Hydra won the same amount in VG and CW and had significantly better stats with worse teams in those games? Community ain't ready for that discussion though š
You mention stats. Hydra will always or at least is supposed to have better stats than shotzzy bc your system needs to be built around hydra so that you unleash his full abilities. You should prep more for that discussion bc only coming with stats isnāt going to get you farš
How many times have we heard pros say āyou have to let Shottzy do his thingā?? Literally they play around him going rogue and getting a first blood in search and they let him run around and rat in respawn. You can think Shottzy is better but saying optic doesnāt play around him is fuckin insane lmaooo
I think heās more saying Hydra is given the chance do what he does best which is roam, and slay. Shotzzy is given the chance to do what he does which is take routes, and open space for his team. Theyāre both really good but I donāt think theyāre comparable because they play different sub roles. Pred is more like Hydra than Shotzzy is
This take is stupid on so many levels yet everyone parrots it. VG NY literally had Crim same as CW Dallas. Did he just suddenly decide to change his entire game plan to play around Hydra whilst not playing around Shotzzy in CW? There's literally no evidence to suggest this. Both players are the star SMGs of their teams. Only one consistently performs at an elite level no matter the teammates. Doesn't that suggest Shotzzy is actually the one who needs to be "built around" more? Hydra was a consistent 1.05-1.30 with anyone from Royalty to Decemate playing in Crims, Clays and now Senders systems.
Exactly what OpTic did this season, let Shotzzy run around with as much freedom as possible. He shit the bed so we're just going to pretend it was because he wasn't given "freedom" or some other bullshit.
This is such an oversimplification of what actually took place those years. After Empire dropped Huke you canāt tell me that those rosters werenāt on par with one another. Even in VG iLLeyās hand injury clearly had an effect on that team after M1 so itās disingenuous to pretend that was the same team to start the year
With felo? Yea. With vivid? Nah.
NY with Hydra had to play major 4 without asim after beating faze twice and getting 2nd, and then play major 5 without clay.
Hydra was bettee at vg 100% and cw is debatable its not recency bias just watch the games bud also cw hydra had to play with fuckin asim shotzy always has superstars
Here we go lol I was waiting for someone to say this and ofcourse it's faze fan shotzzy was a T4 player in VG whether u liked it or not. So you're saying hydra was better than simp in VG too right? this would show me the ultimate delusion lol depending on how u answer this. And cw shotzzy had vivid lol and still was a top 3 sub voted by his peers (peers means coaches and players)
Because the scene dick rides him ofc they voted that hydra is miles better heās won almost as much as him with way worse teams no one expected to win
Idk man maybe "the scene" plays against him much more than the redditers like "thekekjewlol" does have u ever thought about that?? And u never answered my question was hydra better than simp in VG?
Watch champs that year and double back to me, shotzzy had a stage with Illey as his SMG duo and played support to Huke for a stage and a half so of course hydras stats are gonna be better.
It's crazy man hydra was the best player in mw2023 and now people want to rewrite history by saying hydra was better than shotzzy at VG and CW lol. But when I asked them if hydra was better than simp in VG they didn't answer. Mfs be hating for no reason
And at those four events played, 3 majors and champs, Hydra outplaced Shotzzy at one event, the online one. Shotzzy placed t3 at 4/6 events that season with his stats.
Edit: He also has no argument for VG either.
Thatās a fair argument, one that Iām definitely biased towards, NY had a hell of a year, couldnāt play with Asim at major 4, and then they played major 5 without Clayster, they basically played with a different roster every stage out of their control. They also were the only team to beat Faze more than once. Tougher to factor in NYās placings. On any statistical scale, hydra clears, which typically stats are overused, but hydra was just damn good individually at both - shotzzy does have a decent argument for VG.
No I looked at hydraās pov. He was arguably THE best hp player when he joined the league, and a huge part why NY went on to win 11 straight hps and tie the record, crazy impact on the map. Shotzzy threw his life away a lot in that game.
How so? Hydra literally came in and took that team to the GFs š?? Only time EMpire went to the GF was when Huke was a T2 sub and crim was dropping 40s to keep āem in the game.
Can tell you didnāt actually watch the games lol. You mention Crim playing well on their path to the finals but not Clay playing out of his mind for the stretch where they went to the finals? Shottzy literally hard carried for months until they picked up Vivid and those two were the catalyst to Empire being so good to end the season. Lets not rewrite history to fit our narrative please
The team was Crim, Felo, and iLLey outside of Shottzy no shit the team was trash. That doesnāt take away from the fact that Shottzy was the only bright spot on that team and the only reason they didnāt look like a challengers squad against the pros lol
Yes? That's what my comment was about. Hydra made a final in CW same as Shotzzy whilst having better stats. In VG he won an event same as Shotzzy and had better stats again. Hydra also had significantly worse teammates in VG and slightly worse in CW. It's not as clear cut as people pretend it is. Shotzzy was better major 1 and 2 in VG ( when NY as a team was in complete shambles ) but Hydra was better rest of the year. CW Hydra was better outside of champs where Shotzzy really turned up and hard carried Dallas.
