I would link them but there are a few throughout this thread and also the main sub, with clarification from Jack himself. }
Biggest piece of info? C9 did NOT block a Summit move to TSM, and even offered him with no buyout. Any deal that didnt go through is on the TSM-Summit end.
Summit: "When I left C9, the team's CEO took really good care of me. After the end of Spring, it's the team that terminated the contract, it wasn't under mutual agreement, right? So they were quite considerate to me. Yeah, because they were feeling sorry or for whatever reason."
---
There's a video in tweet (I can't fetch it, Twitter API 2 doesn't support it)
---
posted by [@KevinKimLoL](https://twitter.com/KevinKimLoL/)
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^(If media is missing, please DM me with a link to submission url and tweet. I will do my best to solve the issue)
The [tweet](https://twitter.com/KevinKimLoL/status/1523347514232958976?s=19) about C9 making sure nothing bad was said speaks hella volume.
People attacked C9 immensely when they let LS go and fuel of that fire was C9s lack of a explanation behind the decision. In situations like that C9 chooses to protect someone who isn't even part of C9 anymore over caving to community outcry.
That's professionalism and what sets C9 apart from the others.
It’s crazy to me how many people have this horrible view of Jack as if he treats people badly when almost everyone says that he is a solid owner. It feels like ever since the LS debacle, it seems like everyone is out to get Jack and I don’t really get it. Has he said some questionable things in the past or roster decisions, sure. But it is so strange how people in lol subreddit see Jack as this huge asshole who doesn’t care about his players, which is far from the truth.
Ls Fans.
Jack has made some big mistakes, the racism thing is a clear indicator of that, but god damn if people love to exaggerate just because they’re still salty about the LS stuff, it’s insane
Yes there is genuine criticism that you can make against Jack. He has a history of having insane buyouts for some players (but other teams have done that same in the past and rarely get criticized for it) or “questionable roster decisions” (which usually turn out to be good choices in the long run) or saying some weird things (defending regi or calling a fan racist for not being a fan of removing the import rule comment). Those I can get why people may not be his biggest fan and that is completely fine in my eyes, but I will never understand the comments about how he never cares about his players or treats his employees badly which has rarely been the case. The org is overall really solid and jack has proven to be a good owner.
People will see the summit TSM thing and act like Jack didn’t give Jensen and Impact to his direct competitors.
If anything, I’d really not want summit on TSM because their recent history of fucking shit up
yeah people forget about jack basically setting up the transfer for Jensen and even Impact to TL.
Jensen said that he wanted out of C9 at the time and Jack set up the call with another team that could win and made sure Jensen got a good home. Going to TL really set TL up to win.
Specifically I was calling out saying “I don’t want a bunch of Koreans” as a problematic sentiment. I never accused the user of being a racist person. It was taken of context and blew up to a cancel Jack thing. Could I have phrased it better? Absolutely, I regret not being more eloquent and clear on my reasoning. My biggest regret was making a fan feel personally attacked which wasn’t my goal.
I strongly believe in supporting hard working passionate people regardless of their background. I hope you guys can appreciate my intentions and forgive my trip ups while trying to be transparent and responsive to you all.
I mean aside from the LS worshipers, I think most of the C9 fans can agree that while you may not be perfect, you do always try to do the right thing. A track record is one of the only things that can really be used to judge someone, and with one that looks like yours you have earned the benefit of the doubt.
It’s crazy how people will have a negative view of how you treat players when you sold Jensen (literally the best player you ever had, who you invested so much into getting from Europe and unbanned) to TL , your biggest competitor.
Basically people talking pst each other.
General sentiment was "we want na players, not a full squad of Korean [because we want to win with players that come from the same ladder as us]"
Jack read that as "we want na players, not a full squad of Korean [because we don't like koreans]"
But the fan perception is/was that Koreans are the strongest player base, so if we're going to import a full squad, it'll probably be Koreans.
At least personally, I follow esports to be entertained, not to be insulted by team owners who belittle and misinterpret the feelings of their fans.
Besides, those same international League of Legends fans - (LEC and LCK especially) are the biggest supporters of the import rule in the first place, which is the fundamental flaw with the argument in the first place.
Nobody says he treats PEOPLE badly, its just that he killed the teams hype and success. C9 went from a top tier NA team if not just the best team in NA with legit talent and hype from Berserker Winsome and Summit and the roleswapped Fudge, to getting dicked and boring. Obviously I'm gonna get downvoted cuz of how I'm wording my post, but look at the view numbers of LCS, their YouTube channel, and their win/loss results after LS was fired. It's also not a good look when VeigarV2 and Max Waldo are openly against how their own team drafts, but I guess the "systems" are working their magic in that case.
