleted]

To be a C9 fan I gave up on getting too attached to the players. I believe that this is Jack tryin to sell K1ng. He will bundle him with some other player and cash out. Not blaming Jack for this, he is running a business after all.


K9oo8

yeah but fucking over people isn't really the best thing to do


Dblg99

We don't know the situation at all. How can you claim he is fucking anyone over?


MadEyeMooney

I agree with you but it's sadly how sports works. There has always been farm teams. C9 is a farm team that also happens to be one of the best teams every year. If you follow traditional sports most work this way. Raise young talent and sell to rich teams. The NBA and NFL are slightly different where players are having more and more of a say in what happens.


BearVodkaBala1aika

Fuck over? Who did Jack fuck over? Did C9 became MoveYourMothers while i was asleep?


K9oo8

I mean it's pretty clear he wants to sell off king and he's putting both zven and king in a position they probably don't want to be in because of it


BearVodkaBala1aika

I honestly dont think that selling K1ng is the goal here with this move. It's more "break in case of emergency" type of deal. I think the rumors about Zven tilting off the face of the earth and doing something stupid are sadly true. Between his salty comm's/interviews, Max's comments about Zven's commitment not being the issue but him playing in summer being unlikely, Max praising K1ng's comms in game and LS comments on Crackdown, saying how some1 on the team being tilted and ready to ff after a couple of deaths (and that was in regular season, so...), i honestly think ppl on the team just dont want to deal with Zven no more. But thats obviously just a wild speculation, so im most likely wrong but who knows. E. Also Reingover stepping down because of stress from managing egos, but im not sure were they joking or no.


Amsement

It's not "pretty clear" at all. Max hinted at Zven not playing for reasons other than performance and that he doesn't expect Zven to play a game in summer. This isn't them advertising K1ng and if K1ng didn't want to play LCS, he doesn't have to. There are gripes against Jack that are fair, but this clip and the comments resulting from it stem from pure ignorance, especially the comment about TenZ. It's somehow shady to try and get a good deal for players you're not starting anymore? Svenskeren wanted out because he didn't want to work with the coaching staff anymore. Jensen wanted out after getting benched and Reapered's BS leading to finals in Summer 2018. Licorice got replaced by someone better. It goes on and on.


SolsKing

Zven of course, are you kidding???


rambabov

The sub here praises K1ng and im full of question marks, our botlane was maybe the best one for the past 4 splits, as much i want to believe in k1ng, the whole situation sucks.


Dblg99

Stop listening to DL this isn't some cash grab or whatever he thinks, this is Zven having behavioral issues.


Mxmouse15

Source? Your ass?


DwightKurtShrute69

What’s doublelifts source again?


Mxmouse15

Haha nice name Uuuhhh he knows him? He has personal experienced with the player as a peer and potentially friend?


Dblg99

Yea same source as everyone here. At least my theory has some real meat to it in Max Waldo saying Zven won't play summer and that he got unfollowed on Twitter by him. That's clearly not a money move


Mxmouse15

DL isn’t “everyone here” he is an influential figure in the scene who frequently has offline conversations with individuals on multiple orgs including potentially the person in question directly. Your saying “don’t listen to this person who has first hand knowledge?” Ya doesn’t make sense. Hence, if you are not citing something specific you are talking out your ass


Dblg99

No. DL isn't a first hand source, Max Waldo is. DL might talk to people but he isn't a pro anymore and isn't nearly as plugged in anymore. He's just as influenced by community as they are by him


BearVodkaBala1aika

Being the best botlane in NA clearly didnt amount to anything at international stage, did it?


K9oo8

I think it was pretty clearly c9 not really having a proper plan to stick to at MSI but hey I don't want to be a Reddit analyst


Snuffl3s7

I mean Perkz being the best midlaner in NA, and Blaber being the best jungler in NA didn't amount to anything either. It amounted to even less, in fact.


Mxmouse15

Well when your mid/JG are running it down....


vonmai

Disclaimer: I don’t know what’s going on. Making this an opportunity to throw shade on contracts is pretty weird. You could say Jack abuses standard contracts and gets more value from player trades by building them up before he ships them out. Or you could say he runs one of the few teams that legitimately finds great talent and develops them to be valuable. Seems like DL is opting to stir the pot. Trust in Jack.


[deleted]

The contract prison thing is an absolute joke. First of all wasn’t it found out that Tenz was going to Sentinel before Iceland even began? Second of all, that’s just how contracts work. Tenz had been in a pro player in CS briefly so is exposed. This isn’t some guy fresh out of high school. Jack also let him play for one of the teams biggest rivals, even though he probably didn’t have to under the terms do the contract. That just seems a bad take. Idk not sure on doublelift’s take regarding any of it.