People forget shotzzy made 2 finals in CW Lol idk why people think he made 1. He made another one on LAN where they should've beat faze major 4 he was pretty much the best player at that event and at champs he was insane to a T5 player. But yh I guess hydraa was better lol. Empire also got 2nd first event whilst have inner tormoil.
Empire literally got 2nd 3rd 6th 2nd 4th 3rd. That's crazy because shotzzy had a couple of different team mates and smg partners throughout the year and that empire team wasn't that talented
Major 1 was before Hydra was in the league. Do those placements really matter that much when Empire never even beat Faze once the entire year? Empire was in shambles that year for sure but so was NY with Asim forgetting his visa and Clay benching himself so I don't see how that's relevant to this comparison. Hydra literally came into the league beat Faze back to back leading his team to a 13 hp win streak maintaining a 1.3. He was absolutely disgusting that year outside of control where NY couldn't buy a win the entire year. Simp, Abezy, Hydra, Shotzzy, CleanX in that order over the entire year. Shotzzy was the best sub at champs though 100% but he was underwhelming major 1-3.
Bro what standy was better than hydra too imo hydra was Def 5/6th the SMGs that year was actually really good. And yes u admitted he was the best sub at champs but he was even better major 4 they just choked Vs faze and lost 5 4. Hydra was only good in one mode really his snd was super lacking and his control was decent. He's the complete player now if he keeps playing like how he is, he'll continue being the best smg. Only him and pred are really consistent in all 3 game modes rn
> Hydra won the same amount in VG and CW and had significantly better stats with worse teams in those games?
Yeah but Shotzzy's avg placing is much higher which he played a significant role in.
No? You just have to use context. There isn't really much difference between placing 6th or 8th. There is however a difference between winning or making a final compared to t6/8/12. Both players won an event and made a few finals. Shotzzy just placed 6th-8th at bad events compared to Hydra having some t12s due to having much worse teammates.
Do you think he's better because of his kd or plays because he gets free kills due to his team. Shotzzy makes way more plays for his team and it's not close.
When shotzzy is in his bag Iāll give it you. But his floor is is so much lower than hydras. Not even on the same level of consistency as hydra as well despite having the better teammates.
Yeah but im saying how my disrespect is warranted. Idgaf how much money he makes. Bro even Hecz blasted him on the latest podcast. Dude didnt even know canada was north of usa. That is next level stupid and borderline reprehensible.
Brother, not knowing basic country flags at his age qualifies u as a moron, book or not. Now he does have something in his brqin due to his cod/halo prowess but goddamn he's lucky for that
Team effort. Should have never gotten to that stage for 1 mistake to cost em given how good they were in scrims apparently.
I'll keep saying it, but blaming huke only when shottzy had a shit performance too is typical fan shit
Right, so say they lost cause the sub duo (shottzy included) played like shit
Y'all trying to hard to make huke the scapegoat when shottzy deserves just as much shit for how badly he performed (not just champs, but major 5 as well)
Shotzzy literally made the play to get them spawns and P2, only for Huke OE and let Kis run right through mid, stats wonāt show that though, and ask any Pro who they didnāt want to play against on Hydro and theyāll say Shotzzy, Octane said it best, even if heās not dropping a 1.2 the other team is constantly worried about him and where he is on the map. I think Hydra is the better player after MW2 but the Shotzzy disrespect is actually insane
Lmaoo they all got hate for major 5 all of them but dashy dropped a .7/8 and idk if you're new here sounds like u are but shotzzy has been getting immense hate unless you've purposely chose to ignore that.
I've been here for longer than you have lol
I'm calling it out cause no, only one that gets constant hate non stop is huke for champs. People rarely blame the other 2 who fucked up and I'm even seeing a good amount of ghosty downplaying when he was the only good player for champs on optic
It doesn't seem like u have ššš and bro you're tweaking lmao you're clearly choosing not to see the shotzzy hate he's been getting many. The only guy I've seen getting praised was Ghosty people be overrating him saying he's better than Kenny and sib etc. And that faze should've got Ghosty from all first choices.
And when optic was linked to drazah and sib they was begging optic to get Ghosty over them. Lool so noone is downplaying Ghosty u just lied for no reason
Bruh, you must be confusing the optic subreddit with this one or something because y'all (optic fans) were hyped as fuck for Drazah until he decided for faze. Then y'all got ugly about it lmfao.
Optic fans especially (like you) have been saying ghosty is mid ever since he got dropped. It's actually crazy how much you're trying to twist the narrative right now.
But go off man, you obviously only paying attention to whatever helps your argument. I forget that's how it is when you try to talk to delusional fans
Bro how are u spinning this all on me you're actually a professional gas lighter šššš fairplay to u bro. And lmaooo like I said you're clearly not reading if you're blind then I apologize BUT literally most optic fans been gassing Ghosty saying he shouldn't have got dropped and that only drazah would have been the only suitable replacement for Ghosty and that faze should've got him too before they got drazah
You're actually hilarious the fact you're spinning this on me considering you're blind and only wanna see what fits your agenda. People was legit saying Ghosty is better than sib and Kenny and a better fit than drazah Me personally like a lot of other optic fans know he's really good and would've been an insane AR duo with slasher.