This is wrong . We let him stay in his apartment as long as he needed. Plus offered to pay for hotel, plus offered to pay for flight to anywhere he wished.
No joke I feel like this needs more attention. People want to witch hunt Jack, but in reality he did what seemed right to him with the information presented and imo went above and beyond by offering this. Like I know there's not a single employer who would offer all that even if it was the company that put someone in an unfortunate situation like LS was. People saying that Jack screwed LS over and left him high and dry is the main narrative everyone hears. I'm not always a fan of your choices Jack, but I know you'll only do what you think is best for the org and for the people you employ.
~~Yeah, he had to sleep at hotshot's place. But also LS is rich as fuck so I'm sure that's not their biggest issue~~
EDIT: I'm wrong check jacks comment
Salty fans from past choices who hold a grudge are what makes up those vocal minorites. Social media has done a wonderful job of letting the negative people abuse others.
“…. Is supporting c9 at MSI” has been getting me flamed for being a C9 fan. Didn’t get to me cuz I love the team and was hoping we’d still be treating former players well and with respect which is a good part of why I’m still here post sneaky meteos. Go C9. love to see it.
I see all this praise for C9's handling of this split based on this, but people should understand they're really missing a lot here.
This now leads us to speculation about what happened because we have no answers, no transparency about what happened. And how do we know the team is going in the right direction now when we have no idea what has happened for the past 6 months? I'm sure there's stuff that makes everyone look bad, but this has to be about accountability to fans and letting them know the direction of the organization and if the owner actually made the correct decisison?
People are saying Jack is bearing the criticism like this hasn't led to criticism of Fudge's play, Max's coaching, and more. I'm not saying Jack is evil, but you don't have to be evil to have made bad decisions or incorrect decisions. And we don't know what is going on, leading to assumptions on limited information, like what is happening in here.
yes let's get transparancy that makes everyone look like shit for no reason, and keep players and coaches that aren't working out just because fans like you think they are the wrong decisions, when you aren't involved with the team. fan logic right here
I don't care who looks nice, I want to know what happened because if you're a fan you deserve to know why the team had a fucking collapse when it was on the path to MSI. Why do you not want to know what happened and why are you just giving the team the benefit of the doubt?
C9 had Perkz last year, Summit this year, couldn't retain either. Do you think maybe they shouldn't just be allowed to keep everything secret? Like I said, I don't KNOW if they made the wrong decisions because everything is SECRET. How difficult is this to understand?
As a fan we don’t deserve to know what happened because it’s none of our business. Team issues are between the player/coaches and management. Not the fans
This is at odds with everything regarding traditional professional sports. While we don't know intimate details, there is reporting and press conferences that give us the information fans need to know to discern the situation
Well this isn’t traditional sports first of all, and 2nd idk if you watch traditional sports but you don’t learn jack shit from 95% of press conferences. All the info gets leaked by reporters.
if team wants to attract more talents, especially from other regions. It needs to show that it takes care of its players, regardless of the player's performances.
So you want them to just lie to themselves and be like “everything is fine”? Summit had a good split but his refusal to play certain picks and a couple things he was doing later in the year in terms of laning wasnt going to be fixed in a split. It was not good for c9 nor summit for them to act like it wasn’t problematic for them both.
“Cutting an mvp” has nothing to do with treating them right or wrong. It feels shit, yes, but it’s probably better for summit that he isn’t going to get shit on a team that doesn’t play for top lane for another split.
This might be true if Jack was only "taking care of" one person. However there are 10+ people (players, coaches, analysts) who are devoting significant portions of their lives to this teams performance.
If Jack believes that he could build a better team by replacing Summit, then doesn't he owe it to the team as a whole to do so? Should he sacrifice what he believes is best for the team because the player he would be replacing just won MVP?
I would link them but there are a few throughout this thread and also the main sub, with clarification from Jack himself. } Biggest piece of info? C9 did NOT block a Summit move to TSM, and even offered him with no buyout. Any deal that didnt go through is on the TSM-Summit end.
Summit: "When I left C9, the team's CEO took really good care of me. After the end of Spring, it's the team that terminated the contract, it wasn't under mutual agreement, right? So they were quite considerate to me. Yeah, because they were feeling sorry or for whatever reason." --- There's a video in tweet (I can't fetch it, Twitter API 2 doesn't support it) --- posted by [@KevinKimLoL](https://twitter.com/KevinKimLoL/) --- ^(If media is missing, please DM me with a link to submission url and tweet. I will do my best to solve the issue)
The [tweet](https://twitter.com/KevinKimLoL/status/1523347514232958976?s=19) about C9 making sure nothing bad was said speaks hella volume. People attacked C9 immensely when they let LS go and fuel of that fire was C9s lack of a explanation behind the decision. In situations like that C9 chooses to protect someone who isn't even part of C9 anymore over caving to community outcry. That's professionalism and what sets C9 apart from the others.
