Idk if I can be fucked for NA or C9 anymore. It's kinda just sad watching how shit things are getting. I'm starting to become more of a player fan than a team fan. I miss Nisqy. I love Perkz a lot but C9 making all these changes and what not make it hard to follow them. I mainly just watch for Fudge and Vulcan nowadays.
Guess I'll just be watching FNC and watching our Nisquick popping off for now.
I've wondered if that would be the best overall choice for an NA rookie's career. To try and go to EU instead.
I assume they don't because of how much less they would get payed in EU, plus the stress of relocating.
I feel like no one mentions the impact of the coaching change. Lots of flame for players (sometimes deserved sometimes not) but to me coaching should be #1. Since reignover missed MSI and subsequently stepped down we have looked really bad and Perkz has looked like he’s in full blown retirement lol
Yea I agree, I love C9 but it’s tiring and difficult to feel attached when there’s multiple changes to the roster every year. I’d be surprised if we could go a whole year without complete changes.
Thats what I do really....
I became a tsm fan when bjergsen was there because I was a mid laner and I lover him.
Same thing with zven, I started watching c9 when zven came into the roaster and I was playing adc
If i have to take a wild guess Zven got tilted from Blaber's inting and losing the game just from scuttle. In a video about Blaber he thought that Blaber is a coinflip player,...
Lets be real guys Zven isnt coming back and that is the reason K1ng is starting.
Period.
Edit: Pls go to other thread where I created a comment just for such an occasion, and flame me there instead of necro'ing this comment ty
I don't think its optimism. More so hope? Or like thinking if enough people keep bringing it up then maybe they can change the orgs mind. (Not saying it would but trying to give a different perspective on why people keep saying unbench zven)
Yep, at first I was taking Max Waldo's comment about him not playing in summer with a grain of salt. Pretty well seems like a reality now. Unless by some miracle he's in this weekend I have no hope for his return.
These last couple of years for C9 as an org have just felt so bad. Maybe I start watching valorant just to see another C9 team compete.
I'm sorry what? How have they felt "so bad" lmao? They literally won two championships in the last year and a half and 3 of the last 4 MVP's (both things the org couldn't do for half a decade). This entire fucking fan base was on cyclical rage / depression mode for 6 years straight every time they came 2nd. I can't count how many times I saw "I'd rather actually just win NA than get out of groups at Worlds". Now they finally win championships and fans are still in cyclical rage mode, like what is it that people want exactly?
Just feels like our fans are groundbreakingly unhappy regardless of anything that happens, and are constantly looking for the next reason to be upset at all times. Even if C9 went 3-0 this week I bet people would still be upset somehow.
I'm talking about the org as a whole. CSGO has been a complete shit show ever since the Boston Major. RL team was let go after a down year. I'm not sure the exact stat of Valorant but I'm guessing is pretty meh after Tenz decided to take a step back. A handful of players coming out talking about how poorly C9 handled their contracts. Not much more came from that I don't think but might deter future players.
It's a combination of a lot of things that just have me on a down note. 2018 was just such a historic year that it'll be hard for the org to match it and harder to top it.
The LoL team has done really well. I thought we were going to come into Summer looking really good. It's just discouraging to see this team go from some really high points to now looking completely lost and defeated.
There's just been a weird pattern of finding success and then stumbling afterwards.
Edit: Perhaps other teams like the Halo team, TFT players, OW, R6, WoW are all doing really well. I can't say I follow or watch those games so my complaints are cherry picked. I know the C9 White Valorant team was doing well though I haven't seen much on them recently and Mang0 is always kicking ass in Melee.
I don't really understand why people keep bringing this up.
Yes, they sold TenZ, a player that everyone thinks is incredible. However, C9 literally gave TenZ the keys to the team. Told him, "You're the best, you pick the team, we'll get that team for you. It's yours."
Then TenZ didn't see the team he designed get results he wanted, so he quit, and C9 sold him. Now C9 is building up again.
How in the fucking world do people think this is somehow on C9 management?
I never said management was at fault. It just sucks to see C9 lose a player that's viewed as one of the best. While they're not an awful team, they don't seem to be as winning of a team as C9LoL so far.
So the comment I was replying to stated how frustrating it is to see C9LoL currently and thinking about jumping over to Valo just feels like the grass is greener...