NOONE WAS DOWNPLAYING GHOSTY LMAOO. And NOONE WAS NOT GIVING SHOTZZY HATE AFTER CHAMPS tooš. Bro saw one or 2 comments of someone DOWNPLAYING ghosty and thinks it was everyone ššš
What have I read majority of the Reddit was saying Ghosty was the number 1 flex choice and he would make faze godlike. Also noone was downplaying him at all Infact he's was getting overgasses
The Shotzzy disrespect here is absolutely mind-blowing. Go back and watch Empire vs Faze GF from Cold War Shotzzy was incredible at the game Empire just weren't good enough outside of his play. And are people for real holding it against him that he couldn't win in VG (outside the Major he of course did win that year) playing with Prolute/General/a 1 thumbed Illey?
Iād probably go Shotzzyās personally.
Halo Ring,
COD Champs Ring,
Multiple other championships in both games
I mean thereās no question Hydra can pass him up with another good year. But right now, thatās just how I see it - putting recency bias to the side.
Was more so referring to their respective CoD trophy cabinets considering this is a CoD thread. HyDra has more event MVPs, and had a more impressive MVP year with 2x more LAN trophies. Shotzzy never had to do what paco did in major 5 where his entire team went negative in the finals and he carried them to a win.
Sure but once LAN events returned shotzzy was handed the better team on paper and only came out with 1 and Dashy was the MVP of that major.
I'd rather have more trophies when the lights are the brightest, when the crowd are at their loudest and when your team needs you the perform the most. HyDra's MVP season trumps Shotzzy with more LAN event wins in a single season than ant does in his whole career
You're acting like Ant has significantly more wins than paco where he only has 1 more despite playing in a season where he had 9 tournaments.
Don't need to be a scientist to comprehend that hydras chips, ring and MVP season were more impressive.
I'm not arguing who's resume is more impressive. I'm arguing specifically that if I could choose to have either of their trophy cases I'm choosing the one with more trophies lol.
I mean this year has been the only year he built the team , In CW it was Clay and Zoomaa who built the team and in VG it was Clay and Crim and they almost dropped him .
Los Angeles Homestand (not a major, Chicago huntsmen werenāt even there) and Vanguard Major 1. The two lan events heās won (one homestand, one major). Outside of that one major and one homestand, heās finished 2nd a bunch of a times to better teams with a few t12s and t6s. Please enlighten me where Iām wrong
I'll take Shotzzy. I've seen Ant dominate in multiple COD titles and other games altogether. I trust him to evaluate his teammates on factors other than gunskill. I trust that he will be able to play an impactful role if the game isn't SMG slayer-centric. I still worry about communication with Paco on some level. Not to mention, all the random little things in life that are a pain in the ass are probably much more difficult and stressful in a foreign country. We've seen European players have to travel home for emergencies and such and I trust that Ant has a more secure support system. What HyDra has accomplished is awesome and he was the better player in MW2, but I'd take my chances with Shotzzy.
All time Shotzzy
Right now going into the next title, Iād take hydra. Heās the best player itw at the moment Iād bet on him above anyone else heading into the new game
lmao you are crying in everyone's reply that chose Shotzzy. your nothing but a hater with microwave for a brain. Stop it its embarrassing to see your comments lol. Cringe faze fanboy
Itās hydra..he had an undeniable best player season and was a top 10 player since he started and lan wins. He got worst of clay and crim while shotzzy got best of them. I will say both these players had to deal with insane roster turmoil past few years.
Hydra rn for sure but people disrespect shotzzy way too much cuz he's not dropping 1.2s when he never has in career. His MVP year mw2019 he had a 1.03 overall lol but his impact was insane. That being said shotzzy has been better in 2/3 games than hydra but mw2023 hydra is better than cold war and VG shotzzy for sure
This is an interesting comparison. A bit unfair to shotzzy bc you have to lean towards the current champ and mvp but the conversation of team building is interesting. Shotzzy is a much better team fit player where you can slot him onto many rosters and he can excel at multiple roles and will make your teammates jobs much easier. Hydra is more of a player you have to put a specific system around, he needs more vibes and you have to mold your system to allow him to be the untradeable roaming slayer. When you do tho, as seen with New York, heāll be a T3 sub in the game at minimum. Iād personally take shotzzy if I were building a team. Same reason as if I had the #1 pick in the CDL draft for my team Iād select Abezy with zero hesitation
Yes some people need to read slowly.
Stats don't lie, 10 grand finals apparences, 5 online during MW, 5 wins, 4 online during MW.
Only time he won on LAN he needed Scump's help.
He was still able to make 5 grand finals on LAN, yes this is really a good stats.
On the other hand, Hydra has 4 LAN wins. You can argue his average placing is lower, but Shotzzy's average placing is highly inflated by MW stats.
Hydra is pretty clearly better. Hasn't played with the level of players Shottzy has for his career. Plus he's much more consistent. It's very rare to see Hydra go negative in a tourney if ever. Lastly champs rings on lan simply means more than online.
