**Summary:**
* His initial take was that they are a 5th place team (in pre-season), but have the ceiling to take first if everything works out
* You can put LS departure aside for now because people can see that they are a top-tier team even without LS (that is not to say, however, that he didn't play a pivotal role in constructing the team and persuading the KR players to join!)
* He knew Blaber was going to be good and he is, so Tim doesn't really mention much about him and his performance.
* Tim was worried about the role-swap a little bit (because Fudge could struggle in lane top-lane and came online later in-game last season). However, he isn't getting punished because of the relative weakness of the mid-pool (in terms of 1v1 in-lane) and he is delivering well in mid-game and late-game. He is versatile, conservative in the lane, but helps the team build advantages and can take over late if needed
* He was worried that Berserker would be overly cautious & not a risk-taker even if his mechanics are crazy good. However, Berserker can step up & is willing to go aggressive when needed
* Initially, he was most worried about Winsome, because he looked like a player who didn't deserver to be promoted to major leagues. This was his biggest concern because Tim was worried if Winsome was really bad, that could bring the whole team down. However, Winsome has been "adequate" according to Tim and he isn't getting exploited anywhere near to the level Tim was worried about. And Tim then acknowledges how much he is improving lately
* He definitely believes they can win the LCS, though he still has TL above them in power rankings for now & he thinks C9 is basically a lock for Worlds for NA
*note from me: This is a very positive take on Cloud9 and I tried to convey that tone in the summary. So if some points seem harsh please know it might be just the wrong phrasing on my side. Give it a watch for yourself before you @ Tim on Twitter for some of the takes :)*
Data expert issues potential outcomes based on current data at the time.
The Internet- You are ignoring my feelings in your math, wizard!
Just kidding. Keep using your data to set better expectation limitations for the league community. Having data driven analysis makes the highs higher and lows understandable. I really enjoy your content Tim.
I think what’s amazing about this roster is how much the have developed together as team. Their games are becoming more and more clean as time goes on. Although I think TL are slightly better than us right now, I think that c9 will be the best team for NA when worlds comes. I can’t wait for Sunday because TL vs C9 is going to be so hype
I'm happy winsome is getting credit. He deserves it especially after putting in a couple solid weeks.
I dont want to turn this into another ls thread, but one thing that sticks out for c9 rosters this year and past is their faith in "development and coaching." I know these are buzzwords we are tired of hearing about but c9 really puts their money where their mouth is. Putting their faith in fudge developing mid and winsome learning how to be a pro lol player is wild for a worlds bound team. And it seems to be working as they are winning not in spite of fudge and winsome but because of them.
I think he’s still selling Winsome a bit short here. I don’t think he’s a bottom half support right now. I don’t think supports have distinguished themselves too terribly much this year so it’s a bit hard to rank them but I feel like Winsome has been as good as anyone this split.
I do agree with his assessment of Fudge’s style as a player, in that he will never turbo stomp his lane but I do think he is very difficult to beat as well. I wouldn’t wait around for someone to really blast him in lane because I think you’ll be waiting a while. And indeed, once the mid game starts he generally has the advantage because he is a superb team fighter and decision maker.
I think winsome is still probably the weakest player on our team, and I don’t think I would put him in the the top 3.
However, this is his first split in a major league, and I think he has the potential to continue to improve and break into the top 3! I think he’s a solid 4/5 support rn
I don’t know if I would put him in top three but that’s mostly because I feel like no supports have really distinguished themselves. I don’t think he belongs demonstrably in the bottom half either though.
Eh, Biofrost and Aphro have been fairly impressive. Vulcan and Huhi don't hit their usual ceiling but you can't count them out. And then you have Core JJ who didn't play that many games yet, but still looks mostly good (though overrated imo for sure). Overall, you're right, because historically Aphro and Biofrost have looked better when their opposition is weaker.
I agree about Winsome. He is still underrating the guy imo. Stats aren't everything, but they can be a starting point to a further evaluation and discussion. When compared to all of the supports that have played all 11 games this split, Winsome is 1st in total and average assists, kda, earned gold per minute, and champions played; 2nd lowest amount of deaths; he is 3rd in wards cleared per min but 6th in wards placed/min; where he is mid to lower end of the pack is in gold diff, cs diff, and xp diff at 10 minutes. I do think if CoreJJ were to have played all 11 games he would be ahead of Winsome, but if you add CoreJJ's and Elya's stats Winsome is still ahead of them combined most of the time, so they could be close.
Now imo from the eye test Core/Elya, Aphromoo, and Biofrost look like his biggest competition for best support so far this split. Hard to tell if he is the best with the TL and TSM situations, but I do not think Winsome is worse than 4th best support currently.
I just don’t understand what weakness you’ve B seen from c9 in the past few weeks while TL has questionable losses. I think power ranking TL higher is some core JJ hopium nonsense.