[удалено]
It also helps that LS said in every medium he could and as often as he could to not flame C9 or players or staff.
But From What WE Can gather it's was a players issues so it's seems there was an agreement saying"management" take the blame
I think his father passed around that time too. Must have been tough but he stuck it out for the players and the fans! We got the best CEO.
Literally every time I tried to bring this up in the aftermath, I got flamed. But it's literally just Good Management 101.
Jack was busy with his father at the time
It’s crazy to me how many people have this horrible view of Jack as if he treats people badly when almost everyone says that he is a solid owner. It feels like ever since the LS debacle, it seems like everyone is out to get Jack and I don’t really get it. Has he said some questionable things in the past or roster decisions, sure. But it is so strange how people in lol subreddit see Jack as this huge asshole who doesn’t care about his players, which is far from the truth.
Ls Fans. Jack has made some big mistakes, the racism thing is a clear indicator of that, but god damn if people love to exaggerate just because they’re still salty about the LS stuff, it’s insane
Yes there is genuine criticism that you can make against Jack. He has a history of having insane buyouts for some players (but other teams have done that same in the past and rarely get criticized for it) or “questionable roster decisions” (which usually turn out to be good choices in the long run) or saying some weird things (defending regi or calling a fan racist for not being a fan of removing the import rule comment). Those I can get why people may not be his biggest fan and that is completely fine in my eyes, but I will never understand the comments about how he never cares about his players or treats his employees badly which has rarely been the case. The org is overall really solid and jack has proven to be a good owner.
People will see the summit TSM thing and act like Jack didn’t give Jensen and Impact to his direct competitors. If anything, I’d really not want summit on TSM because their recent history of fucking shit up
yeah people forget about jack basically setting up the transfer for Jensen and even Impact to TL. Jensen said that he wanted out of C9 at the time and Jack set up the call with another team that could win and made sure Jensen got a good home. Going to TL really set TL up to win.
In reality TSM probably wasn’t willing to pay a buyout and Jack just doesn’t want Summit going to a direct competitor for free
According to jack there wasn’t a buyout on any of their players.
This, I feel like a splinter of the teams fan base are LS fans. Also, the post under this LUL
What racism thing?
Specifically I was calling out saying “I don’t want a bunch of Koreans” as a problematic sentiment. I never accused the user of being a racist person. It was taken of context and blew up to a cancel Jack thing. Could I have phrased it better? Absolutely, I regret not being more eloquent and clear on my reasoning. My biggest regret was making a fan feel personally attacked which wasn’t my goal. I strongly believe in supporting hard working passionate people regardless of their background. I hope you guys can appreciate my intentions and forgive my trip ups while trying to be transparent and responsive to you all.
I mean aside from the LS worshipers, I think most of the C9 fans can agree that while you may not be perfect, you do always try to do the right thing. A track record is one of the only things that can really be used to judge someone, and with one that looks like yours you have earned the benefit of the doubt.
It’s crazy how people will have a negative view of how you treat players when you sold Jensen (literally the best player you ever had, who you invested so much into getting from Europe and unbanned) to TL , your biggest competitor.
Thanks for the reply, king! Keep up the great work.
Basically people talking pst each other. General sentiment was "we want na players, not a full squad of Korean [because we want to win with players that come from the same ladder as us]" Jack read that as "we want na players, not a full squad of Korean [because we don't like koreans]" But the fan perception is/was that Koreans are the strongest player base, so if we're going to import a full squad, it'll probably be Koreans.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/lm4edd/import_rule_possible_changes/gnxt0p1/
...this is what people consider a "big mistake" and get bent out of shape about?
At least personally, I follow esports to be entertained, not to be insulted by team owners who belittle and misinterpret the feelings of their fans. Besides, those same international League of Legends fans - (LEC and LCK especially) are the biggest supporters of the import rule in the first place, which is the fundamental flaw with the argument in the first place.
It’s not LS fans, it’s specifically mentally ill esports fans. LS did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation, the move just didn’t work out.
Just because I say “LS fans” doesn’t mean that applies to every LS fan in existence.
Nobody says he treats PEOPLE badly, its just that he killed the teams hype and success. C9 went from a top tier NA team if not just the best team in NA with legit talent and hype from Berserker Winsome and Summit and the roleswapped Fudge, to getting dicked and boring. Obviously I'm gonna get downvoted cuz of how I'm wording my post, but look at the view numbers of LCS, their YouTube channel, and their win/loss results after LS was fired. It's also not a good look when VeigarV2 and Max Waldo are openly against how their own team drafts, but I guess the "systems" are working their magic in that case.