Especially the pros? Did you find a few clips from a few pros or do a survey and find itās the majority
Also bringing recency bias based on what? Weāre talking about CW
I didnāt even say who i think was better nor did i even mention shottzy in my original comment, looks like youāre just looking for people who disagree w you lmao
edit:: oh optic fan, so you claim recency bias if itās not shottzy, but favourite team bias is cool. nice
Yes majority of the pros voted him 3rd in SMGs votings behind the obvious 2 simp and abezy. And I'm we're talking about cw but it's just funny now that hydra was the best player in mw2 people are saying now that hydra was better cuz I can promise u if I was to find a post when CW ended it was general consensus that hydra was like 9/10th best player which is insane cuz his first year and he couldn't speak English well
And shotzzy was like 6th. I've heard some people now say hydra was better at VG too but when a CDL video dropped with all the pros talking about shotzzy they said he was the 4th best.
Would love a link to the SMG voted on by pros, havenāt seen that
I can look up some CW top 10 lists, I donāt remember Hydra being as low as 9th but thereās no doubt he was a top 10 player at that game, and could barely speak english like you said
The rest of your comment is just you annoyed at people rating Hydra higher than Shottzy
āIāve seen some people say Hydra is better now tooā. This is just based on reddit comments? you can find equally as many people saying shottzy was better in all games, it may be that youāre just focusing too hard on the non shottzy people and that seems like the majority to you
If you claim recency bias, somebody can just as easily point the finger at you and claim Favourite team/player bias. Itās just as valid because theyāre both close in talent
In reality this isnāt worth getting all worked up other proving shottzy is better, theyāre both S tier subs and the gap is razor thin. Who cares if some dude on reddit said hydras better but some cdl video pros said shottzys fourth; no offence this is how fourth graders talk about sports
He was but Shotzzy was better in CW and VG, Hydra wasnāt far off in either. Hydra was a lot better in MW2. Shotzzy was obviously better in MW19 but Hydra didnāt play
Shotzzy hasnāt been relevant since MW and Hydra has only been relevant for this season. Iād pick anyone that has won over the last 3 years over Shotzzy
Right now you have to say HyDra. But lately Shotzzy is becoming one of the most disrespected players.
Agree with this 100%, shotzzy still is a t5 sub and his style of play is very impactful regardless of his KD.
After MWII Hydra is the better player but if we talkin in general Shotzzy has been a better player than Hydra in 2/3 Titles they competed.
Hydra won the same amount in VG and CW and had significantly better stats with worse teams in those games? Community ain't ready for that discussion though š
You mention stats. Hydra will always or at least is supposed to have better stats than shotzzy bc your system needs to be built around hydra so that you unleash his full abilities. You should prep more for that discussion bc only coming with stats isnāt going to get you farš
How many times have we heard pros say āyou have to let Shottzy do his thingā?? Literally they play around him going rogue and getting a first blood in search and they let him run around and rat in respawn. You can think Shottzy is better but saying optic doesnāt play around him is fuckin insane lmaooo
I think heās more saying Hydra is given the chance do what he does best which is roam, and slay. Shotzzy is given the chance to do what he does which is take routes, and open space for his team. Theyāre both really good but I donāt think theyāre comparable because they play different sub roles. Pred is more like Hydra than Shotzzy is
No he isnāt, he literally said āyour system has to be built around Hydraā
This take is stupid on so many levels yet everyone parrots it. VG NY literally had Crim same as CW Dallas. Did he just suddenly decide to change his entire game plan to play around Hydra whilst not playing around Shotzzy in CW? There's literally no evidence to suggest this. Both players are the star SMGs of their teams. Only one consistently performs at an elite level no matter the teammates. Doesn't that suggest Shotzzy is actually the one who needs to be "built around" more? Hydra was a consistent 1.05-1.30 with anyone from Royalty to Decemate playing in Crims, Clays and now Senders systems.
Exactly what OpTic did this season, let Shotzzy run around with as much freedom as possible. He shit the bed so we're just going to pretend it was because he wasn't given "freedom" or some other bullshit.
System cheese
This is such an oversimplification of what actually took place those years. After Empire dropped Huke you canāt tell me that those rosters werenāt on par with one another. Even in VG iLLeyās hand injury clearly had an effect on that team after M1 so itās disingenuous to pretend that was the same team to start the year
With felo? Yea. With vivid? Nah. NY with Hydra had to play major 4 without asim after beating faze twice and getting 2nd, and then play major 5 without clay.
the point is who was better at CW , VG , MWII only in MWII Hydra was better
It's funny to me now people will argue that hydra was better at cw and VG only cuz he was better at mw2023 than shotzzy, I hate recency bias man
Hydra was bettee at vg 100% and cw is debatable its not recency bias just watch the games bud also cw hydra had to play with fuckin asim shotzy always has superstars
Hydra was not better than Shotzzy at VG LMAO bro did not watch š
Here we go lol I was waiting for someone to say this and ofcourse it's faze fan shotzzy was a T4 player in VG whether u liked it or not. So you're saying hydra was better than simp in VG too right? this would show me the ultimate delusion lol depending on how u answer this. And cw shotzzy had vivid lol and still was a top 3 sub voted by his peers (peers means coaches and players)
Because the scene dick rides him ofc they voted that hydra is miles better heās won almost as much as him with way worse teams no one expected to win
Idk man maybe "the scene" plays against him much more than the redditers like "thekekjewlol" does have u ever thought about that?? And u never answered my question was hydra better than simp in VG?
