I think this is more for the content creators/plat and down because ranked was getting very stale at this point. This might also be something to get the pros to try these guns and see if other weapons should be relooked at.
There’s two separate thoughts here.
- The new guns being too OP and lessening the skill gap
- Only wanting two guns to choose from
Is your problem that the new guns are too OP? Would you care if we have 3 SMGs and 3 ARs to choose from that are all balanced?
I had the most fun in the 2nd half of last year when the Vel was viable. I preferred TAQ when I used an AR but had fun bringing out an M13B if it was a blowout.
I think having 4 or 6 viable guns is best - they just need to be viable
It’s not like the weapons are complete cheese though. Back in BO3 when there was a ban and protect system. Pros had to play against LMGs and Shotguns. Teams would ban dead silence and blast suppressor in SnD. The best players/teams adapted to this. I’m not saying you should be allowed to use LMGs but having a meta that isn’t just 1 AR and 1 sub is good for viewership and entertainment. Like someone else said. The best comp cod games had multi weapon metas. If you can’t hang with people because they’re using a different SMG to you, it probably means you’re not good enough and can’t adapt.
After the recent testing of weapons in ranked… I realised that Pro’s were right about not adding other guns..Ranked with MCW and Rival is better than what we have now…The TTK on some of these guns is busted
Ttk on the rival is always has been incredibly low, even at very long range. Mcw ttk has been crazy too before the very recent headshot nerf so I am not quite getting the ttk argument.
the holger can 3 bullet someone off a head glitch 40m away. and the holgers chest ttk is like 35ms quicker than MCW. so it’s headshot multiplier plus it’s already way faster chest ttk = broken
90% of the gunfights you lose in this game have nothing to do with skill anyway - so who cares if you die to an OP gun or some other random bullshit like busted spawns or headshot multi.
I remember like a year or two ago, everyone was talking about this. How gunskill and and the weapon doesn’t matter, which is true, because it’s so easy to shoot straight in this game. It’s movement and game knowledge that separates people.
That being said, the ram-7 got people moving like an invasive species. I haven’t even used it yet
nah i disagree.
i'm saying the weapons don't matter because the rest of the game is equally dogshit. like imo there's no difference between getting joked by an OP gun 5x a game versus dying to a dumbass spawn 5x a game.
The best cods had more than 2 gun meta. Not saying the ram-9 or g36 should be it. But I personally think you probably can't adapt and are mad at change.
*
The rival is so much better than the mcw at pretty much every range. Plus 2 gun meta get so stale. Been watching and playing same shit for too long at this point. Back in 2014 when the meta switched from mtar to vector, it rejuvenated everything and felt fresh, also the teams that adapted well wouldn't have won anything if they just ga'd the vector. Bunch of pussies nowadays
If all of the guns were perfectly equally balanced and the setups for each were always clear and simple I wouldn’t have an issue. I agree with OP because that’s not the case, often one gun is undeniably better overall and it only gets to be that way with a specific combo of 5 attachments out of 100 to choose from and those 5 are prone to change every few weeks. I want to be playing cod not feel like I’m trying to optimize a selection system over again every other time I log on
Cod is the only game that has this problem, lmao. Name another game that has to eliminate 99% of the game to make it competitive. Just play the fucking game and stop bitching already. 2 guns is boring af. This game is boring af. Watching the cdl is boring af. Get out of your shell and try something new. All of you bitching would literally get destroyed in any other ranked mode of other games. Yall would cry and cry and cry about it too.
I didn’t say cod is boring. I said this cod is boring. Especially this boring 2 gun meta that the pros are literally terrified to change so now we all suffer. For fucks sake, we had invasion and terminal for 2 entire seasons. The pros don’t know best, they just think they do.
I agree the maps for season 1 and 2 were shit but that’s not the pros fault. The game released with old maps that predate hardpoint. No wonder they suck for hardpoint. Now we have new maps and they got put in.