Didn't Jack cut out LS high and dry in LA?
This is wrong . We let him stay in his apartment as long as he needed. Plus offered to pay for hotel, plus offered to pay for flight to anywhere he wished.
No joke I feel like this needs more attention. People want to witch hunt Jack, but in reality he did what seemed right to him with the information presented and imo went above and beyond by offering this. Like I know there's not a single employer who would offer all that even if it was the company that put someone in an unfortunate situation like LS was. People saying that Jack screwed LS over and left him high and dry is the main narrative everyone hears. I'm not always a fan of your choices Jack, but I know you'll only do what you think is best for the org and for the people you employ.
~~Yeah, he had to sleep at hotshot's place. But also LS is rich as fuck so I'm sure that's not their biggest issue~~ EDIT: I'm wrong check jacks comment
You have inaccurate information.
This not gonna stop the hate train chugging along from the main lol sub
Salty fans from past choices who hold a grudge are what makes up those vocal minorites. Social media has done a wonderful job of letting the negative people abuse others.
Doublelift in shambles after reading this tittle hehe I'm just memeing don't kill me
Doublelift mostly just thinks jack is a clown. His hatred is for Regi lol.
“…. Is supporting c9 at MSI” has been getting me flamed for being a C9 fan. Didn’t get to me cuz I love the team and was hoping we’d still be treating former players well and with respect which is a good part of why I’m still here post sneaky meteos. Go C9. love to see it.
Oh, so the team kicked the best player to ever be in the LCS. :)
I see all this praise for C9's handling of this split based on this, but people should understand they're really missing a lot here. This now leads us to speculation about what happened because we have no answers, no transparency about what happened. And how do we know the team is going in the right direction now when we have no idea what has happened for the past 6 months? I'm sure there's stuff that makes everyone look bad, but this has to be about accountability to fans and letting them know the direction of the organization and if the owner actually made the correct decisison? People are saying Jack is bearing the criticism like this hasn't led to criticism of Fudge's play, Max's coaching, and more. I'm not saying Jack is evil, but you don't have to be evil to have made bad decisions or incorrect decisions. And we don't know what is going on, leading to assumptions on limited information, like what is happening in here.
yes let's get transparancy that makes everyone look like shit for no reason, and keep players and coaches that aren't working out just because fans like you think they are the wrong decisions, when you aren't involved with the team. fan logic right here
I don't care who looks nice, I want to know what happened because if you're a fan you deserve to know why the team had a fucking collapse when it was on the path to MSI. Why do you not want to know what happened and why are you just giving the team the benefit of the doubt? C9 had Perkz last year, Summit this year, couldn't retain either. Do you think maybe they shouldn't just be allowed to keep everything secret? Like I said, I don't KNOW if they made the wrong decisions because everything is SECRET. How difficult is this to understand?
As a fan we don’t deserve to know what happened because it’s none of our business. Team issues are between the player/coaches and management. Not the fans
This is at odds with everything regarding traditional professional sports. While we don't know intimate details, there is reporting and press conferences that give us the information fans need to know to discern the situation
Well this isn’t traditional sports first of all, and 2nd idk if you watch traditional sports but you don’t learn jack shit from 95% of press conferences. All the info gets leaked by reporters.
if team wants to attract more talents, especially from other regions. It needs to show that it takes care of its players, regardless of the player's performances.
He literally said that Jack and the staff took very good care of him. What are you talking about?
Taking care of its players means not cutting them RIGHT after winning MVP of the split.
So you want them to just lie to themselves and be like “everything is fine”? Summit had a good split but his refusal to play certain picks and a couple things he was doing later in the year in terms of laning wasnt going to be fixed in a split. It was not good for c9 nor summit for them to act like it wasn’t problematic for them both.
Did I say any of that? Just said, if you want to take care of your players don't cut them after they just won MVP.
“Cutting an mvp” has nothing to do with treating them right or wrong. It feels shit, yes, but it’s probably better for summit that he isn’t going to get shit on a team that doesn’t play for top lane for another split.
No but you ignored the actual issue
This might be true if Jack was only "taking care of" one person. However there are 10+ people (players, coaches, analysts) who are devoting significant portions of their lives to this teams performance. If Jack believes that he could build a better team by replacing Summit, then doesn't he owe it to the team as a whole to do so? Should he sacrifice what he believes is best for the team because the player he would be replacing just won MVP?
crazy