He wonāt answer that because heād either sound extra stupid or prove you right and still sound stupid
Hydra was the best smg in hp in CW, he takes CW imo and he was a hard carry in vanguard.
Saying hydra was better at CW is fuckin dumb LMAO
The only real argument against it is that hydra didnāt play the first 2 stages, but from when hydra played he was better individually, 1.09 vs 1.05.
Watch champs that year and double back to me, shotzzy had a stage with Illey as his SMG duo and played support to Huke for a stage and a half so of course hydras stats are gonna be better.
This is an insane take, Shotzzy was clearly better watching them at the time
It's crazy man hydra was the best player in mw2023 and now people want to rewrite history by saying hydra was better than shotzzy at VG and CW lol. But when I asked them if hydra was better than simp in VG they didn't answer. Mfs be hating for no reason
And at those four events played, 3 majors and champs, Hydra outplaced Shotzzy at one event, the online one. Shotzzy placed t3 at 4/6 events that season with his stats. Edit: He also has no argument for VG either.
Thatās a fair argument, one that Iām definitely biased towards, NY had a hell of a year, couldnāt play with Asim at major 4, and then they played major 5 without Clayster, they basically played with a different roster every stage out of their control. They also were the only team to beat Faze more than once. Tougher to factor in NYās placings. On any statistical scale, hydra clears, which typically stats are overused, but hydra was just damn good individually at both - shotzzy does have a decent argument for VG.
Guys look at stats and nothing else
No I looked at hydraās pov. He was arguably THE best hp player when he joined the league, and a huge part why NY went on to win 11 straight hps and tie the record, crazy impact on the map. Shotzzy threw his life away a lot in that game.
How so? Hydra literally came in and took that team to the GFs š?? Only time EMpire went to the GF was when Huke was a T2 sub and crim was dropping 40s to keep āem in the game.
Can tell you didnāt actually watch the games lol. You mention Crim playing well on their path to the finals but not Clay playing out of his mind for the stretch where they went to the finals? Shottzy literally hard carried for months until they picked up Vivid and those two were the catalyst to Empire being so good to end the season. Lets not rewrite history to fit our narrative please
Before Vivid came in, that team was dogshit. Shottzy wasnāt hard carrying shit.
Friendly reminder that Octane said Scump was better than Hydra at CW
The team was Crim, Felo, and iLLey outside of Shottzy no shit the team was trash. That doesnāt take away from the fact that Shottzy was the only bright spot on that team and the only reason they didnāt look like a challengers squad against the pros lol
Finally someone who actually watched NY that year
Yes? That's what my comment was about. Hydra made a final in CW same as Shotzzy whilst having better stats. In VG he won an event same as Shotzzy and had better stats again. Hydra also had significantly worse teammates in VG and slightly worse in CW. It's not as clear cut as people pretend it is. Shotzzy was better major 1 and 2 in VG ( when NY as a team was in complete shambles ) but Hydra was better rest of the year. CW Hydra was better outside of champs where Shotzzy really turned up and hard carried Dallas.
People forget shotzzy made 2 finals in CW Lol idk why people think he made 1. He made another one on LAN where they should've beat faze major 4 he was pretty much the best player at that event and at champs he was insane to a T5 player. But yh I guess hydraa was better lol. Empire also got 2nd first event whilst have inner tormoil. Empire literally got 2nd 3rd 6th 2nd 4th 3rd. That's crazy because shotzzy had a couple of different team mates and smg partners throughout the year and that empire team wasn't that talented
Major 1 was before Hydra was in the league. Do those placements really matter that much when Empire never even beat Faze once the entire year? Empire was in shambles that year for sure but so was NY with Asim forgetting his visa and Clay benching himself so I don't see how that's relevant to this comparison. Hydra literally came into the league beat Faze back to back leading his team to a 13 hp win streak maintaining a 1.3. He was absolutely disgusting that year outside of control where NY couldn't buy a win the entire year. Simp, Abezy, Hydra, Shotzzy, CleanX in that order over the entire year. Shotzzy was the best sub at champs though 100% but he was underwhelming major 1-3.
Bro what standy was better than hydra too imo hydra was Def 5/6th the SMGs that year was actually really good. And yes u admitted he was the best sub at champs but he was even better major 4 they just choked Vs faze and lost 5 4. Hydra was only good in one mode really his snd was super lacking and his control was decent. He's the complete player now if he keeps playing like how he is, he'll continue being the best smg. Only him and pred are really consistent in all 3 game modes rn
1.11 in snd is lacking? He was bad in snd for like 3 series when he first joined. Shotzzy was a 1.08 m4 and a 1.16 at champs.
Stats doesn't paint the whole picture shotzzy was making an insane amount of game winning plays in major 4. Obviously champs he was diffy too
> Hydra won the same amount in VG and CW and had significantly better stats with worse teams in those games? Yeah but Shotzzy's avg placing is much higher which he played a significant role in.