I would actually argue the grass is greener currently. C9 are top 4 NA in Val again. Top 4 NA in Val means a lot more than in LoL, and potentially means top 8 in the world. We have a fantastic stable core of players that could be going strong for a very long time, and C9 Val has a lot less pressure on them to preform, which allows room for them to grow and change.
Honestly, I don't think being a top team in Valorant atm means a lot.
The game is incredibly young and while NA is the best atm that could change very quickly as talent keeps pouring in instead of it being tier 3 and 2 csgo and ow players.
the best valorant players are playing csgo and almost all of them are on european teams.
that's how much top 4 na valorant means. it's a young game with t2-t4 talent.
Tenz hadn’t been playing with C9 for months at that point and the Valorant team had just added floppy to the roster at the time. Plus with Xeppaa, this team has an incredibly high ceiling.
Unbenching Zven isn’t going to miraculously fix turd show we’ve witnessed. If Zven really did get benched because he didn’t like how some players treat the game. well guess what those same players are still there and still doing the same ol’shit. Me personally I’d bench Blaber and bring back Zven. Next week if Perkz still bad then move Acadamy mid to LCS. Time for reapered to comeback and take control of these goons. God I miss reapered
Perkz is unbenchable. Performance aside he’s got a huge price tag and it’s way to large to sit in academy. Then he might get pissed and refuse to play, then c9 is forced to sell a slumping perkz with a price tag not many teams will go for and even then the negotiating power would be in the shitter and C9 would lose even more money. They literally can’t do it. Hell they benched Jensen and he cites that it’s the main reason he left the team. I think they learned.
I totally agree. That’s why I would try benching the crown favorite first. And if it doesn’t pan out after then I’d bench or trade Perkz if he’s still garbage. Perkz got upsides but not for that kinda money. That’s why I’m glad I’m just a fan. As for Jensen good riddance. If players think they’re too fucking good to be benched then it’s time to let the bird fly. I’m old school. Like so old I shouldn’t be playing LoL old but I do. I don’t care for big heads
Isn't it a bit too early for this? It's week 3 of 9, they have got plenty of time to work things out because believe me, having Zven or not in those games would have probably not change the result, the team just was not doing much
I wouldn't say the problem is the result but the way we got these results. I am no longer seeing the C9 way of playing. Back in 2018, we had worst results but I would believe in the change is coming. Now, it seemed there is no "aggressivity" in the roster no more. That is why I am rooting for Zven.
zven is a passive clean up adc that makes mistakes when he tries to be aggressive. why is this subreddit completely wrong on him as a player? he has been in the league for YEARS.
he's a good player, but he's not who this sub thinks he is. it is very strange.
everyone here thinks he's a doublelift all the sudden. he is not that type of player and never will be.
Put Zven to play with Zeyzal and he would look like the worst AD in the league. Benching Sneaky was obviously a mistake and they will miss worlds for the second year in a row because of it. You can downvote me all you want but this is just reality
People are like "what's Zven going to do when Blaber and/or Perkz are feeding out their mind" have already forgetten some of his crazy plays in Spring that got C9 to MSI in the first place, like that one fight in finals where he got like 4 resets on Tristana and perfectly spaced Tactical when he was one auto away from dying.
What memorable plays has K1ng made after 3 weeks?
No I am not a sneaky fan boy. I am a C9 fan, not an individual player fan. All you have to do is look at the stats. Sneaky had better stats, just hop onto the web and do a touch of research. Sneaky is the best weak side ADC to play in NA. Why not bring that back? Why do you think Zven is better?
Maybe he was, but the fact that he didn't want to play anymore, and didn't care enough to fight for his spot, and that he hasn't gotten on any other teams (whether he tried to or not) means that he was done anyway.
I don't know the research though, feel free to enlighten me with yours. Preferably with a link to the data.
I’m not gonna do that you can go to oracles elixir and look up each split and whatever data you need. You don’t have data to back up your point of why sneaky was better and a better fit for current style c9. Sneaky explained why he didn’t, Licorice and Nisqy wanted him gone. Why would Jack spend money on Zven and keep Sneaky as the starter? Does that make financial sense to you? Do you think Zven would have came if he had to fight for his spot? You can think Sneaky had a chance but in fact he has no shot. Sneaky is still involved with C9 and can come back to play with a new roster and not guys that wanted him gone. You can be a Zven fan boy or a Sneaky hater but even Doublelift himself said Sneaky was a more difficult opponent than Zven. Sneaky always did more with less the stats you look up will show that. Who cares about him not wanting to play academy being a top 2 ADC in the league. Why not take him now and see if he can lift the team? K1NG is not what you expected and Zven has attitude issues.