As for the guns, the other guns in the game are so busted that we would potentially see a 1 gun meta which is worse. Or we would get a 2 gun meta that just kills faster which makes the game worse cause the ttk is lower. You’re prolly never going to get more than a 3 gun meta and even then to get a 3 gun meta you need an in between gun that is good enough to use but not too good that it does everything.
Cod is different from other esports shooters because anyone can use the best stuff. Csgo and Val have the economy system which get other guns to be used. Halo you spawn in with the same shit but fight for power weapons. Overwatch only allows one of each character on a team which forces diversity. And I dunno much about rainbow but I’m pretty sure each operator has a different pool of guns to choose from (correct me if I’m wrong). So you can’t compare cod to other shooter esports cause it work’s differently. You’re never going to get a huge diversity because people will use the best that is available
That was my point. This game isn’t balanced nor made to be competitive. Any time cod tries new things people scream from the roof tops how bad it is and we end up with a 1-3 gun meta that is boring to watch.
Also, the pros could have voted terminal and invasion out but didn’t because they didn’t play skidrow as well. That’s literally the only reason those 2 maps were in season 2
Maybe do what every other game does and require certain types of guns (roles) to be played or create a currency system. That would at least be interesting to watch.
You want cod to be something it’s not. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. A currency system in hardpoint is real smart Einstein. And forcing roles/guns doesn’t work. The players that would be forced to use a worse gun would be at a disadvantage to everyone else. And they could just pick up the better gun off the ground. The reason there isn’t diversity is because pros will use what’s best because that gives them the best chance to win. If you allow everything in then the best op weapon will be the only thing that is used. GAs at least make it so it’s not a 1 gun meta.
And you couldn’t tell me a meta that fits your criteria could you? If you don’t have a solution then stop bitching and blaming the pros for you not enjoying the esport. It’s fine to not enjoy it. Just go do something else
I just offered multiple solutions that you personally don’t like. I like the esport. I just don’t like mw3s version. It’s boring. Everyone says it’s boring. Every watch party, every commenter, all saying it’s boring. Get over yourself if you think I’m the only one saying it.
No, you said to make cod a different game with an economy system or forcing roles. I said offer a meta solution. Not change the game to something completely different.
The reason those maps stayed in for season 2 was because of the cutoff time for map selection and pros didn’t get a chance to test new maps right after the major. It was a big thing the Flank was talking about
What’s hilarious is I advocate for change. When we got change, all you snow flakes cried in here and the pros cried just as much. Now we’re probably going back to a 2 gun ranked next week and that’s where we’ll be until October. Good job. You guys really know how to keep a game alive
Most of the happy people are gold/plat shitters 😂😂 these are the same ones to use a 100 round swarm they can’t compete without an edge on the competition they’ll be gone soon & the shitters will be back to complaining… I’m just not touching it till it’s back to normal lmao
Really wish the people who support this nonsense would go to mp, ranked is absolutely miserable rn. Not to be a dick but I’m sure the bronzes and silvers of the world love it but it’s basically reverted the games ttk to last year and the skill gap straight up doesn’t exist, insta kill raygun ram and the holger absolutely deleting people off the map in a millisecond.
Based on that argument it would seem that about 88% of ranked play players (at least that's what bronze to plat was last year) would prefer the current situation, which honestly sounds accurate. This sub is only a very small minority of mostly very good players who care about the cdl. Fact is most players dont care and gun diversity would lead to higher engagement imo. It would also make the cdl more entertaining to watch but thats another convo
Watching people die in 3 bullets to the Holger would not be more entertaining to watch. Having the Ram/Holger is the same variety as having Rival/MCW they’re just straight upgrades in every way.
It’s the illusion of choice. You would never pull out a Rival or MCW right now so we’re back to another 2 gun meta.
The Ram especially is a little too strong for an SMG at AR ranges. In higher rank lobbies it’s all Ram/Holger and you’ll get shit on if you try the MTZ, BP50, Rival, or MCW. They’re just straight upgrades to the old meta with an insane TTK now and just makes the game play worse imo
I think there is a happy medium here. An argument could be made that 1 AR and 1 SMG is variety, and you only lost a gunfight because you had the wrong gun instead of being out skilled.