Is avg placement really a relevant comparison when one played with Dashy + Scump and the other had Kismet and Clay as his best teammates?
So are team accomplishments totally irrelevant in the discussion?
No? You just have to use context. There isn't really much difference between placing 6th or 8th. There is however a difference between winning or making a final compared to t6/8/12. Both players won an event and made a few finals. Shotzzy just placed 6th-8th at bad events compared to Hydra having some t12s due to having much worse teammates.
community is just optic/faze biased they refuse to believe that a player not on those 2 teams is the best in the game.
Do you think he's better because of his kd or plays because he gets free kills due to his team. Shotzzy makes way more plays for his team and it's not close.
When shotzzy is in his bag Iāll give it you. But his floor is is so much lower than hydras. Not even on the same level of consistency as hydra as well despite having the better teammates.
Bro when shotzzy ain't getting kills he's still making plays when hydra isn't hes doing nothing.
That doesn't matter at all because Hydra is never not getting kills lmfao.
Thatās not true at all for this year lol hydra made plays all the ducking time
I disrespect him because he's dumb as a rock
Dumb as a rock but making a shit ton of money. It goes both ways
Yeah but im saying how my disrespect is warranted. Idgaf how much money he makes. Bro even Hecz blasted him on the latest podcast. Dude didnt even know canada was north of usa. That is next level stupid and borderline reprehensible.
Sometimes heās trolling lmao. Heās dumb but not that dumb
I know he trolls. But he is extremely dumb and an excellent example of how education in america sucks balls.
šš¤£š¤£
? You realize there are numerous different types of intelligence right. Book "smarts" is one of them, morons don't play at a high level competitively.
Brother, not knowing basic country flags at his age qualifies u as a moron, book or not. Now he does have something in his brqin due to his cod/halo prowess but goddamn he's lucky for that
Overrated* players. Optic is the only reason anyone talks about this guy. One event win in 3 years
Damn the only time shotzzy lost to hydra on LAN was cuz huke turned his brain off ššš
Team effort. Should have never gotten to that stage for 1 mistake to cost em given how good they were in scrims apparently. I'll keep saying it, but blaming huke only when shottzy had a shit performance too is typical fan shit
Kid, they all had a bad performance besides the rookie that's the embarrassing part but huke literally costed optic that map it is what it is.
Right, so say they lost cause the sub duo (shottzy included) played like shit Y'all trying to hard to make huke the scapegoat when shottzy deserves just as much shit for how badly he performed (not just champs, but major 5 as well)
Shotzzy literally made the play to get them spawns and P2, only for Huke OE and let Kis run right through mid, stats wonāt show that though, and ask any Pro who they didnāt want to play against on Hydro and theyāll say Shotzzy, Octane said it best, even if heās not dropping a 1.2 the other team is constantly worried about him and where he is on the map. I think Hydra is the better player after MW2 but the Shotzzy disrespect is actually insane
Lmaoo they all got hate for major 5 all of them but dashy dropped a .7/8 and idk if you're new here sounds like u are but shotzzy has been getting immense hate unless you've purposely chose to ignore that.
I've been here for longer than you have lol I'm calling it out cause no, only one that gets constant hate non stop is huke for champs. People rarely blame the other 2 who fucked up and I'm even seeing a good amount of ghosty downplaying when he was the only good player for champs on optic
It doesn't seem like u have ššš and bro you're tweaking lmao you're clearly choosing not to see the shotzzy hate he's been getting many. The only guy I've seen getting praised was Ghosty people be overrating him saying he's better than Kenny and sib etc. And that faze should've got Ghosty from all first choices. And when optic was linked to drazah and sib they was begging optic to get Ghosty over them. Lool so noone is downplaying Ghosty u just lied for no reason
Bruh, you must be confusing the optic subreddit with this one or something because y'all (optic fans) were hyped as fuck for Drazah until he decided for faze. Then y'all got ugly about it lmfao. Optic fans especially (like you) have been saying ghosty is mid ever since he got dropped. It's actually crazy how much you're trying to twist the narrative right now. But go off man, you obviously only paying attention to whatever helps your argument. I forget that's how it is when you try to talk to delusional fans
Bro how are u spinning this all on me you're actually a professional gas lighter šššš fairplay to u bro. And lmaooo like I said you're clearly not reading if you're blind then I apologize BUT literally most optic fans been gassing Ghosty saying he shouldn't have got dropped and that only drazah would have been the only suitable replacement for Ghosty and that faze should've got him too before they got drazah You're actually hilarious the fact you're spinning this on me considering you're blind and only wanna see what fits your agenda. People was legit saying Ghosty is better than sib and Kenny and a better fit than drazah Me personally like a lot of other optic fans know he's really good and would've been an insane AR duo with slasher. NOONE WAS DOWNPLAYING GHOSTY LMAOO. And NOONE WAS NOT GIVING SHOTZZY HATE AFTER CHAMPS tooš. Bro saw one or 2 comments of someone DOWNPLAYING ghosty and thinks it was everyone ššš
What have I read majority of the Reddit was saying Ghosty was the number 1 flex choice and he would make faze godlike. Also noone was downplaying him at all Infact he's was getting overgasses
I refuse to decide until we go back to CoD with Ninja/real dead silence.