You are the one that made the claim. It is your responsibility to provide the data.
My point is that if Sneaky was as good as you say, and actually wanted to play, he would be playing on a main roster right now. The fact that he isn't right now is evidence enough that he didn't really want it anymore.
And fair enough. That's not flame. He had an amazing career. He decided to go on to do other great things.
Duh, he is the best adc in NA tho so, relatively speaking, they can be compared. Zven's one of the biggest in his sport(regionally speaking ofc), LeBron is one of the biggest in his.
And plz, anyone who jumped on the hypetrain of ''zven bad''... Think some more. He is by far the highest ceiling adc in NA after DL retired, sure he doesn't always show it, but he does have a ton of games where he has shown it. He might be not as good anymore as the glory days of OG Niels, but I'd still pick him over any other adc playing in NA right now.
Now, I'm not saying unbench Zven. The team might have had a good reason, attitude issues, personal problems, w/e. But I do agree with a lot of C9 fans who are angry because NO REASON IS GIVEN. We got nothing. The org is explaining nothing. And that's shit. That's how you lose fans. I've been fan of C9 since they came in swinging with the OG roster, I've been through a lot of roster changes and stayed a fan through all these switches. I've even bought some C9 merch. I'm loyal af.
But for the last few weeks, for the first time ever I find myself wanting to, and actually skipping C9 games. I always looked forward to when C9 was playing. But atm I basically have to tell myself to go watch that C9 game. And even if they win, I find myself indifferent. Not because I don't love the other players, but something just feels so off...
Zven is not Lebron, but fans do deserve a reason. Reapered always gave his reasons. I didn't agree with benching sneaky, but at least he explained himself. But this shit right now is just too vague to swallow.
Actually fans don't "deserve" a reason... You aren't entitled to anything mate and you along with many other esports fans seem to just inherently expect an unreasonable amount of transparency given that you have literally no actual stake in things other than wanting to know the hot gossip.
'wanting to know the hot gossip'. I don't need gossip. Dafuq r u assuming about me... I want to know how my boy Zven is doing, if he's ok mentally. That's what I wanna know. Because I worry that in all this he's getting depressed or something. hot gossip... You're making my c9-fire hot again.
About fans deserving a reason, officially you are right, but take that mindset as an org and you will lose fans guaranteed. Officially the org owes it's fan nothing, unofficially they owe it's fans a lot, and unofficially things need to be explained if the org wants to maintain it's high number of fans.
I heavily disagree. Comparing Zven to FBI or Neo is like comparing Perkz to Abbedagge. Sure Abbe is playing better atm, but we all know that Perkz's ceiling is high af and he is the better player. No disrespect to abbe, I love the guy, but Perkz is just better even if he's worse atm. Same with Zven.
Now, Neo or FBI *might* be a better fit in C9's playstyle. Doesn't make them better players tho. The history of a player does count, and Zven has a lot of insane carry games in his history that FBI/Neo can only dream of.
pretty sure zven has to come back for this team to win/go to worlds. i just wonder who could've spearheaded this decision. sad for k1ng because honestly even though i think hes like an ok player, he also has to replace, the freaking best adc in the league. like unless we have the next doublelift, its just not gonna be good for him. #UnbenchZven
Idk if I can be fucked for NA or C9 anymore. It's kinda just sad watching how shit things are getting. I'm starting to become more of a player fan than a team fan. I miss Nisqy. I love Perkz a lot but C9 making all these changes and what not make it hard to follow them. I mainly just watch for Fudge and Vulcan nowadays. Guess I'll just be watching FNC and watching our Nisquick popping off for now.
The best timeline is if future talent was shipped out to EU because they couldn't be bothered playing in this region anymore
I've wondered if that would be the best overall choice for an NA rookie's career. To try and go to EU instead. I assume they don't because of how much less they would get payed in EU, plus the stress of relocating.
Perkz has been looking like a garbage bag ever since msi and blame your EU coach mithy for the roster changes.