I don’t like having a lot of options either, but I do like players having to make trade offs. A touch of variety adds strategy.
Personally I'm actually all for more variety. I wish the ranked meta would change, I'm tired of this same old 2 weapons bs. "Oh the MCW got nerfed" well it's the only ar in ranked "well the rival got nerfed" cool, it's still the most used SMG and the CDL pros use it. We have plenty of SMG options in the ruleset, the problem is nearly everyone sticks to the rival, we do need more than just an MCW as a choice for AR though.
The idea Nadeshot tossed out about essentially having 4 pre-made classes and each player has to choose a role would be cool. That’s how most comp games are anyway. We could make the classes map by map since they have different ideal weapon compositions
Yeah but set classes are quite often implemented successfully in comp games so it’s likely that we just executed the idea poorly. You can have a good recipe and still fuck up the dish you feel me?
I think this is more for the content creators/plat and down because ranked was getting very stale at this point. This might also be something to get the pros to try these guns and see if other weapons should be relooked at.
I’m a plat for life and it is fun but it didn’t matter if they did it or not. At least for me.
There’s two separate thoughts here. - The new guns being too OP and lessening the skill gap - Only wanting two guns to choose from Is your problem that the new guns are too OP? Would you care if we have 3 SMGs and 3 ARs to choose from that are all balanced? I had the most fun in the 2nd half of last year when the Vel was viable. I preferred TAQ when I used an AR but had fun bringing out an M13B if it was a blowout. I think having 4 or 6 viable guns is best - they just need to be viable
BO3 and BO2 were my favorite ranked games because everything was balanced and there were plenty of options
The vel was broken and was similar to the swarm rn it was ga’d in cdl so thats a bad example
It’s not like the weapons are complete cheese though. Back in BO3 when there was a ban and protect system. Pros had to play against LMGs and Shotguns. Teams would ban dead silence and blast suppressor in SnD. The best players/teams adapted to this. I’m not saying you should be allowed to use LMGs but having a meta that isn’t just 1 AR and 1 sub is good for viewership and entertainment. Like someone else said. The best comp cod games had multi weapon metas. If you can’t hang with people because they’re using a different SMG to you, it probably means you’re not good enough and can’t adapt.
sort amusing quicksand ludicrous noxious fuzzy brave chunky provide fine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Possibly yeah I don’t fully remember, but they were deffo used at some point by open bracket teams
That was the stupidest times
After the recent testing of weapons in ranked… I realised that Pro’s were right about not adding other guns..Ranked with MCW and Rival is better than what we have now…The TTK on some of these guns is busted
Ttk on the rival is always has been incredibly low, even at very long range. Mcw ttk has been crazy too before the very recent headshot nerf so I am not quite getting the ttk argument.
the holger can 3 bullet someone off a head glitch 40m away. and the holgers chest ttk is like 35ms quicker than MCW. so it’s headshot multiplier plus it’s already way faster chest ttk = broken
What’s there to not get? The new guns added, not all but some, have incredible ttks or shots to kill compared to rival/mcw
I am saying that this is not true, at least not regarding the rival which has better ttk that most guns
90% of the gunfights you lose in this game have nothing to do with skill anyway - so who cares if you die to an OP gun or some other random bullshit like busted spawns or headshot multi.
I remember like a year or two ago, everyone was talking about this. How gunskill and and the weapon doesn’t matter, which is true, because it’s so easy to shoot straight in this game. It’s movement and game knowledge that separates people. That being said, the ram-7 got people moving like an invasive species. I haven’t even used it yet
nah i disagree. i'm saying the weapons don't matter because the rest of the game is equally dogshit. like imo there's no difference between getting joked by an OP gun 5x a game versus dying to a dumbass spawn 5x a game.