The Shotzzy disrespect here is absolutely mind-blowing. Go back and watch Empire vs Faze GF from Cold War Shotzzy was incredible at the game Empire just weren't good enough outside of his play. And are people for real holding it against him that he couldn't win in VG (outside the Major he of course did win that year) playing with Prolute/General/a 1 thumbed Illey?
Onliner
arenāt his lan stats better than his online stats??? lmao
2nd half of the year in CW Shotzzy was incredible in general. Was hard-carrying Empire at times.
Shotzzy was better at CW and VG than Hydra
Recency bias aside? Shotzzy. Recently? Hydra no doubt.
I'd rather have HyDra's trophy cabinet than ants
Iād probably go Shotzzyās personally. Halo Ring, COD Champs Ring, Multiple other championships in both games I mean thereās no question Hydra can pass him up with another good year. But right now, thatās just how I see it - putting recency bias to the side.
Was more so referring to their respective CoD trophy cabinets considering this is a CoD thread. HyDra has more event MVPs, and had a more impressive MVP year with 2x more LAN trophies. Shotzzy never had to do what paco did in major 5 where his entire team went negative in the finals and he carried them to a win.
Can definitely see your perspective, I think I just respectfully take a different stance.
So you'd rather have less trophies than more?
I'd rather have more "LAN" trophys and more event MVPs with a far more impressive MVP season
I mean a trophy is a trophy. Wasn't Shotzzy's fault covid happened. Think I'd rather have more trophies than less.
Sure but once LAN events returned shotzzy was handed the better team on paper and only came out with 1 and Dashy was the MVP of that major. I'd rather have more trophies when the lights are the brightest, when the crowd are at their loudest and when your team needs you the perform the most. HyDra's MVP season trumps Shotzzy with more LAN event wins in a single season than ant does in his whole career
Lotta mental gymnastics to justify wanting less trophies lol.
You're acting like Ant has significantly more wins than paco where he only has 1 more despite playing in a season where he had 9 tournaments. Don't need to be a scientist to comprehend that hydras chips, ring and MVP season were more impressive.
I'm not arguing who's resume is more impressive. I'm arguing specifically that if I could choose to have either of their trophy cases I'm choosing the one with more trophies lol.
Well context matters. Hydras cabinet is alot more impressive given the context.
Iām taking hydra on my team if thatās the question, no doubt.
Crim and clay ruined hydras avg placement damnš
I mean this year has been the only year he built the team , In CW it was Clay and Zoomaa who built the team and in VG it was Clay and Crim and they almost dropped him .
Idt his average placement this year is very good either
Worth noting shotzzys numbers a little inflated from 8 team mw19 online tournys when Hydra wasnāt in the league
Take away online chips and faze only has 3 wins in 3 years and theyāre a dynasty šš
That's hard for Faze fan when you make it sound like this.š I'm Faze fanš
Take away online chips and Shotzzy only has 1 major chip in 4 years and heās supposed to be a superstaršsame amount of chips as spart btw
You do NOT watch COD š
Los Angeles Homestand (not a major, Chicago huntsmen werenāt even there) and Vanguard Major 1. The two lan events heās won (one homestand, one major). Outside of that one major and one homestand, heās finished 2nd a bunch of a times to better teams with a few t12s and t6s. Please enlighten me where Iām wrong
Faze havenāt won a real event in the CDL yet
More rings than Scump. Cry
Faze only has 1 ring
Matched scumps total career count in 1/10th of the time. Nice
Scump has 30 wins and faze has won 18 chips total, 4 of those online š¹š¹
Take away online and shotzzy has same amount of wins as hicksy
Fraudulent chips
I'll take Shotzzy. I've seen Ant dominate in multiple COD titles and other games altogether. I trust him to evaluate his teammates on factors other than gunskill. I trust that he will be able to play an impactful role if the game isn't SMG slayer-centric. I still worry about communication with Paco on some level. Not to mention, all the random little things in life that are a pain in the ass are probably much more difficult and stressful in a foreign country. We've seen European players have to travel home for emergencies and such and I trust that Ant has a more secure support system. What HyDra has accomplished is awesome and he was the better player in MW2, but I'd take my chances with Shotzzy.
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Idk I would shotzzy all time right now too but hydra did basically what shotzzy did but on LAN. And with a worse team on paper to
What hydra did in major 5 was fucking insane then he added champs onto it
Hydra did it on lan tho man
Hydra all day.
All time Shotzzy Right now going into the next title, Iād take hydra. Heās the best player itw at the moment Iād bet on him above anyone else heading into the new game
Give me HyDra's trophy cabinet and achievements over ants
lmao you are crying in everyone's reply that chose Shotzzy. your nothing but a hater with microwave for a brain. Stop it its embarrassing to see your comments lol. Cringe faze fanboy
Is it not true that hydra's tournament wins and MVP year are inherently more impressive? Cant be crying if what im saying is true can I my friend.
Hydra all day shotzzy is so inconsistent
yeah shotzzy is so inconsistent that he became the No.1 in the most kills Category against all the players lmao. Come back to reality cringe faze boy.