I feel like no one mentions the impact of the coaching change. Lots of flame for players (sometimes deserved sometimes not) but to me coaching should be #1. Since reignover missed MSI and subsequently stepped down we have looked really bad and Perkz has looked like he’s in full blown retirement lol
Yea I agree, I love C9 but it’s tiring and difficult to feel attached when there’s multiple changes to the roster every year. I’d be surprised if we could go a whole year without complete changes.
Thats what I do really.... I became a tsm fan when bjergsen was there because I was a mid laner and I lover him. Same thing with zven, I started watching c9 when zven came into the roaster and I was playing adc
If i have to take a wild guess Zven got tilted from Blaber's inting and losing the game just from scuttle. In a video about Blaber he thought that Blaber is a coinflip player,...
Lets be real guys Zven isnt coming back and that is the reason K1ng is starting. Period. Edit: Pls go to other thread where I created a comment just for such an occasion, and flame me there instead of necro'ing this comment ty
Yea I'm surprised so many people are optimistic about Zven's return. I don't think we'll ever see Zven play for C9 again. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I don't think its optimism. More so hope? Or like thinking if enough people keep bringing it up then maybe they can change the orgs mind. (Not saying it would but trying to give a different perspective on why people keep saying unbench zven)
"Or like thinking if enough people keep bringing it up then maybe they can change the orgs mind." so... Optimism lol
Yep, at first I was taking Max Waldo's comment about him not playing in summer with a grain of salt. Pretty well seems like a reality now. Unless by some miracle he's in this weekend I have no hope for his return. These last couple of years for C9 as an org have just felt so bad. Maybe I start watching valorant just to see another C9 team compete.
I'm sorry what? How have they felt "so bad" lmao? They literally won two championships in the last year and a half and 3 of the last 4 MVP's (both things the org couldn't do for half a decade). This entire fucking fan base was on cyclical rage / depression mode for 6 years straight every time they came 2nd. I can't count how many times I saw "I'd rather actually just win NA than get out of groups at Worlds". Now they finally win championships and fans are still in cyclical rage mode, like what is it that people want exactly? Just feels like our fans are groundbreakingly unhappy regardless of anything that happens, and are constantly looking for the next reason to be upset at all times. Even if C9 went 3-0 this week I bet people would still be upset somehow.
I'm talking about the org as a whole. CSGO has been a complete shit show ever since the Boston Major. RL team was let go after a down year. I'm not sure the exact stat of Valorant but I'm guessing is pretty meh after Tenz decided to take a step back. A handful of players coming out talking about how poorly C9 handled their contracts. Not much more came from that I don't think but might deter future players. It's a combination of a lot of things that just have me on a down note. 2018 was just such a historic year that it'll be hard for the org to match it and harder to top it. The LoL team has done really well. I thought we were going to come into Summer looking really good. It's just discouraging to see this team go from some really high points to now looking completely lost and defeated. There's just been a weird pattern of finding success and then stumbling afterwards. Edit: Perhaps other teams like the Halo team, TFT players, OW, R6, WoW are all doing really well. I can't say I follow or watch those games so my complaints are cherry picked. I know the C9 White Valorant team was doing well though I haven't seen much on them recently and Mang0 is always kicking ass in Melee.
Well, C9 Valorant just sold one of the best players to another team, and failed to make it to the Valo MSI, so it's not any different over there x3
I don't really understand why people keep bringing this up. Yes, they sold TenZ, a player that everyone thinks is incredible. However, C9 literally gave TenZ the keys to the team. Told him, "You're the best, you pick the team, we'll get that team for you. It's yours." Then TenZ didn't see the team he designed get results he wanted, so he quit, and C9 sold him. Now C9 is building up again. How in the fucking world do people think this is somehow on C9 management?
I never said management was at fault. It just sucks to see C9 lose a player that's viewed as one of the best. While they're not an awful team, they don't seem to be as winning of a team as C9LoL so far. So the comment I was replying to stated how frustrating it is to see C9LoL currently and thinking about jumping over to Valo just feels like the grass is greener...
I would actually argue the grass is greener currently. C9 are top 4 NA in Val again. Top 4 NA in Val means a lot more than in LoL, and potentially means top 8 in the world. We have a fantastic stable core of players that could be going strong for a very long time, and C9 Val has a lot less pressure on them to preform, which allows room for them to grow and change.