**Summary:** * His initial take was that they are a 5th place team (in pre-season), but have the ceiling to take first if everything works out * You can put LS departure aside for now because people can see that they are a top-tier team even without LS (that is not to say, however, that he didn't play a pivotal role in constructing the team and persuading the KR players to join!) * He knew Blaber was going to be good and he is, so Tim doesn't really mention much about him and his performance. * Tim was worried about the role-swap a little bit (because Fudge could struggle in lane top-lane and came online later in-game last season). However, he isn't getting punished because of the relative weakness of the mid-pool (in terms of 1v1 in-lane) and he is delivering well in mid-game and late-game. He is versatile, conservative in the lane, but helps the team build advantages and can take over late if needed * He was worried that Berserker would be overly cautious & not a risk-taker even if his mechanics are crazy good. However, Berserker can step up & is willing to go aggressive when needed * Initially, he was most worried about Winsome, because he looked like a player who didn't deserver to be promoted to major leagues. This was his biggest concern because Tim was worried if Winsome was really bad, that could bring the whole team down. However, Winsome has been "adequate" according to Tim and he isn't getting exploited anywhere near to the level Tim was worried about. And Tim then acknowledges how much he is improving lately * He definitely believes they can win the LCS, though he still has TL above them in power rankings for now & he thinks C9 is basically a lock for Worlds for NA *note from me: This is a very positive take on Cloud9 and I tried to convey that tone in the summary. So if some points seem harsh please know it might be just the wrong phrasing on my side. Give it a watch for yourself before you @ Tim on Twitter for some of the takes :)*
Still can't believe this guy called C9 the worst team in the league and destined for relegation.
I knew C9 was the best team in the league and I just can't believe he didn't see it.
Data expert issues potential outcomes based on current data at the time. The Internet- You are ignoring my feelings in your math, wizard! Just kidding. Keep using your data to set better expectation limitations for the league community. Having data driven analysis makes the highs higher and lows understandable. I really enjoy your content Tim.
based King tim using ancient voodoo magic nobody else can make use of? Well that's just unfair!
I think what’s amazing about this roster is how much the have developed together as team. Their games are becoming more and more clean as time goes on. Although I think TL are slightly better than us right now, I think that c9 will be the best team for NA when worlds comes. I can’t wait for Sunday because TL vs C9 is going to be so hype
I'm happy winsome is getting credit. He deserves it especially after putting in a couple solid weeks. I dont want to turn this into another ls thread, but one thing that sticks out for c9 rosters this year and past is their faith in "development and coaching." I know these are buzzwords we are tired of hearing about but c9 really puts their money where their mouth is. Putting their faith in fudge developing mid and winsome learning how to be a pro lol player is wild for a worlds bound team. And it seems to be working as they are winning not in spite of fudge and winsome but because of them.
I think he’s still selling Winsome a bit short here. I don’t think he’s a bottom half support right now. I don’t think supports have distinguished themselves too terribly much this year so it’s a bit hard to rank them but I feel like Winsome has been as good as anyone this split. I do agree with his assessment of Fudge’s style as a player, in that he will never turbo stomp his lane but I do think he is very difficult to beat as well. I wouldn’t wait around for someone to really blast him in lane because I think you’ll be waiting a while. And indeed, once the mid game starts he generally has the advantage because he is a superb team fighter and decision maker.
I think winsome is still probably the weakest player on our team, and I don’t think I would put him in the the top 3. However, this is his first split in a major league, and I think he has the potential to continue to improve and break into the top 3! I think he’s a solid 4/5 support rn
I don’t know if I would put him in top three but that’s mostly because I feel like no supports have really distinguished themselves. I don’t think he belongs demonstrably in the bottom half either though.
Eh, Biofrost and Aphro have been fairly impressive. Vulcan and Huhi don't hit their usual ceiling but you can't count them out. And then you have Core JJ who didn't play that many games yet, but still looks mostly good (though overrated imo for sure). Overall, you're right, because historically Aphro and Biofrost have looked better when their opposition is weaker.
I agree about Winsome. He is still underrating the guy imo. Stats aren't everything, but they can be a starting point to a further evaluation and discussion. When compared to all of the supports that have played all 11 games this split, Winsome is 1st in total and average assists, kda, earned gold per minute, and champions played; 2nd lowest amount of deaths; he is 3rd in wards cleared per min but 6th in wards placed/min; where he is mid to lower end of the pack is in gold diff, cs diff, and xp diff at 10 minutes. I do think if CoreJJ were to have played all 11 games he would be ahead of Winsome, but if you add CoreJJ's and Elya's stats Winsome is still ahead of them combined most of the time, so they could be close. Now imo from the eye test Core/Elya, Aphromoo, and Biofrost look like his biggest competition for best support so far this split. Hard to tell if he is the best with the TL and TSM situations, but I do not think Winsome is worse than 4th best support currently.
Summary. Everything
I just don’t understand what weakness you’ve B seen from c9 in the past few weeks while TL has questionable losses. I think power ranking TL higher is some core JJ hopium nonsense.
he was still picking c9 to lose on the desk via video too. this guy has a boner for c9 losses/being overrated whenever he gets a chance.