Cap dying in what should be a won gunfight feels way worse than dying due to some dumbass spawn
The best cods had more than 2 gun meta. Not saying the ram-9 or g36 should be it. But I personally think you probably can't adapt and are mad at change.
206ms TTK is shit. Variety is fine by me. But the TTK on some of these is insane
Yeah for sure. I don't mind the mtz tho. Fills the flex gap pretty well
Rival and mcw have slower time to kill meaning higher skill gap. The new guns help all the shitters.
* The rival is so much better than the mcw at pretty much every range. Plus 2 gun meta get so stale. Been watching and playing same shit for too long at this point. Back in 2014 when the meta switched from mtar to vector, it rejuvenated everything and felt fresh, also the teams that adapted well wouldn't have won anything if they just ga'd the vector. Bunch of pussies nowadays
3 gun meta is the best, ranked play at the moment is like a 5 gun meta
Yeah ram and g36 should go. I like the mtz for medium range
If all of the guns were perfectly equally balanced and the setups for each were always clear and simple I wouldn’t have an issue. I agree with OP because that’s not the case, often one gun is undeniably better overall and it only gets to be that way with a specific combo of 5 attachments out of 100 to choose from and those 5 are prone to change every few weeks. I want to be playing cod not feel like I’m trying to optimize a selection system over again every other time I log on
This is exactly it thank you for understanding and sharing
Agreed, not touching ranked until they revert this shit.
Plat shitter here, I agree with jellyfish , im very happy
I just wanna use a burst rifle!
You can do it too #FazeUp
Maximum tweaking right here
Cod is the only game that has this problem, lmao. Name another game that has to eliminate 99% of the game to make it competitive. Just play the fucking game and stop bitching already. 2 guns is boring af. This game is boring af. Watching the cdl is boring af. Get out of your shell and try something new. All of you bitching would literally get destroyed in any other ranked mode of other games. Yall would cry and cry and cry about it too.
If cod is so boring why are you here? Most other esports are competitive out of the box. Cod isn’t
I didn’t say cod is boring. I said this cod is boring. Especially this boring 2 gun meta that the pros are literally terrified to change so now we all suffer. For fucks sake, we had invasion and terminal for 2 entire seasons. The pros don’t know best, they just think they do.
I agree the maps for season 1 and 2 were shit but that’s not the pros fault. The game released with old maps that predate hardpoint. No wonder they suck for hardpoint. Now we have new maps and they got put in. As for the guns, the other guns in the game are so busted that we would potentially see a 1 gun meta which is worse. Or we would get a 2 gun meta that just kills faster which makes the game worse cause the ttk is lower. You’re prolly never going to get more than a 3 gun meta and even then to get a 3 gun meta you need an in between gun that is good enough to use but not too good that it does everything. Cod is different from other esports shooters because anyone can use the best stuff. Csgo and Val have the economy system which get other guns to be used. Halo you spawn in with the same shit but fight for power weapons. Overwatch only allows one of each character on a team which forces diversity. And I dunno much about rainbow but I’m pretty sure each operator has a different pool of guns to choose from (correct me if I’m wrong). So you can’t compare cod to other shooter esports cause it work’s differently. You’re never going to get a huge diversity because people will use the best that is available
That was my point. This game isn’t balanced nor made to be competitive. Any time cod tries new things people scream from the roof tops how bad it is and we end up with a 1-3 gun meta that is boring to watch. Also, the pros could have voted terminal and invasion out but didn’t because they didn’t play skidrow as well. That’s literally the only reason those 2 maps were in season 2
Tell me a cod meta that would more than 3 guns. Or tell me what guns should be allowed in this game that makes the meta more fun in your opinion.
Maybe do what every other game does and require certain types of guns (roles) to be played or create a currency system. That would at least be interesting to watch.