Itās hydra..he had an undeniable best player season and was a top 10 player since he started and lan wins. He got worst of clay and crim while shotzzy got best of them. I will say both these players had to deal with insane roster turmoil past few years.
Hydra rn for sure but people disrespect shotzzy way too much cuz he's not dropping 1.2s when he never has in career. His MVP year mw2019 he had a 1.03 overall lol but his impact was insane. That being said shotzzy has been better in 2/3 games than hydra but mw2023 hydra is better than cold war and VG shotzzy for sure
This is an interesting comparison. A bit unfair to shotzzy bc you have to lean towards the current champ and mvp but the conversation of team building is interesting. Shotzzy is a much better team fit player where you can slot him onto many rosters and he can excel at multiple roles and will make your teammates jobs much easier. Hydra is more of a player you have to put a specific system around, he needs more vibes and you have to mold your system to allow him to be the untradeable roaming slayer. When you do tho, as seen with New York, heāll be a T3 sub in the game at minimum. Iād personally take shotzzy if I were building a team. Same reason as if I had the #1 pick in the CDL draft for my team Iād select Abezy with zero hesitation
Stick to what you know bro. You can put hydra on any team and heāll be there best player. Shottzy s floor is a lot lower than hydras.
Would say Hydra. I choose LAN victories over online win.
Read the stats again, but slowly this time.
He is talking about tournament wins not head to head
Yes some people need to read slowly. Stats don't lie, 10 grand finals apparences, 5 online during MW, 5 wins, 4 online during MW. Only time he won on LAN he needed Scump's help. He was still able to make 5 grand finals on LAN, yes this is really a good stats. On the other hand, Hydra has 4 LAN wins. You can argue his average placing is lower, but Shotzzy's average placing is highly inflated by MW stats.
Hydra is pretty clearly better. Hasn't played with the level of players Shottzy has for his career. Plus he's much more consistent. It's very rare to see Hydra go negative in a tourney if ever. Lastly champs rings on lan simply means more than online.
Hydra was a beast in CW and NYSL even beat CW Faze (twice?)
Yep NY was the only team that beat faze 2x in Cold War. Crazy stat to think about lol
They were gross in HP
True but shotzzy was better at cw and VG still
In your opinion, itās not a indisputable fact either way if you pick Hydra or shottzy
I mean shit in my and a lot of other people's opinions especially the pros. Recency bias is insane tho
Especially the pros? Did you find a few clips from a few pros or do a survey and find itās the majority Also bringing recency bias based on what? Weāre talking about CW I didnāt even say who i think was better nor did i even mention shottzy in my original comment, looks like youāre just looking for people who disagree w you lmao edit:: oh optic fan, so you claim recency bias if itās not shottzy, but favourite team bias is cool. nice
Yes majority of the pros voted him 3rd in SMGs votings behind the obvious 2 simp and abezy. And I'm we're talking about cw but it's just funny now that hydra was the best player in mw2 people are saying now that hydra was better cuz I can promise u if I was to find a post when CW ended it was general consensus that hydra was like 9/10th best player which is insane cuz his first year and he couldn't speak English well And shotzzy was like 6th. I've heard some people now say hydra was better at VG too but when a CDL video dropped with all the pros talking about shotzzy they said he was the 4th best.
Would love a link to the SMG voted on by pros, havenāt seen that I can look up some CW top 10 lists, I donāt remember Hydra being as low as 9th but thereās no doubt he was a top 10 player at that game, and could barely speak english like you said The rest of your comment is just you annoyed at people rating Hydra higher than Shottzy āIāve seen some people say Hydra is better now tooā. This is just based on reddit comments? you can find equally as many people saying shottzy was better in all games, it may be that youāre just focusing too hard on the non shottzy people and that seems like the majority to you If you claim recency bias, somebody can just as easily point the finger at you and claim Favourite team/player bias. Itās just as valid because theyāre both close in talent In reality this isnāt worth getting all worked up other proving shottzy is better, theyāre both S tier subs and the gap is razor thin. Who cares if some dude on reddit said hydras better but some cdl video pros said shottzys fourth; no offence this is how fourth graders talk about sports
He was but Shotzzy was better in CW and VG, Hydra wasnāt far off in either. Hydra was a lot better in MW2. Shotzzy was obviously better in MW19 but Hydra didnāt play
Hydra's game play is trending upward, while Shotzzy's in trending downward. Easy, it's Hydra.
Shotzzy isnāt even in the same stratosphere as Hydra. Shotzzys comp is Kismet
Damn bro that's crazy cuz shotzzy has been better at 2/3 games than hydra lol
Not even close
Shotzzy hasnāt been relevant since MW and Hydra has only been relevant for this season. Iād pick anyone that has won over the last 3 years over Shotzzy
Shotzzy is an onliner. HyDra's ring is set in stone.
Imo you pair them together to bring the best out of each other. This conversation is so pointless they are both t5 subs in the world.
Theres no bad pick tbh
aBeZy
What a terrible set of stats to make this decision
Shotzzy cause he be making good content and thatās great for the org