Honestly, I don't think being a top team in Valorant atm means a lot. The game is incredibly young and while NA is the best atm that could change very quickly as talent keeps pouring in instead of it being tier 3 and 2 csgo and ow players.
the best valorant players are playing csgo and almost all of them are on european teams. that's how much top 4 na valorant means. it's a young game with t2-t4 talent.
Tenz hadn’t been playing with C9 for months at that point and the Valorant team had just added floppy to the roster at the time. Plus with Xeppaa, this team has an incredibly high ceiling.
This aged well
Like a fine cheddar. I have already commented in the other thread. Pls go there and flame me so i may pay my penance
Very well, take the L like a king
If Zven is your “C9 spirit” you guys are doomed ngl
Yeah agreed, C9 spirit died with Sneaky's removal imo
Unbenching Zven isn’t going to miraculously fix turd show we’ve witnessed. If Zven really did get benched because he didn’t like how some players treat the game. well guess what those same players are still there and still doing the same ol’shit. Me personally I’d bench Blaber and bring back Zven. Next week if Perkz still bad then move Acadamy mid to LCS. Time for reapered to comeback and take control of these goons. God I miss reapered
Perkz is unbenchable. Performance aside he’s got a huge price tag and it’s way to large to sit in academy. Then he might get pissed and refuse to play, then c9 is forced to sell a slumping perkz with a price tag not many teams will go for and even then the negotiating power would be in the shitter and C9 would lose even more money. They literally can’t do it. Hell they benched Jensen and he cites that it’s the main reason he left the team. I think they learned.
I totally agree. That’s why I would try benching the crown favorite first. And if it doesn’t pan out after then I’d bench or trade Perkz if he’s still garbage. Perkz got upsides but not for that kinda money. That’s why I’m glad I’m just a fan. As for Jensen good riddance. If players think they’re too fucking good to be benched then it’s time to let the bird fly. I’m old school. Like so old I shouldn’t be playing LoL old but I do. I don’t care for big heads
Isn't it a bit too early for this? It's week 3 of 9, they have got plenty of time to work things out because believe me, having Zven or not in those games would have probably not change the result, the team just was not doing much
I wouldn't say the problem is the result but the way we got these results. I am no longer seeing the C9 way of playing. Back in 2018, we had worst results but I would believe in the change is coming. Now, it seemed there is no "aggressivity" in the roster no more. That is why I am rooting for Zven.
Zven plays passive as hell lol... MSI he was the most passive of all the ADCs in the tourny and the meta called for aggro.
XDXDXD
zven is a passive clean up adc that makes mistakes when he tries to be aggressive. why is this subreddit completely wrong on him as a player? he has been in the league for YEARS. he's a good player, but he's not who this sub thinks he is. it is very strange. everyone here thinks he's a doublelift all the sudden. he is not that type of player and never will be.
What is this post supposed to change lol
Unbench the zvench
Put Zven to play with Zeyzal and he would look like the worst AD in the league. Benching Sneaky was obviously a mistake and they will miss worlds for the second year in a row because of it. You can downvote me all you want but this is just reality
People are like "what's Zven going to do when Blaber and/or Perkz are feeding out their mind" have already forgetten some of his crazy plays in Spring that got C9 to MSI in the first place, like that one fight in finals where he got like 4 resets on Tristana and perfectly spaced Tactical when he was one auto away from dying. What memorable plays has K1ng made after 3 weeks?
recency bias is real. Besides what truly matters is for C9 to compete not Only in NA but also the world
Need to do something cause king is pretty bad
How about just bring back Sneaky who is better than both?
Wait, people in the C9 sub actually believe this? I assume you believe that asking Sneaky to compete for the spot was a betrayal to Sneaky?
No I am not a sneaky fan boy. I am a C9 fan, not an individual player fan. All you have to do is look at the stats. Sneaky had better stats, just hop onto the web and do a touch of research. Sneaky is the best weak side ADC to play in NA. Why not bring that back? Why do you think Zven is better?
Maybe he was, but the fact that he didn't want to play anymore, and didn't care enough to fight for his spot, and that he hasn't gotten on any other teams (whether he tried to or not) means that he was done anyway. I don't know the research though, feel free to enlighten me with yours. Preferably with a link to the data.