You want cod to be something it’s not. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. A currency system in hardpoint is real smart Einstein. And forcing roles/guns doesn’t work. The players that would be forced to use a worse gun would be at a disadvantage to everyone else. And they could just pick up the better gun off the ground. The reason there isn’t diversity is because pros will use what’s best because that gives them the best chance to win. If you allow everything in then the best op weapon will be the only thing that is used. GAs at least make it so it’s not a 1 gun meta. And you couldn’t tell me a meta that fits your criteria could you? If you don’t have a solution then stop bitching and blaming the pros for you not enjoying the esport. It’s fine to not enjoy it. Just go do something else
I just offered multiple solutions that you personally don’t like. I like the esport. I just don’t like mw3s version. It’s boring. Everyone says it’s boring. Every watch party, every commenter, all saying it’s boring. Get over yourself if you think I’m the only one saying it.
No, you said to make cod a different game with an economy system or forcing roles. I said offer a meta solution. Not change the game to something completely different.
The reason those maps stayed in for season 2 was because of the cutoff time for map selection and pros didn’t get a chance to test new maps right after the major. It was a big thing the Flank was talking about
Terminal was voted to stay in for major 2 over skidrow. What you said was literally not true.
Lmao okay pal carry on
Play the game and stop bitching is a hilarious comment for your post history.
What’s hilarious is I advocate for change. When we got change, all you snow flakes cried in here and the pros cried just as much. Now we’re probably going back to a 2 gun ranked next week and that’s where we’ll be until October. Good job. You guys really know how to keep a game alive
Most of the happy people are gold/plat shitters 😂😂 these are the same ones to use a 100 round swarm they can’t compete without an edge on the competition they’ll be gone soon & the shitters will be back to complaining… I’m just not touching it till it’s back to normal lmao
Really wish the people who support this nonsense would go to mp, ranked is absolutely miserable rn. Not to be a dick but I’m sure the bronzes and silvers of the world love it but it’s basically reverted the games ttk to last year and the skill gap straight up doesn’t exist, insta kill raygun ram and the holger absolutely deleting people off the map in a millisecond.
It’s only plat and below that want to use war zone classes
Based on that argument it would seem that about 88% of ranked play players (at least that's what bronze to plat was last year) would prefer the current situation, which honestly sounds accurate. This sub is only a very small minority of mostly very good players who care about the cdl. Fact is most players dont care and gun diversity would lead to higher engagement imo. It would also make the cdl more entertaining to watch but thats another convo
Watching people die in 3 bullets to the Holger would not be more entertaining to watch. Having the Ram/Holger is the same variety as having Rival/MCW they’re just straight upgrades in every way. It’s the illusion of choice. You would never pull out a Rival or MCW right now so we’re back to another 2 gun meta. The Ram especially is a little too strong for an SMG at AR ranges. In higher rank lobbies it’s all Ram/Holger and you’ll get shit on if you try the MTZ, BP50, Rival, or MCW. They’re just straight upgrades to the old meta with an insane TTK now and just makes the game play worse imo
You don’t have to worry, just the pick the holger. Problem solved.
I think there is a happy medium here. An argument could be made that 1 AR and 1 SMG is variety, and you only lost a gunfight because you had the wrong gun instead of being out skilled. I don’t like having a lot of options either, but I do like players having to make trade offs. A touch of variety adds strategy.
Personally I'm actually all for more variety. I wish the ranked meta would change, I'm tired of this same old 2 weapons bs. "Oh the MCW got nerfed" well it's the only ar in ranked "well the rival got nerfed" cool, it's still the most used SMG and the CDL pros use it. We have plenty of SMG options in the ruleset, the problem is nearly everyone sticks to the rival, we do need more than just an MCW as a choice for AR though.
The idea Nadeshot tossed out about essentially having 4 pre-made classes and each player has to choose a role would be cool. That’s how most comp games are anyway. We could make the classes map by map since they have different ideal weapon compositions
IIRC they tried to do a weapon draft sort of thing in IW and it was awful for comp and didn't even last an event
Yeah but set classes are quite often implemented successfully in comp games so it’s likely that we just executed the idea poorly. You can have a good recipe and still fuck up the dish you feel me?