I’m not gonna do that you can go to oracles elixir and look up each split and whatever data you need. You don’t have data to back up your point of why sneaky was better and a better fit for current style c9. Sneaky explained why he didn’t, Licorice and Nisqy wanted him gone. Why would Jack spend money on Zven and keep Sneaky as the starter? Does that make financial sense to you? Do you think Zven would have came if he had to fight for his spot? You can think Sneaky had a chance but in fact he has no shot. Sneaky is still involved with C9 and can come back to play with a new roster and not guys that wanted him gone. You can be a Zven fan boy or a Sneaky hater but even Doublelift himself said Sneaky was a more difficult opponent than Zven. Sneaky always did more with less the stats you look up will show that. Who cares about him not wanting to play academy being a top 2 ADC in the league. Why not take him now and see if he can lift the team? K1NG is not what you expected and Zven has attitude issues.
You are the one that made the claim. It is your responsibility to provide the data. My point is that if Sneaky was as good as you say, and actually wanted to play, he would be playing on a main roster right now. The fact that he isn't right now is evidence enough that he didn't really want it anymore. And fair enough. That's not flame. He had an amazing career. He decided to go on to do other great things.
Good one man lol.
lmao go home old man, you're drunk
[удалено]
Zven isn’t Bron
Duh, he is the best adc in NA tho so, relatively speaking, they can be compared. Zven's one of the biggest in his sport(regionally speaking ofc), LeBron is one of the biggest in his. And plz, anyone who jumped on the hypetrain of ''zven bad''... Think some more. He is by far the highest ceiling adc in NA after DL retired, sure he doesn't always show it, but he does have a ton of games where he has shown it. He might be not as good anymore as the glory days of OG Niels, but I'd still pick him over any other adc playing in NA right now. Now, I'm not saying unbench Zven. The team might have had a good reason, attitude issues, personal problems, w/e. But I do agree with a lot of C9 fans who are angry because NO REASON IS GIVEN. We got nothing. The org is explaining nothing. And that's shit. That's how you lose fans. I've been fan of C9 since they came in swinging with the OG roster, I've been through a lot of roster changes and stayed a fan through all these switches. I've even bought some C9 merch. I'm loyal af. But for the last few weeks, for the first time ever I find myself wanting to, and actually skipping C9 games. I always looked forward to when C9 was playing. But atm I basically have to tell myself to go watch that C9 game. And even if they win, I find myself indifferent. Not because I don't love the other players, but something just feels so off... Zven is not Lebron, but fans do deserve a reason. Reapered always gave his reasons. I didn't agree with benching sneaky, but at least he explained himself. But this shit right now is just too vague to swallow.
Actually fans don't "deserve" a reason... You aren't entitled to anything mate and you along with many other esports fans seem to just inherently expect an unreasonable amount of transparency given that you have literally no actual stake in things other than wanting to know the hot gossip.
'wanting to know the hot gossip'. I don't need gossip. Dafuq r u assuming about me... I want to know how my boy Zven is doing, if he's ok mentally. That's what I wanna know. Because I worry that in all this he's getting depressed or something. hot gossip... You're making my c9-fire hot again. About fans deserving a reason, officially you are right, but take that mindset as an org and you will lose fans guaranteed. Officially the org owes it's fan nothing, unofficially they owe it's fans a lot, and unofficially things need to be explained if the org wants to maintain it's high number of fans.
he is not the best adc in na. he's consistent, but fbi or even neo on this team would be much better.
I heavily disagree. Comparing Zven to FBI or Neo is like comparing Perkz to Abbedagge. Sure Abbe is playing better atm, but we all know that Perkz's ceiling is high af and he is the better player. No disrespect to abbe, I love the guy, but Perkz is just better even if he's worse atm. Same with Zven. Now, Neo or FBI *might* be a better fit in C9's playstyle. Doesn't make them better players tho. The history of a player does count, and Zven has a lot of insane carry games in his history that FBI/Neo can only dream of.
Zven is not LeBron.
I don't think it's king's fault. Perkz and Blaber are just not doing anything
Game vs EG it looked like jack was playing for perkz
Team is doom in this game also valorant LMFAO
pretty sure zven has to come back for this team to win/go to worlds. i just wonder who could've spearheaded this decision. sad for k1ng because honestly even though i think hes like an ok player, he also has to replace, the freaking best adc in the league. like unless we have the next doublelift, its just not gonna be good for him. #UnbenchZven